Mini 1171: BSG Mafia - over - Were the humans saved?

[Tanarin]

/confirm

[Tanarin]

Actually we hit the thresh hold of 11 confirmed, so we SHOULD be getting D1 flavor any minute now

[Tanarin]

Vote: Reya

Why the hell not.

[Tanarin]

Hmm... name claim COULD be interesting to consider here. Thing is, we don't know 2 things.

A) Have scum been given safe names to claim.
B) If not, have scum already discussed possible names to use. Remember they were allowed to talk during the pre-game.

If we do any sort of name claiming though, it should be later on in the day for sure. That way we can put people we think are scummy at the front of the line.

[Tanarin]

camn, so serious so soon, huh?

Anyway, if you really want to go there, I would say because random.org said so falls under the shitty reasons clause. Also, why not go after substrike, he did not give a reason at all? Wouldn't that by your logic also fall under the "avoid giving the town any insight into your thoughts" part of your statement?

[Tanarin]

Soooo would the scum make this easy and just raise their hands please??

*Watches the group expectantly*

If only it was that easy.

[Tanarin]

Well, the only motivation I can see is if they were gonna make a meta call on camn knowing she is gonna bite and react to it. Even that reason is a stretch as if they wanted a reaction from her, I would think scum would wait until a more opportune time to make such a play. Anyway, from those who have not stated their opinion on the issue yet, how do you feel about a name claim at some point before the end of the day?

[Tanarin]

I'm not against a mass name claim. Although based on the flavor, it wouldnt be hard to make fake claims. If they are even needed.

That's a valid point. The other problem I see with a mass nameclaim is the fact we'll basically have to force a townie or two to fake claim. I can already think of at least one role where this would almost be a necessity. Not only that, a mass nameclaim alone COULD end up being a mass role claim as well, since with a few characters their role would become obvious.

[Tanarin]

Well from what I am gathering from the flavor, if you can get up to say episode 12 of the next season ooba, you should be fine for this game. Also will do on the avatar.

[Tanarin]

EBWODP: Also I see you looking at the thread Sir Ricardo Montalban. It be nice if you would say something. >.> <.<

[Tanarin]

So, as for the nameclaim, we tentatively support it. I personally think that Ooba underestimates the strength of locking scum into their roles and overestimates the ease of connecting a character to a specific role. There are quite a few characters in BSG, more than enough to populate a game of 13 without running into extras. Though I may well be wrong. At any rate, Ooba, I have a question for you. Why do you think that town power roles are likely to be linked to character, but that alignment would not be?

I think I can see where ooba is coming from, and I will explain this in my second part.

What is more concerning to me is the way that Tanarin was smokescreening the nameclaim from the first moment. In post #29, he allowed the possibility, but pushed it to the end of the day. Now by post #41, he claims that it will out townies, somehow. I fail to see why, short of provided fake claims, that a nameclaim would out the town and not the scum. Besides that, I feel like roles that are effectively Millers should out themselves as soon as possible, as Millers should. I don't want to have someone claim a really suspicious role in endgame and lose for it. This stuff should be out now.

OK, while I am in support of a nameclaim here, I think it could be risky given the flavor of this game. We are not dealing with pure cylons here. Instead we are dealing with the Demand Peace movement. I am assuming you have not seen BSG here, therefore would not be familiar with the group. It is a group of humans that wanted to end the fighting between humans and cylons. They eventually took on a Number Six model cylon in their group, (Unknowingly to the rest of the group, mind you.) Therefore names alone COULD out scum, it also gives us a possible timeline to look for characters who WOULD or WOULD NOT be in the setup. Also, there are a few characters we could EASILY tie to role, for example if Doc Cottle is in the setup, (Which given the nature of mafia in general I have no reason to believe he isn't,) we would not want to out the doc as well, and forcing him to basically fakeclaim D1 could get him lynched. I do agree millers SHOULD out themselves ASAP though.

Acronach wants not to nameclaim because he wouldn't be able to fakeclaim properly. I have no problem with people being unable to fakeclaim. It looks scummy, really.

No Arguement from me here.

Bobsnox voting camn for being serious when he could have commented on the nameclaim doesn't give me a good feeling either. The same goes for Newman. This is why being arbitrary can be scummy. Because then they don't have to comment on valid discussion.

No arguement here as well.

