Mini 1141 - Frogs Mafia 2 - GAME, SET, MATCH
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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mozamis wrote:
lol when i replaced scum in another game i started off by saying something like this.MrBuddyLee wrote:I read my predecessor's post history and he looks like a total douchebag and obvious scum.
Hi, I'm replacing Magnetic. I replaced in because PJ asked me to and because Shanba is totally Shibby. Let's catch us some scum.
fos BUDDYLEE
No, I didn't read at all, actually. I just checked the first post to see if I was in the right game, and to see if CrashTextDummie had also replaced in as PJ promised. I think PJ may have lied to me, or at least used weaselly legalese, but I'll stick around anyway. I also checked the little dropdown at the bottom of the page and saw my predecessor hadn't posted in this game yet, so I made a smart-ass comment to see who was paying attention. No one really noticed or at least commented on the fact that my predecessor never actually posted in this game. When I said I read his post history, I actually just checked his history outside this game to see why he got banned from the site.Truant wrote:
Did you read anything else?MrBuddyLee wrote:I read my predecessor's post history and he looks like a total douchebag and obvious scum.
Hi, I'm replacing Magnetic. I replaced in because PJ asked me to and because Shanba is totally Shibby. Let's catch us some scum.
So anyhow, I skimmed this game today and saw some mild protections and some illogical posts and some attacks on said illogical posts. And definitely some noob play--asking someone if they're the cop on the first page? Really? Kids these days.
fos mozamis omgus omgwtfsee i can throw acronyms around too.
I'll read the game more carefully tomorrow--I believe I have lots of free time to waste. Thank you, Shanba, for not making me scum. I look forward to nailing a few of these young Turks to the wall before summer dawns. Ribbit.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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Truant wrote:Yup, reliable scumtell, especially after my follow up.
Unvote
Vote: MrBuddyLeenopointinactingup wrote:MrBuddyLee wrote:I read my predecessor's post history and he looks like a total douchebag and obvious scum.
Hi, I'm replacing Magnetic. I replaced in because PJ asked me to and because Shanba is totally Shibby. Let's catch us some scum.Vote:MrBuddyLee
1> He is lying.
2> It's a reliable scum-card.
I also think the M&M are scummy buddies. Was gonna vote for meransiel had MBL didn't come in and be obv-scum.
PJ,Scott, implosion looks town.
Hey kids, what's the "reliable scumtell"? Please be very specific with your answers.Meransiel wrote:I agree that MrBuddyLee's opening post was scummy as hell
Vote: MrBunnyLee
Also, @Meransiel:Meransiel, March 18 wrote:
I found a reason or to to unvote, but not great reasons to vote someone else. Well, up to this point, now I have.implosion wrote:Meransiel, do you still fos mozamis more than other people, and if not why are you still voting her? If so, why?
Vote: scotsman12for generally just agreeing with the most popular wagon, re-enforcing that in a way that really doesn't help discussion and all-around short posts.
Were you lying when you said you had a "great reason" to change your vote from mozamis to scotsman12?Meransiel, March 20 wrote:my vote was sitting on a player I didn't think was scum anyway, so...
Vote: MrBunnyLee
What are your exact positions on those two players?dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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This is probably the best post in the game thus far. I spotted OGML's weaksauce on my third readthrough and was going to post about it when I came across kunk's good find.kunkstar7 wrote:OGML's calling calling out of moz and Meriansel reads really weak to me.
@OGML you keep trying to get everyone to look at these two players, comment on them, and even have your vote on them, but you don't express any reason to do so (even if its just gut). What gives?
Basically, OGML threw what's known as "slushy snowballs" in the vernacular. Nonspecific attacks, loosely packed, looks to town to do the dirty work to drum up evidence. Note that OGML doesn't give his own opinion on those two players, but demands specifics from others:OhGodMyLife wrote:Unvote, Vote: mozOhGodMyLife wrote:@scotmany, what are you thoughts on moz? What do you make of moz and meransiel's interactions?OhGodMyLife wrote:@blenblen, you have completely ignored moz and meransiel despite the fact that there was serious attention being paid to them by pretty much every active player. Why? Tell me what you think of each of them: scummy, or towny?OhGodMyLife wrote:doesn't this just seem really.. obvious? I mean. So obvious. Moz and meransiel. Everyone weigh in on them. Is there something funky going on here or what?vote: OGMLdialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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My predecessor hadn't posted at all. I've already said that I commented on my predecessor to see who was paying attention to the game. Clearly you aren't.Amrun wrote:I think it's called Arishem tell, when you apologize for your predecessor.
Reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallly not liking MrBuddyLee.fos: Amrun
Why are you "reaaaaaaaaaallly not liking" me? Please be specific.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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@OGML:
What made you go from:
to this:OhGodMyLife wrote:doesn't this just seem really.. obvious? I mean. So obvious. Moz and meransiel. Everyone weigh in on them. Is there something funky going on here or what?
to this:OhGodMyLife wrote:humm I think maybe moz is scum and meransiel is town but I gotta think it over when I'm not so hung over.OGML wrote:No I'm pretty sure you're town. Moz is the one I'm concerned about.
You sound disturbingly certain that Meransiel is town, when just three days ago you insinuated it was "obvious" that something was funky about both of them. Please clarify.OGML wrote:moz is defending/buddying up to you because you were taking a bunch of heat and looked like you'd possibly be lynched, and he wanted to be in the position to say "told you so" when you flipped town, or at least have you in his corner from this point on. Don't be hoodwinked.
I agree it's curious that mozamis is defending Meransiel overly stridently, but why does that mean to you that it's scum defending town?
Preview edit: and now mozamis fails to read OGML's accusation correctly. He now thinks you're scum sucking up to a townie. If you've forgotten why you found Meransiel worth defending, please go back, find it, and let us know whose attack on Meransiel was "flimsy" or "suspicious" or "unconvincing" and let us know whether or not that attack was scummy.
MBL knows when you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake. Are you afraid of tough questions?OGML wrote:MBL always thinks I'm easy pickensdialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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@Truant, this radical change of heart is disturbing:Truant wrote:VERY happy with where my vote is at (Meransiel) due to therolefishingthat just went on in 79. Yay for IIoA,defending a scum-lurker-buddy (most likely)and rolefishing within the first 4 pages of a mini theme.I don't know if this could get any easier.
Did you really decide that Meransiel was no longer super duper obvious scum? Why?Truant wrote:Yup, reliable scumtell, especially after my follow up.
Unvote
Vote: MrBuddyLeedialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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I explained why I brought it up again.mozamis wrote:buddy -in one of my previous posts i explained why someones attack on meransiel was unconvincing.
why bring it up again?
