Cowboy Bebop Remix [Endgame]

[Vi]

Waking up to Eternity

It is what it is

And this is how we know it's a Fate game.

Let's get this madhouse hate war started.

So, as you all know, I fly off the handle at things I perceive as stupid. Instead of that, I am quite simply going to ignore whatever absolutely DICKTARDED thing is said that would normally set me off. So remember kids, if I'm not responding to your points, that probably means you're a fucking idiot and should reconsider how you use your brain cells. Or consider using them in the first place, really.

But I'm sure we won't have that problem with THIS playerlist, right~?

Vote: UncertainKitten

(L-3)
for promising to lurk when under pressure.

I am town this game.

UK and I are never the same alignment.

Therefore, it can be said with certainty that UK is scum.

VOTE: UK

Any questions? No? Good.

Unvote: UncertainKitten
Vote: Lady Lambdadelta

(L-6)
So... You're

guaranteeing

that you're not the same alignment as UK, but merely

implying

that UK is scum...?

Also, since nobody else wants to bring it up, I will. Are we going to do anything at all with the bounties?

[Vi]

@Seraphim: ...I should be ignoring you, but this is too perfect.

What's disturbing about this is who's hosting that image. (Hint: me)

@Vi: Never said I'd lurk, merely that I wouldn't answer batshit insane points. It seems to be the only way I'll avoid getting really irritated at people.

You answered mine

Lady I Know I'm Going to Start Abusing Non-Alphanumeric Characters In A Few Pages - I've never read Umineko but I know what the colors mean.
Even so. The question is why that third sentence isn't in red.

Bounties - Right now I don't think there's any reason to deal with it, but later on it might be worth bringing up. It depends on how the game goes.

I really hate to setup speculate but who is most likely to be scum? I was thinking Vicious might be possible but who the hell would he be partnered with? BTW, I have a vague amount of flavor knowledge, I've watched a few episodes of the show but that's about it, though I do know SOME things.

I think this would be best answered around when the bounties start coming into play.

[Vi]

[in response to Seraphim]

Doubt it.

[That cowboy character]

sucks to much to be scum.

More or less this.

I'm going to assume that LLD is correct, given her username. (>")>

Unvote: Lady λδ
Vote: Antitown

(L-6)
That post felt really weak. (or, First Post Mind H4x)

New Rule: No small text. Copying and pasting that shit pisses me off to no end. It's not funny, it's not cute, and it's history in this game.

*Goes mad with Power*

The last time mods went mad with power we wound up with unannounced cults

[Vi]

Re: Cat and Witch with Bounties and Names - I think it's under control. However, the softclaiming should probably stop really, really soon.

Re: Antitown vs. Unreal Tournament - UT's first post didn't look like it was trying too hard.
Katsuki tried the "pretty colors" accusation AND a needless shout-out.

[Vi]

Nacho - To borrow a phrase from a different anime, WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK I AM?
The mechanic was public knowledge before the game and I'm Prof. Paragon; of

course

I have thoughts on it.

My thought going into the game was that it was a useless distraction. If the bounty winds up on Town, we would have to mislynch to get it. Not likely to be helpful. If the bounty winds up on scum, it's not like they're going to claim their role AND scum.

Then after I got my role I thought that it might not be a bad idea to give it a try. Yes, it would be difficult to prevent at least one scum from being on the wagon, but the Town-side rewards might very well be worth it... and we could certainly grill whoever jumped on the wagon that we didn't want. Luckily we don't have Lowell-types ITT.

For us to actually lynch the bounty without any kind of luck factor, we would need to mass nameclaim. That's why Seraphim fishing for unsafe claims would be best answered when the bounties started to come into play. (The claim of role-related info seems dubious tbh.)

And THAT is the unstuffed version of "right now we can probably sit on it; later on we can bring it up".

There was an element of damage control in sweeping it away, but that more came into play later.

---

Jahudo 51 makes me twitch.

I don't think Toast's line in 66 is a slip.

GreyICE - The first thing we'd need is a bunch of Town reads, so for the time being I'm going to put a "no" on that plan. There's also the issue of whether the bounty is likely to be scum, so etc.

Cat - Was my answer in 46 satisfactory?

Seraphim - What is this "I do feel somewhat more comfortable with my vote" about? I had to look to see that it was on UK.

I'm not following GreyICE's Rhinox vote. This isn't like Objection! Redux.

Unvote: Antitown
Vote: Seraphim

(L-4)

U. Vote Count

Cogito Ergo Sum (0):
Vi (2): Jahudo, Nachomamma
Rhinox (0):
UncertainKitten (1): Seraphim
Jahudo (0):
Lady Lambdadelta (2): Untrod Tripod, Antitown
GreyICE (0):
ToastyToast (3): Ladyλδ, GreyICE, CogitoES (L-4)
Antitown (0):
Kdub (0):
Untrod Tripod (0):
Seraphim (3): Kdub, Toast, Vi (L-4)
Nachomamma (1): Rhinox

Not voting:
Trying to go against the flow of all things: UncertainKitten

[Vi]

Bounties - Right now I don't think there's any reason to deal with it, but later on it might be worth bringing up

This is what I was referring to. She brings up the concept of bounties, and then immediately says that there's no reason to talk about them now.

This is actually a good point. If the idea was to avoid softclaims as UK suggests, why bring up the bounty topic when no one was talking about them (potentially leading to softclaims) in the first place.

The idea wasn't so much to avoid softclaims, but to see if anyone else was thinking about the mechanic.
I just got out of a game where someone else had better ideas than me about the game's core mechanic, so etc.

For us to actually lynch the bounty without any kind of luck factor, we would need to mass nameclaim.

Not mass nameclaim, only the listed bounty for the day, right?

That depends on how likely you think it is that the scum will claim to be the bounty target.
Actually, now that you mention it I'm not sure if mass nameclaiming is better than just having the bounty claim (or not).
Even so, we can put that question off until later.

Rhinox, do you have any suspicions at this point?

[Vi]

@Vi: Clarify please. Was the statement Nacho quoted intended to shut down DISCUSSION of the bounties?

