Mini 1186: Repo! The Genetic Mafia - Game Over!

[Thor665]

Hullo everyone.

This is a bookmark post for my own purposes. I'm replacing Fugitive and will be reading up and posting my big honkin' wall of 'You-think-it's-analysis-but-really-it's-all-bad-jokes-innuendo-and-some-fluffy-bits-to-cover-up-voting-someone-whose-face-I-just-don
t-like'

So that will be awesome.
Also, I pretty much just skim anyway, so people should totally tell me who to vote so I can desperately sheep them. Thanks!
Also, you may all worship me as and when you next post, i always appreciate that.

[Thor665]

Okay - read is happening, I'm sick, I'm bitter, let's see what insights I come up with at the opera tonight.

3. PeregrineV - Luigi Largo, Vanilla Townie - lynched D1.
6. Magua - Rotti Largo, Bodyguard - shot N1.
10. Battle Mage - Amber Sweet, Goon - "anatomy" removed N1.

Obvious scum and SK/Vig kills are obvious.

Incognito's opening double vote shenanigans suggest inside track knowledge. I'd vote him.
Hmmm - Camn defends Incognito from the "hate" on him...aka rwo RVS votes. I'd be flipping out on them both right now.
Green Crayons can be town.

Page 2

Medicated Lain is weaksauce - he can go be scum for attacking for nonsense reasons.
Bvoigt also looks weaksauce for sheeping Incognito's weaksauce case.
I'm trying to decide if camn should be obvious town due to her Magua attack. I don't feel confident enough there yet, but let's call it town vibes.


Page 3

Haylen can be scum - her weak follow Incog play while appeasing and yet not directly addressing what she's appeasing just looks terrible.
It takes camn herself to call out Incog on using a meta attack from 3 years ago - weak. Camn and Magua come out looking town, Incog still looks scum to me.

Page 4

Other people are way more upset about this nameclaim thing than I am, I don't even see it as anti-town. (Pine, Incog, Yos) *especially* if camn is town, one of these is scum.
Green Crayons is the first to call the nameclaim thing for what it is.
If Pine is scum Incog is town.
I <3 Magua.

@ Perigrin - what makes the meta case so well presented? Are you actually going to post your reasons for it or just sheep Incog?

Note: Remember to request something later

You ever request that something later and did anything ever come of it?

Page 5

I'm already starting to really skim some of these quote wall battles. *sigh* taking a break (I remember when I once re-read an entire 80+ page game at lylo 'just to be sure' I must have had a lot of free time and patience back in the day.)
I'll be curious to see how Pine does not get lynched and Pere does.

Page 6

Bleh.

Page 7

Haylen's 158 actually looks pretty town - includes slight dig at BM who was sliding under everybody's radar too.
Camn notices that Crayon is town - nice to see.
Everyone's niceness/qualifier mumble hangup with TMW is, unfortunately, probably null with him.
Hating Yos for lurking like a madman.

Wooosh, Page 7 is done, leaving me about 9 pages to finish (really 8 since I've already read page 18 to see Incog's super sad slap fest of a desire to vote me because if *he* was scum he would have replaced out - so....this slot must be scum.

Yeah, because self meta is best used when applied to 3 other players.
Riiiiiight. I'll put that one into my scumbook o' awesome tells any century now.

Probably will be caught up no later than Sunday evening.
Will have a vote then.
Currently would probably be wanting Pine, Incog, or Yos dead - I think they're my top scumpool with Lain sort of hanging on awkwardly to the coattails but not fully immersed yet.
Crayons, Camn, and actually i think Haylen (which appals me) look pretty town right now.
People (and by people I mean Incog) should also explain how scum advance their win con by flaking out of the game - should be good for a laugh, and I'm a funny guy at heart.

[Thor665]

Aw, I love buddying - you can be town now
Who are we lynching today by the by?

[Thor665]

i think Haylen (which appalls me) look pretty town right now.

Why does it appall you?

I fixed our mutual misspell (my fault probably)

It appalls me because, having seen your play as town during this "slump" of yours (sorry - I don't think I ever saw you during a peak) it concerns me I'm getting a town read off of you because either;
1. You're going to be terrible to tke into late game for town.
or
2. The only reason you're actually looking good right now is because you're scum - because you don't play like this as town.

Hence - appalled.
This question served a purpose?

Starting in on the back half of the game now.
Fascinated by the Incog hate a brief comment by me and Pine was able to stir up, we just might run that wagon around a bit and test the wheels.
Camn's interactions with ML on this page make my face look like this what the frell guys? Thanks for nothing.
I will undoubtedly become bored/frustrated with the read and will take a break of a few hours in the middle - hence the post will probably show up sometime in the evening EST.

[Thor665]

@ML - by the way - the gender thing, your avatar looks too much like a boy, and I always go off avatar gender first and look at listed gender only in the case of androgynous avatars. I'll try to work on it, but don't promise much, it's a bad habit I have in a lot of games that I really feel is the fault of guys for taking hot/chibi girl avatars and girls for taking waif like boy avatars.

Page 8

I think we're lynching one of Incognito, Medicated Lain or Yosarian2 today.

Any takers that one of these is scum? This will increase my Incog hate because him dead and scum should help soft clear the other two, which would be awesome as they both suxx0rs.

Post #191 makes me sad Pere got lynched

If Peregrine is scum, i like Bvoigt as his buddy. Hoping to look like a genius if i'm right! haha

Town tell bvoigt? Ugh, frankly all of BM's posts have been a slurry of 'not helpful at all despite knowing alignment' He can;t even stay attacking anyone long enough for me to feel like he actually wants them lynched. By the end of day I'm betting he'll have voted every player in the game.

Post 208 looks pretty clear like townYos to my mind;

You say i misunderstood Incognito's point about Haylen not being voted. How so?

