Chuck Season 1 - GAME OVER

[Empking]

Reading the thread now. If you've got any questions ask them.

[Empking]

Ant looks ver much town to me. As do CDB and Magua (RC was my biggest town read but he's dead.)

Its clicche but I have to go

Vote: Rag

[Empking]

Ooba; Is Thor being a town read dependent on CDB being scum?

[Empking]

- Ant goes into town list because I don't see scum doing a stupid hammer like that ..

I don't get this. It was a deadline hammer and done without a lot of fanfare. At the time Ant put the hammer down, it seemed like most people in the game were either voting dana/EP or they were just waiting for deadline to come. There wasn't a lot going on, so I could totally see scum waiting around to make the hammer. I don't necessarily think Ant is scum right now, but my point is that I don't see how it's a town tell. At best it's probably a null tell unless I see some other indications from Ant that link him to that lynch in one way or another.

#Unvote

Vote: MOS

- I dfon't like this soft town-tell bashing.

[Empking]

- Ant goes into town list because I don't see scum doing a stupid hammer like that ..

I don't get this. It was a deadline hammer and done without a lot of fanfare. At the time Ant put the hammer down, it seemed like most people in the game were either voting dana/EP or they were just waiting for deadline to come. There wasn't a lot going on, so I could totally see scum waiting around to make the hammer. I don't necessarily think Ant is scum right now, but my point is that I don't see how it's a town tell. At best it's probably a null tell unless I see some other indications from Ant that link him to that lynch in one way or another.

#Unvote

Vote: MOS

- I dfon't like this soft town-tell bashing.

You'll have to explain yourself here. What MoS said seems logical to me.

It might be logical but why did he say it? What purpose does it serve but to spread disunity?

[Empking]

I think Magua's respoonse to MBF look town because I think sdcum would be more careful and covering all bases (Thinking of 708 here.)

[Empking]

PerigrineV:

Town

Magua
Channeldelibird
Ant_to_the_max
Thor665

Scum

Ragnarokio
Mastermind of Sin*
danakillsu

[Empking]

PerigrineV:

Town

Magua
Channeldelibird
Ant_to_the_max
Thor665

Scum

Ragnarokio
Mastermind of Sin*
danakillsu

Why do I have the honor of being starred? Can you expand on your reads somewhat, please? I'm especially interested in your town list, actually.

The star was because you were prodded. My town list is based on liking their logic and reads and my faith in them being genuine.

MBF: Am I right in thinking that you're not suspicious of Dana?

[Empking]

My top suspects for scum are Ant_to_the_max, ooba, Perigrine, and Empking, in roughly that order. For Empking in particular, I have this gut feeling that he's writing me off as town so he can say "I told you so" when I'm lynched, and I find that to be scummy for reasons I can't quite elucidate.

It'd bev that I was looking for towncred surely? (Though TBH anything that looks like foreknowledge of a flip is not looked well upon in the current meta.)

Yeah MOS isn't going anywhere and I'd like some breathing room with regards to claims and the like.

Unvote

Vote: Dana

[Empking]

Well, be quick about it. Deadline is Thursday.

Empking, why dana? I know why I want to lynch him, but your vote just seems opportunistic.

I put him as a scum read previously.

Care to give us some reasoning?

Dana simply isn't scumhunting. I alsop dislike the way the wagon moved from Dana previously.

[Empking]

I have a handful of miscellaneous town reads that I don't see the point in sharing right now.

Most of the other people in the game are null, with one or two raising some minor suspicions that I intend to look further into so as to form a solid opinion.

I just looked through Rag's and Dana's recent posts in ISO (I've just realized that they've got aroundf the same number of votes.). This post caught my eye, it really is the pinacle of not scum hunting.

Unvote

Vote: Rag

[Empking]

Emp hopping on the Rag wagon at this stage clarifies my desire to see him dead as well.

Why?

[Empking]

But, to be frank, I see nothing in the Rag case that isn't equally applicable to you. Yet you think she's a good lynch. Bleh.

Do you think I domn't have any town reads and only a pitiful amount of scumreads? That's why I'm voting her.

[Empking]

Your only reason for voting her is lack of reads advanced?

Mind rephrasing that?

You think that should make you look better?

It should make me look bad in a dfifferent way.

[Empking]

Your only reason for voting her is lack of reads advanced?

Mind rephrasing that?

[Empking]

Your only reason for voting her is lack of reads advanced?

