Team Mafia: White Flag Mafia

[Equinox]

/confirm

[Equinox]

Let's wagon up this fellow.

Vote: InflatablePie

[Equinox]

Okay, so I'll be

V/LA Monday and Tuesday

of this week for finals and stuff. After that, it shall be a whirlwind of activity from me!

Noted.

Whoever is scum chose to be, so:
Why did each of you choose this game / why should I believe you're town?
Who are your teammates?

I love the White Flag setup. I read Mini 1030 and ran Open 268 (which was unbalanced), and I really like the concept of how the mafia need to adapt and how towns should be balanced with this handicap in mind.

Believe that I'm town only on my own merits and not because of what I would tell you about my preferences. I'd have taken this game regardless of the PM given to us. Oh, and it should be easy enough to figure us out, so I'll leave you to that.

---

I doubt Chris B is an alt. We had some discussion during the pre-game, and we came to the conclusion that his group most likely came from the same site. I have a tentative read based on this meta that I'm going to withhold in favor of grilling the guy for kicks.

Where?

I chose to not mention it, so of course it wouldn't be anywhere.

Let's just say that I think InflatablePie has a higher-than-random chance of being scum right now, and I think Thor665 saw the same thing. Join us on this lovely wagon? We can run after SocioPath later when we're through with inflating the pie.

[Equinox]

People on the mith wagon: Do you disagree with me and Thor665? Who what when where and why?

I love competing bandwagons and all, but I'd like one more slip of paper with InflatablePie's name on it to fall into the ballot box.

[Equinox]

Mod: Can we get a list of nonvoters, please? Thanks!

[Equinox]

Are people ignoring the InflatablePie wagon because he's scum?

DemonHybrid, Klazam, SocioPath: Get with the program, please. Explain why you disagree with the other wagon or die.

[Equinox]

Uh, you just hammered. Congratulations.

[Equinox]

3. Question for you: Why focus on IP and not other players with strong scumgames who Llamarble mentioned? Sotty, DGB, Thor and mith (from what I recall) all have strong scum games and you hadn't really focused on talking about them.

How do I say this... It wasn't so much InflatablePie's preference for scum games -- as I wasn't aware of that -- but more something I picked up that led me and my team to conclude he may be scum in this game. I chose to not mention people with strong scum games like Llamarble because I do not play like him, and I'll eventually get reads on those people without naming them.

I was hoping I could get people to react to wagons and stuff, given how scum would have to be careful about that, but I guess we'll see how things go on Day 2.

Edit: 7? Oh, damn me. I'm a derp. I thought it was 5 to lynch for some reason. LlamaFluff, read the above and then read Thor665's comment, and connect the dots. That was not a random wagon at all.

[Equinox]

EBWOP: Scratch the second paragraph of that, seeing as I forgot to remove it during preview.

[Equinox]

Klazam, it has to do with team composition and... etc. I'm gagged.

LlamaFluff, the InflatablePie wagon was not random, and I thought that should have been apparent when Thor665 sheeped me on it with his reasoning. Instead, all I saw was, "mith mith mith mith!" Clearly RVS wagon over an obvious non-RVS serious wagon? Yeah, no thanks.

[Equinox]

I'm wagoning someone I strongly believe to be scum. Am I not allowed to get people to stop pulling unreadable crap like, "Hey, mith is here; let's vote him for lulz!" and be accountable to a wagon? Besides, I was not baiting hammers; if you'll notice, I didn't bait votes after Klazam's. Sorry if I don't like posting threshold warnings.

Edit: ...what the hell? I did not sign up to bash my head in, you dolts.

Unvote, Vote: LlamaFluff

[Equinox]

Equinox- I'm not sure how useful team meta information can be because you cannot discount the possibility for a team getting all town or all scum.

True. However, things start getting fun when you aggregate all available information and then discuss it with 3 other sets of eyes. That's the sort of thing I was working with.

If you strongly believe me to be scum, Equi, why switch off now?

It's page 3, and we have people who have yet to post. Besides, I'm chasing after a different skirt now; sorry, man.

[Equinox]

LlamaFluff, are you scum? I'm having a very hard time believing you would completely miss something of this magnitude. Fine, me being unable to say anything doesn't help matters any, but you're still on this whole "Equinox was baiting votes" thing when I was getting people to explain why they were ignoring the wagon in favor of voting mith, a wagon so full of lulz that I felt was not going to launch this game anywhere out of RVS.

Accountability was all I wanted, and I selected the people on the mith wagon who I felt were questionable: SocioPath because I wanted to hear from him for :meta: reasons, DemonHybrid because he just sheeped it onto the mith wagon, and Klazam for essentially the same reason as DemonHybrid.

[Equinox]

What was the justification behind not saying it?

I believe I have already made the answer to this extremely obvious. If you are somehow unable to glean that reason from my posts so far, I'm afraid I cannot help you because that would mean I'd have to step over a line. I'm sure nobody wants that happening. In fact, I'm not even sure if I've hinted too much already.

In other news, I'm still not happy with the line of questioning against me, as I really don't think LlamaFluff would be this dense as town. InflatablePie is probably scum, part of that is lolsecretmeta and part of that is his behavior in this game, particularly the "casualness" he displayed earlier -- which doesn't come off as genuine -- and the L-1 self-vote bait. DemonHybrid and Thor665 are probably town; the former for fishing for alignments earlier, the latter for being on the same wavelength as me, which suggests he's pro-town and therefore carries an awesome beard. Team speculation leaves SocioPath as potential scum, but we'll see how things go in the actual thread. Fence-sitting on Klazam right now.

[Equinox]

Ahahaha. Thanks for confirming my read of you, Chris B. For the folks listening in, I've mentioned previously that I think Chris B may be teamed up with people who are from the same site. If you'll check his posting on this site so far, you will see why. I don't think his team would let him touch a scum role PM; playing scum successfully requires some knowledge of the feel of this site, and obviously with post 78 just now, Chris B does not qualify. Further, you can't expect a newbie to last long in Team Mafia's player list, particularly newbie scum. Thus, Chris B is very likely town.

Llamarble's probably town, too. That means I've got 4 town reads in 4 pages... eh, not a record, but I've been spamming anyway.

Chris B, the RVS was a big deal here because I saw little reason for people to be loading their votes on mith. (I'm waiting on a teammate to check whether or not I'm running my mouth too far here, so I'll do an EBWOP for this later.) Relevancy trumps random votes, any day.

[Equinox]

Thanks for cutting out the relevant part of the quote about why I put you on that list, SocioPath. No brownie points for you.

What is it with you people and not reading the game? You can't all be scum.

Anyway, I got an answer back about this:

Chris B, the RVS was a big deal here because I saw little reason for people to be loading their votes on mith. (I'm waiting on a teammate to check whether or not I'm running my mouth too far here, so I'll do an EBWOP for this later.) Relevancy trumps random votes, any day.

Apparently, what I was going to say was going to risk death and destruction for us all, so let's go with this. Something happened somewhere, and based on the information I had about InflatablePie, it meant that he was possibly scum. How I wish I could get into more detail, but I don't want to lose my head over this, so :dealwithit: until InflatablePie does stuff.

[Equinox]

EBWOP:

On second thought, let's roll with this.

Unvote, Vote: SocioPath

I'm going to let the thread breathe now.

[Equinox]

I chose to not mention lynch thresholds. Bite me.

2. His reaction to thinking InflatablePie had been hammered... not the reaction I would be expecting for someone who has strong (?) reasons for thinking IP is scum.

Page 2, 3-4 slots hadn't chimed in at all, and only a few slots had made any significant contribution. Scum lynch or not, the hammer dropping in that situation was suboptimal.

If I post in here again, noose me because I'll flunk otherwise.

[Equinox]

Short post since my paper is due like real soon and something my team said compelled me.

InflatablePie looks townish from his last few posts. Gonna look over teams and stuff later when I'm done with my final tomorrow and see how to deal with that there. Sotty7, I'm going to say the same thing to you that I said to LlamaFluff; if you didn't get it, sorry, you ain't getting it. I can't get any more specific without risking modkill. You know. That's probably getting too close. Bleh. Dun kill me plz.

DrippingGoofball is probably scum. Hai Goofball. No, I'm not obvtown, sorry. By the way, Chris B is not an alt; we know, almost for a fact, whose team he is on and we saw evidence that he's very, very, very likely a raw newbie. (Who the heck would use an alt and fake the noob card for this, anyway? That defeats the purpose of something like this. Besides, faking noob cards is pretty damn low.) Soooo anyway where was I. Ah, right. Sotty7, I

did

wait for him to post; his post and my evidence connected pretty strongly, so yeah, he's tooooown.

I disagree with a lot of post 112. Let's start with... the stuff about me because the other stuff will take up time and that's something I need moar of right now. So, first off, I have been giving reads as I've been getting them with as much rationale as I could reasonably provide, so don't give me crap about that.

Something on my end was said about Klazam not putting thought into the game because of his "self-voting is scummy" comment. I'mma ignore the guy for now, though, since I think I'll see him better when he comes back.

Oh, also, InflatablePie, I don't vote people I think are town. Dunno how you got that. SocioPath misrepresented a quote from me -- BADLY -- and I threw a vote on him. I think said misrep is scummy due to his cutting off relevant context to make me look bad.

Yeah, I'm outta here.

[Equinox]

Hey hey HEY I'm here and stuff 'cuz my finals are done. Two things on my plate for the evenin':

1) Catch up and yell at some of you because INTERESTING THINGS were said in Equiteamland
2) Reread the entire game because it's page 8 and I'm not angry at LlamaFluff anymore

I'm posting this here because I may end up wandering away, since it's break and right now and I'd rather be doing anything but work. Mafia is work by the current definition. Uh, basically, what I'm asking is, hold me to this and make sure I keep my word, etc. Don't let me run off and play Portal or something.

Oh, and also, whoever came up with the term "team meta" (I think it was this thread, fuzzy memory at the moment), I love you so much and I'll be stealing it.

Okay, boom.

No, wait, before I go, lemme ask you lot something because something hit me and it might explain why stuff happened: Do you read your teammates' games?

Also, Sotty7, question was raised about your team; has your team done any team hunting at all?

[Equinox]

All right, folks, I'm doing this catch-up differently because quote-striping everyone in not-very-random-but-still-bloody-random order is a silly thing to do.

First in a series of many red-headed posts, a post specially made for Sotty7:

Damn Equi.... What's with the pole up your ass? I don't think I have ever seen you so up tight. This doesn't give me good vibes at all.

I wasn't riding you about giving no reads, I said you were up tight and you are. This does not resemble anything like Equitown I have seen before. Normally you roll your sleeves up and get down to business to busting heads. In this game you have been abrasive, condescending and extremely OTT. Why?

Tell me this, then: You catch a tell, a fairly strong one. Obviously, you're gagged and can't say anything, but you feel compelled to say

something

in the hopes that someone gets it because you can hardly say, "HE'S SCUM BECAUSE I KNOW HE IS" and form a serious wagon. Someone comes along to ask about this, and you drop increasingly obvious breadcrumbs. Said someone still does not get it; to make matters worse, that someone's questions seem to lead to a two-pronged fork in the road, and the road signs read: "<- LYNCH" and "MODKILL ->". Forget your read of that someone. How angry do you get?

That was me in my argument with LlamaFluff in a nutshell. In fact, I nearly swore him out for it, but I decided I didn't want a repeat of like 4 other games where I did something like that, so I just stewed about it instead. As for everything else, it's been typical Equinox, so I don't know why you think I've been acting so differently.

What's to disagree with here? You guys didn't give a reason yet.

Right. I didn't outright say the reason behind the vote; I think I was expecting too much of teams, since I thought everyone would be super awesome and cohesive, which would have meant plenty of communication and a lot of eyes to catch something that was, to us, really major. Anyway, I thought by that point Thor665* and I had made it clear it wasn't an RVS wagon, so watching people sheep on mith FOR PURE LULZ AND NOTHING ELSE really rubbed me as a scummy RVS wagon to counter a wagon that was 1) not RVS and 2) on someone I strongly believed to be scum at the time (now hold that thought).

* = I read later that Thor665 voted SocioPath for his "/conform" post and not That Thing, which means what I said above no longer applies. That is still the thought process I had at the time.

Contesting your town read of her is one of many bad bad things she posted.

Why should I not contest DrippingGoofball's town read of me? For one thing, DrippingGoofball has stated herself that she has difficulties reading me; the closest approximation I can make to what she said without diving into the original thread itself (In the Court of the Gods, if you're interested) is: "I've won games as obvtown scum before," and that was in response to people yelling at her that I was obvtown.

Therefore, when she suddenly proclaimed me as obvtown for things like activity and "jumping right in" -- both things that made me extremely obvtown in Court -- that sent up red flags.

Weak, weak, weak. If it wasn't a scum tell you could talk about, THEN YOU SHOULDN'T MENTION IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Why? Because it gives scum perfect excuse to semi seriously wagon someone for top secret reasons. Now I have no clue if your push on Pie was legit or what, all I have is you talking down to people “who don't get it” and you now completely ignoring the info generated from your “gambit”.

Keep in mind that I seriously thought InflatablePie was scum at that point. I've given my reasons for giving hints above, so I won't go into it again; however, I expected LlamaFluff to catch my drift after my third or fourth try, and him continuing to egg me to go straight for the modkill was NOT how I was planning on spending my evening. Whether or not he was doing that intentionally, I don't know; I don't want to think that he did, so I'm left with an argument that went sour and was too emotionally-charged for me to get a proper read from it.

