Chuck Season 1 - GAME OVER

[Thor665]

@Emp - explain what further? There should be a pro-town Day Vig or else my role makes very little sense.

But what is your role?

I'll go into that once we have verification (or lack thereof) of a pro-town Dayvig.
I'm non-standard.

[Thor665]

Crappity crap crap - I'm going to go look through some of Mothrax's other modded games to see if I can figure out how he does his kill flavor.

@Mod - Can you provide any clarification to how Mothrax handled kill flavor in this game?

[Thor665]

I think this MBF/Rag dichotomy is the perfect place for an SK. Having two players confirmed essentially as mason-vigs is incredibly powerful for the town, and I don't see the mafia having anything near powerful enough to counter that. If they do, it's not a role I've ever heard of. It makes perfect sense for the mod to balance vig and SK by making them neighbors together. It gives the SK some protection because they can claim to be another vig, which is good since SK is generally a severely underpowered role. They can also try to influence the vig's kills somewhat. However, at the same time it makes the SK somewhat accountable for their kills, since they are neighbors with the vig. This is a good balancing factor for the town, as it encourages the SK to hunt for mafia.

This is a good point. It's a powerful setup and naturally the thought of one even/odd Vig would be that the other shares his alignment. As confirmed Vigs to each other they become frighteningly deadly to the Mafia who would need something powerful to counter them. RB isn't bad, and we don't know what else the Mafia may have, but I agree they're powerful paired with a cop and my role and a potential town Day Vig.

Alternate thought - they're the mafia, and an SK who killed ooba isn't willing to counter claim to sink them. Alternate nights jazz could just be hedging bets in case of tracker/watcher and they were just declaring who took the shots as dana was obviously blocking.

[Thor665]

I would guess since it's a self confirming and obvious power they may not have felt the need?
I dunno.

[Thor665]

vote dramonic

. I learned nothing new from the mass claim, except that Thor sucks at fake-claiming.

If I'm fakeclaiming shouldn't you be lynching me?

@Rag - no, I have explicitly said this.

[Thor665]

Unvote: dramonic

[Thor665]

@Rag - Empking already asked me the same thing, why are you expecting a different answer?
Yes - my role makes it very clear there is a pro town Dayvig.

[Thor665]

If I was a doc that could protect from Dayvigs why would that make the Dayvig pro-town? It would be the opposite, yes?
Why MoS?

[Thor665]

So you're certain the remaining scumteam is dram/Thor - or are you compromising here?
Also - why do you think my claim is fake?

[Thor665]

@Rag - I will. But not prior till 9pm EST tonight. I'm still hoping the Vig wises up and claims, because between my power and his power we can deal with the you/mbf "vigs" and be looking very good going into tomorrow.

[Thor665]

@Rag - though as long as we're making requests. My request to you is that you copypasta some of that awesome scumhunting from your QT into the thread here.

[Thor665]

If I was a doc that could protect from Dayvigs why would that make the Dayvig pro-town? It would be the opposite, yes?
Why MoS?

So it would seem. Which brings up the question why you are so sure there is such a thing, and why you are inssiting on it before full claiming.

I'm sure...because I'm not a Daycop? I actually don't understand your point here at all. Could you restate it please?

[Thor665]

*Day doc - whatevs.

[Thor665]

Does this mean you don't believe the vig claims?

If my Dayvig buddy shows up - heck no I don't believe them.
If there is no dayvig...I'll be back to the drawing board.

Also @Rag- don't quote QT- Capital offense

Fair point - though I think you're allowed to quote yourself and have done so in other games. She can paraphrase it to avoid issues.

[Thor665]

@mbf - What's even funnier with that vote count is before I unvoted you weren't voting with your 'obv. town' buddy Rag for Thor - but where instead voting with obv. scum Thor for dramonic.
I really want there to be a Day Vig so we can wipe the slate clean of both of you.

[Thor665]

@Pere - one page ago when I asked him about his dram vote.

@mbf - I'll accept funny as better than the insults from earlier. Why is my claim so false?

[Thor665]

Before or after my full claim?

[Thor665]

@Thor- You are/were voting MBF, yet unvoted Dram, who MBF just voted for. ????

Yeah...and? You're posting a lot of question marks without actually asking a question.

[Thor665]

@Thor-
It meant "What's up with that?"

Thor votes MBF
MBF votes Dram
Thor unvotes Dram

What's up with that?

Well, first off;

Thor Votes MBF
Thor unvotes and votes Dram.
MBF Votes Dram.
Thor Unvotes Dram.

Second off - what *is* up with that? I see good logic there, what's the question?

[Thor665]

Debate, debate, debate whether it helps to not claim...I doubt it;

Official Claim: Day doc

As mbf surmised, I was lying through my teeth. My goal was to convince the Scum Day Vig role to out itself for a 1:1 trade - no dice, and we don't have enough time for me to keep dorking around with this play.
This is also why I was hoping around on mbf when he was gakking around with his partial claim, because I wanted to see if he'd claim Dayvig powers too.

I protected Ant Day 1.
I protected no one Day 2.
I may or may not have protected someone today - I'm not telling in the off chance it gaks with the scum with Day kill power.

Possible thoughts about my role and how it works

I really don't think I'm a night doc unless Mothrax was totally frelling with my head, as my role PM is very specific in that I protect people 'during day phase'.
It's *possible* that there is a scum/SK killing power who targets during the day and flips happen at night and Ant was the Night 1 kill prevented by me...I kinda doubt it, but I want it out there as a thought in case it's true so I can claim personal brilliance.
Lack of a regular Doc claim is confusing the frell out of me - I'm almost starting to think it was a double tap from scum/Vig (which if it was means if Rag is town that she suxx0rs as you shouldn't be vigging the same player scum is targeting, natch)
One of the reasons I've been so antsy is, as everyone's discussing possible mylo tomorrow - if scum have a Daykill power it's really pretty much scum win tomorrow *or* my role exists to freak me the frell out (yes, mothrax, I hate you )

At least one of the claimed PRs is obviously lying their pants off.

Post claims Pere feels like he's exploded into 'lookit me, town!' action - he remains a top death desire.

Now the true soup of the PR bundle is thus;

Ant as a scum claiming cop makes a lot of sense if scum shot at Rag's target night 1. Emp as buddy, declare innocent, claim 'doc' protection, Day vig tomorrow for lulz and win. Seems gutsy with a known alternate killing force out there, but...

I'd honestly be pretty much clearing Rag and mbf at this stage except for the Night 1 "vig" and mbf's freak out on me via self vote followed by not wanting to replace out. That is super sketchy and is making me climb walls in my own head. the fact he ignored it and claims he's staying to "annoy [me]" is even worse and is making my gut howl scum while my head doesn't want to buy it. If they're scum together they could be playing for the Dayvig trick as well, or it could be one of them...but I don't think that would make sense considering their powers. They have to be scum together if either is scum.

MoS is the funny niggle, he seems the 'easy' solution out and I've found KiSS to be a not unworthy tool in hunting scum. If he's scum than it helps elevate Rag/mbf to not scum status. He could be scum with any of the remaining questionable players though. The tough part with him is, if he's scum, he bussed that roleblocker pretty hard.

Roleblocker flip proves town has targeting tech - At least Ant *or* the Vig twins need to be pro-town to justify that.