Mind rephrasing that?

You pointed out that the way she was different is that she wasn't presenting many scum reads and also no town reads.
Ergo - your only reason voting her is lack of reads advanced?

It looked like she had no reads at all not even that she was keeping them secret.

[Empking]

@Emp - So...yes, then. yeah, you're still scummy for that. How do you feel about her scumminess considering the following two things.
1. How she has now presented a wall of her reads?
2. How she, reasonably accurately I feel, has pointed out that I, and probably some others, haven't been constant and crystal clear in expressing our reads.

It doesn't change mind because of course scum would fix the problem they were being called out for.

[Empking]

Mod: If CDB ends up requesting replacement will we get an extention?

[Empking]

That looks like misrepresentation. MOS is saying your ideas on that players should only be on the large wagons near deadline seemed to have changed now you're under fire.

[Empking]

Magua and Ant are equally good town reads to my mind.

*Shrug*

[Empking]

Magua and Ant are equally good town reads to my mind.

*Shrug*

What about MBF and Thor? Are they townreads as well?

Thor's a minor one?

[Empking]

Magua and Ant are equally good town reads to my mind.

*Shrug*

So which one are you going to vote for? Or would you prefer to forfeit the lynch today?

If it gets really close to deadline then I'll hammer whomever.

*shrug*

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Ant

- If we get an extention then I'm going to move to MOS.

(Ooba's point makes sense and it also works with me because of my suspicion of MOS.)

[Empking]

[qupte]I think it should be obvious what I did with my night action...[/quote]

It isn't to me. A guilty on Magua?

[Empking]

I don't necessarily think he should reveal his result just yet...unless you think he was given the

main character

as a safeclaim...

1. Vi's modding guide says to choose the false claims at random. Its possible though unlikely.
2. I expectb he'll be dead tonight. This might be his last chance.

Also,

Unvote

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: MOS

- Go, go, go.

[Empking]

dana is apparently V/LA so can't claim. So at this point that only leaves Magua.

Unvote

Vote: Magua

[Empking]

OK, I'll hammer before deadline (to be honest since he's on V/LA there's nothing to say really.)

[Empking]

dana is apparently V/LA so can't claim.

Where'd you get this from?

His sig.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: MOS

[Empking]

Lol 5-5 if they cross vote and CDB to decide ..

They can't crossvote. They're v/la. (I think MOS is at least.)

[Empking]

Unvote, Vote: CDB?

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: MOS

[Empking]

MOS: You're on L-1.

[Empking]

Eta till deadline?
at work and I need to time it out

Around 2 hours, 45 min ..

*Giggle*

We've got more than five hours.

Ooba: Staying on MOS? Why?

[Empking]

Eta till deadline?
at work and I need to time it out

Around 2 hours, 45 min ..

*Giggle*

We've got more than five hours.

Ooba: Staying on MOS? Why?

5 hours from the time of Reck's last post right?

*Giggle* Five hours from this post.

Staying on MOS .. It's actually the more townier of the wagons .. MBF, Per .. It also has Magua who cannot be scum with dana so it's all cool ..

You're confirmed town anyway. Don't need to worry about any perceive inconsistincies on your part.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Dana

[Empking]

I'm not sure Neighbourizers mean much. It seems the classic confirmable scum power role though I'm not sure when this game was designed.

Vote; Rag

- Gut.

[Empking]

Channeldelibird
PeregrineV
mikeburnfire
Ragnarokio

This looks like a good list.

[Empking]

Empking- cop result (if there is a vig, I think he would be the best target to check imo)

?

[Empking]

In my experience scum have safeclaims.

[Empking]

I have seen a game where they did not (Mini 336). Once flavor was exposed, mafia were killed.

Did you really point to a game 700 games ago? I'd be fine with a flavour claim, truth be told, but I'd be honestly shocked if they got tripped up based on it.

[Empking]

I have seen a game where they did not (Mini 336). Once flavor was exposed, mafia were killed.

Did you really point to a game 700 games ago?

Look, I don't play Mafia very often anymore, okay?

To be honest I'm impressed that you were able to do so.

[Empking]

No offense to your neighbor, but Ant a)could have been lying about being a cop or investigating ooba or b)hit a babyface.

A vig still shouldn't kill them. Especially with someone who was as generally town as Ooba.

or decided to kill ReaperCharlie along with the Mafia,

I doubt there'd only be one kill flavour in that case.