Not really sure I should be answering this question rather then Incog, but:

[snip]

It sounds like what Incog was saying was something like "Haylen always gets run really quickly as town, because of weird play on her part when she's town, but really doesn't gets lynched as scum because she doesn't do that." Silly, but probably has a grain of truth to it. Also I thought this was at least partly joking.

It sounded like you read that as him saying that if she was town the scum would be trying to lynch her, vs. the scum bussing her as scum, but I think that was a misunderstanding. Unless I'm misunderstanding one or both of you myself. (shrug)

If that is a scum/scum conversation it's a little...odd.
Also, BM is pressing a scum case on Haylen/Incog and Yos comes in and defends them and BM presses him on what the defense is. Really crazy conversation if this is scum/scum - hence; town tell for Yos, hu-freakin'-zuh.

Page 10 (I dunno where Page 9 went - it's somewhere in there, erk, and I lost Page 11 too - whatevs. You're in the target zone.)

Peregrine is run up for that bussing comment. BM is on hot and early, Camn follows real early and even hotter and BM hops off to play calming voice of reason while still egging Camn on - town tell for Camn methinks.

PeregrineV (4): Magua, bvoigt, Camn, Incognito
Early Pere wagon (BM was on and off between bvoigt and Camn) I see town, prob tow, prob town, and Incognito. Hrmmmm.

Page 12

Blorp.

Page 13

The incognito votes are terrible. Battle Mage was pretty clearly trying to lynch him for much of day 1, and then when i defended Incognito, battle mage attacked me for THAT, clearly trying to undercut any attempt to defend Incog. No way that that was distancing; if Battle Mage was mafia, then Incognito pretty clearly is not.

Fugitive's incognito vote is especially scummy here, coming right after Incog voted for her. Plus, the person she replaced never said anything game relevant at all.

This is fascinating because I'm actually trucking up the exact same path Fugitive did.
Could you explain the "pretty clearly" trying to get Incog lynched comment? I really don't see a pretty clearly from BM at all throughout Day 1 until Pere. What am I missing here?

Pine defending my slot from a Yps attack...that's interesting. Maybe he's just attacking Yos to drag him down...but that looks like a dramatic town tell to me. Yeah, Pine can be town now, 4 reelz!1!

Page - whatevver the fug, I'm not paying attention anymore and everyone in the game is lurking and flaking anyway.

No clue but after two straight replace out's from that slot, I really think that player slot needs to die. camn should probably be next. I can't see her seriously believing the b.s. she's been posting so far.

You know who needs to die? A flake out slot!
You know who should die next? A slot not playing in any way like I would expect that player to play as town. ...but, y'know, flake out slot first, amirite


That's my read - a few responses and answer thoughts as well as a vote to follow very shortly.

[Thor665]

Also, I don't see the case on Trip. Can someone explain it to me?

PoE would be my answer. Other players are managing to look town and he's...well...he's playing the game.

If she gets any points at all, it's for at least trying to bring this town back to life. .

Finally you begin to understand my strategy!

I'm clearly too dumb to understand your strategy.

How about you do me a solid and explain, point by point, the "dance" with bvoigt and how it makes him town? That would be awesome and a half.

Vote: Incognito

I'm not sure if I'm sheeping others or they are sheeping me and/or Pine. Whateves, I'm part of the heard now and feel safe and warm.

@Yos - time to explain how BM was obv. trying to get Incog lynched, yeah?

I also think this is L-2 since ML unvoted, but I'll admit I'm not 100% certain so this might be L-1...someone should probably quickhammer for lulz.

[Thor665]

@bvoigt - your read on Pine?

[Thor665]

it's silly to think that my only contribution to this game has been meta-cases or what-have-you. If you look through my iso, that's pretty demonstrably untrue. I could see Thor's walls coming from a town-him or a scum-him; no clue why Pine checked him off as town almost immediately.

If it makes you feel any better I'm actually voting you off PoE and gut - but that's pretty much every case I ever make nowadays - I just sometimes try to pretty them up to sell the newbs
Also, you think cam or I are scum - why don't you have thoughts about Pine writing me off as town like he did?
More importantly - considering my case is PoE - what do you think of all the town calls I made?

I also think this is L-2 since ML unvoted, but I'll admit I'm not 100% certain so this might be L-1...someone should probably quickhammer for lulz.

I don't see why that would be lulzy at all.

Well...*I'd* laugh pretty hard - though I am awfully easy to amuse. Plus, if you flipped scum I'd look awesome conf. town which would make me laugh even more.

People (and by people I mean Incog) should also explain how scum advance their win con by flaking out of the game - should be good for a laugh, and I'm a funny guy at heart.

This is a pretty obvious misinterpretation of what I've been saying about your slot this whole Day. What I've said has nothing to do with win cons; that's a pretty silly thing for you to turn it into.

I must have misunderstood all your talk about this slot, and how it should be lynched because players were flaking out of it, which made this slot scum. I am a little dense at times.
Could you restate what your actual case was so then I can mock it properly? I promise to be bemusing and have at least one sexual innuendo in the commentary when I work it over long, hard, and slow <---that one you get for free.

[Thor665]

@Camn - you're solid town clearing a player I have as a moderate clear at best and you're not willing to help me out with it? Whassup wit dat? I'll buy you flowers or sing you a sea chanty or something. I may even let you stroke the loamy softness of my beard - but whatever it takes I'd love to help you help town.

[Thor665]

@Yos - The bulk of your case for Incog = town is 'BM pushed him'
BM also pushed Camn and pushed on Crayons without ever voting for him - have you drawn deep conclusions from those interactions as well?
I'm really not feeling a pro town vibe from Incog - he never really was in any danger of being lynched during BM's push, and I'm calling it obv. distancing - thoughts?


@Incog - you're not willing to state the case on me so that I can show how weak and non-existent it is even though you're attacking me because you claim I don't understand it? Meh.
Also, I'm not on you for PoE via BM's terribad postings, I'm on you for PoE of the wagons Day 1 - try to keep up.

