Cowboy Bebop Remix [Endgame]

[GreyICE]

ToastyToast (4): Kdub, xRECKONERx, LLD, Rhinox
Reckoner (2): Toasty, AntiTown
Cogito Ergo Sum (1): Jahudo
Jahudo (1): CES

This vote count is sexy. We approve.

If Toasty is scum: Remainder is probably somewhere in AT, Jahudo, CES. Almost clears kdub.
If Reckoner is scum: Remainder could be anyone not LLD.
If both are town: One of CES/Jahudo is scum. Guaranteed. Dubs town wagons always seem to work like that.

[GreyICE]

UT:
There's actually a key to reading UT.
ScumUT gives you the feeling that he's average, has a handle on the game, has some sort of direction.
TownUT doesn't let you know where the fuck he's going, seems to care more about snark than anything else, usually stuck in perpetual catchup.

This is town UT.

BASICALLY THIS

My god man, I spent an entire game, when I wasn't poking the kitten for jingles, watching UT and figuring out to alienate him from basically everyone in the entire thread. He's perpeptually a day late, a dollar short, and annoying about it.

[GreyICE]

On the plus side... I just stole Fate's top of the thread post.

On the minus side, for scum at least, I have decided to take an interest in temporal matters, and thus will be setting aside my pimping ride, awesome hat, and royal we temporarily.

No worries, PopeICE will return.

I think a full claim out of ToastTastic is totally warrented at this point. As I really have no problems hammering.

[GreyICE]

Meh, forgot about that.

That still irritates me. Scum assassin is an INSANE power. Scum double-voter is an INSANE power. I assume this has to be to counteract everyone in the town getting power roles outside of Nacho, but it's still scum-balanced.

Dear lord I'm surprised if he's scum that the scum didn't push the 'day 1 bounty lynch' idea much harder.

[GreyICE]

Toasty:

So you're basically VT? Like what's the entire role name format?

[GreyICE]

This could net us Rhinox scum if I'm right...

[GreyICE]

Balls. That's exactly what mine says too.

I was seeing who would say what about it. It's what Rhinox has been stuck on since early day 2.

Opinions, everyone? Mine is that motivators are a weak town power, unbelievably godly scum power. I'm leaning towards toast-town honestly.

[GreyICE]

Balls. That's exactly what mine says too.

I was seeing who would say what about it. It's what Rhinox has been stuck on since early day 2.

Opinions, everyone? Mine is that motivators are a weak town power, unbelievably godly scum power. I'm leaning towards toast-town honestly.

Grey, you realize that Fate is almost 100% to give flavor proof fake claims right?

So it's likely that this "motivator" power doesn't even exist.

Don't base your speculation off his claim. Base it off his play. And his play says he's scum.

Bah. There was a totally awesome hole in there for him to try and push something at Rhinox, and he didn't take it.

I admit it's not quite as bullet proof as Rhinox who spent all of day 2 kicking my claim because of that one word, which I find just really unlikely for scum to do - for the most part, they just don't even give a shit about their fakeclaims.

I'm willing to chill and wait for Reckoner to actually provide something resembling content.

[GreyICE]

You didn't immediately jump on it, which would have resulted in a hammer landing on your head.

[GreyICE]

And I'm also amused that my purpose in this game seems to be to torture Rhinox

[GreyICE]

Dude, Anti, we've like established that the bounties are going to be for scum fakeclaims, not realclaims.

Because otherwise each and every bounty confirms one townie. Which would be totally ridiculous. I'm sticking to that theory unless and until we see a RDC bounty.

[GreyICE]

Fate might have balanced this game for the possible breakage you're talking about, ice. So far we've seen really weak town bounties and a really strong scum bounty.

But it's not that important. That's all you had to say about the case I cobbled together?

I have an opinion on the case.

I feel no need to share it. Happy watching things progress.

[GreyICE]

Alright guys I'm back in town, but today is filled with catching up on homework and running errands. Slight possibility of me posting content tonight, but if not, tomorrow for sure.

This

[GreyICE]

Yep, gonna be tonight - maybe I'll get something up during class. Let me ask this: is D1 really, really important to read? Because if I could cut D1 out of my reread, it would save me OODLES of time.

Given that like approximately nothing happened day 2... yes.

[GreyICE]

Last minute Jahudowagon is go!

So damn tempted, you have no idea...

[GreyICE]

Screw it

Screw claims, screw flavor, screw night action.

No matter how much I look at day 2 and 3, Jahudo is scummier than Toasty.

And it hurts me to say that, as cool as it would be to 3 for 3 the reads day 1.

Vote: Jahudo

[GreyICE]

Maybe Toasty is scum. But I tossed him a branch while he was drowning - a way to claim to have a similar role PM to me and implicate Rhinox, and he chooses to true-claim his role name.

He sits here at L-1 and says Antihero, who barely posts, makes good arguments.

And fails to call CES scummy, just... CES. Three posts under a long, well thought out post arguing to vote for Jahudo, he says he thinks Jahudo is town still.

He could be scum resigned to his fate. He's worth flipping.

But nothing Jahudo has done since day 1 has made a lick of sense.

[GreyICE]

SO WE TRADED UT FOR AGM? DAY GOT BETTER

TLDR:
Vi = Scum
GreyICE = Confirmed Town
Jahudo situation = WEIRD. Like beyond my usual level of weird

Would love sudden opinions on Kdub, Jahudo, Toasty, LLD (hey, you were in LyLo with her) and CES. Leave out the last two if you're lacking time

[GreyICE]

Actually, given proximity to deadline, Jahudo and Toasty, you can read more overnight.

TLDR: Jahudo
I claimed 1-shot investigate, UK confirmed my role was 100% town. I mentioned Red Dragon Clan was scum.
SUDDENLY a wild Seraphim appeared and claimed to be Vicious. We speculated he was a miller.
THEN a wild VI (caps intentional this time <3) appeared and claimed to be an actual miller who hadn't claimed at start of day
THEN a wild Jahudo appeared and claimed to be a miller who as a bounty power wasn't a miller anymore

THEN Seraphim unclaimed Vicious, and claimed Spike, third-party Vicious lyncher.

After that, shit got weird.

PEDIT: Basically the above.
Except the 'no mention of RDC' is weird and insane since RDC is definitely scum, the role claim is unusual, the miller flavor is poor, and a bounty power not to be a miller is 100% pointless whereas a bounty power of 'godfather' makes lots of sense.

Also Nacho had an amazing case on Jahudo. Guess who speedhammered Vi before the case could be presented, and guess who died overnight despite lurking like fuck.

[GreyICE]

Well there's the insane part where he just has ninja quickhammered two days in a row. And... at this point his ISO is an artwork. Including not voting for

the person he was counterclaiming

and futzing about questioning other suspects until he quickhammered day 2. If I had to bet, the QT does basically look like:

