Team Mafia: White Flag Mafia
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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Vote: mith
Wow. It's not everyday when I can say something like that.-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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1. Equinox, threats aren't the best way to get your voice heard. I had just posted my RVS vote.
2. I agree with you on InflatablePie and his preference for being scum.
3. Question for you: Why focus on IP and not other players with strong scumgames who Llamarble mentioned? Sotty, DGB, Thor and mith (from what I recall) all have strong scum games and you hadn't really focused on talking about them.
Unvote, Vote: InflatablePie
Preview edit: SP became town with that post. I'm going to be looking at the 6 aforementioned people at the moment (Sotty, DGB, Thor, mith, IP, Equinox).-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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LlamaFluff wrote:Vote Equinox
Very unrandom. There is no backing to an IP wagon as herp-derping is not a scumtell, just a competence one. Equinox is pushing it more then "random wagon" on something like this being a tell.
Other good votes are marble and Klazam.
You're denying that meta's important in a variation of mafia like this? Meta couldn't be more important, and especially in RVS. I know that's taboo to say, but 90% of the comments so far have been on meta, strengths and weaknesses because teams can choose their roles. It may not be valid in the future, but it was the quickest way to get out of RVS.-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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I'm not denying that Equinox could be scum, however, it's weird that you believe that it's an Equinox-IP team due to Equinox's behavior, yet you won't vote for or mention IP and instead debunk the wagon. Why?
Also, if the point of RVS is to leave it, why is it better to discount meta? RVS ends in other games due to meta all the time, why is this time any different?-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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Anyways, you agree with me about Equinox. Wagon up?
What? No, I said I wasn't denying the fact that hecouldbe scum.
FoS: LlamaFluff-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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LlamaFluff wrote:Equinox wrote:I'm wagoning someone I strongly believe to be scum. Am I not allowed to get people to stop pulling unreadable crap like, "Hey, mith is here; let's vote him for lulz!" and be accountable to a wagon? Besides, I was not baiting hammers; if you'll notice, I didn't bait votes after Klazam's. Sorry if I don't like posting threshold warnings.
But you are in a very active game trying to get multiple people to vote someone who you think to be at L-2 by specifically addressing three people?
You are fine trying to shut down a random wagon in the place of a "legitimate" one, but when you refuse to say why its a random wagon instead of just saying that someone is scum because of 'secret reasons', you arent going to get any backing, or at least shouldnt. The fact that you DID get backing makes me think the IP wagon is a great spot to look for scum. The arguement of "IP should be lynched due to alignment prefrence" is weak, and doesnt hold any water too past a RVS stage, and you need to actually bring that information to light, BEFORE you think someone is hammered, to have it qualify.
Klazam wrote:
Why sarcasm is scummy: Sarcasm is a basic psychological mechanism for deflecting attention off oneself. Something pretty useful in mafia, and one i see in IRL mafia all the time.
I never have found this to be the case, usually I see it more of a frustration with a player response.
I noticed you didn't even pretend that "You totally agreed with me on Equinox, now vote her" statement didn't even exist. I expected a response.
Unvote, Vote: LlamaFluff. Maybe this will convince you.-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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EBWOP: Didn't even pretend that it existed. It's late and I worked today bussing tables sooooo-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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LlamaFluff wrote:DemonHybrid wrote:I noticed you didn't even pretend that "You totally agreed with me on Equinox, now vote her" statement didn't even exist. I expected a response.
Thought it was more of a rhetorical statement.
You saying "Im not denying he could be scum" sounds like "I dont think he is town" which means "He is scum". I like people agreeing with me, even if its just in my head.
What kind of excuse is that? I thought my terminology was very clear.
Oh, and a townie would have noticed an FoS and explained him/herself on the get-go instead of needing a vote prompt. I even bolded my FoS, nice and clear, so that you could get the hint.-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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DH's posts are odd. In the post where he votes me, 1. he sort of slings a small bit of mud onto Equi by asking why he's concentrating on me but not the other people with strong scum games (which is implying I have a strong scum game and I really don't think I do btw ). 2. His next important posts says that Equi could be scum... yet he's still voting for me, and my wagon was a wagon pushed by Equi. 3. He does mention later that this doesn't necessarily mean he thinks Equi is scum. So his statement iseither obvious(because everyone could be scum) or he was just saying that to fall back on if there's an Equi wagon later.
1. I never posted any suspicion on Equinox. I'm not calling her obv or confirmed town, however. In light of this, I'm going to ask questions to gain every little bit of reasoning.
2. EVERYONE could be scum. That's my point. I'm just not discounting Equinox.
3. Read the bolded. It was supposed to be obvious and it's something Llama completely passed over.
EBWOP: DH also jumped ship on the mith RVS wagon when mine gained momentum and is now on the LlamaFluff wagon once Equi starts pushing for him, leaving mine when Equi jumps ship and some of the suspicion on me seems to drop.
Don't like how this is an afterthought, for the record.
My mith vote was RVS because 1. I had just come back from work and saw that the game was underway, so I didn't read it and felt like I needed to get a vote out.
