Chuck Season 1 - GAME OVER

[dramonic]

No problem!
reading up.

[dramonic]

...
I'm gonna assume nobody is really buying into MBF not being a serial killer.

MoS and Rag are most probably town, as is ant. we can assume from there that Emp is prob town as he's been investigated.

That leaves Thor and PeregrineV as the mafia.

Unvote
Vote: PeregrineV

My oh my, what a difficult resolution <_<

[dramonic]

Technically since all three are scum it doesn't matter, but i can understand how from an outside perspective you'd think there's a risk.
Actually there's one, that that Emp is a gf.

Unvote
Vote: mikeburnfire

[dramonic]

@Dramonic-Using your logic, since I'm town, that would leave you and Thor as mafia, which Thor denies. See how that works?

Yes
your point?

@Rag: Give me one good reason to want to keep MBF alive.
Just one.

[dramonic]

I know, he's a SK.
Not a reason I want him alive.

[dramonic]

Why is he more likely to be a vig than a sk?
SEKRIT INFO?

[dramonic]

Considering his aim so far, I doubt the scum has a specific interest in offing him.
He's a SK, what's to say he's not BP? That way he lives, and oh joy, mafia can't go "HE'S BP!" because that... would be outing themselves.
It also explains the lack of a scum kill night 1.
And the town usually doesn't want to lynch their vig, so it wouldn't be attracting votes if he played it a bit better

[dramonic]

what... wagon...?

[dramonic]

I know THAT. <_<

[dramonic]

By painting a target on your back?
suuuuure!

[dramonic]

It's also the kind of stuff someone who wants to get their partner killed without looking suspicious would do, in theory.

[dramonic]

@Dramoric:

Why would he want me killed? I think he's town.

We've got a cop and another confirmed townie alive, and it's just as likely or more likely that the mafia would kill him before me anyway.

@Thor: No, the information isn't pro-town, he's saying that revealing it will hurt the town. If you think he's town, then you should trust him. It's incredibly likely that he's town, which is what i've been trying to demonstrate.

clearing himself from your death while at the same time attracting it isn't novelty.
We have a cop alive.
your "confirmed townie" could also be a godfather.

You're the only person who seems to believe he's town. Start from there.

[dramonic]

I can't give you anymore information without giving away Rag's role

That sounds so TOWN!
Wait no it doesn't.

[dramonic]

I didnt really read the whole of the game. Why am I an acceptable wagon when we have a mostly outed SK?

[dramonic]

hey look, he's a bulletproof vig!
...can we lynch now? -_-

[dramonic]

I'm trying to understand what part of "neighbor vig with assassination for a flavor who drops info he won't tell in a hope to live longer when he really doesn't have extra info" is too town for Ant or MoS (ironically the OTHER neighbors) to hammer.
No really, what the hell is this?

@MBF: You've defended yourself from the SK accusations... how exactly? Also you're saying Rag is playing some great game in the QT, but here all she's done is go "dont bother mbffffffffffffffff!" so do everyone a favor and if you're not going to drop dead like you should switch her around and spout her useless stuff in the QT and hunt in the thread, kthx.

[dramonic]

Quite frankly, I can't believe how ridiculous this has gotten. Dram and Thor are either idiots or scum, perhaps both.

Probably neither.

We're here, trying to figure out who the scum are, and I tell you that I have information that implies that Rag is town. Suddenly, you bring the game to a standstill until I full claim. If this game really is "stalling", it's because you're stalling it.

Translation: I COULD confirm Rag, and I'll say I can, but I won't do it.
Super pro-town move!

I wasn't under any suspicion at the time of my vig claim. In fact, everybody seemed to be confused about who killed who. A serial killer would have taken advantage of this confusion. I claimed in order to clear it up.

Rag was under suspicion at the time of my vig claim. I risked my neck to vouch for her towniness, and am sticking by it, something a serial killer would not do.

Everybody was talking about how Magua and RC were obv town, and that anyone who killed them is probably scum. I claimed to be their killer. Is this a smart SK move?

So I heard of this thing, it's called innovation. Ever heard of it? It's often affiliated with WIFOM.

I'm standing firm. I can't give you anymore information without giving away Rag's role (hint: not vanilla).

From my perspective there are only two possible logical options here, both of them make absolutely zero sense from a balance PoV if you're town, but make a shitload of it if you're scum/SK. Since it's in fashion, I won't say what they are, since it might give away Rag's role.

Either you believe me to be town and take me at my word that Rag is highly likely to be town too, or go against everything logical and waste a lynch on me.

Your "everything logical" is you saying you have a reason to believe she is town. Scumhunting and blindly taking you at your word is NOT logical. I don't think you're town, I think you're a SK. If by any chance you flip scum, all the freakin better, but that's unlikely since you claimed the extra kills.