But that does remind me Post 80 is extremely gloatly.

We've been doing a lot of team hunting since pre-game to get as many reads and potential wagons as possible, and we pegged Chris B as town weeks before the game started. ...so yeah, I'm probably really gloaty.

I actually don't think she was defending [Chris B] either. The gloating was too rich and natural for that.

Oh, but I was.

Next in the series: Chris B

[Equinox]

EBWOP: My read of Sotty7 at the moment leans town. I'll dive into context a bit and then explain its relevancy here: Out of the games I've played with Sotty7, there were (I think) two games where she incorrectly read me, and both of those times resulted in emotional explosions on my part. Sotty7-scum can very easily end my usefulness to a town by getting me riled up, and she had an avenue to do so when I accessed the site during my V/LA. Instead, her posts were aimed at sussing out my alignment. She's wrong, unfortunately, but either that gets fixed as time goes on or she finds out from TheButtonmen.

Call that buddying if you want, but that's my read of her.

Off to fire off another response, and then I continue catching up.

[Equinox]

You mean voted me, right? <_<

Whoops. Yes, I did.

Your vote reminds me that I had something I wanted to poke DrippingGoofball about.

You've obvtown... AGAIN. You just can't help it.

Is that why you had me vigged?

Seriously, though, in that game, you dismissed my high activity and devil-may-cry play in zoraster's game when people confronted you about your scum read of me. That should point to those two tells being null in your eyes; what changed between then and now?

[Equinox]

Part 2 of this totally amazing series that you should be reading: Chris B

I do question the motives behind posts made by anyone who's obviously done just that searching before I make a post in the game though.

Our team is playing to win the competition in addition to the four individual games. We will, and have, do(ne) the research.

Though if you're curious, we saw a name in the player lists we had never seen before, and this name had made zero posts on the forum. We assumed that there were 3 people familiar with you enough to put you on a team for something like this, and I was elitist enough to believe that 1) you'd be facing a learning curve and 2) the team would not hand you a scum role PM for precisely that reason.

I did consider your possible experience off-site a little, but I'll freely admit that I dismissed it. Unless said site is similar to the mafiascum.net style here, there's going to be some culture shocks; if you're scum, it would become fairly apparent. I think that, between the four of us, we've seen enough new-to-mafiascum.net experienced players to be able to spot them.

Not to mention the people who I think are on your team would expect this of the other Team Mafia players.

...all of that makes me sound like a total cock, doesn't it. Meh.

It strikes me more as trying to get a reaction, by implying I'm the total n00b of the team. So what reaction were you going for? It's the first time I've ever seen a read on someone before they've actually posted.

Eh, not really. That was a real read. I was prepared to completely switch if you'd displayed a poor reaction or something, though.

Oh, that was short. I don't know yet who gets the next awesome installment that is PART 3. It shall be a surprise, I guess.

[Equinox]

Hey, LlamaFluff. You were all over me earlier in the day for being overly coy or something, and now it's like I've fallen off the face of the planet. I mean, I guess I did for a couple of days, but that shouldn't matter in the larger picture. So, what's up?

[Equinox]

In other words, you don't think I'm town, but you're not going to put pressure on me because the other skirts look prettier.

Cool, I guess.

[Equinox]

Okay, so I was planning on busting out a list of reads based on a full reread, but I'm falling asleep right now and I only got as far as the middle of page 7. Gonna continue this in the morning.

Unvote

[Equinox]

Two things caught my eye here:

Vote Equinox

Very unrandom. There is no backing to an IP wagon as herp-derping is not a scumtell, just a competence one. Equinox is pushing it more then "random wagon" on something like this being a tell.

Other good votes are marble and Klazam.

@DH - A better way to get out of the RVS is to vote someone who has done something scummy. Which has happened already. You can give it to Equniox for trying to bait someone into hammering if you want to transcend the aformentioned points of trying to run up IP as a random wagon. Super cool part of all of this? Equinox-IP is already out as a scumteam.

In between, there's some rabble from me explaining that it was a team tell (which went woosh) and DemonHybrid asking about using meta to kick off RVS.

(Upon reread, I

still

think my explanation there was obvious. Eh, to each his own, I guess.)

So, yeah, what made you change your opinion here from Equinox/Klazam/Llamarble as good votes to an Equinox/InflatablePie scum team?

[Equinox]

The next post from me is going be a bit more comprehensive and current. I hope. For now, though, I need to see how Klazam's brain works because I want to know him better before I eat his creamy nougat center.

PEdit: IP self voting? that is scummy, indeed. I'm starting to like where my vote is.

You mention later in your list of reads that you still saw some of InflatablePie's moves as scummy and thus read him overall as "null, leaning scum." Therefore, I'll go ahead and assume nothing changed from this point.

Considering the inherent handicap to scum in this setup, how would InflatablePie's L-1 vote have benefited scum?

---

@Equinox: I think when he said "IP + Eq are out as a team" he was ruling the pair out, not saying he thought that was the pairing.

Oh, wait, that actually makes sense. Post 57 makes sense now.

Uh, yeah, scratch post 216.

[Equinox]

I like ... [DrippingGoofball's] Equinox townread.

*eyes Llamarble*

[Equinox]

What stands out to me the most is the 'OMG, IP is such scum' followed by the 'nah, he's totally, like, town guys!' thing. Being able to do that without talking about what the crap you're on about is bad going.

Yep, that sounds like Equinox to me.

Going by instinct and behavior is fine, but you need to consider motivation, too. For instance, how would aggressive play benefit scum? (I'd say this as both alignments, FTR. Doesn't make me look town.)

[Equinox]

Oh, hey, DrippingGoofball only has 3 votes. I want in.

Vote: DrippingGoofball

(Go iso me if you want to know why.)

In other news, I'm going to go ahead and finish reading and have reads.

[Equinox]

Bluh.

I promised I'd have a reread done 3 days ago, and here we are today... and I haven't finished it, nor will I ever finish it because I have successfully fallen asleep while on the task somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 times, and I've been distracted by other SHINY stuff for countless times more.

Therefore, screw it. I'm forcibly ejecting myself from reread hell and just working with what I've got and what my little birdies tell me. Here is where I stand.

Town: InflatablePie, Chris B, Sotty7, Klazam, Thor665
Null: mith*, LlamaFluff*, SocioPath, Sevei
Scum: DrippingGoofball, DemonHybrid*, Llamarble*

Anyway, you're probably interested in seeing how I got to some of these, so I've marked special ones with asterisks.

LlamaFluff is listed in null, but I lean town on the guy; his explanation about not wanting to engage to prevent an unreadable back-and-forth comes off as town to me. Further, if DemonHybrid is indeed scum, LlamaFluff is much more likely to be town.

Llamarble is someone I'm waiting to hear from because the "I like [DrippingGoofball's] town read of Equinox" line caught my attention, since I'd just attacked her for that. While posting reads from an iso (especially a DrippingGoofball iso) means you're going to miss context, Llamarble posted pretty soon after I made that accusation against DrippingGoofball and should've been fairly current with the thread. Also, there's something about the constant "paranoia" about me that bugs me. For instance, I've played as town against people like Sotty7, Vi, and VP Baltar before, and those 3 are good examples of scum who I'd probably get pantsed by 10 out of 10 times; sure, I'll be paranoid about them and keep my guard up, but I wouldn't feel the need to constantly say that in the game. Looks to me like he's trying too hard to look like a paranoid townie.

Funny story about DemonHybrid that you guys aren't gonna like, but it's funny anyway, so I'mma tell you. I threw out the first vote of the day on InflatablePie because I thought I'd caught a team meta tell on him. The birdies and I had a discussion yesterday night, and we figured out that we had messed up the teams. The person the accusation should have been made on was DemonHybrid. (The moment I'm at liberty to do so, I swear I will be a lot more specific; for now, let's just say I saw something somewhere that's a very strong indication about one specific team's composition.) He's down there for that. Now, I haven't read DemonHybrid-mith at all because my eyes started glazing over after the first couple and I just gave up. From a skim, they look to be like "YOU SAID THIS" "NO I SAID THIS" "NO U" anyway, so I probably haven't missed anything.

Birdies tell me they have a town read on mith. The couple of posts I actually did read feel like gut town, but I'd like to read the actual DemonHybrid-mith argument before I settle down on this.

There you have it.

[Equinox]

I bring a message from an angry birdie: "You're lucky I'm not in your game because I'd dayvig you." (That's not a quote.)

Does it have anything at all to do with my preference for being town?

No. Though if you have documentation stating this, that'd be great so I can sling the birdies elsewhere.

Equi's posts, from #83 on: You know....you mentioned a LOT about other people, but...SP only twice. Once saying that he misrepped a quote from you....but that's it. All the while, you kept your vote on him until you can re-do your reads. That was like...10 of your posts into the future.

[Equinox]

If you prefer town, DrippingGoofball, why did you choose scum in Pledge of Allegiance?

[Equinox]

I'm back, so now you get to put up with me spamming before the thread lock!

Why should one of the rest of us hammer this lynch? In no more than a paragraph, please.

DrippingGoofball knows I am town; thus, she is scum. ^*

All right, joking aside, her town read of me despite what happened in that game I linked in the asterisk raised flags. Her reaction to the wagon reads like scum frustrated that she's getting called out for the wrong reasons, as well. Further, she's calling out Thor665 for making "baseless meta arguments" when that's the exact same thing I did with InflatablePie, except that I was nowhere near as explicit as Thor665 has been.

Now reads: My town reads are solid; my teammates agree with me, so I know I'm not insane. LlamaFluff is probably town. Llamarble needs to provide hard and fast content when the sun rises. I'd like to know where Sevei stands on more than DrippingGoofball/Llamarble, and she needs to post more content in general. (Sevei's hammer after LlamaFluff's call to move to his Sevei wagon also raises flags, hopefully white ones.) Tweets tell me that SocioPath might be scum; I can't read the guy for beans, but I'll give it a shot again with a quick skim after this.

Also I saw that you didn't like DGB's townread on you, but I disagreed with your dislike. I think "I am not obvtown" is something very hard / weird for scum to say, so DGB's response after made plenty sense to me as well.

Fun fact: DrippingGoofball hasn't responded to that charge from me at all, so there's no "response after" of which to make sense. If you meant this, that is null; if anything, scum seem to think I'm more obvtown than town does.

[Equinox]

Hey, Sevei. i herd u liek scum. Confirm/deny?

The Voices™ are giving me a money-back guarantee in Sevei-scum, but are also saying that DGB is good at talking her way out of lynches as scum.

I'd say DrippingGoofball tried.

[Equinox]

Not really. I've been scum in one game since I started playing and it didn't go well. Nacho busted me.

Can I get a link (or game name), please?

[Equinox]

This Day has gone far too long for my liking and I want blood. I don't care anymore, I am insanely bored with this game, and if she's not scum

you can lynch me tomorrow

. Sound good?

What is this blasphemy coming from your mouth, InflatablePie?

(Also, I'm pretty sure Sevei hammered. Though it's pretty much public knowledge that I stink at arithmetic, so...)

[Equinox]

Vote: Llamarble

[Equinox]

I'd like to get a general opinion on whether or not people believe that scum would be more inclined not to bus, especially with someone like DGB.

Bussing early game-wise in White Flag isn't impossible, but I believe that if scum bussed at all, their votes would be one of the last ones on the wagon. Playing the rest of the game in sudden death mode would be insanely scary, and scum would figure that everyone would be on the lookout for possible connections.

That being said, I'd be more interested in the votes off the wagon right now; I highly doubt that both scum would bus, and it's much more likely that at least one -- if not both -- of her buddies did not bus.

Equinox is even more town.

Okay, this is the sort of thing that raises my hackles. I vote you straight out of the gate, and then you present this case for why I am town, the majority of which were from Day 1 actions. The only thing that changed about me was my vote on DrippingGoofball's wagon; everything else still had the shadow of "Equinox snowed me completely in Mini 1073." Heck, I was your top town read that game for doing "all the usual nice towntelly things."

I don't think my vote on DrippingGoofball was all that pivotal, either. If anything, I think my case on her was largely ignored, and my vote came after others had already piled on. You have seen me bus before, too.

Yeah, don't buddy up to the Equinox. It doesn't work.

Sorry, InflatablePie. I'm keeping my vote right here.

[Equinox]

Unvote

Catching up now. Gonna do some more reading after that. Heads up that I may have to leave for a few hours later tonight, so if I don't finish before I leave, I'm picking the thread apart when I wake up tomorrow.

[Equinox]

Real quick here because I can't be arsed with a long-winded post and analysis right now.

Town: InflatablePie, Thor665, mith, Sotty7, Chris B

Llamarble is probably town, as well, so I will be laying off him.

What I'm doing now is tracking down the others' voting patterns and tying them to whatever stances they've stated in the thread. I've got a line of thought about how the DrippingGoofball wagon built as SocioPath pushed it and as the votes piled, so that's what I'm investigating. I'm about halfway; it's getting late, though, and I'll probably collapse at a moment's notice; the finish line will have to wait (again) until tomorrow. Hold me to this, please? I'd rather not slack off again.

