Time Travel Mafia (Game Over)

[Doombunny9]

/confirm

I read the rules and understand them. I also second Tragedy's idea. The town, as a whole, should choose who to nominate/lynch to avoid scum trickery. Other then that, the discussion phase should be played out as if this were a typical game.

[Doombunny9]

Question: Does any of this really even matter anymore. I'm pretty sure everyone knows by now that there are crazy lynch and night mechanics so there's no need to keep talking about it and going off on tangents. I understand that it may be confusing to some but after three pages, we should be having some discussion about things other than mechanics. So as of right now I'm going to declare this a RQS to (hopefully) get the ball rolling:

@Everyone-What is your opinion of policy lynches and Lynch all Lurkers/Lynch all Liars in particular?
Have you played with any of the people in this game before?
How active are you?

As for me, I only support a policy lynch if there are no better lynches to go off of. I also only follow Lynch all Lurkers if there is other evidence to support them being scum but I am a heavy beleiver in Lynch all Liars since town rarely have a good reason to lie. I have played with Chrono, RC, smar, GW, and Exe before and I try to post three times a day spread out every day.

And one more thing: This shouldn't need to be mentioned but any killing roles should kill and when docs see a dead power role they should go back in time and protect them for an insta-clear.

[Doombunny9]

Kcdaspot's "joke" is anti-town any way you toss it; it's rolefishing and no real doctor would do it, confirming he's not the doctor for scum if there is one. I don't think town would have done such a thing.

Joking=scum? What is this I don't even...

Might just be scum trying to get attention away from themselves?

Huh? How was I trying to get discussion off of myself.

Kdad's OMGUS, however, is noted.

But he said he thought Amrun was town...

I still think that its still too soon for me to label anyone as scum or town yet but that will probably soon change.

[Doombunny9]

I don't think town would have done such a thing.

=/=

That particular vote could be face value or it could be scum motivated.

Anyway, Ghost does bring up a good point about kcda and Exe. @kcda-Care to explain why you think Exe is scum?

[Doombunny9]

ISO on EXE:

1: AMRUN IS SCUM LOLRVSLOL
2: LOL @KCDA AMRUN IS STILL SCUM.
3 and 4: fluff and fluff
5: questions and fluff
6: KCDA IS SCUM.

do you see the progression here? because i don't.

Its still hasn't been that long since we've seen good discussion so you could say that there's no progression from a lot of people. What makes Exe so special?

I just quoted you all his posts.

In order.

So yeah.

Those look like posts to me! What's your point? All I see is "lololol gusy, look at RotN he's obv scum... But I'm not gonna make a case on him I'm just going to make it LOOK like I'm scumhunting"

As for Amrun vs. kcda; I don't really like Amrun's case as its fairly weak. Amrun also seems to be trying to appease both crowds with statements like these: "I am forced to consider the idea that kcda just didn't think about it, esp with his more recent posts." and "At present, that joke was still the shadiest thing to happen all game and I'll stick with my FoS on himM" which strike me as just someone who wants to try and push a kcda lynch but will back down if he needs to.

[Doombunny9]

DB9: how do you feel about GW?

I'm getting pro-town vibes from Ghost right now. He seems to be trying to help the town out. The only issue I would have is that I wish he would post more than one or two sentences per post. What he says is good but he doesn't say enough.

Doombunny:

Why would I push for someone's lynch based solely off of one post?

I wanted to note clearly that that particular post of kcdaspot's was scummy.

If, by the end of the day, he has earned enough townpoints to overweigh that scummy post, he won't be scummy overall to me.

I understand that but you said that as of right now, it was the scummiest thing to have happen and that you FoS him. I understand that its still early for more solid cases but the case you currently have on kcda is weak and you set it up in such a way where you could easily back off from it. I get that by the end of the day kcda probably won't be your top suspect (unless he keeps doing scummy thing of course) but I'm talking about right now.

Also, is kcda the only person you find scummy right now? If not, who else are you suspecting and why?

[Doombunny9]

This is a joke clearly based on an ongoing game, so I can't directly say how I feel about that part, but what I can say is why the hell does Ranger ask for us to "get on with the game" when he contributes nothing that could possible move the game forward?
This single post is massively scummy, and combined with the fact that he barely has posted, I'd say we caught scum #1.

Pssst. Grey, do something like this next time you call someone scummy. I have to actually agree with this point now that I see it.

