Time Travel Mafia (Game Over)

[smargaret]

/confirm

I agree with what's already been posted re: voting lynch now and how suspicious that makes people. Also, in addition to putting dead mafia at the top of the lists, we need to put dead townies at the bottom. Actually, the mod may have something to say about this -

mod: Is this a no-flip game, do you reveal alignment only, or alignment+role when a player is lynched/killed at night?

I'm suspicious of the interaction between Amrun and kcd after the doctor claim - it was pretty clear that it was a joke, but I can see Amrun's suspicion as scum distancing.

[smargaret]

Grey, all I see is discussion of the mechanic - which isn't necessarily a bad thing in a game with a strange mechanic like this - and shutting down RQS discussion which is only slightly scummy. I certainly don't have a town read on Ranger, but he's also not the scummiest player IMO. Am I reading your argument right?

I still think there's something fishy in Amrun/Kcda and would like to see more discussion on that/between them.

[smargaret]

I'm suspicious of the interaction between Amrun and kcd after the doctor claim - it was pretty clear that it was a joke, but I can see Amrun's suspicion as scum distancing.

GW, I want discussion on this point that I brought up four pages ago. Though, if you want me to ask more questions:

1. Kcd, why is Amrun town?
2. Amrun, do you still think Kcd is the scummiest person? I guess I don't understand your reasoning for saying he's scummy if he's done one (really scummy from your POV) thing and every other thing he's done has been pro-town.
3. Exe, do you think Kcd/Amrun are scum together?

[smargaret]

Right now, kcda has done the single scummiest thing in the game. However, all of his OTHER posts have looked fairly town to me so far.

After him, I would pick Ranger of the North for his post where he basically said "lol i'mma do something scummy but i'm telling you first so it's okay." But that's weak, too.

Overall, I feel we don't have much content to work with, yet; the overwhelming majority of posts have been talk about set-up clarification.

this post is why amrun is town

is transparent scumhunting, as in anyone with half a brain can see he is actively hunting scum.

Really? That post has waffling, and then picking on the target du jour, and then pointing out the obvious. It doesn't really look like scumhunting to me.

What's the point of your 150? That post makes no sense.

GW, nothing else has happened. And I didn't ignore the game, I posted about what I thought of Ranger. Nice job misrepping.

[smargaret]

I said pretty much ignored. Which holds true. You posted a null read on Ranger. Good job.

Amrun: Clearly, one of us misread what she posted. Pretty sure Smar called you distancing scum. That's not exactly buddying. Also, if I got my answer out of you, why do I need to follow it up? Do you want a pat on the back or something? I'm glad you answered it, but getting a follow-up if I found nothing worth discussing further after your answer?

You have my read on Amrun right, I have her as scum (Amrun is scummy regardless, Kcd is scummy if Amrun flips scum). I have no idea where that buddying thing came from.

[smargaret]

Do we want to release the top three living names on our lists? I'm worried that if we don't and if scum communicates we could wind up with two obvious townies on the chopping block.

[smargaret]

Right now it's Amrun/DB/Ranger/Kcd for me, the last three may shift some.

[smargaret]

GreyIce, what do you mean by "waffles?"

Also, Chronopie's in this game? Ick, I'd completely forgotten him.

Amrun, where's your list?

[smargaret]

The last time I see you listing suspects is on Saturday afternoon, Amrun - has nothing changed in your opinion since then?

[smargaret]

1. Amrun
2. DB/Mist
3.
4. Ranger
5. KCD
6. Chrono
7. Grey

Past this is nulltown or town.

Grey, Amrun v KCD is not likely to be TvT, not with the subsequent posts from both of them. If I think either one could be scum, regardless of whether they're scum together, they both go on the scummy side of the list. You should note that I didn't put them 1/2 on my list.

Trow's latest is goodposting.

