Mini 1141 - Frogs Mafia 2 - GAME, SET, MATCH

[Apokalyptika]

Hey guys.

Unvote

Rereading as we speak.

[Apokalyptika]

Ok then,

Vote: mozamis

. Flipflopping, dodging questions, buddying/sucking up, not cool. Also saying that being illogical isn't a bad thing, and this backpedaling on scotmany. PJ is town, implosion is town. Possibly Amrun too. Meransiel is scummy, Truant/CES is silly in his MBL vote but otherwise fairly null.

[Apokalyptika]

Well, scum is simply more likely to be illogical than town. In addition, he was contradicting himself in the use of the word irrational. His Post 21 tries to clear it up, but frankly it doesn't ring true. Like I said, the pressure on scotmany followed by a "lol dunno no evidence" doesn't impress me, especially when he earlier said he couldn't be bothered to find any. In addition to buddying with Meransiel, he's been quite friendly to PJ, now that it seems advantageous to be on his good side.

Meransiel's pj vote was quite flimsy. He said he wasnted PJ to be more of a team player, which could quite easily be scumspeak for "Oh no! Town's got a leader! What can I do to discredit him?" Also, there's some moz coaching from his side (see his last post, where he congratulates moz for playing better and unvotes) Honestly, if mozamis was found to be town after all, my suspicions of Meransiel would be a lot less.

The vote was silly because Truant posted about how MBL only read the predecessor and such. I get the feeling that he didn't actually bother to go back and factcheck, which is silly, but not necessarily scummy. CES hasn't given me any complaints so far.

[Apokalyptika]

nopoint is...also silly, somewhat annoying, and somewhat scummy for ignoring facts.

I've pretty much said what I think if moz is scum; if he's town, MBL would look scummy for antagonizing him.

[Apokalyptika]

Ah, thought I'd put it in there. Tuncali seems newb-town so far.

[Apokalyptika]

vote: Apok

for a combination of OGML's leading "moz+merans" questions and Apok's flimsy cut-n-paste posting thus far. Sees nopoint as scummy and silly for missing facts, sees Truant/CES as "silly" for missing facts. Didn't come across well on the "illogical" accusation of mozamis. Apok's Meransiel suspicions were almost entirely based on the presumption that moz was scum.

Can't speak for OGML, but nopoint is scummy because that's all he's given us. Truant posted cases and stuff on others, and CES hasn't touched the point. Meanwhile, ender posted only the one random vote and nopoint hasn't said anything else. Hence, he's scummy. Also, I said straight out that my Meransiel suspicions were mostly based on moz being scum. I can't help it if my ideas have already been said by others, especially since I replaced in and haven't been able to form cases from the beginning. Anyway, gonna do some rereading/vote analysis.

[Apokalyptika]

Ok, I've reread. The flip wasn't actually as helpful in forming reads as I'd thought it would be, but I'm gonna

Vote: nopoint

. He's been tunneled hardcore onto MBL, and made the occasional remark about Meransiel and moz, then randomly bandwagoned onto the "OMG vig moz" thing and barely mentioned it before or since. Oddly enough, I'm also suspicious of MBL; he's focused on discrediting players, and he's left himself wide open. He could go after me, Amrun, Tuncali, nopoint, or CES fairly easily right now, and that's just from quickly skimming his recent posts.

[Apokalyptika]

I'm also suspicious of MBL; he's focused on discrediting players

How would you differentiate my "discrediting" from scumhunting?

he's left himself wide open. He could go after me, Amrun, Tuncali, nopoint, or CES fairly easily right now, and that's just from quickly skimming his recent posts.

Do you have reason to find any of those other players townish? If so, please share.

Well, your discrediting has more to do with implying that the other player is a weak player, thus discrediting reads they may have. For instance, calling moz "kid" all the time, saying Amrun is playing "blonde" and sloppy, etc. I've already said that I have town reads on Amrun and Tuncali. Tuncali because I think that newb-scum would be more jumpy and defensive, and Amrun because his posts have been fairly decent this game.

[Apokalyptika]

On Meransiel, I get an overall town feeling, but there are isolated chunks of scumminess (such as rolefishing moz's role in #45), averaging out to null.

[Apokalyptika]

Don't really have much to say at the moment, but Amrun makes a good point on kunkstar.

[Apokalyptika]

Scot, I'm voting nopoint/username, and I said I had something of a scumread on MBL.

[Apokalyptika]

OMGL/Apokalyptica

- OGML did nothing but try to force focus on moz and Mer, the big attention gatherers of the day. This would be super lazy scumhunting, if in fact he had any interest in finding scum. Apokalyptica has been much like scot in going with the flow, not making waves, but even more so. And on this very page she just commited a solid scumtell in saying "Scot, I'm voting nopoint/username, and I said I had something of a scumread on MBL." Not that she has a scumread on MBL, but that

she has said

that she has a scum read on MBL. It shows an enhanced concern about appearing consistent that a town player wouldn't have. I've caught out considerably more experienced players than this on the same tell before, and it's enough to push her right to the bottom of the pile for me.