Vi: "Jahudo, CC me and then I'll get you lynched and I'll be confirmed town miller."
Jahudo: "Dude, that's kinda dumb."
Vi: "Oh come on, that herp ICE just got confirmed town and he's sworn to come after me, and so has LLD. And you can distract ICE, but neither love nor money can stray the Lady from a tunnel."
Jahudo: "Fine. Make the best out of my sacrifice."

~~~~~~~~~~~~
THREAD:

Vi: "I'm a miller with a bounty bonus of one shot hider"
Jahudo: "I'm a miller with a bounty bonus of not being a miller. I waited to claim until late day 1 because I wanted to see if I could get my bounty power (which requires a lynch). But I was going to totally claim before the end of day 1!"
^^
{ACTUAL DAMN EXPLANATION FOR NOT IMMEDIATELY CLAIMING MILLER AT DAYSTART}

Seraphim: "I'm a magical lyncher who wins any time Vicious dies, even if you lynch him. And if you lynch me I get a vengeful kill. And I don't 'beautiful princess' your town by leaving the thread, I get to stick around after I lynch successfully. And I might get access to really cool powers."

Jahudo: "..."
Vi: "..."
Town: "..."

Day 2

Vi: "Yes let us end this!"

GreyICE: "Yes, lets. My 'investigate?' It's a 1-shot hider ability. And it turns out I misread my role PM, it's a bounty power. You're double counterclaimed."

Vi: "Well Fate just isn't very imaginative. He probably ran out of bounty powers and recycled them."

Town: "..."

Scum QT: "..."

Vi, in QT: "... Fuck. Jahudo, you're now confirmed town instead of me! Hammer for glory and carry on!"

Jahudo: "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF"

[GreyICE]

Toasty:
"Seraphim is obvscum!"
"Okay Seraphim isn't obvscum because GreyICE is really scummy for attacking him."
"Well if we lynch either Seraphim or GreyICE and they flip town we should line up the next lynch."
"LAWL GreyICE suspects obvtown Vi because he is so scummy scumbag McScummer. Lemme not comment on anything Vi is doing in the thread."
"Lemme avoid the miller debate like it has EBOLA HERPES"

Seraphim: "IMMA JESTER"

Toasty: "..."

Day 2

"Vote: GreyICE" despite UK flipping town Ex-Lover bodyguard, me claiming to be UK's flavor ex-lover. Oh, and me being the bounty for the day.
"GreyICE is obvscum."
"Err... okay, not even CES is buying this one anymore."
"Okay, well, GreyICE is annoying, but Vi is the lynch."

[GreyICE]

SEE AGM, the part where it falls apart is the claim order went like this:
<<Thread opens March 7th>>


<<March 16th>> GreyICE: I'm a 1-shot cop. I investigate people and discover if they're members of the RDC"
Next 48 Hours:
Seraphim: "I'm a RDC member, and I totally am town."
Town: "Did he just claim Miller?"
Vi: "NO CAUSE I'M THE MILLER OBV"
Jahudo: "Yeah, no I'm the miller."
Toasty: "If you get any sort of guilty, you could be fakeclaiming scum, we might have to consider lynching you to test it."

Notes

Toasty = GreyICE suspect #1
Vi = GreyICE suspect #2
Jahudo = Nachomamma8 Suspect #1


It has crossed my mind these competing wagons are scum/scum...


Oh yeah, for bonus, CES:

Day 1:
Vi: "I suspect x!"
CES: "Vote X"

Vi: "I suspect y!"
CES: "Vote: y!"

Vi: "CES, I see what you're doing. Vote Z"
CES: "Vote Z"

Vi: "CES is obvtown."
Town: "WUT"

Day 2

GI: "I dubs counterclaim Vi"
Rhinox: "I is caught up in flavor, vote GI"
Toasty: "That makes sense, vote GI"
CES: "VOTE GI"
LLD and Antihero etc. explain to them that they're either scum or have rocks for brains

CES: "Not a bad point, I can see the protown motives of not claiming a hider as a hider so the scum have all the incentive in the world to find your breadcrumbs and if you hid behind town go for a 2-for-1 on the night kill."

CES: "Vote: Jahudo because he counterclaimed obvtown Vi."
Vi: "Right on my obvtown buddy!"
CES: *GRIN*

Town: "WTF MATE?"

[GreyICE]

Actually I don't mind the fresh perspective.

I can't really see a downside to killing Toasty and CES here.

[GreyICE]

And I'm a horrible evil gambiting monster as town too.

I mean we basically sunk Vi with my fearsome power role: "Vanilla townie." And probably at least one more of the scumteam to boot

Although I'd love to take all the credit, but that's basically 30% dumb luck, 20% raw incompetence, and 50% me playing exactly scummily enough to be forced into claim range Day 1 without playing anywhere near scummily enough that anyone would consider hammering after the claim.

[GreyICE]

Toasty:
*Voted with Vi all of day 1 // was supported by Vi day 1
*Wanted to chain Seraphim's lynch and my lynch (note: neither of us was RDC scum, although Seraphim was 3rd party - which had to be unknown to scumteam)
*Reaction to Cop claim:
--Suggested RDC was not scum
----When that fell apart (thanks to Vi, ironically)...
--Suggested lynching me if I got a guilty. Note, he was #1 suspect, therefore most likely person for me to investigate.

Day 2:
Voted me over Vi
Waited until late to bus.

PEDIT: We'll learn the color of your role PM. The quality of your play is established independent of that.

[GreyICE]

AGM YOU BEAUTIFUL DIAMOND

I COULD LEARN TO LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK

Vi (2):

Jahudo,

Nachomamma

Lady Lambdadelta (5): Untrod Tripod, Antitown,

UncertainKitten,

CES,

Seraphim

Seraphim (4)

: Kdub,

Vi,

GreyICE,

Ladyλδ

Nachomamma (1):

Rhinox

Notes: Toasty was voting seraphim before he 'unvoted to avoid quicklynch.'

Vote Count
Lady Lambdadelta (4): Antitown, CogitoES,

Seraphim

,

Nachomamma

GreyICE (3): ToastyToast, Rhinox,

Vi

ToastyToast (1): Untrod Tripod
Untrod Tripod (1): Jahudo

Seraphim

(4): Kdub,

GreyICE,

Ladyλδ,

UncertainKitten

Jahudo (1): Nachomamma
GreyICE (5): ToastyToast, Rhinox,

Vi,

CogitoES,

Seraphim

(L-2)
ToastyToast (2): Untrod Tripod,

GreyICE

Untrod Tripod (2): Jahudo, Antitown
Seraphim (2): Kdub, Ladyλδ,

UncertainKitten

Three major wagons:

1) LLD

LLD/Seraphim: Vi wobbles publicly in thread several times before heading towards Seraphim. If scumteam was supporting instead of bussing, that means there was at least one scum on LLD wagon.

UK confirmed town, Seraphim confirmed 3rd party, UT confirmed dunce (he flaked for about a week with an RVS vote still on LLD),

Scum in: {CES, Kdub}

2) Seraphim

Thanks to several swift kicks, Vi declares LLD 'obvtown.'

3) GreyICE
Toasty moves from Seraphim to GreyICE, declares one of the two MUST be scum.
Vi more or less gently agrees, moves to GreyICE
CES moves to GreyICE

4) Claim, confirmed town:

Jahudo (2):

Nachomamma,

CogitoES
GreyICE (2): ToastyToast,

Seraphim

ToastyToast (3): Untrod Tripod,

GreyICE

,

Vi

Untrod Tripod (2): Jahudo, Antitown
Seraphim (3): Kdub, Ladyλδ, UncertainKitten (L-4)

CES: Fires to Jahudo with Nacho
Vi: Fires to Toasty, briefly.

Jahudo (2): Nachomamma, CogitoES

GreyICE (2)

: ToastyToast,

Seraphim

ToastyToast (2): Untrod Tripod,

GreyICE

Untrod Tripod (1): Antitown

Seraphim

(4): Kdub, Ladyλδ, UncertainKitten,

Vi

(L-3)

THEN TO SERAPHIM. NEVER EVEN MENTIONS THE TOAST AGAIN.

Vi (2)

: Jahudo,

Seraphim

Jahudo (2):

Nachomamma,

CogitoES

GreyICE (1):

ToastyToast
ToastyToast (2): Untrod Tripod,

GreyICE

Untrod Tripod (1): Antitown
Seraphim (3): Kdub, Ladyλδ,

UncertainKitten (

L-4)

TOASTY REFUSES TO UNVOTE DESPITE URGING FROM Vi

Vi: It's stupid to leave your vote on confirmed town
Toasty: But it's scummy to move it.
Vi: That makes sense, you're not an easy mislynch at all. Carry on, my good sir.

Vi (3):

Jahudo,

Seraphim

,

GreyICE

(L-4)
Jahudo (2):

Nachomamma,

CogitoES
GreyICE (1): ToastyToast
ToastyToast (1): Untrod Tripod
Untrod Tripod (1): Antitown
Seraphim (3): Kdub, Ladyλδ,

UncertainKitten

(L-4)

ME AND NACHO: DON'T LYNCH SERAPHIM HE'S NOT SCUM
TOWN: LAWL WE IS DEAF DUHHHHHHHHH

Vi (3):

Seraphim,

GreyICE,

Nachomamma

Jahudo (1): CogitoES
ToastyToast (1): Untrod Tripod
Untrod Tripod (1): Antitown
Seraphim (7): Kdub, Ladyλδ,

UncertainKitten

,

Vi,

Toasty, Rhinox, Jahudo

Vi wagon ENTIRELY SCUM FREE

MOVED TO SERAPHIM:

Toasty (From GreyICE)
Rhinox (from not voting)
Jahudo (From Vi-scum)

Vi (6):

GreyICE,

LLD, Toasty, AntiTown, Kdub, Jahudo
Jahudo (2):

Vi,

CES

you lied about cop, and now you claim HIDER? WTF THATS LIKE THE SCUMMIEST--ugh, not to mention one-shot hider, which makes no sense at all.
seriously, there are only two options:
1)You're purposely playing stupid so we can get bounty rewards
2)Scum
this means: quite a safe lynch. And we lynched a 3rd partyD1--nothing wrong with that.

I wish we could ask kitten if her role info changes with his new claim :/
@Kdub: her death could be strategic on scum's part. We can't ask her if her opinion on GreyICE has changed.

Question for GreyICE: UK said her role-info suggested you were town. Did you have role info that suggested she was town?

I'm also willing to vote Vi/Jahudo, but still, GreyICE...#@!*#*(*$&(*#*$#

HAHA

IS IT THAT EASY?

TOASTY?

CES?

IS IT JUST THAT?

Did Professor Paragon decide to see what happens when a scumteam ties itself up in a nice little bow with me, UK, and LLD making sure that shit never stays predictable, Nacho there to eat the souls of those who trip up, and Jahudo throwing down the critical triprope?

The depature from my wagon - the perfect scum peony blossom

Vi goes to the motherwagon
CES goes to Jahudo
Toasty can't peony blossom to anywhere without sheeping one of his scumteam, or inventing a new possible lynch target!

Toasty posts from that era:

I've just spent the last day playing DA2, and then I see...all of this.

I will not remove my vote from you today, and my vote will go on you again tomorrow unless significant evidence points elsewhere

</3

GAWDAMMIT WHY'D YOU HAVE TO SEEM SO SCUM GREYICE?! If Seraphim flips town, I'm still going to be suspicious. And if it turns out you are scum, then that's one good fake-claim. I would be more helpful right now but I'm brain-dead atm.

@Toasty: Reaction to my claim. Now.

IF you mean the GreyICE claim, I'll believe it when he investigates. Its his choice WHO to investigate, but I want to hear the result.

Also, I'm not today's bounty. I was expecting it to be me early, however, based on lore.

Vi's recent vote on me is...WTF.

Toasty what are you talking about with the lyncher comment?

If we are to believe seraphim's claim, then when he reaches his wincon, he becomes a confirmed townie with the ability to keep all his powers. What does keeping him around get us? Today has largely become about who the bad guys are. The mix of all the claims so far makes the game unbelievable. We have millers,

a one-shot cop who may not even be investigating scum,

and a lyncher. I understand how the miller thing could be a throw-off for town, but the lyncher seems...out of place to me.

Lynching one of the millers directly at this point is a suboptimal strategy since you're pretty much proven not town. We win regardless of your flip given our parameters. Further, your flip provides ~*~informations~*~ that lead to scum, whether it's your buddy or unrelated to you.

I agree with this. Lynching Seraphim has the least drawbacks at this point. We either take out a third party that could be aiming for town or lynch scum. On the offchance that he's trying to lynch scum, we find out exactly who we're looking for and use GreyICE's information to take out the red dragon.

Vote: Seraphim

[GreyICE]

Possibility: CES is just scummy enough to be scum.

[GreyICE]

GREYICE TELL ME WHO TO VOTE I'M SO LOST NOW!

Jahudo miller claim seems more likely town than scum.
Toasty seems scummy but claim and recent posts maybe seem more town.
CES is playing to be unreadable but comes out of the woodwork to go apeshit on jahudo doesn't seem to make sense if CES-scum/Jahudo-town.

OMG WHAT IF NONE OF THEM ARE SCUM?

And what, scum are LLD and Antihero?

We're probably fucked.

[GreyICE]

Oh for fucks sake, this is Jahudo's first post in the thread. I have a wallpost incoming, but lets just highlight this:

So Vi we meet again. Wait a second, Vi... vi.. vicious !!!

Jahudo... that's quite the motherfucking coincidence.

[GreyICE]

GREYICE TELL ME WHO TO VOTE I'M SO LOST NOW!

Jahudo miller claim seems more likely town than scum.
Toasty seems scummy but claim and recent posts maybe seem more town.
CES is playing to be unreadable but comes out of the woodwork to go apeshit on jahudo doesn't seem to make sense if CES-scum/Jahudo-town.

OMG WHAT IF NONE OF THEM ARE SCUM?

And what, scum are LLD and Antihero?

We're probably fucked.

Wait, LLD and I are on the scumlist above AGM and kdub?

What are you smoking, because I want some.

No dude.
Top of my town list is LLD
You're THE entry under it.

If the two of you are scum together, we'd be fucked. Got it? Town could not

POSSIBLY

win. That being said, that is totally, utterly, 100% impossible, and I will just make chess's fish slapping picture my avatar if that is actually the case.

[GreyICE]

Lemme show you something

I usually see this in larger games, but it's a classic, classic maneuver I call the peony blossom (off an attack in a silly system called Exalted). It basically occurs when a wagon that most or all (in smaller games) of the scum team were on becomes totally, utterly non-viable in every single way (claim kills all hope of there being a lynch). It's the best sort of swarm behavior, because everyone acts independently.

Town, in this instance, reread with the knowledge that someone is confirmed town, and change their minds accordingly. Scum have a slightly different motivation. They want to encourage wagons on likely looking non-scum targets.

Lets examine the critical vote count, when I'm at L-1 (fate ISO #24)

Now Seraphim is not town, is not acting town, but to the scumteam, he's just another mislynch waiting to happen (weirdass BS did NOT occur yet). So for scum purposes, he's green.

Ladyλδ stated categorically I'm town. No explanation or questions. How the FUCK does scum LLD hammer me and have me flip town after that? It's not even possible, it's suicide. Ignoring everything else that LLD has done, the wagon on her that was clearly scum driven, the tunnel, the fact confirmed town nacho and me have a strong, strong townread on her, that should sell you on LLD town.

kdub states that he thinks I'm town. He's less certain, but again he'd have a lot of trouble moving towards me or hammering, and he questions the movement and votes quite heavily (and as we know, they were scum driven - Vi was VERY happy with my wagon).

UT - again, town read on him and AGM. Reckoner doesn't have the time for mafia and has been thinking of quitting, it's a null tell on his part. I'd say he actually would have it easier playing scum. And lets face it, the conclusion that the Toasty ISO is scummy is, well... pretty damn correct.

AT reads town.

Anyway, the peony blossom.
Critical Vote counts:

Spoiler:

1) Fate ISO #24 (GreyICE at L-1)

Jahudo (1):

Nachomamma

GreyICE

(6): ToastyToast, Rhinox,

Vi

, CogitoES,

Seraphim

,

UncertainKitten

ToastyToast (2): Untrod Tripod,

GreyICE

Untrod Tripod (2): Jahudo, Antitown

Seraphim

(3): Kdub, Ladyλδ,

Vi (0):
Jahudo (2):

Nachomamma

, CogitoES

GreyICE

(2): ToastyToast,

Seraphim

ToastyToast (3): Untrod Tripod,

GreyICE

,

Vi

Untrod Tripod (2): Jahudo, Antitown

Seraphim

(3): Kdub, Ladyλδ,

UncertainKitten

(L-4)
Not voting: Rhinox

Vi's toasty vote

Even by the standards of the very bad scum game Vi was playing, that was a miserable vote.

But anyway, votes (considering only non-confirmed):
Vi - moves to Toasty
CES - moves to Jahudo
Rhinox - moves to not voting
Toasty - stays fixed.

Spoiler:

Fate ISO #31 (Friday March 18th)

Vi

(2): Jahudo, Seraphim
Jahudo (2): Nachomamma, CogitoES

GreyICE

(1): ToastyToast
ToastyToast (2): Untrod Tripod, GreyICE
Untrod Tripod (1): Antitown

Seraphim

(3): Kdub, Ladyλδ, UncertainKitten (L-4)

Not voting: Rhinox

Fate ISO #32 (Sunday march 21st)

Vi

Vi

(3): Jahudo,

Seraphim

,

GreyICE

(L-4)