I find it amusing (read: scummy) that Mist pops in, posts fluff, votes to lynch, and doesn't provide a list or ask any sort of question. Also, the two questions she's asked have not been followed up on at all - there's definitely something going on as far as Mist not contributing. The reason she and DB are tied for second is because I have more to go on from DB (so I'm more confident in my read), and a DB flip would be more informative in terms of connections than a Mist flip, but Mist is slightly more likely to be scum (very slightly, IMO, but Mist has done more scummy things - I just can't be as certain that they're legitimately scum-motivated and not Mist being Mist) and I haven't figured out which way the balance should tip.

[smargaret]

Grey, then we're going to disagree about Kcd's obvtownieness. However, you should note he's down at 5 on my list. Why are you being so defensive about my read on someone else?

[smargaret]

Me too, GreyICE.

Whenever someone looks at what I wrote and says I said something completely different, well, if I had a dayvig I'd be getting itchy trigger finger too.

[smargaret]

I don't think it's a bus, I think it could be distancing. I'm interested in why you're so invested in denying that this is even a possibility, though.

[smargaret]

Grey, look at Pirates mafia day 1. The big argument there was SvS.

The rest of these aren't relevant, so while I agree on some and disagree on others, we can discuss that elsewhere post-game.

[smargaret]

Who is "he"?

[smargaret]

Chronopie is scum.

1. Chronopie
2. Amrun
3. Doom
4. Grey (for defense of Amrun - suspicious regardless of Amrun's flip, but moreso if Amrun flips town)
5. Ranger
6. Imaginality

[smargaret]

Amrun - scum 101 is to find a townie being wagoned hard and say "Gee, I don't think X is scum, I think they're town." Then you get bonus points when X is inevitably lynched and flips town - you weren't on the wagon, in fact you were against it. You certainly fit the "wagoned hard" part of the definition, and if you flip town, then the whole scenario fits.

I could also see the attack on me/defense of you as a chainsaw defense, but I don't see those as frequently as I see the townbuddy, which is why it's worse for Grey if you flip town.

[smargaret]

Amrun - I'm not backing away from the distancing theory; I think it's more than likely that you're scum. However, I recognize that there's a chance that I'm wrong, and that if I am wrong, Grey is likely scum.

Grey, what do you think I'm trying to do? Also, why couldn't you bus your buddy if they're being obvscum?

[smargaret]

RC, the thing about Chronopie is that key phrase, "nothing he's said". Yes, to some extent it's a lurker lynch - but scum can lurk. Even when he does post, what he says proves that he isn't reading the thread, just skimming, and while he's posted a few times today, he hasn't taken a stance in those posts.

[smargaret]

v/la for Easter

[smargaret]

KCD, after all this talk - and you and Amrun have been major focuses for at least part of it - you can't summon up any more than "gut" to justify your town read?

I'm back to calling a KCD/Amrun scumpair. I think the initial townread was an overreaction to my accusation of distancing, and that now KCD is trying to back away from that as well. Their interactions just don't seem genuine.

[smargaret]

Grey beat me to it.

Zinger
KCD
DB
Amrun

[smargaret]

wait, Zinger replaced ranger, not chrono. That makes the top of my list

Zinger
Chrono's replacement
KCD
DB
Amrun

[smargaret]

You know, the one time I saw the Amished tell work, it came from a newbie. I don't buy that coming from a different meta makes things any different.

[smargaret]

the newbie I saw caught by it was female, FWIW.

[smargaret]

RC, I don't think anything's changed since I last posted my list a page ago. Zinger is obvscum now, and Maxous isn't doing much better than Chronopie.

I still need to get the bottom five sorted out, and

I will be semi-LA through Monday afternoon

, but I will PM a list to the mod as soon as I get it hammered out in case you surprise me by voting to lynch. If a vote to lynch hasn't passed by the time I get home, I'll probably vote then.

[smargaret]

I am willing to hammer to lynch, but I think we really need to agree on who's in the first spot, at least, to prevent scum from putting two townies up there that nobody really wants lynched. It appears that that person is Zinger from the last couple of pages; if everyone else agrees then I'll hammer.

[smargaret]

Two things:

1. KCD has claimed a potentially confirmable power role. Zinger has claimed VT. All other things being equal, we should lynch Zinger and give KCD a night to try to confirm himself.