2. After reading it, Equinox had a good point.
Pie, I know you're smarter than this. Are you trying to fabricate stuff?
LlamaFluff: You also ignored my last statement/question directed towards you.-
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Thor665 wrote:Wooosh.
I agree with Equi about Chris, town read there.
I'm liking the Llama brothers thus far, though it's weaker.
Equi is working really hard, if scum, and I don't buy that.
I still like Pie for the rope - the buzzing bee who thinks sarcasm is 'srs tell, srsly' and Mith also go on my scum list.
Let's lynch one of them, I still have dibs on a Mith hammer.
Why mith? You hadn't mentioned a thing about him before this post other than "I want the hammer if there's a wagon", and that was during an apparent RVS for you. What changed?-
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Equinox wrote:EBWOP:
On second thought, let's roll with this.
Unvote, Vote: SocioPath
I'm going to let the thread breathe now.
Why? Do you really read Socio's motivation as scum-driven?
I can't get a clear read on Klazam yet. I'm going to be keeping an eye on him.
DGB not posting as often is making me a bit skeptical. Pie, Llama and her can be considered on my scumlist at the moment.-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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I skimmed my wall and realized I forgot to add this. It's not an afterthought.
Aye, alright.
No, I think I'm right this time. This smells faintly of AtE, by the way.
AtE? Why? By that logic, anyone who's accused other people of lying or implied such has used AtE. You just basically used a boilerplate term without even regarding the meaning of it.
Yes, you did. By asking why he's concentrating on one player who's doing something and not everyone else, it's a mix of pseudo-defending the one player in question, and trying to discredit the attacking player's argument and cast suspicion on them for doing such.
I also questioned about 4 other people and I never posted suspicion on them. The only people who I posted suspicion on were you, Llama and DGB for lurking. You ask questions to gain information and modify reads based on that. I really don't get anything that you're saying, because this is elementary stuff you're screwing up.
As for your other two points, stating the obvious is a scumtell (see: IIoA).
Except I was clarifying that I wasn't suspecting Equinox, since that came up in conversation in regards to a potential Equinox-IP team. It fit the context and it definitely wasn't out of nowhere, so I don't get your claim of IIoA.
Plus, I don't like your defense of "I meant to post this! it was a trap for Llama!" (by the way, I want to ask everyone to use full names so we don't get the two Llamas confuse)
I never said it was a trap for LlamaFluff and you completely misrepresented my statement on that.
I understand the mith wagon, even in your case, falls under RVS. However, it was your vote that made it a competing RVS wagon at 3 votes each, and when that one didn't gain, you jumped onto mine. Scummy.
I didn't even read the amount of votes that mith had before I posted a vote on him. I literally clicked the thread, hit reply and said "Vote: mith. Not everyday I can do that." to get a placeholder RVS vote out until I could read. Equinox told me to read her logic, I did, and I agreed with it.
No, he's voting for him because he thinks Socio is town.
So, I'm guessing you don't find "Do you see any scum-motivation behind his posting, and if so, why?" as a valid question and I haven't the slightest as to why you think that. I think it's a very fair and valid question.
Your "suspicion" really has no basis, IP.
Preview Edit to Thor: Gotchya, just wanted clarification on that.-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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DemonHybrid wrote:1. Equinox, threats aren't the best way to get your voice heard. I had just posted my RVS vote.
2. I agree with you on InflatablePie and his preference for being scum.
3. Question for you: Why focus on IP and not other players with strong scumgames who Llamarble mentioned? Sotty, DGB, Thor and mith (from what I recall) all have strong scum games and you hadn't really focused on talking about them.
Unvote, Vote: InflatablePie
Preview edit: SP became town with that post. I'm going to be looking at the 6 aforementioned people at the moment (Sotty, DGB, Thor, mith, IP, Equinox).
Question without suspicion #1
DemonHybrid wrote:Thor665 wrote:Wooosh.
I agree with Equi about Chris, town read there.
I'm liking the Llama brothers thus far, though it's weaker.
Equi is working really hard, if scum, and I don't buy that.
I still like Pie for the rope - the buzzing bee who thinks sarcasm is 'srs tell, srsly' and Mith also go on my scum list.
Let's lynch one of them, I still have dibs on a Mith hammer.
Why mith? You hadn't mentioned a thing about him before this post other than "I want the hammer if there's a wagon", and that was during an apparent RVS for you. What changed?
Question without suspicion #2
DemonHybrid wrote:Equinox wrote:EBWOP:
On second thought, let's roll with this.
Unvote, Vote: SocioPath
I'm going to let the thread breathe now.
Why? Do you really read Socio's motivation as scum-driven?
Question without suspicion #3
Alright, well 3 times and 2 people, but you get the point. Everyone who I question is NOT my suspect. You're a veteran of mafia and I expect you to know better.-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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Yeah, really. I'm in a ton of games at the moment, it was only page 2 and half of the first page posts were confirms. Figured it didn't matter.-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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You know me personally. You're my friend on FB and we've played offsite before multiple times. By saying "you're smarter than this", that's a form of appealing to my emotions. Of course, I should know you know better than to try that with me, but Occam's Razor is making my thoughts stop there.