Jahudo (2):

Nachomamma

, CogitoES
Lady Lambdadelta (0):
GreyICE (1): ToastyToast
ToastyToast (1): Untrod Tripod
Untrod Tripod (1): Antitown

Seraphim

(3): Kdub, Ladyλδ,

UncertainKitten

(L-4)
Not voting: Rhinox

Fate ISO #33

Lynch

(Monday March 22nd)

Vi (3): Seraphim, GreyICE, Nachomamma
Jahudo (1): CogitoES
GreyICE (1): ToastyToast
ToastyToast (1): Untrod Tripod
Untrod Tripod (1): Antitown
Seraphim (7): Kdub, Ladyλδ, UncertainKitten, Vi, Toasty, Rhinox, Jahudo

Now what was happening in the thread?

DEADLINE

Not only was Vi wagon starting to take off, look who wanted a piece. Nacho was happy for Vi blood. LLD wanted Vi lynched 'next' and most certainly would have compromised on a Vi lynch at end of day. UK wan't overwhelmed with Vi either, and me and her were sparring over the vote change - it could have easily been a UK movement.

UK, Nacho, and LLD moving to Vi-wagon would have meant day 1 scum lynch on Vicious, thus enabling whatever BSery Seraphim did, AS WELL as costing the scum team a member on the first day.

That's a potential game ender right there. Certainly the scum team would be hard pressed to recover.

Last 4 votes on the wagon

Vi

, Toasty, Rhinox, Jahudo

I can assure you two of those are scum,

at least.

Of them, the overlap between my wagon and Seraphims:

Toasty, Rhinox, Vi

That's actually a viable scumteam tbh. I erase 60% of my town read I had on Rhinox, effective naoh.

Toasty is the WORST by far. His vote was sitting on me for zero reason, then he moved for not too much reason. Rhinox comes out looking pretty damn awful on VC, but reread says that he's not that bad at all. He didn't push any wagons short of seraphim, which is actually somewhat pro-town (believe it or not, not trying to lynch someone when you have no idea who scum is is an acceptable town-tell in my book).

CES comes out looking like the designated 'scum off the wagon.'

Seraphlynch is dumb.

Jahudo just looks like scum. If you close your eyes on power roles, claims, etc., and read the damn thread, he's scummy as all fucking hell.

AGM is like Fate, they love to mock me and tell me my scumreads are town for amazingly bad meta reasons. Because NO ONE on this planet has ever changed their scumgame up or something.

Conclusions in next post, this is too wallish.

[GreyICE]

The Seraphlynch was dumb. We're in 100% agreement.

Unfortunately, you were voting Jahudo at the time. If you'd been voting Vi, frankly you'd be pretty town in my eyes (pushing a scum case over a non-scum one). Jahudo was just not going to happen though, and... why the fuck did you have such a strong town read on Vi anyway?

[GreyICE]

Okay, scumpair possibilities, in order.

First and Last VC of Day 2:

Vi

(6):

GreyICE,

LLD, Toasty, AntiTown, Kdub, Jahudo
Jahudo (2):

Vi

, CES
Lady Lambdadelta (0):

GreyICE (1)

: Rhinox

Toasty-CES

I'm fine with this one, but I'll be honest. Vi's treatment of CES still reminds me of town walking around a landmine. That being said, if Jahudo is town, and Toasty is scum today makes a fuckton of sense for scum CES. This entire game makes a fuckton of sense for scum CES.

Toasty-Jahudo

Feel this one less strongly after looking at VCs. But it makes Jahudo's refusal to hammer today make 100% sense.

Toasty-Rhinox

I admit to not having much of a town read on Rhinox anymore. Looking at the VC alone, it's really bad scum play.

And Vi chided me strongly for my Rhinox vote which, if we're assuming a 'don't bus, stick together' policy (which a massive unity between scumreads and votes is indicating),' well, that makes perfect sense. I mean what, I put Rhinox at L-6 at that point and Vi called me out? Could have been looking for another mislynch, but... I'd almost forgotten that.

That is just really odd. CES-Jahudo being town on town would be consistent with their level of play this game.

Jahudo - UT/AGM/Reckoner

This makes some serious sense if I'm totally honest. I have to many of my town reads out the window, but c'est la vie.

Jahudo-CES

I'll be honest. There's a strong sentiment in this town that CES should be some flavor of dead. If his play today was to come out and bus his buddy, that's psychotic. Not 'ballsy,' psychotic.

Toasty-Kdub or Jahudo-Kdub

Kdub honestly makes sense as the scum anchor of the Jahudo wagon for toasty partner, or with Jahudo and his activity level this game has been... non-optimal. We've all forgotten about him

I put this about where I put everything else not too much worth worrying about. If you slice and dice everyone else, look at him, I guess.

SCUM

Toasty
Jahudo
--------
CES
Rhinox
Kdub
AGM
--------
AntiTown
LLD

TOWN

Lines denote transition from strong to weak reads.

[GreyICE]

Number of times you voted for Vi: Zero
Number of times your vote followed Vi's: Seraphim wagon, GreyICE wagon, Seraphim wagon part 2, Jahudo wagon day 2.

Yeah, I think if you didn't think Vi was town, you hid it damn well.

[GreyICE]

CES, I think that you should battle this out day 3. Jahudo's play has been so epically terribly scummy that I'd almost rather lynch him than Toasty, but every bit of logical analysis I do says that Toasty is scum and needs to be the lynch today, because if he's town,

1) he's a shitty VT with a shitty bounty power (it's not even guarenteed to hit town, it's worse than mine ffs, and mine's a weak cop with upside)
2) his day 1 play was so bad and scummy that's its ridiculous
3) his remaining on me despite not thinking I was scum was so weird even Vi called him on it.
4) Vi's vote was so, so, so distancing/bussing if a Toasty wagon took off, and so not 'scum trying to push a case on a townie'
5) When Vi wagon started to get serious he found time to vote Seraphim.
6) ...

No, enough, he gets lynched today. You and Jahudo duke it out tomorrow,

[GreyICE]

And CES - you know why Toasty scum and Jahudo town looks really bad for you given today.

[GreyICE]

CES, I think that you should battle this out day 3. Jahudo's play has been so epically terribly scummy that I'd almost rather lynch him than Toasty, but every bit of logical analysis I do says that Toasty is scum and needs to be the lynch today, because if he's town,

1) he's a shitty VT with a shitty bounty power (it's not even guarenteed to hit town, it's worse than mine ffs, and mine's a weak cop with upside)
2) his day 1 play was so bad and scummy that's its ridiculous
3) his remaining on me despite not thinking I was scum was so weird even Vi called him on it.
4) Vi's vote was so, so, so distancing/bussing if a Toasty wagon took off, and so not 'scum trying to push a case on a townie'
5) When Vi wagon started to get serious he found time to vote Seraphim.
6) ...

No, enough, he gets lynched today. You and Jahudo duke it out tomorrow,

This post is lacking a vote.

You're right. That's really scummy of me!

Dun worry, vote will land before 11 PM EST

[GreyICE]

Fuck CES is so much more town than Jahudo. Read the ISOs people.

Vi was planning this miller bullshit from the first post. Breadcrumbing miller.

I love the question: "Did you really think I'd plan a complex miller breadcrumb as scum from the first thing day 1?"
The entire town: "Yes."

[GreyICE]

Works for me.

Vote: ToastyToast

GreyICE (6): ToastyToast, Rhinox, Vi, CogitoES, Seraphim, UncertainKitten
There's at least 2 scum on this wagon

Seraphim (7): Kdub, Ladyλδ, UncertainKitten, Vi, Toasty, Rhinox, Jahudo
There's at least two and possibly three scum on this wagon, guaranteed.

Jahudo - CES has a strong town intent in many of his posts.

You exist to irritate me, WIFOM me, and generally drive me insane.

But toast needs to be dead. This day has stagnated partially because Toasty is so scummy and we're just not sure he's scum. The flip determine things.

If Toasty is town:

Jahudo Partners:

AGM
Kdub
?

[GreyICE]

Toasty, I did my best not to push the town around today and left it so you'd get honest reads. I saved my analysis for the end of the day. You hit L-1 with very little input from me. That says to me that most of the town wants to lynch you. I blew nothing out of proportion. You've just played poorly. Assuming you're town and this isn't post-flip WIFOM, because that's always fun

I'll note Rhinox did much what you did in the CES-Vi blossom (unvoted with no vote). Your way was just scummier TBH.

Jahudo just actually hurts my eyes. Period.

[GreyICE]

Remind me what makes you confirmed town again?

Kittens

[GreyICE]

I swear unto god, if I was a vigilante, it'd just be "vi n1, Jahudo n2..."

[GreyICE]

I've seen more scum miller claims.

Also, claiming miller in response to a cop claiming is like "lolno."

[GreyICE]

As a miller I'd suggest something like, in the first five posts of the thread going:

"Hai guyz, I is miller. My name is Glen, I was the commander of X until I was framed by Vicious, and now I'm on the run."

etc. etc. etc.

Not waiting for the cop to claim and all.

[GreyICE]

*twitch*

If you fucking morons no lynch, we will scream.

[GreyICE]

damn it, if we get two more in here in the next hour we could wagon hop to Jahudo, I'm pretty sure Toasty thought he had been hammered (which... I thought I hammered him, so...)

[GreyICE]

Or CES!

Or AGM, but I don't feel that good about that one

[GreyICE]

damn it, if we get two more in here in the next hour we could wagon hop to Jahudo, I'm pretty sure Toasty thought he had been hammered (which... I thought I hammered him, so...)

You assume that, but he could be more observant than we are. >.>

But I'm willing to do a Jahudo lynch.

Do we have enough people?

Lets see. I'm pretty sure Toasty would be game, and we have you and me. And CES, but he was already voting. That's four.

If we really twilight hop to scum from town in the last hour of the day I'm nominating us for a... something.

PEDIT: We have enough for AGM, if it really comes down to it, but UT was just so 'oh my god all this shit has happened and I have no idea what is going on so I'll be cocky and a tad arrogant to cover it up' that he did in Brotherhood, and this AGM reads town-ish.

[GreyICE]

Hmm, AGM is frequently on 10-11ish. He's expressed strong reservations about Jahudo though which boil down to lolmeta.

I've had an opinion or two about meta...

[GreyICE]

...

Expound, LLD

[GreyICE]

I mean I admit the damn vote count analysis hurt my eyes on Rhinox, but... was it just that?

PEDIT: Suddenly, I'm game. Any objections from the audience?

[GreyICE]

Ugh. Gonna agree with the Fish here.

Vote: Jahudo

I just hate his ISO with a burning passion.

[GreyICE]

Whether this day last minute derails a scum lynch, or last minute causes one, it's gonna be fairly legendary.

PEDIT: If Jahudo, Rhinox, and Toasty are all town, uh... wut?

[GreyICE]

Vi, Toasty, Rhinox, Jahudo

Those are the votes that took Seraphim from L-4 to Lynch on day 1 with Vi wagon building steam.

Those are not 1 scum, 3 town votes.

[GreyICE]

For your team maybe!

[GreyICE]

JAHUDO

REALLY

WHO SAYS THE RIGHT LYNCH WAS A DAMN LYNCHER WHO WOULD HAVE LEFT THE THREAD OVER THE SCUM ASSASSIN?

NOT TOWN

[GreyICE]

Damn, you mean Seraphim could have achieved his win condition and left the thread?

What's the drawback again? Oh, I mean besides the fact scum got lynched day 1?

[GreyICE]

Ohhh you tease. "That Nacho shot feels like the Mina shot, doesn't it?"

Are you fucking with me here LLD?

If you wanna get me mislynched, gonna have to do better than that.

Vote: LLD

[GreyICE]

'cept I know a player who once took confirmed town into 2:1 LyLo over a replacement for a chronic lurker who had just lead a devastating mislynch and misvig.

[GreyICE]

Meta from UK? No.

I'm keeping my confirmed town status because of this:
UncertainKitten, Jet Black, Ex-Lover Bodyguard [Protector] was killed N1.

Wrong target today, LLD

[GreyICE]

Or it's a bodyguard ability that works on her Ex-lover. AKA me.

[GreyICE]

You mean giving the town a role

Where a successful vig shot on scum will randomly kill a town player?

NICE GAME MECHANICS, THAT MAKES SENSE.

FATE LOVES IT WHEN "GOOD DESIGN" RANDOMLY FUCKS THE TOWN

Like Vig shoots. Targets scum. Town dies because their role is designed SOLELY to get a town player killed INSTEAD of a scum player.

Lets assume Fate isn't ReaperCharlie, and go from there.

[GreyICE]

Oh okay, so the Ex-Lover thing had no mechanical purpose, and is flavor in a flip?

Or did Jet's ex-lover who owns a bar join the red dragon clan?

I'd never let Vi bus me with the way she was playing, she was obvscum all over the thread. I've learned since Zang, you bus obvscum to hell and get town cred.

I wanted her lynched on day 1. I pushed it over the Seraphim lynch.

You went "Seraphim, THEN Vi Nacho, dun worry!"

[GreyICE]

Huh, interesting.

Your argument that Vi is scum doesn't make any sense at all. Scum with Seraphim? Scum if Seraphim is scum? You never had any really solid reasoning there.

I can lay out exactly what made Vi scum. You never did. You were just CERTAIN the flip would be scum.

[GreyICE]

Yeah, 'cause I've never taken down a scumteam before:

Fate: 3 (GreyICE, Katsuki, Ghostlin)
Fate - Xemnas (Xehanort's Nobody) - Executed Phase 2
Zyrconium: 3 (GreyICE, vezokpiraka, Iecerint) + Ghostlin, but he claimed scum and used his factional kill before the vote
Zyrconium - Fuhito (Mad Scientist) - Executed Phase 3
GhostWriter: 3 (GreyICE, vezokpiraka, Iecerint)
GhostWriter - Professor Hojo (Mad Scientist)
vezokpiraka: 3 (GreyICE, Katsuki, Iecerint)
vezokpiraka - Ansem, Seeker of Darkness (Xehanort's Heartless) - Lynched Phase 5

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... lect=11588

I need Vi to hold my hand, LLD. Oh no. Don't think this is the case. It's funny, because I had a town read on you, but this argument doesn't come from a town motivation. You wanted to see if you could pull it off. If a good use of manipulation and kills could get confirmed town lynched.

BAD IDEAS R US

[GreyICE]

Two, actually, but that's neither here nor there. Other was a newbie, and it's easy to win newbies as scum.

You opposed my wagon rather poorly. I hit L-1 with your 'opposition.' It was quite weak.

You saw a mislynch, you went for it.

Why are you going for me today? Because I'm still alive and I'm confirmed town? Who makes that decision? Whose that crazy? Who shoots Nacho if not Jahudo? Who shoots obv-town Antihero over me?

You do.

[GreyICE]

It's the town motive, LLD.

Anti was as likely to be lynched today as me. He was just as town. And, unlike me, he might have had a power role.

Town-LLD would have considered it. You came out gunning for me. Why?

[GreyICE]

It really fucking is. I have no idea why I'm still alive.

It doesn't change the fact I'm confirmed town. You left AGM alive for EXACTLY that WIFOM brotherhood, you know that its valuable.

[GreyICE]

And you left AGM alive for exactly that WIFOM.

I have a huge town read on you. That's a good enough reason to leave me alive if I'm leading MISLYNCHES not lynches.

Toasty AND Jahudo were mislynches, at least if I think Toasty thought he was hammered, and I do.

[GreyICE]

WIFOM

Damn it.

If it's not toasty and it's not Jahudo, WHO THE FUCK IS IT?

[GreyICE]

Players

Cogito Ergo Sum
Rhinox
Lady Lambdadelta
GreyICE
ToastyToast
Kdub
AlmasterGM

Rhinox is obvtown imho. Toasty is town. Assume I trust my town read on you LLD.

Kdub? AlmasterGM? CES?

Hmmm

[GreyICE]

Here's where I am.

Toasty - town. I think the "post hammer" behavior combined with his general demeanor yesterday suggests strongly he's town.
Rhinox - town. I can't find a motive for scum-Rhinox to focus on one word in a fakeclaim PM. It makes no sense to me. If anything scum-Rhinox wouldn't want attention drawn to his fakeclaim if it was different from the real claim in any way. He might mention it offhand, but to obsess over it? No.
kdub - I want more input nowish, but running off day 1, he was town like hell.