Not really. However, there was definitely a consensus that was more or less what I was thinking and nobody was interested in discussing it, so answering my own question was closure in a sense. The topic didn't spark conversation until LLD 39, after I was done with the subject.

I'm not sold on LLD-scum. Probably the worst thing about her is this recent jump+push on CES. While I haven't played with CES before, I'm pretty sure he's deliberately playing to be an easy target. But I'm not sure as scum she would have made post 39.

I see where Vi is getting her twitch from 51, because she actually voted someone else for the same reason.

UK gets it.

[Vi]

@Vi: why would ANYONE try and play against their win-con like that? If he's town, he's providing nothing in the form of content or reads for the town.

N

I'll be watching raocow,

I'll be leaving so a student can take a quiz early. We might get the same amount of intellectual fulfillment.

Rhinox - Antitown and Jahudo have mostly made posts that are trying to look Town/friendly more than anything else.
UT, CES, and even you are at least upfront about being contentless.

[Vi]

Oh mafiascum, always a surprise to come back to. <_<

CES, what's going on?

[Vi]

Oh mafiascum, always a surprise to come back to. <_<

CES, what's going on?

Why are you asking him? Read the thread yourself, and make your own conclusions.

Spoiler: I actually have read the thread.

@Vi: Yeaaaaaaaaaaah

I thought I was supposed to make this awesome pun before you said that.

[Vi]

Rhinox - Antitown and Jahudo have mostly made posts that are trying to look Town/friendly more than anything else.

You came to that conclusion from just one post?

Yes, and the posts that have come afterward from both of them have done nothing to change my mind.

LLD 109 - Who is "we"? And if you're including yourself, why are you not voting with me?

Also, how do you take C∴S's accusation that you are a "bandwagoning ho"?

GreyICE's 105 is not the clear posting that was advertised, because I can barely tell what's being said. Seraphim is definitely correct about smelling rhetoric, because ICE looks like he's trying to build himself up to be this Big Deal that he's really not.

I find it strange that you

[Toasty]

townpoints to whoever has Andy's role just like that, because I don't think it has any alignment indication at all.

When did he do this?

Seraphim 126 and 128 really don't look like they're coming from Town.

LLD 134 - Okay, your name for the rest of the game is "Bandwagoning Ho".

Everything after that - Waiting on C∴S.

---

Seraphim and Bandwagoning Ho - What do you think of the wagons you have on youse?

LainICE - Thoughts on Toasty?

[Vi]

EBWOP: To elaborate, what he's trying is to argue accepted claim practice is SOMEHOW rolefishing. Yeah. No.

There's a reason that asking for a claim after voting someone to L-1

shouldn't

be accepted claim practice.

U. vote count impending.

Cut by Bandwagoning Ho - Where is Nacho in this?

[Vi]

(Unofficial) Vote Count

Cogito Ergo Sum (0):
Vi (1): Jahudo
Rhinox (0):
UncertainKitten (0):
Jahudo (0):
Lady Lambdadelta (4): Antitown, CES, Seraphim, Nachomamma
GreyICE (0):
ToastyToast (0):
Antitown (0):
Kdub (0):
Untrod Tripod (0):
Seraphim (4): Kdub, Vi, GreyICE, Ladyλδ
Nachomamma (1): Rhinox

Not voting: ToastyToast, Untrod Tripod, UncertainKitten
Trying to go against the flow of all things:


With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline: Thursday March 24th

[Vi]

@GreyICE - I've certainly been withholding my opinion for the last few pages because I've been waiting on C∴S to tip his hand. At this point the chaos is dying down, so I suppose there's no reason to hold back.

Bandwagoning Ho's new name aside, while I don't agree with some amount of her accusations (I have my own reasons to dislike Seraphim ) I don't see scum motivation in the fervor.

Spearophim, as mentioned before, looks less than kosher given the taunts I brought up earlier and questionable reasons for doing questionable things. However, Seraphim's ardent guarantee that he won't be lynched is interesting enough that it's worth putting him on hold for a moment.

So really the two major focal points in the game aren't what I'm looking at right now, compared to a few others.

One is you, GreyICE. As soon as Bandwagoning Ho went up, you completely vanished from public eye in spite of being the main force behind the Seraphim wagon. Most of your posts so far - insofar as I could understand them - have been disagreeable IMO:
*Rhinox vote - Doesn't describe the situation in which Rhinox made that vote at all.
*

Bounties - Right now I don't think there's any reason to deal with it, but later on it might be worth bringing up

This is what I was referring to. She brings up the concept of bounties, and then immediately says that there's no reason to talk about them now.

Hmmmmmmmm.
Done that one as scum when I know something is bad for the town, but want someone else to take the fall.

Vi:

What do you think about the idea of having the bounty named in Fate's post claim, then deciding who our collective strongest town reads are and having them lynch the bounty to see what falls off that wagon? We have to do this day 1, period, because the scum:town ratio will almost certainly never be lower.

LLD:

*huggles*

'kay, no, seriously, some bounties can be achieved with as little as one lynch. If this mechanic benefits town, then it is likely to benefit the most on day 1. Are scum power roles more damaging than town?

Spot the obvious contradiction in intent.
*Posts afterward are both confusing and overaggressive. Rhetoric (which most people define as "impressive-sounding but saying nothing") is all over the place.

I pick on people who are scummy. You're scummy. You get picked on.

Rhetoric. The art of speaking clearly. Logic. The art of thinking clearly. You are exercising neither.

Logic has no place in a game of Mafia my ASS. Logic is what I like to operate on.

It looks like a facade.

This recent post has me a bit confused, in large part because I don't expect scum (sans Goofball) to post that half the game is Town. I'm waiting for Jahudo to come back and finish what he started before making a judgment in that direction though, and I'm not sure how UT made the Townlist at all. Unless you're willing to enlighten me?

I was baiting CES because it looked like he was playing both sides of the Seraphim/Lambdadelta war. I'm disappointed that he didn't take the bait.

Those were the two people I was hoping to see in the last few pages.

Preview edit: I leave for an hour and suddenly GreyICE becomes the cool wagon, so to speak. >_> Separate catch-up post incoming.

[Vi]

jumping onto a wagon and asking for a claim is idiotic at best, scum-tastic at worst. Can you guess why?