Existence of my role suggests anti-town DayVig which is super powerful - that can justify pro town Vigs and Cop to my mind, especially with roleblocker in existence.
-----------------------------------------------

Where I'm at currently is probably leaning towards an MoS lynch.
If he's scum then I'd like Rag to shoot at one of Pere or dram.
if he's not scum I'd rather not see a Vig shot because if it's wrong I do believe the Day Vig could then shoot tomorrow and effectively lock down town for the autowin.
Thoughts?

We also need a VCA done - I'll make that a goal tomorrow.

[Thor665]

Oh - Pere gets extra scumpoints for calling me a Day Doc out of nowhere. Though I'd like opinions on that one as I might be confirm biasing how he made that mental leap.

[Thor665]

I choose during the day - duuur.
To be precise - anytime during the day.

I'd be fine with the Dayvig test, though submit it would be smarter to choose a target we actually want to lynch since if we prove there's a Dayvig I become confirmed town as soon as we lynch him and he's scum - derpy-doo.
The other issue is you need to make sure Mod clarifies after each posting what happens - if six people post that and then I die - who was the activating party? Play smarter, mbf, or I'll keep being condescending over here.

Kill: MoS
Dayvig: MoS
Murder: MoS
Assassinate: MoS
Vigkill: MoS
Vig: MoS
Eliminate: MoS

[Thor665]

@Mod - please post confirm that you've seen mbf's and my actions

[Thor665]

@mbf - now that the mocking and adjusting of your plan is over and done with - do you have any mocking and adjusting of my stated plan?

[Thor665]

Oh, and no one else posts an action list till mod confirms seeing mbf's - some *one* else can post targeting MoS, though that's my personal bias as I know I'm not a Dayvig.

[Thor665]

1. I was debating how best to use the power - my theory had become scum would want to use it as a claim for town points so would tend to shoot scummy people - not claimed cops. I didn't see much value in trying to predict 'the towniest scummy person' so didn't.
2. Gut - probably at some point Day 1 i called him fairly obv. town, that's probably when I protected him.

[Thor665]

@dram
@mbf

Niether of you commented on Pere calling me Daydoc prior to my claims. Thoughts on me calling this a scumtell? Does that seem a surprising leap suggesting inside knowledge of some aspect of the game mechanic, or was I an obv. Daycop?

[Thor665]

*Daydoc, even - sorry, my mind apparently accepts Daycops and Dayvigs more readily than Day docs.

[Thor665]

Wait - if my role is factual he's obv. town? What am I missing and why are you targeting him?

[Thor665]

Thor, why did you not protect anyone Day 2? When do you have to send in your choice?

I already answered both of these questions within the last four hours.

[Thor665]

I think the Day Doc refers to the fact that you submit your target during the day (ie, before the lynch), but the target is protected from NK actions. I read about the concept (on this site) of submitting night targets during the day phase instead of the night phase, to make players think about it a little more.

My role PM specifically suggests this is not the case. I protect people during the Day Phase - not the Night Phase.

(The only reason I said daydoc awas becuase you kept looking for a dayvig )

Why were you so sure I was Doc?

[Thor665]

I asked about lynch - no I don't.
Also, as stated, my role PM is very clear that I protect during the day phase for the duration of that day phase. The only way I stopped a Night 1 kill was if scum/SK submit kill during the day phase and the flip happens at night.

[Thor665]

Also YOU'RE ALL IGNORING THE OBVIOUS HOLE IN MBF'S PLAN THAT I POINTED OUT!

Here's a shocking hint - if Peregrine suddenly drops dead...who is the Dayvig? I'm pretty sure the mod isn't going to go "Congrats...'insert player name'" in the kill post.
Stop posting those things NOW!

[Thor665]

Here you go MoS;

I choose during the day - duuur.
To be precise - anytime during the day.

1. I was debating how best to use the power - my theory had become scum would want to use it as a claim for town points so would tend to shoot scummy people - not claimed cops. I didn't see much value in trying to predict 'the towniest scummy person' so didn't.
2. Gut - probably at some point Day 1 i called him fairly obv. town, that's probably when I protected him.

@Rag - I sort of hoped my 'confirm pro town Vig' would have suggested the opposite of Day Doc, as Day Doc tends to confirm anti-town Vig. I'll agree RB+Day Vig equals wtf - the only possible explanations to my mind are;
1. My role exists only to frell with town's heads
2. Pere is right and I'm actually a regular doc, but the mod specifically frelled with the wording of my role PM in a way that's obnoxious if this is true.

I'm not particularly pleased with either option and would prefer to stick with worst case scenario as a possibility until we figure otherwise.

[Thor665]

Sent new mod a question about my role PM concerning targeting time.

Ant - can you clarify that you target at night?
Rag/mbf - same question.

[Thor665]

mothrax apparently didn't mod much - no clue how he handled multiple targeting.
Feeling squeamish that Pere isn't reacting to me drumming up talk about his role.

@Mos
@Pere
@Empking

I earlier outlined an issue my gut had with mbf's play - I would like your thoughts on this call. Basically the play went like this;

mbf: self-vote, because Thor sucks.
Thor: No, u!
mbf: suckssuckssucks
Thor: Neener-neener, sock-head! (hammer)
mbf: suxx0rs soooo hard, lost game for town!
Thor: Suckle on my reproductive organs!
mbf: You lower the quality of all games you look at!
MOD: No one is lynched
mbf: (unvote) Staying in game...just to annoy Thor. Didn't realize I wasn't hammered.

I don't feel like that's a normal town interaction. He should have either hated me enough to still self-vote and/or replace out to get away from me. Instead he decides to stay to annoy me...makes me want to say the whole thing was staged. Thoughts?

[Thor665]

I would rather have him saved by actions than outguessing the mod - as currently the setup appears to be somewhere between LOL and LOLOMGWTF!
You apparently think one of the Rag/mbf pair is scummy scum - why is Rag not saved by the setup and mbf is?

[Thor665]

@Pere - your role of being scum

@Emp - hmmm, good point. Okay, mbf can be town. I'm not sure on the Rag scum call though - you're basing that call on the single kill and we still have no idea how the mod handled multi-target. If scum targeted RC too (and that seems a smart scum NK that night...which is why Rag's vig suxx0red, fyi) it's potentially just a double tap that we don't know about.

Though I'm agreeing with your mbf town call - why did you say if Rag flips town mbf is your top scumspect earlier - wouldn't the same logic still hold true in making him not scum?

[Thor665]

Why do you not believe you protected Ant from the night1 mafia kill?

Because the only way that happened is if;

1. The mafia day target and flips happen at night.
2. mothrax (un)intentionally gakked up the description of my power in the role PM.

I'd love it if Reck would come back and clarify #2 for me if I'm wrong, but I really don't see #1 happening.

[Thor665]

Since #2 on the list is pretty explicit - I don't know why you think I'm a regular Doc who targets at day and protects at night since I have repeatedly said that's not what my role PM says I do. This isn't Paranoia Paradise where people actually try to Bastard Mod you, at MS it's considered a faux pa to have Bastardy modding without warning beforehand. Ergo this isn't Bastard, thus I am not just a regular Doc except that I target during the Day, thus something is frelled up.

