Chuck Season 1 - GAME OVER

[PeregrineV]

Hello fellow Nerd Herders!!

Great show, so expecting a great game.

VOTE: Energetic Penguin

Where does the energy come from?

[PeregrineV]

How about we all restate our cases so we can re-examine them and see if we still find them valid.

My case on Energetic Penguiin:


All right. Let's hear everyone elses cases!

[PeregrineV]

@EP- C'mon, how often would I ever really get to use that gif otherwise. It's classic!!

@Channel- Your case is so uttering compelling, I am very surprised. Each time I read it, I get chills and see things in a new light.

Opps, sorry. That was just gas.

@Ant_to_the_Max-I'm here. Are you going to vote EP for his famous Penguin slap?

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.
Vote: Thor.

But what about the beard?

[PeregrineV]

Unvote: Thor.

We want more Thor, not less Thor.

@ReaperCharlie- Your machine's either 50% or 100% busted.

[PeregrineV]

Unvote: Thor.

We want more Thor, not less Thor.

@ReaperCharlie- Your machine's either 50% or 100% busted.

A) Please explain your unvote.
B) Please explain your comment "more Thor, not less Thor".
C) If you don't want Thor gone, then... why were you voting for him?
D) What reason do we have to believe you that my WA™ 3000's broken?
E) It's maintained on a bi-weekly basis. Ergo I know it's in top form.

A- L-1 is too easy to hammer, and I currently don't feel Thor is scum, and there's no impending deadline.

B- Pressure is to encourage responses. I voted for pressure, not to lynch (taking Thor out of the game).

C-See B. Pressure.

D- I'm not scum, so it's at least 50% broken. If Rag is town, then it's 100% broken.

E- But, if the warranty has expired, then all bets are off.

[PeregrineV]

@ReaperCharlie- Your machine's either 50% or 100% busted.

Which of these options do you think is more likely, Peregrine?

I have no clue right now. Rag has done no more or less than other players so far today, so he hasn't particularly earned a scum or town read.

[PeregrineV]

@Rag- It worked. I thought you were displaying a superb bout of sarcasm to guage reactions, but merely did not use the sarcasm smiley.

[PeregrineV]

I have no clue right now. Rag has done no more or less than other players so far today, so he hasn't particularly earned a scum or town read.

What do you think of post 168?

I don't think town necessarily has to react with suspicion. I think Rag was pointing out the irony of it all, fully aware that one of his votes was one of the ones being mentioned (myirony read comes from the "LOL" at the beginning of the sentence) But, I may be wrong. Only Rag knows for sure.

If he actually got lynched in that manner, it would be a different story.

[PeregrineV]

@RC-You never asked anyone anything, much less me.



Wait, did you call me a dorshbag? After telling me answer a question you never asked?


VOTE: ReaperCharlie

P-edit: Chuck comes on tonight.

[PeregrineV]

Hey CDB, I have to disagree (yes, that ryhmed!)

ReaperCharlie called me names, ignored my posts, randomly posts 2 man scum teams, and in general does not bathe regularly. He would be a perfect lynch candidate, and people will love you if you vote for him.

@Thor- Vote for RC and we'll buy you new ribbons for your beard.

[PeregrineV]

@Rag- no, but Mastermind of Sin only posting 3 times and not adding a drop to the thread is annoying.
I also like the ability to read each persons posts all grouped together. I'll do that again in the next few days and see if anything stands out.

@CDB- No, first time I heard/saw/played with him is this game.

[PeregrineV]

this game is just filled to the brim with cool people.

@Peregrine: Any reason in particular you don't find anyone suspicious?

This game is just filled to the brim with cool people.

And, lots of suspicious behavior, but not mafia-type suspicious behavoir.

Not sure a re-read will help a this point, but will probably do that in the next day or two, unless something else happens.

[PeregrineV]

Since I am not yet assured of the intentions of RC, I can't fully agree with his case on Dana, although I might be interested in hearing more.

EP is sounding remarkably reasonable. And, another point of posting is to generate conversation, not wait until it is turned to you.

Unvote. Vote: Mastermind of Sin

[PeregrineV]

My intentions are to lynch scum.

Also, you misspelled danakillsu.

Good to hear- I look forward to it.

It was a short version of Danakillsu.

[PeregrineV]

Despite the way what looks?

This is the only thing I could find in your post that was about me and was not full of crap. Before I answer this, I have to deal with the rest of it, though. Please READ YOUR POST. OUT LOUD. TO YOURSELF. There is absolutely nothing besides this that is about me that uses any reasoning or could lead to any reasoning. You literally just assumed I am scum and thought "Hmm...how would scum sound doing this?" and just said I sounded like that. Nothing about WHY PeregrineV is not scum or WHY the thing I mentioned are not scumtells or WHY my points are minor, you just say they are and expect people to believe you. None of this is gonna stick, so you might as well just stop throwing it at me and hoping that just maybe it will.
To answer this question, though, what he's doing honestly doesn't look great and he even admitted it by saying he couldn't prove he wasn't just waiting for you to vote. It sounds really lame that he just "forgot" to vote earlier, but he doesn't care. That's a towntell, imo.

But you also have to realize that since I know I'm town, his agrument look pretty reasonable. Of course, I naturally distrust everyone until they're dead, but knowing my role, I would be more inclined to see his side over yours.

Of course, others may do the same depending on how they already view the players involved. So, it may stick.

[PeregrineV]

In fact his play is fluffy and directionless in general.

@Thor- Since I don't think I've seen your play as scum yet, and I don't find this completely unfounded at this point, can you respond?

[PeregrineV]

But you also have to realize that since I know I'm town, his agrument look pretty reasonable. Of course, I naturally distrust everyone until they're dead, but knowing my role, I would be more inclined to see his side over yours.

Of course, others may do the same depending on how they already view the players involved. So, it may stick.

What the heck are you talking about? Because you're town, you have to believe RC when he says I'm scum? You naturally distrust everyone, but trust his opinions despite his lack of reasoning?

This:
1. There is nothing scummy about the sentiments in that statement.

This:
Bad things in this iso include: Complete nitpicking of points so minor they shouldn't even be mentioned, calling people out for scumtells that don't exist, using phrases like "half-heartedly non-commits to a reread of the game" which is obviously framing the situation in a favorable light to your case, and attempting to exude an aura of confidence even when under obvious duress, which is exactly what Andrius was doing (or at least attempting to do).

and this:
I mean, Andrius's PBPA was worse, obv, and I lynched him for it. But this one is still very terrible and I'm interested as to why CDB ignored it and instead confirm-voted on someone who's not that scummy in comparison.

If I thought you were scum, you'd feel the wrath of my mighty vote. So, no, I don't think that yet, but trust his opinions listed above.
But, please expand more on why he is wrong. Maybe you'll convince me to vote him again.

[PeregrineV]

Hmm, was a bit suspicious of CDB's confirm vote on Peregrine, but I like the way he explained himself. I'm willing to see what Peregrine does when the discussion turns his way.

Unvote, Vote: PeregrineV

I like the way you liked the way he explained himself.

I think Peregrine is legit scummy, though. I quoted the sentence I did because it's worded from the perspective of scum who are afraid of having discussion turn to them. Town don't need to be afraid of that.

[PeregrineV]

I assumed that the post above was pending an EBWOP, seeing as you forgot to type your point.

Note: I generally avoid post wars this early in the game, as I find them fairly pointless. But, luckily, I got time while my hot pocket cooks.

My point was that

I

liked the way

he

liked the way you explained yourself. Your explaination being:

(1)I think Peregrine is legit scummy, though. (2)I quoted the sentence I did because it's worded from the perspective of scum who are afraid of having discussion turn to them. (3)Town don't need to be afraid of that.

To break down how you explained yourself:

1. Opinion.
2. Opinion.
3. Opinion.

So, Mastermind of Sin liked your opinions. I liked how he liked it.

Hope this helps.

[PeregrineV]

But you also have to realize that since I know I'm town, his agrument look pretty reasonable. Of course, I naturally distrust everyone until they're dead, but knowing my role, I would be more inclined to see his side over yours.

Of course, others may do the same depending on how they already view the players involved. So, it may stick.

What the heck are you talking about?

Because you're town, you have to believe RC when he says I'm scum?

You naturally distrust everyone, but trust his opinions despite his lack of reasoning?

This:
1. There is nothing scummy about the sentiments in that statement.

This:
Bad things in this iso include: Complete nitpicking of points so minor they shouldn't even be mentioned, calling people out for scumtells that don't exist, using phrases like "half-heartedly non-commits to a reread of the game" which is obviously framing the situation in a favorable light to your case, and attempting to exude an aura of confidence even when under obvious duress, which is exactly what Andrius was doing (or at least attempting to do).

and this:
I mean, Andrius's PBPA was worse, obv, and I lynched him for it. But this one is still very terrible and I'm interested as to why CDB ignored it and instead confirm-voted on someone who's not that scummy in comparison.

I realize that you think RC's side of the argument is better than mine.

But you didn't answer my question, which is whether you being town in fact MEANS you have to believe I'm scum

via RC's arguments. Because that is literally what you were saying in that post.

If I thought you were scum, you'd feel the wrath of my mighty vote. So, no, I don't think that yet,

but trust his opinions listed above.
But, please expand more on why he is wrong. Maybe you'll convince me to vote him again.

Ironically, you choose to use the word trust despite you saying that you did not trust anyone. But even more importantly, THAT LAST SENTENCE IS EXTREMELY SCUMMY. Why, you ask?
1) Because even if I could prove beyond a doubt that he was wrong, it wouldn't make him scum.
2) I don't particularly want anyone voting RC at this juncture.
3) I REALLY don't want to try to convince my top scumread to vote anyone (except himself, if that's allowed). You being convinced and voting someone would only make me think they were actually town.

Blue highlights for your enjoyment.

And more answers from out of the

blue

:

Maybe you'll convince me to vote him again.

Ironically, you choose to use the word trust despite you saying that you did not trust anyone. But even more importantly, THAT LAST SENTENCE IS EXTREMELY SCUMMY. Why, you ask?

Why?

1) Because even if I could prove beyond a doubt that he was wrong, it wouldn't make him scum.

How does this make the sentence scummy?

2) I don't particularly want anyone voting RC at this juncture.

Why not?

3) I REALLY don't want to try to convince my top scumread to vote anyone (except himself, if that's allowed). You being convinced and voting someone would only make me think they were actually town.