Actually, it's pointing out that your case is full of fallacies and is really quite false, and you are a definite competent player. There's a lot in the case that you've assumed that just isn't true. I'm not trying to appeal to you. Just pointing out the wrong.
You're not getting my point. It's not the questioning part, it's the "BUT LOOK AT ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE, AND YOU'RE SINGLING ONE PERSON OUT" part.
Yeah, but I stated that question without suspicion and was waiting for an answer.
You said "everyone can be scum". That's like me going around saying "everyone can be town", or "people vote for other people", or "scum can talk at night". It's obvious and isn't really content.
But it was an assisting part of my point. If I sat here with one post and went "Oh, anyone could be scum or town. Anyway, back to not posting anything", yeah, you'd have a valid point, but it's like you don't even realize I had a whole other 95% of the post that dealt with other things.
It was supposed to be obvious and it's something Llama completely passed over.
This statement was talking about this:
DemonHybrid wrote:Anyways, you agree with me about Equinox. Wagon up?
What? No, I said I wasn't denying the fact that hecouldbe scum.
FoS: LlamaFluff
Not the one you're talking about. A bit of a miscommunication there. This:
I'm not denying that Equinox could be scum, however, it's weird that you believe that it's an Equinox-IP team due to Equinox's behavior, yet you won't vote for or mention IP and instead debunk the wagon. Why?
Was also not meant to be a trap. It was a legitimate question. I never said anything was a trap; I even stated the opposite.
I don't care. There was a VC posted shortly after your vote: you at least HAD to have seen that before changing your vote to me. Right after Klazam switched sides, too.
Or, because I hit reply, voted mith, walked away from my computer, came back, read up to Equinox's threat and then posted and agreed with her on you. Just as I said.
Except obviously he does, and that's why he's voting him. Seriously DH, that question was the epitome of active lurking. Or was at least very very stupid.
DH wrote:"Do you see any scum-motivation behind his posting,and if so, why?"
1. I wanted the why more than anything.
2. I wanted to clarify the suspicion on Socio so that it was clearly understood.
You're beating a dead horse.
Question for you, DH. If you're not part of the scum on my wagon, then who is? Preferably in order of most likely to least likely, thanks.
I have scumreads that I have stated. I'm not going to analyze wagons quite yet; I'm focusing on behaviors and logical fallacies. I suspect no one on your wagon, since DGB and Llama are not on it.
@DH - Then you should stop making your posts sound like statements instead of actual questions. There is nothing else to answer though, your first question sounded like a statement, so I ignored it.
DH wrote:What kind of excuse is that? I thought my terminology was very clear.
This is also looking like a response. When someone makes a challenging and valid statement against someone else's play, the normal thing to expect is a response, yet you completely ignored it. Even if they aren't phrased as direct questions, you at least havesomethingto say, right?-
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DrippingGoofball wrote:Thor665 wrote:I agree with Equi about Chris, town read there.
I'm interrupting my reading to answer this. I don't agree. Could be a alt faking the nO0b card, I don't know. Maybe he's from a weak team. I will judge him on his own merit.
Do you think that someone would create an alt just to start out faking the noob card? I'm finding that hard to believe.-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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DH, don't think I'm letting you out of my sights either. Just diverting my attention. Although, to clarify, you don't suspect ANYONE on my wagon? Despite it being a L-2 RVS wagon? Is it impossible that there was scum on my wagon?
Like I've said: You, Llama and DGB are on my scumlist. We don't have a flip, and therefore, wagon information is useless at this point. That isn't to say that voting behavior should be looked at, but it shouldn't be the main focus.
mith wrote:DemonHybrid - 45 is just weird. Points 1 and 3 look out of place in a post where he ends up voting InflatablePie, and point 2 (presumably the reason for that vote) is agreement with something Equinox never said. Then comes the discussion with LlamaFluff (and later InflatablePie), during which I'm noticing a big hole that needs filling:
DemonHybrid, what do you think of Equinox? You've talked an awful lot about her without actually saying anything about your read on her.
First of all, at the moment, I'm fine with Equinox. If I had suspected her, I would have said something about it. She's doing a heavy amount of scumhunting and she's making a lot of sense. I asked her about the other people who play strong scum games to clarify my read on her, and #49 was a strong townish response. I believe I have the right to agree with a point, even though I don't have a specific read on a person.-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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Sorry, I hit submit before it was finished.
Pie, your wagon was followed with a vote from you onto yourself. I don't think that a wagon like that has a lot of worth looking at. I'm busy with other things.
mith, second of all, what was odd about my exchange with LlamaFluff?-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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Here, just to humor you, I tallied up the wagon when you were L-1:
InflatablePie (6): Equinox, Thor, Llamarble, Klazam, DH, IP
This was on page 3. Equinox reads off town to me, as does Thor. Llamarble is iffy, but not a strong scum read. I'm not sure what to make of his OMGUS. Klazam is still unreadable to me because I can't figure out his motivation.