VOTE: Apokalyptica

What? Scot asked me for my reads and why I wasn't voting, when I had stated my reads and was voting. I worded it that way because I was annoyed that Scot evidently hadn't read anything I wrote. Read it like "Scot, I'm

voting

nopoint/username, and I

said

I had something of a scumread on MBL." Good opening post, and I've got some thinking to do regarding your Meran read.

[Apokalyptika]

Ok, I've thought about username some more, and I've got some twitchy feelings about his read on Meran.

You see, I was also in the game with Meran and Nacho, where Meran flipped scum. And when he did flip scum, I actually had the same thought flicker across my mind.

That being said, I find it highly unlikely that someone who was not in the game would look it up, see that Meran flipped scum there, and use the confusion of the two games as an argument that Meran could be scum with town motivation. There wasn't even any argument based on having a fresh example of Meran's scum meta, just the plain fact that he confused the games. Combined with his other scum-twinge on Meran (which I didn't think was particularly scummy), and his overall town-read, I think username's hedging his bets a little too much. That being said, I should definitely have a fresh look at Meran myself, but at the moment, I see no reason to change my vote.

[Apokalyptika]

FYI, Bella, I wasn't accusing nopoint for attacking moz, I was accusing him for throwing a token support to it without any real context.

I dunno what on earth Meran's going on about claiming or not claiming or what have you, but it's fishy.

[Apokalyptika]

Well, the case on nopoint has already been hashed out. username comes in and takes up a very wishywashy position on Meran. He calls him gut-town with reservations, but only gives one example of him posting well, 2 or 3 examples of him being scummy, and a dash of WIFOMy "Scum wouldn't put themselves out there and do this" to taste. Meran's a player who tends to attract a lot of attention and votes to himself, so regardless of Meran's alignment, it would be very advantageous for nopoint to leave himself a back door to hop on a Meran wagon. In addition, the points for Meran's scumminess are fairly weak, especially the "mixing up the games" one. The more I think about it, the less substance it has.

Suspicions if username came up town: I'd be pretty lost here, admittedly, but I think that scot/CES might be good places to look. Maybe Bella.

Questions for username...other than why you're not claiming, why is your Tuncali scum-read so strong? You said Bella was null, and you're very insistent that Tuncali posted from scummy motives rather than newbie motives.

[Apokalyptika]

...I don't know what on Earth Meran's doing, but we shouldn't get distracted from username.

[Apokalyptika]

Huh...

[Apokalyptika]

Town doublevoter, sorry.

[Apokalyptika]

Observe:

Vote: Meransiel

Vote: scotmany

[Apokalyptika]

I haven't used my double vote yet because I haven't wanted to unnecessarily out myself.

Unvote: Meran, Vote: MBL

I'll go along with this for a bit; do you want to elaborate or not?

[Apokalyptika]

No, I can vote twice for the same person if I want.

Also, my scotmany vote is not arbitrary. Yesterday, he popped in to say he had no problem with kunk claiming, but never voted him. Scumalicious.

[Apokalyptika]

MBL--CES seemed like he had a thing going, so I wanted to see where he would go with it.

scotmany, even if you couldn't get back in time to vote, it makes no sense to just say that you have no problem with kunk claiming his role. It doesn't achieve anything but a pale, noncommittal distancing. I think this is a better lynch than MBL, and I'm debating whether I want to put two votes on him.

[Apokalyptika]

Just so you know, I'll probably be on LA for a few days. Also, scot, what the hell.

[Apokalyptika]

So scot's off the table at the moment, eh?

Unvote: scot, Vote: Amrun

I admit I've been getting a little lazy about this game, but her little back and forth jiggle with scot didn't strike me too well. Also, waiting to hear more from implosion, as I've forgotten about him a bit.

[Apokalyptika]

Oh dear, I've been prodded. Apologies. My computer seems to work now, though, so I'll have something in the next few hours.

[Apokalyptika]

Ok, so I really thought I'd have my reread done in a few hours. Still, nobody's posted, so it's hopefully not too horrible.

Unvote: Amrun, Vote: implosion

I'm definitely keeping my MBL vote. On Day 1, MBL was noticeably warm and friendly towards kunkstar, and my Day 1 points against him (AtE in particular) still hold water. As for implosion, admittedly this is more of a process-of-elimination vote, but he's been rather overlooked in this game. I actually had to go back and check if he was confirmed town and I'd somehow missed it. His posting hasn't been nearly good enough to warrant this treatment. Also, let it be noted that I'm still no scotmany fan, claim or no.

[Apokalyptika]

Fair enough.

Unvote: MBL, Vote: implosion

Not liking MBL's specifically tracking down Bella's scum games and no others in his meta analysis. Just from ISOing her in Open 272, she seemed fairly lurky.

[Apokalyptika]

Mod: I unvted Amrun a bit ago, ad my voes both reside on implosion.

[Apokalyptika]

Unvote: implosion, Vote: MBL

Also, I'm deeply sorry, but I will have to ask for replacement. If ever I'm on again and you're running a game, feel free to PM me asking to replace in.