Still not seeing how that makes the sentence scummy. After all, you are posting all this crap to try to get people to agree with you. If you can get me to agree with you, I think you'd be very happy.

[PeregrineV]

@ PeregrineV
I don't want anyone voting RC because I don't believe he's scum.
Voting RC is not "agreeing with me". It's actually doing the opposite.
How what I've said makes your sentence scummy would, I think, be plain to see.

No it's not.

If you say "Maybe you'll convince me to vote him again." and convincing you to vote him is not something I want to do, you're misrepping my purposes.

Ok, now I get it after re-reading. You want me to think he is wrong in your argument, but not vote for him because he's not scum. In that case it was a misunderstanding. But, even after understanding, I'm not getting why you would care what I think if I'm scum. Get it?

If you're my top scum candidate, you're trying to get me to do something scummy by persuading you to vote someone else, which has no pro-town motivation.

Ok, I'm trying to get you to do something scummy by being persuaded by you to vote someone else? So, if you do persaude me, you become scum?
Do you see how this doesn't make sense when one employs common sense?

And back to this:

But you also have to realize that since I know I'm town, his agrument look pretty reasonable. Of course, I naturally distrust everyone until they're dead, but knowing my role, I would be more inclined to see his side over yours.

Of course, others may do the same depending on how they already view the players involved. So, it may stick.

This is DEFINITELY saying that you have to believe I'm scum. Let's look at what happened here.
1) ReaperCharlie calls me scum, partially because of the way in which I called you scum.
2) I tell him that his points aren't going to stick because they don't use logic. Context will pretty clearly tell you that I'm saying his efforts to make me look like SCUM are not going to work.
3) You say why you're inclined to take his side. Your main reason is the town role you say you've been given. You say OTHERS MAY DO THE SAME, AND IF SO, THAT

IT MAY STICK

. In other words, if people take the same path you have, they will believe RC's arguments and think that I'm scum. I dare you to try to retcon your way out of that one, cause your words are pretty plain to see. So I ask you again: What about you being town and others being town WOULD make you AND them believe that RC is right and I am scum?

It was not saying that I beleive you to be scum, but after all the "hard work" you've put into your non-case on me, and then arguing your non-case with another town member (according to you), and then arguing it even more with me, I think you have changed my mind.
1) Yes he did. I saw that. Bad RC. :handslap:
2) Your opinion, but I see why you would want others to ignore his efforts.
3) I was actually referring to only RC's arguments that I posted the points to, about your case being weak on me. But, I can see how you would be worried about being perceived as scum, as I think that is the whole point of you post here.
What is retcon?
Yes, I have been using smaller words in order to help some readers.
Once again, I was pointing out the portions of his argument about the case being weak on me. I can repost them, but others can scroll up or page over to see: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 4#p3017844

Ok, I did link it...

[PeregrineV]

@Dana- Ok, I agree with you.

Unvote.
Vote: Danakillsu

[PeregrineV]

What's ITT?

[PeregrineV]

@Dana- Read my iso. What is it I'm looking for?

Did some re-reading:

Dana- Annoying as shit, but probably town. Is at least putting forth effort, even if misguided.

Rag- town unless Dana flips, which would be sweet, but not likely.

Ani- maxscum replaced by Magua, who currently reads pretty town.

More reads/re-reads as they occur.

[PeregrineV]

P-edit:

GAIZ 3 BODIEES IS TOWN

Who is scum?

Also, when you just call the person you're currently voting town, it is customary to vote someone else. Such as a person you believe to be scum.

Also also, I pre-emptively admit that my quote of you may not be exact.

No problem, I fixed the quote for you. Since your quoting me, I think that's ok.

Got 8 more people to read. If I don't find anything in there, I'm doing it wrong and will start over.

Dana still scummiest, but not in lynch danger before I read some more, so I'm leaving my vote there for now.

[PeregrineV]

OK- CDB reread:

Scummiest so far. 80% of posts are one-liners. Mostly comments. Some questions.
Total scum found in 500 posts: Me.
Case provided on, for, to or about me: 0

EP re-read:
Some townish reads, some scummish reads. Not result would be null, but going to put on the thin line just on the town side.
Ongoing fav lynch: Mastermind of Sin

[PeregrineV]

OK- CDB reread:

Scummiest so far. 80% of posts are one-liners. Mostly comments. Some questions.
Total scum found in 500 posts: Me.
Case provided on, for, to or about me: 0

EP re-read:
Some townish reads, some scummish reads.

Not

result would be null, but going to put on the thin line just on the town side.
Ongoing fav lynch: Mastermind of Sin

EBWOP:

Net

result would be null, but going to put on the thin line just on the town side.

[PeregrineV]

80% of posts are one-liners.

Succinctness is pro-town.

Yes.

Mostly comments. Some questions.

This is fairly meaningless. Discuss more why this is bad.

Looks like your trying to look like you're doing something without doing anything.

Total scum found in 500 posts: Me.

I've expressed suspicion of Ant more than once and also said I'd happily lynch EP.

I counted votes.

[PeregrineV]

OK, I'm rereading the whole game and writing this post as I go through. Let's start with explaining why I'm voting for Peregrine at the moment:

This post is why my vote moved there immediately. Peregrine declined to comment on the RC/Thor early game interaction which IMO was the first definable thing that happened in the game and instead made a spampost with a funny image.

Is was funny wasn't it?

He also said "Let's hear everyone else's cases", which struck me as a little weird, seeing as his case was a funny image - seemed like he was encouraging more random spam rather than getting on with the game.

So in effect I was asking them to restate thier cases and take down the randomness level but making them think about thier votes, and you decided that I was encouraging more random spam? So you ignored the actual words I wrote? Or did you merely apply new meaning to the existing words?

I found it interesting, so I moved my vote to him. I didn't make any further comment because I wanted to see if/how he/others would react to it.

This post by Ant was the first interesting reaction I got, once I "bumped" my vote. This is the sort of post that I've let scum get away with before - in which I vote or announce suspicion on someone without elaboration and a scum goes "yeah, I had a funny feeling too" or similar to try and look like they're sharing my thought process. This is a big part of why I think Ant is likely scum.

Peregrine then makes this post after a few pages away. He makes a point of commenting only on the fact that I am voting for him and also some references to the early page spam shenangians. Nothing else.

Meanwhile, back in the Bird-Cave, CDB composes his own nefarious post in this time frame, and posts it!

Nothing else.

Then he jumps on the Thor wagon when a couple of other people do. Exploitative.

Inside joke.

Then all of a sudden he doesn't want Thor wagoned. It's not as if anything in between his vote and unvote actually came from Thor, or had any reasons from anyone as to why he shouldn't be being wagoned after all.

Yes, Thor was at L-1, and one more vote would lynch him. I didn't actually want him lynched, as he seems pretty townish. So why keep him at L-1 and make it easy for someone to do? And you agree with me,

but

, it's still part of your arguement about why I'm scum?

Meanwhile, Ant no longer seems to have found Peregrine suspicious after all.

This is a really interesting post from Ant, in that it

looks

like he's saying something, but he's actually not saying anything at all. He's trying to look as if he has a reaction to the fake daykill without actually giving an opinion.

In this post,, Ant makes excuses for lurkers (which he can potentially refer to later when a lurking scumbuddy comes up for suspicion). His Peregrine vote is quite interesting and I'm not sure what to make of it either way (reluctant to draw any direct connections between anyone before we get a scumflip, anyway).

Ant does get town points for giving opinions on everyone unsolicited. Gives me pause.

I've already pointed out why I think the second part of this Peregrine post is scummy, but the first part of it is, too. See Peregrine straddle the fence with expert precision refusing to make a stand either side of the RC/dana debate.

So what I'm hearing is that in your opinion my post was anti-town and mafia-team inspired because I refused to take either Danakillsu or ReaperCharlie's side in a debate they were having?
Well, since it's your opinion, you can't really be wrong, now can you? However, I might point out your opinion has it's roots in faulty reasoning. People are allowed to debate without my interjecting anything. They are allowed to do this anytime. I am allowed to interject, if I so desire. I can do this at any time. I can interject, and state my feelings, thoughts, opinions, etc. They can be my own and not mirror one of the debaters. Or they can wholly or partially match the side of one of the debaters.
For the record, my stand on that debate is the same as CDB. Please provide the link so we both know where we both stand.

This ReaperCharlie post stood out weirdly on reread. He complains that I didn't comment on dana's iso read and subsequent vote on Peregrine then uses it as evidence that dana and I are scumbuddies. He also says that "only stupid town or scum confirm vote" which is such an incredible generalisation (I mean, blatantly false). Yes, he has the audacity to call

me

a "tunneling townie". This is RC who's been going after dana all game on pretty much no reasoning.

Back to Peregrine, and this post shows him simply dimissing a reasoned explanation from me about the psychology of scum players and why I thought one of his posts was worded in a way more likely to come from scum than town as "opinion". He also says he wants to avoid "post wars", which appears to mean "having any kind of discussion with the people who are voting for me at all".

I believe the post shows that I am pointing out that you are expressing opinions and expect us, the readers, to take them as fact. You do it again in the sentence above. You are the only person voting me, and it took you 3 weeks and 20 pages to put up a case, half of which is your suspicions of other players, and you would like "discussion" on it?
OK. Here it is.
I see your opinion, and dismiss it entirely since I know my own alignment.

tl;dr:

Peregrine is scum. Everything Ant has done makes me think he's scum apart from this post which came out of nowhere to give an opinion on everyone and now makes me really unsure. RC is on my radar now.

So far, Ant and RC haven't stood out as particularly scummy, but I haven't finished my re-read of them yet.

[PeregrineV]

Spoiler: Post under discussion

Ugh. I spent a long time writing this post because I have had trouble expressing myself calmly and rationally.

He also said "Let's hear everyone else's cases", which struck me as a little weird, seeing as his case was a funny image - seemed like he was encouraging more random spam rather than getting on with the game.

So in effect I was asking them to restate thier cases and take down the randomness level but making them think about thier votes, and you decided that I was encouraging more random spam? So you ignored the actual words I wrote? Or did you merely apply new meaning to the existing words?

When you say "let's hear everyone else's cases" after announcing that your idea of a case at that point was one penguin slapping another one in the back of the head, that looked like encouraging random cases to me.