[Empking]

There are two doctors but I don't think it makes sense for them to be

the

doctor.

[Empking]

Rag = Scum
MBF = Maybe scum due to POE.

[Empking]

Unvote

I'd like a nameclaim from at least MBF.

[Empking]

Does it mention wife in your role PM?

[Empking]

STOP IT EMPKING >_>
and I figured you were the other half :/

?

[Empking]

MBF: Why didn't you kill Dana?

[Empking]

Don't mean to be a stickler here MBF, but why did you assassinate on night1 and kill on night2?

He didn't.

My vote is going to go onto one of MBF and Rag, probably Rag because though MBF's kills look like an anti-town force I'm having a hard time seeing why he'd just claim like this. I'd like a massclaim starting with Rag (also has MOS claimed past the one-shot neighbourizer thing?)

[Empking]

Guys, I killed

ReaperCharlie and Magua

.

Don't mean to be a stickler here MBF, but

why did you assassinate on night1 and kill on night2

?

Energetic Penguin: Lester Patel (Vanilla Townie) Lynched Day 1.

ReaperCharlie

: "Big" Mike Tucker(Vanilla Townie)

assassinated

Night 1.
danakillsu: Stavros Demetrios (Mafia Roleblocker) Lynched Day 2

Magua

: General Beckman (Vanilla Townie),

assassinated

Night 2
oboe: Anna Wu (Vanilla Townie), killed Night 2

In this game, Thor is the only one who reads, it is a proven.

I saw that before you. I just didn't want to spell it out.

@Empking - you want to kill MBF or Rag? Do you think they're scum together or that they're equally likely one of the alternate scum team potentials, or what?

I don't think they're scum together but I don't think this is an example of a two town neighbourhood. I fail to see how the list is random considering Rag has always been my top suspect today and MBF claimed a kill on RC.

Second question - what do you think of my reasoning that MBF is town?

Its the only reason I'm not voting him.

[Empking]

I don't think they're scum together but I don't think this is an example of a two town neighbourhood.

Shouldn't that make our top two Rag/MoS? As the neighborizers they're the suspect ones, yeah?

Wow, somebody hasn't been reading the thread.

MBF was neighbourized by Rag, he has always been

neighbours

with Rag.

[Empking]

I don't think they're scum together but I don't think this is an example of a two town neighbourhood.

Shouldn't that make our top two Rag/MoS? As the neighborizers they're the suspect ones, yeah?

Wow, somebody hasn't been reading the thread.

MBF was neighbourized by Rag, he has always been

neighbours

with Rag.

Actually I thought you were implying both neighborizers couldn't be town.

But there aren't two neighbourizers. At least that's what MBF said.

(Note to self: If Rag turns out to be a neighbourizer then she and Thor are 100% scum buddies)

So you're going with both players in that particular neighborhood can't be town? ...why?

Too much power in one group.

[Empking]

But there aren't two neighbourizers. At least that's what MBF said.

(Note to self: If Rag turns out to be a neighbourizer then she and Thor are 100% scum buddies)

Touche' I haven't been reading either.
Though if she turns out to be a neighborizer than she couldn't have been always neighbors with MBF and he'd be more likely scum with her than I - derpy doo.

Why do you think neighbors is too much power?

Its because its coupled with the Vig.

[Empking]

@Empking

Wht do you think makes more sense balance wise;

A SK with a neighbor of a town so he can...influence town somewhat?
or
Scum with a neighborhood of a Vig so they can...influence a second kill?
or
Vig and town so they can...not trust each other and maybe target kills better?

The most overpowered one I see is Scum having an in with the Vig, not Vig having an in with town. What am I missing?

How do you define overpowered?

We have a Cop - That's one of the most power roles.
I believe we have a one-shot neighbourizer.
We have something that blocked a kill.
A Vig plus town neighbour is clearly overpowered.

[Empking]

@Empking

Wht do you think makes more sense balance wise;

A SK with a neighbor of a town so he can...influence town somewhat?
or
Scum with a neighborhood of a Vig so they can...influence a second kill?
or
Vig and town so they can...not trust each other and maybe target kills better?

The most overpowered one I see is Scum having an in with the Vig, not Vig having an in with town. What am I missing?

How do you define overpowered?

We have a Cop - That's one of the most power roles.
I believe we have a one-shot neighbourizer.
We have something that blocked a kill.
A Vig plus town neighbour is clearly overpowered.