So, yeah, no strong scum reads on your wagon. However, I noticed something in your ISO. You barely mention Llamarble, even though he's one of the people on your wagon. You've said a ton about Klazam, but almost nothing about Llamarble. Can you give me a full read on him?-
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@Sotty: Sure, sorry. I have a habit of copy-pasting and manually adding quote tags. I'll remember that for now on.-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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mith wrote:DemonHybrid: Fair enough if you would have spoken up on suspecting Equinox, but wouldn't you also speak up (before now, when you have been asked about her directly) if you found her townish? That whole exchange with LlamaFluff reads like you were trying to defend Equinox without actually coming out and committing to a town read (in case things went south?).
First in 51, we have you responding to LlamaFluff's vote by questioning his stance on meta; the follow-up in 55 then asks (paraphrasing) "Well if you think it's Equinox-IP, why aren't you picking on IP??".
So that's part of what was odd about that exchange. Then you apparently take offense when he implies you agree with him about Equinox - again without actually saying "No, I think she's town", followed by some "I FOSed you and you didn't respond" sulking. Meh.
(I'm not sure which point you're talking about with "I believe I have the right to agree with a point, even though I don't have a specific read on a person." - if you're talking about your post 45 point 2, I'm still lost, because you're saying you have the right to agree to a point which was never made. If you're talking about some other point, clarify.)
I apologize, but I also believe that I've said a few times that Equinox was not on my scumlist to IP. I would have assumed that it was implied at this part.
About my point to Llama about his avoidance of attacking IP, you have to realize that IP had a huge wagon at that point. If he really believed an Equinox-IP scumteam, he would have sided with the much larger wagon instead of voting Equinox and letting it go, since an IP scumflip would incriminate Equinox to him and vice versa. I don't find it genuine.
As far as my agreeing with Equinox, at the time, I thought she was talking about preference meta and I agreed with that at the time, even though that's what she wasn't talking about. It was a misunderstanding. I also didn't have a strong read on her until her response at #49, which was the point I was trying to stress.
Basically, in a nutshell: I didn't have a clear town read on Equinox until #49, but I agreed with her in my point 2 in #45. I thought my town read on Equinox was implied from my exchange with LlamaFluff (when I said multiple times that I didn't agree with Equinox being scummy), which is something that you noted, so I'm not sure why you brought all of it up.
Pie: Where's your Llamarble read?-
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EBWOP
I apologize, but I also believe that I've said a few times that Equinox was not on my scumlist to IP and LlamaFluff. I would have assumed that it was implied at this part.
I forgot that I talked to both Llama and IP about my read on Equinox.-
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Another EBWOP:
but I agreed with her in my point 2 in #45.
but I agreed with her in my point 2 in #45 (however, as stated above, it's not the point she was trying to get across).
I typed it hastily. Also, while thinking about it, I still had the mindset that she was talking about preference meta. Apologies.-
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mith wrote:Ok... but "not on my scumlist" does not equal "town", anymore than you telling LlamaFluff you weren't ruling her out as scum equates to you calling her obvscum. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you never talked about your "read" on Equinox except in the negative ("I'm not ruling her out"; "I didn't say that!"; "I never posted any suspicion of her").
And that isn't enough? I'm pretty sure I said it was implied a few times now.
The point is that when you were asked directly about her alignment (by me), you brought up some points in her favor which I would have thought would be relevant in discussing her previously. I'm trying to figure out why you didn't bring them up immediately, rather than going to more indirect route of "I'm not ruling Equinox out, but you should be voting IP if you think that". (Note that the "strong townish response" she supposedly gave in post 49 was before the LlamaFluff and InflatablePie exchanges.) My current hypothesis is that you didn't bring them up because you're lying scum, but I'm willing to be proven wrong.
My exact read on Equinox had not been relevant at the time. I asked Equinox a question, she responded. I let it go and agreed with her. Llama said that I posted suspicion on her. I didn't. If I don't have a scum read, then you could at least be able to deduce that I have a null or higher read. Sure, I didn't specify her as exact town, but I was busy talking to Llama and IP about other things. At least I can back up my claim by showing that there was no reason or motivation to attack Equinox, especially when I say something like "She could be scum, but nah. Lets focus on you instead, Llama".
I can't speak for what's in LlamaFluff's mind or what he should have done, but when I look at pairings early in a game I don't tend to treat those reads as stone cold 100% certainty, and my vote tends to go on whoever's behaviour I'm keying on. "You think this pair are scum together, so why don't you vote for the other one instead?" always sets off alarms for me (except in cases where there really is that near-certainty; i.e. "if Equinox is scum, IP must be, so IP is the better vote").
First off, that first sentence is laughable. I'd like you to tell me who is 100% certain about a read at this point in a game. That's "confirmed scum" or "confirmed town" territory.
Second, do you need me to restate the wagons on both Equinox and IP? IP had about 4 or 5 people on him at the time, yet Llama votes a single vote on Equinox and calls them a scum team. Soooooooooo...that's not weird how?