[Thor665]

Mod has also confirmed that my ability works exactly like I believe it does - I did not prevent a Night kill Night 1.
Thus my role is either a giant FU to town, or we really have scum with a Daykill power.

I also frelling hate the question about the potential double kill Night 1 - mod is no help due to lack of mod notes, and is basically in a hard spot of having to either confirm double targeting or not at this stage and he doesn't want to do that.

@Rag - why did you shoot RC again?
@Vigs - why do you trust MoS considering you're both pro-town and neighbors?
@Emp - what makes you so certain Rag isn't just a twit who shot one of the most obvious town in the game? Isn't the whole, neighbor scum who changes flavor of scum kill to match that of Even Night Vig kind of a...odd setup?

[Thor665]

Dram and Ant still need to do Vig checks - I submit Pere or MoS are the reasonable ones to shoot at. One of you pick, and the second player can do the other one.

@Emp - my role exists, therefore I submit so does the Dayvig.

@mbf - My role does suck - I actually have Doc meta of me forgetting to use it at night (I lied about it to town so it only came out in Mod notes). I also have meta proof of forgetting to use a town JKer role (though that time I legitimately thought I had done it). I personally prefer VT as my role of choice because I usually get stressed and put off night decisions as too bothersome. For a Day Doc, who we all agree sucks, make it twice so.

Specifically about MoS - you are pro town neighbor, your partner is pro town neighbor...there is a claimed pro town neighborizer - why are neither of you voting him?

[Thor665]

Because I'm obv. town, a drunk rat could come up with a better fake claim, and I can't be the SK probably. Why, what do you think I am?

[Thor665]

MoS - I'm not the SK and I had the opportunity to claim Doc if I was so inclined, and wasn't in any danger of a lynch today...so my plan was to then whip out with 'lol, DayDoc' as a double blind twist on town to advance my scum agenda of...? Seriously?

[Thor665]

Rag - why am I more likely scum than MoS or dram?

[Thor665]

@mbf - considering your last attack on me and my reply I sort of expected a response. Also - I would love to see you explaining why dram (and me) need to be lynched asap and also addressing scumhunting in progress with my thoughts on Pere and MoS.

[Thor665]

When did I go away?

Dram - he's a question mark who I'm currently leaning reasonably likely scum partner to you or MoS on, but his willingness to call out mbf looks so darn townish it's dragging him towards the null pile.
MoS - Pretty heavily leaning scum. Would love to have him lynched today.
Emp - pretty heavily leaning town, would not support his lynch today at all.

[Thor665]

Why Pere over MoS - I think I'd prefer lynch MoS and we can have Pere as a 'shoot' target if MoS flips scum.

[Thor665]

MoS - Pretty heavily leaning scum. Would love to have him lynched today.

Why?

1. If I buy into the Vigs as town - your claim as a town power doesn't hold as much water.
2. Your claim of verifiable town power to save your backside when all you had was neighborizer is pretty weaksauce.
3. Your commentary about how analyzing the kill flavors is a crutch for weak scumhunters paired with a lack of clear scumhunting direction today is a jarring juxtaposition.
4. And, really primarily, pure gut because at the end of Day 2 when I was sort of snarking on everyone for not digging on the dana lynch (and what bussing scum would want to have a negative attitude towards that lynch) you leapt out with a 'oooh, oooh, all for it over here' remark all while not having done much to advance that lynch in the end of day hoopla.

[Thor665]

Dram and Ant still need to do Vig checks.
If Dram doesn't do his next time he posts I'll go ahead and vote him.

[Thor665]

Wait - never mind he did it. My bad.

[Thor665]

You're role sucks. If your plan was to claim a role so ridiculous that there's no way that it could be a fake claim then bravo - nobody's voting you.

Well, other than obv. town Rag - yeah.

I propose that Ant claim his investigation target, and Rag shoots at a person undisclosed.

This I'm actually pretty comfortable with though I would prefer Rag not shoot.

[Thor665]

Shot: pere[/b]

I'd still like a 'Shoot: Pere'

[Thor665]

Bleh, no one had shoot until Peregrine added it. But, still, to have that one adjusted may just be Ant's phone woes, but I'd rather make sure.

[Thor665]

Vote: MoS

I'd much rather do this - too much neighbor tech in my mind. If you believe Ant and the Vigs it is stupid not to be voting MoS.

[Thor665]

I'll also say again that Miss 'I'mma shoot RC' would probably benefit everyone and their uncle by not shooting anyone tonight unless we lynch scum.

[Thor665]

Would love to see some action/response.

I know town is tired and beat up after this day, but we are at a very important decision spot and all lethargy does is obligate us to a dram/Pere pick - which though it isn't bad as a 'let's pick someone off the dana wagon' style we also have the 'probably someone bussed dana' scum pool, and a MoS flip of scum basically verifies the Vigs as Vigs and is arguably a two for one deal.

Pere/dram is a decision I'm shying away from because it looks like a debate between a lurk slot and a slot I have issues with for its Day Doc insight - neither of which are a case I'm comfortable with trying to choose between.

Even if you fuggin' hate the MoS wagon a simple 'Thor you idiot, here is wht Pere/dram is obv. obv. scum" comment would be pretty useful to help town, advance your position, and set you up as obv. town if we lynch correct based on your case.

[Thor665]

I appreciate your Rag case, but it hinges on how mothrax would handle double targeting and we have no idea how that is. Why so confident about that?

[Thor665]

@Emp - current mod claims that as his system, you don't think that's a potential hint to how mothrax did it?

[Thor665]

Thor, seriously. "Too much neighbor tech"? It's a worthless role. It doesn't confirm anyone.

Except Rag for you, amirite

No, I think too much neighbor tech is a perfectly fine issue. If I'd claimed neighborizer would that have been too much neighbor tech? I think we're niggling on a matter of degrees, not on a matter of whether 'too much X tech' is a valid position.


@Emp - a potential hint? Why do I feel like your Rag case requires a lot of squinting and turning of the head sideways. Yeah, she's useless, and has been useless, and if mbf is town and she isn't she's pulled the wool so far over his eyes he's stepping on it as he mumbles about how useless dram is - but the setup is mafia kill and on odd nights have their kill flavor match the even night Vig who they are neighbors with as their roleblocker protects them from a Day Doc, a Neighborizer, and a Cop fumbling about? That would be a weird as hell setup and heavily scum favored.

Neighbor Vigs
Cop
Day Doc (lol?)
vs.
Roleblocker
Scum Neighborizer
Goon

Seems more reasonable, yeah?

[Thor665]

Why does the Rag one win out?

[Thor665]

I'd say it's very feasible that you and dana are scum-mates, especially considering your relationship before that.

What relationship before that? Was it the one on Day 1 where I was voting him and he was trying to buddy me?

Thor has one vote - you.
MoS has one vote - not you, meaning you could make it two.
Two of your town reads have two votes and I have discussed moving to one of them - meaning one of your scum reads could pick which of your town reads to lynch!

You could move one of your scumreads into actual contention as a possible lynch today and force me to stay there if I'm "bussing" again just like I did with my obv. buddy dana. Instead you don't move your vote at all as everyone is staring at two players you call town reads as the lynches of the day.
If you are town.
I hate you.

[Thor665]

MBF needs to come and remind me how obv. town Rag is - I'm starting to squint enough that Emp's case is looking good - and that scares me.