Magua,

bvoigt, camn, Incognito, Yosarian2,

Battle Mage

,

Pine

<-- final lynch.
I think camn and Yos are obv town, so they can be green too.

Magua,

bvoigt,

camn

, Incognito,

Yosarian2

,

Battle Mage

,

Pine

So I also think bvoigt is town, though Camn is a finicky girl and won't explain why he's obv. town - so that means you are an unknown from that wagon - you're claiming only one scum there? Or do you think one of my clears is a bad idea?

On the other side of the equation.

TripMyWire

Green Crayons

Medicated Lain

PeregrineV Thor665, Haylen

We have this - I'm town, Pere was town, Haylen looks fairly obv. town as does Crayon. That leaves ML who I'm slightly leaning town on, and TMW who I'd lynch for lack of looking town, but that's not an uber exciting lynch.

[Thor665]

@Incog - at least explain why the flake slot (Thor) is more scummy than the slot you have a meta read of that she'd never play this way as scum (Camn).

[Thor665]

What about the Camn push - and do you think the Crayon push was similar to the push on you or not?

I don't mind TMW as a compromise victim - but if he's scum, and Incog isn't, either my read on bvoigt is way off, or my read on one of the other players I'm thinking is town is waaaaay off, and I actually think I have some solid towntells this game.

[Thor665]

I didn't understand the fugitive accusation... now that Thor has placed in, I can certainly see some scumminess there, so maybe there was something I was missing.

I won't describe the scumminess, but want it on record that I see the scumminess...you know...for later.

Also, if you think Camn is scummy looking, and think she needs pushing, and think it's odd that Incog isn't pushing her...why do you think Incog is town?

The Camn vote is at least better than the terrible Pine vote from earlier, so for that you earn a smilie face.

Who else foresees TMW compromise vote? Because I'm seeing the writing on the wall for that one, as everyone shuffles around the other wagons and keeps listing him in the scumreads. I'll be fascinated to see if anyone has a town read on the poor little dude.

[Thor665]

The first part is me asking you to explain how I've made my slot scummy - no one else seemed to agree with you so you probably want to get it out in the open before I NK you.

Pine looks pro town - he defended a useless lurker slot from Yos, why do that as scum? For 'town points' off a lurker lynch? Yeah...

Incog looking town because of Yos is duly noted. I'll get back to you again when I want to hear some more parroted cases

[Thor665]

@Thor: I think one of your clears (a.k.a. camn) is a bad idea. I too think Yos is obvtown, and I think bvoigt looks pretty town too. What is it about her play that gives you a pro-town vibe? Have you ever played with her in a past game before?

I think this is my...third game with Camn? Maybe fourth - if Camn recalls more accurately she can certainly weigh in. I'm not virgin to Camn though.

The first part is me asking you to explain how I've made my slot scummy - no one else seemed to agree with you so you probably want to get it out in the open before I NK you.

WOAH! What do ya mean by this?

What do you think I mean? I mean I'm NKing ML for being annoying to me. Duh.

Incognito's opening double vote shenanigans suggest inside track knowledge.

Wasn't a night start. Why would you vote someone whom you thought was a tracker, anyway?

Because scum have inside track knowledge without it being a Night start.

My play gets better, the further into a game I get, it allows me to focus on less people hence why I was replacing into games for a bit. It served a purpose, I wanted to see if you were just sending jibes out instead of actually forming opinions.

And your conclusion after seeing that I was forming opinions and not just jabbing is that I'm not trustworthy?
Good to know there wasn't a town answer, amirite?
Look forward to your Incog review - a quick opinion on TMW would be apropos as well, just so you know.

[Thor665]

Two votes really made you jumpy, didn't it?

[Thor665]

Why would a band leader that appears in the movie for only two seconds be a pro-town power role?

Why would it be a scum fakeclaim/actual name?
Man, and Yos was working hard at selling you as town too.

[Thor665]

Unvote: Incog
Vote: TripMyWire

I'm not sure I'm sold on Incog town, but Yos is selling me enough that I'm fine with this.

[Thor665]

I'm Fugitive.

[Thor665]

Thor: I didn't understand your reads at all. We see opposite on about everything, and that is generally something I've seen in scum trends when I'm town. Now that you've explained that you actually know Camn's play from other games, I find it a little less concerning..

Why? If backwards reads is a scumtell, how does me saying 'played with Camn before' somehow ease off the tell of backwards reads? At the most it might help explain my backward Camn read - but why would it explain the others?

[Thor665]

@bvoigt - who's your second top scum read currently?
Adding in some 'why' would be appreciated but isn't needed.

[Thor665]

I would like to point out, that barring a *brilliant* insight from the Pine wagon, we're going to lynch TMW today or we're going to no lynch. I don't mind being spared some wasted time and pages, someone should probably just speed lynch him. Claims are for wimps.

[Thor665]

@ Thor - I need to say this now because otherwise it's going to be effecting me all game. My latest interactions with you on site have shown me you're being a bit of an arrogant twit. Tone it down, or I swear to the gods I will explode and it wont be pretty. I don't like arrogance, it's my least desirable trait in a person and most likely to make me angry at them.

With all due regard (at least as much as one can ever have after starting a sentence with that phrase) I submit you calling me an 'arrogant twit' is waaay ruder than

anything

I've done this game.
I'll take your thoughts into account.
Please try to do the same.
Also - reads, that would be nice too - I actually agree with Incog on something, ye gawds!

[Thor665]

Well, I won't be a part of it.

So are you planning to come up with something better for Pine?
Because otherwise you are a part of it by doing nothing.

[Thor665]

@Haylen - also, post game, I'd like to know where you think I'm overstepping the lines playwise. Because I can only think of one game I've ever played where I felt I was actyually being an arrogant twit, and in my defense I actually was totally right about everything, i was just rude about it. But other than that I sorta feel your attack is random and unjustified in its level. You're worrying me because if what I consider 'normal' is that offensive to you than one of us should replace out now before we get offended.