By the way, I like the idea of tracking down connections, but I won't be personally doing so until later in the day when we've had stances and wagons flung about to the point where the words "sudden death" start to chafe and scum are forced to play to a pattern.

In the meantime, here are some of my current areas of interest.

Sevei:

Opinions on every player in the game now, please. You've been doing quite a bit of talking

to

players but almost zero talking

about

them.

@Thor: I picked this game because VT is my favorite role. Things feel more like being in a sherlock holmes novel instead of some sort of uninteresting game of hide-from-the-spotlight.

Help me out a bit here: Let's say you had a choice of townie PM between this game and another game. Why did you choose this one?

[Equinox]

EBWOP:

I'm about halfway; it's getting late, though, and I'll probably collapse at a moment's notice; the finish line will have to wait (again) until tomorrow.

Pretend I didn't just insert two semicolons in a single sentence. That's embarrassing.

[Equinox]

Hang on, I screwed up. Sorry, DemonHybrid; you don't need to answer that question.

That means I get to slap this down.

Vote: Sevei

[Equinox]

I'm tempted to move my vote... but I like it where it is right now, too.

Hard decisions are hard.

(In other news, I'm forcing myself to do work right now so that I'll have yesterday's post today. Gah.)

(Also, DrippingGoofball can manipulate vote counts, but her buddies probably can't.)

[Equinox]

While she didn't push the Alt bit, she did push the idea of my game being viewed as lesser.

1) Aggression is not a scum tell.
2) This is your first game on this site, and the fact is that you are inexperienced.

Have I discredited your reads? No. When I had different reads from you, I explained why. I argued about your experience level to show why I believe your team would not give you a scum role PM, and that was it. I touched briefly upon your inexperience to show you why your read of me was wrong, but I believe that was it.

What I am going to do now, however, is yell at you for tunneling me. That

is

due to inexperience, and that's because you have no idea how rough some players can get here and that it's not necessarily alignment-related (but it does depend on the player). I can also tell you that aggression from me, specifically, is not alignment-related, and you can see that yourself on my wiki page where all of my games are linked.

It was also a very obvious misunderstanding, and I suspect an on-the-ball scum team would have gone 'hey, you realise you look like an idiot there, right?'.

Are you saying that scum have day talk?

[Equinox]

I could've sworn something was said about mafia QuickTopics in the Team Mafia MD thread, but now I can't find it. Eh. My teammate suggested giving asking TheButtonmen a shot, so here we go:

Mod: Do the mafia have day talk?

No.

In any case, I'm happy with Chris B's explanation.

In other news, LlamaFluff has, like, 5 suspects and he's given wiggling room on all of them, which makes my voting finger twitch. However, I shall be good and sit on the Sevei wagon because I'm pretty sure of that one, and Sevei's play so far has betrayed a lack of curiosity that is scummy.

[Equinox]

I know we're in White Flag and all, but the scum still have only 3 mislynches to burn through. This was you:

mith/Sotty/marble (well three lynch, I cant see the game progressing past that. throw either thor or sevei in as last one) Even MORE likely is one of Sotty/marble. I like that idea here, I can see mith flipping town. I cant see sotty AND marble flipping town.

Here's how I read it: "Well, I'm voting mith. I can see him being town, though. Oh, yeah, if Sotty7 flips town, then it's definitely Llamarble." That sounded like you trying to chain lynches and yet give yourself a way to do so. You then happily tack on one of Sevei or Thor665 to the end. Uh, yeah.

My teammate's telling me I'm nuts because you're basically doing what InflatablePie's doing, so who knows? (Look at me prepare to backpedal, whee!) I wish you'd join the Sevei wagon, though; one more vote (I think?) should help me cement what sort of wagon this is. And if there's a quick hammer or something after that, you guys can hold me responsible for that.

In other news, this thread needs more Sevei and more votes because wagons are actually SUPAH HAWT when scum are in sudden death mode. Actually, now that I've looked at the Activity Overview, what happened to Klazam?

Hey, Klazam's and Sevei's teams, if you're reading this, would you please prod them? Thanks!

This thread also needs more analytical Equinox, but I'm actually feeling massively lazy. Can someone help me out by calling me scum for stalling or something so that I can get motivated?

[Equinox]

Also, Sotty, I'm waiting for Sevei's scum meta. I need to do a bit of research; Sevei says she's a bad scum player and I'd like to apply that to this game.

I'mma go ahead and answer this because I want to force Sevei to answer my question and not pretend to skip it by answering this one. Iso Sevei; she gave me her scum meta earlier.

[Equinox]

Real quickly:

^so if we can all agree on the two most likely town in this group (because the other players seem to be unanimous townreads) we can just chain-lynch from there.

mith, Sotty7, Llamarble, and DemonHybrid can be knocked out and roughly in that order. I don't particularly care to check and that's where I stand right now anyway.

b) not interested in having my reads manipulated by scum.

Do you have a previous game or discussion post where you state this particular stance? If you've linked it already, just point me back to it. Thanks.

[Equinox]

Earlier in the game, the way Sotty7 was sussing me out felt like Sotty7-town. She knows how I can go into RAGE mode and that basically shuts me down, but her probing didn't feel like going toward that objective. I probably explained it better when I saw it; it's in my iso.

[Equinox]

Equi: you mean knocked out as in those four are probtown, right? Making sure. <_<

I just laughed a little because I misread something from LlamaFluff earlier for that terminology too. Welp. Yes, sir, those folks are probably town.

Equinox: Might of Mordor, LOTR mini-theme. It took me a while to find it, but it's the one time I remember saying something about it b/c MoI-scum (aka MasterSpy hydra) was in my face about it (mainly because he was my top scum read). That game was intense. Way, way, WAY too intense. http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p2811263

Thanks for this. Quick glance says yes to the theory stance in general, but I'll go take a deeper look at this later.

Narrowing it down to four is easy: one of these is definitely scum: IPie, Thor, Marble, Equinox.

Of those 4, I am definitely throwing out InflatablePie, Thor665, and Equinox. If either Apple Pie or Charming Beard are scum, I'm eating a hat. I don't think Llamarble is scum, either.

[Equinox]

You know what's making me itch? In a situation like this, scum are going to try to defuse wagons, whether it's to save their buddy or to mask the time when they do have to save their buddy, and LlamaFluff's attempts to push people off the Sevei wagon irks me in that regard. I also don't see the cases on either mith or Sotty7.

However, I'm going to go have a look at Sevei's link and Sotty7's voting movements and see what LlamaFluff's on about.

Chris B and DemonHybrid need to commit their vote to something, too.

[Equinox]

A teammate of mine thinks she's scum, though, because Socio drew a link between Equinox and DGB and then got NKed.

I'm a little surprised that it took this long for someone to point that out, but I shall say this regardless: Tell your teammate to sit and think for a moment about what it means to bus in White Flag, to look at SocioPath's position on the DrippingGoofball wagon, and then look up Occam's Razor on Wikipedia.

Even the scum in zoraster's previous White Flag game waited until Day 2 before they bussed. (Not saying that it's a point in my favor for voting DrippingGoofball because I do actually bus as scum, but that may point to the reason why SocioPath got shot.)

[Equinox]

The fact he was under pressure when he did makes me grouchy, plus the fact you took the spot over your teammate. So, part meta, part annoyance maybe?

Why would Amrun, specifically, replacing in have mattered?

[Equinox]

Yo, DemonHybrid. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 representing greatest difficulty and 10 representing greatest ease, how do you find DrippingGoofball in terms of trying to read her?

(Okay, I suppose I want much more than a number, but I didn't know how to phrase it and not make it a leading question.)

[Equinox]

EBWOP:

Yo, DemonHybrid. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 representing greatest difficulty and 10 representing greatest ease, how do you find DrippingGoofball in terms of trying to read her?

This question is in general and not to this game specifically.

[Equinox]

While I'm in agreement with a lot of what Amrun says, I'm missing the argument that Sotty is town. I'm willing to hear a counter argument before I vote.

I'd like to hear why you disagree with the arguments for Sotty7-scum pushed thus far first.

I also firmly believe DGB got bussed.

Do you believe that both scum buddies bussed her or that one was on and one was off? (If you've stated this already, feel free to point me back to it.)

[Equinox]

EBWOP:

I'd like to hear why you disagree with the arguments for Sotty7

-town

pushed thus far first.

[Equinox]

WHAT IS THIS RAINBOW VOTE COUNT ON DAY 2 OF WHITE FLAG WITH A SCUM LYNCH

WE NEED WAGONS AND BLOODLUST

(Okay, I will admit that I'm contributing to the problem, but I really do think we need to agree on something here and then push that wagon because that's the best way to milk White Flag for all the awesomeness it has to offer. Seriously. And I'll figure out what to do with my vote when I'm done with this mega-analysis.)

[Equinox]

DemonHybrid, I've got a couple more questions:

1) Chris B slipped earlier that he thought scum would have corrected their buddies' behaviors during the day, and we don't have day talk in this game. What do you think this says about his alignment?

2) You've been onto mith since the start of the day and haven't relented; why did you wait so long before voting him?

Thor665, an excuse to better admire your charming beard: What are your current reads of Sevei and Sotty7?

[Equinox]

Last post and then I'm letting this thread breathe for 8 hours.

Unvote

I'm pushing my analysis (yes, again) because I'd like to sleep. It's getting done because I actually worked on quite a bit today, soooo I'm not just blowing a bunch of air. I'll figure out what to do with my vote before the end of tomorrow, whether it's to join a wagon or spark a new one.

Both scum were not off the wagon. No way.

Which do you think is more likely: Both scum bussing DrippingGoofball, or one scum bussing and one scum not?

I'm also going to follow up on this from InflatablePie...

Keep in mind, IIRC, wasn't Marble the wagon opposite to DGB on D1?

Am I the only one that finds this a point in his favor?

Below are two separate snapshots of when each wagon was at its peak:

DrippingGoofball (7) - SocioPath, Thor665, InflatablePie, Equinox, Sotty7, mith, Sevei

Llamarble (4) - Sotty7, LlamaFluff, Sevei, Chris B

If my vote on the DrippingGoofball wagon is any indication, I'd guess that the third vote activated the snowball. Still, I think the Llamarble wagon grew to a significant enough size; furthermore, my spreadsheet seems to point it being a wagon that was formed simultaneously with the DrippingGoofball wagon. I'm inclined to agree with InflatablePie here and say that this points to Llamarble being an unlikely scum buddy to DrippingGoofball; no matter what LlamaFluff says about the power of a bus increasing the earlier it happens, I would be insanely scared to play in sudden death mode for the next 4 days, and I'd expect even the best and ballsiest of scum to feel the same way. Thus, they'd at least try and see if they could get someone else lynched first.

I'll note that Sotty7's vote on Llamarble was made before SocioPath created the DrippingGoofball wagon, so her vote there isn't too incriminating, in my view. I stand by my logic earlier on Day 1 about her not attacking me to screw up the game state for town. Still, I guess I'll go take a look and see what the hubbub is about in the morning.

I'm actually really tempted to join InflatablePie and wagon up LlamaFluff, but I wouldn't be able to articulate why beyond "GUT!" and that small thing above... and I'm actually not comfortable with having only that much for a Day 2 wagon.

Yeah, I'll just come back when I know what the heck I'm doing.

[Equinox]

Okay, this is how I'm going to run this evening. I'm going to finish what I was doing last night because I want to spend Saturday finishing a really good but long book, and this is the game that's been preventing me from doing that. I am telling you guys this because I want to pressure myself into finishing and not drawing this thing out for an entire month. Sotty7's teammate would know what I'm talking about, probably.

BUT that's not what I'm here for. I am here to say that I am standing my ground and not lynching any of the following people you lot have on your lists: Amrun, Chris B, Sotty7, Thor665

I will actually eat hats if any of those 4 are scum. Reasoning or loud proclamations of "GUT!" will be provided upon request.

Stuff about Sevei: I did some looking up of Sevei's meta earlier and found that: a) she actually does believe in not revealing stances (:glare:), and b) she lurked hardcore in New Designer Mafia as town. Amrun's stated this already, I think. Thus, my case on her essentially falls to mostly null, and then I see people arguing for Sevei-town based on her reaction to the wagon and I think I will agree with it. Thus, I won't be entertaining a Sevei lynch today. HOWEVER, the Activity Overview says she's been silent for 2 days, and I'm getting annoyed. That slot needs a warm body ASAP; team, please deliver.

Other stuff: I'm torn on DemonHybrid at the moment. Team meta says kill him with fiery passion; on the other hand, DemonHybrid said he chose this game because he didn't like "playing in the shadows" (paraphrased) which would point to him taking this game. Noooow here's the fun part. He could be town. I'm getting townish vibes off him -- similar to Chris B, probably -- and my teammate's been saying the same thing for a while.

I'm going to go reread mith. My current stance on him is town, but I don't remember why and that's a sign I should reevaluate. That leaves me with... LlamaFluff and Llamarble. I've been twitching on LlamaFluff for a while, so I need to read there, too. Llamarble I got townish feels from his posting earlier in the day because of his attempts to scum hunt, but if I've narrowed things down this far, then I need to reread him anyway.

Actually, reading through that, no pairs among {LlamaFluff, Llamarble, mith} make sense to me, which means I have scum floating among the town reads somewhere. DAMMIT.

Hopefully this game will make sense to me when I'm done rereading. Pick my thoughts above as you please, seeing as I probably will need critiques.