You said someone attacked Meransiel on flimsy or suspicious grounds, but you don't seem to care who that person was. If you were town, you'd care who brought it up and whether their attack was just "unconvincing" or if it was actually "suspicious". So I want to know who made the bad argument, and I want to know whether you find it suspicious or not. And by watching you explain that, I hope to better ascertain whether your defense of Meransiel is suspect or not.mozamis wrote:I can't even remember what I didnt like about the atack on Meransiel. But someone attacked meransiel on pretty flimsy grounds. I found that attack suspicious or unconvincing.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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I looked up this famed scumtell:Truant wrote:It's not a change of heart, I trust Amished's scumtell (not Arishem) 100% in this occasion.Amished wrote:I've basically come up with a scumtell that if you *criticize* who you replaced in; you're scum.
So now, Truant, please explain in detail two things:
1) Why do you trust it to be a 100% accurate scumtell? Has it been 100% accurate in the past?
2) Did I actually commit the scumtell Amished talked about? Considering that my predecessor, Magnetic, NEVER POSTED IN THIS GAME, and I intentionally commented on his play (lack thereof) to SEE if anyone was paying attention, are you really saying that this scumtell applies to me?dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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My gift to lazymod:
Truant(Mafia Bullfrog, croaked day one)
OhGodMyLife(Mafia Poison Dart Frog, touched himself day two)
mozamis(Mafia Non-lickable Toad, torn apart by gang of pelicans day three)
nopointinactingupender241
Meransiel
Tuncali
BlenBlen
Amrun
scotmany12
petroleumjelly
kunkstar7
implosion
MrBuddyLeeMagnetic
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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I was also joking about you being a weaselly lying lawyerly liar, but I suppose I should be more sensitive with those cracks. You will be a lawyer any day now, and any lying you do will be strictly by the book.petroleumjelly wrote:Obvjoke is obv.
So many scummy players, so little time. Let's summarize:
* OGML for being all fired up about this game and then making town do the heavy lifting for him
* Truant for selectively applying a scumtell that doesn't even apply in this scenario
* mozamis for thin to nonexistent scumhunting and seemingly no desire to hold the feet of his "suspects" to the fire
* Meransiel for unvoting mozamis so he could vote someone he doesn't think is scum, replaced by a terrible vote on MBL while avoiding a question about mozamis
Need to step it up:
* BlenBlen -- actively lurking, not giving much in the way of opinions/analysis
* Amrun -- speaking in cliches and generalities. Let's see a case with some teeth from you.
* nopointinactingup -- says he's got three scum nailed down, gives exactly 0.0 good reasons
* Tuncali -- lying low after an early game flub
* scotmany -- ok for pointing out inconsistencies, needs to sell his cases better and give opinions on more players
Reading carefully and posting somewhat thoughtfully:
* implosion -- illogical by itself is not a scumtell so always be sure to point out how/why you think the bad logic furthers scum goals
* kunkstar -- made a good spot on OGML. thin analysis otherwise.
* PJ -- smells like teen spiritdialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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Are you on drugs?Meransiel wrote:MrBuddyLee wrote:
* Meransiel for unvoting mozamis so he could vote someone he doesn't think is scum, replaced by a terrible vote on MBL while avoiding a question about mozamispetroleumjelly wrote:Obvjoke is obv.I am SURE scotsman is scum, you're just an easier lynch. But JUST as scummy as he is.Meransiel, Friday 4pm wrote:Vote: scotsman12for generally just agreeing with the most popular wagon, re-enforcing that in a way that really doesn't help discussion and all-around short posts.
You just said you didn't think scotsman was scum and now you say you're SURE he's scum?Meransiel, Sunday 4AM wrote:Hmm...like most people, I agree that MrBuddyLee's opening post was scummy as hell andmy vote was sitting on a player I didn't think was scum anyway, so...
Vote: MrBunnyLee
You're a goddamned train wreck. Please explain your seemingly constant contradictions. What are your exact positions on mozamis and scotsman?dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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Going to do a quick run-down of the fallout from my entrance into the game, to see if any clear patterns emerge:
* mozamis fosed me because he said something similar in a previous game as scum. Note he did not leap at the opportunity to move his vote off petroleumjelly and on to me, implying that he and pj probably aren't scum together.
* Truant asked a reasonable question, probing why I read my predecessor's posts and not anything else. Did not appear to catch the "trick" in the question, however.
* kunkstar went after mozamis for his poor logic, without moving his random vote off BlenBlen
* nopointactingup used MBL as an excuse not to vote the obvious scumpartners M&M. This is weak protection of Meransiel and mozamis by nopoint.
* Meransiel jumps on the MBL wagon citing my "opening post" (note, not referencing subsequent posts, only the "I read my predecessor's post history and he looks like a total douchebag and obvious scum."), moving vote off scotmany/mozamis. Note, Meransiel wants us to see this as a vote switch off mozamis, not off scotmany. Meransiel still wants us to think Meransiel suspects scot. Mild protection by Meransiel of mozamis/scot.
* Truant votes MBL, saying the scumtell is "reliable". Moves vote off Meransiel, who Truant was pretty positive was scum. Unusual behavior--possibly protective, possibly realized he overstepped on Meransiel.
* OGML avoids commenting on the obvious hot topic. Later admits he's gunshy of MBL. Tosses slushy snowball at mozamis instead and says "pretty sure" Meransiel is town. hmm, also note: he says "MBL always thinks I'm easy pickens" which implies I'm scum trying to set townOGML up for a fall, but he doesn't vote me. Doesn't add up.
* Amrun expresses willingness to vote MBL but wants to see a vote count. Unwillingness to move vote off mozamis implies they're less likely scumpartners.
* Truant solidifies MBL read, says 100% sure he's scum. Possible protection of the other people on the line today, mozamis/Merensiel--an irrational 100% read in this scenario hints at fear of switching to #2/#3 reads.
* scot defends MBL without quite getting the full picture--he says town can criticize predecessors, but appears to have missed the "trick" that there were no posts to criticize.
* implosion reads the situation mostly correctly, goes after Meransiel, Mozamis, OGML and Truant, who MBL is also going after.
* kunkstar finds possible scum motivatoin in Truant's selective 100% application of a scumtell. Solid play, in my opinion, building upon previous solid call-out of OGML. Votes Truant.
* petroleumjelly points out that the MBL wagon is bad but doesn't make an attempt to point out who's scummy for pushing the wagon and who's not. Pokes at Meransiel and OGML instead. Note, he's ostensibly looking for a possible link between Meransiel and Magnetic(MBL) (or possibly ender) here.
* BlenBlen lazypost, criticizes MBL wagon
* mozamis leaves vote on PJ but hints he may move the vote to MBL soon. Has a "gut feeling" about PJ's attack on Meransiel and leaves the vote on.
* Meransiel says he's SURE scotsman is scum but leaves vote on MBL who is an "easier lynch". My guess is his going for an "easy lynch" is bad use of English rather than scummy, but it's worth following up to ask why Meransiel is looking for an "easy lynch".
* More bad English/scumslip from Meransiel: "I never thought scotsman could be town."