2. All other things are not equal. Zinger is incredibly scummy. KCD is less scummy. You lynch the scummy people, especially after they vote themselves.

Basically, if we're wrong and they're both town, Zinger is the better kill. If KCD is scum, we'll catch him tomorrow when he fails to confirm his results. If Zinger is scum, well, the advantage to that should be obvious.

[smargaret]

Seriously? No flip? Aren't we supposed to get a warning about that sort of thing?

Top suspicions are probably Amrun (reasons same as yesterday, and the assumption that there's a lynch janitor - a role that seems horribly OP and that I've never seen before - is weird), Trow (actions in discussion), and Maxous (failure to make up for Chronopie/gut) in that order, town read on GW. I'm willing to see if KCD's kill comes through tonight.

Also, I'm having some technical difficulties that are limiting my activity. They should be resolved in a week - my computer has a virus and my fiance has no time to look at it until his exams are over - and I'll keep up, but don't expect multiple posts all day long from me.

[smargaret]

Amrun, not my only townread but the strongest townread I have.

[smargaret]

My list wasn`t random (it was a little rushed though).
Both amrun`s as grey`s stance on 1v1 tradeoffs seemed off to me, to the point they exeeded my initial case on doombunny(reactions to it helped, on all 3)
I believe(d) Kcda`s and Zingers claim
On top of the flavor-claim, the reasons for the lynch-hammer, the selfvote and the posts before seem to be consistent(wrong but consistent).
If the whole 'town should lynch me for info'thing was a trick not to get lynched(for 1 more day, as there`s no way he would have lasted longer) i doubt he would have selfvoted.

The whole (mis)lynch a VT or (mis)lynch a PR argument: agreed(was thinking the same thing)

As for Kcda`s roleclaim: 1 thing got my attention:
apart from the 'what`s so elite about a 1-shot' bodyguard, all attributes match his initial claim/joke: The Doctor (a regenerative(+/- bulletproof) JOAT with an unlimited timemachine).

This is some major fencesitting. He says they're both town and completely ignores the Amished tell - the only reason to lynch Zinger is the VT thing. This is especially weird considering that prior to Zinger claiming Trow had been very "Zingerscum!" and he just believed a VT claim? This looks like classic scum moving away from a mislynch - and while we don't know whether Zinger was a mislynch or not, we DO know that town would have no reason to back away from a lynch like this, regardless of Zinger's alignment.

RC, did you forget the Amished tell? That's why I'm pretty sure that Zinger was scum. Also, I'm pretty sure that this is a no-flip game as opposed to a lynch-janitor game because
1. I've never heard of such a thing
2. Say scum go back and nk relevant people to change the timeline so that Zinger is alive again, or say that I get nk'd tonight and a doc goes back in time to protect me n2 so I turn up alive day 4. The mod can't have flipped my alignment; that would break the game - so it must be no-flip. I asked to make sure my logic was right.

[smargaret]

Um, no. That post - and those reasons - were the source of the suspicion on Trow during the discussion phase. I just pointed out how they apply without knowing Zinger's alignment.

[smargaret]

Okay, I've decided to stay in, but I have to say quite honestly that I really wish I knew Zinger's alignment.

kcdaspot blatantly didn't follow instructions, and claimed to be using the vig tonight. Coincidentally, a scum kill is missing from day 1.

Now there'll be two kills N2? And this proves him town how exactly?

Blatantly not following instructions and this makes me want to lynch him immediately as lying scum, but I keep getting stymied by the fact that if Zinger was scum then kcdaspot is almost certainly town.

So I'm kind of fucking stuck.

kcdaspot, why the FUCK did you not vig someone night 1 like you were supposed to?

You realize that this is also explained by KCD being the target of the kill night 1? Assuming he's town, he'd be an obvious choice for the PR he claimed, and if he went to N2 and scum shot n1 there'd be no kill.

RE: The Amished tell: I understand that this tell might be correct more often than not but it

does not confirm

Zinger as mafia.
It is a theory tell - possibly a succesful one in a lot of cases - but still a theory tell.