2. Amrun, do you still think Kcd is the scummiest person?

Dude, I totally just got flashbacks to when she JUST ANSWERED THIS. Trippy.

kcda is also rising on my scum list. A lot of his posts are considerably fluffy and he appears to be trying to create more noise by spreading his posts out rather than just whole ideas (Protip: This isn't Twitter or a chatroom. Feel free to combine posts.). The post on GW is also crap and I feel that he's just trying to buddy up with Amrun so he'll get on better terms with her.

GW, nothing else has happened. And I didn't ignore the game, I posted about what I thought of Ranger. Nice job misrepping.

And other than that? You've basically been cruising your way through these last few pages.

Also, upon rereading I saw this:

I still think there's something fishy in Amrun/Kcda and would like to see more discussion on that/between them.

Who wants to guess how much smar said about them prior to this question question. That's right! A whole line of text!

[Doombunny9]

Shutting down tactic discussion for a discussion-starter. only purpose this serves is limiting tactic

Erm, where exactly was I trying to stop tactic discussion fully? Tactic and mechanic discussion is fine, just as long as there's enough gameplay discussion and scumhunting to go along with it. At that point in the game people were doing 95% mechanic discussion and 5% scumhunting which is why I tried to stimulate more game related discussion.

The case on Mist is also poor since as you stated, there would be no scum motivation to do that and it seems perfectly normal to me anyway.

Why is everyone ignoring Ranger? I don't understand.

Mostly because there's nothing new to talk about methinks. I've already posted my stance on him (null-leaning scum ever since your reasoning) but until he posts again, there's not going to be anything new for me to say.

[Doombunny9]

So tell me what would you expect to provide more 'potentially usefull'-content:

1.
- What is your opinion of policy lynches and Lynch all Lurkers/Lynch all Liars in particular?
- Have you played with any of the people in this game before?
- How active are you?

or

2.
What is more usefull:
- voting in such a fashion that timetravel can`t interfere with the votes(scum-proof)
- or so that we can (confirming liars/bringing back confirmed innocents)

They both provide useful content, just in different ways which is why I said both types are fine, just as long as it doesn't get in the way of scumhunting. We can have both of these types of discussion going on at the same time. Using number two as the majority of discussion, how would you expect to catch scum?

Kcda vs GreyICE looks TvT

When did this happen? Or did you mean Amrun vs. kcda? Anyway, when you get back from your V/LA I would like to see more about why you think the people you said are town/scum.

[Doombunny9]

I don't think the questions that Doombunny asked are in any way helpful to finding scum, and thus I see no reason to answer them. That's my general feeling on RQS. I recognize that this feeling isn't terribly common or popular, but it does not reflect on my alignment. In several games I have read, I have seen refusing to answer the questions taken as a scum tell. I see no evidence that this is accurate. I can't cite any personal meta here, as I have yet to complete any games on the site since the practice of RQS became common.

My questions were not meant to catch scum, they were meant to get discussion started that would catch scum.

You claim not to act on lynch-all-lurkers alone, (avoiding to make more scum-slips after already having made one, isn`t a policy, it`s a scumtell).
So why are you, someone who doesn`t believe in going after lurkers, interressted in how passive someone has to be to be considered a lurker?

I don't really understand what you're asking here, could you rephrase it? I don't recall talking about how passive someone has to be to be a lurker in this game.

if we`re to asume these questions we`re not intended to out yourself though, how would these questions lead to 'hunting-grounds' faster than the question that`s actually related to this game.

While the question that's related to the game is well, related to the game, it doesn't really help to bring discussion into the game. As for why a RQS brings people into scumhunting, well, I'm not really sure as I'm not an expert on the subject but from games I've seen, it basically leads to the same effect a RVS does (Which would be somewhat hard to do due to the voting mechanics)

@Ghost-I can see the confusion but look over my post again. In the first part I was referring to the mechanics that everyone has looked over and (hopefully) understood whereas in the second part, I see nothing wrong with it. I said we should have had discussion about things other than mechanics which is what I was alking about before.

If I were to send in my top picks right now they would be:
1. Kcda
2. Amrun
3. Smar

[Doombunny9]

Why me AND kcdaspot, doombunny? That seems inconsistent with your earlier questioning. You asked me questions (fine), got my answer, and then was basically like, "Okay, I get that."

I got as far with you as I was going to without turning it into a back and forth. I still dislike your reasoning for kcda although you have improved recently which is why you're #2 rather than 1. And yes, it may be true that you and kcda aren't scum together but I still have reads that put one of you there. I have NEVER said you are both scum, just that you are both scummy. My list wasn't about who I thought was the scumteam, it was about who the most scummy people are.

[Doombunny9]

What about the reasoning don't you like? Why is back and forth bad?