However, it looks like you're saying here that you were making some kind of sarcastic point in that post about how everyone's cases for votes at the time were about as good as penguin gifs and thereby challenging people to raise their games, and that's something that I completely didn't get from it but can see it now that you've explained it, so I'm prepared to retract that criticism.

I found it interesting, so I moved my vote to him. I didn't make any further comment because I wanted to see if/how he/others would react to it.

This post by Ant was the first interesting reaction I got, once I "bumped" my vote. This is the sort of post that I've let scum get away with before - in which I vote or announce suspicion on someone without elaboration and a scum goes "yeah, I had a funny feeling too" or similar to try and look like they're sharing my thought process. This is a big part of why I think Ant is likely scum.

Peregrine then makes this post after a few pages away. He makes a point of commenting only on the fact that I am voting for him and also some references to the early page spam shenangians. Nothing else.

Meanwhile, back in the Bird-Cave, CDB composes his own nefarious post in this time frame, and posts it!

Nothing else.

In the post you linked to, I think it's fairly obvious that I'm asking for other players to look at you to see if they see what I'm seeing. By asking MarchHare to stop acting like Ythan was his main, I meant that I wanted him to stop posting loads of tiny little posts, thereby reducing spam levels. By contrast, in this post, you're actually encouraging spam by making more jokes about the long-dead RVS.

Then he jumps on the Thor wagon when a couple of other people do. Exploitative.

Inside joke.

So, after 7 pages of game, you joined a fast-moving bandwagon because of an inside joke?

Then all of a sudden he doesn't want Thor wagoned. It's not as if anything in between his vote and unvote actually came from Thor, or had any reasons from anyone as to why he shouldn't be being wagoned after all.

Yes, Thor was at L-1, and one more vote would lynch him. I didn't actually want him lynched, as he seems pretty townish. So why keep him at L-1 and make it easy for someone to do? And you agree with me,

but

, it's still part of your arguement about why I'm scum?

Just because I think Thor is town (and for the record, at the time I was actually of this opinion rather than the one you linked to) doesn't mean that you unvoting Thor can't be scummy, and you don't get to say that just because you made an action that objectively made Thor less liable to death then I shouldn't find the details of it scummy. That's a fallacy. Given the circumstances - you had just voted for Thor a few posts ago in a manner that did not at all make it obvious that it was some kind of loljoke - suddenly jumping off him again looked really weird.

Meanwhile, Ant no longer seems to have found Peregrine suspicious after all.

This is a really interesting post from Ant, in that it

looks

like he's saying something, but he's actually not saying anything at all. He's trying to look as if he has a reaction to the fake daykill without actually giving an opinion.

In this post,, Ant makes excuses for lurkers (which he can potentially refer to later when a lurking scumbuddy comes up for suspicion). His Peregrine vote is quite interesting and I'm not sure what to make of it either way (reluctant to draw any direct connections between anyone before we get a scumflip, anyway).

Ant does get town points for giving opinions on everyone unsolicited. Gives me pause.

I've already pointed out why I think the second part of this Peregrine post is scummy, but the first part of it is, too. See Peregrine straddle the fence with expert precision refusing to make a stand either side of the RC/dana debate.

So what I'm hearing is that in your opinion my post was anti-town and mafia-team inspired because I refused to take either Danakillsu or ReaperCharlie's side in a debate they were having?
Well, since it's your opinion, you can't really be wrong, now can you? However, I might point out your opinion has it's roots in faulty reasoning. People are allowed to debate without my interjecting anything. They are allowed to do this anytime. I am allowed to interject, if I so desire. I can do this at any time. I can interject, and state my feelings, thoughts, opinions, etc. They can be my own and not mirror one of the debaters. Or they can wholly or partially match the side of one of the debaters.
For the record, my stand on that debate is the same as CDB. Please provide the link so we both know where we both stand.

Not exactly. What I'm saying is that you made a point of wading into the debate in order to come down square on the middle of the fence with your options wide open. You said "I doubt RC's intentions but I like his case on dana" - looks a lot like you're trying to give yourself room to manoeuvre later if the dana wagon gets serious. I didn't say you couldn't interject on the debate, but you had nothing to contribute to either side. You just wanted to look like you were having an opinion without having one.

This ReaperCharlie post stood out weirdly on reread. He complains that I didn't comment on dana's iso read and subsequent vote on Peregrine then uses it as evidence that dana and I are scumbuddies. He also says that "only stupid town or scum confirm vote" which is such an incredible generalisation (I mean, blatantly false). Yes, he has the audacity to call

me

a "tunneling townie". This is RC who's been going after dana all game on pretty much no reasoning.

Back to Peregrine, and this post shows him simply dimissing a reasoned explanation from me about the psychology of scum players and why I thought one of his posts was worded in a way more likely to come from scum than town as "opinion". He also says he wants to avoid "post wars", which appears to mean "having any kind of discussion with the people who are voting for me at all".

I believe the post shows that I am pointing out that you are expressing opinions and expect us, the readers, to take them as fact. You do it again in the sentence above. You are the only person voting me, and it took you 3 weeks and 20 pages to put up a case, half of which is your suspicions of other players, and you would like "discussion" on it?
OK. Here it is.
I see your opinion, and dismiss it entirely since I know my own alignment.

I'm not trying to force anyone to accept my opinions as fact. I never said that I was offering anything other than an opinion, but I gave reasons why I held that opinion based on the psychology of playing scum, and your rebuttal to those reasons were "that's an opinion". Of course it is! Telling me that it's just an opinion doesn't somehow make that opinion more baseless.

Again I have a problem with how you are representing me here - why do you say "a case, half of which is your suspicions of other players"? That post was my catchup post of the entire thread, it wasn't all about you, obviously. At the top of the post I said "let's start with explaining my vote on Peregrine" and that was what I started with, but it wasn't saying that everything that followed was part of why I was voting for you. You're trying to make out like the points that I brought up against you are less valid because I also talked about some other people in the same post.

Mafia is about opinions. Expressing yours and examining others. Giving reasons for yours so that you can convince other people to agree with them. I've given opinions. I've given reasons behind them. You keep dismissing those opinions out of hand for being opinions rather than engage with me about the reasons behind them.

Ugh. I want to bang my head against a wall. Whether it's deliberate or just natural personality friction between us, you are really getting under my skin. I don't want to insult you, and I don't want to get so worked up about this that I get biased. Parts of your last post felt more townish than your previous ones. Other parts I'm trying to decide if they're scummy or if I just want them to be because they're working me up. I hate these kinds of wallposts, but I feel like I have to make one here because I feel like you're misrepresenting me either deliberately or through misunderstanding. I am also having a bit of trouble expressing myself and hope that everything in this post is clear and understandable.

Apologies in advance if I come across as a dick in this or future posts.

I won't wall it again, as that will make it too big, but I'll address some of it.
Thor vote: There were three on him, I made a fourth. No big deal. But within 6 posts ooba and RC voted him to L-1. So I unvoted.
But, I do see you trying to call me out for voting him and then for unvoting him. In my opinion, you can't have it both ways.
And the only person meant to get the joke was Thor. But now, everyone can share in it.

Dana/RC: I already had suspicions about RC, but his case on dana I felt had some pretty good points. However, those good points mitigated the argument, so I did not buy fully into it. I had no problem letting the debate continue and making a decision based on more information. In my opinion, using the most information possible helps to make a better decision.

Opinions: Yes, but wanting me to discuss your opinions I will do so based on the knowledge I have. Of course, others are free to form an opinion based on your opinions, but I just wanted to point out that in any discussion with me about me, I will weigh my facts more heavily against your opinion.

And didn't intend to misrepresent, I used the first sentence as the basis of your thread. I apologize if you meant it only as a starting point.

Getting under your skin: Now you know why Thor joined.

My main point is if you want me to discuss your case on me, I will accept your opinions as opinions, but probably won't agree with them. Since, you, know, it's actually about me and I know why I didn the things I did. But, as I said, others may put more stock into them, so please continue. Your posts are clear and I think I understand what you are trying to say, but just disagree with parts of it.

Don't worry, your posts are perfectly accpetable game wise- I see no dickishness at all.
And don't sweat it too much, it's just a game.

[PeregrineV]

MarchHare re-read:
Seems to be helpful. But also seems mostly reaction-based posting. Null for now, slight scummy. Also last post 3 days ago.

Mastermind of Sin:
Seemed to be lurking with little orginal content, but later posts contribute more thought. Null for now, slightly town.

[PeregrineV]

MikeBurnFire reread:
Seems sincerely town, but a better read on him will depend on Dana/Ooba re-read and re-re-reread.

Note: Has dana and ooba as scum.

ooba reread:
Mostly town. Seems involved in the conversation and in results.
Note: has dana and MikeBurnFire as town.

[PeregrineV]

Last re-reads are
Rag- first 38 posts are one-liners or individual interaction respones. More fully developed posts don't arrive until 38. Then there are a few and it trickles back down. Null to slight scummy.

ReaperCharlie- Big push for an alliance, but it's currently made up of 2. Slight town for now.

Thor- Seems town, but for Thor there is a bit less interaction than I normally expect from him. That takes him from a hard town to soft town. And total Thor beard intimidation tactics? Current count= 0. Even more odd. Going down to null, with quick potential to move either way.

[PeregrineV]

Unofficial vote count, deadline in about 8 hours.

danakillsu (4): PeregrineV, mikeburnfire, ReaperCharlie, Mastermind of Sin
ReaperCharlie (1): MarchHare
mikeburnfire (1): danakillsu
Energetic Penguin (5): Magua, Thor665, Ragnarokio, ooba, ChannelDelibird

Not voting (2) : Energetic Penguin, Ant_to_the_max

[PeregrineV]

Honestly not liking either a Dana or EP lynch...

Won't let a no-lynch happen, but I can and will wait until the deadline.

Unvote.
Vote: Mastermind of Sin

since I feel he is actual scum.

[PeregrineV]

@Ooba- it will probably be EP. I think he got bored because he's VT, but that's the strongest thing going for him right now.
Dana's posts actually give a strong town indication to me right now.

Deadline is 10:59 pm Central (11:59pm EST), which is just under 8 hours from now.

I think we can get a MoS lynch if we try super hard.

[PeregrineV]

She wasn't a serious lynch candidate until now, and I think I mentioned she's annoying, but probably town.

[PeregrineV]

Deadline will be extended 48 hours after a replacement is found.