[Thor665]

Papa Smurf - it's a title given by committee of eternal debate. If I recall correctly it's supposed to signify;

That I have a beard and comment on it.
That I am wise.
That I replace curse words with 'Smurf' when quoting them.
That I am fatherly and/or participate in a lot of Newbie games so there's some sort of paternal thing towards Newbies implied.

The title started out as 'Manly Beard' I think, than became Nordic, NordIC, MythIC, ad infinitum.

Do you think Incog is actually scummy, or is this a 'I'm not scum, he might be' vote?

[Thor665]

That I am fatherly and/or participate in a lot of Newbie games so there's some sort of paternal thing towards Newbies implied.

After my newbie game with you as IC, I say it fits

Do you think Incog is actually scummy, or is this a 'I'm not scum, he might be' vote?

Scummy. It was between him and Pine.

You're working my 'be kind to Newbs' angle well here, I love being buddied. I know the bulk of the case on you is silly, because I've seen you as town do the same thing, but the PoE is kind of damning, f'r'instance;

Pine is not a smart lynch. There was a point where Yos(?...Incog? I forget) was digging into Fugitive. Pine came out and chainsaw defended/attacked over the call. Since I'm town and since the slot was a useless slot Pine, as scum, would have been cutting off an easy mislynch option for himself *and* raising his attention level from one of the slots that is active and/or considered generally pro town. Doesn't add up as a scumtactic to my mind.

[Thor665]

PoE? I also don't actually know what chainsawing is. These terms, I'd like to know.

Thor: given that you've seen trip in another game as town acting like this, why were you pushing so hard for a trip lynch until now?

Supremely odd.

No more odd than deciding someone's case is potentially scummy while admitting you have no idea what half the terms they're using are.

Chainsaw is here
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... dard_Tells

PoE = Process of Elimination - basically when you remove the other suspects who look likely town, the remaining suspects are more likely to be scum.

Thor: Incog was mainly the one digging into the fugitive case... I certainly believe that scum will choose to create random buddies in town, but beyond buddying, there was no way that Incog was convincing anyone about the fugitive place being scum

Going back and looking though we discover this;
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p3163985
It was Yos he was defending Fugi from, not Incog. I'll agree Incog was digging too. Who, besides Pine, was defending the Fugitive slot?
I'll also note this happened during a tight run of multiple wagons - which included Pine himself, and strengthens my town read on Pine.

***I feel wary of Thor's last few posts.

***Why? You haven't pointed out me saying anything inappropriate nor attached a scum theory to any of my actions.

[Thor665]

Oh, and to answer your bolded question clearly - PoE.

[Thor665]

I stated exactly why I felt wary. As far as I can recall from this game, you never once before that post above had posted anything about knowing Trip's play, you just continued to attack and call lynch on him, based on his play-style which you have witnessed as non-scum behavior from him before.

Here's a comment about TMW from my very first catchup post;

Everyone's niceness/qualifier mumble hangup with TMW is, unfortunately, probably null with him.

Read more. Also, please quote where I say I want to lynch him for his playstyle - I don't believe that exists so you're either making it up maliciously or you're not reading enough - fix that. Also, feel free to tell me the above denies knowledge of his playstyle - I dare you.

Meanwhile it was Trip that brought up that you played another game together, not you. And you responded as if perhaps some one might look that up.

Huh? (and I've shown that I wasn't hiding knowledge of Trip's playstyle already so...)

The fact that Yos was the target and not incog is a little clearing for you, but I don't think it takes pine off the hook as you suggest. With Pine having a wagon against him at that point, he may have been playing extra cautious in just who he was buddying/attacking to try and release some pressure. The over all pattern of Pine seems to be to just barely post anything to stay in, and just throw in a few things every here and there, but no seriously strong stances anywhere.. yet incredibly defensive when personally attacked, as we witnessed with camn.

Maaaaaybe. I'm not sure I buy it. I've seen him as scum twice and he didn't play like that either time, and was much more brash - so it doesn't scream scum game to me.
I'd much rather lynch Incog or TMW today. I'd rather no lynch than lynch Pine.

[Thor665]

@thorn: Alright, I'll admit I'm not the best at remembering everything that's been said. My mind even has a terrible tendency to corrupt data sometimes. The more I read, the more it absorbs in.. but you can't expect anyone to remember everything that occurs in one of these games, that's why it's good to be able to defend one self.

So basically what I'm hearing is everything you say I should make sure to go fact check because you basically have like a 50% chance to just be totally making something up in your own head?
How sure are you on this Incog case of yours?

[Thor665]

Deadline is tomorrow - I'm actually pretty emotionally comfortable with either of the current leading lynches. People should be adjusting themselves though. Crayons has (if I recall correctly) come out against both lynches and Haylen has...posted...
If someone is on Incog and is fine with a TMW lynch too how about you hop over?

[Thor665]

I might be a bully, I was certainly reacting negatively towards you. I do have a bad habit in that I get tense when people forget things I have said and make up things I haven't said and then call me scummy because of it. I don't think this habit will go away.

I'll double check you more in the future. I don't think your Pine case is all that solid, especially not in light of multiple Pine=town cases. It's certainly not going anywhere fast. How do you feel about Yos' "none shalt vote Incog" stance and Camn's abandonment of the wagon? Looks like the Incog wagon is dying fast, hard, and in a jiffy.

[Thor665]

Sibelian?

[Thor665]

The obscurity of Trip's claim in no way adds to his scumminess. Don't hammer over that.

[Thor665]

I'm here - I want a hammer. I own a Mjolnir, but I want another one.

[Thor665]

Terrible day was terrible.

Vote: TripMyWire

Hate Pine, Haylen, and Medicated Lian...also hate Green Crayons but he is pardoned due to death.

[Thor665]

You have given me good reference material as to why waiting till deadline for hammers is terribad and needless.