* mozamis protects Meransiel AGAIN: "note how buddylee is tunneling for Meransiel. Not sure he seems very concerned if Meransiel is scum or not..." even as MBL is voting for OGML and attacking Truant+mozamis. Yet again, no vote on MBL from mozamis--leaves it on PJ.
mozamis is gluing himself to Meransiel, seemingly intentionally. Seems willing to leave a weak vote on PJ despite having a better suspect in mind.
Minor protection of Meransiel, lesser protection of mozamis by Truant.
Same by nopoint.
Minor association between Meransiel and scotmany. I don't see scot as top tier scummy at this point, but Meransiel is overly sure about scot's scumminess. scot is pretty sure about Meransiel's scumminess, and is trying to tie him to mozamis. PJ dove deeper into this, and Meransiel needs to respond--why is scot such obvious scum?
OGML got called out by a few players and is hiding out. BlenBlen's lurking is bad, but not as egregious as OGML's, which appears to be in response to attacks. OGML coming up with 2-3 excuses in nine posts ("Nyquil", "hung over") is scummy. It's difficult to see why town would hide in this situation.
Tuncali and BlenBlen need to post more if we're to have a fair shot at pegging their alignments. In my last game, in which we eviscerated all four scum, two of the scum lurked mercilessly and thus survived til Days 6/7. We need you guys talking, or replaced, and you should agree to those terms if you are town.
@nopointinactingup
Listen, punk. You've called me "sorry", "flailing", and called me a liar like 10 times in your three crappy posts so far this game. I would probably enjoy ad-homming the shit out of you in return, but my job is to figure out your alignment, not to humiliate you. If you're scum, keep it up. If you're town, try to make some goddamned sense.
@Truant
You also said I'm flailing. Please explain in great deal why you see my play as flailing. Do you have a problem with the specifics of my posts? As it stands, you've only commented on the first sentence I posted in the game.
Because it's funny to call someone obvious scum when they haven't posted at all yet. It's even funnier if you can trick people into knee-jerk responding that you're obvious scum for "defending your predecessor". It's even funnier if those knee-jerkers turn out to be scum in the end. *crosses fingers*nopointinactingup wrote:If his post history was what you looked into then why does he look like "obvious scum" and not "obvious cheater".dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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Shit just got real.
It's really early to say that with certainty, but there are definitely a handful of players who are playing logically, reading carefully, and appearing to try to make informed decisions. I outlined them in a recent post. Scum are capable of doing that in the short run, but they'll get caught once flips start happening and the subtle holes in their logic are pointed out.mozamis wrote:mr buddy lee, who do you think is town?
More importantly, I am looking for answers to my recent questions directed at you, Truant, Meransiel and OGML.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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mozamis wrote:oh, i dont respond to bullying btw
Actually, you didn't respond to the same questions when I asked you quite calmly:mozamis wrote:again, a bt bullying for my taste. calm it down. you will get better responses.
Please answer the questions--stalling only helps the scum if you are town.MBL, Monday 5pm wrote:Do you think petroleumjelly is scum?
What's your case on me?
Why do you think Meransiel is town?dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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I assume what you're saying is that you have several more town reads than I do at this point. That's nice. If you'd like to attack some specific analyses of mine for specific reasons, please feel free to do so. That's how we catch scum up in hurr. In particular, is anything wrong with my comments on you, Meransiel, OGML or Truant, the four people I see as scummiest right now?mozamis wrote:Check out that huge post from Buddy Lee. He pretty much fingers everyone in the joint.
Also, your persuasive technique needs work:
After reading your recent spate of posts, I had to go back to see whether you're always this awful. Found this:mozamis, to PJ wrote:this is a completely moronic post
That behavior got you lynched as scum. You've been lynched/killed D1/D2 in pretty much every game you've been in, eh?mozamis, March 10th wrote:Fucking IDIOTS. I DONT KNOW WHO IS SCUM YET. ANYONE WHO IS CERTAIN IS A DICKWAD OR SCUM.
USE YOUR FUCKING BRAINS.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16453 lynched as town, D2
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16416 serial killed N2
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16769 lynched D1 as scum
Not surprising.
This isn't a newbie game, but I'm going to treat you like a newbie/sociopath. If your goal is to persuade town that your scumreads are actually scum, insulting people is probably not the best way to go about it. Make some cogent arguments. Control your anger/frustration. Point us to some scum--scumpartners will be accepted. Use specifics, not generalities.
So I understand your case on me. I'm pointing out possible scumminess in too many players. Why's scotmany scum? You haven't provided a solitary ounce of evidence, and this isn't the random voting stage.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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Tuncali, do you understand that petroleumjelly is essentially claiming to be a vigilante, a role that is most often town? He claims to be trying to extract better behavior from this town by threatening slackers with immediate death by vigilante kill if they do not comply.
Do you have a problem with him demanding better behavior from town?
Or do you suspect that petroleumjelly is faking his vigilante claim? Or do you think he is a vigilante that is not town?
Because if you think he is a town vigilante, but you are still voting for him, then you are scum.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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That's one way to play it.Tuncali wrote:MrBuddyLee, I do not know what petroleumjelly's role may or may not be. I know only what I see from the reading of his words, and what I see does not impress me. I am not liking his trying to control what we say or do. I know what the vigilante role is, but am not in a position to try and divine what his alignment may or may not be. Do you know for certain that he is a vigilante or even further that he is a town vigilante? If you do, then please explain to the rest of us. I do not like his threats and commanding style. I have my vote and I am entitled to use it as I see fit. I certainly am not tied to the vote and if I see something that makes me change my mind I will do so, but for now my vote remains on petroleumjelly.
A common way to play it is to assume the claimed vigilante is a vigilante, and then see if they kill someone. If they don't kill, you have a good reason to pursue suspicion of them. If they kill someone, then you can decide whether the kill is pro-town or not.
The advantage to the "common" way to play is that you don't waste much time pursuing town vigs instead of pursuing scum. You will have to figure out the odds for yourself.
Take a gander at Tuncali's post history and let me know if you still have a problem with me "coaching" him. Also, why didn't my last post to mozamis bother you? There was arguably more coaching in that.Amrun wrote:Post #230 sounds a bit like coaching.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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No, this one. I coached mozamis too but that didn't seem to bother you.Amrun wrote:Did you mean this post?
Amrun, what's your read on Tuncali?MrBuddyLee wrote:This isn't a newbie game, but I'm going to treat you like a newbie/sociopath. If your goal is to persuade town that your scumreads are actually scum, insulting people is probably not the best way to go about it. Make some cogent arguments. Control your anger/frustration. Point us to some scum--scumpartners will be accepted. Use specifics, not generalities.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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Same here, which is why I checked his post history and decided to give him a chunk of advice on how to handle vig claims. Worst case scenario, I just helped a noobscum escape from a terrible blunder. Best case scenario, he has a new town tool for dealing with vig claims, and can consider moving his vote somewhere more practical.Amrun wrote:I actually have an insubstantial read on Tuncali at this point. Newbtown, so far, but how do you read someone so very green?