Your use of OMGUS and "hypocrisy" as "scumtell" just continue to cement my vote for you. Your buddy GreyICE can wait.

I've seen scum get away with using this argument entirely too many times. I don't like this post at all.

What is "this argument"?

What's your take on GreyICE?

Nacho: WTF? Where did that LL vote come from all of a sudden? You were pushing a case on Vi, then switch to LL with no reasoning. The fact that nobody other than UK commented on your lack of reasoning also bugs me, in fact Seraphim is using it to continue to push the LL case without questioning the vote itself.

Nacho's vote wasn't reasonless.

UT - I dislike how you're trying to justify yourself by comparing yourself to Antitown. Offhand I'm not interested in voting Toasty.

Rhinox - Why LLD?

The deflection to Antitown from two people now is starting to look sketchy. If AT flips scum I know where I'm going.

Scumhunting becomes rather difficult when every single post I make becomes another tumor on your convoluted "case". Thanks for clearing up any indecision I might have had concerning my vote on you.

So Bandwagoning Ho is

making

you tunnel on her?

No real change from previous opinions.

---

Cut.

Good to see you joining the game.

I've been here, tyvm.

[CES']

lurking is too suspicious, IMHO, to be scummy - which seems like an oxymoron, but he's so obviously pushing agendas that he's either REALLY BAD scum or town who is doing something cute.

I'm the one who made that argument the first time; see previous quote response. <_<
That's not to say I can't get him to post what I'd like to read on his own terms.

Rhinox vote - Not so. The world didn't start collapsing until after Rhinox made his first vote.

Bandwagoning Hoes on Bandwagoning Ho - I've already given my opinions. She looked like she was trying way too hard from the beginning through her CES vote, except for post 39 which I didn't think would likely come from scum. I was initially frustrated with her vote+claim request, but after reading into why she did it the only things that bother me about it are things that don't matter (i.e. the validity of some of her arguments vs. Seraphim).

Question: If LLD hasn't done one scummy thing, why the earlier?

As for me being the counterwagon, what? You wanna wagon me, do it with style. Fuck, Seraphim hasn't even voted for me yet! Cue Seraphim going "oh noes, I will remedy that right now!"

I would actually love to see that. (Cut: And more than just the fake version.)

But since you asked,

Unvote: Seraphim
Vote: GreyICE

(L-3 or something)

Would you like to enlighten me on those Town reads you threw out, and whether you're still standing by your Seraphim vote?

---

Irrelevant wisecracking.

Just sayan.

As opposed to a Super Saiyan.

The game's just not as fun without you being pissed off :/

Speak for yourself; I like this new life the cat's on.

I'm about to pound my head into a wall.

What, how can you refuse when she gave you a :3 ?~

[Vi]

When you start asking questions that are either relevant or unanswered, please let me know.

[Vi]

At least I'm up front and telling you your questions are useless, instead of pretending they don't exist.

Actually the question about the wagons might be worth answering, but it'll wait until the morning.

[Vi]

Nacho's vote wasn't reasonless.

Perhaps not. If there was a reason, he did not post it. Better?

...
If I'm seriously the only person that sees it, then whatever, I'll play along.

Questions are awesome and all, but I don't see where a lot of this is going,

1) In any case, what is your view of the early game actions of LLD?
2) Were they protown?
3) What is your opinion on the wagon and the Seraphim counterwagon?
4) If LLD is scum and Seraphim is town, what are the scummiest votes on the Seraphim wagon?

1) I've already answered this question.
2) I've already answered this question too.
3) I haven't answered this question, which I pointed out.
4) I don't think LLD is scum and Seraphim is Town, nor have I given any indication that I do. In addition, you also haven't given any indication that you think LLD is scum and Seraphim is Town. In addition, I'm not going to do extensive analysis based on two flips we don't have (yes I know what I said about people deflecting to Antitown). This question is useless.

Asking you where your reads came from and whether you still find the person you're voting scummy is somehow useless or leading to a dead end? Yyyyyyyyyyyno.

But let's not argue with scum.

UK

, your thoughts on what GreyICE is doing.

I overslept; I'm out of time for the morning.

[Vi]

Furthermore, what really irritates me is the way he tries to pass of his scum tells as "jokes". If you believed him every time he said something you accused him of was a "joke", you'd think he was doing a stand up comedy act or something.

My issue is somewhat related to this.

it's only six pages and I'm at L-2.

This might be a new record.

Personal record obviously, fairly sure that other people have gotten lynched quicker.

Also, GreyICE, what about Toast, man? I'm sure you had like eighteen scumtells on him maaaaaan.

Whether the last sentence is a joke or not, this isn't something I would expect a Townie to say. Nor is the earlygame flavorscumfishing.

That and what I mentioned in my last catch-up post.

---

Vi vs. Pre-Bandwagoning Bandwagoning Ho -

Bandwagoning Hoes on Bandwagoning Ho - I've already given my opinions. She looked like she was trying way too hard from the beginning through her CES vote, except for post 39 which I didn't think would likely come from scum. I was initially frustrated with her vote+claim request, but after reading into why she did it the only things that bother me about it are things that don't matter (i.e. the validity of some of her arguments vs. Seraphim).

You even quoted this, but then you were ignoring all but one line of that post anyway so etc.

Vi not analyzing the wagons - You asked that question at freaking 11 at night.
I overslept and ran out the door this morning.
I JUST got in and this post is the first (and maybe last) thing I'm doing online for a while. I just finished eating dinner at this sentence.

The only polite thing I can think of to conclude this is: Etc.

From the way Vi is directing attention towards LLD and not doing the same for Seraphim, I was logically assuming that she felt LLD was scum and Seraphim was town.

I had no idea what you were talking about here, so I looked.

LLD 109 - Who is "we"? And if you're including yourself, why are you not voting with me?
Also, how do you take C∴S's accusation that you are a "bandwagoning ho"?

GreyICE's 105 is not the clear posting that was advertised, because I can barely tell what's being said. Seraphim is definitely correct about smelling rhetoric, because ICE looks like he's trying to build himself up to be this Big Deal that he's really not.

(...)

Seraphim 126 and 128 really don't look like they're coming from Town.