@Mod: Does that mean day ends 48 hours after a replacement is found, or does day end in under an hour?

[PeregrineV]

I count 7, but that used Magua's unofficial vote count a few pages back.

[PeregrineV]

Well, if EP is not lynched, at least day is extended (deadline passed).

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- I like the investigative questions. However, how about a

little

lot of opinion on the game, players, actions, etc?

@Magua- exactly and exactly.

Vote: ooba

I would really like an in depth explanation of your confusion, like it's your own private diary. Please.

@Mikeburnfire
In your post 626 Dana is one of your three biggest suspects, yet you then state:

Confusion is a scumtell? Since when? Ooba believed RC to be scum, and he wasn't, so now he's thrown off. Seems simple to me.

Although, it is possible that Peregrine could be scum while dana is town, but I find that less likely of an option.

Really? I find it to be entirely possible. It would explain that why, near the end of the day when there was two strong townie wagons, he would throw his vote elsewhere. Perhaps on his scummate.

Can you please explain in deep detail why Dana and Ep were both strong townie wagons? What does that mean? That both are town? Or that there is a lot of town members on both wagons?

You outscummed ooba with this. I eagerly await a clear explanation.

Unvote.
Vote: Mikeburnfire

FoS: ooba

(I still want to hear alll about the confusion)

@Rag- what are you town/scum reads? And why?

@EmpKing- Why going back to Rag? You can say they were scummy day1, but since your replacing in gives you a "fresh" prespective, can you be specific?

[PeregrineV]

Can you please explain in deep detail why Dana and Ep were both strong townie wagons? What does that mean? That both are town? Or that there is a lot of town members on both wagons?

In the scenario described, we are speculating that dana is town, and Peregrine is scum. Since the wagons on EP and dana were strong at the end of day 1, a scum would not bother getting involved and throw his vote elsewhere.

Well, in post 626, you had Dana listed as one of your "biggest suspects". Please walk me through the transition from "biggest suspect" to "townie" from post 626 to 629. It honestly seems like a bad slip on your part, because leaving off the word townie and your post makes more sense. But since you included the word, it has raised flags with me.

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- I like the investigative questions. However, how about a

little

lot of opinion on the game, players, actions, etc?

You're saying I haven't been doing this, or you want a recap, or what? I haven't been fond of wallposting for quite a while now.

I'm ok with walls. I'd like to hear your thoughts on current game events, the latest lynch and NK, and your reads on the players, and kind of what influences those reads.

Have you already been doing this? I know you were out for a bit, but with a new day=fresh hunting time!

Ugh. I can't be on the same wagon as PeregrineV.

@CDB- I'm going for a fuller RC review later on, just want to see how your is coming.

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- I do have more, but my kid is bugging me to go to the bookstore, so it'll have to be later.

[PeregrineV]

@Pere, here's my recap of the lynch, the nightkill, and what's going on today. ::deep breath::

EP is dead, he was town, probably at least one player on that wagon is scum and I'm betting Rag.
ReaperCharlie is dead, he was town, I tend to suspect he was killed more for general town goodness than a particular pushed case though might reappraise that after a few more flips.
I am wondering why you're not voting Rag.

Anything else?

Ok, the more.

Reads on all remaining living players, and what actions or words helped to develop that read.

The better question is, why are you voting Rag? You used "probably" and "betting" to pick Rag out of the lineup. Can you give a case I can get behind before asking me to vote him?

[PeregrineV]

Also, once dana flips we get that much more info out of him than if he were left alive. Conversely, if EP flips, we get next to nothing, and scummy-dana is still alive, whether or not he's actually SCUM (which I believe he is). Consider that in your calculations of who to lynch, ooba.

You have a point, but I see things from the opposite. If he flips town, I think MoS and ooba should be looked into tomorrow. I know it is probably to late for wagons on them and out of dana and EP I will vote dana. Honestly I get the same feel from EP as I did last game.

Looking into the ReaperCharlie NK. First suspect would be MoS, since RC was voting him, but that seems like a frame job. So, looking into it more, would like Ant to elaborate on this statement about further examination of MoS and ooba today, becuase it hasn't happened yet.

[PeregrineV]

@ooba- Can you walk me through how you went from here (Reinforced here and here) to here?

@Magua- Mine are the same as yours for now. As I keep reading and playing, it'll most likely change.

@Rag- Any luck with this?

Most of the other people in the game are null, with one or two raising some minor suspicions that I intend to look further into so as to form a solid opinion.

[PeregrineV]

@ooba- Can you walk me through how you went from here (Reinforced here and here) to here?

I scumhunt and think about any game with regard to scum teams and who can be possible scum with other people. It usually is random on D1 without seeing a single flip. However a second re-read post any flip helps tremendously.
Case in point: A game where I was attacked for a total 180 in reads from D1 to D2 after flips.

I actually get the flip part.
It's just that your scum-town list is almost inverted from mine. Since I don't claim to be the greatest mafia player, that's not a bad thing, but it just bugs me and makes me want to get more information from you. Also, two of your "town" reads think you might be scum. The fact they do so and are still on the town side of your list also seems....unusual.

[PeregrineV]

Also, once dana flips we get that much more info out of him than if he were left alive. Conversely,

if EP flips

, we get next to nothing, and scummy-dana is still alive, whether or not he's actually SCUM (which I believe he is). Consider that in your calculations of who to lynch, ooba.

You have a point, but I see things from the opposite. If

he flips town

, I think MoS and ooba should be looked into tomorrow. I know it is probably to late for wagons on them and out of dana and EP I will vote dana. Honestly I get the same feel from EP as I did last game.

Looking into the ReaperCharlie NK. First suspect would be MoS, since RC was voting him, but that seems like a frame job. So, looking into it more, would like Ant to elaborate on this statement about further examination of MoS and ooba today, becuase it hasn't happened yet.

...what? How can Ant examine me and ooba based on dana flipping town when dana is still alive?

I read it as he was talking about EP (who flipped town) (bolded above).

[PeregrineV]

PerigrineV killed that chance. To many people were V/LA and he dragged RC along with his wagon swing. =/

For some reason I can't fathom, this statement bothers me. I mean, it does, then it doesn't, but then it does again.

[PeregrineV]

@Magua - a page from Benmage there, eh?

You just wait until I use my govern D4.

@Peregrine:

Vote someone.

@MOD: VOTE COUNT PLEASE

My vote is already on mikeburnfire.

[PeregrineV]

I don't like the way Ant switches back and forth between voting MoS and defending MoS. And MoS is sort of returning the favor, but neither is doing it directly. However, some of his posts seems like statments town would make. So still up in the air on him, but reading all his stuff and watching closely.
Mike gets much of his scumminess from his ooba defense, who I am having a hard time figuring out.

[PeregrineV]

Snipped because forum won't let m enest more than five quotes.

I read it as him talking about dana (based on the part bolded above). Regardless, Ant is still alive and can tell us what he meant by that statement, so I'm not really sure why we're arguing about it. Moreover, I'm not sure why Ant hasn't chimed in to correct one of us yet.

Dana is female, and EP is male.
But yes, Ant should respond.

[PeregrineV]

Looking into the ReaperCharlie NK. First suspect would be MoS, since RC was voting him, but that seems like a frame job. So, looking into it more, would like Ant to elaborate on this statement about further examination of MoS and ooba today, becuase it hasn't happened yet.

Yup. Spent a lot of time looking up past ooba games during the night. When I was trying to make a case on him, it ended up looking like it was just personal quirks that were bothering me. As for MoS, I was looking through his posts, and was kinda redirected from them to Magua.

PerigrineV killed that chance. To many people were V/LA and he dragged RC along with his wagon swing. =/

For some reason I can't fathom, this statement bothers me. I mean, it does, then it doesn't, but then it does again.

How so? With you and RC, dana was down 2 people. I know I am not the best at trying to convince people to make quick last minute decisions on changing who they are voting =/

Just because I didn't think Dana was scum doesn't mean that I "killed the chance" to lynch him. There were 11 other players voting people, and I have no control over RC- only my own vote. So, it sounds accusatory, like I did have control over it.

I don't like the way Ant switches back and forth between voting MoS and defending MoS. And MoS is sort of returning the favor, but neither is doing it directly.

Hmm???
iirc MoS has gone from scum to null for me throughout this game and I don't recall ever "defending" him.

Let me see what I can dig up.

Dana is female, and EP is male.

No, Dana is male as well according to his profile. I believe RC yelled at me a bit for mixing that up.

You are correct, I was wrong. For some reason early in the day while arguing with him, I got the impression he was a she.

Also, once dana flips we get that much more info out of him than if he were left alive. Conversely, if EP flips, we get next to nothing, and scummy-dana is still alive, whether or not he's actually SCUM (which I believe he is). Consider that in your calculations of who to lynch, ooba.

You have a point, but I see things from the opposite. If he flips town, I think MoS and ooba should be looked into tomorrow. I know it is probably to late for wagons on them and out of dana and EP I will vote dana. Honestly I get the same feel from EP as I did last game.

The he is EP. Near the end of day MoS and ooba were my top two scum picks. Opposite part was on how EP was going to flip.

Oh hey! My opinion of RC NK would lead me to MoS/MBF/Magua. I have a hunch that I need to go and cross check on this so I'll just post this for now.

And
VOTE: Magua
before I forget again.

So your going to look into MoS and MBF?

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.
Vote: Ragnarokio

@Rag- if you are town, please hop in here and play, or replace out

@CDB- You seemed to have a lot to say day 1, and said you had more, but would like to hear more.

@MBF- Giving a reason for your vote helps to encourage trust for you among other players, as well as foster discussion.

Totally unofficial-
Ragnarokio (4): Thor665, danakillsu, Magua, PeregrineV
danakillsu (2): Mastermind of Sin, ooba
Magua (2): Ant_to_the_max, mikeburnfire
Ant_to_the_max (1): Ragnarokio
Mastermind of Sin (1): Empking


Not Voting (1) ChannelDelibird

Notes:
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Deadline is Thursday June 2nd at 11:59 PM (EST)

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- Oh yeah.
Happy Birthday

(Saw your movie. Umm..the comic was better.)