I don't think you really understand what a back and forth is. Its when two people just keep repeating the same points over and over in an arguement without getting anywhere. In this case, I can keep questioning you about Kcda but you'd just keep going on about how there was nothing more scummy going on at the time. There's not many good questions I can think of right now regarding this that couldn't be answered with "It was the most scummy post at the time"

What is the point of FoSing two separate people you don't think are scum together?

If I were to only be FoSing and focusing on one, the other would basically get a free pass. Considering how neither of you are more clear than the other, this is a bad idea.

If you don't like my reasoning on kcdaspot being scum, why did you agree with mine and proceed to effectively FoS kcdaspot yourself?

Present your unique reasoning on kcdaspot scum, please.

My reasoning for thinking kcda is scum (as already stated) is that he seems to be buddying up to you, has a lot of fluff posts in comparison to his other posts, seems to just be creating noise be spreading his posts out rather than just all at once, and that his reasoning for a good portion of his cases are weak and unsubstantial. The reasoning that I didn't like from yours was that you called him your top scumread for making a joke which i) i disagree with and ii) was apperantly the best you could come up with for a good portion into the day.

[Doombunny9]

I'm releasing my whole list, and I encourage others to do the same. Now, if people don't want to based on silly political views that "townreads should be hidden" or whatever, then, okay, I'm not going to push on that too hard. I don't want to get into a political debate over townreads. Let's just make a truce that if someone doesn't want to give out their townreads, I won't get pissy at them, but, in turn, they can't get pissy when I release my full list. If someone has a problem with this, they need to speak up.

Fair enough although rather than picking and choosing who goes where exactly since some people are very close, I'm just going to clump people into groups:

Scummy: My top three from before
Null-scummy: Mist (Lurks and doesn't post much when she does. Doesn't post opinions on people and doesn't add much), ROTN (Reasons already stated)
Null: Trow, Chrono, Grey
Null-Town: Tragedy, GW
Town: Exe, RC

@Mist- Can we have your list please? As just stated, you haven't provided any opinions on players at all today. Your last three posts didn't even mention anybody, just talked about votes. In fact, only TWO posts of your involved any actual scumhunting at all.

[Doombunny9]

Note this requires a doc with a timemachine (with all time travelers being 'some kind of hider' even if they have nothing else, this is quite a powerfull role, thus a big assumption)
Posting this in the 'end of mechanics-discussion'-post isn`t really helping you

Have you even been reading my posts? For the

Last

time: Mechanic discussion is fine, just as long as it doesn't get in the way of scumhunting. I have never said that mechanic discussion should stop, only mechanic discussion that everyone understands.

I'm not going to repeat that again.

Also, My "How active are you" question was meant to get a feeling of how active various people would be so I could get a feeling of how well the activity levels would be like.

[Doombunny9]

The quote came from me and at the time, I was under the impression that everyone had a time machine of some strength. Anyway, if there is a doc with a time machine, he should still be going back to revive dead townies.

[Doombunny9]

Well Grey has been juping around topics which I'm unsure what to make of at the moment. I also don't like how grey just threw out the possibility of scum v. scum because, even though its unlikely, its still 100% possible as he stated, while it does take good players to pull of properly, that doesn't mean no one else can try. Throwing out any possibilities is anti-town at least.

On the other hand, grey's posting here has came off with "pro-town" vibes as it looks like he's trying to help out and I don't see why scum would post some of his arguements unless it was a scum v. scum which I why I'm still unsure of what to think about this.

[Doombunny9]

@Grey- For the most part I can agree with you on this, the point I was trying to make is that town should never 100% assume that something is untrue unless there is proof that there isn't. Yes, it is a good idea to treat something as it most likely is but never to say that it is the absolute truth.

So, doombunny, changing your stance now? When I asked you if you thought both kcda ad I were scum, you said no, but you thought one of us was scum. Now, it's "100%" possible we're both scum?

Is it not possible that you two aren't scum together? I said I don't think that you two are scum together, not that you two can't. For the time being, I'm going to treat the two of you as if at least one of you is town but I'm not just going to just throw out the possibility. Reading comprehension=Good.

Also I have a question for you: Earlier you asked me: "What is the point of FoSing two separate people you don't think are scum together?", yet upon rereading, other people have done the same thing and put you and kcda together. Why didn't you question them?

Grey's posts are still giving me mixed feelings.

...

Did you really state that I 'implied' something was true, when I said 'it was true?'

Do you know the meaning of the word 'imply' RedCoyote? Does it mean something besides 'I want to paint this person as scummy?'

Uh... Why does this matter again? Why didn't you respond to any of it rather than that part?