LLD 134 - Okay, your name for the rest of the game is "Bandwagoning Ho".

Everything after that - Waiting on C∴S.

---

Seraphim and Bandwagoning Ho - What do you think of the wagons you have on youse?

There's a reason that asking for a claim after voting someone to L-1 shouldn't be accepted claim practice.

U. vote count impending.

Cut by Bandwagoning Ho - Where is Nacho in this?

This post is almost understandable as "focusing on LLD" except I was trying not to pass judgment on the wagons here.

Bandwagoning Ho's new name aside, while I don't agree with some amount of her accusations (I have my own reasons to dislike Seraphim )

I don't see scum motivation in the fervor.

Spearophim, as mentioned before,

looks less than kosher

given the taunts I brought up earlier and questionable reasons for doing questionable things. However, Seraphim's ardent guarantee that he won't be lynched is interesting enough that it's worth putting him on hold for a moment.

I DUNNO THIS LOOKS A WHOLE LOT LIKE I'M CALLING LLD SCUM AND SERAPHIM TOWN

Scumhunting becomes rather difficult when every single post I make becomes another tumor on your convoluted "case". Thanks for clearing up any indecision I might have had concerning my vote on you.

So Bandwagoning Ho is

making

you tunnel on her?

THIS IS TOTALLY ME SAYING SERAPHIM IS DOING NOTHING OUT OF PLACE

Thank you and good freaking night.

And while I'm here.

Huh.

Fair enough.

Hope there's a reason for what you're doing.

Finish better have fucking fireworks and a brass band, is what I'm saying.

Those questions weren't lazy, I was getting somewhere. And where I was getting is what to think of Vi based on Seraphim and LLD's alignments. And if LLD is town and Seraphim is scum, which is what I believe, then Vi?

Doesn't look good.

What the hell are you trying to convey here?
"Y'know, if you don't play my game, I'm going to put you on my

bad list

."
If you think I'm scum, you don't say "I'd watch out, I might find you scummy if you keep this up".

That's not how suspicion works.

That IS, however, what you do to put up bad-play lynches.

---

I sympathize with Vi on this issue. I was basically in your shoes last game I played with her, so.

And remind me of your alignment in that game.

Hey wait a minute.

@Vi: I'll admit the latest barrage of questions felt careless. As in "attempting to look proactively pro town real quick here", but kinda missing the fact things had been answered. Sorta like he was trying to pump up his vitals with the serum stuff in Trauma center, but somehow missed. Except in this case his vitals were his townness. I still like Sera scum better, but GI is not outside the realm of possibility.

<post talking to but showing no suspicion of GreyICE>

<another post of the same>

What is this?

---

I see a Jahudo post and I'm too spent to worry about it right now.

[Vi]

Jahudo is doing his best to completely dance around giving a solid opinion of GreyICE altogether, and I want to know why.
Jahudo 296 says that he gave an opinion of GreyICE before, which is true... barely.

Hey Kdub, is there anyone you actually want to see lynched right now?

Seraphim is not correct that Toast 292 is the most useless post in the thread (although it does look like an "I don't know what to post" post), because GreyICE 303 beats it.

I stand by her directing more attention and more questions to LLD, although I'll accept that it comes from pretty much the same reason I am directing more attention at Vi than Seraphim

"I was absolutely not wrong in the accusation I made earlier that was blown out of the water, but it's actually not that good an accusation at all because I'm doing it too".
The rest of the post is just a lot of words that do nothing but go with the flow.

THANK YOU Rhinox 304. The nonresponses from GreyICE and Toasty make it even better.

Bandwagoning Lady - What's wrong with Rhinox?

Nacho--

And I agree that Sera's speculation looks uncharacteristic, but I don't see how its suspicious.

Maybe Sera knows some inside information.

I think his talking looks innocent right now, not malicious or opportunistic in any way.

Why would you ever bring up something like the bolded up?

I think a better question is why the "maybe" after--

I have role information regarding the flavor and who the scum are. I'm not saying anymore.

The reactions to CES are priceless
Hey Nacho, does CES' response to your Jahudo vote change anything about your opinion?

I'm pretty sure I said this before, but I don't have a "meta" on CES so much as an expectation that he knows what he's doing.

---

I'm on

LA this week

.
My thesis has to get done by next-next Thursday, and I'll have all the time I could ever want to do it if I don't live on this site like usual.

---

GreyICE is nowhere near as close to being lynched as he should be.

[Vi]

Lady Lambdadelta wagon:
*Untrod Tripod
*Antitown
*UncertainKitten
*Cogito Ergo Sum
*Seraphim
*Nachomamma8

UT and Antitown had random votes.
As mentioned before, I don't really agree with UK's reasons for voting LLD, though LLD validated the vote-based reason by jumping on CES soon afterward. I don't really mind LLD spending so much time defending the red text (since it DID become an issue) and as said before I got the opposite hunch on LLD's bounty talk.
lol, CES. As soon as LLD became a hot wagon he jumped over.
The wagon pretty much lingered there until Seraphim voted her for asking for a claim, etc., etc.
Nacho voted to prove a point.

Of the four votes that were made based on anything LLD did in this game, the only one that really runs counter to what I was already thinking is UK's. Nacho trolls as every alignment, unless I'm mistaken.


Seraphim wagon.
*Kdub
(*ToastyToast)
*Vi
(*Cogito Ergo Sum)
*GreyICE
*Lady Lambdadelta
*UncertainKitten

Kdub called Seraphim on his flavorscumfishing, which I agree with. (This was before Seraphim claimed inside information.)
Toasty called Seraphim on not revealing his softclaimed information. It's not a bad reason for a vote, but most of his talk before, during, and after the vote were based on flavor and mechanics as well, so etc.
Vi voted Seraphim because of the flavorfishing and not doing anything else productive.
lol, CES.
GreyICE voted Seraphim for waffling and because Seraphim said that he was backpedaling.
LLD voted Seraphim because of his out-of-place jokeposts.
UK voted because... I'm not sure, aside from calling LLD a rolefisher for asking for a claim.

These UK votes actually look bad in retrospect.

Also and actually, I think I understand what CES is doing. I think it should be okay to leave him be for the time being.