No possibility that MBF/Rag is the last of the scumteam using this as their claim?

That seems crazy. If its gets to LyLo then I might have to look at that again but it looks crazy.

[Empking]

@Emp - Why do you believe MoS as town neighborizer?

1. His claim is truthful but he put more effort than scum would in delivering the identity of his role.
2. One-Shot Neighbourizer is a Mafia or Town power. Why would MOS get the mafia's RB killed when there was already an outted Cop? MOS should've rolled over and died in that case.
3. Ant

[Empking]

I admit wholeheartedly I am fishing.

If he's a Vig+ I want to know now so I can assess now.

+1

[Empking]

Why couldn't RC/Magua been killed by the Mafia?

[Empking]

Vote: MBF

[Empking]

Peregrine, you're pretty much the only player left that can get MBF up to L-1. Even if you disagree with it its still worth it to stop the game from stalling.

[Empking]

I can live with the Dramonic lynch but I'd much prefer a peregrine vig over a Thor vig.

[Empking]

Did people think that was an actual claim? I read MBF's last post before seeing the claim so I can't tell if it weas a genuine joke or an actual claim that he's backtracking from.

[Empking]

Rag: Do you know the info?

[Empking]

Oh, and you want to know what helps town - knowing things.
What hurts town? Being confused and in the dark about things.

+1

[Empking]

Ant: CXhange it to killing Peregrine.

[Empking]

Where did the EmpKing hate for me come from?

Its more about Thor being obvtown.

[Empking]

Is the 2 town or scum?

[Empking]

Really? Cop + Doc + Vig Neighbour + Neighbour is ridiculously powerful. Godfather + Roleblocker + Neighbourizer don't really come close to balancing it.

Preview: I think he means investigation immune godfather.

[Empking]

Really? Cop + Doc + Vig Neighbour + Neighbour is ridiculously powerful. Godfather + Roleblocker + Neighbourizer don't really come close to balancing it.

Preview: I think he means investigation immune godfather.

Yes to investigation immune.

So, what you are implying is Cop+ Doc +Vig Neighbour + Neighborizer is less powerful than GF +RB + neighbor?
Can you elaborate on what you feel the town set-up might be, because it appears you are merely steering us away from a possiblity without presenting others.

I'm leaning towards:

3 Scum

1 Un-NKable SK Neighbour

1 Neighbour
1 Neighbourizer
1 Cop
Townies

[Empking]

I can support mass claim.

[Empking]

Yeah, I don't buy MBF thinking he was lynching himself. Looks like a gambit to me.

I don't see why Ant should go first but if he wants to *shrug*.

[Empking]

1. Seriously you lied to us?
2. We had the

force

that

out of you?

[Empking]

Unvote, FoS: MBF

Why?

Oh yeah forgot to

Unvote]

[Empking]

Ellie Bartowski, vanilla. So is it Thor now?

[Empking]

Thor: Can you explain further?

OK, it looks like there were legitimately only one night kill the first night. The first thing to come to mind is that mafia has the ability through Rag on odd nights to change their kill flavour to assasinated.

Unvote

Vote: Rag

Any other ideas?

[Empking]

By docs do y0ou mean flavour docs (i.e. me and Thor)?

[Empking]

@Emp - explain what further? There should be a pro-town Day Vig or else my role makes very little sense.

But what is your role?

Also, I don't think I understand you Rag accusation there... I mean, I really don't understand how you came to that conclusion and how it makes Rag scummy. I might just be being stupid, could you clue me in?

Firstly,
* There are no unclaimed kills.
* The mafia did kill that night.
* Rag claimed the only kill

Therefore
* Rag claimed the mafia kill.

Ergo
* Rag is mafia.

[Empking]

But of course Reck wasn't the one to deal with night one.

Preview: Not really since Chuck makes sense with finding the mafia while Ellie and Awesome don't make sense saving someone from being assassinated.

[Empking]

@Emp - explain what further? There should be a pro-town Day Vig or else my role makes very little sense.

But what is your role?

Also, I don't think I understand you Rag accusation there... I mean, I really don't understand how you came to that conclusion and how it makes Rag scummy. I might just be being stupid, could you clue me in?

Firstly,
* There are no unclaimed kills.
* The mafia did kill that night.
* Rag claimed the only kill

Therefore
* Rag claimed the mafia kill.

Ergo
* Rag is mafia.