I'll be very blunt.
If you're scum, I want you dead.
If you're SK, I want you dead.
If you're town and lying, you're an idiot and deserve to die
If you're town and truthful, your death will guarantee Rag a safe spot in lategame, assuming she doesn't get violently slaughtered by the scum (and if she does that's your fault for painting the biggest friggin target ever on her back)

If we choose not to lynch you and you're SK, we're in prisoner dilemna. If we choose not to lynch you and you're town, I still won't have any solid reason to trust your read on Rag because your play has been pretty damn fucked up from my own perspective for a pro-town role.

Basically, if you're town and won't tell me why I should believe you, then I'd much rather have you die as your flip will give me a reason with the extra bonus of not having to worry about you being a SK or a potential prisoner dilemna.
If you're a serial killer, you're too close to your wincon for me to not take the risk.
If you're town, we're not quite close enough to a loss for me to consider the risk too steep.

[dramonic]

Oh, and you want to know what helps town - knowing things.
What hurts town? Being confused and in the dark about things.
This is a very important day in the game and MBF is playing "neener, neener, I've got a secret" which is so drastically anti-town I would love to describe internet tough guy things I would do to him in person.

Honest opinion, I can easily imagine what kind of mysterious stuff he wants to hide from the town AS town.
Except I won't believe in it until I have a reason to think he's not a serial killer (barring his WIFOM).

And the two ways that happens is if Ant checks him (and even then that's debatable) or if he dies.
And we have no guarantee that Ant will not die tonight anyways.
And he's been a pretty lousy shot so far as vig
And if he's SK and we don't lynch him we're in PD tomorrow.

He's a player whose death will either confirm someone as town or insure we dont go hitting PD tomorrow

[dramonic]

I'm against a mass-claim right now.
Also for clarity's sake, if your great secret is anything like what I envision, it's absolutely irrelevant to my desire to lynch you. Actually if it's anything like what I envision I'd rather lynch you without you saying it in case you flip town

[dramonic]

Would "town has waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much power" be a decent reason to think you're a serial killer?

Or would "you have a kill and somehow can confirm yourself to a role build specifically to avoid confirmation" be?
Or would "two town players sharing a kill is insanely powerful, add to that the fact that AFAWK follow the cop WORKS HERE" be?

Your claim timing may be off for a serial killer, every other sign in the game point there.

[dramonic]

cop, vig, neighborizer, mystery role x, protector of sort.
that's a lot.

@Rag: Do you have ANY reason to believe MBF is town outside of personal read?

[dramonic]

If you think MBF is a serial killer, your vote on me is pretty fail <_<

[dramonic]

If you had figured this out you'd be voting MBF.

[dramonic]

Dram, why shouldn't we kill you? (aka I believe it is time to claim)

I said that already.
Because if MBF is a serial killer and you lynch me you put yourself in prisoner's dilemna.
This is not just me though.

I'm basically saying any lynch outside of MBF is poor play right now.
I think the scum is probably Thor and Peregrine, but since there could be a godfather I'm not advocating any of their lynches, because on the 33% chance the one I choose to pursue flips town and MBF IS a serial killer, town can't win anymore.

Meanwhile, if we lynch MBF now, he'll flip town or SK.
If he flips town, we're in MyLo, you have an extra investigation, we no lynch, you have ANOTHER investigation (provided whatever blocked a kill N1 is gracious enough to keep you alive some more)
If he flips SK, it's the same as above unless MBF was bulletproof and thus you die.

If we lynch outside of MBF
He was SK, we hit town, he does too, town loses.
He was SK, we hit town, he hits scum, same as today
He was SK, we hit scum, he hits scum, we lynch him
He was SK, we hit scum, he doesn't, see scenario 2
He was vig, we hit town, he hits town, LyLo
He was vig, we hit town, he hits scum, See scenario 2
He was vig, we hit scum, he hits town, See scenario 2
He was vig, we hit scum, he hits scum, we win
He was vig we hit town he doesnt shoot, MyLo
He was vig we hit scum he doesn't shoot, basically see scenario 2


TL:DR
If MBF flips SK we're in good shape
If MBF flips vig we're at worst in MyLo
If we mislynch and he's SK at worst we lose
If we mislynch and he's vig it's the same as today
if we lynch and he's sk it's the same as today
if we lynch and he's vig it's the same as today

I'll take scenario 1 or 2 over scenario 3 through 6, thank you very much.

If someone OTHER than ant wants me to claim i will

@Ant: Investigating Rag is baaaaaaaaaaad play

[dramonic]

And you got that stat... where?

[dramonic]

Because two "bad guy+town guy" neighborhoods would be... odd.