~~~===~~~
CES - I have a town read.
LLD - Town read
~~~===~~~
AGM - again, town read.

You see my issue, I assume. But one thing has been bugging me, and that was Vi. If I had to characterize one thing about Vi's behavior day 1, it would be nervous. Why? Can't be me. Vi barely knows me, barely knows my games, and me flicking a few bricks her way would NOT cause any discomfort me thinks. One of her scumbuddies was making her hella uncomfortable. And Vi never really commented on the LLD wagon, except to finally sheepishly agree LLD was town.

In other words, I think one of Vi's scumbuddies was making Vi hella nervous. That says a HIGHLY unconventional scumgame.

That's LLD or CES. Of the two, I'm fairly sure I'm getting better at reading LLD. And I'm good at reading Vi apparently (NYAH TO KITTENS).

Vi reads like LLD was a scumbuddy. Vi reads like CES was a landmine that would blow off a leg.

[GreyICE]

But anyway, AGM is in a slot that is basically lurker fodder. Two flakes. Reckoner's 'analysis' on Toasty is (if toasty is town) the lamest thing EVER.

Popcorn: AGM

GET IN HERE AND CLAIM, CLAIMING IS HANGOVER MEDICATION

[GreyICE]

AGM is town.

My god am I glad I can read UT that well.

[GreyICE]

Anyway, various things that were making me feel bad about Toasty = scum yesterday.

1) Jahudo - despite being the second strongest wagon, he maintained a Jahudo town read. I don't see the scum-Toasty motivation there.
2) The "Townie" bit. Despite confirmed town asking him if the role PM matched his over Rhinox's, Toasty insisted it matched Rhinox - not me. This seems incredibly likely to come from a town motivation - he had Rhinox as a potential scumread. I just don't see the scum motivation for supporting Rhinox against me, even when he ostensibly considered Rhinox scum. I see scum nodding their heads and agreeing I'm right. Not you, AGM, you are used to my booby traps, but Toasty hasn't played with me much, and doesn't know I can and will leave little bombs lying around for scum.
3) Yes, the post hammer.

I of all people know that scum can fake emotion (or even channel real emotion into fake posts) but what's really lacking there is scum motivation. Heading towards lynch, he wasn't seeking to mislynch Jahudo, he didn't grab on to a piece of evidence to throw at Toasty, he answered honestly and stuck to his guns.

Speaking of which, it's why Rhinox is MUCH better than null. He insisted all day that I was hung up on something stupid.

I'll say it again - scum does not get hung up on the exact phrasing of their fakeclaims. They want the fakeclaim accepted, and they move on. Rhinox was completely hung up on one word in his role PM that I apparently didn't have. More to the point, once it became clear to him I was town, he accepted it as a moderator oddity and moved on. TOWN.

I'm just going to knock those two out right now.

The other two? :goodposting:

[GreyICE]

*grab onto a piece of evidence to throw at Rhinox

[GreyICE]

I think all of your arguments really underestimate Toasty. They all basically reduce to "well scum wouldn't want to do that." Isn't that the CORE of WIFOM? Scum DO have an incentive to engage in "town motivated" behavior ... so they APPEAR TOWN. Moreover, AFA I can remember, Toasty is a IRL friend of Andrius' and has been following along with mafia for long before he actually made an account. I'd bet money that Toasty has gotten a decent amount of coaching from Andrius (not necessarily on this game, but on how to play in general).

I've read Andrius' scumgame, and I lack this dark heart of fear that his expert coaching may have taught Toasty not to latch on to the nearest easy lynch.

WIFOM is WIFOM, but the fact of the matter is simple. Scum-Toasty had no reason not to push Jahudo. Or Rhinox. He was going the hell down, writing was all over the wall, and he kept insisting Jahudo was town.

Was the goal to cause a mislynch the next day? That seems so unlikely. Cause a mislynch today, flail your way out tomorrow if you can.

Town-Toasty has good reasons not to push people who are mislynches. He's trying to find scum. If he gets lynched, well, he didn't contribute to someone he had a town read on getting lynched.

I completely and utterly don't feel toast scum atm.

CES... oh, I wanna see his claim.

Kdub defended me like hell Day 1. That felt town. But finding reasons town is town is not hard when you know they're town, and since then he hasn't done exactly that much.

PEDIT: Vi was the scummiest person in the thread outside of Seraphim day 1. I wouldn't give Vi's coaching here worth a hill of beans.

Vi is probably incredibly dangerous town, and I'd hate to face her as scum, but in terms of scumgame? Don't see it.

Newbie scum, with their back to the wall, latches onto a mislynch of some sort, or scumplains all the way to the lynch. Time and again I've seen it. He really didn't do either. Given a last minute lynch change to Jahudo, he STILL didn't want to lynch Jahudo, even though he was almost certainly the only other option.

As I said, I'd flip quite a few other people before him.

[GreyICE]

Alisa-Townie [One-shot Hider]
I hide with someone in my bar.

Which makes NO SENSE as a bounty reward or as flavor or as anything, but there you are.

[GreyICE]

@Toasty, what LLD said. I wouldn't even find out which player Faye was.

Explain? You'd just be in a neighborhood with Faye without knowing who Faye was?

[GreyICE]

Scum RB. That's a good point.

PEdit: Yes. We'd be posting under Whitney and Faye.

In a quicktopic?

[GreyICE]

It requires activation, but I can do that at any time; no provisions for dead Faye are made; yes, in a qt.

So Fate made a mechanic where you have to log in and out of Quicktopic to post or risk modkill, requires 0.5 seconds to break the anonymity (just agree to post a specific phrase at start of day) and is more or less functionally identical to:

Claim: Catelyn Stark - Mason Recruiter. Each night, I can target one player to find out if they are Brienne of Tarth. I can't tell the difference between a non-Brienne target and a roleblock. If the person I target is Brienne, she and I become mason buddies and become town-confirmed to each other. I have failed to find Brienne of Tarth thus far. My targets:
N1 - Percy
N2 - xvart
N3 - hascow
N4 - Mikujin

YOU LOSE

Vote: CES

[GreyICE]

@GreyICE: I don't understand your objection here. Its no stranger than a one-shot hider.

It's much more mechanically annoying. Quicktopic doesn't like you having two names. You'd be very likely to have at least one post from "CES" or something in the topic, which would quickly be like 'jigs up' in terms of anonymity.

And then you have the fact it's functionally identical to a 'best fakeclaim' award.
Has very little thematic content (the person in question cheated Faye out of millions of dollars, they're not friends)
And is a weird ability anyway (Functionally it would make them masons, only the fact it exists alignment confirms them anyway) and you have... no.

Seriously, two townies with abilities that alignment confirm town? That's pushing a limit.

[GreyICE]

Heh

You know, that actually makes me sure you're town.

Scum can usually submit their other pals actions. And my bet is you'd have claimed the actions they submitted.

[GreyICE]

No.

My hider action is too dangerous for me to use if we mislynch, I mishide and we lose.

A neighborhood doesn't even confirm CES town.

[GreyICE]

Yes.

I'd kind of like to wait for more input from a few people.

[GreyICE]

Yeah it's this thing.

I have you pegged as a bit of a town read.

But you really need to give us more input into this game.
"Ok then" wasn't it.

[GreyICE]

No.

All we develop is if he's good at setup speculation.

Being someone who sucks at it so hard that I might as well be a neutron star, I consider that a null tell.

[GreyICE]

I mean seriously, if we had bounties, we'd confirm toasty instantly (since his bounty can't be scum with a 1-shot assassin and a lyncher), we'd confirm Faye is town, we'd confirm that CES has that ridiculous power, etc.

That's all he's speculating on. Unfortunately, I have this sneaking suspicion the bounty mechanic will never come in to play. Which would be kinda lulzy.

[GreyICE]

Okay, well if CES flips scum, your roleblock will be clearing town

at a rapid pace.

So I'll apologize tomorrow when there's no kills, okay?

[GreyICE]

BTW, you mind claiming it IF CES flips scum?

If he flips town, do whatever you want for WIFOM, but it would be very nice to know who we can rule out 100% if you die.

[GreyICE]

Huh.

Unvote

I need to think about this.

[GreyICE]

Yeah, and I need some flavor, or mechanics, or something.

This claim just doesn't make any sense.

[GreyICE]

Okay, quick claims analysis:

Victoria Terpsichore “VT”-Townie [Busdriver] - RHINOX

98% confirmed town. The Victoria Terpsichore = VT joke is so Fate it's not even funny. Mod gaming? Maybe, but Fate'd never waste that one on a fakeclaim.

AGM = 82% confirmed town
Playing chess with someone to jailkeep them is so silly he'd probably change it.

Kdub - if Faye Valentine isn't town, then who is? Also very townie play, etc.

Toasty - I'm sorry, still feels town AGM

LLD - Okay, so remember how LLD used to be suspicious of CES, and never mentioned Reckoner/UT except to agree he was town? I don't actually believe for her caliber of player that being totally pants is a town tell. I think someone is a role cop out there. Power roles have died night after night. LLD being that pants is just not natural.

CES - no matter how I cut it, having to create unique QT identities is ridiculous, and I'll hate Fate forever if it's true. He'll have no right to complain about [Redacted] - [redacted] - [redacted] if he put in something that pants.

[GreyICE]

Alisa-Townie [One-shot Hider]

Question: did your role PM use this format? Because I'm having trouble imagining how you'd mistake that for one-shot hider.

Yes. And the answer was I skimmed it and never opened it again until Fate corrected me N1.

@LLD: Nope. Could make you a scum enabler. Or your ability does nothing and the mod just fucked with us but good

Actually the person whose ability worries me the most in terms of game balance is kdub. But it'll take a second to go there.

I'm wondering if CES has a role that exists to balance Kdub.

[GreyICE]

That's not actually why I asked that question. I asked because you explicitly told us your role PM used a different format.

I have specific information for:

flavorname, role name [bounty reward]

all in one line.

Cool. I don't. I have flavor name, [bounty reward]

Unvote, vote: GreyICE

And explicitly told you differently yesterday, when I used it to test toasty's alignment.

But hey! Thanks for showing you're reading the thread.

[GreyICE]

Very discernable motive, CES. Wanted to see who would pick up on it, who would let it linger, who would walk into a trap.

You get run to L-1, and SUDDENLY remember something that I told you yesterday and was null when you were pushing Jahudo.

It's served its purpose indeed.

Vote: CES

Soooo much better reason to lynch than role speculation.

[GreyICE]

greyICE, what was the purpose of saying you didn't have a normal role on both Day 1 and Day 2 then?

Day 1 I seriously fucking forgot. And I don't bother to check these things much before claiming. I remembered who I was (seriously who forgets her) and that I was a one shot hider who hid with someone in her bar. I claimed 1-shot investigate (which Hider ROUGHLY is) as that had a higher chance of drawing the NK than a town hider, and also made sure that my target wouldn't get NKed for the 2-for-1 (because otherwise the game turns into 'see if I can breadcrumb my target well enough the scum can't find it but the town can').

Day 2 it was just to see who would play games with me. I maintain Toasty-scum would have HAPPILY sheeped my claim over yours at L-1. It's just such a scum way to alley suspicion/push a mislynch. "I match your PM too, aren't we good friends? Lets go get that Rhino who tried to lynch you all yesterday!"

PEdit: Town has a good reason to suspect someone who claims a 1-shot hider as a 1-shot cop? What would that be, pray tell? And do explain how my actions were in ANY way anti-town.

[GreyICE]

I didn't lie. I fucked up.

That's totally completely, 100% different. I really remembered my power being described as hiding with a person in my bar. I didn't remember it being a bounty.

What's the scum motive for counterclaiming my scumbuddy there? UK already called me 100% confirmed town. I could say I investigated someone and got an innocent, we could NK them later, and roll forward. Push Jahudo over Vi. Push Nacho for lurking. Push Rhinox for being dumb. Push you for being unreadable. There's all sorts of things a Vi-GreyICE scumteam could have done. Fuck, we could always leave Toasty alive and scumplain about Godfather WIFOM.

[GreyICE]

Very discernable motive, CES. Wanted to see who would pick up on it, who would let it linger, who would walk into a trap.

That's a horrible reason. You do not lie about the formatting of your role PM just because someone might respond to it at some point, especially if the town has a good reason to distrust you because you just claimed townie [one-shot hider] instead of one-shot cop.

It seems extremely likely to me that each role PM has Name - Role name [bounty power], so pushing the mislynch doesn't work because people can back up Rhinox. I wouldn't even expect that type of subterfuge from Toastyscum anyway even if it were useful.

The lie was the bit about not having a role name. Was the "anti-town" comment not about that?
I don't think what you did would've been a bad play for scum if you hadn't claimed not to have a role name. Not having to claim an innocent on Toasty (who was the obvious investigation target) could easily result in an extra mislynch (assuming Toastytown) and the switcheroo probably doesn't hurt you enough to overcome the conf. innocent status conferred upon you by UK and the sooner the game ends, the less likely we are to question it.