@Mr.Trow: Who

are

your main suspects as mafia in this game anyway?

No, it doesn't confirm him as scum. However, it does mean it's more likely he was scum than not, and it makes a difference in how I, at least, approach the rest of the game.

Now, what I'm not seeing in this post is scumhunting. Care to add some?

He says they're both town and completely ignores the Amished tell - the only reason to lynch Zinger is the VT thing.

It was mainly gut(as i wrote it last minute, while at a birthday party, so yes i missed a thing or 2) however:

Zinger: either fake claiming scum (for which VT is usually quite a weak claim (as, like you just stated, it made him a safe lynch(the outing the real thing purpose is not nearly as strong as the setup is closed, but still present)))
or a lost townie who actually believed his flip would provide usefull information(which his speach seemed to imply).
I gave him the chance to back up his claim and he did. (he self-voted, if he had saved himself by that stunt and not voting himself i`ll be after him day 2, more likely scenario though, he tries to save himself with it (fails and ends up nr2 on the lynch-block), securing (probably not only) my vote in the lynch-phase)

What??? Yeah, this didn't get rid of my suspicion. Also, the "just two of them" is blatant misrep.

WE ARE NOT CLEARING PEOPLE BASED ON THEIR REACTION TO THE NO FLIP THING.

1. We're not clearing me: Even if scum have a janitor and know that flips should be revealed, don't you think scum could be smart enough to ask that question and look town? Yeah, it's WIFOMy, but it's possible and discarding the possibility is stupid.

2. We're not clearing GreyIce. Again, possible scum have something set up with associative tells, and losing flips would hurt that plan. Plus, no-flip games aren't fun to play in general; his reaction is null.

VOTE: Lynch

Could we see your whole list before doing this please?

RC, basically it comes down to this - having flips be open would be too much power to the town. There may be flaws in my hypotheticals, but those are just examples, and there are other examples out there (for instance, while doc time traveling to night 2 to revive someone would reveal that the doc was in n2, it wouldn't reveal who the doc was). Having open flips would mean that we couldn't have a doc, which is also something to be avoided.

Oh hai! Waddid I miss?

Vig him, please, KCD.

Imaginality, why do you have a townread on Trow?

Tragedy, why are you encouraging C-Worl? Also, I'm a she too.

Ghostwriter's 856 is townposting.

Could someone please link Tragedy's case on me? I can't seem to find it now.

Maxous's 863 is goodposting. He moves down my list.

Tragedy, why did you claim? You should know better.

KCD, you're not the only one in this game who's on the spectrum. Please stop using it as an excuse.

[smargaret]

So Amrun's lying about being a PR virgin, but I can't prove it to you because ongoing games. Suffice it to say this is NOT Amrun's first PR. Amrun, do you want to explain this? GW, you know what I'm talking about.

Good news, my fiance promised me a fixed computer tomorrow so my limited activity is officially over.

I still find Trow scummy, GW is even more town, Grey is hovering there in the 3-5 range. I believe Zinger was scum. I'll post more detail tomorrow when I have a better computer to do it from.

1. Zinger
2. Amrun
3. Trow
4. Grey
5. Tragedy (still looking for your case on me)

[smargaret]

At least Amrun got the right track on Smargaret.

Right now it's Amrun/DB/Ranger/Kcd for me, the last three may shift some.

1. Amrun
2. DB/Mist
3.
4. Ranger
5. KCD
6. Chrono
7. Grey

Funny how Mist suddenly gets into the list.

This is explained in the bit that you quoted right below ...

I find it amusing (read: scummy) that Mist pops in, posts fluff, votes to lynch, and doesn't provide a list or ask any sort of question. Also, the two questions she's asked have not been followed up on at all - there's definitely something going on as far as Mist not contributing. The reason she and DB are tied for second is because I have more to go on from DB (so I'm more confident in my read), and a DB flip would be more informative in terms of connections than a Mist flip, but Mist is slightly more likely to be scum (very slightly, IMO, but Mist has done more scummy things - I just can't be as certain that they're legitimately scum-motivated and not Mist being Mist) and I haven't figured out which way the balance should tip.