Pondering this.

How do you know for sure the mafia killed that night?

I don't see any reason for them having not killed last night.

Vig flavor of RC kill matches vig flavor of Magua kill, esp since no one counterclaimed that vig killed ooba. How would you explain that?

The first thing to come to mind is that mafia has the ability through Rag on odd nights to change their kill flavour to assasinated.

[Empking]

@EmpKing- Kind of like a ninja doctor. He will never be spotted protecting someone?

I don't understand.

[Empking]

@Rag- Does your role have a safe claim?

FTFY

[Empking]

MBF: You explaination for the night 1 results is...

[Empking]

Peregrine What's wrong with the quote?

So the question is do we believe the neighbor vigs, the claimed cop, and/or the neighborizor?

Neighbor vigs
Why they could be town: Symmetry. Giving town a vig power but splitting it among two players to weaken/strengthen it. Make them neighbors to add confusion to roles and reduce the double vig power. No counterclaim for night2 (if the "real" vig killed ooba, they could claim and out the fake vigs as the mafia).
Why they could be scum: Their claim gives them everything the remaining scum players have- a QT and a NK.

Claimed cop
Why they could be town: Standard PR for town, pretty common and would seem to match name flavor, IMO.
Why they could be scum: All targets are dead, except EmpKing who is unconfirmed. Also, "neighbored" by MoS. This could be faked, obviously if Ant & MoS are scum. Ant could also fake it with lack of real cop counterclaim.

Neighborizor
Why they could be town: Role could give town another chance to confirm a town player if the neighborizor chooses correctly. Not a strong role otherwise, not doesn;t overpwer the town.
Why they could be scum: Step up from goon, so adds a little more power to mafia to counterbalance twin vigs. Generally the role is mostly given to mafia team.

P-edit: I'll address other posts separately if needed.

1. I don't think the remaining two mafia will link to each other.
2. I'm 95% sure Rag is Mafia. If he is then I think MBF, MOS and Ant are town.

MBF:

If we're running under the assumption that town is really powerful, a killing restriction would not be something to counter-balance it.

Isn't that against your point?

[Empking]

Isn't that against your point?

No, what I meant was that if town is really powerful, then the scum would not have killing restrictions.

Yes but your point is that scum have some restriction that stopped them killing night 1 and that the two neighbour-vigs are both town. Isn't that contradicted by that quote.

[Empking]

2. I'm 95% sure Rag is Mafia. If he is then I think MBF, MOS and Ant are town.

What if Rag is town. Then who can be mafia?

MBF, MOS, Thor, You, Dram

[Empking]

@EmpKing- lol- so Ant is town no matter what, and MBF and MOS hinge on Rag? Can you help me wxplain how you arrived at this cinclusion?
And if Rag is mafia, what is Thor? What am I? And what is Dram?

Look at what people have claimed. We clearly have a Cop.
We won't have a scum neighbour and scum neighbourizer.
If Rag is scum then he and MBF wouldn't link to each other.
If Rag is scum then I'd say Dram is the most likely buddy.

[Empking]

Kill: Peregrine
Dayvig: Peregrine
Murder: Peregrine
Assassinate: Peregrine
Vigkill: Peregrine
Vig: Peregrine
Eliminate: Peregrine

[Empking]

Pre: Who was killed by the mafia on night one in your opinion?

[Empking]

You think the set up is: Cop, Doc, Neighbour-Vigs? Are you serious?

[Empking]

So town cop, doc and vig sounds insane? With vig power

increased

by putting it into two players hands (neighbors not masons)?

FTFY and yes.

[Empking]

They are even night and odd night vig. How is that more powerful than a regular vig?

What MOS said plus they don't look like Serial Killers plus its harder for scum to dispose of them.

[Empking]

So now the town vigs are both serial killers? Do they share the same alignment?

Is that directed to me?

MBF is town. Rag is Mafia.

[Empking]

Mafia or SK, Empking? o.O

Mafia.

[Empking]

So isn't it unfair to all concerned for the town vig and the SK to have the same kill flavor (even if it is only one word)?

No that's a bonus for scum.

MOS: Rag is scum because he claimed the mafia's kill.

[Empking]

Thor; I agree with your analysis but I think MBF is saved by the set up.

[Empking]

I would rather have him saved by actions than outguessing the mod - as currently the setup appears to be somewhere between LOL and LOLOMGWTF!
You apparently think one of the Rag/mbf pair is scummy scum - why is Rag not saved by the setup and mbf is?