And what was wrong with the discussions that were going on at the time? You claim you thought the discussions of mechanics were important. There was already discussion about people's motivations going on. How would the discussions started by those questions be better than the discussions that were going on? Again, I don't think asking the RQS questions was inherently scummy, just useless. Its your posts since then that have made me suspicious.

The people who were talking about peoples motivations were a select few and even then, mechanic discussion was still a big part of their posts. I wanted to see a majority of scumhunting with only a side topic of mechanic discussion rather than the other way around. Also, the motivation discussion was weak such as "OMG you didn't reed teh rules :O" and while that's ok considering how it was still early, it wouldn't progress much at the rate everyone was going at.

[Doombunny9]

And how was the RQS any better? Perhaps it could have sparked discussion, but why did you choose to introduce an RQS at that point rather than contributing to the discussions that were already ongoing. I disagree with your characterization of the motivation discussion at that point, but even if that's the way you saw it, wouldn't that be more useful than the answers to questions that have no actual bearing on alignment?

It probably would be... For the people actively participating in it. As for the rest of everyone who talked about mechanics and barely anything else, I feel as if they'd be stuck out of the discussion until another opportunity arose (Which I tried to provide)

trag i read earlier you had me low on the scum list..

and now i'm top scum?

i don't see a progression so...

I just read Tragedy in iso, she never said this. Where the heck did you pull "low on the scum list" from?

[Doombunny9]

Well it would appear that Chrono knows how to pick popular wagons without picking the too obvious ones (Kcda/Amrun) but can't come up with reasoning for any of them. Good job.

I'm liking Grey's posts less and less especially now since he's making decisions for the entire town that I personally, don't agree with and then assuming that they must be true. At least provide some reasoning if you want people to follow you (I know he did later but he should have done it from the start damnit). Also, as other people have (somewhat) pointed out, he's not actively scumhunting and seems to be more "passive" scumhunting (For lack of a better word). He's not trying to scumhunt and catch scummy things but rather let other people ask questions for him and then make opinions based on them (Without even explaining half the time). Whether its just lazy-town or scum don't know for sure but with each post I'm thinking he's getting scummier and scummier.

[Doombunny9]

I'm with Grey when he talks about smar. She managed to fit all the people that others find scummy into her list without providing any new information for any of them. This seems way too opportunistic to me.

Since I've comepletely forgotten about it until RC reminded me... Grey, feel like answering my question I asked in post whatever (Not going to go back and check since RC quoted it for you)

@Chrono- You said that your top four scumpicks are Ranger, Smar, Me,and EXE. Would you mind providing cases other than "I've got a bad feeling"

[Doombunny9]

What question? I'm serious. I have no idea, and I'm mostly reading RC posts to figure out how close to the 'scum' line he is today. I've yet to see him as town though, which could be biasing me. If it's something hiding in a wallpost, it's probably because it was totally worthless.

In post 285 you were talking to RC about why people were obv town etc. etc. In the next post, RC follows up by going against your points with his "implying" post. The post after that, you only responded to something trivial--why he used the word imply. Other than that, you ignored the post and what me and RC were wondering was why you ignored it.

[Doombunny9]

Oh, it was all nonsense. Half of it was just saying that I 'implied' stuff I flat out stated I believed.

What about the other half? I find it odd that you'd just flat out ignore those parts of his post.

I still don't like Kcda's posts. Half of who he thinks are town/scum is all just "gut" and while that's fine, it shouldn't be the majority of his reads as he almost never posts why people are scum/town because of what they've done. He just seems to be placing people in whatever category suits him best and giving "gut" as an excuse when he can't think of anything better.

@Kcda- If you were to completely ignore your gut reads and pick out two people you thought were scum, who would you pick and why?

[Doombunny9]

What parts do you think need answering? Can you rephrase them into actual questions?

-">implying I didn't just do this for you"= Not sure

precisely

what RC is saying since I'm too lazy to look at context right now but why did you try to leech off of RC's case for why Kcda is town?
-">implying we didn't already discuss this" = Why did you try to restart the "Chrono is town" case when it was already discussed?
-">implying I base my scumhunting on "who could be partners with who" on D1 of a closed setup when there have been no flips" = Should be fairly obvious: Why did you assume that RC based his D1 reads off of who possible partners are rather than whos acting scummy, especially since no one flipped yet?

In fact, his last post seems like a lot of noise generation. The entire accusation of Kcd doesn't sound like "Kcd = scum," but rather "Kcd = useless," and he never actually makes any argument that suggests that Kcd's actions are scum-like. I'd put him as the most likely 3rd scum.