Why do I feel like you're trying to start up that Incog wagon again without bringing anything new to the table other than "lol, more time in day na0w!"
I'd rather lynch you than Incog right now, and that's terrible.

[Thor665]

I need not explain anything. I already told you I wasn't voting for Trip on day two. He just had surgery, so I was excusing the lack of play. Now that it's day three however, I consider this real game, and will not hesitate if I feel that he is scum. That being said, I don't actually think that trip is scum. BM's posting more than anything is the only thing that really makes me think anything of Trip... but I'm just not sure what to make of it right now. Thor, you know exactly what I am talking about with trip's play, so why are you voting him? If this is meant to kill, then my suspicions lean right back to you.

This is meant to kill.

[Thor665]

And because you weren't lynched yesterday
Yeah.

[Thor665]

Anyway, I'd like camn to full-claim Today and reveal all the stuff she said she'd reveal. No clue why everyone just kinda seems to have forgotten about her soft-claim from Yesterday.

Snap!
Good point, blame hatred at no lynch. Sounds like a good plan to me.

[Thor665]

Incog can be town just for that.

[Thor665]

camn - if you are town there's a good chance I'll hate you for this play. Your goal in not claiming was to draw a NK - you failed to do that vs. scum going for someone who looks pro-town. Maybe you should try to be more pro-town to draw a NK? Are you standing by your 'I'll claim PR at 2 votes but it hurts town to fullclaim" stance?

[Thor665]

@TMW - also PoE and ennui.

@ML - you're contemplating turning around on TMW? The *best* I can give him is no one hammered him. If he was scum then all the scum had to be on him already or one would probably have hammered him for town points prior to Pine (unless Pine was that scum, but I'm doubting). The problem is, in a sea of wine, it works both ways - if he was town would he have been so hard to put over? But that's all I've got, and even with that he should probably go because he's an issue to the town now - you can't keep around someone put to L-1 and not lynched because of deadline, they're a liability to town unless we can confirm them as town.

[Thor665]

Though if you want to speed lynch camn I'm game.

[Thor665]

Though if you want to speed lynch camn I'm game.

Pro town how?

Explain the last pro town thing you did which will make this desire look silly.
I'll wait.

Thor, I don't understand your sayings. You are voting for trip, yet you think it is scummy if I pull the trigger on him, because you don't think he is scummy, yet you are voting for him?

You don't understand what I said.
Please quote where I said it would be scummy for you to pull the trigger on him. When you fail to find that you'll realize you didn't read what I said very well.

@TMW - also PoE and ennui.

What's ennui?

Google is your friend;

a feeling of utter weariness and discontent resulting from satiety or lack of interest; boredom: The endless lecture produced an unbearable ennui.

Now - do anything pro-town, or replace out (unless you're scum - because in that case you're playing perfectly)

Consider me 50% on that camn wagon too.
Haylen wagon suxx0rs though - it should die.

[Thor665]

There's a vote on Haylen, ergo there is a wagon there.
It should die.
You should try to look pro town in any way whatsoever.

[Thor665]

Good point.

Unvote: TripMyWire
Vote: Camn

Though if your reply was as regards the Haylen wagon - because Haylen is town and I'm voting you for not clarifying your responses.
If it's as regards why you should do stuff to be pro-town, my vote is my answer.

[Thor665]

@Camn - so you admit you look scummy? What more of a case do I need?

[Thor665]

Yeah, let's lynch camn.
Speed wagon is go!

[Thor665]

Hey yos, when you call her scummy and someone as dashing and handsome as me is voting her you're supposed to help by voting her too.

@Camn - Haylen looked really town on my read through bad play =/= scummy play, sadly enough.

[Thor665]

Yos is stridently against the Incog lynch.
I think Yos is town.
I'm giving him benefit of the doubt on the read.

[Thor665]

Nope, if you recall the long ago times of last day phase I specifically came in and wanted to lynch Incog, and Yos argued with me, and I settled for a Trip lynch.

[Thor665]

[3] Incognito - Pine, TripMyWire, camn

Also, if we think Incog is town - than there's pretty certainly 1 scum in the above list.
Oh, hey TMW and camn, how're tricks?

[Thor665]

Trip wagon really should have happened yesterday.

We're blaming Pine and Haylen for that, right? I just want to know who we're cursing about after endgame

[Thor665]

I dunno - try it and see. But you already gave me the opportunistic shift to now seeing camn as scum and now you're asking permission to vote someone instead of having your own conclusions - so really you're just making me want to lynch you dramatically more that as soon as one other person moves onto you I'll be there too.

[Thor665]

A camn wagon? I can possibly see it in her actions lately. Alright, so it seems no one has looked into the interactions between camn and BM yet and since that is the main reason people are voting for me I figure it would be the best way to help clear my name.
[snip]So I guess she's moving out of my "undecided" category towards the "scum" category, but I still think Incognito is our best bet.

Basically for that part of it. You appear to be setting yourself up for a functional push to camn while supporting the Incog wagon (which, I submit, is Camn's baby)

In other words, in that post, you supported the counter wagon to you and shifted your view on another player who was the other potential wagon. Just looks scummy as all get out and reinforces my belief that you should have been dead yesterday - hence my post.

And, yes, people should sheep me. Buddying is optional.

[Thor665]

@Yos - what are your thoughts here, I'm strongly conflicted by the whole camn interaction with the TMW wagon.

TMW looks uber bad, and his brilliant defense to me pointing it out is to say "oh" and as far as that goes it's par for the course as he looked functionally scummy yesterday. But camn is clearly suddenly getting religion on that point, and after all the headbanging from yesterday the sudden shift feels non-natural. I don't have your meta experience with her, but she really looks to be flopping around in an unhappy way. Her appeal to you for the claim thing makes sense and felt townish to me, the way she claimed initially did not feel townish to me in any way, and now the sudden flash of insight on Trip just feels canned.