Rag is scum with a vig flavoured kill. MBF has to be a Vig unless he's LOL Even Night SK.

[Empking]

Though I'm agreeing with your mbf town call - why did you say if Rag flips town mbf is your top scumspect earlier - wouldn't the same logic still hold true in making him not scum?

Did I? Must've been a blonde moment *shrug*

[Empking]

@Emp - what makes you so certain Rag isn't just a twit who shot one of the most obvious town in the game? Isn't the whole, neighbor scum who changes flavor of scum kill to match that of Even Night Vig kind of a...odd setup?

Not as odd as a day doctor without a dayvig.

[Empking]

Dram and Ant still need to do Vig checks - I submit Pere or MoS are the reasonable ones to shoot at. One of you pick, and the second player can do the other one.

@Emp - my role exists, therefore I submit so does the Dayvig.

Or more likely your role is a red herring and Rag is scum.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Dram

- Wait as there is only one kill tonight though and then we can lynch Rag.

[Empking]

Vig: Peregine

[Empking]

Rag has to be scum. Therefore MOS isn't scum.

[Empking]

I appreciate your Rag case, but it hinges on how mothrax would handle double targeting and we have no idea how that is. Why so confident about that?

Because randomly picking a kill flavour (Or any other abritary system) is really, really stupid.

[Empking]

@Emp - current mod claims that as his system, you don't think that's a potential hint to how mothrax did it?

No. To be honest its more likely to be a potential hint that its impossible to be double-killed in this game.

[Empking]

Thor, seriously. "Too much neighbor tech"? It's a worthless role. It doesn't confirm anyone.

Except Rag for you, amirite

No, I think too much neighbor tech is a perfectly fine issue. If I'd claimed neighborizer would that have been too much neighbor tech? I think we're niggling on a matter of degrees, not on a matter of whether 'too much X tech' is a valid position.


@Emp - a potential hint? Why do I feel like your Rag case requires a lot of squinting and turning of the head sideways. Yeah, she's useless, and has been useless, and if mbf is town and she isn't she's pulled the wool so far over his eyes he's stepping on it as he mumbles about how useless dram is - but the setup is mafia kill and on odd nights have their kill flavor match the even night Vig who they are neighbors with as their roleblocker protects them from a Day Doc, a Neighborizer, and a Cop fumbling about? That would be a weird as hell setup and heavily scum favored.

Neighbor Vigs
Cop
Day Doc (lol?)
vs.
Roleblocker
Scum Neighborizer
Goon

Seems more reasonable, yeah?

They're both reasonable set ups to my mind.

[Empking]

Why does the Rag one win out?

Because of night one.

[Empking]

29

[Empking]

I propose that Ant claim his investigation target, and Rag shoots at a person undisclosed. The reason for this is that there's probably no way to sabotage the cop at this point. Godfather perhaps, but nobody can control that. However, if the vig-kill target is disclosed, then the mafia can manipulate us. If they know Rag is going to kill a townie, they can just not kill and make Rag look like the scary Scumvig. If it's a secret, then mafia have to choose between killing a townie and clearing Rag as scum, or not killing and running the risk that she hits paydirt.

[Empking]

MOS: Why aren't you voting?

[Empking]

I can see scum having some advantages with knowing kill target though - mbf has talked a lot of stuff I disagree with, but that one makes a lot of sense. Because the only time they want to 'kill Vig' is if Vig is targeting scum.

Why would they kill vig in that case?

[Empking]

What are the dana interactions that damn the Dram slot?

I don't feel like repeating myself anymore.

They can't be that impressive then because I don't recall them. You should probably vote for Pere.

Everyone who is doing nothing to get a lynch is scum.

...hey, Reck, am I the only town player left in this game?

People should vote for Pere. Hell, people should vote for Dram even - they should be doing something right now.

I agree with your hypothesis that Ran is scum.

[Empking]

Also, I'm willing to move to vote closer to the deadline.

[Empking]

Thor still most probably needs a bullet

He says as he gets onto the wagon that isn't him when Thor easily could have voted Dram.
This makes sense to you?

Makes you think about changing your vote doesn't it.

[Empking]

I pretty much already stated that I believe the scum are you, peregrine and a SK between our two neighbor vigs.

Ok. I'm no longer fine with moving my vote.

[Empking]

Is Pere on L-1?