I'm sorry for assuming that you can make conclusions on why something is scummy yourself rather than having to spell it out. If you were to read Kcda in iso he puts an oddly large amount of people as scum or town based on gut. The reasoning for doing this is just like anything else-Calling people scum to bring focus onto them and possibly a mislynch and calling people town to buddy up to them. I feel he's just using "gut reads" as an excuse for not being able to find any large reasoning for them or as just lazyscum. He also creates noise by doing this since he's just throwing out reads with no weight and even more so by splitting up his posts into many tinier posts. As for why this is scummy, you should know since you called me out for the exact same thing.

Also, since feel I've gotten enough information to make a decision and since we're out of the holidays so no ones going to have to take too long catching up, I'll

Vote: Lynch

[Doombunny9]

- What? I want to lynch Chrono. I have for pages and pages.

I can see where I may have caused my confusion. You asked RC why he thought Chrono was town, RC said he already discussed this. What we want to know is why you tried to bring up something that was already discussed.

- RC didn't seem to even consider if any of the partnerships he suggested made any sense. That's pretty strange, to say the least.

I don't recall that he ever suggested any partnerships. He only suggested that 'X is scummy because of Y'. I reiterate, why would you try to plug together people as being in a relationship before there are any flips?

DB9:

BULLSHIT.

once or twice i put gut reason down on my reads. other times i HAD reason.

WAY TO MISREP.

Let's see... We have Trow, Amrun, Exe (Somewhat), and a few other reads at various points in the game which you didn't really explain (Whether or not they're because of gut or not, it still seems the same as just arbitrarily throwing people in categories as lazyscum/Scum that can't find any strong evidence)). I may have over-exaggerated a bit but I thought that was fairly obvious that you didn't literally have half your people as just gut. Eh, I blame the internets. While in most games I've played in most people have one or two strong gut reads across the whole game, you seem to have 3 (or more) in just one day which seems like a lot by comparison.

This is the scum's favorite tool though. It's MUCH safer to point out something that might be interpreted as suspicious, and then follow up on OTHERS' interpretations of it, rather than calling it suspicious from the get-go.

Yes, I'll be sure to explain why lurking is scummy every time someone does it

In all seriousness, I did say that I didn't like his posts (which is just on of my ways of saying they're scummy) but I'll be sure to be more explicit to avoid confusion.

[Doombunny9]

Are you suggesting that the scum are on different teams Doombunny?

No I am not. I think that for whatever reason you're missing my point. Let's say hypothetically its day 1 and there are two people you think are scum. These two people are unlikely to be scum together. What do you do?

More buddying language from DB9.

I don't see it.

Top three in order:

1. Kcda
2. Smar
3. Grey

(Chrono potentially may be in here if he continues with his tradition of avoiding scumhunting like the plague. The only reason he's not is because I haven't seen enough of him to tell for sure)

Grey is still arguing about what I consider to be the least important aspect of RC's post *sigh*

greyice is now town incarnate.

Cool story bro. Feel like backing it up? I don't see anything that signals "Town incarnate" in the posts in between your last one and this one.

[Doombunny9]

@GW- Yes, me and RC, can you tell me what's wrong with this?

[Doombunny9]

Congrats GW, you know how to go in circles. Yes, both me and RC were wondering about that (See RC's post #12 where he says "Yeah, it was kind of weird that he just dodged the entire thing. ") Now could you tell me how this signifies buddying (Don't try too hard, I mean, God forbid you'll have to actually

explain

yourself this time).

[Doombunny9]

Don't like how Zinger says "Ignore everyone RotN said". He just seems to be trying to hope that people have a clean slate with him rather than actually doing anything to make him look pro-town.

Another funny thing I noticed:

In post 402 Exe says

This is the scum's favorite tool though. It's MUCH safer to point out something that might be interpreted as suspicious, and then follow up on OTHERS' interpretations of it, rather than calling it suspicious from the get-go.

And calls me out on it. Yet when GW does the same thing in posts 429 and 436, he ignores it completely. Care to explain?

@Kcda- Care to answer my question on why Grey is "town incarnate"? Also, why don't you like Amrun anymore?

[Doombunny9]

1. I have a town read on GW.
2. You're mudslinging.
3. Oh wait, that's all I wanted to say.

1. Yeah, because people who are pro-town NEVER do anything scummy and even if they did, it should be completely ignored because there's absolutely no way they can be scum! Good reasoning there.
2. Erm, how exactly? Because I'm saying you're only picking out the things you want to see? And this isn't legit because...?