I think we need to lynch Trip, and do so today. I would like to have you spell out some specific thoughts about camn prior to going into night as I'd like to have them from you on the table in case you end up deadified.

[Thor665]

That's L-1, who wants to be my hero?

[Thor665]

Wait, I'm confusing games. That's L-something or other. If it's L-1 I'll hammer him, but I want to hear from Yos first.

@ML - feel free to, y'know, weigh in on the camn thing as well.

[Thor665]

He means that trickery and her are a possible combination.

Also;

STOP.
MJOLNIRTIME!

Unvote: Camn
Vote: TripMyWire

[Thor665]

If that's a town claim - then I want you to offer your thoughts going out the door.
If it's admission of scum - huzzah for me, boo for Haylen and Pine

[Thor665]

I think you're town and have said this repeatedly.
It's still boo you for not lynching him if he was scum regardless of your morals - I'd say more but I feel you'd be upset about my snark, so I'll at least say I *am* thinking about things I post and don't care to hear different. Passive aggressive for the win!

[Thor665]

Nope, I was merely restating the previously expressed opinion that you and Pine are to blame for the failure to lynch yesterday and I did not find it helpful to the game. Never said i found you scummy for it at any time.

And yes, I do not believe it is needed to go to deadline every time - look what happened yesterday, do you think that helped town that we went to deadline and had people sleep/have work/forget to the point we failed to lynch? I really strongly feel that is way worse than "rushing" to a lynch that we wanted to do last Day Phase and failed to do giving scum a free kill and basically leaving us in no better of a scumhunting position than where we were yesterday.

So, yeah, I think I'm playing awesome. If he's scum you can call me awesome,a nd if he's town you can call me stupid, but I don't think my thought process getting to this point is inherently bad in any way.

[Thor665]

Haylen is still prob town - she was trying to look like a bad scumhunter *and* scummy for kvetching with me about the whole Trip thing, and I don't think scum would want to put themselves in that position. She seems to have a slight personal dig with me, but even so that seems ballsy and poor play to do as scum - hence she remains town.

I could do Pine, I suppose. I seem to recall him looking quite town for some reason, but his lack of hammer is awkward for that read. I'm not sure about him and Trip trying to work the Incog wagon...of course Trip was probably ordered to be a WIFOM bastich all day yesterday.

Yos was killed because Yos was playing well. Frankly, I sorta suspected I'd end up dead too, but I'm hardly shocked by Yos.

One of bvoight or camn is probably scum - I seriously cannot believe scum didn't want to get in a little bussing action on something as tasty as the Trip wagon. I would have been dry humping it all day.

I think I need to do one of my lazy and haphazardly colored vote analysis charts for a bit more consideration, with two flips there's probably some juicy goodness there.

I'm lazy as heck though - if someone wants to do it first I'll just call them obv. town for the rest of the game, deal?

If not, I'll get to it Sun/Mon.

[Thor665]

VC #1 - The Friendly Mod Votecount

Incognito (3):

PeregrineV

, bvoight, Haylen

Magua (2): Green Crayons

, camn

TripMyWire

(1): Incognito

Thor

(1):

TripMyWire

Yosarian2

(1):

Magua

Haylen (1):

Yosarian2

camn (1):

Medicated Lain

Not Voting (3):

Thor

, Pine,

Battle Mage

Increased chance for bvoight, Haylen, and Incog to be scum.

VC #4 - The Clean Incisions Votecount

Haylen (3):

Yosarian2

, Incognito,

PeregrineV

Pine (2): bvoigt, camn
Incognito (2):

TripMyWire, Battle Mage

camn (1): Pine

Battle Mage

(1):

Green Crayons

PeregrineV (1): Magua
Green Crayons (1): Medicated Lain

Not Voting (3):

Thor

, Haylen

Kinda of a funny moment, and it plays into Yos' Incog=town theory nicely.

VC #6 - The Six-Foot-Six (Head And Shoulders) Votecount

PeregrineV (4): Magua

, bvoigt, camn, Incognito
Incognito (1):

TripMyWire

camn (1): Pine

Battle Mage

(1):

Green Crayons

TripMyWire

(1):

Yosarian2
Green Crayons (1): Medicated Lain
Magua (1): PeregrineV

Not Voting (3):

Thor

, Haylen,

Battle Mage

D1 VC #7 (Final D1 VC) - The Thankless Job Votecount

PeregrineV (7): Magua

, bvoigt, camn, Incognito,

Yosarian2

,

Battle Mage

, Pine
Incognito (1):

TripMyWire

Battle Mage

(1):

Green Crayons
Green Crayons (1): Medicated Lain
Magua (1): PeregrineV

Not Voting (3):

Thor

, Haylen

Before and after final lynch vote count. There's probably at least one other scum on that Pere lynch, and Trip was off it the whole time and nuthugging Incog. If Incog is town that increases scum chance on bvoight, camn, and Pine.


Okay, that's about all I have patience for right now - Day 2 will be later today. Things I notice;

Haylen is never voting anyone - ever. (trend continuing in what parts of Day 2 I've done) this is sad sack, but at the same time probably continues trend of her being town.
Incog is prob town.
bvoight is coming up in a lot more questionable positions than I would have liked - does anyone recall why he's town? Please remind me.
Hopefully the Day 2 and 3 (aka - Day 2) VCAs will help clarify some of the camn/bvoight/Pine slurry.
We've had a lot of nights of no anatomy being removed - increases chances of limited shot Vig and decreases chances of SK role. Suspect 2 scum left methinks.

[Thor665]

A bodyguard died the night bvoight targeted Crayons.
Crayons died the next night.
You sat on this.
::sadface::

[Thor665]

@bvoight - what's the flavor of the JK?

[Thor665]

To clarify - how does flavor explain Mag JKing?

[Thor665]

@xofelf - if camn, bvoight, and Incog read as town to you I'm not sure why I should be a 50/50 split - who else do you think is scum?