Basically, I'd like this game to move past the wtf phase.
Who do you guys think petroleumjelly should vig today? Maybe if we ask nicely, he'll handle it democratically.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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Actually, that's not what I was trying to accomplish with that post. I was trying to get you to quit calling people morons if you're town. Make some cases and quit avoiding questions.
MBL wrote:So I understand your case on me. I'm pointing out possible scumminess in too many players. Why's scotmany scum? You haven't provided a solitary ounce of evidence, and this isn't the random voting stage.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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Posting on a phone from a ski trip, so please forgive any sloppiness. Your portrayal of my post history here is inaccurate, amrun. First post, close to right away after replacing in, didn't have the time for a full threadskim, cracked a joke. Second post, explained circumstances of first post, said now i've had time to fullskim, saw mozamis's fos, fosed him back.Amrun wrote:Honestly, I think Truant's recent post has a point, but not so much some of his earlier posts on the matter.
How can he say he didn't read and then FOS someone in the same post...? That's more of what bothered me then the rest. Also, thanking the mod publicly for "not making him scum" rubbed me the wrong way. Plus his coaching.
That's what bothers me about MBL.
Still don't have many specifics on why i'm "dodgy" or what's wrong/misleading about my analyses thus far. Starting to feel like lazy scum are settling for this crappy case that's better than having to invent a new case on someone.
Has ogml picked up a prod? Can ogml and blenblen be replaced if they're not active real soon? Their slots have unfairly coasted through d1.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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Mozamis,
After you posted:
I posted:mozamis wrote:in fact, i would string buddy and scot up now if we could.
hopefully someone else can dig up the evidence on em, cos i cant be arsed atm
You've avoided answering this question from me several times now, and I believe a few others have asked as well.MrBuddyLee wrote:Why's scotmany scum? You haven't provided a solitary ounce of evidence, and this isn't the random voting stage.
What evidence do you have that scotmany is scum?dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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OGML expressed extreme enthusiasm for this game, and then took some heat from two players for what could best be called "inviting others to drum up suspicion on M&M without giving any analysis himself." And then OGML disappeared from the game. I didn't spot this before I made my long analysis post, but OGML made two posts in another game Wednesday and again Sunday, so clearly he replaced out of this game selectively. At this point, there are a few hypotheses you can choose between:petroleumjelly wrote:it feels rather disjointed that you left your vote on OhGodMyLife after that post.
1) He's time-limited and chose to stick with the other game because it's further along and he likes it better.
2) He didn't like the heat he was getting in this game and thus replaced out.
(1) is less likely because he was "more excited for this game than I have been for pretty much any game in ever."
(2) is more likely. It's possible he replaced out as town because he was frustrated at drawing heat and didn't want to have to debate with me/others to prove his innocence.
Regardless, at the time I made the post you didn't like, PJ, OGML fit the mold of "scum hiding out in hopes that the other smoldering wagons will build before he has to answer tough questions". Regardless of M&M's alignment and possible protections between them and others, OGML is/was still an excellent vote and he is significantly likely scum for the two reasons outlined above. The fact that he was trying to get others to shovel suspicion on M&M means that if OGML is scum, at least one of M&M is probably town and the other very well may be. If one was scum with him, he might be more likely to post, as the scumteam would have less to lose from him pulling heat. That's all independent of THEIR play thus far.
That's not at all true. My top four suspects, who I listed in a previous post, are Truant, OGML, mozamis and Meransiel. My OGML suspicions are actually the OPPOSITE of what you claim. I think he appears scummy forpj wrote:In fact, your entire Post 188 seems to read, when boiled down, as: "Everybody who agrees with me is Town: high-five! Everybody who attacked me – mozamis, Truant, nopointinactingup, and Meransiel – is scum. And anybody who even suggests that any of those four are Town or fails to vote them (because they instead voted somebody else) are scum trying to protect their partner."attackingM&M without reasons, not for defending them.
Nopoint clearly "protected" M&M by voting me for what you agree is a "terrible reason" when he thinks they're "obvious" scum. I don't think you disagree with that assessment. It's tough to say right now what nopoint is up to--he could just be town sticking to a shallow case on me that's based only on my entrance into the game and not on my suspicions. He seems to have delved into my early posts in some level of detail, which is somewhat townish, but his base assumption, that I lied, is wrong. He sounds pretty positive that I am scum distancing from my scumpartners M&M. It doesn't sound entirely believable, but it's one possible interpretation of my play thus far. Recently, he's changed his mind and decided that Meransiel is possibly town based on a mozamis post, and voted mozamis. My wagon was losing momentum at the time, and mozamis was taking heat, so I want to hear more from nopoint about his worldview right now. His play surrounding the leading wagons is opportunistic, and the vote on mozamis is for a weird reason and not the first one I'd pick as primary evidence. I don't have a firm read on this guy yet, so when you (PJ) say I'm calling him scum for attacking me, you're incorrect. I'm just pointing out his unusual play surrounding M&M, and myself, for future reference.
I said Truant is possible scum because he was VERY sure Meransiel was scum, but then switched his vote to me for what you once again call a bad reason, and expressed "100% confidence" in that bad reason. If Meransiel comes up scum, this is damning, because it means the Truant player slot used selective application of a scumtell to move his vote from Meransiel to lock it in "100%" on a townie. This is a reasonable connection to draw, once again for future reference.
mozamis refuses to answer simple questions like "what do you think of scotmany". He drew attention to ender's early vote on scotmany in an unusual post that looked like a possible sniff for a cop result. The conjunction of these two things makes my paranoid self wonder why mozamis is so sure scot is scum when he won't give us any supporting evidence. Thing is, I haven't seen scot's posts as terribly scummy, though I haven't done a careful read of the past few days I've missed, so this is just something to note for the future (and like the M&M situation below is unidirectional and doesn't necessarily mean much if moz flips scum). I made my post before you softclaimed, and said mozamis was unlikely scum with you because he didn't move his vote rapidly to me. mozamis is obviously connecting himself intentionally to Meransiel for no good reason I can tell. I don't see much town motivation for that, and it also doesn't make Meransiel scummier because it's the kind of thing scum in trouble could do to try to hitch themselves to a townie. tl;dr: if scot or Meransiel flip scum, moz looks bad for protection/buddying(Mer) and for certainty without evidence(scot)
I'll get to a Meransiel read in a moment, because you asked for it in detail and I'd like to reread to date before giving a detailed opinion.
First off, I haven't reached firm conclusions on either, as should be obvious from the presence of my vote on OGML. You seem to be implying that I should have a consistent worldview on those three, but it's not really possible considering OGML's limited post history and the early state of the game.pj wrote:It's also curious how the "protections" seem to revolve around the same players in the game. Your post almost comes to the point of just assuming mozamis and Meransiel are scum; and yet your vote is currently on OhGodMyLife for -- as far as I can tell -- pretty much focusing on mozamis and Meransiel and asking others to answer questions.