[Vi]

The reactions to CES are priceless? What? He's posted a grand total of blah in the thread. If I had a dayvig I'd have no problem dropping his ass.

You'd be surprised what you can get out of reactions to unorthodox playstyles, especially when done by obviously experienced players.~
Bad players and scum, for instance, would move to policy lynch them. I don't think I have to go further.

[Vi]

VI

...I'm going to have to give you a rain check on this one.
I was so excited to get a chance to use Hollaback Apple!! but the YouTube account got terminated.

*goes back and reads Rhinox's post*
...I think I understand what happened. Sorry, my train of thought jumped its tracks. v.v

Unorthodox is one thing. Poor is another. I can tell the difference.

Cut: Still , partly because I have no idea what MPM is

[Vi]

Spearophim 326 - That's a monologue.
I think I understand what you're saying, but just for the record, why are you voting GreyICE?

I have my own ideas of who is scum with Seraphim.... useless until a flip occurs though.

LLD knows how to play Mafia.

I can provide my own reasoning for why I'm not scum with Seraphim, but I think it'll be more interesting if Sera says it.

Que sera sera

I'm getting kinda lost here. I did find half of Rhinox's post to be invalid. The one on Gray, I mean.

"Invalid" is rapidly becoming one of my least favorite words in Mafia again. Please explain.

the bogus attacks on GI (at that point),

*compares this quote and above quote*
15 starbucks says this promised iso-read is going to end in more waffling.
Cut: Called it.

You've been attacking me, but have almost entirely switched your focus to Vi, while keeping your vote on the viable wagon, me.
Now I'm attacking you again and we're(Vi and I) scumbuddies.

This is a good catch.

[Vi]

@Vi: GI explained. Rhinox was making a big thing of something OBVIOUSLY sarcastic. And spent half his post doing so.

And is it waffling if I quit halfway through because I can't think straight? I think I'm really tired...HOPEFULLY I can get it done this weekend.

*I disagree that it was OBVIOUSLY sarcastic, considering I missed it. (cue lame insults here)
*Half his post? Taking out the "one of these statements does not belong" and the commentary on the Nacho vote, that's definitely an exaggeration.

I'm willing to wait for an opinion, but not for long - you've already asked for me to hold on twice.

Seraphim,

I didn't ask this for show--

I think I understand what you're saying, but just for the record, why are you voting GreyICE?

Hey Kdub, is there anyone you actually want to see lynched right now?

Are you suggesting that my vote lacks conviction or that it is somehow not genuine? Otherwise I don't see the point of this question.

I prefer it when the people I'm questioning don't know what I'm doing, actually.~ And neither.
Your last post said stuff and that was good and everything, but I had to flip back to an iso-read to see who you suspected, and you're not exactly pursuing a lynch.

How about this GreyICE lynch?

Is there anyone who isn't Seraphim who deserves a wagon right now?

First off, because

[GreyICE]

's town.

watt

Not saying anything to that effect

[who your scumpartners are]

at the moment, Sera. I'm keeping those cards held close.

I have a good idea of who is scum with you though, based on your flip.

watt

And what are you planning on gaining from all the secrecy, anyway? Every time I've tried to put together SEKRET ANALYSIS it fell flat, so etc.

Jahudo 359 is... actually kind of interesting. :vagueness:

UK

364 is remarkably without a GreyICE read, as is 368, as is 372. Or at least, an

explicit

GreyICE read - I'm definitely getting the message here.
The "we're ignoring this now" quote box point is... incomprehensible.

After GreyICE 373+374 I'm convinced that the Lain av needs to be replaced with a Boondock Saints av. Other than that I'm not particularly impressed.
Y'know, I'm really pretty sure I've asked before where the Jahudo-Town read came from, and I know others have too, and I've yet to see an explanation.

The Toastpoast quoted is odd partly because I don't know where GreyICE ever accused Antitown of being scum (the others, though, yes, and GreyICE conveniently didn't say anything about that), and I'm not on that list.
However, I'm not at all interested in the false dilemma argument for Toast-scum except as one more reason to vote GreyICE. Rhinox knows why.

Rhinox and UK point-by-point, with UK providing no quotes - Please never post like that again, please and thank you.

UK

, seriously, why haven't you just come out and said you're not going to vote GreyICE instead of leaving the door open to consider?

And for the love of the time I spend on this site why isn't me vs. ICE being brought into this at all?
Did nobody see how he postured and exaggerated his way into making me second on a two-person scumlist?

Nacho 382 - Should I even ask?

---- Useless stuff beneath this line

You've literally ceased to interest. Run up the pirate flag and claim scum in the thread, it's the only fucking way you could be

more

obvious.

Well, one person in this thread has "YARR!" as a title. Is that more obvious?

Its not really bussing if I started the case on him.

Actually, that's the definition of bussing.

but, really, doesn't Katsuki (of Antitown) always lurk?

I don't think so.

[Vi]

have a bad habit of my fingers not always doing the same thing my brain is thinking while I'm typing.

If anyone needs me to, I'll go dig up a recent game where I did the exact same thing.

Why did you need to tag on the bolded?

This is a good question

[Vi]

As for your comments, and I not allowed to have a town read on GreyICE?

No, you're not.

Did I miss why you have one?

Fuck you and your quote stripes, Vi, because they make shit hard to read, and whether you want it or not, I'm not going to inflict it on people.

Then quote the whole post; I'm not going to zip back and forth between two posts (potentially three, but Rhinox did it correctly) to see what you're saying.

Finally, it IS still open for me to consider. I just haven't gotten to getting a good clearheaded read of GI. So, I'd appreciate not assigning me opinions I haven't expressed, thank you very much ^-^.

Mmmno. Since you've asked for more time you've done an excellent job of shooting down a case on

none other than GreyICE

.
It sounds like you've already found your position.

I have a good idea of who is scum with you

[Seraphim]

though,

based on your flip

.

Based on what kind of flip?

[Vi]

LLD - If your speculation about GreyICE doesn't really mean anything until Seraphim flips scum, would you then like to say

meaningful

things about GreyICE's alignment?
Or alternatively, would you like to step out of your tunnel for a moment and look around?

---

Nacho, are you actually interested in anyone as scum?