I find it real amusing that Smarg provides a list AFTER Mist comes in.
I see no 'Motives'... Ahem, 'Why' they should be lynched...
Although Smarg marks Amrun as top scum read, where the hell is the good reason?

The list was a formalization of things I'd been saying the whole day long. It should have been perfectly obvious why I was more suspicious of some people than others without having to spell it out - nobody else did, in fact, so why am I the only one scummy for it? This is either confirmation bias or a manufactured case.

Why is when I posted a list relevant? Time meta comes down to a bunch of things, from when someone is online, what time zone you live in, whether you're checking in from a phone or actually have access to a computer ... time meta just sucks as an argument, and I don't see you explaining how that's even scummy.

The "good reason" for Amrun as top scum read was the SAME ONE I'D BEEN GOING ON ABOUT ALL DAY LONG - namely, the interactions with KCD.

Amrun - scum 101 is to find a townie being wagoned hard and say "Gee, I don't think X is scum, I think they're town." Then you get bonus points when X is inevitably lynched and flips town - you weren't on the wagon, in fact you were against it. You certainly fit the "wagoned hard" part of the definition, and if you flip town, then the whole scenario fits.

This only reason came AFTER she keeps saying Amrun is the top scum tell. Really. At least we get the reason.. WAY after you keep saying she's scum...

Again, I don't see how this is scummy. And it wasn't the only/first time I gave a reason for Amrun scum.

Then, smarg comes in and says Zinger's so scummy without any reason as well. Along with Chronopie.
How the hell imaginality came into the scums list?
How the hell Maxous fails to make up for Chronopie, although he's actually doing a bit better than him?

Why did you originally call back the "AMRUN/KCD" scum tell earlier?

I just noticed smarg never really mentioned myself. -Gulp-

Trying to read.

1. Zinger committed the Amished tell. Is that not reason enough? And Chronopie was fluff posting.

2. Can you point out the Imaginality thing please? And please either leave the quote intact or provide a post number.

3. Chronopie was scummy. Maxous came in as a replacement, and his behavior was mildly scummy. Combine that with Chronopie being scummy, and you don't have someone scummy for flaking, you have a scummy playerslot. You know what we do with scummy playerslots? We lynch them.

4. There is scum in that exchange with Amrun and KCD. I've gone back and forth on where/how many, but I do believe that exchange wasn't TvT. I don't want it lost/overlooked.

Amrun looks even worse after that explanation - I only knew about her town PR in [redacted], which she didn't address. Can we lynch her please?

[smargaret]

or assume scum didn't know about the no-flip? (ie no janitor)?

[smargaret]

Cworl, please address Amrun's lying about the PR. Actually, please justify ANY of your stances.

[smargaret]

Amrun, you had a town power role in a game that is ongoing that we have both died in. I cannot say any more than that without risking modkill/violating the discussion of ongoing games rule. We haven't been in that many games together, it shouldn't be too hard to find.

[smargaret]

Well, I'm not going to fullclaim, because it's not to town's benefit that I do so. I'll softclaim a PR without a VT role PM, and point out all the ways that I know Amrun is lying.

- My role is also non-traditionally named, much like KCD's. This is why I was so quick to believe him yesterday. Amrun was not.

- Amrun is so totally lying about this being the first PR she's had. Her reaction after I pointed this out - flailing all over the place - is not a town reaction to this. This wouldn't be a big deal except she's trying to use it to justify her scummy behavior.

- She leaves crumbs without pointing them out at claimtime (unless you're talking about the doctor stuff? That's not a breadcrumb). I very much doubt these exist.

- She mixes up Trow and Imaginality in a last words post. We have another day and a half to get these in, and she can't take the time to go look and see which one she's talking about?

- Then add in all the other reasons I've been using to argue Amrunscum since day 1.

About sharing a scumread on Trow: It's called bussing. I suspect Amrun may be doing it.