[Thor665]

I do treat choosing to leave the lynch of the day between two town reads when you could change the situation with your vote instead of leaving it as a wasted sideline vote to be a scumtell.
Why do you ask?

[Thor665]

Do you usually treat incompetence as a scumtell?

Also, are you admitting incompetence here? If you think I have a point then change your vote. If you don't think I have a point then tell me to sod off and explain how my lynch is going to happen today.
Or...just...keep wasting the Day...?

[Thor665]

@Rag/mbf - how come you guys aren't a voting block? You're both convinced the other is town, you have a QT, and you're apparently not agreeing on the strategy of the day.
If you're both town I also hate both of you as a unit as well as potentially separately. You feel like a pair of scum voting, not a pair of town.

[Thor665]

There is not that much time left, I am frustrated at a large variety of people and will probably have mumbly comments and wagging fingers at the endgame once I know everyone's alignment.
I'm still prtty game to get back to MoS if we can make that happen, and by 'make that happen' I mean two votes on him that aren't me.

Unvote: MoS
Vote: Peregrine

I dunno, I'm basing this mostly off of how Dram responded to my questions about Pere and the Day Doc thing. Dram said, basically, 'if your role is legit he looks really scummy.' Well, my role *is* legit, and second off, if Dram was scum and Pere wasn't I would tend to have expected some stronger language in that exchange, maybe even just a flat out calling of Pere scummy for the interaction. Instead - mush mouth. That's my call and I'm running with it.

We have less than 24 hours methinks, let's try to have a lynch - I understand they help catch scum.

[Thor665]

MOS: Why aren't you voting?

Because he's too busy defending himself vs. a vote that is no longer there and worrying about scum 'planning' for a cop investigation when they lack a roleblocker.

[Thor665]

I don't think they'll not care - but other than 'kill cop' what do you expect them to do?
Okay, now let's not tell them who the cop will investigate...are you expecting a plan other than 'kill cop'?
Oh, wait, but if they know we'll investigate a scum they'll 'kill cop'
Thankfully, if they know we'll investigate and clear a town for confirmed town they'll 'kill cop', I bet.

Did I come up with the 'something wrong' yet? Clue me in if I list 'something right' so I notice when it happens.

[Thor665]

I can see scum having some advantages with knowing kill target though - mbf has talked a lot of stuff I disagree with, but that one makes a lot of sense. Because the only time they want to 'kill Vig' is if Vig is targeting scum.

[Thor665]

Fair point. But scum are certainly happier if they know they don't need to sweat Vig target. Regardless of cop target it is bad for scum. Vig target can be good for scum.

[Thor665]

I guess since we're neighbors we have to think alike?

All I know is I certainly talk more and plan actions more with people I consider confirmed town. You guys are running around as a separate unit including such things as you saying Thor can't be lynched and Rag parking her vote on me all day while not pushing me until I start pushing her to be useful. You don't see how that is hurting town if you guys are both town? Because I can see it. If I'm scum I'm laughing at you for failing like this, and if I'm town with 2 of the remaining town totally sold on my scumminess - you guys should be proactively pushing my wagon until your reads change or I am lynched. Right now I'm getting Pere set up as most likely lynch and you're wasting time sniping at me because I'm a jerk. Well, I very well might be a jerk, but I'm a jerk who'd like the other town players to play better. Do you really see your current actions as helping you lynch dram or Thor your top scum reads? Do you see obv. town Rag helping you get those reads lynched? C'mon, this isn't rocket science. Call me a jerk, scream, yell, but at least proactively make a lynch you claim is pro town happen. We're lurking into a Pere lynch because I consider him a reasonable compromise - do you like that situation? Your actions seem to suggest you do. Whassup?

[Thor665]

You could replace out if you don't care anymore - that would be more pro-town. I'm grumbling about other people's play but I still believe I have responsibility to win or lose the game for my team - I'd rather have other people with the same beliefs as it makes for a better game if people are, y'know, actually playing it.

What are the dana interactions that damn the Dram slot?
Did you point out to Rag in the QT how she's failing town with her vote today? She seemed to react to me the instant I did so - not in the best way, but it was an immediate reaction.

[Thor665]

What are the dana interactions that damn the Dram slot?

I don't feel like repeating myself anymore.

They can't be that impressive then because I don't recall them. You should probably vote for Pere.

Everyone who is doing nothing to get a lynch is scum.

...hey, Reck, am I the only town player left in this game?

People should vote for Pere. Hell, people should vote for Dram even - they should be doing something right now.

[Thor665]

Thor still most probably needs a bullet

He says as he gets onto the wagon that isn't him when Thor easily could have voted Dram.
This makes sense to you?

[Thor665]

I'd like to hear a response, but yes.

[Thor665]

I pretty much already stated that I believe the scum are you, peregrine and a SK between our two neighbor vigs.

So you're saying 4 scum game with an odd/even Vig/SK?

So an SK that can kill only every other night because it's so powerful of a role?

[Thor665]

Yes.

[Thor665]

Because Pere is going to come leaping in with a huge pro-town moment?

Oh, wait, you're delaying for town points, right?

[Thor665]

Only 5 are alive.

Ant and Rag or MoS, probably an MoS preference of those two though it's gakking with my Ant read which is much stronger right now.

What's the point of this exercise?

[Thor665]

And I see Thor online.

Yeah, because I'm the lurker of the game.

[Thor665]

Because I wasn't killed and either have a useless power or scum can autowin right now by shooting someone.
Yourself?

[Thor665]

Thor: You think Ant is scum?

And you don't, which boggles my mind.
Scum don't go into 5 man lylo and not shoot the cop. Seriously now.

[Thor665]

All I want Rag to post is why she shot Dram and not me.

[Thor665]

@Ant - we should take that as a guilty on MoS? Because it sounds like you're calling him a GF while still calling Emp a GF.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on why you survived also, maybe I'm dumb, but I am confused.

[Thor665]

Yeah...did he suggest a target to you last night?
Could you summarize the conversation if so?

[Thor665]

I'll possibly mumble under my breath about that one, but we can wait till post game when you and mbf (or at least mbf) will be ready to rant and rave at me as well, apparently. I think I wanted death via vindication just to avoid the hard choices of today and tomorrow.

In any case - secondary kill - you are proven not mafia, though maybe SK, though that would just continue to spiral this game into wtf territory for me.

Pros for Ant being scum

He's alive.
He's alive in lylo.
He's alive in 5 man lylo.

Cons for Ant being scum

...I don't want him to be because it would vindicate my MoS call yesterday and let me mock mbf a bit more in endgame
If the cop is scum then that means town was 1 Neighborizer, 2 Neighbor/Odd/Even Vigs/and a role meant to distract and confuse town.

The lack of 2nd kill on Day 1 means either, magically, I am somehow some sort of Doc, and scum avoided killing Cop because they suspected protective role to stop them...or it was just a town Vig and scum targeting the same player (insert obligatory moaning and finger wagging here).

MoS works as scum for me, and I'm sad I'm left without Dram who i thought was a semi decent town clear via my logic...though I'm probably projecting and if he was alive right now It'd mess with my head.

Seems like either Emp or Ant has to be scum - only way to justify living cop.
Thoughts?