Also, you're not voting one of your scum reads yet, are you?

[Thor665]

Also - bvoight doesn't read as legit. But he needs to explain a bit more before I go screaming death clan on him. Mostly because I need to drink a lot of coffee and lower my IQ by a few dozen points to actually imitate the clan

[Thor665]

Also, I'll admit another thing holding me back is camn held back - but after the bodyguard thing I [the conversation redacted so Haylen doesn't feel I'm being mean to other players] until I almost choked to death in confusion at the stupidity and decided to bait them along.

[Thor665]

Describe the roleblock effect - I may have been stupid earlier, but I wish to make sure.

[Thor665]

Other than your vote after narrowing it down to two possible scum in a likely two scum remaining setup?
No.

[Thor665]

Also it's probably mylo though with some debate if you think we have a Vig or SK.

I'm thinking mass claim is the way to go - thoughts?

@Haylen - because mountains should scrape the sky, rain should be torrential, and ice should be freezing cold.

[Thor665]

Other people should weigh in - otherwise I'll just flip a coin and try to lynch someone out of boredom. I have no social skills, so you know I'll do it!

[Thor665]

This game is accelerating into fail fast - since I have basically 100% of everyone who checks in on this game about once every 36 hours I'm taking that as masscalim is O-Tay!

@camn - why don't you count as the official first claim - you may popcorn where you wish.

[Thor665]

@Incog, please claim and popcorn.

@camn - as long as we're sitting around with our donks in our hands and looking hopeful - what's you ropinion on my Day 1 vote count analysis?

Also, whoever actually posts next besides camn I'll just call obv. town on principal - you're all TERRIBLE for this lurk fest, what is this gak?

[Thor665]

Incognito (2):

TripMyWire, Battle Mage

Why dont

I

get townpoints for posting?

Because you're not lurk scum if you're scum and you're not lurk town so don't need those points.

Did you quote that bit just to show how brilliant I am, or did you have an opinion about it?

[Thor665]

I'm just going to presume camn is obv. town now as she's the only other player who gives a fig.

Seriously - any of the rest of you who are town are pretty close to deserving to be blacklisted by me just for apparent lack of care about a game you signed up for. What is this gak? I don't need a novel, I don't need brilliance, I do need your participation, opinions, and, eventually, votes. Cut this out!

[Thor665]

In a world where you admit we are PR heavy why are you focused on xofelf?

[Thor665]

Given the fact that camn and bvoigt have semi-confirmed one another as having the abilities each other has said they have, I think it's pretty safe to say that neither one of the two is lying about their roles.

camn has been basically confirmed as a Watcher of some alignment, I agree.
That said, her quickness to accept the Bodyguard thing when being a Watcher is...eh, the vote doesn't make sense.
Has the JK been proven in any way other than that bvoight targets, probably, without killing?
All I've really got is more reasons to think bvoight is town, and camn remains questionable either through silliness or actual scumminess.

[Thor665]

Camn has a decent sell for her being town insomuch as bvoight is alive, that's easing me up slightly on that angle, still, something remains odd with decisions made;

@Camn - I agree that Incog was obv. mason buddy, but...why'd you popcorn to him then?

@Xolelf - you're up in popcorn since Haylen couldn't manage that.

@bvoight - conidering your protect of Yos potentially saved him from the SK - why didn't you protect him twice?

[Thor665]

You name claim first, then I shall

[Thor665]

Don't blame me, you're the one who spread your claim out over twelve posts and three days

I'm VT.
I'm Pavi Largo.

We have a SK.

[Thor665]

Well, I'll admit fluffwise both Marni an Shiiloh being in the game makes zero sense *and* they are our current lynch pool - which makes me feel good.

@camn - aw, c'mon, someone we're 'cleared' is probably scum, that's the way it always works. Most of our current clears are relational anyway - and that doesn't work for an SK.

[Thor665]

Not SK:

Thor - for being obv. town.
Bvoight - for targeting someone who didn't die who the bodyguard also didn't target.
Incog - for being Mason.
Camn - for being watcher

Yeah, so we're already in a 50/50 to hit the SK.

Not scum;

Thor - for being obv. town.
Incog - for being Mason.
At least one of Camn/bvoight - because otherwise that way lies insanity.

Pine/xofelf seems more likely at a glance to be scum due to save of Trip via - lol, work!
Of the two PRs I look slightly more askance at Camn but admit her little wifom point of bvoight being alive strikes me as a solid reasoning point.
Haylen seems more likely SK because all her current town tells are relational to how she interacted with scum.

I like our odds on the lynch today.

[Thor665]

Probably only one actual mafia scum left.
I would expect it to be a power role of some flavor.

Haylen/xofelf - whichever of you is the SK isn't winning - wanna claim and help coordinate with us to get scum? Might be the only way you last long enough to get to a Kingmaker situation which is your only chance right now.

[Thor665]

@xofelf - are you the SK? I'll sheep you if you are.

[Thor665]

Lylo with a mason? That would actually be easy - we'd lynch you.

[Thor665]

You're thinking tracker, not Watcher - A JK on you while a kill happens would clear you of that kill though.
From your perspective the xofelf lynch would clear you though - why even worry about the situation after that?
Would you like to claim SK? I'd sheep you in hunting scum.

[Thor665]

Lylo with a mason? That would actually be easy - we'd lynch you.

Trust me, we'd lynch YOU.

Not when you think a lylo with a mason, you, and 'other guy' is an epic event. That's an easy event.
Why do you think we should lynch the obv. scum prior to the obv. SK? You even flat out called Haylen's claim a liar claim...based on the nameclaim of someone you're calling scum and voting for, so...?

@Haylen - Shiloh = kid Marni = Mom who died in childbirth.
Thus...kinda super unfluffy to have them both alive.

What are your current reads? You're town who's probably gonna be mislynched today so you should probably get those out asap, because I'm about to scream, cuss, and lob around my e-peen to speedlynch you tomorrow.