---

Look at the list he artificially inflated. Look at the fact that I call CES bad (not necessarily scum) and say that Anti is not posting much and therefore null. NULL. Not fucking scum.

um

How is

[CES]

town? HOW?!?

This would pretty clearly suggest you're pushing CES as not-Town.
Antitown got this--

If I had to bet, the list Antitown, ToastyToast, and CES. TBH, I'm thinking Antitown is probably town,

which is more than anything. Also, there's CEScum again.

And then the last bit. The last bit. Where he sets it up so that he can push for a Seraphim lynch on day 2 if I'm town, or a lynch of me on day 2 if seraphim is town.

SCUM IS POSTING THIS.

I do agree that scum made post 411.

Some light reading on this subject. soulmonarch got taken to LyLo and lynched over this post. Also, soulmonarch was Town. In addition, trying to chain lynches doesn't work in the first place. So, etc.

---

Hey Antihero, what's your take on UK?

Re: UT - The vote gained no traction because it was made in the transition between Bandwagoning Ho+Seraphim and GreyICE. The case is actually decent in retrospect, especially the "indicating" part. What say we

@mod: Prod Untrod Tripod

and see if he continues to disappoint.~

---

Kdub's treatise on GreyICE-Town is actually fairly interesting, partly because I didn't think anyone would actually provide one <_< and partly because I don't really know what to do with it. I don't know much about self-preservation voting, and I really don't want to touch associative theory beyond what's extremely obvious.

Is there anyone who isn't Seraphim who deserves a wagon right now?

This question wasn't asked for show. Seriously.

---

UK is awesomely dodging GreyICE entirely.

Again.

The element of surprise has pretty much faded here because UK hasn't bothered hunting scum since Thursday at least.~

---

So let me see if I have this right.

Seraphim (4): Kdub,

GreyICE,

Ladyλδ, UncertainKitten

Kdub - parked vote
GreyICE - evidently not a parked vote
Bandwagoning Ho - parked vote
UK - parked vote

I see at least two patterns here.

[Vi]

Ran out of time last night.

They evolve. NULL. It means "I do not know." I do not know. When CES kept posting utter shit in the thread, he became scummy. At this point, he's contributed less to this game than Werewolf555 did to the last game I had to suffer in with him. Yeah, I'd endorse a fucking day vig, I have no idea how else I'm supposed to determine his alignment. What I do know is that despite being called on it, he is STILL doing nothing to help the town. That's fucking scummy.

I explained that any change in my reads will have reasons.

You don't ask the reasons.

You just criticize them for changing.

Well, asking you for an explanation for your Jahudo read was pretty fruitless before <_<
Moreover, ironically there's something missing in this, and it's

why (not to mention when) you changed your read on CES

from scum to ? other than sheer peer pressure.
Last, saying that your changes in reads would have reasons is kind of

what I expect from anyone

.

Now, theory time for the Vi - Town tries to determine who scum is. Scum tries to find reasons to lynch townies. You didn't ASK me why my reads changed. You just declared it scummy that they changed.

Toasty did the same only 100x worse because he lied and misrepped me

I stopped reading here.
Most of the time "misreps" are simple reading comprehension failures, not lies. Toasty #21 pretty much follows in this vein.

Okay, I kept reading. Then I stopped reading again, because you evidently weren't interested in the light reading I provided (it was only one post). I have definitely seen Townies try to set up chain lynches.

Much RAGE about nothing, not interested in truth so much as pushing his own agenda, why haven't we lynched this person yet, etc., etc.

---

Bandwagoning Ho - Here's a scum list.

Scum

GreyICE
|
UK
UT
Nacho
Kdub
Seraphim
Toast
Antitown
CES
|
Jahudo
LLD
Rhinox

Town

Ordering is roughly correct, but I didn't put a lot of thought into it.

So I like how UK has
*no read on GreyICE (allegedly)
*no read on me
*no read on CES
Include herself, and that's a third of the game right there.

What was Vi hating about this?

You mean

aside

from the bad cases on Toast and me I've been calling him on for some large number of pages now? You've read his iso, now read mine.

---

GreyICE vs. Toasty is a nice mudslinging skim at 11 at night...

ICE does have a point in that Toast didn't consider Sera vs. ICE as Town vs. Town, but then again,

To leave open a wagon hop from me to Seraphim while saying I'm scum and saying we can't be scum together?

I will not remove my vote from you today, and my vote will go on you again tomorrow unless significant evidence points elsewhere

Again, much RAGE about nothing.

Oh, and while I'm here. Let me see if this is a fair assessment of what happened a few pages ago.

GreyICE says Seraphim is scumscumscum.
Toasty tried to posit that one of GreyICE and Seraphim is scum, leaning GreyICE.
GreyICE immediately implied that one of Seraphim and ToastyToast is scum, "leaning" Toasty.

Thank you and good night.

As for my #1 suspect, well, I'm fucking done with Vi. After you, it's balls to the wall machine guns on Vi unless I get some very convincing evidence she's town. She's sat here and hemed and hawed and done a whole lot of fucking nothing in this thread. We're talking "PM from the moderator" type of evidence for me to believe that at this stage. LLD is town. So bugger off, you're not finding much support for THAT mislynch anywhere around here anymore.

...

Really?
No...

really?

---

Vi:
At the moment, not really. I've gotten bad vibes from UK, and she's not helping herself with her fencesitting on GreyICE, but I don't have anything more solid than that. I've been a bit put off by Nacho's play, but I've felt better about him as the game has gone on.

Search Nacho's posts onsite and tell me if you still think better.

It is clear that the Toasty wagon is going nowhere, yet ICE is still pushing it with full conviction. I just can't see a scum player in danger of being lynched behaving that way. I think he's wrong about Toasty, but his actions look like misguided town to me.

Disagree. There's not much else TO do in that situation.

---

I searched UT's posts, and he's definitely elsewhere onsite. I'm not sure if it's worth giving up GreyICE though.
Cut: Well look who's (not) here. I'm looking forward to this one.

---

Yes. The only one I'm truly interested in right now is Jahudo, and he'll be getting lynched today. I'm just waiting for him to make a couple more #455s before the games begin.