@substrike22 regarding post #51 Why vote twice in the same post? I assume you are basically writing stuff in the order it was posted, but why unvote/vote twice in the same post? Wouldn't a FoS on Camn suffice.

Also:

Unvote
Vote: Acronach

I would REALLY, REALLY like him to lead off any name claims we may do, though by his actions we may be getting a claim off of him real soon anyway.

[Tanarin]

Oh, frakkin hell! I did not see that one coming. OK, first off, I think we need to consider that name claim again. Second, while we did not get a lot of info on D1, we should start looking at everyone on the wagon. Third, WHERE THE FRAK IS DTMASTER AND REYA? The said nothing yesterday. They need to speak, and speak now.

[Tanarin]

@Newman: Yeah, that was the main concern I have had with nameclaiming, it would most likely out any PRs we do have in this game. I know this was seen as "smokescreening" by Ricardo. Just because I find an idea intriguing does NOT mean I don't have reservations about it. Nor in any of my other posts about a name claim did I explicitly backtrack and completely rule out a nameclaim.

[Tanarin]

Reya, I know D1 was really, really short, but do you have any input on what transpired OTHER than how short D1 was? Same question goes to DTMaster.

Also, another thing on my mind looking at the last part of the day, we should look at the people who posted between Acro's should have been obvious scum claim and the time substrike called him out. That means we need to look at myself, Ricardo, camn, bobsnox, valren. I know I am town, but I should not, nor would I ever propose I be immune to scrutiny unless I was 100% confirmed to be town. I think bobsnox should be really looked at though as he hammered before anyone could get a response from Arch. Maybe he did not see that I was the L-1 vote and it was an accident, but I think it was suspicious enough to warrant further looking into.

As another aside, how does everyone feel about substrike? As of now I feel his busting of Acro was a real town reaction and not one of scum bussing their buddy. That's just me though.

@bobsnox and newman's posts: Doesn't that seem a bit scummy to people? Especially bobsnox post...

[Tanarin]

OK, what about the rest of the names I listed? What is your opinion on them?

And you say camn is town off of post #27. What changed your mind? Also, what WAS giving you scum vibes on him in the first place?

[Tanarin]

@Ricardo: Only reason why I was looking for bussing was the fact that Arch was so blatant in nature. Scum had no time in my opinion to TRY and avoid the lynch. Also, as of this post I have seen DTM on twice and have yet to even see a hi out of him. I also saw him on right after reya posted so I KNOW he saw the first post.

FoS: DTM for lurking

[Tanarin]

Hmm, Sounds about right camn.

@DTM: Glad you could make it. As for your points on me.

1)OK, understood. My fault for not looking.

2) I have a good reason as to why town would want to fake claim their name. In fact I have a reason to think that this game is gonna stick to the flavor pretty closely. Not only given the flips we have had so far, (All the flips are well within the realm of what I would have expected,) but my own role as well. Given those facts I could see a DAMN GOOD reason for a townie to fake claim their own name. As camn and others have said though, name claiming now is practically useless now. As far as my focus on substrike's posting behavior, yes that was a bad move on my part. I was not trying to focus on that part as much as clarify in my mind about HOW he posts. He just seems like the type to post a big block and write it as he sees it looking back at the post more. As far as commenting on his reads, well not much else to say, the big read was catching arch. I think my vote says it all.

@Ricardo: I think this question still applies though:

Hello. First things first, this account is a hydra...

... overestimates the ease of connecting a character to a specific role. There are quite a few characters in BSG, more than enough to populate a game of 13 without running into extras ...

What is more concerning to me is the way that Tanarin was smokescreening the nameclaim from the first moment. In post #29, he allowed the possibility, but pushed it to the end of the day. Now by post #41, he claims that it will out townies, somehow. I fail to see why, short of provided fake claims, that a nameclaim would out the town and not the scum. Besides that, I feel like roles that are effectively Millers should out themselves as soon as possible, as Millers should. I don't want to have someone claim a really suspicious role in endgame and lose for it. This stuff should be out now.

Acronach wants not to nameclaim because he wouldn't be able to fakeclaim properly. I have no problem with people being unable to fakeclaim. It looks scummy, really.

Bobsnox voting camn for being serious when he could have commented on the nameclaim doesn't give me a good feeling either. The same goes for Newman. This is why being arbitrary can be scummy. Because then they don't have to comment on valid discussion.

First bit: Who are you a hydra of?