[PeregrineV]

As I wait for on more report to run:
Now:
Ragnarokio (4):

Thor665

,

danakillsu

,

Magua

, PeregrineV
danakillsu (2): Mastermind of Sin, ooba
Magua (2): Ant_to_the_max, mikeburnfire
Ant_to_the_max (1): Ragnarokio
Mastermind of Sin (1): Empking


Not Voting (1) ChannelDelibird

Then:
Energetic Penguin (7):

Magua

,

Thor665

, Ragnarokio, ooba, ChannelDelibird,

danakillsu

, Ant_to_the_max
danakillsu (2): mikeburnfire, Mastermind of Sin,
Mastermind of Sin (2): PeregrineV, ReaperCharlie
ReaperCharlie (1): MarchHare

Notes:
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is Thursday May 12 at 11:59 PM (EST)

Energetic Penguin: Lester Patel (Vanilla Townie) Lynched Day 1.

[PeregrineV]

@MBF- I'm OK with that, but he needs to get in here or replace out or get lynched.

UNVOTE: Rag
VOTE: EmpKing

@EmpKing
Can you share with us your current town, scum and null reads, and possibly why?

[PeregrineV]

@ooba- I did develop a town read on dana day one base don attitude, reponses and activity. But the activity level seems to have dropped since then.

@EmpKing- thanks. Can we have more of you?

Unvote.
Vote: Dana
FoS: Rag
Yes, with four days, I would be willing to switch to Rag if no one better shows.

Re: Magua scumminess- Somehow, when I play games this size, the scum usually falls into three spots in my reads. One will read scummy, one will be nullish, and the last will almost always seem town to me until they flip mafia. I orginally had Thor in that spot but fully accept that it could be Magua.

[PeregrineV]

EBWOP:

Unvote.
Vote: Dana


FoS: Rag

...with four days left....

[PeregrineV]

@MoS- I would want to do a complete Magua re-read and discuss prior to that pending the results of the re-read. And while I'll do that, it most likely won't be Monday, my last day off of work for the weekend. Will shoot for Tuesday.

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV - Why the dana vote? Who's case are you agreeing with on her being scummy?

Well, if you look at Dana day1 and Dana day2, do you see a difference? We have more information to work with (all of day1), yet his activity has decreased in both quality and quantity. I feel like it could be because with 2 dead town, scum doesn't have to work as hard? No hard evidence yet.

Also, who's case are you going with on Rag as well?

Rag I was hoping to motivate (if town) into participating more. It seems like a fine line between town apathy/active lurker/minimilist posting. I know he

can

do more, I'm just trying to figure out why he is not.

Does anyone else feel like he is being a bit opportunistic here? For the most part, his focus this day has been elsewhere, but now seems to be sliding onto the two popular wagons near the end here.

So, you don't think there is maybe a reason why the wagons are there?

MoS/MBF look a bit more on the townish side to me from the change from D1 to D2. I don't think either of them are a viable lynch today.

Did you notice Dana's shift D1 to D2? Any comments on it?

I am torn on Ragnarokio. I am trying to skim through and find the cases on her and evaluate if my townish read on her D1 was wrong or not.
I am thinking that Magua/Peregrine are the best two for a lynch today (somewhat leaning towards Peregrine.)

Have to disagree with both of these choices for now.

Just because I didn't think Dana was scum doesn't mean that I "killed the chance" to lynch him. There were 11 other players voting people, and I have no control over RC- only my own vote. So, it sounds accusatory, like I did have control over it.

This bothers me. It is like he is trying to avoid being connected to the issue. He had his vote on dana for 8 days, but thought he was "scummy, but probably town". Also, note that he only switched off dana, they day of the deadline to start a non-existent wagon. Not pro-town here.

I have the same connection as all other players.

I don't like the way Ant switches back and forth between voting MoS and defending MoS. And MoS is sort of returning the favor, but neither is doing it directly.

Hmm???
iirc MoS has gone from scum to null for me throughout this game and I don't recall ever "defending" him.

Let me see what I can dig up.

Anything?

Still on the to-do list. I'm not going to half-ass it, but it's something that is pecking at the back of my mind. I'll be sure to share, whatever the results.

[PeregrineV]

I am thinking that Magua/Peregrine are the best two for a lynch today (somewhat leaning towards Peregrine.)

Why is Peregrine a better lynch when you are voting me, and there are three votes on me compared to 0 on Peregrine?

As someone who spent time yesterday yelling at people who were on solo wagons nearing deadline, I'm sure you can appreciate Ant's vote staying on you over Peregrine, who currently has 0 votes.

...or are you so desperate to not get lynched that you'd encourage others to abandon the best practices you advocated yesterday?

@Ant- Um, regarding my post above this one, here is one example.

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV - Why the dana vote? Who's case are you agreeing with on her being scummy?

Well, if you look at Dana day1 and Dana day2, do you see a difference? We have more information to work with (all of day1), yet his activity has decreased in both quality and quantity. I feel like it could be because with 2 dead town, scum doesn't have to work as hard? No hard evidence yet.

How do you see a decrease in quantity and quality as compared to the rest of the players? I'm not seeing that at all. Also, assuming there was one, that's a pretty lame argument for a couple of reasons. With 2 dead town, scum would be working harder, since there would be a greater likelihood of them getting lynched. But even if you assume you're right about that....let's say we had 2 dead scum already somehow. I can pretty easily see you saying that I'm scum trying to fly under the radar now that his scumbuddies are dead by posting as little as possible. I don't think what you're saying here is remotely accepted site-wide.

So you feel your level of play this day is better or the same as day1?
I have seen a decrease in some people, and I've been hitting them up for more gameplay.
I feel the oppposite. I have less material day 1 as town, so that's my hardest day to play. As the game goes on, there is more data to use.
For example- what do you think of Thor? What do you think of Magua? What do you think of Mikeburnfire?

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.
Vote:Mastermind of Sin

[PeregrineV]

@Ant- you do realize that the cop being "left alive" looks bad for you. Your results from last night.

And for now

Vote:Rag

I remember some sort of connection between the two from competing wagons day1. And since ooba and Magua were both town, I think their interactions will provide a lot of fuel.

@Mod: OP, oboe s/b ooba.

[PeregrineV]

No, why should I?

[PeregrineV]

No, why should I?

Why'd you ask for his night results?

Why woulnd't I? If he's alive he "investigated". That gives us a "confirmed" town, right?

Since he lived through the night to do it, and some top "suspects" such as ooba and Magua were killed instead.

[PeregrineV]

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Empking is not a threat to the town (assuming there is no GF)
Pere is the lynch for today?
After the flip I thought a vig would know who to shoot >__________>

Yeah, you're right.
Weird how I missed it between the laughter, asking about me as the lynch, and chastising the vig.

P-edit: @Ant-look forward to it.

[PeregrineV]

Dana voting:
ReaperCharlie-Ragnarokio-EmpKing-PeregrineV-mikeburnfire-EP
mikeburnfire-Ragnarokio-Magua

ReaperCharlie voting:
Ant-Thor-Dana-Thor-MoS-Dana-MoS-Magua-mikeburnfire-Dana-MoS

CDB voting:
EP-PeregrineV
No votes

ooba voting:
CDB-mikeburnfire-Ant-Thor-Ant-EP-ReaperCharlie-EP
Dana-Ant-Dana-MoS

Magua voting:
Ant-EP
ooba-Rag-Ant-Dana-MoS-Dana

More later.

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- You're welcome

I always put out the raw data for town use. In this case, it's just the order of voting for those players.
(My) conclusions will be after I get all of the players patterns up, if any can be made.
Otherwise, it will be for use alongside other information.

Still looking for MoS to come clean about his "role", since he, too lived through the night.

[PeregrineV]

MoS, Ant, and Thor are high on my scum radar right now.

I don't trust MoS at all. Not only does he take the cop claim at face value, but after Ooba linked Ant and MoS together as a possible scumteam, Ooba ends up dead instead of the two claimed power roles. I want to hear his role and how he is supposedly confirmed right now. Looking over his posts, I see that he spent the majority of Day 1 attacking Dana, which would normally be a point in his favor. However, MoS is a crafty bastard, and would be smart enough to buss his scumbuddy like that. His most recent post highlighting his own suspicions of dana right before the lynch don't help either.

Ant defended dana from MoS Here. Worth noting. If your cop claim is true, then I'm willing to bet that you visited Peregrene last night. Am I correct?

I hadn't seriously considered Thor until the dana flip. He voted Dana early jokingly and stays on him for a long time without reason. Then, when the wagons started to heat up, he unvoted and went after Rag and Penguin. Day 2 he went after Rag, then randomly dana for no reason, THEN says that he thinks dana is strongly town (even though he is voting him). He keeps saying that his vote on dana is "Gut", but then he says Magua's gut vote is so suspicious that he votes Magua. However, he then vote dana again, who didn't have many votes. Dana seemed to get really defensive when RC linked him to Thor, which might explain why he was killed. And Dana gets really upset when I don't answer his Thor question. Overall, there's a lot to answer for here.

Waiting for a MoS response to earlier "claim".
Saw exactly two MoS posts where he "attacks" Dana. Can you link to more?
Ant claimed cop Chuck, and no one counterclaimed name or role (MoS claimed something).
Ant checked EmpKing (town).

[PeregrineV]

MoS: I've seen this only once before, and it was a scum ability. Can you provide the details (paraphrased of course) of what your one-shot ability allows you to do?

[PeregrineV]

I choose one person and get a QT with them for the rest of the game.

And can you describe your though processes behind choosing the claimed cop, especially as he becomes a target for the rest of the game. Why not someone else?

Also, your impressions of Ant based on your QT interactions.

Is there a role-name for your role?

[PeregrineV]

Today was Reading Day at my Uni...so read I did.

danakillsu

: Leaning scum
#119 Twists MarchHare's words around
#217 Another twisting of words
#258 You know...what is your def on one-liners? I honestly get the feeling that you are trying to call people out on things to divert attention away from yourself.

Channeldelibird

: Leaning town
Pretty much all of his posts give a positive vib

PerigrineV

: Null
Tries to come off as edgy/witty
Although, he does unvote Thor at L-1 which imo is a townie thing,
but all other non-sheeping cases made by him are crap so far.

Mastermind of Sin

: Null
#93 Almost 100 pages in and has to get his "random" vote in.
In quotes because I believe he is keeping his cards close.
I guess we are not worth his time

Thor665

: Town
I am not afraid to say it. He has a point. He has been pulling his weight around here.
And I am getting the same vib from him as before.

mikeburnfire

: Leaning town (for the most part...I think :S)
I hopped on his wagon to get a respons, and I got one.
I liked it, and thought it was town.
But...that is it from him >_>
He is town or very slick scum.