Give me one good reason you lied about having a role name.

At each turn your story has become more inconsistent today, CES. I was reaction fishing. It's fun to do. I can link you to plenty of games where I do it as town. I've claimed scum, misclaimed watcher target, fakeclaimed full jailkeeper as a 1-shot, etc.

If I'm confirmed town, why would I waste the opportunity by not reaction fishing?

What's the scum motive for counterclaiming my scumbuddy there?

You wanna go there? What was the scum motive for Jahudo-hyposcum counterclaiming Vi-scum possibility that you were pushing?

They both claimed after a cop claimed, AND after a possible miller retracted his claim. The way I saw it if Nacho's Jahudo case was good enough and Vi got lynched he was a very probable target for my investigation. Both claiming after they waited a while to see if there would be any counterclaim would ensure one lived as 'confirmed miller.'

Jahudo not heavily pushing Vi day 1 or 2 after counterclaiming Vi was just bad in my book. I'm sorry, but when I'm counterclaimed as town, my reaction is EXACTLY what I did on day 1 after Vi's hider claim - latch on like a pitbull and not let go. When Vi claimed 1-shot hider, the next person I voted for was AFTER Vi got lynched. NEVER before.

I was wrong.

[GreyICE]

Yes I did.
First, because when I PMed Fate: Hide: Toasty, his reaction was really fucking funny.

Then because I wanted to see what people's reaction would be to my change.

UK confirming me had nothing to do with me being a cop or hider anyway. Cop is never a confirmable role.

[GreyICE]

By the bye, Kdub quicklynching me is terrible. AGM and Toasty haven't even gotten a chance to respond to me.

I will agree to that. They were anti-town when Jahudo did them (fucking town or not, Vi should have been the day 1 lynch, and day 2 should have matured a little more - if nothing else, some more nacho posts could have saved his skin.) and they are anti-town today.

AGM hasn't even claimed his roleblock target.

AGM - If CES flips scum,

ROLEBLOCK TOASTYTOAST.

He is your #1 suspect, and if you don't do this and die overnight I'm considering him 100% confirmed town anyway, so you'd potentially lose us the game.

[GreyICE]

I think I see where this is going. AGM vs...

P.S. probably MYLO.

Yeah

I see exactly where this is going too.

[GreyICE]

Yes you would.

[GreyICE]

Sorry, I'm not scum.

Try again.

[GreyICE]

See the hole in your scumgame I've finally identified.

It's pretty big but pretty easy to overlook. You don't question yourself the right way. You just plow forward.

Town would be asking if the scum nokilled last night to create this exact situation no matter who AGM roleblocked.

I'm not actually sure that's not even the case right now.

[GreyICE]

It's the same hole as Fate. Whenever either of you is executing a plan while posting, I need to just lynch automatically.

[GreyICE]

Um, what, LLD?

There was a third party who automatically exited the game when scum was killed, costing us a lynch. That's a powerfully anti-town role.

We need some power roles to make up for that.

[GreyICE]

So scum
have daytalk?

Because otherwise no one planned shit with AGM.

[GreyICE]

Like really. There was no way that day evolved the way it did.

CES had a weird ass claim. Fate can now NO LONGER bitch about ANY ROLE AT ALL in ANY GAME EVER. Creating a brand new Quicktopic account for a bad single target neighbor thread that doesn't even confirm them town as a bounty power? That's fucking ridiculous.

[GreyICE]

But what makes me scum? That I'm confirmed town who survived two night kills while town power died? All that means is a Role Cop. Which would balance the scumteam quite nicely especially with Seraphim.

[GreyICE]

In other words, you lynched CES ONLY based on his claim?

Yes, LLD. Nothing CES had EVER done made ANY of us think he might be scum. At all.

I fucking wanted CES dead.
But Nooooooooooo.... UK told me it was just CES being CES.
Dx

Fuck, that's a Beefster mistake. Accusing someone of being scum because they thought that a person they claimed to think was scum was scum.

[GreyICE]

If it's you
Then it's kdub

[GreyICE]

Whatever, I will tell you this. It ain't you and AGM, because if this is a double bus, you are both fucking gods of acting.

[GreyICE]

This is going to be a long day...

QFT

@GreyICE/AGM: If LLD is scum, then who is her scumbuddy and why?
Also, yesterday I wanted LLD lynched. AGM, you called her town. Does that mean you agreed or disagreed with me yesterday?
GreyICE, why did you tell AGM to roleblock me?

If CES flipped scum, and AGM was the town roleblocker, he was a natural shot. That meant we'd have to play WIFOM about who he selected. With him selecting you, you would be confirmed town if AGM died. And he'd already expressed a lot of suspicion towards you. Going into today with two confirmed town and 1 scum would have made this endgame a breeze.

[GreyICE]

EBWOP: The above post is from when GI was using his "townier than thou; pope car" act. It is clear at this point, he is trying to make subtle posts that he can point back to and say "I SUSPECTED HIM HERE! SEE?"

In reality, what you need to read from this post is that

GI has a town read on KDub

and that it has been there

since day 1

.

Further, I have yet to see an explanation of how Kdub and I are linked as a scum pairing.

Through Edgar Allen PoE.

Rhinox is town. Vi was too quick to hop to his defense and dismiss suspicion, and his play has been pure town. Toasty is town because of the reaction to hammer. Both of you have lodged the other one in 'town reads I never talk about or talk to much.' So, Edgar.

[GreyICE]

"Rhinox is town."

Best reason ever.

I agree that he is town... Because you and AGM are scum.

But you're using PoE.

So tell me, how does one Town Read out weigh another?

Let me guess, that one is easier to lynch?

I'm scummy... because I've changed a day 1 read?

Why isn't GreyICE dead yet?

First off, because he's town.
Secondly, because there's quite a few scum on his wagon.
Thirdly, because besides Vi, I have yet to see someone post a half legitimate case.
So, convince me differently of 1, by doing 3, won't you kindly CES?

Oh fuck me.

@Kdub: You're good. I wanted to check something, and you're fine.

UNVOTE:

@Jahudo: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Why are you so terribad? HONESTLY? Like... gah! I have other ideas for who Vi's scum buddies are besides you... and you come in and ruin that with your posting. >.>

Scum List currently:
Toasty/Rhinox/Jahudo/CES
Rhinox doesn't get lynched today. He's 4th on the list really.
Jahudo and CES are high, but I'm wavering a bit.
VOTE: Toasty

Either changing reads is scummy, or it isn't. But don't give me shit about reads changing when this is the sort of flip flopping you've done to get to day 5.

[GreyICE]

Things that are getting to me.

1) No one suggested that the scum no killed last night if AGM was a town roleblocker to push him into this fight. Everyone like this 1v1 idea.
2) Kdub is waffling his way at LLD in the most scum-like manner possible.
3) Toasty and Rhinox are the only players that care about other people today.

[GreyICE]

@GreyICE: I kinda suggested #1, but moreso for the position. Scum wouldn't have known who AGM would have targeted, but if they felt they were safe they could have purposely started the argument. However, that seems too far-fetched. Add that with the fact that my top scumspects are involved in this argument, and I think we have at least one scum.

Not sure what you mean about #3

You are the only people doing anything to push at other people. Well Rhinox half heartedly, but at least the intent to ask the town questions was there. Kdub seems like he's sitting there waiting to toss his vote on one of the two wagons. I'm fucking tempted to just lynch HIM today for that. Like 'weee, lets see if (SCUMPARTNER) can pull this one off, but I'll hold my vote here.' Kdub, nice job erasing all the town cred from day 1 with turbolurking and about 4 posts today.

LLD is more or less just begging us for support and calling me scum.
AGM is in a tunnel, of course

[GreyICE]

Wait so I'm scum because I've changed my read on kdub
But I'm scum because yesterday ended way too quickly.

Care to comment on the hammer and 'intent to hammer' posts from yesterday, LLD?

[GreyICE]

So, 4 scenarios, which is more likely?

1)

Scum no killed to town-AGM would block a townie and initiate a 1v1 where both options = scum win.

- I didn't even consider this until the second time GI pointed this out. The first time he said it, I thought he was talking about scenario 2. I don't think this is very likely. There was a 33% chance assuming random that AGM would target 1 of the 2 scum anyways nullifying this scum gambit vs. a 16.7% chance that AGM would target the scum committing a kill if scum just went ahead and tried to kill.

The only way this even makes sense as a scenario is if GI is scum and another non-GI nk was performed, which would make us further question why GI has not been killed yet. But then as GI has pointed out, we're all ignoring this scenario, why would scum GI bring it to our attention? He wouldn't...

tl;dr: What this boils down to is that scum are twice as likely to get lynched by no killing if AGM is town vs. making a nk.

One is not random at all. First, there's 6 people in the game, so AGM has a 40% chance of targeting scum if he targets at random. Obviously he doesn't because scum can read his read list. If scum feel they have a high chance of not getting RBed, it's fairly good play not to submit the kill. So offhand, it's a 60% chance that you don't get hit anyway.

Second, if you do get tagged, AGM has to convince the town that he's town and you're scum. Call that 50/50, depending on which scum he hit and how the town feels. So overall, if it forces the town into a 1v1, it's a 20% chance of town even correctly lynching scum if we close our eyes to play and look at the math.

It's not a terrible idea for, say, a Rhinox-kdub scumteam or something, so I was surprised I was the ONLY person who even CONSIDERED it.

I agree though that LLD's reaction is WEIRD. No Lynch here is ridiculous.

Town-AGM, well, it's utterly consistent. He'd never consider it TBF.

[GreyICE]

LOL, because you didn't submit a kill. But he hit scum anyway.

That's fucking hysterical.

[GreyICE]

I did the same thing when I said I would flip a coin and send BV310 a PM to jailkeep two different people based on the outcome of the coin flip.

And I did. I was a 1-shot jailkeeper though, so my PM just confused BV.

As they say, don't play a player

[GreyICE]

LOL, because you didn't submit a kill. But he hit scum anyway.

That's fucking hysterical.

[GreyICE]

Dude, it's 100% true. She wouldn't lie in red.

She just left a small loophole that tells me exactly what happened. Your town-scum list had town in the bottom, they figured whoever you roleblocked, ONE of the two of you was getting lynched.

Which was one town lynch or two. A NL would let them shoot you to CONFIRM that the roleblock blocked a scum kill.

And that makes LyLo easy.

Regardless of alignment your RB did not prevent a kill

Because there was no kill to prevent[color]

[GreyICE]

@Toasty: DAMMIT.

@GreyICE - ...what?

It's taken a while, but when she's stressed I can read her. And she'd never lie in Red.

The goal was pretty much like I said, and what I figured would happen - you submitted a Roleblock on Toasty or Rhinox.

And then no one dies. So it becomes a 1v1 that consumes the town until it's fixed.

Only you happened to hit scum ANYWAY.

Tell me that's not lulzy.

[GreyICE]

GI: Mr. confirmed-"im the pope man," why are you not dead yet

In terms of speculation?

Role cop.

It seems likely that UK bodyguarded SOMEONE N1, and me as confirmed town to her seems like a likely pick. Then again, scum might have shot her to remove any powers she might have and because she was obv fucking town.

After that, the next two shots hit power roles, and we're swimming in a sea of vanilla.

Dunno if it's day role-cop or not, but the flavor fits bounty hunters, and the idea puts two power roles on the scumteam.

There's also the open question of what the fuck an "enforcer" is.

[GreyICE]

Okay, basic questions here.

AGM

- Whose LLD's partner here?
What gave you the scumread on LLD when you made your claim that made you gambit that way? That was simply the most dismissive read (which leads me to believe you) but what lead you down that path in the first place?
What are the odds the scum nokilled? Assuming it's 50/50 either way, even if you hit scum you have to question it. Why did you come roaring out the gates for LLD rather than sit back and report results?

LLD - Why did me and AGM shoot up in your suspicions? You'd expressed very little suspicion of Reck or UT previously.


I'm going to do some rereads. Sadly AGM's is already over, and it's told me... little. I am honestly going to have to meta reckoner, a word I shudder to say.

[GreyICE]

Vote: LadyLambdadelta

Yeah, #1669 = NO

[GreyICE]

Oh no. Oh noes. Oh 1669 was a scumclaim if I ever did see one.

[GreyICE]

Yes exactly.

That would exactly be the amount of reasoning that you've given as to why AGM and me are scum. Me because 'confirmed town doesn't live that long' (Well, unless you're aiming the shots, then that's a GREAT argument to have), AGM because... uh... AGM! No explanations, except 'he's the scum roleblocker.'

That'd be exactly the amount of reasoning you gave in response to his post.

That'd be exactly the amount your reads have changed over the course of this game.

I'm fairly sure the only people you've called town are the people who are currently scum to you, or the people who are nice and dead.

Kill Antihero over me? Yeah, you'd do that.

[GreyICE]

So maybe you could include a reason or two for one of those changes, rather than ATE?

[GreyICE]

Having a

natural

progression of reads is town. Like I'm having WITH YOU AND AGM. HOLY FUCK. Using AtE because your read progression is ANYTHING BUT NATURAL is FUCKING BAD. As is your response to AGM.