[dramonic]

2 town PR in a neighborhood that can somehow confirm each other is not balanced Peregrine.
It's poor design and adding a scum neighbour will never be enough to counteract that.

Let's assume MoS is scum for a second.
We have a mafia RB, a mafia Neighborizer.
We have a cop, a doc of sort, a vig and a mysterious role (at least), the two latter apparently being able to cross-confirm, so essentially masons.
I would love to see you come up with a final scum role to counteract such a ridiculous town.

[dramonic]

Yet MBF is calling Rag 100% town and Rag seems to think the same of him.
And WTF is a babyface mafia?

[dramonic]

...lol

[dramonic]

Really? Cop + Doc + Vig Neighbour + Neighbour is ridiculously powerful. Godfather + Roleblocker + Neighbourizer don't really come close to balancing it.

Preview: I think he means investigation immune godfather.

Yes to investigation immune.

So, what you are implying is Cop+ Doc +Vig Neighbour + Neighborizer is less powerful than GF +RB + neighbor?
Can you elaborate on what you feel the town set-up might be, because it appears you are merely steering us away from a possiblity without presenting others.

I said the opposite. If all the listed roles are town, I'll eat my hat (or hair since I lack a hat), because there's nothing to counterbalance such a town.

Do you think the neighborizer MoS is town? or Scum?
Is Neighbor MBF town vig or scum vig or SK?
Does MBF alignment affect Rag alignment?
Is Neighbor Rag town or scum?

Town
SK
no, Rag is town regardless
See above.

EDIT: Exactly what Emp said.

[dramonic]

EBWOP: With potential for another PR, possibly.

[dramonic]

actually nvm, if the SK is bulletproof no extras.

[dramonic]

Don't forget that Rag is also some sort of PR.
Skimmed your theory on SK plan. It did make me rethink things.

That's an argument in MBF-SK's favor, trust me I haven't forgotten.

[dramonic]

Thor, why are you a PR and voting me?

[dramonic]

massclaim right now seems a bit pre-emptive.

[dramonic]

I'm pretty sure I called both you and Thor scum in my first post, so that's at least 1 PR who's not town.

I also have been spending all my posts saying that MBF is a SK, which PROBABLY means I don't think he's a town PR.
Christ, you're way too good at this whole reading thing.

[dramonic]

roleblocker, goon and potentially a godfather.
neighborizer is one-shot and not that great as its a shot in the dark as town.
cop would have the roleblocker to contend with, so depending on Moth's balance process (even though BP SK is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad), he might've put a GF too.
Speculating about the required role to counter a role that hasn't been outed is pretty lulzy.

@Thor: If you're a PR and Rag's a PR and Ant's a PR and MoS' a PR and MBF is a PR, you might want to consider thinking that there is CLEARLY someone lying in there.

Rag and Ant and (from your PoV) yourself are obviously not lying.
Leaves MoS and MBF, with MBF's claim being vastly more unlikely to belong to town than MoS'

I can somewhat understand how you PoEd down to me, but I fail to see how the lynch of a scumread can outpriorize the lynch of a player who spells PD the moment the town fucks up any lynch.

[dramonic]

Well, I understand it from your scum agenda

[dramonic]

Hish, sounds crappy
Well, once you have some time read up and vote MBF!

[dramonic]

Thor is a narcissistic douche, and having dramonic is like listening to it in stereo.

Hey now, I didn't drive the crap for that claim of yours in.
Don't be so sore <_<

And the game is really not lost, it's MyLo tomorrow.

[dramonic]

skeptical

[dramonic]

"dad, he's being meeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan to me!"

Are you two done yet?

[dramonic]

But you're already full-claimed <_<

[dramonic]

You want me to initiate a massclaim im not in favour of

really?

[dramonic]

If we get a majority for the claim I'll oblige.

[dramonic]

it's not specifically amazing
anyways

Jeffery Barns, VT

[dramonic]

. . .

[dramonic]

unvote

I need to think.

[dramonic]

Kill: Peregrine
Dayvig: Peregrine
Murder: Peregrine
Assassinate: Peregrine
Vigkill: Peregrine
Vig: Peregrine
Eliminate: Peregrine

[dramonic]

you werent obv from my perspective. Under the assumption your role is factual Peregrine is pretty obv town.

[dramonic]

obv scum is what i meant. playing RL mafia here, stuff gets confused in my head.

[dramonic]

unvote
vote: Peregrine

I really think we're dealing with an SK between Rag and MBF.

[dramonic]

unvote
vote: peregrine

Thor still most probably needs a bullet

[dramonic]

I pretty much already stated that I believe the scum are you, peregrine and a SK between our two neighbor vigs.