Ragnarokio

: Gut says town
From her posts, she reminds me of someone else.
Her confusion with the Thor/Hair argument is null imo

Energetic Penguin

: Leaning town
Looks town enough to me so far.

ReaperCharlie

: Null...leaning town
A lot of his posts can be considered fluff, but they do get descussion going in the right direction.
Although, I will say this. Why I echoed Thor's question to him is because I thought I came across something that poked me. I wanted to bring it up sooner, but there was the impending daykill and I couldn't think of a good way to throw it out there without causing a scene. Obviously I was wrong about something. (who knew!?)

ooba

: Null
Not much to go on imo

animorpherv1

: Null
Again, not much to go on.
Although has posted elsewhere and not here.

MarchHare

: Town
Same feeling here as I get with Thor.
Short and sweat, but I feel the motivation behind his posts.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: danakillsu

whew, glad I got that out of the way.
*drinks juice*

VOTE: Pere

Addressing the point that main characters could be scum:
Yes, I know ooba and RC brought up that Harry Potter mafia were the main characters were mafia, but look at the flips of this game. All town VTs so far have been good minor characters in the show while the mafia flip was definitely one of the bad guys in the show.

These are the 4 people that I would be willing to lynch today. Obviously Pere is the best to go with (imo) because I feel like he has the strongest connection to dana and overall scummy actions from D1.

Channeldelibird-
PeregrineV-
mikeburnfire-
Ragnarokio

Channeldelibird- used to be "leaning town"
PeregrineV-used to be "null"
mikeburnfire-used to be "leaning town"
Ragnarokio-used to be "gut says town"

Ant's unwilling to lynch list:
Thor
MoS
EmpKing

Can you elaborate on how you came up with your lists?

Also, your impressions from MoS from your QT together, as well as why you think he selected you, please.

[PeregrineV]

Energetic Penguin

(7):

Magua

, Thor665, Ragnarokio,

ooba

, ChannelDelibird,

danakillsu

, Ant_to_the_max

danakillsu

(2): mikeburnfire, Mastermind of Sin,
Mastermind of Sin (2):

PeregrineV

,

ReaperCharlie

ReaperCharlie

(1): MarchHare

danakillsu

(6): Thor665, Ragnarokio, Ant_to_the_max, Mastermind of Sin, Empking, mikeburnfire

Magua

(1):

danakillsu

Mastermind of Sin (3):

Magua, PeregrineV, ooba

Not Voting: ChannelDelibird

Starting point for me from both end-of day lynches to explore possibilities.

[PeregrineV]

If Ant is town, then he is really cop, and EmpKing is really showing "no threat".
If MoS is town also, and Ant is town and correct, that leaves Thor, mbf, Rag and CDB, half of which are scum.

So, if Thor & mbf are town (conventional wisdom), that leaves Rag and CDB as scum.

While I'm not sure of this, I can do this for now while I think about it some more:

Vote: CDB

Seemed to follow the same pattern as Dana. High activity day1 to establish townieness, then day2 nothing (but only one prod all game).

[PeregrineV]

@mbf- Ant did already, but since I don't know if you want confirmation from him or or just the info, I'll let him respond.

Not sure on the flavor claim, for the reason EmpKing says, but if it matters in terms of winning, I'm for it.

[PeregrineV]

@Rag- see you are here, what do you think of recent developments? Why did Ant the cop live?

[PeregrineV]

You're looking for CDB confirmation? He checks in weekly.
Are you still needing Ant to respond, or do you just need his "targets"?

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- Did you somewhere point out the simplest explanation? 3 mafia and a one-shot town vig that missed?

[PeregrineV]

No offense to your neighbor, but Ant a)could have been lying about being a cop or investigating ooba or b)hit a babyface.

Otherwise, I'm to believe that a SK/vig decided not to kill anyone night1, or decided to kill ReaperCharlie along with the Mafia, or that the doc protected the SK/vig night1 kill, or the sk/vig role was roleblocked, or the sk/vig neglected to send in a target, or the sk/vig hit a bulletproof, or the Sk/bulletproof targeted someone else but was re-directed, or....

See what I mean?

And that's assuming assassinated =mafia and kill=non-mafia. If not, it opens other possiblities.

[PeregrineV]

Guys, I killed ReaperCharlie and Magua. I'm sorry. I'm the vig, and I'm terrible at it. I was planning to kill MoS, but he had just claimed to be a role, so I hesitated and killed Magua instead. The interactions between dana and Magua were always "null tell" and "no read", so I thought I could get a freebie there. I killed RC because he's RC. The mafia didn't kill anybody Night 1, which is why I'm suspicious of all this 'doctor' talk. The mafia would be the most likely to suspect a doc because a doc might have stopped them.

Rag isn't scum. She's my neighbor. She's always been. I have always eyed her suspiciously, and I can see why you guys might suspect her, but trust me- she's far more open in the private thread. She's been analyzing each and every player. When I told her to post it, she was worried that she would 'clutter the thread' with her 'scattered opinions'. If you could see what I see, you'd understand. She's playing like a townie.

I have some other small pieces of information that I cannot share right now. As it stands, Rag and EmpKing look town to me. Ant maybe. Thor, Peregrene and CD are wild cards, and MoS needs to die.

Don't mean to be a stickler here MBF, but why did you assassinate on night1 and kill on night2?

Energetic Penguin: Lester Patel (Vanilla Townie) Lynched Day 1.
ReaperCharlie: "Big" Mike Tucker(Vanilla Townie) assassinated Night 1.
danakillsu: Stavros Demetrios (Mafia Roleblocker) Lynched Day 2
Magua: General Beckman (Vanilla Townie), assassinated Night 2
oboe: Anna Wu (Vanilla Townie), killed Night 2

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- Did you somewhere point out the simplest explanation? 3 mafia and a one-shot town vig that missed?

Peregrine: Why would a one-shot town vig kill confirmed town Ooba?

Guys, I killed ReaperCharlie and Magua. I'm sorry. I'm the vig, and I'm terrible at it. I was planning to kill MoS, but he had just claimed to be a role, so I hesitated and killed Magua instead. The interactions between dana and Magua were always "null tell" and "no read", so I thought I could get a freebie there. I killed RC because he's RC. The mafia didn't kill anybody Night 1, which is why I'm suspicious of all this 'doctor' talk. The mafia would be the most likely to suspect a doc because a doc might have stopped them.

Rag isn't scum. She's my neighbor. She's always been. I have always eyed her suspiciously, and I can see why you guys might suspect her, but trust me- she's far more open in the private thread. She's been analyzing each and every player. When I told her to post it, she was worried that she would 'clutter the thread' with her 'scattered opinions'. If you could see what I see, you'd understand. She's playing like a townie.

I have some other small pieces of information that I cannot share right now. As it stands, Rag and EmpKing look town to me. Ant maybe. Thor, Peregrene and CD are wild cards, and MoS needs to die.

[PeregrineV]

Let's wrap our heads around this. Please correct me if I'm wrong:

Channeldelibird
Ant_to_the_max- claims cop, investigates ooba n1 and EmpKing n2, now and forever neighbors with MoS as of n2
PerigrineV-town
Mastermind of Sin*- claims "Neighborizer", and made Ant a neighbor n2
Thor665
mikeburnfire- claims "town vig" and "neighbor" with Rag. Claims n1 kill of ReaperCharlie and n2 kill of Magua. Claims Rag appears much townier in QT.
Ragnarokio- "neighbor" to MBF
Empking- Investigated as town by Ant (who also asks the vig to kill EmpKing)

P-edit: so Thor and Emp, you are saying you think the doc protected against the n1 mafia kill?

[PeregrineV]

Role claims too:
Channeldelibird
Ant_to_the_max- claims Chuck Bartowski
PerigrineV
Mastermind of Sin
Thor665
mikeburnfire- claims Sarah Walker
Ragnarokio
Empking

[PeregrineV]

Geez, right now I'm a little pissed at MBF. I've seen worst judgement, but c'mon, really?

@MBF- please get Rag to share all reads on remaining players, else I call bullshit. Neighbors does not equal masons. Also as a neighbor/vig claim, you have almost all of the abilities of scum (QT & NK ability), so your still a suspect in my eyes.

@Ant-Mos neighbors- Crowded street, eh neighbors? So far it seeems Ant locates town then requests they die, and MBF kills them. Of course, it's all coincidence.

@Thor-

@Anyone who thinks Maua was a Vig kill - if you *really* think the Vig killed likely scum Magua and likely scum Reaper Charlie...let me know. I want to lynch you for being worthless. RC was fairly obv. town on Day 1 and Magua at least had a solid argument for being town because he was playing the worst game ever if he was scum and was also a counter wagon to scum!

So does this mean MBF is actually mafia?

[PeregrineV]

@Empking

Wht do you think makes more sense balance wise;

A SK with a neighbor of a town so he can...influence town somewhat?
or
Scum with a neighborhood of a Vig so they can...influence a second kill?
or
Vig and town so they can...not trust each other and maybe target kills better?

The most overpowered one I see is Scum having an in with the Vig, not Vig having an in with town. What am I missing?

How do you define overpowered?

We have a Cop - That's one of the most power roles.
I believe we have a one-shot neighbourizer.
We have something that blocked a kill.
A Vig plus town neighbour is clearly overpowered.

No possibility that MBF/Rag is the last of the scumteam using this as their claim?

[PeregrineV]

Right now suspecting Rag/CDB heavily, but also suspecting everyone else.

[PeregrineV]

So, now MBF is SK and not vig? How was that determined?
And Rag is the town neighbor to the SK?
Or Rag is the mafia neighbor to the SK?

@Dramonic-Using your logic, since I'm town, that would leave you and Thor as mafia, which Thor denies. See how that works?

And you actually popped in and voted the guy voting you that hasn't claimed a PR. While convienent for you, it doesn't change the CDB vibes you inherited.

What are your thoughts based on how the players have played, in addition to their claims?

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, you're pretty much the only player left that can get MBF up to L-1. Even if you disagree with it its still worth it to stop the game from stalling.

Fine, but no hammers. There's a lot to figure out, and I don't want MBF making a post someone disagrees with and they lynch him right away.

Unvote.
Vote: MBF

@MBF-Please claim all relevant knowledge you have.