Pretty big talk.
There's no sense in waiting now - go ahead, say what you have.

I don't like this. You

[Toasty]

post it

[dedication of sworn enemyness]

like you don't have the intention of getting GI lynched.

I don't follow.

---Silliness beyond this point

UK - MSPaint Adventures, yes? Also, what are "audio minutes"?

CES's avatar is incorrect.

U. Vote Count

Cogito Ergo Sum (0):
Vi (0):
Rhinox (0):
UncertainKitten (0):
Jahudo (1): Nachomamma
Lady Lambdadelta (0):
GreyICE (5): ToastyToast, Rhinox, CogitoES, Seraphim, Vi (L-2)
ToastyToast (2): Untrod Tripod, GreyICE
Antitown (0):
Kdub (0):
Untrod Tripod (2): Jahudo, Antitown
Seraphim (3): Kdub, Ladyλδ, UncertainKitten
Nachomamma (0):

Not voting:
Trying to go against the flow of all things: Ladyλδ

[Vi]

Having typed/proofed transcriptions before I can vouch that they take a while.
However, apparently with that last line I'm scum for not knowing about your personal life?
The last time I checked you were selling door-to-door insurance or somesuch, but that was a while ago.

Yes I have an idea why you would put a rain check on CES and me, but see previous comment about you not actually hunting scum since Thursday.
Why don't

you

say it - when's the last time you called someone scum or Town ITT, or made a move to suggest that someone would be one or the other?

[Vi]

--- @

UK

So, yeah, happy?

I don't mind your RL situation, but see Rhinox 472.
Also, I love how evidently calling you on a lack of scumhunting is "going for the low-hanging fruit".

--- On

GreyICE

, with a side of Seraphim

I mentioned after LLD vs. Seraphim that I was more interested in looking elsewhere, and I lost interest. Part of that was because of Jahudo #11 and part of that was because of this:

I do, however, disagree about your conclusion, which shouldn't come as a shock. I personally think my wagon has stagnated and, with GreyICE removing his vote, has a high likelihood of stagnating and dying in not too long...or perhaps I'm a bit optimistic. But even then, it's clear that moving his vote to a new wagon looks pro-active and town and he certainly isn't harming himself by making a move like that.

which I agree with.

It's not that he's posted anything else better since then; no novellas full of reads and delicious morsels. I just don't care about him right now.

You have to go half way up her scum-town list to find someone she thought was "probably scum."

Forget the Boondock Saints av, you need a Glenn Beck av.
Or were you expecting me to list nine people as possible scum?

And how does that compare with, say, your #12?

Vi claims he has a 'master plan'

...I do? I don't remember saying anything of the sort in the last ten pages

Blah blah GreyICE is still guilty of the false dilemma he's accusing Toasty of etc. etc. etc.

...these are the people he's called scum: Seraphim, Me, Jahudo, CES, Antitown, and Rhinox (says he's waffling on this one)

CES - Still posting crap in the thread, and no one can say otherwise.

Oh, this is you calling CES scum again.~


--- @

Jahudo

about UK

Jahudo - On UK -
*Lack of content for ~five days
**Including no

official

opinion of GreyICE given this quote

I sympathize with Vi on this issue. I was basically in your

[GreyICE's]

shoes last game I played with her

[Vi, Objection! Redux]

, so.

And remind me of your alignment in that game.

[UK was scum in Objection! Redux; I was Town]

and engaging in a lengthy conversation vs. Rhinox about finding the case on GreyICE to be bad
*Votes on LLD and Seraphim wagons:

As mentioned before, I don't really agree with UK's reasons for voting LLD, though LLD validated the vote-based reason by jumping on CES soon afterward. I don't really mind LLD spending so much time defending the red text (since it DID become an issue) and as said before I got the opposite hunch on LLD's bounty talk.

(...)

UK voted because... I'm not sure, aside from calling LLD a rolefisher for asking for a claim.

and her parked vote on Seraphim


--- About

Vi

, specifically the case on me

Case on me:

1) IIoA, in re: wagon analyses
I did those specifically because GreyICE asked me to do them.
Read that again.

I'm being accused of doing something by the person who asked me to do it.

As for it being useless in the end, it depends on who you're talking to. I figured out what CES was doing (I think), and it was what got me to start seriously looking at UK. If nothing else, it helped me. :\

2) Setup analysis that didn't end anywhere
Saying that it "kept going for pages" kind of ignores the fact that it was there for... two posts. And one more because Nacho+UK asked about it. And it's not like it was all I was doing during that time.

3) Lack of commitment - Actually not a bad accusation.
I don't have a lot of solid Town reads in this game, as my previous post suggests. Most of the people ITT choose not to converse like normal human beings. I've had to repeat myself over the course of the game in order to get people to answer my questions, and it's still not working. Given that I don't think most people here are terminally retarded, I'm left to assume that people are deliberately ignoring them (or giving nonanswers). I don't ask BAD questions; if I'm wrong on that, someone tell me. So my reads are for 10/13 people more or less guessing their motivations. The only thing I CAN do is keep trying to press people.

It doesn't help that I'm not dealing with this thread in anything close to real-time; distancing me from rapid repartee, giving me the chance to forget what I'm doing, and forcing me to make these silly wallposts. That's not something that can be helped right now though.

4) OMGUS

*looks at no small part of my previous posts*
Raise your hand if you buy this.


--- @

Kdub

Hmm...he does seem to be more active elsewhere than here. I see why this could be suspicious, but didn't someone (it might have been you?) mention that he's played this way as town before?

I said that he trolls as any alignment, which has nothing to do with it.

So you're trying to pass it off as a null tell on someone you said you were leaning scum on. Is this correct?


--- @

Nacho

Explain what you were trying to say with

[the ordering being roughly correct]

.

The words don't lie. I made that list late at night, came back to it in the morning and it still looked good. I didn't spend much time agonizing over whether LLD was scummier than Jahudo or anything like that. If I were to do it again I would add a | above Antitown.

If there wasn't sense in waiting

[for Jahudo to make more scummy posts after announcing that I'm about to make a case on him]

, then I wouldn't be doing it.