Protections are vote switches or claims of suspicion without corresponding vote switches. (Or, I suppose, vocal defenses.) Obviously, that means that the only obvious protections we can guess at at this point will involve players currently being voted or under suspicion. You can interpret scot, implosion, kunkstar and BlenBlen as having protected me, but obviously I'm not going to delve into that because I'm town. None of their reasons for defending me looked overtly like scum sucking up, so I'm leaving it alone and even giving them minor points for not opportunistically hopping onto a growing townwagon. Most of the protections I discussed involved the decision to vote MBL or stick with an existing suspicion of mozamis/Meransiel, or switch between the two of them. That's about all we've had to work with, besides possibly selective omission, but I haven't looked for that yet. As I re-review the vote counts, the only other comment-worthy voting quirks involve BlenBlen, Truant and kunkstar moving their votes amongst each other. It's possible that one or more of the votes on Truant are votes on town protecting a M and/or M scumbag. Just things to note for the future, and as I see Truant as suspect and at least kunk's voting reason solid, I don't suspect that right now. BlenBlen is another story--his vote on Truant is without evidence.
If you really want to follow up on this after my above clarifications, please provide a couple of examples or omissions that rubbed you the wrong way. I thought my applications of protection theory were consistent and fairly thorough. And I don't think I'm weighing any of them heavily today in my decisions about who's scummy and who's not. Today is more about who's using available evidence and voting power like a townie. Future days, connections come into play, so I'm leaving a roadmap.pj wrote:You also did not seem to squeeze the same information from the same actions. You seem to either analyze votes as meaning "not scum with the player they are voting" sometimes, and "there is a connection between who this player isnotvoting" other times. On the whole, it looks like you are looking for "non-connections" for the players you are likely not going to attack (like me), and connections for players youarelikely to attack.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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Why have you been defending Meransiel to the point where he appears to be wary of you? Did you get an amazing townread off him or something?
Why are you so certain that scotmany is scum? Can you please show us the evidence you found to support your suspicion?dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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My giant post contained three lines that talked about strange things Meransiel did. He voted me with a thin explanation, for a bad reason.. looked opportunistic. Since he was previously voting mozamis (or scotmany, depending on whether you look at votes or modcount) this is a mild possible protection of them. He stated unusual certainty that scotmany was scum but said he kept his vote on me because I'm the "easier lynch". And he stated that he "never thought scotmany could be town" which is probably bad English but kind of reads like he knows scotmany is scum. That's notpetroleumjelly wrote:Your giant post essentially attacked people for "protecting" mozamis and Meransiel. Despite your assertion that this does mean M&M are scum, your post nevertheless points out how they protect each other, and youconstantlyinsinuate they are scummy.insinuatingthat Meransiel is scummy.. that's pointing out very specific things that I think are either terrible play or scummy. And yes, I've drawn possible connections from other people, including mozamis, to this person who has done scummy things. That's how mafia is played, and I don't see why you have a problem with it.
Meanwhile, mozamis has consistently defended Meransiel. Some of it is somewhat reasonable (the poke at Truant, and semi- the poke at implosion) but it's seemed a little over the top. More importantly, mozamis has seemed net scummy, and I'm drawing possible connections between this possible scum and people who have adjusted their behavior surrounding him. Again, that's how mafia is played and I don't see why you have a problem with it.
Do you think nopoint is voting me for a good reason? If not, then is it reasonable to wonderYou accuse nopointinactingup of "protecting" mozamis/Meransiel because while he says they are "obvscum" on one hand, he is voting for you. But you are pretty much doing the exact same thing by voting for OhGodMyLife over mozamis / Meransiel, when your post bleeds "M&M are scum and their partner is protecting them." Yet if M&M are scum and their partners are protecting them, it seems rather preposterous to be voting for a player who is not protecting them.whyhe's voting me instead of the other people he claimed to find "scummy buddies"?
Your analogy stinks here unless you think my reason for voting OGML is as bad as nopoint's reason for voting me.
Do you or do you not think OGML's post history was scummy? Particularly the post drawing the general connection between M&M without giving analysis of his own? It'sAs a note, I also checked up on OhGodMyLife's posting, and although he did post in one game on Wednesday, it was also a single, and short, post. Contrast that with the past two weekends where he posted quite a bit. This just suggests to me that he just has more time on the weekends, and that he indeed found his other game, which has been running longer than this game, more pressing to post in. Nonetheless, he got a strike from me on principle in case he was partially ducking out, but I am not about to hang my hat on it when there is an equally (if not more) obvious and reasonable explanation.possibleit's a town post, but man, it reeks. Also, your analysis totally ignores the fact that OGML was incredibly juiced to play in this specific game.
Bull. In a prior post, I listed the three-man scumteam I saw at the time, and it was OGML-mozamis-Truant. As a townie, it's my job to continue to look at everyone else until they're cleared, with more focus on the people I find scummier. Right now, and at the time of my post, I saw a hazy cloud of scumminess surrounding {Truant, mozamis, OGML, Meransiel} with nopoint flitting around the edges of the cloud and scotmany being pulled towards the cloud more by other people's posts than by his own. I reserve the right to draw hypothetical connections aloud in hopes that whether I'm dead or alive later, those connections (or non-connections) can be used to implicate (or exonerate) scum (and town).Frankly, trying to say that "protections" don't necessitate scum while going through the trouble of pointing out four to five people who are "protecting" mozamis / Meransiel is justnot a credible response; your post oozes with the presumption that M&M are scum and that their scumpartners are protecting them.
Your take on my post(s) doesn't make a lot of sense. You seem to be implying that I have a firm opinion of Meransiel, which I don't, and I don't think my posts show evidence that I do have a firm opinion that he's scum. You seem to be saying that I should have a firmer worldview, and not make as much noise about people if the evidence contradicts or is not consistent. Or something like that. That if I'm not pretty sure Meransiel is scum, that I shouldn't be drawing possible connections between him and other people. Sorry, that's not how I play. I find evidence, try to present it honestly and relatively unbiased, and some of it turns out to be useless later. What's the harm in what I'm doing if Meransiel or mozamis come up town later? Like I said, I'm not using these connections as primary evidence of their possible guilt (unless the connection involves something inherently scummy, like clearing/suspecting someone for no reason/bad reasons), and I'd be surprised if you can find an example to the contrary.