[PeregrineV]

to stop a wagon on me

There was a total of 0 votes on you when he made that post. EmpKing had just unvoted the single vote on you.

[PeregrineV]

I have some quick free time now to post in my games!

Hmmm so he is at L-1 right now? Interesting...so that leaves me, MoS, and Rag to hammer right? Bah, gibe me a bit to actually wake up and think about this

Would rather have no hammer right now and have lots of discussion first. But yes, please read and let us know what you think.

[PeregrineV]

@MBF- I see your MoS arguement. What about the BP arguement?

Considering his aim so far, I doubt the scum has a specific interest in offing him.
He's a SK, what's to say he's not BP? That way he lives, and oh joy, mafia can't go "HE'S BP!" because that... would be outing themselves.
It also explains the lack of a scum kill night 1.
And the town usually doesn't want to lynch their vig, so it wouldn't be attracting votes if he played it a bit better

[PeregrineV]

Rag and I are town, I know. Empking is likely town, but godfather is possible. Ant is probably town too. This leaves MoS, dram, Thor, and Perigrine. Now I will comb dana's posts.

Thor: Dana persists on Thor being town all game.
Peregrene: Dana and Thor argued a lot in a way that seems genuine.
MoS: Interactions vary, but never get too serious.
CDB: Dana only commented on CDB once, and that was when Ooba

linked Dana and CDB together as scum

Overall, I think lynching dramonic is the best choice. We won't get a lot of information regardless of the flip, but I do believe there is scum here. MoS or Thor is likely the third scummate, but we can figure that out tomorrow (if I can't kill correctly)

I suspect MoS because neighborizer along with neighbors means scum somewhere (and you are insisting Rag is town).
Thor always seems town to me, but less so this game, for whatever reason. However, one of my townreads seems to always turn up scum.
I suspected CDB becasue of day2, and like someone else already said, Dramonic hasn't done much to make that different.
And I'm still suspecting EmpKing, because with a town BP vig neighbor and town neighbor and cop, there is bound to be a babyface among the mafia.

Of course, the only thing I don't like about narrowing down to these players is it requires faith that the others are town. I don't have that faith yet, but since this post most closesly matches my own thoughts, I will go along with MBF=town for now, and Rag=town, and Ant=town.

[PeregrineV]

Bulletproof vigilante neighbor...

Holy crudsticks dude - why would you reveal Rag's role like that?
...
...
...whut?

More importantly - why did you ever hint there was more to your role if that was the more? Seriously, what was your mental concept of how that was a good idea, I want to hear it.

Yeah, if this is all on the town side, scum's probably got something worse.

@MBF- you do realize that town is really powered up, and that is what makes your claim ( and thus your thoughts about Rag) hard to believe?

[PeregrineV]

Sorry, thought I fixed this a few posts ago.

Unvote.
Vote:Dramonic

[PeregrineV]

@Pere - when did you think you started voting Dram? Link me to the post you intended to vote him in, please.

Here: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3121806

It should have been right after this sentence.

I suspected CDB becasue of day2, and like someone else already said, Dramonic hasn't done much to make that different.

[PeregrineV]

If MBF is Vig he would benefit town by not shooting tonight. If he has to shoot I would tend to point towards Pere, but would strongly advise against it unless Dram flips scum.

Ant: CXhange it to killing Peregrine.

HA!
Pere dies tonight. I might have just figured this out. Brb with what I mean

Why is everybody encouraging the vig to kill me?

Why did Ant want to vig EmpKing then change it?

Where did the EmpKing hate for me come from?
Why did Emp's thread activity triple with town confirmation by Ant?

@Ant- I'd love to hear how you have it figured out. Everyone else seems stumped or is scum.

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- What are you using as your source for MoS being town? The neighborizer role on mafiascum is 6-2(?) a scum role.

[PeregrineV]

@Dramonic- You have mentioned everyone in the game more than once and MoS only once. Why is that? Why do you think he is town?

[PeregrineV]

Website search function using keyword neighborizer. I put a question mark since I didn't also look up neighbourizer.

[PeregrineV]

@Dramonic- Yet you still have Rag as town, and MoS is town (but make no other mention of him ever), and Ant is town (as the nieghborizer target) and think MBF is SK so that makes it "balanced"?

Let's see, likelihood contest:
SK neighbor+ town neighbor
town target +town neighborizer

or

town neighbor + town neighbor
town target + scum neighborizer

Gonna go with the second choice.

@EmpKing- the 2 are town versions. Another town version called Masonizer seems to exist, but I didn't include that.

[PeregrineV]

@Dramonic- They can't cross confirm, really, because they are neighbors. Unless the mod switches them to Masons, their only confirmation comes from themselves and whatever the other players (us) gives them.
And a babyface mafia would easily provide balance IF all those town roles exist.

[PeregrineV]

Really? Cop + Doc + Vig Neighbour + Neighbour is ridiculously powerful. Godfather + Roleblocker + Neighbourizer don't really come close to balancing it.

Preview: I think he means investigation immune godfather.

Yes to investigation immune.

So, what you are implying is Cop+ Doc +Vig Neighbour + Neighborizer is less powerful than GF +RB + neighbor?
Can you elaborate on what you feel the town set-up might be, because it appears you are merely steering us away from a possiblity without presenting others.

Do you think the neighborizer MoS is town? or Scum?
Is Neighbor MBF town vig or scum vig or SK?
Does MBF alignment affect Rag alignment?
Is Neighbor Rag town or scum?

[PeregrineV]

@Rag and Dramonic- so far, you are saying every PR is town, yet town is overpowered if every PR is town. So, I'm asking how you can expect to keep both opinions.

@Thor- Sure, since you claimed PR I'll go for the might mass-claim. Want to still wait for MBF?

P-edit: I'm up for it, fwiw.

[PeregrineV]

I'm pretty sure I called both you and Thor scum in my first post, so that's at least 1 PR who's not town.

I also have been spending all my posts saying that MBF is a SK, which PROBABLY means I don't think he's a town PR.
Christ, you're way too good at this whole reading thing.

So now you think:

3 Scum (Dana, Thor, PereV)

1 Un-NKable SK Neighbour (MBF)

1 Neighbour+PR (Rag)
1 Neighbourizer (MoS)
1 Cop (Ant)
Townies (ooba,Magua,ReaperCharlie,EmpKing, Dramonic)

So, in your version of balance, what does the scum team consist of? You know, to make it even remotely balanced?

[PeregrineV]

Makes sense in one way to split vig power and even make them neighbors. Reduces chance of SK MBF is Rag confirms.

[PeregrineV]

We're waiting for Rag, correct?

[PeregrineV]

Sure, 100% vanilla town:
Director Langston Graham

MoS next.

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- I would attribute the lack of a night1 kill to three things off the top of my head.

1- Duplicate target by vig/mafia- This has been ruled out by kill flavor, apparently.
2- Mafia forgot/inactive- Dana was active and playing, so I doubt that no kill was went.
3- Doc protection- Luckiest reason, but was hoping one of the docs would claim doc and who they protected. That would give us a town player (the protected one).

Since neither doctor is claiming doc, then it has to be another reason.

[PeregrineV]

So the question is do we believe the neighbor vigs, the claimed cop, and/or the neighborizor?

Neighbor vigs
Why they could be town: Symmetry. Giving town a vig power but splitting it among two players to weaken/strengthen it. Make them neighbors to add confusion to roles and reduce the double vig power. No counterclaim for night2 (if the "real" vig killed ooba, they could claim and out the fake vigs as the mafia).
Why they could be scum: Their claim gives them everything the remaining scum players have- a QT and a NK.

Claimed cop
Why they could be town: Standard PR for town, pretty common and would seem to match name flavor, IMO.
Why they could be scum: All targets are dead, except EmpKing who is unconfirmed. Also, "neighbored" by MoS. This could be faked, obviously if Ant & MoS are scum. Ant could also fake it with lack of real cop counterclaim.

Neighborizor
Why they could be town: Role could give town another chance to confirm a town player if the neighborizor chooses correctly. Not a strong role otherwise, not doesn;t overpwer the town.
Why they could be scum: Step up from goon, so adds a little more power to mafia to counterbalance twin vigs. Generally the role is mostly given to mafia team.

P-edit: I'll address other posts separately if needed.

[PeregrineV]

@EmpKing- yes. Both Ellie and Awesome are doctors in the show. If Chuck is a cop (knowledge), it makes even more sense for either doc to doc (protection).

@Thor- Reck took over, so the RC kill flavor was from Mothrax I think.

[PeregrineV]

@Emp - explain what further? There should be a pro-town Day Vig or else my role makes very little sense.

But what is your role?

Also, I don't think I understand you Rag accusation there... I mean, I really don't understand how you came to that conclusion and how it makes Rag scummy. I might just be being stupid, could you clue me in?

Firstly,
* There are no unclaimed kills.
* The mafia did kill that night.
* Rag claimed the only kill

Therefore
* Rag claimed the mafia kill.

Ergo
* Rag is mafia.

Pondering this.

How do you know for sure the mafia killed that night?
Vig flavor of RC kill matches vig flavor of Magua kill, esp since no one counterclaimed that vig killed ooba. How would you explain that?

P-edit: No, but they are doctors=save lives.

[PeregrineV]

@EmpKing- Kind of like a ninja doctor. He will never be spotted protecting someone?

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- If we have a town day-vig, why do you think they wouldn't claim it?

[PeregrineV]

@Rag- Does your role have a name?

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- The thought crossed my mind. If your not a doc, or are a doc that only protects from dayvigs, that sounds retarded and I wouldn't believe you.
Can you explain why your non-standard role hinges in any way shape or form on the existence of a vigilante that can kill during the day?

Unvote.
Vote: MoS

[PeregrineV]

@EmpKing- dichotomy in your posting:
Smart, insightful, makes me go hmmmmm, good point.

@Emp - explain what further? There should be a pro-town Day Vig or else my role makes very little sense.

But what is your role?

Also, I don't think I understand you Rag accusation there... I mean, I really don't understand how you came to that conclusion and how it makes Rag scummy. I might just be being stupid, could you clue me in?

Firstly,
* There are no unclaimed kills.
* The mafia did kill that night.
* Rag claimed the only kill

Therefore
* Rag claimed the mafia kill.

Ergo
* Rag is mafia.

makes me go "forealz?"

The first thing to come to mind is that mafia has the ability through Rag on odd nights to change their kill flavour to assasinated.