[Empking]

Thor & MOS

[Empking]

[bv]Mod: Who are alive?[/b]

[Empking]

That's five.

[Empking]

Thor: You think Ant is scum?

[Empking]

Seems like either Emp or Ant has to be scum - only way to justify living cop.

Thor: I don't understand, surely if I was the godfather then I'd want to be confirmed town via Ant plus he'd be nothing but a hinderance to keep alive?

[Empking]

Are you saying that if you were GF you'd have killed Ant to showcase how obv. town you were? Hmmm, maybe, though I can think of some lylo difficulties that would raise for you if we lynched correctly after an Ant death.

How so?

What is your call on Ant, you seem to be not weighing in.

In all honesty until this last page it plain didn't occur to me that Ant could be scum. I want to sleep on it.

[Empking]

Are you saying that if you were GF you'd have killed Ant to showcase how obv. town you were? Hmmm, maybe, though I can think of some lylo difficulties that would raise for you if we lynched correctly after an Ant death.

How so?

Theoretically;

You are scum with let's say MoS, because it'll wok with a theory town Ant.

Ant dies last night.

Thor, Rag, and mbf sort of vaguely idiot savant together and lynch MoS

Going into night;

Unconfirmed Vig neighborhood.
Thor the weird Doc claim guy.
And the confirmed town guy.

Scum would not kill confirmed town because...?

But, to get back to my point, as you sleep on the deep question of Ant scum, you are advancing the idea that if you were GF you totally would have killed Ant, yeah?

Though I agree with your point, I don't think that far in advance so yeah I would have killed Ant.

[Empking]

Vote: MOS

- I can't see any scumjteams that Ant would be in.

[Empking]

Ant: 1623 is just bull. If the scum could only lose out from you investigation then they'd kill you. If godfather Thor thought you'd investigate him then they'd be inclined to let you live.

[Empking]

@Emp - please explain why GF Thor should have expected to live since the Vig clearly hated my guts. Yes, if I thought I would live leaving the cop alive to investigate me would be a normal GF type plan. But I had been specifically antagonizing both Vigs all day yesterday - you're calling that normal GF play?

Also - kudos on spotting the descending trap.

Personally, I never thought you'd be vig'd. So I don't see why you'd necesarily expect to be vig'd.

[Empking]

Really? Who did you expect Rag to Vig?

I expected Rag to kill MBF. I was working off Rag being scum at the time.

[Empking]

...okay, so knowing Rag isn't scum, which theoretically scumThor would - who would you expect her to kill.

Dram obviously.

[Empking]

Just had this random thought while at work today...

If dana was the RB, and MoS was the neighborizer, wouldn't that make dana > MoS and scum would be more willing to save dana and cut the loss of the neighborizer?

But...

What are you trying to say here?

[Empking]

@Emp - are you cribbing MoS' answer there? Or did you have another?

Ran kill Dram. The clues must point to Ran killing Dram.

[Empking]

Yes but he didn't claim an innocent on me when at threat of lynch.

[Empking]

GF Empking would have no reason to fear me.

Agreed.
Why wouldn't he want you dead though to at least make the day a 50/50 debate between town/scumbuddy Thor/MoS for the win?

As is he left you alive so you could bust his buddy so he could keep playing for another Day?

I'm very strongly thinking I'm going to vote Ant soon.

@Emp - why did you believe Ant right away with his MoS investigate?

Because he's Chuck the town Cop. He's town and he's right.

[Empking]

GF Empking would have no reason to fear me.

Agreed.
Why wouldn't he want you dead though to at least make the day a 50/50 debate between town/scumbuddy Thor/MoS for the win?

As is he left you alive so you could bust his buddy so he could keep playing for another Day?

I'm very strongly thinking I'm going to vote Ant soon.

@Emp - why did you believe Ant right away with his MoS investigate?

Because he's Chuck the town Cop.

[Empking]

@Emp - why the change there?

What change?

[Empking]

@Emp - why the change there?

What change?

Oh just saw it. I didn't want to be presumptive or patronising.

[Empking]

Ellie Bartowski

[Empking]

Empking totally lurking out makes me pretty sure I'm right too.
Not.
A.
Peep.

Sorry? You spam, spam, spam the game in order to pretend that I'm not posting?

You're scum. From my POV you must be. Therefore discussing with you about your case would be pretty pointless wouldn't it?

Rag: Why do you think I'm scum?