This post was terribad. I'm going to have to rethink my stance on you.

in any case.... I may have to claim.... the nature of this game kind of warrants it...

You're allowed one post if you're one of the two candidates for a lynch. There's no reason to do it now unless it's that important.

Also @Kcda- Question ignoring FTW?

[Doombunny9]

We did not do the same thing. I left nothing to the imagination. I specifically said buddying language. No one knew what it was, no one made guesses to what it was, no one made interpretations of it. I then pointed out what I saw as the buddying language. There was nothing more to say on the matter. You denying it, of all things, is certainly not going to make me want to defend my stance.

Why defend my stance to the guy I think is scum?

As for everyone else, they either agree with it, or they disagree with it.

You did leave things to the imagination when you just pointed out the posts. There could have been many conclusions drawn from those posts since you didn't explain anything until I pressed you further. Also, I loled at the italicized part. Unless you're 100% sure I'm scum (And if you are, you might want to back off on the tunneling a bit), you have no reason to.

1. Except that GW's post doesn't read like your posts, because his actually appear pro-town. Try again.

Except that it doesn't even matter if you think GW is town or not. I know you think that not explaining how something is scummy is scummy and I know GW was doing it yet you ignored it. Somethings up here.

2.2 I have NEVER in my entire mafia career seen a town player, when accused of doing something scummy, say "But X did it too! Why is no one suspecting him!" It is honestly one of the strongest scumtells from my opinion, and not only did you commit it, but you also made the CRAPPIEST attempt at deflecting.

Except that I don't even care that no one suspects GW. In fact, other than his recent posts, he's been playing very town-like and I get overall town vibes from him. What I do care about is how you're just ignoring everything GW does because he's acting town. This is either the worst attempt at buddying or the worst mason team ever.

Also, you have yet to say how I've been mudslinging.

THIS IS MUDSLINGING.

Herp. Derp.

Uh, no its not. Straight from the dictionary(.com):

mud·sling·ing
[muhd-sling-ing]
–noun
an attempt to discredit one's competitor, opponent, etc., by malicious or scandalous attacks.

(Or in mafia terms, attacking somebody just to make them look bad)

Since I have a reason other than making you look bad (Scumhunting), I'm still curious as to how I'm mudslinging.

Every single post after this one should contain a reason why we would lynch ANY person who is not Zinger today.

My reasoning for why other people are scummy are in my other posts. I'm fine with a Zinger lynch though.

[Doombunny9]

-You said I didn't explain how I didn't explain something how something was scummy until you asked and thought I was scummy for it. GW didn't explain how me/RC were buddying until I asked plenty of times. They may not be exactly the same but the same general idea is there.
-How the hell is using a dictionary(.com) to explain the concept of mudslinging flailing? Would it have been flailing if I didn't use a dictionary?
-I could say you're trying to pin suspicion on me. I could say Zinger is trying to pin suspicion on Grey or vice versa. What makes this mudslinging and not anything else (Also, as per the dictionary definition, what makes my reasoning mudslinging rather than anything else? I don't see how I was apparently trying to pin something on GW just to make him look bad rather than scumhunting or anything else)
-So you're saying you weren't ignoring tells? Show me. Also, how is this a coverup when its been the point I've been trying to get to since the start?
-GW

is

town or GW

is acting

town? You seem to be having trouble telling the difference both in writing and in acting.

[Doombunny9]

I did so explain how it was scummy. I said there was buddying language. I just didn't point out the language. What do you think I did, simply say that there was, and then hope someone else would find some in there and point it out for me? Does that make any logical sense?

You only explained how it was scummy after I asked you twice. The other time you just posted quotes which could have been made into whatever someone wants it to be-not necessarily what you saw.

Zinger is looking worse and worse with every post. He's flailing like hell, take three tries to understand what Grey is trying to get at, and uses the old "Nuh uh. YOU did it, not me" defense.

[Doombunny9]

In any event doomster, you're not clean of suspicion yourself.

No one is. What point are you trying to make here?

Anything I say before that will just be twisted into something to be used against me.

Ew. Just ew. The only people I would think would be scared of such things are scum. There is no town motivation to saying this. For town Catching scum>Self-preservation (Except in a mylo/lylo situation). Also, why not "astound" us now? I don't see how waiting will make your defense any better?

About this, should'nt we ask for the claims before the one post in case we have any questions about thier claim? I.E. before the nomination process.
They won't be able to answer questions after the single post.

Hm, I suppose you're right. New idea: In the nomination phase, the town decides as a whole who the top two will be (Anyone who doesn't follow this is scum) and before the lists are sent out, the top two people claim, answer questions, etc.