Also, can you comment on:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3132464

[PeregrineV]

If I was a doc that could protect from Dayvigs why would that make the Dayvig pro-town? It would be the opposite, yes?
Why MoS?

So it would seem. Which brings up the question why you are so sure there is such a thing, and why you are inssiting on it before full claiming.

MoS because I believe Rag-MBF town for now:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3132464

[PeregrineV]

@Rag - I will. But not prior till 9pm EST tonight. I'm still hoping the Vig wises up and claims, because between my power and his power we can deal with the you/mbf "vigs" and be looking very good going into tomorrow.

Does this mean you don't believe the vig claims?

Also @Rag- don't quote QT- Capital offense (http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=17331)
You can, however, paraphrase....

[PeregrineV]

If I was a doc that could protect from Dayvigs why would that make the Dayvig pro-town? It would be the opposite, yes?
Why MoS?

So it would seem. Which brings up the question why you are so sure there is such a thing, and why you are inssiting on it before full claiming.

I'm sure...because I'm not a Daycop? I actually don't understand your point here at all. Could you restate it please?

Why is it so important to out another PR, esp. a pro-town PR, and esp., how is it important to your (pro-town) role?
(you mentioned how you & dayvig could help win the game (but I'm hoping you mean for town), but it doesn't say why it's important)

[PeregrineV]

@MBF- Did you learn she was the night1 vig before or after night1?

[PeregrineV]

2. I'm 95% sure Rag is Mafia. If he is then I think MBF, MOS and Ant are town.

What if Rag is town. Then who can be mafia?

[PeregrineV]

@MBF- Can you link to the post where you did that?

@Thor-Can you link to where MBF thinks your obvscum?

@EmpKing- lol- so Ant is town no matter what, and MBF and MOS hinge on Rag? Can you help me wxplain how you arrived at this cinclusion?
And if Rag is mafia, what is Thor? What am I? And what is Dram?

[PeregrineV]

@MBF- I found it.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p3109748

At what point did you claim to Rag your ability? Did she know your target (Magua) before you sent it in, or only day3? What wer eher suggestions, if any, if you discussed it beforehand?

[PeregrineV]

@EmpKing- they've been neighbors the whole game, since the start.

@Thor- You are/were voting MBF, yet unvoted Dram, who MBF just voted for. ????

[PeregrineV]

@Thor-
It meant "What's up with that?"

Thor votes MBF
MBF votes Dram
Thor unvotes Dram

What's up with that?

[PeregrineV]

At what point did you claim to Rag your ability? Did she know your target (Magua) before you sent it in, or only day3? What wer eher suggestions, if any, if you discussed it beforehand?

I didn't. When I started asking for a restricted vigilante, Rag put 2 and 2 together and figured out my role. After she told me her role, she apologized for all the missteps she had made and offered to full claim if I thought it was best. Taking full credit for her RC kill was entirely my idea.

Did she know your target (Magua) before you sent it in, or only day3? What were her suggestions, if any, if you discussed it beforehand?

[PeregrineV]

Can you paraphrase all mentions of ooba day2 by Rag?

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- was hoping you were doc, although I think you are overthinking your title. I think the Day Doc refers to the fact that you submit your target during the day (ie, before the lynch), but the target is protected from NK actions. I read about the concept (on this site) of submitting night targets during the day phase instead of the night phase, to make players think about it a little more.
(The only reason I said daydoc awas becuase you kept looking for a dayvig )

Either way, I was hoping you were doc, and was also hoping you protected someone else besides Ant, since I was putting him in the town column. But, now at least I know he's confirmed town. And I can put you there also.

Unvote.
Vote: MoS

Other choice at this point would have to be Dramonic. EmpKing was investigated, so he gets the benefit of the doubt for now ( I think I really hate the godfather role).

Much better vote count analysis coming tomorrow from work.

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- If you only protect people during the day phase, then your less useful than a regular doc. Not only woul dyou have to pick the right dayvig tarhet, but the dayvig would have to be alive to shoot. And it would have to shoot daily. None of that has happened yet. So, Occam's Razor, you protect during the day AND night, but must select target during the day.

And, maybe you can prtoect target from the lynch? Who knows. Sounds weird, but maybe that's what your wording meant.

Because no one else claimed doc, and there was no mafia NK night1 (although I did think it was RC up until Rag confessed)

Also, looking back over early stuff. Willing to wait on MoS for now.

Unvote.
Vote: Dramonic

Vig vote: MoS or EmpKing

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- That would be weird, but maybe they do have to do that. Either way, your the town doc, so gogogo doc!

[PeregrineV]

@Yeah, stop attempting to kill me!

I think secret dayvig would be somewhat of a bastard role, and not make much sense, no matter whose side it is on.
But, just so I can be cool too

Kill: Dramonic
Dayvig: Dramonic
Murder: Dramonic
Assassinate: Dramonic
Vigkill: Dramonic
Vig: Dramonic
Eliminate: Dramonic
Shoot: Mos

[PeregrineV]

@Mod- Vote count and stuff, please?

[PeregrineV]

@MoS- Because nobody else used the word Shoot. Since I don't think any of it means anything, I changed it up.

Do you think Dramonic is a good lynch for today?

[PeregrineV]

Except the vigs have to be legit. Since nobody counterclaimed for ooba, vigs did RC and Magua, and a town doc and cop are semi-standard.
And a scum RB would make sense, what with 4 targets to block, that's a 50% chance or better night1.

So, while I still think there is a GF, your role doesn't make sense in a town context.

[PeregrineV]

I think Ant was the target, and was protected by Thor night1.

[PeregrineV]

So town cop, doc and vig sounds insane? With vig power reduced by putting it into two players hands (neighbors not masons)?

[PeregrineV]

They are even night and odd night vig. How is that more powerful than a regular vig?

[PeregrineV]

So the mod says, "Hey, I'll make a serial killer that only kills on nights 2, 4, and 6, thereby increasing the chances he will live."?

[PeregrineV]

You may be right
I may be crazy
But it just may be a lunatic your looking for

"You May Be Right"

~Billy Joel

But, I don't think so.


So who exactly are you nominating for the role of

??, Even-Night Serial Killer

?

[PeregrineV]

So now the town vigs are both serial killers? Do they share the same alignment?

[PeregrineV]

So isn't it unfair to all concerned for the town vig and the SK to have the same kill flavor (even if it is only one word)?

[PeregrineV]

Every game I've been in has. Granted, it's not that many, but still. Mafia NK is always different from other kill sources.

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- What role? I'm a chocolate villager (paraphrased).

I think a lot of people play emotionally, but once they calm down, decide to be more rational. MBF may have been on the verge of replacing, but then realized that it's better to stay and play.

Do you not think he is the even-night town vig? If not, what role do you think he has?

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- lol, sorry, not this game.
Why do you not believe you protected Ant from the night1 mafia kill?

[PeregrineV]

Why do you not believe you protected Ant from the night1 mafia kill?

Because the only way that happened is if;

1. The mafia day target and flips happen at night.
2. mothrax (un)intentionally gakked up the description of my power in the role PM.

I'd love it if Reck would come back and clarify #2 for me if I'm wrong, but I really don't see #1 happening.

Assuming an absolute that is

MUST

be one of the two, I see no reason for #1 not to be the reason.
Otherwise, a doctor that only protects against dayvigs, of which this game may or may not have?
Crappiest.Fakeclaim.Ever.

[PeregrineV]

OK, so can someone claim 0-shot dayvig so we can get on with it. I think something got lost in translation, but I'll concede you are really nothing more than a VT at this point.

Same vote, same vig target(s) for me.

[PeregrineV]

Because I'm obv. town, a drunk rat could come up with a better fake claim, and I can't be the SK probably. Why, what do you think I am?

Because I'm drunk rat SK

[PeregrineV]

Yay!, Thor's here!

@Thor- Is Dram scum or town? Is MoS scum or town? Is EmpKing scum or town?

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.
Vote: Dramonic

Vig vote: MoS or EmpKing

[PeregrineV]

Unofficial VC and stuff

dramonic (2): mikeburnfire, PeregrineV
PeregrineV (2): Ant_to_the_max, Empking
Thor665 (1): Ragnarokio

Not voting: Mastermind of Sin, Thor665, dramonic

Notes:
Ant_to_the_max has limited access until June 25th.
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch!
Deadline is in 2 days, 11 hours, 10 minutes.

[PeregrineV]

Unofficial VC and stuff

dramonic (2): mikeburnfire, PeregrineV
PeregrineV (2): Ant_to_the_max, Empking
Thor665 (1): Ragnarokio

Not voting: Mastermind of Sin, Thor665, dramonic

Notes:
Ant_to_the_max has limited access until June 25th.
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch!
Deadline is in 2 days, 11 hours, 10 minutes

.

Boy, messed that one up.

Unofficial VC and stuff

dramonic (2): mikeburnfire, PeregrineV
PeregrineV (2): Ant_to_the_max, Dramonic
Ragnarokio (1): EmpKing
Thor665 (1): Ragnarokio


Not voting: Mastermind of Sin, Thor665

Notes:
Ant_to_the_max has limited access until June 25th.
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch!
Deadline is in 2 days, 11 hours, 10 minutes.

[PeregrineV]

Guys, it would help to add your vig target also. Of course Rag is not bound to it, but at least she can see where everyone stands.

[PeregrineV]

I'm starting to feel the love guys.

Love:PeregrineV

@Thor- please send in target this day phase to not protect this night. Preferably MBF or Ant.

[PeregrineV]

scum= smarter than town
town=a bunch of dumbasses

Perhaps its better I die. If I leave a game for a day and get lynched, it might be beyond my mental capacity to comprehend.

flip= town director nobody cares because you don't see him past season 1.

[PeregrineV]

yeah town! more later.

[PeregrineV]

Any chance of the PMs and night activity being posted? MoS you did do a good job there near the end. Almost had me doubting my scum read on you. Defeinitely made me not envy Thor's position.

[PeregrineV]

Greetings

PeregrineV

, you are Director Langston Graham (Vanilla Townie)

Abilities:

none

You win when all threats to the Intersect are eliminated
Please confirm via PM with your role name.
The Thread is Here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=17331

[PeregrineV]

Yeah, I was all excited, then I got my PM, and was like, "who is this?" I didn't remember them from season 1, so had to hit the wiki...