[Thor665]

@Ant - why would scum keep you alive to exploit their neighborhood and not try to influence you at all?

[Thor665]

Are you saying that if you were GF you'd have killed Ant to showcase how obv. town you were? Hmmm, maybe, though I can think of some lylo difficulties that would raise for you if we lynched correctly after an Ant death.

What is your call on Ant, you seem to be not weighing in.

[Thor665]

Are you saying that if you were GF you'd have killed Ant to showcase how obv. town you were? Hmmm, maybe, though I can think of some lylo difficulties that would raise for you if we lynched correctly after an Ant death.

How so?

Theoretically;

You are scum with let's say MoS, because it'll wok with a theory town Ant.

Ant dies last night.

Thor, Rag, and mbf sort of vaguely idiot savant together and lynch MoS

Going into night;

Unconfirmed Vig neighborhood.
Thor the weird Doc claim guy.
And the confirmed town guy.

Scum would not kill confirmed town because...?

But, to get back to my point, as you sleep on the deep question of Ant scum, you are advancing the idea that if you were GF you totally would have killed Ant, yeah?

[Thor665]

I'm not, but I'm strongly considering hammering you.
How about you try to sell me on a scumteam that includes Ant but not me?

[Thor665]

Oh...and I just realized that this game is pretty much going to be left in Rag's hands to win...wow...

Unless we're sticking with me as an actual Doctor with a near bastard role PM - which is the only reason to explain you being alive, and in that case Thor needs to theory die unless last scum is playing a flip game as to who I protect tonight. Yesterday was safe running that I wouldn't protect mbf, but between claimed cop and verified not scum? But that still boggles me as to why I didn't die last night then, at this point that should make Emp obv. scum from your perspective because otherwise you should be dead, yeah? Why would scum Thor/MoS throw away MoS or Thor when there's a solid chance your investigation was coming for one of us, and that there was a very solid chance Rag was going to shoot me?

If MoS wasn't even trying to influence your night pick, scum had less than zero reasons to have you alive unless Emp is scum.

Am I wrong?

[Thor665]

Dram: I have a town read on him, mostly because I find him to be pretty reasonable, and because vibes.

Thor: I still have a scumread on you. I read back on the day 2 dana wagon stuff. You placed the first vote on dana, and your last post before the dana lynch was when dana had two votes. I'd say it's very feasible that you and dana are scum-mates, especially considering your relationship before that.

MoS: No read, but more likely to be scum, through process of elimination.

@Ant - Yeah, tell me Thor/MoS expected Rag to do us a solid and shoot dram.
There is no reason for Thor/MoS to leave a cop alive who is likely to investigate one of MoS/Thor/dram since he was buying into the Vig story.
Gawds, Rag's shot choices are so off the wall this game they hurt my soul.

For Ant to be alive today, Thor/MoS would have to have a GF amongst them - considering my relationship with Rag yesterday there's no way in heck it makes sense for me to be the GF, therefore Thor/MoS needs MoS to be the GF to be a scum team.

I want thoughts on that case to prove MoS and I aren't partners - because if people can believe that, than my lack of hammer pretty much actually makes me CONFIRMED town, not just the obvious town I've been all game.

[Thor665]

I don't know!
:'(

What don't you know?
We've got a confirmed scum to lynch today, we can afford a bit of time to set up things for tomorrow.
Read the case, point at what you agree with or disagree with.
It makes uber sense.

[Thor665]

By the way - if Rag quickhammers, I want that to be thought of as a SK claim.

[Thor665]

My excuse will be I haven't protected anyone with my Doc power - so, yknow, we need the day to continue some more.

[Thor665]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p3096725

This post and the one immediately after it wants to spit in MoS's face for voting Ant - as you work on an Ant=scum case that doesn't include me, feel free to work with this one too, MoS.

[Thor665]

Look at the votes prior to that vote count.
Then look at the votes and the available wagons.
Then look at who Ant chooses to vote, and then tell me why he's scum.

[Thor665]

Okay, so Ant is scum and you're awesome - who's his partner, because we know it isn't me or I'd have won the game for scum by hammering you already.

[Thor665]

@Emp - please explain why GF Thor should have expected to live since the Vig clearly hated my guts. Yes, if I thought I would live leaving the cop alive to investigate me would be a normal GF type plan. But I had been specifically antagonizing both Vigs all day yesterday - you're calling that normal GF play?

Also - kudos on spotting the descending trap.

[Thor665]

Process of elimination leaves Empking, since I don't see Rag being mafia, because that would mean the mafia have two kills every other night.

Okay, so from your perspective;

Thor = obv. town
Rag = not scum team, so SK at worst, town at best.
Ant = obv. scum who claimed a false investigate on his buddy.
Emp = obv. scum buddy to false cop

Let me know if I get any of this wrong.

[Thor665]

Really? Who did you expect Rag to Vig?

[Thor665]

...okay, so knowing Rag isn't scum, which theoretically scumThor would - who would you expect her to kill. Because, yeah, if you're calling the scumteam GFThor+VigRag then I reckon I wouldn't expect to die - is that what you're doing?

[Thor665]

She called him a town read and was against his lynch - why should we have seen that one coming?

[Thor665]

Good find, MoS...though since you know for a fact I'm not scum...whassup?

[Thor665]

@Ant - I'll even go with - yes, RBers are much more valuable than neighborizers - so what?

@MoS - your attention helping out Emp from what you must know is conf. town Thor instead of trying to work on conf. scum Ant is noted as a sad experience of the day.

@Emp - are you cribbing MoS' answer there? Or did you have another?

[Thor665]

Explains his investigation was on ooba.

Note: Why not investigate dana, who you were content to vote almost to a lynch before swapping to hammer EP?

I'd like to see you cobble together an answer for this one Ant.

[Thor665]

@Rag - who is most likely scum pairs right now?

[Thor665]

I agree that MoS/Emp doesn't make a lot of sense with Ant still being alive. The worst I've got on them is how MoS leapt in to help Emp out when I was pressuring Emp, which is odd but I don't think it outweighs the wtf factor of Ant being alive if they're scum.

How are you getting over the ballsiness of Ant/Emp being the scumpair? One scum claiming cop with an innocent on the other is grapefruit sized ballsiness, and I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it. Thoughts?

[Thor665]

@Ant - only an idiot is debating Thor/Emp right now - the only real debate is Ant/Mos.

Thor and Emp are only in consideration because one of us appears to be the obligatory 2nd scum, but one of you is the first. I'm actually, statistically, least likely scum of Thor/Emp because everybody can see I'm 100% not scumbuddies with you. The real question is peeling back the Ant/MoS question - which Emp is not trying to do at all, and Rag is doing...well...about as functionally as I think she's ever done any scumhunting, so I really can't say she appears to be avoiding it.

Did you IIoA list accomplish anything for you there? You list a bunch of things, draw no conclusions, and toss in a touch of fearmongering at the end. What is our take away from that post?

[Thor665]

@Ant - why MoS and not me, by the by?

Also, what do you think happened Night 1 for kill targets?

@Rag - same question to you about Night 1 kill targets, though I'd like you to answer after Ant. (shouldn't be hard since he ought to log in and post at least twice before you do again

[Thor665]

Why would I end up dead with a cop, a cop claimed innocent, and the neighbor Vigs as alternate targets?