And it's in my personality to apologize to someone when I respect them, and I do it non-consciously. I've never played with you before, and you pretty much created the site, so a little of Matt mixed in with my DemonHybrid for a second there.-
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I'm at the gym at the moment, so I'll get back to you about Llama in an hour. It's possible that I misread his statement.
Second, what does it matter whether I has a town or null read on Equinox anyway? I agreed with her, and I stated before that I don't HAVE to agree with someone and only someone I have a solid town read on. If you told me that no one has ever agreed with someone they have a null read on, I wouldn't believe you. Since you know from my exchange with Llama and IP that she was at least not a scumread, then why are you pushing that as a point?-
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mith wrote:Why do you keep bringing up that you agreed with her (or what you thought she was implying, to be more accurate)? My issue there was that you were justifying your bandwagon vote by agreeing with something that wasn't said; it had nothing whatsoever to do with your read on her.
I keep bringing up your read on Equinox because:
a. It's odd that you didn't share that read when you formed it, rather than later.
b. Your exchange with LlamaFluff seems to me like a soft-defense of a scumbuddy without committing to a stance on her, or perhaps an opportunistic attempt to push LlamaFluff toward IP after misunderstanding his Equinox-IP statement, or both.
Because I thought that was the point of the argument that you have against me. If the whole issue is the reasoning on my agreeing with something she never said, it was just misunderstanding. I thought she was talking about preference meta, which is something that resonated louder than just team meta.
For your a.: I felt like I didn't need to. You keep saying that it has nothing to do with my read, yet you keep talking about it.
b.: First off, I read back to Llama's post. I CAN see the conditional between Llama's read on Equinox and IP as a scumteam, but he mentions nothing about "IP is scum if Equinox is". He says "Equinox and IP are outed as a scumteam". I'd like him to confirm what he meant, though.
Second off, you're missing the motivation. If it's a misunderstanding and he really did state a conditional, then you can understand why I'd push a point like that without knowing what he really meant, right? If he meant a conditional, it wasn't exactly black and white. More like camo-colored.
LlamaFluff: Can you confirm whether or not your Equinox-IP scumteam read was a conditional "IP is scum if Equinox is", or whether you stated both of them was a scumteam to you at that specific time (as in, both were scummy and both would flip scum)?-
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Oh, wow. I thought you mean like, out, as in out there.
Wow, I read that so fucking wrong.
I need to reread everything.-
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mith wrote:Whether you misread LlamaFluff's statement as a conditional or not is pretty irrelevant to my case; it's clear from context and the timing of the game that a statement of "Equinox and IP are scumbuddies" would have been based primarily on Equinox's play (since LlamaFluff was attacking and voting her), and would not be something LlamaFluff held as absolutely certain. (To be fair, I'm not sure I would find it all that less scumstastic if you were trying to push him from his stated vote to a L-1 even if he had presented perfectly symmetrical cases on the two of them. "You like this pairing, why don't you vote for the other half?" just resonates with me as a strong scumtell.)
Not that this matters anymore, but voting for someone with 0 votes as opposed to voting for someone who has 4 or 5 votes already on them and stating that they're a scumteam. I don't know how many times I need to tell you that that just seemed weird to me.
Bweh? I said that finding you agreeing with an imaginary Equinox stance scummy had nothing to do with your read on her; that's a separate issue from what you're responding to here (finding it odd that you didn't share your read sooner).
So, two separate issues? I explained both of them. A few times now. You keep ignoring the motivation (Point #1: Agreeing with a stance that I thought was obvious and implied, but happened to misunderstanding. Equinox's RVS tell on IP was only slightly different than mine anyway; Her's was team meta, mine was preference meta. Point #2: I just didn't feel the need to state my read since it was implied.)
Now, if for point #1, my motivation was just to get out of RVS, you'll see me and everyone else grab onto whatever they can. I thought what Equinox implied was clear, so I used it to get out of RVS and it wasn't. Since then, our case reasonings have split and that was that. You're literally focusing on ONE end-of-RVS post, when everyone was grabbing onto whatever information they can to leave RVS. Surely you find the act of focusing on that just absurd, right?
For point #2, if both 1. I didn't find the need to state my read and 2. I felt that through my exchange with Llama and IP it was implied, then what's the big deal? Because you didn't read it properly to get my stance on Equinox and you felt like I answered your question about my read on Equinox with weird timing? You got your answer. I explained where I expressed that Equinox wasn't a scumread. I really don't know what else you want. I really didn't mean or even imply in the least that I thought Equinox was scum when I told Llama that "Equinox could be scum, but...", since Equinox was a major player in our back and forth and the only point that I wanted to stress with that statement is that Equinox isn't confirmed or obvious town to me to support my argument. That is all implied and it's not my fault that you didn't pick up on something like that. Again, it wasn't my intention to make it some sort of elaborate puzzle to figure out my read on Equinox, but it's really not that hard to deduce. I just didn't find it all that important to clearly state "OH BY THE WAY, I FIND EQUINOX TOWN." in big bold letters.