[Doombunny9]

@Zinger- If you are town you shouldn't have to worry about people twisting your words because if you flip town, we're going to read everything you say as though you are town. Using post 540 as an example, even if people were to disregard your post on imaginality now and give him town points for it, as soon as you flip imaginality would get the scum points he deserves (Assuming that your case is good enough). Scumhunting is ALWAYS towns #1 priority regardless of how scummy you are. The only reason you'd have to worry about any of this is if you're scum.

[Doombunny9]

Then what about scum twisting your words into scummy ones?
That's how much misunderstandings would suddenly hop in and get town lynched right off the bat.

I was talking about what happened if he were to die and flip town, if that's the case, even if scum were to twist his words to make them look scummy, the town would still know that they were coming from a town PoV and would look at them like that. Even if scum are twisting around Zinger's words, he shouldn't be hiding and refusing to do any scumhunting since well, if everyone were under fear that their words would be twisted around and acted the same way, we wouldn't get anywhere.

I don't really feel as if I understood your question so if this isn't what you were asking, could you please clarify?

@Kcda- I still have an unanswered question (Post 428- What about posts 404 though 420 makes Grey town incarnate) and I'd like to see a response to Amrun post 493

[Doombunny9]

now going over your ISO i never saw a true case. if you still think me scum I'd love to see one.

-Creating noise by splitting up your posts rather than just posting all at once
-Buddying up with Amrun
-Throwing people into town/scum categories without explaining your reasoning

-Rather than scumhunting, you just decide where people belong based on what other people do.

[Doombunny9]

Accidently sent my post when I was still writing it. Here's the rest:

-Creating noise by splitting up your posts rather than just posting all at once
-Buddying up with Amrun
-Throwing people into town/scum categories without explaining your reasoning
-A lot of the reads are the opposite of what other people are saying- possibly trying to get town reads if they flip
-Changing them when it would be opportunistic
-Rather than scumhunting, you just decide where people belong based on what other people do.
-Avoiding question(s) (Haven't counted yet)

[Doombunny9]

@Zinger- Even so, you shouldn't just be outright refusing. The town can't get anywhere if people don't say much just because scum might twist their words.

-Creating noise by splitting up your posts rather than just posting all at once

meta me. i do this everywhere.

Fair enough I suppose. It wasn't too strong of a point anyway.

-Buddying up with Amrun

I thought he was town.

Thinking someone is town is fine but your posts just read to me as less "Thinking Amrun is town" and more "Trying to get Amrun to think you're town"

-Avoiding question(s) (Haven't counted yet)

sorry about this. as stated was burnt by school.

I suppose that's fair enough but since I had to ask multiple times, it still makes me iffy on this point.

[Doombunny9]

DB... as of that case in 558 and 559 who was your top scum?

They were (And still are) Zinger followed by you.

~ If scum managed to twist your words, which may cause major misunderstandings, into a scummy point, then what now?

I'd call them out on it and clarify my meaning. If they kept going from there I'd defend myself as best I could and hope town could read for themselves the point I was trying to make. Running away scared and refusing to say anymore would be one of the last things I'd do.

[Doombunny9]

YET YOU ADMIT THAT MOST OF THE CASE ON ME IS CRAP?

This never happened. I said that one point I had you was crap. Everything else I still stand behind. Nice misrep though. One more thing to add to my list of reasons.

Anyhow, I'd still like to see Zinger lynched. Like Exe said, scum probably do have fakeclaims and it would be dumb to assume that Zinger is town because of his claim. Kcda also has a powerful role and I'm not sure at this point if it would be the best choice to see him lynched at this point, especially since he can easily be confirmed through his vig shot (And his roleblocks to a much lesser extent). All this and I find Zinger to be much more scummy than Kcda and his self vote is just the icing on the cake for me.

[Doombunny9]

What the hell? An unlimited time machine?
Where did the idea of unlimited time machines come from?

What is this I don't even. You do realize it was Kcda, correct?

This shouldn't even need to be said but anyone who doesn't vote Zinger today will be under serious scrutiny tomorrow. Voting a confirmable PR over a VT is always bad.

[Doombunny9]

You are correct but I don't see what that has to do with anything. You only responded to the unlimited time machines after Trow mentioned them and asked him where the idea came from. If you had been reading the thread you'd have known it was kcda.

[Doombunny9]

Zingers case on Amrun seems pretty weak and as Amrun said, a lot of the points are crap or null.