[Thor665]

GF Empking would have no reason to fear me.

Agreed.
Why wouldn't he want you dead though to at least make the day a 50/50 debate between town/scumbuddy Thor/MoS for the win?

As is he left you alive so you could bust his buddy so he could keep playing for another Day?

I'm very strongly thinking I'm going to vote Ant soon.

@Emp - why did you believe Ant right away with his MoS investigate?

[Thor665]

@Emp - why the change there?

[Thor665]

That Doctor Awesome guy, I'm not digging through my PMs to copy/pasta the name again.

@Rag - what do you think about Ant being alive today and the various reasons I've given for it and against it. You are the closest thing I have to confirmed town and I feel like you're leaving me alone with my dongle in the wind and a hopeful expression on my face. Please, bounce some stuff around for me a bit more, or at least advance some thoughts of your own for me to react to. Since you know the only possible way I am scum is with MoS you should have some pretty solid thoughts of your own, yeah?

[Thor665]

To sum up in short;

Worst thing against Ant is that he's alive - wtf?

Best thing about Ant is that he's actual town power.

The biggest wtf is my role, which really does have to be for something, and I can't fathom what. I really want there to be a Dayvig out there to have me make any sense whatsoever, but that does seem strange. Conversely - if we think scum are Daytargeting I actually confirm Ant which means we need to nail MoS.

So, in short;

If there's a Day kill power - I think it has to be you. You're some sort of weird odd night SK paired with town Vig and have a Daykill power you're saving to use later. In this setup MoS is the only remaining scum methinks.
If there's no Daykill power, than for my role to make any sense at all - scum have to Day kill and just have flips at night...? In which case I'm the reason Ant's alive and I'm actually confirming Ant due to the night 1 protect with no scum kill.
Third option is my role is total bastard bwu-ha-ha...in which case Ant looks confirmed simply because at that stage I'm actually a negative to town, and town does need some sort of payback, in which case the neighbor Vigs and Cop pair work out just fine, but wtf?

Anyone?
Bueller?

[Thor665]

It is not the first time a scum team realized that I am worth keeping around

Your defense is 'you suck'?

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!

[Thor665]

So you accept that I'm not scum?

[Thor665]

@Rag - I'm ducking out right now, but getting responses back from you appears to be aided by getting them in early;

You post appears to call;

MoS = scum
Thor= scum
Ant = scum but not for the reasons I've said so
Emp = null

Am I missing something here?

[Thor665]

In the event that MoS is scum I can only be partners with MoS. I have no other scum partners available - same as you.

[Thor665]

If Ant is scum it's Ant-Emp
If MoS is scum it's Emp-MoS since if Rag is scum she has to be an SK or I am super sad and hate mothrax.

Vote: Empking

The only way I'm wrong with this vote is if Rag is indeed an SK...or, I guess maybe Ant is an SK...whatever, the only way I'm wrong is if there's a theoretical Day killing SK super wtf role and there's only one scum left and it's MoS - in which case I encourage them to cross kill

[Thor665]

Well, I'll toss out - Ant could be scum bussing his buddy MoS, but...yeah, no.

[Thor665]

@MoS - ::cocked eyebrow of confused wtf-ness::

[Thor665]

Nothing mostly, though it's helping my thoughts for tomorrow.

But here's a counter; You know Ant is scum, you know I and Rag are not scum with him, so...lack of vote after I just laid down mine and Rag just made pretty clear that though she thinks Ant is scum she's uneasy with a MoS/Ant choice and happier with an Emp/MoS choice?

[Thor665]

The only way that makes sense is if you think Rag or I are self aligned - is that where you're going with this?

[Thor665]

Yeesh - and if we're self aligned, Antscum can't afford to make a 'scum' cop claim as there's no way it's 2 mafia + 1 self aligned at this stage, and solo Ant can't afford a wrong cop investigation.

You need to explain this, I'm too dumb to get it and MBF isn't here to translate.

[Thor665]

How does it make sense?
Let's break it down;

Ant is scum who has false claimed cop.
You are town neighborizer.

He claims guilty on you today for mislynch.

This is all information you know as FACT, yeah? What conclusions do we have now?

Neither Thor nor Rag are scum buddies with Ant - FACT, or they would have hammered for game win at this stage.
If Ant is solo scum, and Thor or Rag are independent, he cannot afford to claim a guilty result, because when you are lynched and flip town everyone will know he is scum and will lynch/kill him next Day/that Night - FACT.

So, we now know for a fact that Ant, if scum, has to have a partner.
We also know that Thor and Rag cannot be that partner.

So...what am I messing up again?

[Thor665]

So how about you hammer Empking than?

[Thor665]

The only way I'm wrong with this vote is if Rag is indeed an SK...or, I guess maybe Ant is an SK...whatever, the only way I'm wrong is if there's a theoretical Day killing SK super wtf role and there's only one scum left and it's MoS - in which case I encourage them to cross kill

[Thor665]

Ant did prove it's not Ant/MoS for...well...anyone dumb enough to have thought that was the deal...not that it ever actually made me wonder...totally not.

[Thor665]

Empking totally lurking out makes me pretty sure I'm right too.
Not.
A.
Peep.

[Thor665]

I'm not so sure that's legitimate evidence.

I also have a beard.

But, seriously, not a peep out of the guy? He posted in three different games since I posted my case on him and voted. That's not swinging in to check one game, that's three different games - he read that case and vote and said nothing.
Which means he's scum just hoping to lurk it through and see what happens.
Or.
Town who...seeing someone vote for him after there's a cop investigation and an 'obvious scum' has...nothing to say about it? Meh. Not really buying that.

[Thor665]

@Ant - 2 scum, MoS/Thor who decided to not kill the cop?
Please. <---sarcasm voice.

[Thor665]

And while we're at it - 2 scum MoS/Thor who both decided to hard bus the 3rd scum who was Roleblocker for 1-2 days straight?
Please. <--sarcasm voice tinged with suggestion that anyone who believes this is a player who is so far beneath my quality level it is laughable (and considering my quality level is around a not-so-bright rock, this is pretty low)

[Thor665]

Hey, Rag, which of us do you think they think is stupider and will bring with them to lylo?
For the record - I hope it's you, because in Dead QTs my calls are always 100% right

[Thor665]

@MoS - what changed your mind from voting obvious scum?

@Ant - what changed your mind from Thor is obvious enough town you'd be willing to hammer Emp to 'Thor/MoS - gg?'

[Thor665]

You just felt more resistant to it before - am I projecting?

[Thor665]

Also - I'm actually scum with Rag. So - lulz.

[Thor665]

I just wanted to see if I could get town to hammer a confirmed town.

[Thor665]

Seriously scum, you think I'm the dumb and gullible one?

...
...
...oh, wait, I think I am or I wouldn't be here.

So is someone just going to Daykill somebody? Because I (potentially) hate this setup.

You both managed to look town at the dana lynch and scummy at the Emp lynch - so bleh to you both.
I want to hear your cases on each other.
I want them not to be iso spectaculars - because I won't read those anyway.
Then I'll go ahead and unfold the total WIFOM *spectacular* that is happening inside my head right now.
Then I'll hammer one of you - or a Dayvig will cap me in the face or something and that will be all she wrote.