Anyway, I'm still reading. I'll have a big post tomorrow with reads on everyone and come back with a fresh mind.-
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I'm still working on that wall post. It'll be up in a few hours. I promise. I'm trying to get every little detail.-
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Does it have anything at all to do with my preference for being town?
And I have a few pages done of my re-read and wall post. I'm working on the rest right now.-
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Chris B:
#78: I find this post to be very town. He realizes that his argument may be a mistake, so he points out the flaws before he lays it down. You may call it sort of an anchor, but I don't think he'd attack someone like Equinox while laying down a "I might be making a mistake" post.(-1 to Chris B)
Sotty:
#112: I like this post. I don't find Llamarble extremely scummy, despite that iffy vote, but I can understand how she came to all of her points.(-1 to Sotty)
Thor:
#23: Thor, read this post again. What scumtell did you mean? You're agreeing with something that Equinox didn't state. By that logic, mith, it's weird that you pointed out my agreeing but not Thor's. It's inconsistent.(+1 to mith)
#93: This is a little....small for the amount of time that's gone by since your last contribution.
#102: I read this as "If thor is scum, mith is not" and vice versa.
#105 and #107: I get a bad feeling about these posts. Note to self: Look back at these later after a few flips.
Klazam:
#43: If sarcasm is a valid scumtell, why not talk about SP's post?(+.5 to Klazam)
#52: Null questioning. If he keeps up the one line questions, I'm going to be more suspicious.
#74: Back to townie explanations. Clear and to the point and no bullshitting or town cred grabbing.(-.5 to Klazam)
#88-#91: I think SP and Llama are just misguided on Klazam and don't understand where he's coming from. Sort of a null back and forth.
DGB:
#25: DGB, was this an RVS vote?
#26: A null question. Both town and scum would have motivation to ask this.
#27: A bit of a townish question. Perhaps a gambit to tip DGB off on overly aggressive but non-logical players to bite and attack her for this post, but eh.(-0.5 to DGB)
#110: Why don't you have reads on the lurkers?
#115:(+1 to DGB). No. Read motivations. This seems opportunistic.
SP:
#37: Sarcasm post #1. Maybe I'm seeing the tone shift between the first paragraph and the last statement.
#44: Maybe noticed the Klazam dissonance.(-1 to SP)
#81: And the scum motivation behind posting in an antagonistic way is? I'm putting this null as now, but it's still not a definite scum indicator.
#84: And this is a townish response to the vote.(-1 to SP)
Equinox:
#18: Looks like an RVS post. Apparently it wasn't.
#29: Note to self: Equinox only thinks Thor knows the same thing. Not sure if Thor does know the same thing or only thinks.
Thor:did you 100% know what Equinox was talking about (by pre-game talk) or was it just a guess?
#34: A little townish for this post for getting people to talk.(-.5 to Equinox)
#40: A stronger tone. This post is null, even though it follows a townish post because I'm not sure if it's an act of overbearingness. I didn't see that attitude from Equinox that early in the last game that I played with her.
#46: A derp moment. It reads off as townie as me because any careful wagon building would be calculated with greater care and I don't think Equi would make a post like this.(-1 to Equinox)
#49: Would this be something Thor could have picked up before this game started? Really curious on that.
#80: It's a bit weird that Equinox is using meta still...
#83: Ewww, nononononono.(+1 to Equinox)
Equi's posts, from #83 on: You know....you mentioned a LOT about other people, but...SP only twice. Once saying that he misrepped a quote from you....but that's it. All the while, you kept your vote on him until you can re-do your reads. That was like...10 of your posts into the future.
I'm not liking this.
IP:
#28: That last part of the sentence is null. Joking? Trying to look overly calm? Who knows.
#41: The 3 questions near the end (especially that last one to himself): They don't look like well thought out questions.(+1 to IP)
#58: Uhhhhhhhh...voting himself. First off, why do you disagree with the sarcasm tell? Second off, I'm not liking the self vote in retrospect. Your sarcasm would be fine on it's own, but a mixture of meddling with your wagon gives me an uneasy feeling that I don't like.(+1 to IP)
#67: A Klazam vote. Why? Is it because of the sarcasm scumtell and that only?
#95: I'm ignoring the back and forth between IP and I because 1. I explained myself, 2. Equinox's point is null and 3. part of it contains LlamaFluff.
mith:
#38: Townish questioning. Not sure how I feel about that end statement though, about his experience. Null.
#86: Um...you like LlamaFluff and his good points, but don't like him because of gut.
Uh, what?(+.5 to mith)
Llamarble:
#19: Self-voting is null, it could mean anything.
#22: This post looks town for the motivation, but it's wrong. I don't think Sotty would even think of picking town if given the choice and I think the Don Corleone scummy is a turnoff to prevent WIFOM lynches.(-1 to Llamarble)
#32: This vote looks sort of opportunistic. Just a hunch.(+1 to Llamarble)
LlamaFluff:
#48: What's wrong with non-random first votes?
#53: I'm ignoring the exchange between Llama and I because of my misunderstanding of his statement in this post.