Please assume for a moment that I am town and explain to me why my play, or specifically that post, is not good town play. I'm not seeing it.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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mozamis wrote:
I should give u more on what i was thinking i guess.Amrun wrote:But what made you have that read and then change it? What a copout.Seem to remember Scotty popping up to back up some of MBls attacks-it kinda looked like they were working in tandem maybe. But scot has since fell silent. Frankly, I just dont have enough evidence on him to think he's scum. Guess he's still in my top 5 maybe, but lynching him now would be way too premature.
scot did the following regarding MBL before you first indicated suspicion of him:
1) defended MBL from the "defend predecessor scumtell" attack
2) asked you for your case on MBL
3) asked you for specific examples of where MBL was "flailing"
scotmany never backed up any of my attacks, that I'm aware of. He voted Meransiel and has been poking at you, with a stab at nopoint. His followup questions to Meransiel have been ok. It looks like your "suspicion" of him was basically because he demanded evidence from you. Please go back and reread scot's posts and let us know why you wanted him dead last Wednesday 6pm and changed your mind today 4pm:
mozamis March 23rd 6pm wrote:in fact, i would string buddy and scot up now if we could.
hopefully someone else can dig up the evidence on em, cos i cant be arsed atm
and here's the only post scot made in between:mozamis March 28th 4pm wrote:I'm no longer convinced Scot is scum. I'm pretty sure buddy is scum. And i think Mernasiel is town.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p2898983
You seem to be making up suspicions and town reads as you go along.
Strawman. I'm not using these connections as scumtells unless you're defending or attacking people for no reasons.mozamis wrote:have to say all this protecting/defnding stuff seems balls. why shouldnt i defend people who i think are town? when did that become a scumtell?dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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This is terrible logic.PJ wrote:You also attack every single person who attacked you. And then you vote OhGodMyLife, who was (i) not attacking you, and (ii) not protecting mozamis and Meransiel. Your OhGodMyLife vote feels disjointed, and your recent posts have not convinced me otherwise.
* You're saying that because I pointed out that the cases on me were bogus, that I needed to place my vote on one of the people attacking me instead of leaving it on OGML, who wasn't attacking me?
* Because I pointed out that some of the attacks on me for bad reasons might be protections of M and/or M, that I had to move my vote off a person who was attacking instead of defending (and later 50-50ing) M and/or M?
Flapdoodle. If you want to say I was painting with an overly broad brush by drawing possible connections aloud, then whatever. It's very possible, if not likely, that one or more of M&M are scum, and scum need to be on alert that their protections of scumpartners will come back to haunt them.
What the heck are you accusing me of, anyway? Trying to get mozamistown and/or Meransieltown lynched while I keep a winning vote on my scumpartner OGML? Your case/attacks on me are really thin--I don't think you've actually taken issue with any of the evidence I've presented. If you disagree with any evidence I've posted on my top three suspects (OGML, mozamis, Truant), please specifically attack that evidence or the proportionality with which I've presented it.pj wrote:Basically, it reads to me as a more subtle attempt to keep the focus where you like while you silently keep your vote on OhGodMyLife. And in my opinion, subtle play has a great tendency to point to scum play.
And to anyone complaining about "walls of text", go read a comic book.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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As for Meransiel, my biggest problem with him is his vote inconsistency/reasoning behind them.
* voted mozamis for "gut", too clean and cautious, later said he didn't have a good reason for voting him and intended to unvote
* voted scotmany for thin posting but also omgus--scot voted Meransiel 3/16 and mostly posted about Meransiel
* voted MBL for firstpost, said he's stillSUREscot is scum but MBL is an easier lynch
* voted pj to keep him from leading/dominating the town
* says mozamis is still scummy but won't vote him in case mozamis has a role
* votes mozamis without giving updated reasoning, but gives reasoning when asked
Can't keep his story straight:Meransiel, March 20th wrote:my vote was sitting on a player(mozamis) I didn't think was scum anyway
Nitpicking, maybe, but Meransiel's take on mozamis has always been a bit tortured:Meransiel, March 25th wrote:mozamis, I was always kind of suspicious of you, to be honestMarch 20 wrote:I don't trust any of you bar 1 or 2 people, and they're not moz.March 20 wrote:Though moz did kind of saved me from a tight spot, my read on him has not improved at all, if you may ask.March 23rd wrote:I do think it's quite scummy. I'm reluctant to do anything against him though...who knows what kind of role he has that he decided to protect me so much? And who knows what will happen to me if he is lynched...
Inconsistency drives me crazy, but in my last game, a townie got lynched for a massive inconsistent suspicions flip-flop. Need to determine whether there's scum motivation behind the flip flops. Not really sure on that atm.. Also, overcertainty drives me nuts. How is Meransiel SURE scot is scum and then able to switch his vote to two other players? How is he 100% sure PJ is town?March 26 wrote:Your constant defense on me, your tunneling on MBL, your casual ignoring of accusations, your complete lack of long posts i.e. actual cases
Meransiel defending and claiming to request a prod of Magnetic is null to a minor town tell. Magnetic was town.
Saying best case scenario if PJ vigs is a dead townie and a confirmed townie--which flies in the face of the likely 1:3 to 1:4 odds of hitting scum. This is when OGML and BlenBlen are on PJ's short list. Doesn't make sense, especially considering he seemed to know his odds when talking about lynching flakers earlier. Scum motivation for making that assessment? Trying to sway PJ's vig? meh, not really seeing it. Looks more like talking out his ass.
When I suggested that PJ base his vig off a public vote, I knew there wasn't a chance in hell he'd go for that. I wanted to see who was willing to push which vigs, and a few people responded. Meransiel's request that PJ vig at L-1 appears to be a more genuine request to direct the vig, but since Meransiel's one of the more likely to go to L-1 at this point, I don't necessarily think it's a scummy request.
He was third or so on my wagon (technically 2nd but also after an FOS), and third on the recent mozamis wagon. A bit wagony. I really don't like his use of the "I don't suspect mozamis anymore" excuse to hop on my wagon when he was technically voting scot despite mod error. (He could have compared his vote on me to his vote on SURE scum scotmany, but he compared it to his vote on mozamis instead. Sketchy.)
Weird overall play, occasional flashes of town tone, minor scumhunting on scot/moz if he's town. At the moment looks about 4th or 5th scummiest to me.
@PJ:
Let's assume that your recent defenses are all correct. OGML(Apok), mozamis, Meransiel, you and I are all town. I know you haven't cleared those people, but you have been attacking me for going after them, so let's roll with this for a moment.
That leaves kunkstar, implosion, BlenBlen's replacement Darkstrike, scotmany, Truant's replacement CES, Amrun, Tuncali, nopoint.
You don't seem to think any of them are scum, nor are you questioning any of them at present. What are you up to? Because it doesn't really look like effective scumhunting from my perspective.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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PJ, who is your #2 suspect? (Or your #1 suspect if you're just poking at me for information.) You're accusing me of being distractive/subtle by pointing to OGML, mozamis and Meransiel (and Truant/nopoint by implication), so who else is scum besides me? I haven't really seen you poke at anyone else besides me since you asked mozamis a question a week ago.
@mozamis, Apok gave you four reasons he's voting you. You addressed all decently except "dodging questions". Probably because you recognize you've been dodging questions. Don't do it when you're town. Also, you have three pages of posts and have expressed no current suspicions other than on me. Who else do you suspect and why?dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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Please do--your analysis is really thin and your top two suspicions (M&M) are poorly evidenced.Amrun wrote:I wanted to do a player rn down but I won't until we finally have everyone on board.