AND PRETTY MUCH EXACTLY WHAT I'D EXPECT YOU TO DO AS TOWN.

HOLY FUCK

UNVOTE

I HATE THIS.

[GreyICE]

A better player than many people suspect told me 'page fucking two' recently.

Okay, by page fucking two you look town as hell. You're BORING as scum. You're lazy, you push suspicion at people, you trade a few jibes in the thread. Maybe you buddy a bit. It's just fucking poor.

UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S BEEN YOU SINCE DAY THREE ON. And if you tell me meta I'm biting your head off, because if you try and sell me on your day 1-2 play being ANYTHING like it was days 3+, then I will laugh so hard that I cry.

It's like you replaced by an evil and annoying twin.

OKAY SO WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED?

Your interactions with Vi are, to put it mildly, full of fail. You realize you never asked Vi any serious questions, right? The read evolved from 'town' to 'scum' right about the time 'bus me' lights were blinking all over the Vi wagon, and at that point you wanted to lynch Seraphim FIRST. Which is a straight SCUM TELL since lynching Vi first buys you god knows what from Seraphim's powers.

BUT RECENT EVENTS HAVE TAUGHT ME SCUMTEAMS LOVE TO BUS AT STRATEGIC TIMES.

Oh wait, day 2 is a strategic time.

The UT slot is GARBAGE. It's nearly unsalvagable. The more I look at Reck's play the more it SCREAMS 'coasting scum.' Replacing out is the closest thing I see to a town tell, since I can see him not having time to reread, but I can also see him has not having energy to care. Reckoner hates playing scum, it's in his personality. He gets no thrills out of tricking people, and he was having no fun posting in this thread.

This is exactly how AGM drives lynches.

UNFORTUNATELY IT IS HOW HE DRIVES MISLYNCHES. HE'S LOUD AND ANNOYING.

Were I to lynch on GAMEPLAY right now, I'd lynch BOTH of you. Were I to lynch on interactions with known scum, i.e. none, I'd lynch BOTH of you

[GreyICE]

NO

THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL AGM IS SCUM WITH YOU

MY GOD

THIS IS STUPID

WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED ON DAY THREE?

WHY WAS VI NEVER WORTH ASKING QUESTIONS TO?

WHAT WAS GOING ON?

[GreyICE]

Were I to lynch on GAMEPLAY right now, I'd lynch BOTH of you. Were I to lynch on interactions with known scum, i.e. none, I'd lynch BOTH of you

Then what is this?

PROOF THAT LYNCHES DEPEND ON MORE THAN 'PLAYED A MEH GAME' AND 'DIDN'T INTERACT MUCH WITH KNOWN SCUM.'

[GreyICE]

GREYICE.

I SWEAR TO FUCKING GOD IF YOU FUCK THIS UP I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU.

LLD IS TRYING TO WIFOM YOU INTO A COMA AND TRICK YOU INTO VOTING FOR ME WITH PROMISES OF BOUNTIES AND AND SHIT.

Go read. Read. Read. Read. From the second this day fucking started she has been preying on the people she thinks she can manipulate, trying to get them to do her bidding, while simultaneously declaring all her primary opponents "SCUM" and refusing to argue with them. ITS LLD SCUMSTRAT 101.

DONT FALL UNDER HER SPELL.

Also, your argument that I drive mislynches by being "LOUD AND ANNOYING" is STUPID. Have you ever even seen me play scum? NO YOU HAVENT. So how about you do your homework before you make BLATANTLY WRONG ASSUMPTIONS.

OH SO YOU HAVE ANOTHER MO?
YOU'RE LOUD AND CONVINCING?

BUT HER RESPONSES TO ME ARE TERRIBLE.

[GreyICE]

GI, I made this post back on Day 2. Ironically, you did not answer it because it was LLD who was making excuses for you. There are 4 points in here:

/already voting grey

I asked about flavor because:

Anyway, I'm Alisa, Jet's old Girlfriend. I'm the "one that got away."

I have a 1-shot investigate,

due to contacts through the bar I own.

It will find members of the red dragon clan.

I have no bounty power. Most likely because I'm not a bounty hunter. Since the Red Dragon clan are not bounty hunters either it seems highly likely that bounties grant powers to town and town alone. Which is the reason I consider LLD cleared. Completely worthless past this point, but there you are.

It's a decent power, but not overwhelming, which is why I don't have a real problem claiming it. They can shoot me to off one cop investigation, or just cross their fingers and hope it misses. I'm using it tonight in any case, after which I will be vanilla.

1: he gave flavor when he claimed his one shot investigate that makes sense if he's a cop but not a hider. Or was that just made up flavor?

When we all thought seraph was miller:

...

Fucking goddamn it. Every way I wrap my head around it, this doesn't even make sense.

There is NO reason for a 1-shot investigate to come in a town with a miller. It's like 'haha, your already mediocre power is crappier.

2: Why would greyICE flip out and make a comment like this knowing he's a hider and not a cop?

3: When Vi gave her bounty reward, why didn't greyICE CC then instead of letting seraph get lynched and then CCing first thing today?

Had the night to get a story straight with his scum partners that they thought made sense?

And finally...

Well I was going to hide behind you [toasty].

But then Fate told me it was a bounty power.

Actually he was a bit more sardonic than that, but I suppose I deserved it.

4: Why would a hider attempt to hide behind one of his top scum suspects? He would be dead, and no way for us to know who he hid behind. Hiders can clear town, not confirm scum, except in situations which we were not in.

So there are way too many contradictions here. What I am missing? why is greyICE NOT scum?

You only answered to #3, and then accused me of rolefishing and threw some WIFOM at me in this post. You can forget about #1, what I really want to hear are your explainations for #2 and #4 that I never got.

Where was this when I was

getting bussed

?

lolscumslip?

#2 is actually worse than you think. Hiding behind a Miller would KILL ME. So there was no way a third of the game would have been players who kill me if I hide behind them. I'm surprised there was even one.

#4 - Trading me for a scum is a 1-for-1 trade. I'll always 1-for-1 trade town with scum. Think about if we all did that, we'd lose what? 3 townies? Even a 2-for-1 trade loses us 6 townies. A 1 shot hider will ALWAYS be used by me to investigate for scum. Period.

[GreyICE]

What? Hiding behind a miller would totally NOT kill a hider...

Fate lacks an agreement with your position, and his word matters a lot more than yours here. I checked by PM, but we can do it again.

Fate: If a player inspects as a member of the mafia, will they kill a hider?

[GreyICE]

Okay, quick question.

We're POSITIVE this isn't town on town?

I'm asking both people participating.

Because there is an AWFUL lot of no shits given from the rest of the town.

[GreyICE]

Then again, there's been no hammer, so I guess that's pretty much right out.

Seriously, kdub, Rhinox, what's the story?

[GreyICE]

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

Dude, this is like from day 1.

I'm gonna beat you with a hammer.

[GreyICE]

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

[GreyICE]

I MEAN COULD YOU CLAIM SCUM IN THE THREAD ANY HARDER

DEAR LORD

YOU NEVER EVEN CHECKED YOU'RE JUST THROWING SUSPICION ON ME

HOLY FUCK

[GreyICE]

#4 - What I was saying was,

I don't think we would have been able to deduce who you hid behind based on your posts from D1.

So it wouldn't have been a 1 for 1 because you'd have been dead with no way for us to be able to figure out why. Try again?

you sure telegraphing your investigate is such a great idea greyICE?

ONE POST

YOU MANAGED TO EVAPORATE A TOWN READ IN ONE POST

AND IT WAS A PRETTY STRONG ONE

AND YOU TURNED IT INTO A SCUMREAD

DO YOU REALIZE HOW IMPRESSIVE THAT IS? QQ IN THE QUICKTOPIC AS YOU DIE

NO WONDER I'VE BEEN KEPT ALIVE FOR DAYS.

[GreyICE]

IT'S ONE THING TO TUNNEL ME FOR FIVE DAYS STRAIGHT
IT'S ANOTHER THING TO DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING EXCEPT TUNNEL ME TO THE POINT WHERE YOU ARE BLATANTLY CONTRADICTING YOURSELF
PLEASE DIE IN A FIRE IF YOU A TOWN
IF YOU'RE SCUM GO DO SO ANYWAY

[GreyICE]

Not only did you not answer my question and go on to RAGE ATTACK MODE to deflect from what must obviously be a good point,

BUT

HOLY FUCK MY "DON'T TELEGRAPH YOUR

INVESTIGATE

WAS WHEN WE ALL THOUGHT YOU WERE A FUCKING COP NOT A GODDAMN HIDER

you just fucked up GI.

HAHAHAHAHA

SCUM CLAIM COMPLETE

TOWN WOULD HAVE STOPPED TO THINK WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE PROCESS IF A HIDER FLIPS AFTER TELEGRAPHING AN INVESTIGATE.

1) Did scum kill him?

Fuck no. Hiders are bulletproof.

2) Was his investigate target killed?

Fuck no.

3) Oh look. Scum.

You FLAIL.

CAUGHT RHINOX, YOU'RE CAUGHT

[GreyICE]

There's no WIFOM.
As a 1-shot hider I will ALWAYS aim for scum. Are you seriously this fucking bad as town?

As for the fucking PM - prove you have five brain cells. Go read day 1, then tell me.

[GreyICE]

Find where on day 1 scum. Go on, do it. Quote it to me.

[GreyICE]

They're scum. Oh yes.

Vi is scum, vote Vi.

CES made first useful contribution of game by agreeing with me. Should do it more, would make him much less scummy.

Waiting for a PM from Fate.

TOASTY WILL BE INVESTIGATED IF FATE FAILS ME

JAHUDO NICE QUICKHAMMER, SCUM, WE SHALL FIND OUT WHAT YOU ARE HIDING

You can't find ANYTHING in my ISO that hints at my night action plans, Rhinox?

Anything AT ALL?

What the fuck?

[GreyICE]

3 - wait, a 1 shot cop that KILLS you is crappy with a FUCKING MILLER? Yeah, yeah it is, Rhinox. How does that make no sense?
4 - I didn't get an answer until after the thread was locked because Seraphim was hammered at 500 mph.

It was pretty easy to figure out my course of action - Jahudo if millers didn't kill me, toasty if they did. I was GOING to confirm which it was when Fate answered the PM, but hammer came down FAST.

But this is all just crap to try and push a mislynch.

[GreyICE]

And more to the point, Rhino head, what's scummy about any of this?

Your bitching seems to be 'it wasn't obvious enough to catch the breadcrumbs when we were submitting the kill night 1' not that 'GreyICE is likely to do all of that if he was scum just to set up an elaborate fakeclaim that just happened to be confirmed town by UK.'

It's just whining about theory on proper play as a 1-shot hider and shit.

[GreyICE]

The only inconsistency is when I mistook my bounty power for a real power. I'm sorry about that, but that's what happened. I have NO IDEA why I'd fakeclaim that when I could just say I copped Toasty or something.

Other than that:

1) I had a pro-town reason for claiming cop as hider:
- Increased chance of getting Night Killed (i.e. greater than zero)
- Decreased chance of double kill (scum aren't looking for my breadcrumbs)
- Better reads
- Miller claims (if hider revealed millers as town, which afaik they normally did).

2) I clearly breadcrumbed my hider targets. I changed my mind on Vi because Vi was such enormous obvscum at that point that I just wanted Vi dead. I still thought I could shift Seraphim wagon, I did NOT see Jahudo's hammer coming.

3) I did receive the clarification PM from Fate that I said I sent in AFTER THE DAY ENDED. I assumed with a dead hider, anyone could ask the same question in the thread and he'd provide a mechanical answer since this ain't a bmod (HEY FATE REMEMBER THE POISONER PMS? CLARIFY HOW YOUR NONSTANDARD MECHANICS WORK, KTHX).

4) I was CERTAIN RDC was scum. Why? They killed me for hiding behind them. What sort of hider role (outside of a bastard mod) kills a hider for hiding behind town? That's obviously not a flavor cop.

5) What scum motivations are there to do any of this? Again, I'd just stick with my 1-shot cop. You can't say I ironed it out in the QT night 1, since I'd have had to fake the hider breadcrumbs and the PM the day before. So it's basically insane.

There. That is as rational as I can make this. I want to scream, because I still don't see any reason to

tell the truth

about being a hider in the situation I was in.

[GreyICE]

If GI is scum, he has to be scum with AGM, not LLD.

The contradiction that he thought he found wasn't a contradiction at all, but he latched onto with so much certainty that it seemed like scum trying to strong arm me into backing down rather than town who really thought I was scum. It didn't seem like town would jump to the conclusion he did so quicky, seemed more like scum who got nervous I might be changing my mind about voting LLD.

Thats the general answer. too frustrated to rehash the specifics right now. Scum is either AGM+GI or LLD+Kdub/toasty. I will only vote for AGM or LLD today.

Rhinox, answer #1727.

I am frustrated. I am frustrated that you don't even read your own posts. I am frustrated that your theory requires outlandish garbage that you don't even want to address. I am frustrated you think Toasty was in any way sincere in that post (put that post under 1/10th the scrutiny that you put everything I say in this thread - how does it hold up?). I am frustrated and maddened by the fact that despite the fact you want to lynch AGM or LLD you are only interested in poking me.

And why? If I'm scum, and AGM is town, you know how easy it is for me to lynch him if he hits L-1? Unvote/Vote. That's it. As scum, my vote being on LLD early would give me a good position for tomorrow if I'm bussing, and does exactly nothing to stop me from switching to AGM if we'd need to hammer.

But you're

STILL ONLY INTERESTED IN ME.

I mean that's it. You're more interested in me than the two people you want to lynch from. Do you understand how mind numbingly bad this is, town or scum? If I'm scum, everything you're reading right now is PURE WIFOM (Do I want you to vote LLD because she's town? Do I want you to vote AGM because you think I'm scum on a town wagon and not scum on a scum wagon? and so on and so forth). If I'm town, and I'm wrong, what are you doing to figure out the right wagon?

It's fucking horrible play if you're town. And I've had a town read on you for days. So yeah. I'm fucking frustrated.

[GreyICE]