@Grey- Yeah, I had a few problems with it too but luckily for us, it can easily be confirmed through his vig kill. He can easily be lynched in the future if he turns out to be lying.

[Doombunny9]

@Tragedy- Your last few posts have been full of fluff. I don't believe this is all you have to say. You're telling me that in this whole nomination/statements phase you haven't seen anything scummy enough worth commenting on? Try harder.

[Doombunny9]

Well, its crap that we don't get a confirmation of Zinger's alignment but its pointless speculating at this point until we get more info.

@Kcda- What did you mean when you claimed and said "Now that I have claimed, the mafia must kill at least 5 members of the town to have a chance to take me out of play for good." Also, do you have any idea why your role name is "Elite Bodyguard" and did your PM come with any flavor?

@GW- What was your reasoning for voting Kcda over Zinger?

@Grey- You've been online during the voting phase, why didn't you send your vote in?

[Doombunny9]

Didn't get a revised list in before it ended. On my original list, Kcda was higher up than Zinger.

What do you mean by this? That the mod just used your original lynch list from the nomination phase or that you just sent in the same thing? If the former, this doesn't match up since Grey sent in a list during the nomination phase and he's now "not voting" and if the latter, I really doubt it takes that long to type "1. Zinger 2. Kcda".

yall berated me instead of legitimately answering my questions.

What questions? If you're talking about the ones in your one allowed post, I've answered them already.

Do scum have time machines y/n?

As with Tragedy, I think scum would have time machines due to the imbalance it would create. Town being able to manipulate time while scum just sits back and tries to deal with it would be difficult for them, especially with roles like Kcda's.

@Kcda- You missed the first part of my question: What did you mean when you claimed and said "Now that I have claimed, the mafia must kill at least 5 members of the town to have a chance to take me out of play for good."

[Doombunny9]

so..... does DB9 read or what?

Doh, I see what you mean now. Reading comprehension fail. Still, why are you assuming that scum don't have time machines? That seems rather dangerous.

I sent in 3 lists throughout that time. Each time, the order that I placed Kcda and Zinger changed whilst trying to make up my mind. The last one sent in had Kcda higher than Zinger, and I never got to switch it again before the day ended.

What about Kcda made you have a hard time making up your mind?

@Grey- I remember asking you a question two posts ago. Feel free to answer any time.

[Doombunny9]

...... DB.... i'm assuming they do.

You said "

if the scum does not have a time machine

i could just go somewhere every night and at least guarantee i'll be in lylo..." This is causing me confusion as you seem sure you can be able to last until lylo... But only if scum don't have a time machine... Which you think they do.

who defended zinger hardcore?

Ooh! Ooh! Pick me! Is it RC?

can there be a scum version then?....

My role says "Town X" as well. I think its safe to assume that everybody does.

[Doombunny9]

Read the rest of the post you quoted for me, also read my last post. Just so i'm sure you're not misrepping me KAYTHNX

Yes, I have read those posts but when you claimed your role you said that "The mafia must kill blah blah blah", If you think the mafia have time machines, why say this?

And yes, GW is correct, my role name is "Town [Insert role]". I'm not saying any more about it.

i note where DB9 says he's a "town X" AFTER I clearly state as such.

The reason I said it is because you were speculating about there being a scum elite bodyguard due to your role name. I said this to show that no, there probably isn't.

@Tragedy- I sincerely doubt you haven't seen anything scummy enough to comment on so far today. Who are your top three suspects so far and why?

[Doombunny9]

I don't think i could think this while think scum has no time machines now can i?

I understand you think that scum probably have time machines but you're missing the point to my question. In your claim you said that scum have to kill at least 5 townies before they can kill you. Later when you expand on it you say its only the case if scum don't have time machines. If you think scum have time machines, why say that scum have to kill at least 5 townies before they can kill you?

THAT WAS HALF OF YOUR CASE. YOU ADMITTED IT WAS CRAP AND AGREED WITH MY REASONS.

I admitted the first point was crap. I have NEVER said my second point was crap. I said your posts looked like you were trying to get Amrun to think you were town which btw, is scummy. As for my third point, as I said, I still find it scummy due to the fact that I had to ask multiple times. That's 1/7 of my case gone. Oh my, that is a lot. It must have been terrible.

[Doombunny9]

He mentioned he killed someone, unless by chance, he used the time machine to go back in time or ahead (Is this even possible?) and killed somebody.

Are you even reading?

@Tragedy- I would like to see your top 3 scumreads with reasoning.

[Doombunny9]

I'm sorry I have to do this but due to things out of my control, I won't be able to dedicate as much time to this game as I probably should and it would be best for me if I replace out.