@Tuncali, who else do you suspect besides mozamis? I don't believe you've questioned or indicated suspicion of anyone else.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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@implosion, how is this:
any different from this:implosion wrote:Regarding pj's kill - I'm strongly against democratically deciding who it's used on, actually. Voicing opinions is perfectly fine, but petroleumjelly should have the final say in who is killed. It tells us more about his alignment if he's scum, and if he's town then we have a kill being directed by town. Democratic daykilling didn't really work in the only other game I've played with daykills (Cyclic experimentation) since they allowed the mafia to have too much control over the kill. I'm definitely for a kill on either mozamis or Meransiel, however.
considering L-1 dayvigging is democratic and gives mafia significant control over the kill?implosion wrote:I'm okay with Meransiel's plan of L-1 claims/dayvigging if dayvigging is determined appropriate.
@CES, what do you think of Meransiel?dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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Haha, yeah, when I play mafia as town I usually ask people to name their favorite colors and astrological signs because I don't want to obfuscate and waffle shit up with people's suspects.mozamis wrote:Surely you must see BuddyLee's obfuscation and waffle for what is it, scum trying to confuse everyone. Note how he keeps trying to get people to name their other suspects. Deflects from him.
Hence why, for the time being I am not going to say whe else I find suspicious, until we lynch Buddy. Unless he/someone else does a really good job of persuading me he is town.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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re: Meransiel, I recently posted:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p2924070
Conclusion: not sure, guy's weird, has choppy English, and is sloppy. Part of my hesitation about Meransiel is a bad attack or two on him and some piling on by others. Examples:
Truant wrote:VERY happy with where my vote is at (Meransiel) due to the rolefishing that just went on in 79. Yay for IIoA, defending a scum-lurker-buddy (most likely) and rolefishing within the first 4 pages of a mini theme. I don't know if this could get any easier.
The rolefishing accusation looks weak, IIOA accusation is fairly weak, defending a lurkerbuddy accusation is wrong, presumptuous and weak besides. Overly certain (and Truant followed that vote up with an overly certain vote on me that's wrong, so Truant's rationale/proportionality/motives are in question.)OGML wrote:doesn't this just seem really.. obvious? I mean. So obvious. Moz and meransiel. Everyone weigh in on them. Is there something funky going on here or what?
OGML's attack is just plain bad--"hey guys, a bunch of you suspect mozamis and Meransiel so isn't it obvious they're scum together? talk more about it!" and when pressed backpedals and admits Meransiel might be town, without citing evidence. Super sketchy.
scot's attacks on Meransiel are ok, Amrun's are nonspecific, implosion's focus on the illogical and weird which is ok but not always accurate.
So yeah, Meransiel's done some scummy things and not really scumhunted a ton (suspected scot, mozamis) but I'm not sold on the overall picture. You?dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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Amrun, I've been asked for my read on Meransiel twice in the past two pages and replied twice. You're not reading the thread very carefully. Also, I asked you if you would deliver on your promise from a while back:MrBuddyLee wrote:
Please do--your analysis is really thin and your top two suspicions (M&M) are poorly evidenced.Amrun wrote:I wanted to do a player rn down but I won't until we finally have everyone on board.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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@PJ:petroleumjelly wrote:Sorry, but no. I don't want to exchange walls of text.mozamis wrote:walls of texts are just a pain in the arse to read.petroleumjelly wrote:Basically, it reads to me as a more subtle attempt to keep the focus where you like while you silently keep your vote on OhGodMyLife. And in my opinion, subtle play has a great tendency to point to scum play.mozamis wrote:As PJ said eaarlier, he is trying to keep people uneasy about Meransiel without actually sticking his own neck out.
Aww, how cute, you have a disciple.petroleumjelly wrote:Your giant post essentially attacked people for "protecting" mozamis and Meransiel. Despite your assertion that this does mean M&M are scum, your post nevertheless points out how they protect each other, and youconstantlyinsinuate they are scummy.mozamis wrote:
I think PJ answered this better than I probably will. But Buddy is definitely trying to get us to be suspicious of Meransial, without saying so explicitly.Amrun wrote:So, what is the point of saying that? Do you think he is saying Merensial is scum, mozamis?dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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What's scummy about mozamis saying being illogical isn't a bad thing? (I think he actually said it's not scummy, not that it's not a bad thing.)Apokalyptika wrote:Ok then,Vote: mozamis. Flipflopping, dodging questions, buddying/sucking up, not cool. Also saying that being illogical isn't a bad thing, and this backpedaling on scotmany.
What are one or two scummy flip-flops mozamis has made and why did you find them scummy?
Who did mozamis buddy/suck up to besides Meransiel, and what did you find scummy about his buddying/suck-ups?
Can you please explain why?Apokalyptika wrote:Meransiel is scummy
Why silly and not scummy?Apokalyptika wrote:Truant/CES is silly in his MBL vote but otherwise fairly null.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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I'm not hammering you any time soon, mozamis. But there's no way you can persuade me (or anyone else) that you're town when your one and only suspect is MBLtown.
You locked in on me carelessly for the first sentence I posted, and then have expanded upon that with:
* flinging lots of accusations
* flailing
* not being as nice as I usually am when I'm town
* pointing out that you've been a rude d-bag in other games too
* lying
* walls of text
* drawing connections
* getting people to name their other suspects
* insinuating Meransiel is scum without voting for him
* sowing confusion and paranoia
* posting bullshit to cover for an early game mistake
* not answering other people's questions
If you're town, this is called using confirmation bias. You're sure I'm scum, so you're viewing each potential piece of evidence from that perspective and fitting it into that worldview. Believe it or not, I'm town, and all of those things you claim I'm doing for nefarious, scummy reasons, I've actually done to try to ferret out who the scum are. Take a moment and see if anything/everything makes sense from the opposite perspective. And if it does, consider trying a bit harder to find scummy things in other people's play.
Our job is to figure out why you aren't very good at scumhunting--is it because you're scum or because you're careless town?dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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@kunkstar and implosion:
You guys sound clever enough. Let's move forward to a post-mozamis world for a moment.
* If mozamis comes up town, who do you think is more likely to be scum?
* If mozamis comes up scum, who do you think is more likely to be scum?
Everyone else is welcome to respond as well.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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Why are you telling me how to post? Everyone here is perfectly capable of reading that statement from their own perspective, just as we're capable of reading mozamis's intransigence and Meransiel's flightiness critically. I assume you didn't have a problem with the rest of the post, which was the relevant part. Mozamis is either town tunneling or lazy scum stuck to a single crappy case born of flapdoodle. And now that you're giving approval to tunneling D1 play, we're probably not going to get any more from him. Bravo.petroleumjelly wrote:MBL, quit your whole "I'm Town, I'm Town" in your posts. Not helping.