Of course it's not happening. I'm town.

I'm pointing out to Rhinox how fucking horrible it is to be spending all of his time on ME when he wants to lynch one of YOU. My posts as scum are industrial grade WIFOM, and he thinks that if he determines I'm scum that'll help him find the right wagon?

[GreyICE]

Of course it's not happening. I'm town.

I'm pointing out to Rhinox how fucking horrible it is to be spending all of his time on ME when he wants to lynch one of YOU. My posts as scum are industrial grade WIFOM, and he thinks that if he determines I'm scum that'll help him find the right wagon?

Isn't saying "My Posts as scum are always WIFOM", WIFOM in itself?

At best, it's self meta.

At worst, you're lying.

Either way, it's a scumtastic scum tactic. :3

See I do know you, and I know you make much, much more effort to understand people than this.

Assume:

rhinox believes that LLD or AGM is the lynch.

If

: I am scum

Then

my posts do not accurately indicate who my buddy is, since I would be attempting to obscure exactly that.

If:

I am town

Then

I may still be wrong.

Therefore:

it is crazy for town-Rhinox to spend more time on me than both of you.

[GreyICE]

Oh for fucks sake. This is ridiculous.

Am I some evil scum mastermind who planned a bus of a buddy on day 1, carried it through 100%, got confirmed by UK through super secret shenanigans, and then managed to lead this thread into chaos and disorder while my scumbuddy CEASED TO FUCKING EXIST?

Or am I so bad that it's easy to distinguish my buddies from a quick read through?

It goes back and forth, back and forth, depending on what's useful for the argument at hand.

And your evidence that I'm scum? We mislynched CES and Jahudo, and nearly lynched Toasty. You were on two of those three wagons, I was on two of those three.

Other evidence? Well AGM is scum, so I'm buddies with him. And AGM is scum because he's buddies with me.

It doesn't even make any sense. Why isn't my buddy Kdub? Well, apparently it's not. Why isn't it AGM-kdub? Well apparently you've decided it isn't. Is toasty town? You barely know. But you reach out and grab onto things to use.

[GreyICE]

Ex post facto, you said that before the RB claim.

[GreyICE]

Lets do it then. Lets break down every reason you've presented in the thread.

Spoiler:

Vote: GreyIce

You aren't dead.
I'll rectify that.

As for the GI vote, I'm not letting anyone who has been labelled confirmed town, live 2 days past when they become confirmed.

Grey is scum.
AGM/Rhinox/CES are scum with him.
Grey dies today.

Vi and GI crossbussed on Day 1. This was designed to create massive town reads on Vi, and make him unlynchable for a while to come.
GI was placed at L-1, and was almost lynched but for UK's "confirmed town speech"
Remember that Vi was still alive for N1, when UK died.
Vi must have realized that with GI now confirmed town, and with me tunnelling him, that he was done.
So he killed UK, to let GI keep his confirmed town status, and tool the fall.
GI has not died at night since, instead with the scum favoring Nacho and Antitown kills.
Why isn't GI, a "confirmed town" dead? Because he is scum, and Vi is one intelligent mother fucker.

GI YOU ARE FUCKING SCUM.
I'M NOT EVEN ARGUING WITH YOU TWO ANYMORE. I DON'T NEED TO CONVINCE YOU TWO. YOU'RE BOTH SCUM.

Rhinox, I shot down your GI arguments earlier in the game based upon the GI confirmed town theory.
I got suckered in by that, and it's partially UK's fault.
But believe me when I say this. He's no longer confirmed town, and AGM(Who was UT) is his scum buddy.

THIS IS YOUR REASONING

THIS IS EVERYTHING THAT MAKES ME SCUM THAT YOU'VE PRESENTED IN THE THREAD

THIS IS YOUR ENTIRE CASE ON ME

Your case is different? I challenge anyone, ANYONE to find one minute where she used solid reasoning and tangible facts. I challenge anyone, ANYONE to find for me one interaction with me that suggests she might be questioning this 180 degree reversal. Anyone.

[GreyICE]

1+2) How about... the last... one... I... mention... in... the...thread? Is that a good sign? How about that Rhinox? Is that a good sign?

3) My reaction was MAINLY to TWO DIFFERENT people claiming Miller in response to a FUCKING COP CLAIM. If you don't think that's scummy as fucking hell, then I have news for you. Actually, what about Vi's reaction to my cop claim made you think "oh, Vi's scumbuddy just claimed cop, Vi will come forward with the miller gambit now!"

4) Yah, 'cause it was irrelevant.

5)

As far as I'm concerned, all bets are off with this game. Anything is possible.

Which is why I can be scum with LLD... OH WAIT

You say there is no reason to switch your claim from cop to hider, but I don't immediately see a reason not to either.

I believe I have some valid points against you, points that you do not want to address. I believe the town response would be to accept my valid points and try to argue I'm coming to the wrong conclusion as an honest misunderstanding, rather than trying to prove my valid points are invalid, deflect, call me scum, rage, and ad hom. You won't strongarm me into backing down at this point. The more you try, the stronger my belief becomes.

...
...
...

Rhinox, I mean this in the best possible way. Go take a step back from the thread, and think about what you're doing here.

You have no valid points. I've addressed everything you've said. Apparently claiming Miller as scum is an outlandish gambit you've never heard of (I've been in one other completed game with it on this site, and it happens fairly regularly). Claiming 1-shot cop, then revealing it was a 1-shot hider and using this to counterclaim your scumbuddy (who claimed knowing FULL WELL you'd do this) to ensure scum is lynched rather than town is a perfectly rational thing that I'd do all the time.

You state AGAIN that I don't respond to your 'valid points.' While quoting my FUCKING response.

And everything you say to me when I take the time to respond? You just say 'well that's irrelevant.'

Well guess what Rhinox? You're frustrating as fucking shit.

Now go step back
Look at my interactions with Vi
Look at how Vi reacts to the cop claim
Look at how Vi reacts to the hider counterclaim
Look at how everyone else who is not you reacts to that
Then you come back here and tell me that that was a scumbus.

Make your 'valid points' again.

All you do is whine and whine and whine. I don't even have a fucking clue anymore whether its scumplaining or just one of the worst town performances I have ever seen.

And if you don't like me insulting you, I don't like the fact you suck. So we're even.

[GreyICE]

Well I can't say I am surprised that happened, but I actually hammered on the townie hoping scum would keep me alive so I could fight more. I was really trying to crack open this game.

TOLD YOU HIRAKI

TOLD YOU HE WAS DOING IT SO WE'D KEEP HIM ALIVE BECAUSE HE WAS ONTO SOMETHING AND HE WANTED TO SEE WHO ATTACKED HIM FOR THE HAMMER.

[GreyICE]

All you do is whine and whine and whine. I don't even have a fucking clue anymore whether its scumplaining or just one of the worst town performances I have ever seen.

And if you don't like me insulting you, I don't like the fact you suck. So we're even.

I don't care if you insult me personally. I care if you do it rather than respond to me in a genuine manner. As you said, I don't know if you really think you're the shit, or if you're scum manipulating the hell out of us. Lets just say I wouldn't exactly be nominating you for paragon of scum hunters scummy for this game either, so the feeling is mutual.

3)

My reaction was MAINLY to TWO DIFFERENT people claiming Miller in response to a FUCKING COP CLAIM.

If you don't think that's scummy as fucking hell, then I have news for you. Actually, what about Vi's reaction to my cop claim made you think "oh, Vi's scumbuddy just claimed cop, Vi will come forward with the miller gambit now!"

your reaction, post #637
vi claims miller, post #790
Jahudo claims miller later.

WHEN YOU REACTED, YOU ONLY SUSPECTED SERAPH AS A MILLER, VI AND JAHUDO HADN'T CLAIMED YET. FOR FUCK SAKE AND YOU'RE SAYING I'M THE ONE NOT READING MY OWN POSTS.

THIS IS THE SHIT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

THIS IS WHY YOU'RE MAKING THIS GAME HELL FOR ME.

YOU SAY I'M PLAYING LIKE CRAP, AND THEN YOU DO SHIT LIKE THIS AND I'M THE CRAZY ONE?

MY REACTION TO THE ENTIRE MILLER NONSENSE WAS "THIS IS ALL A LOAD OF HORSESHIT"

IT WAS A BUNCH OF CRAZY CRAP THAT DROVE ME INSANE. WHO CLAIMS MILLER IN RESPONSE TO A COP CLAIM?

IT DIDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE BECAUSE I DIED IF I HID BEHIND RED DRAGON CLAN

I STILL THINK FATE'S MECHANICS MAKE NO SENSE BUT THERE WE ARE.

[GreyICE]

Some more internal dialogue
D1, we lynch Seraphim. I suggested we go after him or GI, then the other. Called out for chaining lynches, but GI gets to L-1. Ultimately we lynch the lyncher. I don't get killed because the flip implicates me. Instead, UK dies for having information about GI-town.
D2, UT completely disappears. Vi is out in the open, lightly attacks me, and gets taken down on all sides. GI had said it himself: He wouldn't be surprised if Vi was planning out the whole thing as an elaborate scum-play. Vi lynched. Nacho is NK'd; nacho claimed to have a lot to say about Jahudo. So, Jahudo, who CC miller, gets lynched at the last moment. However, not before I get put to L-1 and a sudden switch to a town read (on me). Antitown is a wild-card. He comes in occasionally, hard to track his thought. I'm not NK'd because, being perhaps the newest player, I can be controlled. GI-AGM know I have scum reads on both of them, and killing me would implicate them.
D4, we have a mass-claim. Mass-claimed used to take out CES, who also was for a Jahudo lynch. He was, quite frankly, and easy player to take out. Arrival of AGM meant people needed to hear from AGM before they had a read on him.
No kill, conveniently right after a town-roleblocker claim. LLD asks for it when she says "great, now agm will come and say he roleblocked scum." Sure enough, they target her.

It just..makes sense. The connections are there, the thought process is there, the confidence is there. I will wait for AGM, as Kdub has requested, but I think I know where my vote is going.

Unvote:No Lynch

D1: Ultimately we lynch the wrong person against every call I make to lynch scum.
D2: We lynch scum like we should have D1
D3: We don't lynch you, which is apparently... scummy.
D4: Cogito Ergo Sum (4): AlmasterGM,

ToastyToast,

GreyICE, Kdub

So I'm scummy for initiating a lynch that you wanted... and LLD drove the wagon move D3...

Huh.

Vote: LadyLambdaDelta

[GreyICE]

Lets do it then. Lets break down every reason you've presented in the thread.

Spoiler:

Vote: GreyIce

You aren't dead.
I'll rectify that.

As for the GI vote, I'm not letting anyone who has been labelled confirmed town, live 2 days past when they become confirmed.

Grey is scum.
AGM/Rhinox/CES are scum with him.
Grey dies today.

Vi and GI crossbussed on Day 1. This was designed to create massive town reads on Vi, and make him unlynchable for a while to come.
GI was placed at L-1, and was almost lynched but for UK's "confirmed town speech"
Remember that Vi was still alive for N1, when UK died.
Vi must have realized that with GI now confirmed town, and with me tunnelling him, that he was done.
So he killed UK, to let GI keep his confirmed town status, and tool the fall.
GI has not died at night since, instead with the scum favoring Nacho and Antitown kills.
Why isn't GI, a "confirmed town" dead? Because he is scum, and Vi is one intelligent mother fucker.

GI YOU ARE FUCKING SCUM.
I'M NOT EVEN ARGUING WITH YOU TWO ANYMORE. I DON'T NEED TO CONVINCE YOU TWO. YOU'RE BOTH SCUM.

Rhinox, I shot down your GI arguments earlier in the game based upon the GI confirmed town theory.
I got suckered in by that, and it's partially UK's fault.
But believe me when I say this. He's no longer confirmed town, and AGM(Who was UT) is his scum buddy.

THIS IS YOUR REASONING

THIS IS EVERYTHING THAT MAKES ME SCUM THAT YOU'VE PRESENTED IN THE THREAD

THIS IS YOUR ENTIRE CASE ON ME

Your case is different? I challenge anyone, ANYONE to find one minute where she used solid reasoning and tangible facts. I challenge anyone, ANYONE to find for me one interaction with me that suggests she might be questioning this 180 degree reversal. Anyone.

Nice case LLD.

[GreyICE]

LLD, you know every post you made in the thread. Find the good solid reasons to vote me in them. Don't call it cherry picking when you know there's nothing else in your ISO but a vast wasteland of nothing when it comes to your scumread on me.

Toasty, 24 hours elapsed between your vote and the hammer. During that time, you made 5 other posts on site, including ones in another game that night, that confirm you had ample opportunity to say something before the hammer. Lame excuse is fucking lame.

[GreyICE]

You called CES scum. You wanted Jahudo dead. And now I'm scum for being on those wagons.

And you get Seraphim to your credit.

Remember Beefster LLD? Calling someone scum for killing someone they supported the death of? Yep. I know you remember it, you used it in Camden.

So I'm scum for supporting the death of people... you wanted dead?

By the time I had gotten to this game, the hammer was done. And it was a quick hammer, you can't deny that. The 5 posts were all relatively around the same time, as I tend to go on site, comment on every game, then leave because I have other things to do.

Toasty Vote:

Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:16 pm

Posts in:

Mini 1138 - Candy Zoo Mafia:

Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:17 pm

Battle for Olympus

Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:39 pm

Open 295 -- Island Paradise Mafia:

Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:42 pm

Hammer Vote:

Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:54 am

That looks like almost 7 hours to have your say. You were able to post elsewhere. Anyone can check your profile and view your post history to verify that.