Oh, and also, we are not lynching from lists. Thought about that overnight after seeing Sotty7^(?) mention it and it's better if we go the traditional way about this. Something's bothering me about the list approach (not the fact that it was suggested but how it's being manipulated in general), so I'll have a look-see there later, too.

[Equinox]

Sotty7, what do you think of LlamaFluff's explanation that scum would be playing to the long-term and bus early?

[Equinox]

I took a look, and I have seen something quite marvelous.

Unvote, Vote: LlamaFluff

[Equinox]

You're going to need to explain more than that, Equinox.

I want to see what LlamaFluff says first. It's related to InflatablePie's case, though.

Actually, if you think he misinterpreted LlamaFluff's point, I might have, as well, so... what do you think LlamaFluff was trying to say there?

[Equinox]

I'll trade. I looked over LlamaFluff's iso and didn't see him speculate an Amrun-DemonHybrid pairing at any point. That and the possibility of a LlamaFluff wagon had me all sparkly-eyed and I just had to join it.

[Equinox]

LlamaFluff, how did you come up with Amrun-DemonHybrid being the only possible pair for hypothetical Amrun-scum? (If you've said this already, feel free to point me back.)

[Equinox]

Because I thought that Ipie would regard that as Llama "backtracking"

[Equinox]

Oh, no, that's not what I was reacting to. I was shocked at your explanation. If LlamaFluff is town, he should be able to defend himself on his own terms. Instead, you didn't trust him to be able to do that and galloped in, banners raised, for fear that InflatablePie would accuse LlamaFluff of backtracking.

I'm not against people defending their town reads -- I do that myself -- but in this case, that was a poor move, as you could have simply waited to get reactions from both InflatablePie and LlamaFluff before acting. I'm just stuck deciding on whether or not you'd do this as scum for your scum buddy because it's too bloody obvious of a move, but...

damn

.

[Equinox]

Have you NEVER seen town full on defend town before? I mean, I DO that in almost every game I play, and see someone else do it in almost every game. Get your head out of your ass and look at OTHER OPTIONS, even just CONSIDER them, and then tell me what you think.

Oh, I've defended town reads before. In fact, I've done it in this game. However, I believe there is a key difference between simply defending someone and interfering; what Amrun did was unnecessary, and she said herself that she didn't want you to say something and have InflatablePie accuse you. That stinks. Why not wait until InflatablePie makes that accusation and use that to get reactions from both you and InflatablePie? Even if she has strong town reads on both you and InflatablePie, it'd be best to let you defend yourself to allow everyone else the chance to evaluate

your

reaction and not hers.

I think Llamafluff could explain himself perfectly clearly, and I never have any issue understanding his posts.

Never before have I seen someone miss the point by so far. In fact, I couldn't find a pony picture adequate enough to describe my reaction.

---

The cross-defending between Amrun and LlamaFluff is giving me the twitches. I'm going to take a bit to think this over because I'm one of those folks who likes to take a few years to deliberate on things. That and I'll need a few sets of eyes to take a look at this and tell me if I'm being insane.

[Equinox]

Bit of an oddball question probably, but it's relevant: LlamaFluff, how are you usually with catching breadcrumbs? Links to games would be helpful, too.

[Equinox]

I did not forget that I asked you.

Ipie, you drastically misinterpreted (what I interpreted as) LlamaFluff's intent in that post.

This is from before I ever touched it.

Unvote, Vote: Amrun

[Equinox]

Pretty bad.

Hey, InflatablePie, remember that one time when you were hinting at something and LlamaFluff kinda pushed it and you thought it was egging you toward the modkill? (Hey, I thought the same thing at the start of Day 1.) This might be why.

Though he didn't provide my any links, so I gotta actually look this up myself... but it's a thought.

Let's wagon up Amrun, guys. Competing wagons for lulz?

[Equinox]

Okay, actually, now that I think about it, Amrun wasn't actually doing anything with that statement, though I wish she'd have waited for LlamaFluff to say that himself. Still, her explanation for jumping in stinks...

GAH. Gonna think about this more. I'll be on the road today, so I'll look at Sotty7 later.

Unvote

[Equinox]

How about this?

Unvote, Vote: DemonHybrid

I expect to return to SHINY THINGS.

[Equinox]

THERE ARE FOUR COMPETING WAGONS

FOUR

LLAMAFLUFF HAD BETTER HAVE SOME GOOD REASONS WHY STIRRING UP A FOURTH ONE IS A GOOD IDEA

[Equinox]

HEY, DEMONHYBRID. HEY.

Let me give you some meta evidence because I think it's the strongest point for Chris B.

Let's say you're getting together a team of four for Team Mafia. You've known these players from off-site, and you decide that you'll take someone from the old board, too, who has never played on mafiascum.net before. You look at the player list for Team Mafia, and you see it filled with experienced players, many of them experienced ICs and SEs. The PMs come in. For the sake of argument, you have one red PM and three green PMs. You look at your teammates...

Would you give the red PM to the guy who has never played here before?

[Equinox]

Because the Amrun one is due to fall apart and the similarities between the reasoning for the mith and Sotty wagons begs for both to be available to see what side people actually fall on when to near identical cases are pushed at the same time in hopes of finding even more possible parters for the two in question.

If the situation were indeed mith versus Sotty7, then I can see why you'd jump off Sotty7 and see where things go. However, from my standpoint, that isn't the case right now; you effectively reduced the Sotty7 wagon (someone you're reading, IIRC, as scum) that was competing with the DemonHybrid wagon (someone you're reading as town) to create a mith wagon... leading to the FABULOUSLY COLORFUL wagon we see in TheButtonmen's vote count. Deflate the DemonHybrid wagon if you want results out of the mith-Sotty7 dichotomy.

That said, what do you think of the DemonHybrid wagon and how it built up so far and the fact that both mith and Sotty7 are on it?

My teammate is also interested in the following hypothetical situation: If you were scum with DrippingGoofball, when and how would you have bussed her?

[Equinox]

Possibly. It depends on a ton of factors, like who that guy is and how competent of a scum player he is.

Do you think this would apply to Chris B?

ALSO, DEMONHYBRID, Outdoorsmen Mafia 2, you seem to remember that. You've played with DrippingGoofball-scum before. Thoughts?

[Equinox]

Thread and case explosion.

Unvote

Will look at the new stuff and all the old stuff I didn't get to yesterday in a few hours. Not feeling up to this right now.

[Equinox]

AAAAAAAHHHHHH!

DO YOU GUYS KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO TWITCH ALL OVER? IT'S TERRIBLE! TERRIBLE, I TELL YOU!

I'm going to confess right here and right now that I'm losing it, and I haven't had the motivation to do any of the rereading, metagaming, or analyzing that I said I'd do because, when I look at this thread, I just want to roll over and die. Whatever the reason, I can't get myself moving, and I don't think I've ever felt so apathetic about a game before. What experience is telling me is that there's a reason for this demoralization and that I should be starting from that reason to look for the manipulative scum puppet master, but I've tried and didn't get anywhere due to aforementioned apathy. Isn't that awesome?

Maybe I'm more than a little miffed that we've gone from "Hey, guys, this would make a nice town bloc" to "LET'S BREAK THE TOWN IN HALF." Do I think there is scum involved in this? Yes. I just don't have any idea where that scum may be. I'm tempted to just wagon one of the mith and Sotty7 wagons, get a flip, and then move on with life, but the fact that we went from consensus to chaos in this amount of time bothers me a great deal.

I've caught up in the thread, and I don't even understand half the cases being pushed. I put quite a bit of stock in my early reads, and some recent experiences tell me that I should be doing that more. What that means is I will not be partaking in the mith or Sotty7 wagons. DemonHybrid is going on a steep uphill climb with his Chris B case and taking a lot of heat for it, and I feel that's counterproductive to scum; I won't be joining that, either. If you guys have something really damning on any of those 3, put it in one concise post. I refuse to slog through all of this again without a flip.

LlamaFluff switching back and forth between the mith and Sotty7 wagons on what appears to be whimsies is driving me insane. It's like he's purposefully trying to be unreadable. I've questioned him left and right to see if I could read him better, but I've come up with practically nothing in either direction. If I were to say what I think of him now, I'd say I have a "logic" null read of him, but my gut has been on fire, and I'd dayvig him right now if I had that option. Sevei would be second because she's gone and disappeared again, which really is fantastic.

tl;dr - Wagon and flip somebody already, please. Though I'll be a good little scumbag and keep my mitts off the current hot wagons because I want this flip above all else. If some of you back-and-forth arguers would shut up for a minute and make your case within one post without building a giant Jenga tower of quotes, I might look at it.

Vote: LlamaFluff

Screw you all.

[Equinox]

Hey, Thor665. I'm pretty sure your face isn't going to get owned, so how about putting your vote where you think it's supposed to be? Don't care if you disagree with my read, but you tossing responsibility to "game momentum" ain't going to sit well.

(In other news, I'm going to be doing some mith and Sotty7 reading today... for real.)

[Equinox]

I think I'm already silly and strange for stubbornly sitting on my own little wagon. Still, look at the vote counts and DemonHybrid's reaction here. You said yourself that you think he's town, yet you're still willing to let him sit at L-1?

[Equinox]

Bleh. Looking at the vote counts, I can see why you're no longer on the Sotty7 wagon. (Call me a derp and I'll agree with you.)

Something I'm thinking about right now -- and more likely than not this is just infodump but I'm bored -- and...

DemonHybrid (5) - mith, Sotty7, Chris B, InflatablePie, Thor665

People who have been vocal about DemonHybrid-town: Amrun, Equinox, LlamaFluff, Thor665

We're pretty much 4-4 here, and I think the problem is that we have 4 people agreeing on a scum read... and 4 people who agree that DemonHybrid is more likely than not town yet can't agree on who's scum.

I have no idea where I'm even going with this.

Preview edit: You know what happened the last time I tried that, right?

[Equinox]

EBWOP: I think at least 3 people on the DemonHybrid wagon right now are town; the remainder are mith and Sotty7, and I'm still in the middle^(?) of reading the cases there, but the only other wagon I see moving is mith... and I kind of doubt I'd be willing to go there, but we'll see.

For now, how about we run with this?

I'll hammer DemonHybrid once he gets his team together and posts thoughts.

(Let the last-minute discussion frenzy commence!)

[Equinox]

Falling asleep, so digestion and/or hammer coming in the morning.

[Equinox]

Does anyone else see what I mean by finding this concerning?

Ooh, ooh, me, me, me!

That I doubt DemonHybrid is scum but will probably hammer him anyway?

If that's the right answer, what do you think of Thor665's comments about game momentum?

[Equinox]

Partially, it comes across not just that you think he's town, but that you KNOW he's town.

LOOK AT HIS REACTION TO GETTING L-1'ED

TELL ME THAT IS A SCUM REACTION

AND THEN LOOK AT POST 827

THE LEVEL OF DERP IN THIS GAME IS MAKING ME RAGE

But he was talking about L-1 and reactions more than he was talking about 'lynch and move on, people!'.

RTFT

Thor665 is lynching DemonHybrid. If he wanted reactions, he'd have unvoted by now.

[Equinox]

Sheeping me would be a bad idea.

Let me think about mith.

[Equinox]

*Spreads arms wide*

*looks at DemonHybrid*
*looks at Thor665*
*points to Thor665's vote*
*cackles*

[Equinox]

Hey, Thor665. (Amrun can join in, too.)

Thought exercise!

Do you think scum would be trying to lynch DemonHybrid or white-knight/defend him?

[Equinox]

On the one hand, two town reads Amrun and DemonHybrid are on it.

On the other hand, LlamaFluff's on it.

WHAT DO

[Equinox]

Okay, you lot are probably tired of seeing the red-haired spamming the game, but I have a pony here jumping up and down in excitement and I promised that I'd pass on the messages.

Basically:

I'm being yelled at that DemonHybrid and mith are town.
The pony wishes to yell at Amrun for this post but still thinks Amrun is probably town.

[Equinox]

If you don't believe it, isn't it a pointless info dump?

[Equinox]

HEY, DEMONHYBRID

mith (3) - Amrun, DemonHybrid, LlamaFluff

Sevei (3) - Llamarble, Thor665, DemonHybrid

I would rather lynch mith a million times over, though.

[Equinox]

Some thoughts I'm mulling over right now... I want to see Sevei's replacement. What this game needs is a set of fresh eyes to look upon it because a bunch of the old eyes are tired and don't care to do whatever rereading should be done in light of the new reactions and information of sorts that have come about from today. If Sevei's slot is scum, that will hopefully become apparent because of something I'm about to do. If Sevei's slot is town, we

need

that replacement.

Basically, what I'm asking is, don't hammer Sevei's slot without waiting for a replacement first. Once that happens, we can decide then how to best proceed.

Unvote, Vote: Sevei

L-2

[Equinox]

Yo, Sotty7. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 representing greatest difficulty and 10 representing greatest ease, how do you find DrippingGoofball in terms of trying to read her?

(Okay, I suppose I want much more than a number, but I didn't know how to phrase it and not make it a leading question.)

(This may or may not be a recycled question.)

[Equinox]

Apparently, I'm on a roll, so I'm looking at Sotty7 first.