About Amrun/KCD: I really do believe there's at least one scum in that group; now, I believe it's one scum and it's Amrun. This isn't setting up mislynches; it's applying pressure to scumreads and scumhunting - it's what town is supposed to do. Amrun was making a mountain out of a molehill in her reaction to KCD's joke, and their interaction was scummy. I called them on it.

Two little tiny theory notes: This is why we don't vote to lynch prematurely; we wind up with a crappy distribution of votes. Also, if there's a doctor out there, don't cc. If, as I suspect, this is a no-flip game, claiming a pr scum wants to out when it looks hopeless is very much to scum's advantage.

Some other notes about the game: GW is my strongest townread, with KCD in second. Scumreads are Amrun and Trow, assuming Zingerscum. Imaginality deserves some looking at for quickvoting, and CWorl and Exe are flying under the radar - I'd like to see some more attention paid to them should I not survive to tomorrow.

EBWOP ... FFS KCD I'm the COP! I get two investigations (one spent on GW, with an inno result, see the NUMEROUS times I've said he's town), a track, and a watch - my role is named Private Investigator, so I buy KCD's Elite Bodyguard claim. Town, go kill Amrunscum now, please, since I'm apparently dead anyway. Bah. I'll submit actions anyway blahblahblah.

[smargaret]

BAH

I targeted grey ice last night. I got an inno on him too.

I targeted GW n1 because I'm not certain of my ability to read him. I targeted grey because he seemed to fall in that null zone for most of the town.

I'm kind of surprised to be alive, honestly.

[smargaret]

Yep, neither of whom was dead when I targeted them, and one who likely died in response to my claiming the inno. Mafia do that, they kill confirmed innos.

[smargaret]

Trow: I had no idea which night mafia might choose to kill on, since the presence of town time machines implies scum have them as well. It was a 50-50 shot (I doubt maf would go to the future to kill), vs getting another result. I had no idea Tasky would modkill Grey.

I imagine scum chose to kill the confirmed innocent instead of me because they think they can convince you all to lynch me. Nobody was going to vote GW after my result.

I'd rather not discuss time-related powers. I don't want to make it easy for scum to find me.

Tragedy, do you suspect anyone other than me? Are you going to respond to my responses from yesterday?

Right now, Tragedy's my top suspect. Cworl just needs to die if he's not going to play the game. I'd be happy to see either of them lynched.

[smargaret]

I have no time machine. I honestly didn't think too much about my night action, because I assumed KCD's shot would go through and I couldn't do anything about it, and I saw no way for him to die N1 other than a mafia kill ... which of course, they wouldn't do because it would prevent my death. I knew Grey is a potentially strong asset to the town, so I didn't want him mislynched if he was town, and it looked like he was either scum or headed for a mislynch ... so I investigated him. Better to have certain results on someone than risk not seeing anyone.

Maxous - where was Tragedy's towntell? Right now, Tragedy is my top scumread.

If Zinger really does have a history of self-voting as town, then ugh.

C-Worl, who did you block? Your play today is much better than the trolling that was yesterday, that's what I meant by "if you're not going to play the game" because trolling isn't playing.

KCD is very likely town.

[smargaret]

Um, yeah.

Vote: Lynch

C-Worl is lying scum. There's no way we have a roleblocker and a one-shot rb, and I was not blocked last night.

Why did it take so long for C-Worl to claim to have blocked me? Once he'd claimed town blocker, why wouldn't he claim to have blocked me right then and there, especially since I'd already claimed to have received a result? Why would you block an un-cc'd cop?

This doesn't add up.

[smargaret]

*headdesk*

The idea is, you don't vote to lynch until you know who you want to lynch. You can't know that until you've read the game.

[smargaret]

Cworl is DB.

I missed about Grey being a strong player - that's meta, not this game. He's someone I've played with before and who seems to be a good player. I took him at his word that he was going to try and stick around.

A *headdesk* is exactly what it sounds like.

[smargaret]

hitting your head against a desk. frustration. the *s indicate a non-verbal action.