[Thor665]

It also explains why Ant called for the vigs to kill Empking AFTER he got an innocent result on him.

If the vigs had listened to him, Ant would have gotten points for calling the vig despite the innocent result, AND he would have bolstered his own cop claim by having a dead GF. Very clever.

How does that makes sense if Emp was a NK immune GF?

That said, you did tag onto the biggest dangling bit of WIFOMsoup I had - and that was that Emp was kill immune, not investigation immune.

So scum are;

Mafia Godfather (NK immune)
Mafia Roleblocker
Whatever Ant is (Goon?)

vs.

Useless Doc wtflolomgbbq role.
1 shot Neighborizer.
2 Neighbor/Vigs

Scum seem overpowered, yeah?

Other option is...

Scum;

Mafia Godfather (investigation immune)
Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Neighborizer

vs.

Cop
2 Neighbor/Vigs
Useless Doc wtflolomgbbq role.

Of course there's also the possibility that scum actually kill during the day and I really am a functional cop. If this is true than the reason there was no scum kill Night 1 is a little bit less because Rag suxx0rs and a little bit more because I actually protected Ant - this would also explain lack of a Cop kill after Ant claimed because scum would be all like, wtf, omg, Doc protections, kill the Doc, kill the Doc!

I HATE this setup.

I absolutely know my power is either just an insulting slap to the face or that scum day target or something - because the Vigs had no reason to lie so they clearly did regular night targeting.
Lack of Cop kill makes a lot of sense with belief in Doc and to set up Neighbor shenanigans.

I'm strongly leaning voting MoS.
In truth I've actually typed it up twice now in two different posts today and deleted it both times because;

1. I've actually been playing really well this game and have tagged 2 of 3 scum so don't want to frell it up.
2. Besides a bit of groaning about some of the kill shots from the neighbor vigs (and I stand by that groaning - hai Dead QT ) I actually think town played a pretty decent game this game as well and I really don't want to let them down by just sort of whipping out my e-peen and proclaiming how awesome I am.

It's like 1am my time and I have to be up early for work tomorrow, so I think this will wait till after a night's sleep and me being awake.

It'll probably be a MoS hammer though I'm thinking.

[Thor665]

I think it's obvious that you were doc hunting and wanted someone you investigated dead in order to lend some credence to your claim. The fact that I claimed my role was

confirmable

meant you knew I wasn't a doc, and you didn't try to kill me for fear that the doc would protect me.

Why would scum be so convinced of a need to Doc hunt?

[Thor665]

What response do you have to the fact that for me to be scum, I would have had to bus both of my more useful scumbuddies rather than them sacrificing me for the greater good? That I had a solid path to victory yesterday by just refusing to hammer Empking and I gave it up to lynch him? How do you explain that?

I would counter that if you "bussed" Empking it was the weakest and most pathetic bus ever - because it didn't really look like you wanted him dead despite having to know 100% he was scum.

I'm frankly flabbergasted that you're not seeing how Ant has to be scum at this point. I know it's not easy to see past the fake investigation, but everything else falls into place once you take the blinders off.

Yeah, this whole thing is blatantly obvious and I'm an idiot.
This from the guy who was slow to vote obv. scum Empking yesterday? Whut? Kiss my Smurf.

[Thor665]

So other than "he's scum, lawl!" should it be so super obvious Ant is scum that it's flabbergasting you that I'm not voting him?

You both worked over dana in basically the same way.
You both pathetic pushed Emp in the same way.
What am I missing as the lawlovbious moment of flabbergasting?

[Thor665]

a - point.
b - point.
c - point.
d - Because if you failed in the Thor vs. MoS competition (and I hardly think that was a lock) Emp would have been busted aterwards with the 'why is confirmed town alive' deal.
e - Especially if scum think I'm actually a functional Doc...which does tend to suggest she shot the scum target Night 1 (lawl at Rag!) Yeah, I can see that.

Okay, Ant, I'm totally like going to hammer you any second now unless you have a rebuttal.

[Thor665]

d (cont) - Not to mention - Vig at that point.

[Thor665]

@MoS - that's because I'm a flying Vatican assassin. I'm not explaining my thought process to you there because I know my logic is awesome and convoluted but true and clear for me and I see little value in trying to convince you that you're scum.

[Thor665]

Hating life.
Hating setup.
Hating mothrax

But I'll still love you Reck, in ways that are illegal in 37 of the states.

Okay, I've been sitting on this and being lazy and putting it off, but it's time for the coin toss.

Yaaaay!....?

Here's what basically sold me - three little things;

Just had this random thought while at work today...

If dana was the RB, and MoS was the neighborizer, wouldn't that make dana > MoS and scum would be more willing to save dana and cut the loss of the neighborizer?

But...

What are you trying to say here?

Thor took the dana route while Empking took the MoS->Magua->MoS->CDB->MoS->Dana route.
That is the reason why I investigated him that night. It looked like he wanted to protect dana any way possible.
*shrugs*

This is a waaay odd interaction if Ant and Emp are scumbuddies.
Ant goes out of his way to discuss how I look town, and also calls out sound logic for his Emp investigation.

GF Empking would have no reason to fear me.

Agreed.
Why wouldn't he want you dead though to at least make the day a 50/50 debate between town/scumbuddy Thor/MoS for the win?

As is he left you alive so you could bust his buddy so he could keep playing for another Day?

I'm very strongly thinking I'm going to vote Ant soon.

@Emp - why did you believe Ant right away with his MoS investigate?

Because he's Chuck the town Cop. He's town and he's right.

This is the other odd one (yeah, shoot me) but when Emp went and edited the post from this;
Because he's Chuck the town Cop. He's town and he's right.
to this
Because he's Chuck the town Cop.
I sorta feel like the $5 bingo point there is how he went back and took out the absolutes of 'he's town' which feels like a scumslip.

Also, and I'm not quoting these two, but I had an odd conversation where I was pressing Emp on why, even if he was the GF, it wasn't a good idea to kill Ant - and he kind of hemmed and hawed around and basically tried to assure me that if he was a GF he would kill Ant. Felt like an investigation immune GF there feeling caught out.
Second - that odd thing yesterday where I was piling into Emp and flippin' MoS rolled in to defend Emp from what must have been obv. town Thor to him. Just weird. Still sticks in my craw.

I'll add that MoS came really close I mean *really* close with the 'Ant brought you because Rag thought he was scum' thing. I've frelled up on those before, but I'm not sure I feel Rag was so clear in a kill Ant concept that it works. Meh - really what I'm learning is heading into lylo I should try to sound ridiculously sure of all my pairings. Bleh, my bad.
Also, MoS just had...well, a few too many angles covered in my book. It felt like he'd written up the case situation already, and though...yeah...he knew he was going to be alive, but it felt a little more canned, like he had it ready to go.

If I'm wrong *DEEPEST* apologies to the town, my Smurf.

Vote: MoS

Also, I hate this setup.
Also, I really hope town won.
Also, I hate my role.

[Thor665]

I didn't make a mistake that time - you still need to work on looking more town

Awesome though, I do happy dance (>'-')> <('-'<) ^(' - ')^ <('-'<) (>'-')>
Lylo is waaaaay too stressful.