Ok, that's how you play. I play by getting people to make statements about townies and potential scumpartners that can be analyzed later. And I don't really care if I'm impressing you right now--you're a softclaimed vig who's spent eight days poking solely at a townie. In fact, you've only asked me one question in those eight days, while you've spent the rest of your time preaching about my poor play. Prior to that, you asked M&M a few questions on March 21st. Totally uninquisitive, while discouraging me from asking questions. Again, play the game how you like, but it's lame of you to criticize me for doing the questioning you're not doing.And I'm not impressed with your whole "whoelsedo you think is scum?" schtick you have going. I (and others) don't have to solve the entire game on Day One just to lynch somebody. When (and if) I want to diversity my attacks on different players, I will. If I attack one player exclusively, it's because I find it the most enlightening at that point. The more I talk about everybody, the more my points are diluted and lost in the smoke of battle.
You recently tried to get people to post more by threatening them with a vig. I'm getting people to post more by asking them specific, insightful questions about each other. I'm not sure why you have a problem with my technique when arguably it's going to deliver better information.
PJ, please explain why you haven't vigged mozamis yet when he's clearly hit strike 12. This is not trying to goad you into vigging him--it's me asking you what's changed since you made that post.pj, to mozamis, March 23rd wrote:That's strike one and strike two, bucko. One more strike and you're outta here.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
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Let's review the evidence that nopoint has posted.red=guesses/unsupported/false evidence,orange= so-so accusation supportable by evidence,green= decent point supported by evidence:
(Evidence--quotes from nopoint--are inside the spoiler, for those who wish to ignore "walls-o-text", mod feel free to remove spoiler tag if you see fit.)
Spoiler:
Conclusion: nopoint claimed to have found three scum right off the bat. "All the Ms". Evidence:
for MBL is scum, he's relying 90% on "lied about entrance into the game" and 10% on "distancing from M&M". Mostly red(guesses, unsupported or false) evidence.
for Meransiel is scum, he relied 100% on association with mozamis. Recently implied possible change of heart on Meransiel.
for Mozamis is scum, he relied 80% on association with Meransiel, 20% on mozamis asking Meransiel why he suspected him, after Meransiel expressed willingness to unvote moz.
Basically, nopoint had a circular case going on M&M based entirely on their interactions. "You're scum because he's scum, because you're scum, because you're both scum." No pointing to specific evidence about either of their suspicions of other players. Thin. And now that nopoint reduced his suspicion of Meransiel, 80% of his case on mozamis is gone but he's sticking to it just as strong. nopoint's current case on mozamis is now "you asked Meransiel why he suspected you, and town would never ask that!"
nopoint's case on MBL is even worse. There are at least three lies by nopoint and five unsupported guesses, along with interpretations of "flailing" and "overelaboration" and accusations of distancing from M&M by making cases on them. He makes no comments on MBL's suspicions or quality of presented evidence other than to say accusations of mozamis and Meransiel are distancing.
Terrible play, or scum? I still think Apok/OGML is sketchy (weak, cliche suspicions, sounds a little like parroting) while nopoint looks more willfully ignorant of evidence and unidimensional. Mozamis could be scum, but nopoint's presented case is weaker than his degree of conviction. Just like it was for his weaker, false and incorrect MBL case.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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The kid's been snottily poking at me all day, and in return, I've given him an honest, if brusque, assessment of his play. Hopefully the honesty does him some good, because otherwise he's destined to be lynchbait for some time. (And not just in mafia games.)Amrun wrote:that's not a call for things like "dimwit."dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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What do you think of my suspicions, nopoint? You've avoided discussing them because you've been single-focused on promulgating this misinterpretation all game.nopointinactingup wrote:10 fucking hours with 3 comments in between. Do you think this guy is at all proud of his "smart-ass" comment, do you think it was meant to "scum-hunt"? The FACT is, MrBuddyLee (didn't pay attention, didn't read the thread) himself and made a mistake in his first post, then he goes on to bullshit this reason out as an excuse. He would not have explained it that soon had he really thought his gambit could catch scum. Since then, he has continually avoided my accusation
CES is $ on this, which is ironic considering I've had him as still slightly more likely scum than you.
(5 people,not 3as nopoint says, made 6 posts in between my first post and my second. Proof inside spoiler.)
Spoiler:
@nopoint, I think you're willfully ignoring and twisting evidence at this point in an attempt to frame me up. You've gone beyond Javert, beyond Clouseau, beyond Keystone Kops at this point, perhaps to "Chief Wiggum".
I think if I showed this quote to 1000 townies:
and pointed out that my predecessor never posted in the game, that 999 townies would comprehend the joke. You are the one special snowflake, nopoint. Or better yet, you're scum, and everyone can buy me a @#$@#$ drink after the game for catching you and mozamis.MBL wrote:I read my predecessor's post history and he looks like a total douchebag and obvious scum.
I'll laugh if the first person I caught with this trick (mozamis) turns out to be scum. Regardless, nopoint, please feel free to keep chasing me around with a giant squeaky rubber mallet after the reveal.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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vote: Apokfor a combination of OGML's leading "moz+merans" questions and Apok's flimsy cut-n-paste posting thus far. Sees nopoint as scummy and silly for missing facts, sees Truant/CES as "silly" for missing facts. Didn't come across well on the "illogical" accusation of mozamis. Apok's Meransiel suspicions were almost entirely based on the presumption that moz was scum.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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I dunno, never tried it!Amrun wrote:LOL, does being a jerk generally work well for you in mafia games?
What you've seen vis-a-vis CES and me is a valid observation. We just got done playing a game together in which we nailed the last three scum in the last three lynches after being lynch-or-lose for a month. I have ideas about how to evaluate his alignment, and I imagine he ignores most of what I post and has ideas on how to read me.
@Amrun, how would you order {Truant/CES, nopoint, OGML/Apok} in order of most-to-least-scummiest, and why?
Also,
Got inside info that Meransiel's town?Amrun wrote:Oh, and I forgot to mention that MBL's "case" on Truant is conditional upon Merensial flipping scum -- which, if MBL and Truant/CES are scumbuddies, they know will not happen.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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Also, this is incorrect:
My actual case(s):Amrun wrote:MBL's "case" on Truant is conditional upon Merensial flipping scum
* I found Truant's case on Meransiel weak (IIOA, rolefishing and defending an inactive scumbuddy (Magnetic/MBL)).
* I found Truant to be overly certain of his Meransiel case ("I don't know if this could get any easier.")
* I found Truant's case on me terrible and in ignorance of the facts
* I found Truant overly certain of his case on me ("100% certain of scumtell in this situation")
I said that IF Truant comes up scum or IF Meransiel comes up scum, then it is worth considering WHY Truant suddenly switched from one "certain" case to another. But my Truant case was not in any way conditional upon Meransiel flipping scum.
Your play is sloppy, Amrun. You notice some good things, but you need to be more rigorous in your analyses or you will be seen as scum omitting data selectively to help you push bad cases.dialing in mildly protown reads since 2006-
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