Sotty7 (3) - LlamaFluff, Thor665, Chris B

Spoiler: Information Dump

Reference points:

• SocioPath drops the first vote for DrippingGoofball in post 154 (May 16, 9:31 PM)
• SocioPath makes the case for DrippingGoofball in post 188 (May 17, 11:41 AM)
• Sotty7 makes two attempts to read SocioPath's case, both within 12 hours (May 18, 6:30 AM)
• Sotty7 drops the fifth vote for DrippingGoofball in post 252 (May 18, 6:38 PM)

This is actually one of the biggest reasons Sotty is scum too. She basically ignores everything that went on between SP and DGB until it came to the point where DGB was obviously in serious trouble and jumped the wagon almost entirely for pressure and rode it out until the end of the day. Following that, Sotty immediately attempts to drum up a "lynch everyone off the wagon" hunt, when herself really had nothing to do with the wagon.

That reads as scum bussing, and then trying to keep attention off of them by diverting the attention to a group that they are not a part of. The best way to not get lynched is to remove yourself from the table while at the same time pulling town off the table in an attempt to get them to agree with you.

Not to mention all of the shennanigans that went on between the marble-sotty interactions and DGB looking at them getting very interested, then trying to defuse them from going after eachother. Reads as scum trying to make sure that their partner is not going to get stuck in a "one or the other" situation when one more scum lynch ends the game.

My case on Sotty relies primarily on DrippingGoofball.

She gave scum reads on Sociopath (328) and Thor (319).

She gave town reads on Llamarble once, (post 183), Equinox once, (305) and Sotty7 THREE TIMES(post 166) (post 178) (post 183).

Would scum really try to clear town for no good reason?

The argument was made earlier that one scummy thing done by Dripping Goofball was to make the 'alt' argument against me. I agree with this.

On that note: Sotty's post 20:

Vote: Chris B

Alt detected.

With regards to Sotty7 being the fifth voter on DGB. I've never liked the argument that scum are more likely to bus on a certain number vote than another one. So I'm not comfortable wth the reverse either, and the fifth vote being the obviously town position. There's still time in there to climb down on a vote.

She also makes the point in post 272 that:

I had forgotten about DGB's V/LA which sucks because now the power wagon lags as we wait for her to come back. Not cool.

Which strikes me as slowing down that vote.

Complete WIFOM in post 538 which can be summed up as 'Scum wouldn't vote DGB like I did'.

On top of that, she's ignored posts of mine twice now. This post here isn't the first time I've pointed out that the 'alt detected' vote. Also, I've already addressed the scum daytalk thing.

So yeah, it's enough for me to be unconvinced by the town argument.

@Sotty

1. Gut.
2. Reaction Fishing.
3. Vote shaking up.

I recommend at least glancing at the inside of the spoiler to get an idea of how I've organized my thoughts.

Between the time SocioPath posted his case against DrippingGoofball and Sotty7 posted her vote, she chided Llamarble for his choice of RQS questions and his self-vote, asked DrippingGoofball about SocioPath's "third scum claim" and for her opinion of Llamarble, admits that she's tempted to switch her vote to SocioPath, announces a pool (2 of {LlamaFluff, Sevei, mith, DemonHybrid, SocioPath, DrippingGoofball}), and catches up on the DemonHybrid-LlamaFluff-mith exchange. That's a quick summary of her posts up until her DrippingGoofball vote.

From her posts up to this point, I'm seeing a connection between DrippingGoofball, Llamarble, and Sotty7. Sotty7 attacks Llamarble for his early behavior, to which Llamarble responds with a case against Sotty7. Sotty7 asks DrippingGoofball for her opinion, and DrippingGoofball responds with a case on Llamarble that segues into a case on SocioPath; further, we have her emphasizing three times that she can't tell Llamarble apart from LlamaFluff. (See below.) DrippingGoofball later concludes that Llamarble and Sotty7 are both town.

LlamaFluff's argument logically follows his stance that both scum would bus DrippingGoofball in order to play to a long-term goal. His vote movements so far today -- switching between mith and Sotty7 -- also follows this line of logic. I may look into other opinions he's voiced, but for now I think I lean town on LlamaFluff. I don't know if I agree with him about Sotty7 looking off the wagon as a scum tell, though. Looking at her posts at the start of Day 2, she seems to have based that off her reads of the people on the DrippingGoofball wagon; that sounds like a reasonable thing to do.

Quick correction to Chris B's case: DrippingGoofball called me town in post 110 as well, so that makes twice. As for the case itself, I don't agree so much with "Alt detected" being a scum tell, given that it was RVS. (Oh, don't you guys love it when "It was RVS!" is used as an excuse?) It does show some lack of thought, though; creating an alt for the purposes of playing Team Mafia doesn't seem all that optimal, given that this is the sort of arrangement where it'd be a lot more fun to play on a main account. I can see the reasoning behind the rest of the points, but Sotty7's reactions to them feel like a town reaction. (At this point, I'm starting to wonder if this post I'm writing isn't just one huge giant waste of time and space. Bleh?)

Um... I think Thor665 was on Sotty7 for gut or something?

I have a thought that was going to go here, but I think it'd be best if I waited for Sotty7 to respond to my question about DrippingGoofball first. In other news, I appear to have turned an investigation of the cases against Sotty7 into reads of the people making them.

I'll go to the team and see what they think of {DrippingGoofball, Llamarble, Sotty7}. Also, I'm pretty much beat right now, and all I want to do is sleep. Maybe my dreams will tell me if I've been mistaken about Sotty7.

A similar examination of DemonHybrid and mith may or may not be coming soon. I dare not make any promises that I'm not entirely sure I can keep.

---

A quick parting thought that is a day late and a dollar short...

HYBRIDS

Llamarable >>> I keep mixing him up with the other Llama.
LLamaFluff >>> #22 self-meta why he's town ??? Votes Equitownx? Aggressive jump on Klazam is good, though. I agree with #76

What's your opinion on Marable DGB?

My brain is tiny and I can't tell him apart from the other llama. Iso coming up.

On

Llamamarble

(I hope I the right Llama)

Someone mentioned this previously in the thread, but this looks really forced. She's also done it only to Llamarble, which makes things interesting. I'm tempted to run a flash wagon on Llamarble, but then again I want the Sevei wagon to stay put until things happen. If only I had a double vote!

I'll sleep on it.

[Equinox]

A team pony continues to nag me about LlamaFluff and not even the Llama Song would appease him. Said pony actually wants me to re-vote LlamaFluff and get him lynched, but I'm tired and don't really want to make another gigantic excavation. Thus, I am going to compromise and ask LlamaFluff for a full list of reads. From a skim of your posts, I see you've posted reads here and there, but I'd like all of your reads collected together in one post, please.

[Equinox]

mith isn't scum, of that I am pretty sure of right now, anyone else paying attention should come to the same conclusion.

This was my gut town read on mith since Day 1; I had to protect my fellow pony, so I horsed around a bit. Now I'm glad the game's over because that means I have one less gargantuan thing to write up.

I WANT BLOOD

So do I, but I want Sevei's replacement's thoughts more.

Unvote

[Equinox]

All right, here's a thought my team and I want to entertain today because, with the way things are going, I'd rather address this today than tomorrow. It's regarding this:

A quick parting thought that is a day late and a dollar short...

HYBRIDS

Llamarable >>> I keep mixing him up with the other Llama.
LLamaFluff >>> #22 self-meta why he's town ??? Votes Equitownx? Aggressive jump on Klazam is good, though. I agree with #76

What's your opinion on Marable DGB?

My brain is tiny and I can't tell him apart from the other llama. Iso coming up.

On

Llamamarble

(I hope I the right Llama)

Someone mentioned this previously in the thread, but this looks really forced. She's also done it only to Llamarble, which makes things interesting. I'm tempted to run a flash wagon on Llamarble, but then again I want the Sevei wagon to stay put until things happen. If only I had a double vote!

I'd like to chain lynch LlamaFluff and Llamarble, as the team strongly believes there is scum within this pair or else DrippingGoofball wouldn't have gone to such lengths to emphasize Llamarble. My own personal theory was that she had the intention to post this "confusion" at least once, but she may have forgotten that she'd already said it by the third time. I realize I'm playing in WIFOM here, but it's something I am willing to bet on.

Personally, I want to start with LlamaFluff. DrippingGoofball doing this to Llamarble-buddy is too obvious of a link, even if she did it only once. Case in point: The quote above, where I pointed at Llamarble for this connection. Furthermore, I think I have a reasonable chance of success in at least wagoning up LlamaFluff today, given that I'm (alternatively, my team) the one who suspects him the most; my fear is that you'll have significantly more trouble doing that when I'm not pushing it, whereas you guys seem to be able to run up Llamarble on your own.

The fellow pony says that he really dislikes the fact that LlamaFluff has been focusing on people on the DrippingGoofball wagon given that he himself was off it. I haven't had the chance to look into this deeper, but it's something I'm definitely doing when I go home. However, I'm going to go with this:

Vote: LlamaFluff

I do not plan on moving off LlamaFluff today. Discuss.

[Equinox]

If we get any more support on Fluff, I'll switch. We're running out of time and I'd prefer to keep what banked time we have.

"More support" for the LlamaFluff wagon can start with you! Yes, YOU!

Seriously, though, while I like the idea of pressuring Sevei's replacement with a wagon ready made, I'm not happy with this being an actual lynch wagon. Compromise wagons can be quite easily manipulated by scum, and they have a lot of incentive to do so in this setup.

[Equinox]

I'm also not voting Sevei. Equi wants to see the replacement but will put the slot at L-2 in a town that is dying for a lynch. I don't understand that.

Hammer lust makes wagons much more rich and tasty. Granted, my unvote didn't give the Sevei wagon a chance to do things, but I'm pushing a much more awesome wagon right now anyway. That and Sevei wagon being at L-1 given how it built makes me shaky.

lol I just realized I read your question wrong Equi 2/3 out of ten for reading DGB, not 8/9

Hmm... That explains some of your behavior toward DrippingGoofball, at least. Why did you ask her about Llamarble on Day 1?

I ignored this question when you first asked it because it's pretty pointless now with her dead, but whatever. The fact you're asking it again suggests it's important somehow, I can't see it how.

The first time I asked it, it was addressed to DemonHybrid...

[Equinox]

*twitch*

[Equinox]

Wait a minute.

I bring up a chain lynch of LlamaFluff and Llamarble, and LlamaFluff doesn't pause to say, "Equinox, you've got it all wrong! She's WIFOMing you!" or maybe even, "It's Llamarble!" Instead, he tosses an L-1 vote on Sevei despite defending her for most of Day 2 and then posts some if-then reads... and suddenly I'm obvtown if Sevei flips town despite not being so before...? What?

WAGON LLAMAFLUFF
WAGON LLAMAFLUFF NOW

I'll wall you guys to death if I have to.

[Equinox]

BUT I WANT BLOOD, DAMN YOU

WE'LL HAVE BLOOD

LLAMAFLUFF'S BLOOD

I HEAR THAT IT TASTES REALLY GOOD

[Equinox]

There are 24 people on the replacements list. Why hasn't Sevei's replacement arrived yet? Her team had better be running down that list like BAM BAM BAM or they're seriously playing to lose.

We've got 4 days, so I am not moving anywhere. If it comes close to deadline and people are still insistent on lynching Sevei despite ALL THAT DEFENDING EARLIER TODAY COUGH COUGH I'll switch and then try to figure out a way to vig everyone in this game.

I'll address LlamaFluff's posts + other stuff later; right now I have more urgent matters. :/

[Equinox]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask... Why singersigner?

[Equinox]

Seveis team chose her to replace in.

Heh. I appreciate the response. Thanks.

Though I'd like to hear from singersigner as well because that was an interesting pick out of at least one other choice that could have been made, not least because of a recently completed game.

mith (1) - Amrun

mith isn't scum, of that I am pretty sure of right now, anyone else paying attention should come to the same conclusion.

Amrun, let's discuss why you think Sotty7's observation here is invalid. Also, I know you think LlamaFluff is town; if you vote him today, I promise you the reactions to the wagon would be totally worth it. Deadline wagons have magical properties.

Or maybe I'm really just hammering home my favorite lynch with mere days to the deadline, buuuut I have ice cream? :<

[Equinox]

1. Excuse me, we were waiting on the mod's approval and double-checking rules, etc.
2. It sounds like you're saying you're fine with anyone and everyone on that list being a replacement for your team...I doubt anyone else could say the same.
3. If you think we're playing too lose, you should look at who you're trying to get lynched and for what reason, and then either rethink that statement or laugh at your reflection. I don't have time to deal with "oh this is easy, let's hop on that!" when there's an obvious lynch sitting in front of you.

Sevei's slot had been quiet for 6 whole days and I was pretty annoyed that the replacement didn't appear to come anytime soon. You're here, so this is pretty moot now, I suppose. There are quite a few very good names on that replacement list, though.

Also, unless you

know

LlamaFluff to be town, you can't think I'm playing to lose, sooooo what's this you're on about?

4. It sounds like you think the choice is interesting because I was scum in another game, hmm? Actually, what does that tell you instead?
(out of curiosity, what "other choice" are you talking about?)

Not because you were scum in Mafia MetaMafia but because you're much better at talking yourself out of lynches than [REDACTED], and [THE OTHER REDACTED] was probably never going to replace in anyway. My thinking was that if you guys had asked [REDACTED] to replace in, I'd have started shoving everyone off the wagon by force because there's no way [REDACTED] would have accepted a scum slot. Instead, it's you, so I'm a little curious about that.