[smargaret]

I haven't verified this with the mod, but my assumption is that since tracking is essentially following, if the person I target goes somewhere I can't follow, I won't see anything. I don't know what happens if I follow someone who comes back from the future to the time I'm in. I assume watching works the same way. I was told nothing about how time travel interferes with watching/tracking.

Mod, are my interpretations correct? What does happen if I track X and X takes an action both in my time (N3) and travels back from N4 to act again in N3?

[smargaret]

Trow has been quite insistent. I'd only have to repost whatever answer I got. Why should I PM?

[smargaret]

Mod, will the answer to the questions in my previous post be any different if I ask them via PM?

[smargaret]

Same as KCD wrt someone trying to take over time, and also, my wincon says nothing about killing.

Lynch this scum already.

[smargaret]

I agree on the tragedy town bit now.

1. Amrun
2. Zinger
3.

C-Worl

4.

jilynne

5. Trow
6. Maxous
7. RC
8. Tragedy
9. KCD
10. Imaginality
11. Ghostwriter
12. Me

[smargaret]

That's a decent point, KCD; given that C-Worl screwed up the wincon, it stands to reason that mafia did

not

get a copy of the VT role pm. At that point, Zinger's claim looks more town. I'll revise my list accordingly.

[smargaret]

Lolno.

Did you read previous days? Did you miss un-cc'd cop claim? And why haven't you discussed C-Worl (or anyone else; surely I can't be your only read one way or another) at all?

Jilynne, this is not adequate content. Also, people tend to abbreviate my username as smar/g.

[smargaret]

Did you ask the mod? If not, please do.

[smargaret]

Tragedy, why are you asking us to fullclaim again?

I'm the town Private Investigator. I have two cop investigations - innos on GW and Grey on n1 and 2. I have a single track and a single watch remaining. I cannot time travel. The answer to how my abilities interact with time travel is given in Tasky's post.

I think it's reasonably clear C-Worl is scum, because 1. I got a result last night. 2. Why would you block an un-cc'd cop? 3. He didn't even try to argue who else might be scum in his last words post and 4. He didn't do anything as far as scumhunting today or yesterday.

I'm not as clear on jilynne. She's either overstretched and new town, or she's overstretched and new scum. I'm not sure she would have claimed like that as scum; I'll have to reread but that kind of fake claim is not the kind of thing I'd have done at this point in the game with that role as scum at a month in on this site. I'm getting more suspicious of RC after rereading today simply because he's a strong enough player that he should be taking the lead or at least participating more, and I'm really not sure where he stands - he's not supposed to be in the background. I want to see him on the block tomorrow, and I'll be voting for him in the second living spot immediately after C-Worl.

[smargaret]

So I saw jilynne visit KCD. As KCD is still alive (and so, for that matter, is jilynne) jilynne must be lying about her role.

Town don't lie about their role.

Also: I may be posting funny for the next couple of days, because I broke my toe.

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Your role got changed? That needs more explanation. Mods don't change roles mid-game unless they're deliberately being bastards, and Tasky has made it clear this game was not intended to be bastard.

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I would vote lynch if I had any clue who to put in the second position.

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RUN COWARD RUUUUUUUUUN.


srsly Jil... Get the fuck in here.

This.

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I agree; Zinger was the mislynch.

KCD, all we would accomplish by sending you back to save GW is to trade a town power role for a confirmed vanilla town. It *might* be worthwhile if you'd used up all your abilities and we were certain GW had followed along with the game, but we don't know that and I don't think the difference in certainty of alignment is worth the risk.

[smargaret]

I'm getting more suspicious of Red Coyote. His claim to not have anything to say really doesn't fit well with his ability level and the amount of stuff there is to talk about. Maxous and Trow are the other two "unconfirmed" so to speak; I'm torn between wanting those three to claim and waiting until after we lynch jilynne and see if we have another scum hiding out there or not..

Either way, I think if someone could cc Amrun, they should do so now - it won't be outing the doc, because there's no way jilynne is town and that will at least tell us if we were right and if this will be the end of the day. The only way we go to night after this is if there are four scum or Amrun was town, and Amruntown means there shouldn't be a cc, and four scum is just wrong.