PEDIT: lol

[GreyICE]

My motives are to lynch scum. I am point out that if you had:

I voted CES because he had a terrible claim. He then got hammered before I could say anything else. I was also on the Jahudo wagon, and it was quite apparent I preferred something else.

"Something else to say" you had more than ample time to say it. So don't come crying that you didn't have time when you posted in 3 games over 7 hours and could have posted "Unvote... I have more to say before day ends."

[GreyICE]

Again, you are zoning in on something that is irrelevant to my case. Whether or not I had time to post something doesn't matter to my case. I'm just saying that the day should have lasted longer. I had no intention of un-voting a scumread, but I should have had the luxury to ask CES more questions. It was quick, and we got little information out of it for that reason. Besides, if you look at my player-vote connection post, the CES day is the day I use against you the least. So why you're attacking that one

instead of the others

is beyond me.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p2995185

Is that truly what I'm doing?

I'm pointing out the entire thing there is pretty much bollocks. All the reasoning you presented is just poor. `

[GreyICE]

What is this shit about me driving the wagon Day 3?

You fucking rode that shit to the bank, and I followed you blindly like a fool because of confirmed town status.

Oh gimme a break. About the only thing I did, deliberately, was push Rhinox off limits because he was really town (even if he is really ANNOYING town) and seemed like the perfect sort of scum target to pick at while not doing anything.

I DELIBERATELY didn't take a leadership position to generate reads.

[GreyICE]

Rhino is Raivann of this game.

Rhino, put together a list of all the reasons LLD has given that me and AGM are scum. Consider how many were true before today.

Now go look at Vi interactions with LLD. She poked me, nacho, UK (my god UK), but LLD?

Did Vi ever ask LLD Why LLD thought Vi was scum? And push it? Vi wanted 10 paragraph essays from me - and I delivered. LLD "just kinda knew" and Vi "just kinda accepted that."

[GreyICE]

That...

...

What?

[GreyICE]

Okay. Toasty voted AGM.
I voted LLD.
Rhinox was leaning towards LLD
Kdub was leaning LLD

Not that I fucking lover her play, but no longer quite as happy as I was yesterday.

[GreyICE]

Uggghhhh

It doesn't make sense for LLD+? Scum to shoot Toasty. Toasty was still a likely mislynch.
It doesn't make sense for AGM scum to shoot Toasty. Shoot Rhinox, and wait for someone to throw down a vote on LLD.

And one of the two of them is confirmed scum.

[GreyICE]

I'm gonna go beat my head against the wall now.

[GreyICE]

AGM, yesterday was mylo. It took 4 votes to lynch.

In order for you to be quick hammered by a scum team... the scum would have to be Kdub/Rhinox.

That's not a pairing. Sorry. Rhinox and Kdub aren't scum together, so I don't live in fear of a quickhammer from the two of them yesterday.

...

...

And me/kdub or me/Rhinox is impossible? After you spent yesterday certain that I was scum?

[GreyICE]

If you switched your vote to AGM, I would immediately unvote.

I'm online enough to prevent THAT.

Of course my partner would vote first there, but you can't unvote if I hammer, and it's just a matter of me saying "We need to hear from [Rhinox/kdub]" waiting for them to come online, and then have him post some thoughts, immediately post "Really?" And watch my partner go "Really, Vote." Then I post "Vote"

And that's that.

No one can really go about preventing those. Coordinating three scum can be a bitch, coordinating two is v. v. easy.

[GreyICE]

It's DEEP WIFOM sadly.

Basically, the only thing it rules out is an AGM/LLD scumteam.

It's an okay shot for AGM to take because it removes a player who would vote for him.

It's an okay shot for LLD to take because it cursorily looks like a good shot for scum-AGM to take (in reality, having Toasty come out and vote him in LyLo again would just confirm an LLD/Toasty scumteam).

Lemme look at this game again.

[GreyICE]

It is not humanly possible
That on day 1 Seraphim went to lynch over Vi
Without more scum on the Seraphim wagon.

Vi

(3): Seraphim, GreyICE,

Nachomamma

Jahudo

(1):

CogitoES

ToastyToast

(1): Untrod Tripod

Untrod Tripod

(1):

Antitown

Seraphim

(7): Kdub, Ladyλδ,

UncertainKitten,

Vi,

Toasty

, Rhinox,

Jahudo

No.
Fucking
Way

Kdub
Ladyλδ
Rhinox

Must contain at least one scum.

You are seriously telling me six townies lynched Seraphim on day 1 over Vi, LLD?

[GreyICE]

Mislynch pushes:

GreyICE (5):

ToastyToast,

Rhinox,

Vi,

CogitoES,

Seraphim,

UncertainKitten

(L-2)
Seraphim (7):

Kdub

, Ladyλδ,

UncertainKitten,

Vi,

Toasty

, Rhinox,

Jahudo

ToastyToast (4): Kdub, xRECKONERx, Lady Lam, Rhinox (L-1)
Jahudo (5):

CES

, Lady Lam, GreyICE, Toasty,

Antitown

(

Rushed

)
Cogito Ergo Sum (4): AlmasterGM,

ToastyToast

, GreyICE, Kdub

Scum Lynch:

Vi (6): GreyICE, LLD, Toasty,

AntiTown,

Kdub,

Jahudo

This is a town imploding on itself. Kdub looks a lot like the lurkerscum taking advantage of this.

Holy hell this one is ugly.

[GreyICE]

/not hammering

[GreyICE]

Read the dead thread.

My lord the Rhinox hate.

All of which was apparently justified.

[GreyICE]

But he was obvtown and I stand by it. UK, if you can't read people like that as town... jesus.

AGM shot EXACTLY the person he could NEVER shoot to get me to lynch UK Which didn't matter because Rhinox drops his vote ITT.

[GreyICE]

*lynch LLD

[GreyICE]

Well, dead thread doesn't like me.

Can't say I blame em, but can't say either Jahudo or CES was a bad lynch either.

So... whatever.

[GreyICE]

Rhinox

, I don't hate you. I agree with a lot of what you're saying. My problem specifically was time and again, I answered you in what I really felt were true, honest, full answers, just to have them pushed aside.

If you don't see the advantage to what I did, consider this - it gave me a strong town read on you, helped me get a town read on Toasty, and condemned Vi to death. That worked fucking well for a bit of wordplay (and I really did think all along I was a hider, sorry).

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p2994140


I'm sorry, I don't know how else to put this. My breadcrumbs on where the hider was going was incredibly incredibly obvious to the point where I was worried that I was giving the gig away.

I voted for LLD myself, so I'd be a damned hypocrite to get too mad at you.

And now that the game is over, and we can start the MD discussion:
I WILL ALWAYS USE A 1-SHOT HIDER AS A COP ABILITY.

No I wasn't going to use it on Vi. Vi was 100% pure scum. That'd be suicide for no purpose whatsoever. I was going to use it on someone who was 80% scum.

Vi... uh... I dunno what to say. You were playing a good analytical game, it's just when I started to parse your analysis it started to fall apart. Really badly. Like I'd read an entire post, and summarize it, and it'd boil down to "X is less townish." and be 5 paragraphs long. I'd really like to play with you as town sometime, but my god were you driving me insane.

Fuck, I know this wasn't my greatest game, and I've lost enough LyLos to not hate you for it. It does chaff a bit, but I know you put a lot into it.

LLD

... I have no idea why I was scum. You wanted Jahudo dead as much as me, and CES was a mess.

CES

I understand the concept that you can be read through your vote. I will say this - when your vote days one and two is on town over scum, time and again, you'll be read as scum.

Fate

God that neighborhood idea stank and I hope you never use it again. Anything that involves the words 'log out of quicktopic' can go screw off and die. Other than that, the moderation was great for the first few days and good up to the end.

[GreyICE]

And now that the game is over, and we can start the MD discussion:
I WILL ALWAYS USE A 1-SHOT HIDER AS A COP ABILITY.

Yes.

I don't mind that you tore me apart. I had a hard time getting into this game and it has been a long time since I've been scum. I did my best with what I had. Driving you insane was a bonus that provided some measure of payback.~

Meh... honestly, most everything you said about me in the deadthread was accurate. So... well, choke it up and I'll try to play better next time

[GreyICE]

That's not my concept at all, GI. I won't deny my scumhunting was off, but that doesn't justify my lynch. If you're looking to absolve yourself of all my responsibility, I'd suggest blaming it on Kdub's quicklynch.

Oh for fucks sake
I'll take responsibility for Jahudo
Or pushing Toasty
But you were scummy and there's no real way around that.

[GreyICE]

Also, I can't understand why people didn't take one look at AGM's screaming death steamrolling strategy, and call it scum right away >.<

...

Uh...

That was pretty much your strategy for most of the last two days

[GreyICE]

Okay, this is a bit of OMGUS

But why was I scuuuuummmmmmm

I asked and asked and asked and just never ever knew

[GreyICE]

Shit yeah I really should have caught that LLD. Thats a huge my bad. Only way kdub wasn't scum after GI didn't claim was if I thought you could be scum with AGM or GI, 2 options I had already ruled out. Wow I'm slumping worse than I thought. Thats something I shouldn't ever have missed.

Endgame woulda been really interesting. LLD vs AGM 50/50 vs Rhinox vs Kdub 50/50 with GI needing to make the right choice on 2 50/50's as confirmed town 2 lylo's in a row. woulda been epic

Dude

You were confirmed town to me.

UK is even screaming in the dead thread about how I should be suspecting you.

I mean I'm not 100%, but I'm not 0% either.

[GreyICE]

I'm not 0% either.

The above statement is a lie.

QQ

</3

[GreyICE]

Okay, this is a bit of OMGUS

But why was I scuuuuummmmmmm

I asked and asked and asked and just never ever knew

Because you came off as extremely arrogant. I already said my view on you was definitely flawed because of how angry I got early on. I

wanted

you to be scum, and you used your whole 100% town status the way I think scum would use it. Not to mention that you were very much involved with CES, Jahudo, Seraphim, and the push on me.

Yeah but
I was involved with arguing
Seraphim was exactly what he said
And we should lynch Vi

Jahudo pissed me off all game. He claims non-RDC, my role PM said RDC kill me, Fate confirms millers kill me. And his gameplay was... uh...

[GreyICE]

@GI 1852: yeah I understand how you feel now knowing that you're town. I actually lost track of the point I was trying to make which is why I rage-unvoted AGM. Since we're in the answering unanswered questions phase, can you give me a better answer for how this post makes sense: iso 70: you've claimed cop, but your really a hider. You think seraph is a miller, so you rage about how crappy a 1-shot cop role is with a miller, but you're really a hider, so the rage doesn't make sense, because you didn't find out if you died if you hid behind a miller until later on. No matter how logical you could make it sound that you as scum had no incentive to switch your claim, I was always stuck because you never directly answered my question as to why you would react like this in this situation. I thought maybe the answer would be that you were just acting that way as part of the cop claim gambit, but you never actually answered and I didn't want to feed you the answer. I always felt like the no direct answer meant you were hiding something.

Regarding how to play a hider theory: yes I agree, a hider is a cop, should be played like a cop. But cops don't investigate their top suspects who they're trying to get lynched IMO. It was clear you were breadcrumbing. I'm not THAT retarded. But my point was never that you didn't crumb, it was the fact that you had multiple crumbs combined with the revelation that you were a hider and not a cop like previously thought that woulda made the whole situation very confusing had you showed up dead the next day. As for targeting scum or clearing town, idk I guess I'd shoot for more middle of the road players and hope to clear a townie that people are unsure about, someone not likely to be lynched or nked, so when the info was revealed later in the game it would be game breaking. I woulda had a list of targets D1 that included CES, UT, AT, and Kdub.

oh by the way, think you can share Fate's reaction PM to you wanting to hide N1 now?

oh and I understand the not knowing your bounty was an honest mistake, but why lie about not having townie in your role pm?

Fate had about a 0% chance of including a full cop in the setup. I had a sneaking suspicion there was at most one one-shot cop. And I smelled none of the usual uncertainty that comes when someone claims a similar role to someone else (aka two one-shot cops). So there was a miller who either did NOTHING, or KILLED ME when I had a fucking ONE SHOT in the game? It's beyond weird. It is STILL beyond weird. Fate confirming that the miller did nothing but KILL ME made it even weirder.

And yes. One-shot hiders investigate their top scumreads who they're trying to get lynched. Period. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS. Vi wasn't a scumread anymore, Vi was confirmed scum. I was going to hit Toasty.

The townie thing was a reaction test. It got me you = town, Toasty = town, how was that a bad reaction test? I was confirmed town. You getting hung up on it was bloody inexplicable to me now and then.

As for the PM, I think I deleted it, but it was more or less "Are you REALLY that stupid?"

[GreyICE]

In response to GreyICE's PM of

Hide: Toasty

Hopes he is joking for the sake of humanity: GreyICE

I swear unto god, I really don't read my role PMs
All that well.

I did think I'd remembered most of that one... I kinda had. Just one critical small little detail.

[GreyICE]

Yeah, consider my lesson learned. I honestly thought I'd remembered it though.

I probably would have still claimed what I did, but at least I'd have breadcrumbed it better.