[Equinox]

If I get lynched Sotty should be lynched within the first four posts tomorrow.

Okay. Deal.

I don't understand why Sotty thinks mith is confirmed town. I don't understand the point she is tryng to make, so I. Can't even disagree with it.

If mith is scum, that means his team received three scum role PMs. While the chances of that happening aren't quite as minuscule as his team receiving four, I think the chances are small enough that I'd bet on him not being scum.

Question, though, Amrun: Does a mith-Sotty7 team make sense to you? (If you've answered this already in the last 38 pages... please humor me again?)

[Equinox]

Not sure what the case on me is either, I would like that to be actually brought up.

Admittedly, most of it is gut and my team screaming for your blood. I was supposed to dig back in your posts and see if there was anything between your old and current stances, but I haven't had the time as I have more urgent catch-up business at the moment. Deadline isn't for a few more days, so I've queued that for tomorrow.

I could be fine with a Fluff lynch if that means we get a Sotty lynch next. Chain the lynches, chain them I say!

Who else is scum, Thor665?

[Equinox]

Chris B's team, please prod Chris B.

A wild DemonHybrid was also spotted in grass patches in the area.

[Equinox]

Hi.

I'm not going to explain this because doing so would kill something else I'm also observing for, but this is very much a real vote to lynch.

Unvote, Vote: DemonHybrid

[Equinox]

Okay, so...

I'm not comfortable with a LlamaFluff or Sotty7 lynch anymore, and that started when I moved onto DemonHybrid. The reason I didn't say so outright was because I wanted to see Chris B, DemonHybrid, or Llamarble react first, and two of those three have reacted already and

Llamarble probably needs a prod from his team

because I'm impatient. My thinking here was what mith said earlier in the day; if someone sounds defeatist, it's probably a town tell. Scum know this, so I wouldn't have accepted it as a town tell right away. What I was looking for was more blood lust to see how 1) the wagonees themselves would react, and 2) the players surrounding them would react.

I'm missing a data point from Llamarble, but I say screw that because I'm a LOT more interested in seeing blood, least of all because I have a few suspicions of how tonight is going to run down if we mislynch today, and I want to jump to that as soon as possible. If I'm not here tomorrow, then assume that I had nothing further to say. (If I do get NKed, I'd be careful about automatically assuming it's due to my reads; I have a pretty strong team with me, and they're all free right now.)

Something else I wanted to observe was to rule out pairs based on the LlamaFluff and Sotty7 wagons. I have the list for LlamaFluff that I drew up while I was on campus, but I don't have Sotty7's; after this post, I'll go look at the wagon movements and post the lists afterward. Unfortunately, the data isn't as comprehensive as I'd have liked, and that is due to my error of moving to DemonHybrid prematurely. Still useful later in the game, I hope.

@Equi...I can honestly say I have no idea what you're talking about...

I'll just say it. I have two other names that I am reasonably sure are on your team. With apologies, I am going to go reveal one because I think it's fairly obvious and it'll help me get my point across: If you had chosen quadz08, that would have essentially guaranteed that your slot was town because he doesn't do so well at talking himself out of a lynch when he's scum. You, on the other hand, showed me in Mafia MetaMafia that you can sound like town genuinely thinking through things when you're actually scum, and I said as much while that game was running. It was just an observation; my verdict on you would have to depend on other factors.

Fucking lynch sotty. That was so opportunistic and right after her "lynch me first; it will help town" resignation.

Don't know about opportunistic, as I don't know off the top of my head if Sotty7 has ever been on DemonHybrid's case or not, but what you're describing here isn't a scum tell. In fact, if she simply rolled over and let herself die without a fight, that'd be playing against her win con, town or scum.

And self-hammering as town modkills me. What's your point?

Why do you say that?

Im not sure what to make of this game right now, as something is just not adding up, at all. I mean... now we have had two people who obviously have no idea what is going on, one either running a "no pm" or probably is town for it gambit while the other still occasionally seems to miss the setup.

Do you think it has something to do with you mentioning it earlier in the day?

Nothing can be ruled out with math in this one. As I already showed chances are good there is a +50% scum team out there, heck its around a 12% chance there is an all scum team.

Hmm... I'll go take a look at the list of teams and work out possibilities based on [REDACTED] and see what I come up with. mith has appeared town to me for the most of the game, but I guess I'll have to take a look with the amount of people yelling mith-scum from rooftops all over. (Whether or not I actually do... well... )

PS: I'm finally at the point where I'm willing to lynch whomever. Right now, out of the current wagons, I'd be most willing to lynch singersigner. I'd rather not entertain lynching DemonHybrid, LlamaFluff, or Sotty7 at this point, but if any of those wagons swell to L-1 and there is no chance of singersigner eating rope, I'm hammering.

[Equinox]

EBWOP:

Unvote

[Equinox]

FOR EQUESTRIA

Vote: singersigner

L-1

[Equinox]

People not partnered with DemonHybrid: Chris B, mith, singersigner, Sotty7
People not partnered with LlamaFluff: InflatablePie, Sotty7, Thor665
People not partnered with Sotty7: Amrun, LlamaFluff, Thor665

These were taken from the more recent incarnations of these wagons, as I feel there was enough bloodlust to get a read off the wagons. I'm missing data on Llamarble, whose Wanted posters should be posted sometime soon. Chris B admitted to lurking this out, but his vote on DemonHybrid remained when there was talk of hammering him, so I feel good about putting him in that category.

I suspect this won't be very useful until later in the game if we even get to that stage.

If this game is still going tomorrow, keep this level of bloodlust. It's the best way to read these wagons. Getting to LyLo quickly as InflatablePie suggests could be a good idea as long as you guys don't pull this stunt where the game was lost because people were lynching too fast.

All right. An interesting thing I've noticed: mith wagon had 3 people on it -- Amrun, DemonHybrid, LlamaFluff -- yet somehow never gained traction as votes moved in favor of DemonHybrid (Chris B, Equinox, mith, Sotty7), LlamaFluff (Equinox, InflatablePie, Sotty7), and Sevei (DemonHybrid, Equinox, InflatablePie, LlamaFluff, Llamarble, Thor665). This would yield a lot more meaning if there was a handy list of people who were pro-mith and anti-mith along with their reasoning why, but I'm not feeling up to that right now.

...and that's your info dump for the evening.

[Equinox]

One of my teammates promised an in-depth look at the game after Night 2, so you'll be hearing from that end shortly. In the meantime, I'll go pick apart the wagons and cases from yesterday, and I'll take a look at what InflatablePie had to say compared to the rest of the players, as I think there may be something there.

Not-pairs I announced yesterday still apply. Reads depend on what I get after analyzing.

[Equinox]

I'll run with that.

Vote: LlamaFluff

Preview edit: Yes, I was on both wagons. I tried to lynch LlamaFluff yesterday, too, but I jumped off him when he busted out the "Lynch Sotty7 after you lynch me, you hear?" and there was something else or other.

[Equinox]

Well, I wanted to kill LlamaFluff.

A lot of back and forth, but also a lot of pressure. My head hurts.

Doesn't mean anything if said pressure dies under threat of lynch. I don't quite remember how close LlamaFluff was, but I jumped off him and joined a different wagon, which played a big role in killing the momentum, I think. But why am I even arguing this, lol.

Everyone: How likely is it that there is one scum on Singer's wagon, one off?

Pretty good, I'd say. Level of bloodlust when singersigner got lynched was certainly high enough to blend in. I'm going to go take a look at the wagon activity and see what's up there... It was somewhat of a compromise wagon mid-Day 2 and somehow swelled to primary lynching wagon by the end, so something's up there. Vote counts seem to indicate that the wagon was running counter to the one on you, DemonHybrid; what do you think was going on there?

[Equinox]

Okay, you know what. I was going to do mega-analysis today, but I'm pretty tired and don't care for anything but bed.

I'm taking my vote off for right now because I looked at LlamaFluff's iso and... I'm seeing town? Blarhdgndfh. I'll vote later when I have something more concrete.

Unvote

[Equinox]

I suggest mostlyignoring ipie's reads

[Equinox]

Well, the thing is, I moved off LlamaFluff after pressuring him and declared him a weak town read of sorts whereas InflatablePie had LlamaFluff in both green ("possible likely") pairs with everyone else he listed categorized in an "unlikely" or "possible unlikely" pair. InflatablePie never mentioned anything about moving off LlamaFluff and only lynched singersigner for blood. If we're talking threat kills, I made myself less of a threat by moving off LlamaFluff and announcing the reasoning behind it.

Given InflatablePie's final reads, I can see why you'd want to ignore him, I guess, but I'll have to admit that it's suspicious. I guess I should go back and see why you have such a strong read of LlamaFluff anyway.

[Equinox]

Hey, Amrun, let's play with another angle. What do you think of my reads?

[Equinox]

Darn it unintentionally clicked submit in the middle of writing.

...implying that the post above this one was unfinished. Sooooo what were you in the middle of saying when you got rudely interrupted by the Submit button?

Llamarble case interests me greatly. I'm going to laze about a bit first, though.

[Equinox]

Gah. Apologies, everybody. I've been sidelining this game, and I meant to catch up late yesterday and earlier today, but I got distracted by shiny objects. I'm definitely getting on this now, but given the size of your cases, I probably won't be able to have anything substantial of my own until I've cross-referenced your cases and compared them to things.

A fellow pony ran through the events of Day 1 and listed his reads of people's reactions to the DrippingGoofball wagon, so you'll definitely hear from that front tonight as soon as I figure out how to not break the "Don't paste from QuickTopics" rule.

[Equinox]

Why the heck am I being allowed to coast? I haven't posted anything substantial in days and none of you are scratching your heads at this.

I'm actually having a lot of trouble with my reads right now, since I'm reading all of you as town to varying degrees and that's just wrong. The last few pages have not helped my confusion any. I have a few reading tasks lined up for this game, so I'll get to working on those full-speed ahead over the weekend. I'll be away from Internet access more often than not over Saturday and Sunday, though, so I won't have a giant wall of doom and reads until late Sunday or Monday at the earliest; I may throw softballs in the meantime to help me get grips and whatnot, but I think everything I need to find the scum is in these last 47 pages. I'm just blind to it.

Since Equinox has no idea what she's doing, I'll go ahead and talk briefly about what one of the team members said when he went through the first 20 pages of the thread. He has town reads on Chris B, mith, and DemonHybrid, and he leans town on Sotty7 and Thor665. By process of elimination, he has LlamaFluff, Llamarble, and Amrun listed as his preferred lynch targets and in that order. I can elaborate further on these by request; I have all of the stuff here, but I'd rather not clog up the thread with it all until I've had a chance to look in the thread and see if there were rebuttals made in Day 2 that my teammate missed by virtue of not having read that day yet.

Actually, going through all that, something interests me...

Llamarble, what is your current read of Thor665? I'm not talking about partner possibilities here; what do you think of him on his own merits?

[Equinox]

Amrun, I'm curious... Did Klazam say anything about DrippingGoofball and SocioPath in your team's thread?

[Equinox]

Equinox, are you SERIOUSLY not even voting?

EVERYONE IS TOWN

HALP

Seriously, though, I haven't had the chance to sit down and read this thread. I've had two ponies now shout at me to lynch a Llama because of DrippingGoofball's thing (and some other thing from the one of the ponies) and I'm sorely tempted because Llamarble's stalling/lurking/close enough to lynch/etc., BUT I'd rather not vote until I know what's going on. And I don't.

[Equinox]

That's L-1.

*sits and waits*

[Equinox]

That, too, I suppose.

[Equinox]

Content will be coming, but I'm going to have a little bit of fun here while I work on that. Llamarble has until the time my patience meter runs out to post a response to my question and whatever awesome things he promised. Once the meter hits 0, I may drop the hammer.

Go, game, go!

[Equinox]

The amount of waiting he keeps asking people to do whenever he's under pressure comes across as hoping things will blow over.

Fear not! The patience meter does not slow down for such things. It must either be stopped completely by a great force that only the righteous may yield or it must be completely depleted.

Participation in the DGB lynch and DGB wagoning him late in the day and his assertive play all bode town.
Looking him over now though, I don't see much puzzle-solving or caring deeply who gets lynched. And he defends Amrun.

How serious do you believe the Thor665 wagon was at the end of the day? Do you believe Thor665-scum would defend Amrun-scum when Amrun-scum already has other people -- who would presumably be town in this hypothetical -- strongly defending her? What do you think of the strength of the meta tell you had early on Day 1?

[Equinox]

Hm. I'm going to see who's white knighting him. If NOBODY is, I'd suggest a lynch on someone else, because I'd expect a partner to want to try to save the game.

Shush, man, that was the whole point of me saying how impatient I was to see Llamarble say something good. Though I like what's come out of your question of Sotty7 soooo let's see how this goes!

Thor is town. There are just too many 'this is a masterpiece if he's scum' posts.
Embarassingly, I have actually been giving this game MORE attention than my others recently.
I am a lot more caught up now than I was.
Amrun is scum.

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock.

[Equinox]

Mod: When is the deadline?

Preview edit: Sigh...