#54: Again, no one's mentioning SP and his sarcasm.(+.5 to LlamaFluff)
Sevei:
#85:(+1 to Sevei). Post.
At post #117. More to come later.
I haven't tallied them up yet, but + points are scum points, - points are town points.
I plan on finishing this. Almost done with page 5.-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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I fucking hate writing wall posts. I get really lazy sometimes.-
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I need some sleep. The rest will need to wait till tomorrow when I'm out of work (around 10:30 PM EDT. I know.)-
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Yes, I will. These are just notes that I'm jotting down.
Just wanted to show that I'm not bullshitting and active lurking. I won't have time to finish this until tonight but everyone is welcome to discuss it.-
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Because I'm fucking pissed off at my job, I'm just answering this:
mith wrote:DemonHybrid: “Just wanted to show that I'm not bullshitting and active lurking.” - Oh how I hate statements like this. Townies don’t need to “show” they aren’t bullshitting/active lurking, they just don’t do those things.
Sotty keeps replying "DH needs to do this, DH needs to do that", so let me rephrase it then if you don't like such a statement. I just want to show that I haven't died in a car accident. Is that better? Because it's the same thing.-
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I'd like to get a general opinion on whether or not people believe that scum would be more inclined not to bus, especially with someone like DGB. I would suggest that we narrow the lynch pool to the people off of the wagon (and yes, that includes me as well, if needed), but I'd like a show of hands of the people who believe that scum would be resistant to bus (and therefore, have at least one off of the wagon, most likely).-
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I didn't say that I wasn't concluding because I hated my job, so yeah.
mith, why didn't you comment on the on-wagon vs off-wagon votes, especially when I commented that I was off of the wagon? Do you think that one of the scum is off of the wagon?-
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mith wrote:Obviously I think at least one of the scum is off the wagon if I'm "not overly suspicious" of those on it.
Vote: DemonHybrid
What?
So...are you suspicious of the people off of the wagon BECAUSE you aren't suspicious of the people on it? Or...do you actually have reasons for suspecting who you do? That was a weird statement.-
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I wrote that because they kept me longer than usual. I went to bed and the day had ended before I could do more work on it. The DGB flip changes everything in retrospect.
Also, I'm not denying that you analyzed it, but saying that "I'd like to go for the off-wagon people because I'm not overly suspicious of the people on-wagon" makes it seem like you're discrediting your own analysis and reads off as weird to me. Why even say something like that instead of "because of my aforementioned analysis, I'd like to go for the people off the wagon" instead of "I'm looking at the people off the wagon because of my stance of the people ON the wagon"?-
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DemonHybrid And Another Thing...
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V/LA until Monday at 8 PM EDT.I'll be sporadically posting but I work 10-8 Sat and Sun, and 8-8 on Monday and it's a holiday weekend and yeah.-
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TheButtonmen wrote:D2VC3:
DH (3): mith, Sotty, Llamarble
Sevei (2): IP, Thor
Llamarble (1): Equinox
Klazam (1): Llamarble
mith (1): LlamaFluff
Not Voting: DH, Klazam,ChrisB,Sevei
With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch.
Chris B is on V/LA until the 31st.
Sotty is V/LA until 30th.
@Mod: Llamarble is voting for Sevei, not me.
@Thor: I picked this game because VT is my favorite role. Things feel more like being in a sherlock holmes novel instead of some sort of uninteresting game of hide-from-the-spotlight.
@mith:
DemonHybrid: You're twisting; I didn't say I was looking at the people off wagon because I didn't find those on wagon suspicious. What I said was that I was intended to read through the wagon later - the (I thought rather obvious, but apparently not) implication being that there wasn't much urgency to look at those players who I wasn't suspicious of, contrasted to the off-wagon group who I then went on to analyze.
Alright. No need to freak out. I just thought it was a little weird that you worded it that way.
I got out of work a bit early today so I have some time to do some analysis. Like the others, I'd like to avoid the DGB wagon for now and I'm kind of looking at Sevei at the moment. I'll ISO her and see what interactions she's had with DGB and give my input later tonight.-
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Thor665 wrote:I'm being pretty sold by the DH as scum arguements. I think the smart money is either Sevei or DH at this stage.
Thor665 wrote:What's the DH case again?
Wait, what?
Also, I woke up a few hours ago. I've been doing a lot of falling asleep and whatnot.
I did take a look at Sevei and DGB. I can find specific examples if people would like me to, but in a nutshell, Sevei put up a fight against DGB pretty heavily, while DGB barely mentioned Sevei. I don't have a lot of Sevei scum meta and can't tell if she's passive or aggressive towards buddies.
@Sevei, can you please link the game in which you were scum?
mith has been getting increasingly tunnely and scummy for a while now. I still think Sotty is town. I'm not sure whether Thor hit his head and got amnesia, or whether he is scum.
Why did you forget the case on me when you agreed with it pages ago? It didn't exactly change.-
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Thor665 wrote:DemonHybrid wrote:I'm not sure whether Thor hit his head and got amnesia, or whether he is scum.