[Thor665]

I'm happier to see you in playlists than a fair variety of people, so I'm actually pretty sure you're up to 'let's not policy lynch him Day 1' level

@MoS - you are a bastich. You hit my NKimmune GF WIFOM hangup *and* my 'why was Rag killed and not Thor' hangup all in one post. You were working me like a champ. Excellent play.

[Thor665]

Man, this might even be my best game ever alignment call wise - I called all three scum, and despite my rage debate hangup with MBF when I thought he was the scum Dayvig messing with me I was pretty accurate in my town calls as well. I'm taking a picture and hanging this one on my wall.

[Thor665]

I just want to have Reck come in and make it official.
Because if Ant is toying with me (as I would him) I will officially cry (manfully) into my beard.

[Thor665]

Yea, when Reck posts the QTs you'll see that I *did* expect Ant to investigate me and I *did* expect to be lynched yesterday. Goddamn if I didn't put some effort into it, though. I'm really disappointed how my scumbuddies folded this game. If they had played even an iota better, we probably would have steamrolled. This setup was really dumb though, the mafia roles were weak as Smurf and also WTFTHORROLECLAIM.

Well, on the flip side I wanted you dead all the way back at that *horrible* MBF/mass claim day when town sort of ran around squawking like chickens for a while.

That said, yeah, you had a few moments of really excellent play and it was not an easy choice there at the end. I don't think you would have got me to vote for Ant yesterday though - I was pretty focused on Emp early on and wasn't easing off of him much. I can't speak for Rag's thoughts...though I never could at any point in this game

Did you guys shoot RC? Or am I actually some sort of Doc and you shot Ant?

[Thor665]

@MoS - you are a bastich. You hit my NKimmune GF WIFOM hangup *and* my 'why was Rag killed and not Thor' hangup all in one post. You were working me like a champ. Excellent play.

I stand by this too, MoS - you came *really* close to selling me today.

[Thor665]

So my role was quite literally just a wtfomglol role?

What the frell? I actually *sweated* some of those DayDoc choices!

Yeah, the Pere mislynch day was a bad day on multiple levels and was also totally town's low point, shoulda been you for the axe but I think I burned up too much town cred looking for Dayvigs I will note, the setup would be kinda busted up with a Scum win Day 3 after only 2 mislynches, though I've been told the counter arguement is 'bad Vig choices is bad for town' but I'm sort of negative on a town performing well being sunk by Vig shots.

[Thor665]

Emp - pretty heavily leaning town, would not support his lynch today at all.

MBF needs to come and remind me how obv. town Rag is - I'm starting to squint enough that Emp's case is looking good - and that scares me.

I agree that MoS/Emp doesn't make a lot of sense with Ant still being alive.

Man, this might even be my best game ever alignment call wise - I called all three scum, and despite my rage debate hangup with MBF when I thought he was the scum Dayvig messing with me I was pretty accurate in my town calls as well. I'm taking a picture and hanging this one on my wall.

History is written by the winners, I suppose.

But yeah, red herring role was stupid and original mod sucked.

You're telling me I wasn't instrumental in bagging all three scum? Go back and look at the lead and decision on each and be honest about it.
Also - you did quote at least one comment I made that was intentionally false for the sake of eliciting response - you did seem to take me too literally most of the game. I had more than a few times I started barking up wrong trees mid day - I'll happily admit that, but by end day, every day but Day 1, I wanted to lynch scum and avoid lynching town - and that's what matters.

Also, I'm winning, so I'm writing over here

So, seriously, what was the point of the secret powers extra fake claim as Vig thing? That really threw me for a loop and I still don't get the point.

[Thor665]

@Reck

- I'll say nice things about you too if we get scum and dead QT links.

[Thor665]

Booooo! No Dead QT, boooo!

[Thor665]

You've never seen one? They're awesome - basically all the dead players get a commentary thread after death so they can keep commenting on the game.
As everyone becomes a confirmed mason with inside knowledge as the scum and mod drop hints they suddenly start bandying about phrases like 'Why is town throwing it away!?!' and 'It's so obvious, player 'X' is an idiot!' with reckless abandon. They're awesome.

[Thor665]

@MBF/Pere - are we going to get to see the Neighbor Vig QT?

[Thor665]

I agree with MBF that you should have osted more of your thoughts from that QT in thread - would have eased up issues with you a lot Day 3.
I disagree with MBF that the town was useless (some of us just had paranoia because our role was designed to frell with our head)

@MBF - really, I can't believe you bought into that Magua vote so much. Obv. reaction fishing was...not obv.? I'm also a little surprisedyour issues with me didn't ease up when I explained the dana vote clearer - was it not obvious I was leaping off Rag just at your request?

[Thor665]

I was pretty pissed through most of the game because I was actually trying to play my best and it seemed like I was alone. I had to goad Rag to post in the thread, you wouldn't stop focusing on getting a claim out of me, and that stupid Serial Killer discussion persisted even after I was dead.

I do apologize for any take of insult you felt for me - up until you just started calling me a douche over and over I was never attempting to be personal at all. When I "hammered" you it was because you'd actually pissed me off though, I admit. I actually felt I was the only one trying at that point

The entire reason for my push on you was that weird Vig+ thing. If you'll note - I'd called you town Day 1, and I called your Vig came a town one on Day 3, and then...you claimed that you hadn't full claimed and I suddenly was on you like white on rice. Basiclaly I became convinced your 'plus' was going to be Dayvig and I wanted to out you so I could bust scum. If you'd left yourself at just Vig I don't think any of the you/me issues would have happened except you being annoyed at me calling all your Vig shots terrible
I'm still curious why you did that Vig+ business - was there a strategy there?

What was up with that 4th day, anyway? Ant claims a guilty on MoS, so one of them is obviously scum, and you go off and lynch Empking. I don't get it.

Magua hit this pretty clear. I sussed out the illogic of the Ant/MoS pair, and at that stage I knew that the *only* possible partner for MoS was Emp or Rag, and Rag had proved herself as 'not scum' via generating a kill. At that point Emp became the logical kill target as the only other possible setup was that MoS was scum and Rag was Vig/SK - and I "protected" Ant and pointed out how they'd need to cross kill to win to try and mess with them that way.
But Emp had dropped enough stuff that it became pretty clear he was scum to either Ant or MoS - so I could either play 50/50 or I could hit basically confirmed scum. I'm a pretty cowardly guy so I went for the easy one and sort of hoped maybe they'd kill me and force Rag to make the tougher pick

"Dude you double posted, except your second post was different. That could be bad... "

MoS spotted and got nervous about everything I was catching - awesome.
Really hope you and I are on the same side next game.

[Thor665]

Greetings

Thor665

, You are Devon “Captain Awesome” Woodcomb (Day Doctor)

Abilities:
Doctor Awesome – You are so awesome you can save lives in broad daylight. At any point during the day phase you may send me a message containing the name of a player whom you would like to protect. Any attempts on that person’s life made during the day will be stopped.

You win when all threats to the Intersect are eliminated
Please confirm via PM with the name of your ability
The Thread is Here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=17331

I submitted the name of my ability as 'Stress Generator' I was pretty accurate.

My actions were;

Day 1 - protect Ant
Day 2 - no action submitted
Day 3 - protect Ant...though I sent it to mothrax and not Reck...bleh
Day 4 - protect Ant
Day 5 - no action submitted