[Equinox]

GAH, LLAMAFLUFF AND SOTTY7. ONE OF YOU IS SCREWING UP MY READ, AND FOR THAT I GIVE YOU RAGE. AND IF THE OTHER ONE IS ALSO TOWN, THEN I GIVE UP ON THIS GAME FOREVER.

No, I'm not going to read the thread yet. I wanna see how long Llamarble has to stall.

Preview edit: Shh. I'm doing something here, and it appears to be working. I just need to figure out which one is fresh tuna and which one is dolphin in bad place at wrong time.

[Equinox]

Because of the lack of hammer?

No. It didn't have to be a hammer. I wouldn't even have minded if either of you two had said nothing about the Llamarble wagon to let DemonHybrid and I read the pressure gauge properly. I was hoping whoever was town would play along so that Llamarble and his potential buddy if he had any could come in and help us get a read, but both of you came in and defended Llamarble from this wagon.

GRAH.

I'M ALSO WAITING FOR LLAMARBLE WHO SEEMS TO MAKE A HABIT OF STALLING.

I'm going to go calm down for a bit, hang on.

[Equinox]

Okay.

I'm done.

Let's go.

Vote: Sotty7

[Equinox]

Your blood sings to me.

I may or may not be doing something here, but that's for the rest of the game to decide, yes?

[Equinox]

I intend to find out.

[Equinox]

Unvote, Vote: LlamaFluff

Order doesn't matter.

Go, go, go!

[Equinox]

Pre-established wagon with DemonHybrid's stamp of approval. Also, team. Also, also, order doesn't matter.

[Equinox]

Unvote, Vote: Sotty7

I'm going to let the thread breathe now. You're all probably sick of Applejack, anyway.

[Equinox]

@Equi - What are the team considerations for Fluff and Sotty that don't apply to Marble? Are you talking internal to this game matchups, or meta of the Team mafia event?

Oh, no, that's not what I meant by "team." What I meant was that two of my team members have been egging me to lynch a Llama, and both have cited LlamaFluff as their top suspect from what they've read of the game.

[Equinox]

Dammit, DemonHybrid!

Bleh, let me get a post together and then try to speeeeed through Day 1 with the passion of a lot of fires.

[Equinox]

In case the game isn't over:

The team continues to insist on the lynching of a Llama. You guys are no doubt asking me, "Well, why didn't you stick to your guns with your LlamaFluff vote?" I thought that, if we did something with Sotty7 similar to what we did earlier with Llamarble, it would do one of two things:

1. Reveal people defending Sotty7. In particular, I was hoping for Llamarble himself to come in and react to the threat of Sotty7 getting lynched, which would thereby confirm if what Sotty7 did for Llamarble was connected. That bombed in my face spectacularly.
2. Reveal Sotty7 as town if nobody tried to stop the wagon. If there's one thing I don't the scum can prevent, it's the defending of people with the imminent threat of a hammer. Sotty7 has been the topic of conversation for a long time, and this was a way to settle that debate for good.

One of the ponies is now cursing out DemonHybrid, but I'll spare you lot that and post what the other pony had to say about LlamaFluff, Llamarble, and mith. I was holding onto these earlier because I was going to read the game myself to see if these had already been addressed, but there's no time for that now. Therefore, screw it, you guys will just have to deal with these in real time if I'm not here tomorrow to do so.

Part 2 coming up!

Preview edit:

Ready for another wrench in the gears? I think its mith-Equinox.

Figures someone would come out and say that now.

[Equinox]

Part 2, etc.

This whole wall pertains only to Day 1. If you have a beef with that, say it now. I'm not posting this verbatim, so you get to deal with my flowery language. Remember this vote count? We're taking a road trip starting from this point A.

The first exhibit is mith's post 257 where he reevaluates his thoughts of DemonHybrid and DrippingGoofball. Null.

The second exhibit is LlamaFluff's post 258 where he's unsure of how to read DrippingGoofball and SocioPath and declares that his team thinks DrippingGoofball is scum. He also defends DemonHybrid. All the other pony said of this exhibit was that it was "bad"; he didn't elaborate, and I won't either.

The third exhibit is Klazam's 261, where he talks about... stuff. Just go click it and I don't have to snark it up. This was the basis of my question to Amrun earlier today about Klazam's thoughts of SocioPath and DrippingGoofball, though I was much more interested in his thoughts of SocioPath. I don't remember Amrun's answer, all I know is that I didn't see anything major so I left it. I may go back to that after I finish writing this eye-bleed up. Essentially, Klazam has chosen to ignore SocioPath at this point, which is a bad stance to take given what SocioPath was doing.

The fourth exhibit is Llamarble's 269 where Llamarble 180s his meta read of Thor665. I don't think Llamarble ever got back to me about this... eh, fuck it.

The fifth exhibit is mith's 278 which is long so I won't bother interpreting or summarizing it, I'll just say that the pony thought it was :goodposting: and thus it has been declared so.

Lastly, the pony hated LlamaFluff's 341 where LlamaFluff asks mith about the DrippingGoofball case, calls DrippingGoofball scummier than SocioPath, and... votes Sevei.

That's what I had up my sleeve.

[Equinox]

Oh, hey, LlamaFluff, Faraday's calling you a cheeky scumbag.

[Equinox]

I see a lot of dissonance with this LlamaFluff and Sotty stuff.

Yeah because I was going to run them up one after the other but noooooo.

Hang on, juicy stuff I get to post.

[Equinox]

Never mind, it was just Faraday going, "ISO LLAMARBLE. HE IS SCUM." Uh, yeah, okay.

In other news, I AM A MOVER AND A SHAKER AND I AM NOT GOING TO MOVE BUT I AM GOING TO SHAKE.

Maybe I'm slightly insane. I'll shut up now and put forth my own original ideas, hopefully before the thread locks. And if the game's over then welp another game won by pure accident on my part.

[Equinox]

Was I really just hammered?

Yes.

So, anything to add?

Everyone's run away from the Coney Island list of readers, too, so blurgh at all of you.

[Equinox]

I have conditionals. I'm not going to relay them, though.

YOU'RE GOING TO BE HERE TOMORROW TO RELAY THEM, IS THAT IT?

[Equinox]

I'm going to go ahead and be a jerk now.

DemonHybrid, is Nicodemus on your team?

Equinox, before the flip, thoughts on Amrun?

Zip zilch nada. If you held a gun to my head, I'd still say the same thing.

[Equinox]

Don't let Equi coast again.

Seriously, guys, I got away with, what, at least a week of sitting in this game and not doing any of the things I promised.

[Equinox]

How about this since we still have a shot to go before LyLo.

I'm not moving off Llamarble until there is a Good Reason (i.e., better than what happened today, sheesh) to do so. Heck, maybe Amrun, depends on what I see when I read whenever that ever happens.

Heck, there is no "until."

I WILL NOT MOVE
I WILL ONLY SHAKE

All I'm doing is spamming and not reading.

DemonHybrid, one last question. How coordinated has your team been so far? Were you guys communicating at the start of the games?

[Equinox]

Okay. I think I'm still cool with DemonHybrid being town. Can't explain the questions right now (obv), but there was a purpose and said purpose has been met.

[Equinox]

Okay, cool.

Can we run up LlamaFluff again? I got a huge adrenaline rush when I did it last time and it felt so awesome so I have no idea why I even jumped off him.

If not LlamaFluff then Llamarble again? Squeezing him's kind of fun.

[Equinox]

No, wait, I just remembered that LlamaFluff was all, "HOW ABOUT WE LYNCH ME CAN WE LYNCH MITH AFTER?"

Gonna consult with the team on that one buuuut that's giving me pause.

Down with Llamarble though.

[Equinox]

People not scum with Llamarble: Amrun, Chris B, mith, Thor665, DemonHybrid^(?), Equinox^(?)

Hmm...

Okay, then. How about I call you on your bluff? I think Chris B, Thor665, and DemonHybrid are town; ponies disagree with Amrun and I don't have a good enough read of Amrun yet so let's defer judgment on that until I do, so that leaves... you and mith.

How about it?

[Equinox]

EBWOP: For the record, both ponies think mith is town, but let's just go with this because I am absolutely willing to reconsider everything you've said if you flip town.

[Equinox]

Yes. Yes, we do.

I was going to use it to get LOL REACTIONS again, but I just realized that not only does history have a tendency to repeat itself but I've also thought of how scum could combat that particular strategy to get reads, so... bleh.

[Equinox]

Random re-post plus enhancements.

I've taken out the names of players no longer with us; I'm providing links so that you may access the original versions.

People not partnered with DemonHybrid: Chris B, mith
People not partnered with LlamaFluff:

mith

, Thor665

People not scum with Llamarble: Amrun, Chris B, mith,

DemonHybrid^(?)

,

Equinox^(?)

, Thor665

I still stand by this, but I'm going to add an addendum to my note about Llamarble's rule-outs.

Neither DemonHybrid nor Equinox actually hammered; they merely expressed the intent to do so. Now, I know I'm town and that my pressure is genuine, but the rest of you aren't going to see it that way; after all, as the facts are, I not only did not hammer, I also helped lynch Sotty7 but allowing her to be put in that position. I initially put DemonHybrid on there because he seemed to be using the Llamarble wagon to hunt reactions as I was. I'm greying his name out because he didn't express any amount of pressure toward Llamarble that I can discern from a quick look at his rather large iso, but he can correct me as he sees fit and if it's still necessary.

DemonHybrid is, given his reaction to his wagon earlier in the game, most likely town. If he's scum, then hats off to him. Thus, I'm ruling him out based on my personal read of him.

An addition that I've marked in green is mith as a rule-out to LlamaFluff. That's some heavy cross-bussing if it's LlamaFluff-mith; furthermore, LlamaFluff has proposed to go before mith if need be to secure mith's lynch, which means I can definitely rule out this possible pairing.

I may look at possible pairings as opposed to non-pairings a little later, but this is coming out first as I'm much more confident about this given that's it's based more on data and less on personal reads.

LlamaFluff asks who's the most likely partner to Llamarble. My answer, based on this information and LlamaFluff's behavior toward the Llamarble wagon, would actually be LlamaFluff himself. I've mentioned that LlamaFluff's martyr-like behavior on two instances during this game day that makes me hesitant, and that still applies. I'll take a look at the context later, particularly the presence of pressure on LlamaFluff when he made those comments; from memory, LlamaFluff didn't say the comments when he was at L-1 and that would be because he didn't have the chance to, so being a martyr in that context isn't the level of "immediate write-off."

I can probably make one of these for Amrun depending on how heavy the wagon-pushing was. I'll do that in a separate post.

[Equinox]

Nobody's going to ever read these, are they...?

Welp. Don't care.

I can probably make one of these for Amrun depending on how heavy the wagon-pushing was.

This is not happening because there is not enough hard data. Based on voting patterns, the only person who wouldn't work with Amrun is Llamarble, but we knew that already.

The biggest LlamaFluff's wagon ever got was 3 votes, which occurred in post 925 with Sotty7's vote. If we include Amrun's and Thor665's comments about being happy to chain the LlamaFluff and Sotty7 lynches back-to-back, LlamaFluff is theoretically at L-1. LlamaFluff comments in post 932 that people should go ahead and lynch him if it meant they'd immediately quick lynch Sotty7 the next day.

I'll go consult with the team because discounting Faraday's and hitogoroshi's reads isn't something I'm willing to do off the bat, but -- personally -- I'm moving LlamaFluff down, once again, a few notches. The only wrench I see here is Amrun, who, if my memory serves me correctly, had a strong town read of LlamaFluff at this point and only agreed to lynch LlamaFluff because it would've meant the death of Sotty7; however, the flip side to this would be town turning the tables after a Sotty7 lynch on LlamaFluff, thereby acting out LlamaFluff's proposal in reverse. I doubt this would be a move scum would play, particularly with a town with a penchant for jumping around like manic bunnies.

WOOSH.

[Equinox]

Quick note here that I'll have limited access until July 3 but will most likely blow off Mafia on July 4; play resumes July 5.

@Equinox - Why did you wait so long to vote DGB?

I didn't see the possibility of her being scum until she called me obvtown (which directly contrasted her expressed opinion of obvtowns in general in a recently completed game); I asked her about it but then she ignored it, so I dropped the vote to pressure more than to lynch. And then the wagon just went zooom so I let it go.

Okay, I might as well talk about this now because the game's finally over and I need to hear from DemonHybrid straight up about it instead of pussy-footing around yesterday.

Okay, I think everyone should start by saying why they picked town for this game. For me, it was because I'm absolutely terrible as scum (as VP and Fugi, among others, could tell you) and I prefer playing town, so.

This was the secret meta tell I was holding against InflatablePie on Day 1 because derp I got the team wrong. I asked DemonHybrid yesterday about the composition of his team and about the team's level of communication at the start of the Team Mafia games because I wanted to see if the team caught this and thus affecting DemonHybrid's play. I actually had a specific line of thought for this that I'm too exhausted to recall right at the moment but that's where I was going with the grills before thread lock.

Soooo yeah, I'm interested in hearing what DemonHybrid's opinion is of Nicodemus's quote.

[Equinox]

EBWOP: Also, it would help if you guys shut up and let DemonHybrid answer that on his own, kthx.

[Equinox]

Um. That is against the rules.

Game's over. AFAIK, I can discuss it. And if I got modkilled, then... uh, that wouldn't be TOO bad, I guess? Team wouldn't appreciate it, though.