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I don't buy it. First, didn't we lynch C-Worl for not knowing what his predecessor did? Second, there's just no way Tasky changed jilynne's role.

I want specifics on this extra information. Do you mean there's an SK? Or that there's another mafia member out there we haven't lynched yet?

That and the "I'm a power role" routine, I don't buy it.

[smargaret]

I'm voting lynch after jil's next post, which had better include answers to Trow's questions.

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Trow, there is no plan in your post, nor are there any questions directed at me, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. I thought you covered the elements of a full-claim well, and didn't leave any room for jilynne to put things off, which is why I'm pushing for her to answer the questions as opposed to "Oh, you mean X is supposed to be part of a fullclaim?" that we'd get otherwise.

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1. We need two votes to switch to lynch mode. My vote isn't going to shut down discussion.
2. We have, as KCD pointed out, time to discuss things even after we vote to lynch.

[smargaret]

RC, because he hasn't said anything really all game, he's (from my POV) the most likely to be scum, and the least likely to add to the post-lynch discussion.

I think it should be one of RC or Max - Trow pretty clearly has stuff to say, and the rest of us are more or less conftown.

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Why is RC town? Trag is town for knowing the town wincon; Cworl should prove that scum didn't get it.

[smargaret]

Why is RC town? Trag is town for knowing the town wincon; Cworl should prove that scum didn't get it. Also, that should prove that Zinger was town.

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um wow. I don't know how that double post happened.

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Um, yeah. I have to say, "I was mafia, but now I'm not!" is a pretty creative defense, but I don't buy it.

Jil, while you were mafia, did you have access to the scum qt? Who were your buddies? When were you given this choice (ie beginning of game or last night)? Full claim means FULL, means reveal EVERYTHING including this "I don't think I should." You're the lynch for today, and if you really are town-aligned, you need to give us this info.

Max: Holding off on answering that until jil has fullclaimed. Bug me about it if I forget.

[smargaret]

I think I've heard enough. Max, I have a track left, not a watch (I saw jilynne visit KCD last night). Trow, what questions did you have?

[smargaret]

Honestly? I suspect mod error.

[smargaret]

That's what I was planning to do, since if jil's death/scum flip doesn't end the game, the track is as good as an investigation.

[smargaret]

But if I understand KCD's role right, reviving GW/imag would mean sacrificing himself, so no, it doesn't improve the numbers. All it does is get us someone who hasn't necessarily been following the game instead of someone who's been an active participant.

Agreed that RC shouldn't claim. We're lynching jil; everything else is filler.

[smargaret]

I've already said I don't think it's worth swapping you for GW, but if you're going to, I'd definitely choose GW over Imag.

Why would I point out jil visiting you last night if I were scum? That's really what is getting her lynched today. /WIFOM

I a, as I've said many times, much more uncomfortable with RC's lack of participation.

[smargaret]

So I log in to tell Tasky that my lynch list is the same, and yeah.

Sorry, KCD. I have a horrible habit of WIFOMing as town, and it's not something I'm sure how to fix.

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Wait a minute. Trow, you were a death miller???

Also, can we get the scum qt please?

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The only reason you didn't lie to players was because Trow never died. I'd call death millers/godfathers bastard in any circumstance.

Giving Amrun the VT pm didn't prevent outguessing the mod, we just lynched town along with scum for it. I'd just put the PM in the first post of the rules - you give the scum access to everything, make it much harder for us to lynch Cworl for not getting the PM right because it's easier to excuse as paraphrasing, and send a message that you're doing what you can to prevent outguessing the mod.

[smargaret]

Say Trow claims death miller at L-1. Who believes him? Heck, say that he claims it at the start of the game - he gets lynched, he flips scum, and we have unnecessary WIFOM.

[smargaret]

The point is more, you *would* have lied to us if Trow had died, and you gave him a role that made it more likely he would have died.

[smargaret]

I would say that flips, unlike cops, are presumed to be sane, and thus death-whatevers are violations of the third comment.

[smargaret]

Also, http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =5&t=18076