Second bit: I disagree. While I agree with you that it might be hard to pin certain abilities to certain people, at this point it is a disadvantage to assume that the power roles are that cleverly guised. It would make sense for the majority of the town's power roles to be concentrated on characters central to the series; therefore, I wouldn't want to risk outing them this early.

Third bit: I don't follow, other than the bit of "smokescreening", which I find kind of weak given Arco's current state.

Fourth bit: Yea so why isn't your vote there? Distancing from your scum buddy without busing him on D1?

Fifth bit: I follow your bit on Bobsnox but disagree with you on Newman. So far newman is trolling and that's about it. Annoying, slightly; scummy, not really.

Bolded the relevant part. If it was so scummy, why NOT vote him instead of just sitting there commenting on it being scummy? Seems a bit like distancing to me, ricardo.

[Tanarin]

VOTE: Tanarin

Gut feeling, will place that gut feeling into words later. He's trying to make mountains out of molehills, which always scores major scum points from me. He comes on, he asks questions that mainly pertain to how other players feel about certain other players. Trying to look popular without contributing his own reads. He's scum.

Fair enough, I can see why it can be seen as making a mountain out of a molehill. I know I was not trying to do that on my post about you. I just feel as if I don't at least defend my actions, that is even scummier than at least addressing them. As far as not making my own reads, I am trying to gather more info on how others feel and get their reactions on how they feel before I go and make any definitive reads. I have always found that you can gain a lot of insight just based on their answers about other players, especially if you see them back tracking and they can't provide a good reason as to WHY they changed theirmind.That is how I have always played the game.

What is worrying me is the whole Ricardo not saying who his two halves are. I understand they have their reasons as to not wanting to reveal, but not having any sort of meta at all to look back on is gonna make this harder to analyze any differences in behavior. At least with reya, I know where to look to get info on him (FYI: He plays mafia on MTGSalvation. I know he is pretty prolific on there.)

[Tanarin]

@bobsnox: You call out Val but not Reya? Why are you basically ignoring him? He has contributed even less than Val has

Damn day 1 was 2 days wtf? We don't have alot of info like tanarin said so a name claim is fine with me.

That is IT for reya. Why is Valhigher on your scum list then given what you have said?

@Substrike: I did not know I had to un-FoS a person

1)OK, understood. My fault for not looking.

Figured that would be enough to state that it was an honest mistake about now knowing he was V/LA.

As for the L-1 thing, yes that was my fault, I SHOULD have counted the votes before I voted myself. I did not though and we got lucky to hit scum. I should have counted, just like bob should have looked before he hammered. I am also not following how it is ironic that we needed to look at people who posted during the gap between arch's post and your catch when I was the one who not only suggested that, but put MYSELF first on the list.

As for "going after" camn, how is asking about why he voted the dice using random voter over the one who gave no reason what so ever person "going after" him. Asking for the logic is a perfectly valid question IMO.

[Tanarin]

The reason why I have not gone after reya is because I have not SEEN him on since he last posted. If I have and he did not say anything, damn straight I would call him on it. Notice both times I called out lurkers it was after i said I have seen them on multiple times and not said anything. As far as knowing the flavor, well if you have seen the series you can make a pretty reasonable guess as to what is going on here. I am still failing to see how I made a mountain out of a molehill asking camn on his reasoning of voting one way or another. Again,I think it was a relevent question and if it WAS an issue, I would have followed up with it more. Seems you are making a bigger issue out of it than I am. I obviously dropped it after she answered my question.

[Tanarin]

Which list? The one about who to look at between the arch slip and the spotting of the slip? If so, that is because reya did not post between that time.

[Tanarin]

Ahh, OK. Now I understand what you meant.

[Tanarin]

Vote Reya

He has gone and still contributed nothing,at this point there is plenty to analyze at least the thing between myself and substrike in more depth than just what he has given and he comes out with just a 2 line statement. He then goes and OMGUS substrike as soon as he votes him without any sort of other explanation. On top of all that he is still asking for a name claim that at this point has been pretty much ruled out at this point saying there is little information out there. That to me sounds like a fishing expedition. While indeed substrike's points against me are confusing at best, I still don't see it as a reason to vote him at this point.

@bob: Yeah, that is what I am gathering from SRM as well. The fact that he is a hydra does not help as well, as we have no idea still who the two heads are.