DemonHybrid, I asked because that looks like a slip. Why would Nicodemus say, specifically, why he didn't take scum? This is part of the reason why I asked you yesterday if you guys had been communicating to see if you'd try to cover for this, but you didn't even touch on it. You're right that there's no motivation to out someone via Team Mafia meta, but if someone screws up, someone screws up.

That said, let me process your response there and read stuff and get back later on that.

[Equinox]

Faraday wants y'all to know that DemonHybrid's response was a scum response and he's entertaining a DemonHybrid-LlamaFluff pairing.

[Equinox]

Okay, actually, we've been discussing about Thor665 getting bullseyed, which implicates Llamarble, so take out LlamaFluff. DemonHybrid-Llamarble's on the table.

DemonHybrid, Faraday wants to know who in your team would've taken a White Flag scum role PM.

[Equinox]

To Faraday: Parama would take it.

Okay. You live. Faraday says Parama would have been instantly lynched had he taken White Flag, but he thinks your hesitation in answering was genuine, so you're off the hook.

I think Fluff is town. If he's scum, he had no reason to try and derail a Sotty lynch in favour of a mith lynch.

Come to think of it, LlamaFluff was willing to lynch Sotty7 at one point during the game and could have easily jumped back to that reasoning. LlamaFluff lives, too.

I don't understand the Sottylynch at all.

Scum on Sotty7 wagon, Y/N?

I was trying to sell my soul to get mith lynched on day 2

Refresh my memory: How close was mith to getting lynched?

[Equinox]

Amrun, Equinox, Fluff: Why are you not voting?

Given yesterday's disaster of a wagon, I'd rather my vote be on someone I'm sold on being scum. I don't have that yet; in fact, literally everyone is a town read of varying degrees, and that means there's a major screw-up somewhere in the last 55 pages that I am going to find. Give me... 5 days? Start running me up if I stall for longer than that; I've been promising this crap for several days in Day 3.

[Equinox]

Sorry, guys. Things have been insane over here, but the self-imposed 5-day deadline to get things done still applies to me.

P sure it is game over if we mislynch today. So uh. But I will not be voting for DH ever. Not so sure about Marble.

Nope. If we mislynch today, tomorrow is LyLo.

[Equinox]

I really dont think its mith-Equinox, while it wouldnt be a complete shocker, I dont think thats happening.

I have not laid a finger on mith since the start of the game nor have I presented a case why beyond some minor points or gut. Similarly, mith hasn't leveled any suspicions against me that I can recall, so why does this pair seem unlikely to you?

Equinox: For most of day 2, mith sat around 3 votes. I tried hard to make it higher than that, even trying to trade votes with you, if you'll recall.

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch. Three isn't an impressive number. Though if you were pushing this hard, then I guess ruling out Amrun-mith as a pair would be reasonable. I'll run back and check at some point.

Equi, your self-deadline is running down. Can we get a preferred lynch from you?

So it is. I think the deadline is supposed to be today if we take my V/LA into account. Let me get back to you on the second question.

List of needs to agree: Equinox

Okay.

---

I see that LlamaFluff is at L-1. I'll let that sit for a bit while I soak up some wine. Though my thinking right now is that LlamaFluff would only work with DemonHybrid at this point given Llamarble's behavior and how much I've switched back and forth on LlamaFluff.

And if I don't come back tonight, you can stab me with my party hat.

[Equinox]

Equinox: What about Llamarble's behaviour makes him an unlikely Fluff-buddy?

(For that matter, why did you feel the need to argue that you aren't Fluff's scumbuddy? If you're town, you should know you're not Fluff's buddy - why would you switching on Fluff affect your thinking?)

The latter statement isn't the argument I was making. Llamarble stated a willingness to lynch LlamaFluff over Amrun if the Amrun lynch wasn't going to happen. If Llamarble was LlamaFluff's buddy, he'd be more nervous given that I've been somewhat unpredictable towards LlamaFluff, and I'm holding the hammer.

[Equinox]

Equinox, if you were fluff's partner, why would he be MORE nervous? that makes no sense.

Was I that incoherent?

No, I'm talking about LlamaFluff-Llamarble to decide whether or not I should lynch LlamaFluff.

[Equinox]

Amrun, Faraday wants to let you know that your posts sound rather fake and wonders what's up.

[Equinox]

Everyone forgot that my dad had a heart attack and I have to take responsibility for the family business. That's what's up. I posted it in all my games for a reason and right now I'm just riding it out until my games decrease. That is all I can do.

Fair enough for your Day 4 posting, I suppose, since that would affect your tone. His concern is with your reaction to DemonHybrid's hammering of Sotty7.

---

Presently contemplating LlamaFluff and Amrun chain lynching. Paranoid about the possibility of Chris B-mith being a pair, so I'm going to go investigate that since voting patterns haven't ruled it out.

[Equinox]

It wasn't fake. He'll just say "but I think it was" until the cows come home.

Heh.

What is the logic behind this proposed chain lynch?

I'm ruling out DemonHybrid and Llamarble because I will be damned if they're scum. That leaves you, Chris B, LlamaFluff, and mith. Admittedly, I'd be lynching LlamaFluff mostly on the word of my team. While I think LlamaFluff's posturing for people's lynches after his own looks town, I'm a little paranoid that he's doing it because it's gotten success in the past; namely, I've pushed LlamaFluff wagons only to stop them when he drops a post or other that makes me do a double-take. Still, I'd rather take a look at his play myself first before I commit to anything, and I haven't gotten the chance to do that yet.

Say we take LlamaFluff out of the picture. Chris B is probably town, and his day talk slip points in that direction. Can it be faked? Yeah, probably, but I doubt that reaction from him was faked; it looked quite natural when it happened. That pretty much leaves you.

Though, like I said, I'm still paranoid about the possibility of {Chris B, mith} which this chain lynching would completely overlook.

Oh, look, I'm running myself in circles.

[Equinox]

Okay. I have

finally

done the reading. At the risk of rehashing everything I have already been spewing in this thread, here's where I stand:

• I read DemonHybrid's posting on Day 2 while he was at L-1 and when he mistakenly thought he'd been hammered, and I agree that there's no way that's coming from scum. If it is, I shall carry him over to the Scummies 2011 Nomination thread myself.
• Chris B's day talk slip in post 462 is at the same level as DemonHybrid's posting stream. I read it over again, and I don't see it as forced; if he's scum, he's a damn good actor.
• Post 219 from Llamarble still gave me the twitches, but then I realized that I need not worry about Llamarble. The only two people who could be partnered with Llamarble, given hard data, are DemonHybrid and LlamaFluff; DemonHybrid is most likely town, and I'm about to lynch LlamaFluff. There's no reason for me to put Llamarble in lynching range.
• The general vibe I got from mith is town, but to be completely honest I have nothing to back that up. I'm borrowing hitogoroshi's read here, as well, and whatever he's said on this front, I've already mentioned it in the thread. I probably should take a closer look at mith's posting, though, so I'll go take care of that from now until morning.

After going through that list, I'm left with {Amrun, LlamaFluff, mith}. I will find scum in here because I am not going to find scum in {Chris B, DemonHybrid} and Llamarble can simply surrender if he's scum.

I can answer this now:

Equi, your self-deadline is running down. Can we get a preferred lynch from you?

In order: LlamaFluff > Amrun > mith >>> everyone else

I'm not going to hammer LlamaFluff just yet because I'd like to get some reading done of mith before I do that; let's see how far I get with mith's iso before I crash and burn for the night. The hammer is going to drop within 24 hours, however. (I'm not pulling a gambit this time.)

[Equinox]

Well, at least that means Llamarble isn't a scumbag trying to get a LyLo mislynch on me because DemonHybrid was his last possible partner, but it does mean that I am going to yell at him for his hammer because I WASN'T DONE. Sigh.

I'm over 400 miles away right now, so you guys will hear from me when I get home late Sunday or early Monday.

[Equinox]

So I just remembered what I'm looking at; 2 of {Amrun, Chris B, mith} are scum FMPOV, which means I shall be at least half-right no matter what. Ihihi.

It's party tiiiiiiime.

[Equinox]

I'm almost home, folks! I'll address mith's longer post when I'm not staring at a tiny screen in noontime sunlight.

Chris B, would you rather I vote LlamaFluff like Llamarble did yesterday and then let the mod lock the thread before I could present thoughts on Amrun and mith? What would be the scum motivation behind waiting to hammer?

Scum are still chomping at the bit to have their final mislynch be me. Amrun and Chris B are practically drooling there, and mith could be too but I need to read that wall better when I get home.

Come on, scum, don't be chicken. You know you want to end the game quickly before anyone finds out it's youuuuu.

[Equinox]

Okay, I was bored and read mith's post anyway. I like his post over Amrun's and Chris B's, but I need to think it over more to make sure I'm not just biased due to his read of me.

Amrun, what are your present thoughts about Llamarble?

EBWOPreview: It was 2 AM when I made that post, Chris B, and I'd spent all night reading. No way I was going to not post, and there was no way I was going to trawl through mith's posts that late at night.

I do admit to procrastinating the next morning, though, so make of that what you will.

[Equinox]

Scum are still chomping at the bit to have their final mislynch be me. Amrun and Chris B are practically drooling there, and mith could be too but I need to read that wall better when I get home.

Come on, scum, don't be chicken. You know you want to end the game quickly before anyone finds out it's youuuuu.

Since you're mentioning three people, obviously town are chomping at the bit as well.

Nope. Only two people are. My job is to figure out who the third one is, as they'll sound genuine about me as opposed to, "We're almost there, can someone just vote Equinox already so that we can win this thing rawr?"

[Equinox]

I bring greetings from Faraday.

mith, how would you describe the DemonHybrid-mith interaction?

[Equinox]

Llamarble is town. Very town.

Yes. I gathered that much. Why?

[Equinox]

I bring more greetings from Faraday... this time with some drinks fresh from the grapevine. Chris B, you were considered just as town as -- if not more than -- DemonHybrid. If I'm scum, why are you still alive?

[Equinox]

Before I answer your question, Amrun...

we lynched the only one truly remaining

Why am I not a possible partner to Llamarble?

[Equinox]

Well, you're not TOTALLY ruled out, but how okay you were with his wagon suggests you are not scum with him, and if you two arte partners, I want to lynch you anyway.

You do realize that I was in the position to play that kind of gambit to save Llamarble if I were his buddy, right?

[Equinox]

THEN VOTE.

[Equinox]

I see no merit in rushing. Why not answer my questions?

Well, there's two people out there who want to rush my lynch (three if you count me), and I want to find out if it's you. As for your question, I simply forgot. Check my iso; Llamarble's confirmed town to me at this point.

[Equinox]

Chris B, it's clear that you're following the thread, so I'm a lot more interested in why you ignored my WIFOM post and in answering your pointless question.

[Equinox]

EBWOP:

Chris B, it's clear that you're following the thread, so I'm a lot more interested in why you ignored my WIFOM post

and

than

in answering your pointless question.

[Equinox]

What do you stand to gain by asking people to vote for you at this point in the game?

Reactions, specifically Amrun's who I felt was slipping that Llamarble was confirmed town -- which is true from only my standpoint and nobody else's.

Because you think DemonHybrid was more likely to be listened to, that you don't think much of me as a player, and that you think, at a push, I'm more likely to be lynched due to my arguing with (and being on the wagon of) Llamafluff.

1) DemonHybrid's main target was Amrun. In fact, go here where he narrows it down to Amrun, Equinox, and mith, and continue in his iso to see that he never lets off Amrun. Further, why would I kill someone allied with me when, from my standpoint, you and mith just announced that you two read me as scum?
2) Well, time for me to whip out my blunt honesty. You're half-right. Initially, I used the logic that

your team

wouldn't give you a scum PM due to the possibility of culture shock outing you. That's not reflecting you, so you're wrong on that count. If you'd like a large essay about how you shouldn't be taking that assessment personally, I will be happy to give you plenty of reading material. Right now, though? Yeah, I don't think too much of you right now because I'm entertaining the possibility that you've locked yourself into a stupid tunnel to the point where I'm the designated LyLo mislynch and you managed to survive all game despite being read almost universally as town. (More on this later.)
3) Get real, Chris B. I've called you town for most of the fucking game, and everyone alive in this game right now apart from Amrun wanted to lynch LlamaFluff.

You want to rush your own lynch, Equinox?

Sure, why not? I don't know about you, Amrun, but it pisses me off endlessly when people call me scum and then refuse to vote me. Not to mention this game is the only thing standing between me and freedom from Mafia for a long time.

[Equinox]

Oh, hey, Amrun, do you think me wanting to rush my own lynch is alignment-relevant?

[Equinox]

Oh, right, the "more on this later" that I forgot to deliver in that post. Chris B's posts today have been pretty bad, but Faraday's talking me into Chris B being town and it being Amrun-mith. We shall see, I guess, since both of us have stuff to read.

I still don't. Play against wincon, Equinox. You're not doing much to convince us that we are wrong.

I'M "NOT DOING MUCH" TO CONVINCE YOU?

NOT DOING MUCH?

WHAT DO YOU THINK I'VE BEEN DOING ALL FUCKING GAME, AMRUN?

[Equinox]

Heeeeeeey. Faraday says hi again.

Amrun, why are you town?

Amrun and Chris B, what do your teams think of the game? GO.

[Equinox]

Amrun, mith, Chris B, Llamarble.