[Thor665]

@Haylen - did you happen to notice that Incog claimed mason? Also, a lot of your reads are spur of the moment 'this page' type of reads, and feel super weak. You also fail to grok my sarcasm...which happens to a lot of people, but - hey - that's half the point of the sarcasm.

[Thor665]

Trust me, it would be epic. You would be trying so hard to get me lynched, and you would fail.

If you're scum, my advice to you is to kill me prior to endgame.

[Thor665]

Other than AtE is there a reason not to lynch you?
Where did I go wrong in my case that narrowed you down as a SK suspect?
If Haylen 100% has to be SK who is the last Mafia and why?

There are things you can be doing that are more helpful to town than just lambasting us and moaning.

[Thor665]

@camn - have you not noted me mocking that Bodyguard thing?

Spelling it out - if the bodyguard had been involved, you would have seen him target GC as well. Consequently, the bodyguard was not involved. Your acceptance of that, as I said, is twinging either my scumdar or my sillydar - but that's an issue to sort out a bit later. But the Bodyguard was not involved.

[Thor665]

Be sad your slot was so generally anti-town and consider the camn/bvoight question some more.

[Thor665]

So which of you is the scum and which of you is the SK - it's Kingmaker and I'm one of the town, so you can start groveling for my benefit now.

[Thor665]

Nah, you're either the SK or the scum - probably the scum since I'm guessing the SK is bulletproof, and scum would fear that as well. I don't like being lied to so now I'm starting to think I'll help bvoigt with the kingmaker choice. We'll see if he can butter me up better.

[Thor665]

Do you actually expect me to be that dumb?
I'm strongly leaning bvoigt if, for no other reason, not insulting my intelligence.

Clearly town doesn't deserve to win because town failed at life when we caught TMW (and this game will go into the annals of 'Reasons Thor isn't against 'early' lynches and anyone who is is stupid and probably ugly')
I'm neutral on the Haylen win because she's insulted my intelligence and also was lurk sack for the victory.
I'm currently leaning bvoigt because at least he played to his wincon, and though I was getting onto him via VCA yesterday I'm not sure if I would have sprung at him properly (and, hell, I lurksacked out around the xoelf business, I wasn't for it totally - but I should have been more forthright with my beliefs). Also he did a decent job of looking town through most of the game.

Idunno.

@bvoigt - the only reason I'm tempted to hand the win to Haylen is she seems sad and I think a win would make her feel better. What are your thoughts?

[Thor665]

Actually - I have to withdraw some of my town hate - about half the town really played a very solid game and doesn't deserve that. If we hadn't had derp out around TMW town probably could have won and looked good doing it.

[Thor665]

Yeah, but it was annoying to me while playing the game - I do it as scum too but...I at least sorta pretend to hate myself while I do it.
Why do you deserve the win more than the scum team?

[Thor665]

Well, in reverse of that you refused to hammer TMW because for some reason you thought he looked anything like town.
Still, at least you're pandering to me, and I sort of like that - eh, I'll give bvoigt till this time tomorrow to pander me better and then I'll just hammer him and hand you the win. Emotionally I think you will benefit from it more. (though I'll still want you to explain that outburst about me being a jerk post game )

[Thor665]

Haylen/xofelf - whichever of you is the SK isn't winning - wanna claim and help coordinate with us to get scum? Might be the only way you last long enough to get to a Kingmaker situation which is your only chance right now.

Oh woe is me.

[Thor665]

Pics or it didn't happen

Yeah...unfortunately that's about the lay of the land as I expected it. I'm mostly just a little bitter because looking back over my posts my reads were all universally pretty solid and accurate, and town still somehow managed to grind into the derptastic loss here. Bleh, I should have done more yesterday, really, I wanted to lynch Haylen more than xoelf (though I wasn't really on top of the bvoigt JKer thing) but it came at a bad time for me to devot proper care and attention to the game, and I think that's where I failed.

Haylen probably did more to come further in the game.
Overall I think bvoigt played the "better" game though and overcame some tough scumpartner situations.
The town who actually played were actually, for the most part, pretty solid and most of my vitriol is directed at players who ended up flaking out or just drastic lurking (and maybe a little at camn...I'm not actually sure if I hate her play or not this game). We really were in pretty awesome cruise control till we sort of sheeped into the acceptance of the JK claim without considering double nightkill possibles (and, really, we *should* have - bvoigt was a top suspect at the time...for me...but I was the only one who'd listed suspects and nobody had said 'boo' about it so I'll presume the others agreed.) I was certainly sleepwalking at that point, and it was foolish and stupid of me.

Gah - I'm *really* conflicted right now. Both of you 'fooled' me as much as the other, and I think I'd 'caught' both of you about equally well also. Eh...

Really I just hate everyone else being PRs so they got killed so I had to make this choice.

Meh.

Vote: Bvoigt

I think an SK getting to endgame is more impressive than a scum getting there. Besides, you're probably on a better W/L run currently.

Sorry town.
Hate you town
Sorry scum.
Congrats SK.
Mostly a good game, sub-optimal from me yesterday and sub-optimal from a few players at various points elsewhere, town got lazy in waves and it hurt us overall.

[Thor665]

Also, hey, fluffwise I always rooted for Nathan anyway.

[Thor665]

Eh, that's what you get for not killing me because all the town who liked you better were PRs
Sorry.

[Thor665]

@Magua - whut? I was voting TMW that day!

[Thor665]

Lol hey thor. I wasn't bullet proof :p You could have won by getting me and Bvoigt to shoot each other during the night.

Town could have won a couple of different ways at a couple of different times. But, yeah, maybe I should have just gone for the theory chance once I had decided I'd let you win anyway.

[Thor665]

I think I'll make that my stated gameplan for all time now - at the very least maybe no one will force me into kingmaker ever again with that as the plot.

[Thor665]

In retrospect - we really should have been on Mag more considering who town roles were.