[Tanarin]

OK Valen, seeing your post , I have a few questions/comments for you.

On ISO 4: Yes I did question camn's thoughts on the vote, but you make it seem like I HAD to vote in order to make it a valid point. That's just how this part came off.

ISO 10: I think you need a reminder as to why I voted since you conveniently forgot it:

I'm not against a mass name claim. Although based on the flavor, it wouldnt be hard to make fake claims. If they are even needed.

That's a valid point. The other problem I see with a mass nameclaim is the fact we'll basically have to force a townie or two to fake claim. I can already think of at least one role where this would almost be a necessity. Not only that, a mass nameclaim alone COULD end up being a mass role claim as well, since with a few characters their role would become obvious.

i dont watch BSG so idk if this will be a problem for me or not.

no nameclaim please :/

My only sin was not warning it was L-1 and again I take the blame for that one. How do you feel though about some of the proposals that scum may not have hopped on the bus at all though?

Why would we look at the Acronach wagon to find scum? As far as I'm concerned camn, Substrike22, bobsnox, & you come off as strong town. Zang's presence on the lynch was accidental (random vote), and the other two are dead. (though I don't care for bob's apology after the fact)

I really don't know why you're searching for evidence bussing instead of avoidance. It's far more likely that scum avoided being on the speedwagon of their partner.

@Quickhammer
1. Normally I normally would expect to face quick hammers on town and we can fish out scum from the results (aka the wagon would be scum derived and we could find scum). x.x This is a first. First look tells me that the rapid hammering at the end doesn't smell like scum misfire on a bus. It's a rapid wagon, and it's only the start of D1. If you're looking for busses I would expect scum to be early on. Around the time Substrike/Volkan voted in succession on Acro any bussing attempts via votes would have treaded with caution.

I'm willing to call Bob townie for the hammer since I'd expect scum to be more cautious about the votes around the time. I'd look early on on Cam, Zang, ooba. Except Ooba is town. So that leaves Cam

Ha!
I told you guys dicerolls are scummy.

I gotta look back at the wagon.. but I am kind of inclined to agree with AGM about the hammer. It seems kind of accidental, and no scum

accidentally

hammers thier partner on

page 3

. Maybe they accidentally hammer TOWN, but not their partner. As to where the scum are? meh. anywhere but the hammer, methinks.

Will post more later

[Tanarin]

Reya, first off, who is that question to? Second of all, mind addressing the points that have been brought up against you by myself and bob? You seem really willing to just ignore my reasoning on voting you. I would like some input from you as to how you feel.

[Tanarin]

@Zang: The only thing I see ATM that needs to be addressed is the fact that scum was most likely NOT given any sort of safe claim. Just look at Arch's reaction when he addressed the issue D1. That is a big sign scum was not given claims IMO. The fact that the remaining scum was given an extra 72 hours to discuss fake claims though does make a name claim less useful now.

I also agree with substrike, let's leave the dickwagging at the door. It will only serve to derail the game. Funny enough that makes the case on Reya stronger as he too quick to make a post about it as opposed to commenting on the rest of the conversation/case against him.

[Tanarin]

Hmm... Reya is at 4... Maybe we should consider having him claim somewhat soon.

[Tanarin]

EBWODP:

In case you need clarification; I am in support of a reya claim right now. Rather have him do it on 2 than on 1 to avoid any accidents. Barring any objections, Reya claim.

[Tanarin]

OK, I think Reya is legit here on his claim, at least the flavor fits. Before I unvote though, I do need to hear his reason as to why he did not claim miller earlier. I know the issue was brought up well before the lynch.Not only that, claiming miller beginning of D1 should reya not have seen the post regarding millers in time would not have been a bad idea.

[Tanarin]

@Zang: I'm not saying Reya is clear of being scum. for all we know he COULD be a 3rd party in all this. All I said was that reya is at least flavor legit, I.E. I see nothing off the back that could be seen as discrepancy that suggests a false claim. I also agree that if we do any claims later on in the game they should be full claims and not just name claims.

@Reya: I really don't like that you somehow missed the fact that it was asked that all millers claim. Again, given the nature of the first day being so fast, it would have been perfectly acceptable to claim as your first post of D2. You did have 2 IRL days in which to read the thread and see it. Also post #147 is an awfully big appeal to emotion to me. If you have only a limited time to make a post, at least make it contribute to the topic at hand. Vote stands.