Why did you forget the case on me when you agreed with it pages ago? It didn't exactly change.
Yes, those are the only possible reasons I asked Sotty what the case on you was.
Proceed.
Then word it that way. I had to double-take for a moment.-
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Really, sotty? That was completely clear to you and can't see how that can mean "Wait, what was the case on DH again? I forgot and I need a reminder"?-
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@mith and Chris B: Except that a White Flag setup would be bastardized with the inclusion of daytalk without notification to the players, unless I'm mistaken.
@Sotty: You guys were talking about Sevei. You mentioned me and then he asked what the case was with me. I had to double-take and ask to make sure. That's really all there is to it. Notice when Thor answered, I let it go and he let it go.-
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Also, Sotty, I'm waiting for Sevei's scum meta. I need to do a bit of research; Sevei says she's a bad scum player and I'd like to apply that to this game.-
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Equinox wrote:DemonHybrid wrote:Also, Sotty, I'm waiting for Sevei's scum meta. I need to do a bit of research; Sevei says she's a bad scum player and I'd like to apply that to this game.
I'mma go ahead and answer this because I want to force Sevei to answer my question and not pretend to skip it by answering this one. Iso Sevei; she gave me her scum meta earlier.
Oh, did she?
I must have read over it. Let me go check.-
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She seemed to place suspicion onto smargaret and then inch her way back to townliness. She hopped back onto her case later on in the game, but then gave null-to-scummish reads.
Doesn't tell me a lot; though, Sevei's determination in getting DGB lynched was by far and away greater in this game. Unless I'm mistaken again, she hasn't really given DGB a null read; she called her scummy since the start.-
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Fun fact: Sevei mentions DGB in nearly every post; the only exception was the last and the first two. The last post was some defending and the first two were her catching up posts.
Has anyone suspect both Llamarble and Sevei today?Those people should be looked at much more heavily; I don't think Sevei, as scum, would have bussed BOTH partners with the White Flag mechanic. That's a silly assumption.-
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Just LlamaFluff.
Llama, what do you say about this? Do you really think Sevei and Llamarble are scum together?-
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@DH: Equinox answered this, but just out of curiosity, did you read/analyze my whole ISO in from that game in four minutes?
Not word-for-word, post-for-post. I wanted a gist of how you acted with your scumbuddy.
LlamaFluff: You have a knack of not answering my questions =|-
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What do you mean by "independently in your short list"? I just want to make sure I understand that completely.-
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And you have such a strong scumread on me, so are you assuming Amrun is scum then?-
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For right now (and I'll explain more if it's asked of me):
Amrun's replacement reads off as extremely strong. I'm not sure what to make of it, or her defense of me.
Llama's explanation that "Sevei and Llamarble are scumreads independently" was very weird.
I'm pretty okay with Sotty's suspicion and tunneling on me. She's using a lot of meta but it looks very genuine.
mith's tunneling, on the other hand, is bad. He's being very cautious with what he's saying and things look like elaborate future-lynch setups, such as the "Amrun can only be scum with DH" stuff that he put down. I'm not liking it.
After reading Sevei a lot more, I'm not comfortable with her lynch. Her attack on DGB just seems a little too real.
I still stand firmly by the theory that 1 scum was on DGB's wagon, 1 off. There's the problem of on-wagon/off-wagon probabilities. THAT'S why I'm having trouble finding a vote; most of the really scummy people today so far have been ON DGB's wagon but I'm looking back to probabilities. However, counting my scumreads with the amount of people on and off DGB's wagon, Amrun, ChrisB, LlamaFluff and Llamarble were off the wagon. All 4 of those slots have had scummy actions attributed to them (as well as townish actions). But at the same time, so has Thor and mith, who were on the wagon. I'm alright with IP, Sevei and sotty being solid town reads at this point, and because of that,Vote: mith, even though the greater probability is TECHNICALLY voting off the wagon.
As for the questions for me: DGB is a moderately hard person to read; I think IP asked me that. I didn't want to rush into a vote but you know that DGB's lurkiness really set off the scum radar for me for the most part. She's about a 7 out of 10 on a hard to read scale in comparison to other people. This is my first game with her, however, and the playerlist is very strong, so that might have a LOT of influence on my uneasiness of her; I'm very uneasy with a lot of peoples' lynches, as they have a lot of town AND scum motivation behind what they've been doing.
So, I would say at the moment that mith, LlamaFluff, ChrisB, Llamarble and Thor are my top 5 lynch candidates in that order. Amrun's really a conditional, but I'm not going to commit a read to that and speculate future lynches like mith did. Amrun and Klazam's spots by pure analysis get a town read from me at the moment; mith's flip, if the game continues, would have me look back at Amrun/Klazam's posts and re-evaluate my read on her.-
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Also, ChrisB has had 15 posts and I see a lack of hounding him for that from mith. His last comment was "Well...uh, DGB probably got bussed. And I don't get the sotty read", which has been talked about a lot since then.
Another future conditional mith has posted is a "Chris is town if DH is scum" post. He seems to like ending his arguments on that note a LOT.-
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