1) I'm skeptical of any case that's made in advance of future posting (that isn't associated with policy lynching).
2) Given that I'm willing to put Jahudo on the Townshelf Today I'd rather hear what you have in nonvague terms.
3) I question if you have anything substantial right now.

Re: the Toastyquote - Okay, I do follow this time. But see below.

Re: My questions having any purpose - I'm assuming you're asking about the questions I asked you in the past.
*CES' reaction to your Jahudo vote, thoughts?
I asked that question largely because of how you immediately called CES Town afterward. Seeing the two posts side-by-side threw me, and I asked if the feedback from someone you thought was Town changed anything. In retrospect, and at risk of giving GreyICE more garbage to throw at me, that question was unnecessary.

*My reaction to 382: "Sera, Toasty is just today's bounty, he's not actually scum."
Bewilderment at a comment that didn't make sense at the time.
Again, after spending about forty seconds thinking about it, this question was also unnecessary. But this implies that Toasty is Town... I guess I can go with that for the time being.

Regardless, that's... actually really terrible on my part. v.v


--- You know what this is

VI

Daykill: Rhinox

[Vi]

Re: "Low-hanging fruit" - You were asking for a free pass on scumhunting because of schedule issues I didn't know about.

Re: Not paying attention to GreyICE - Well, you've been here for a while so far given the very quick response and your earlier post this night, so it seems like you've had time tonight. Plus what are you trying to do with "full analysis"?

Re: "Being in GreyICE's shoes" - Actually, it doesn't clarify. Help please.

[Vi]

1) Yes Vi, I would have liked to see some

analysis.

You instead told me

information.

What people said when they voted. I can find this by reading the thread. What you think of that? Lacking. It's been lacking in every one of your posts. It was what I was looking for. You're not doing any analysis of the thread, you're summarizing and popping me information. There was ONE line of analysis, maybe two if you count the CES line (I understand what he's doing... GOOD ANALYSIS). Everything else was "X said Y when they voted. B voted because of C." Yes, that's a good way to fill lots of space.

It has no substance. It's just space filler.

2) I'd be happier with it if you were doing more solid analysis this game. It just feels like the only thing you've really mulled over.

3) This is about the third time you've agreed with something I've said and then concluded I have no point at the end. Well... okay. Cool.

4) It's really funny 'cause I was pushing you before you voted for me. So, huh? My psychic powers are vastly overrated if you think I foresaw your vote.

1) The format of the post was originally to list what everyone did, and then analyze it.
I found that both wagons were cut-and-dry except for what I mentioned afterward, namely in re: UK and CES as well as the later comment about parked votes on the Seraphim wagon. Looking at it again, I can try to goofball it, claim there are two scum on both wagons, and basically make stuff up that fits my preconceived notions, but let's not.

Make my day. Do better.

2) What do you define as "analysis"? Would it perhaps have to do with looking at your posts and pointing out where you're contradicting yourself?

3) Even a broken clock, etc.

4) Ah good, you're reaffirming that voting someone who is attacking you is a scumtell.
Here I thought that kind of obviously useless tell died a much-deserved death in 2008.

[Vi]

GreyICE -

Who does the scummiest vote flop from Seraphim to me?

(This is the person who accused me of OMGUS earlier?)

Toast's first vote wasn't good, simply enough.
I don't think his vote on you was that bad, aside from the fact that it was on you.

Obviously

that makes it the worst thing ever.

My Seraphim vote in retrospect doesn't look great. At the time I was torn between Jahudo, Antitown, and Seraphim; and Seraphim had the wagon.
I was also undecided when I voted you (see previous comment about a lack of clear reads in this game); the vote was half a joke. Then you posted this and this, which changed my mind in a hurry.

What the hell are you trying to convey here?
"Y'know, if you don't play my game, I'm going to put you on my

bad list

."
If you think I'm scum, you don't say "I'd watch out, I might find you scummy if you keep this up".

That's not how suspicion works.

That IS, however, what you do to put up bad-play lynches.

Nice to see you coming to grips with CES at least, albeit not through the route I took (I really don't see a reason to put stock in that associative tell). Also, and for the record, vezo-play is worse than what CES has been doing.

There's something curious about your wagonalysis, but I think I'll sit on it for now.

---

UK - And I'm trying to work on a thesis all day every day. I'm posting at 11 at night because that's about an hour after when I decide to stop what I'm doing and check up on this. And at least I'm

trying

to keep up with this thread.

If you really need me to go into my browsing history for your skeptic mind; I don't visit threads in GD that don't interest me, I don't visit RPG, I don't go on IRC, and before you asked me to join BotW I don't think I had seen or heard anything interesting at all from you in at least a month.

I don't think you're remembering Encore Mafia correctly, because my D1 wasn't that bad. The other Days were a bit more so, but that was also because if we didn't lead the Town in precisely correct directions we would lose.

As for not applying much of my ability, I don't think I need to reiterate what I'm working against right now. I shouldn't even be posting this now.

Whatever. I'm dropping it.

[Vi]

@Vi: Taking a short break, not long enough to do the analysis which I'm sure everyone is going to yell at me to do.

DO YOUR oh wait

I guess I could stop by the site during the day to stay current, but the problem is that I don't

leave

. Kind of like how I haven't gotten anything done today.

[Vi]

There's something very wrong here.

So, sure, I could have read a half dozen GI posts.

It wouldn't have done a damn thing to advance my read of him

This isn't the first time I've seen someone try to breadcrumb/softclaim in red text (Antihero can vouch for this).

Now look at what's on the next page.

LLD:
*Untrod Tripod
*Antitown
*UncertainKitten
*Cogito Ergo Sum
*Seraphim
*Nachomamma8

Seraphim:
*Kdub
*ToastyToast
*Vi
(*Cogito Ergo Sum)
*GreyICE
*Lady Lambdadelta
*UncertainKitten

GreyICE:
{ToastyToast}
Rhinox
{Vi}
{(CES)}
(Seraphim)

Now lets look at something interesting here. Here's a list of names in common:

LLD&Seraphim

CES

UncertainKitten

LLD&GI

Seraphim
CES

Seraphim&GI

ToastyToast
Vi
CES

On no one's wagon:
Jahudo
*UT (Effectively UT had a hyper-RVS vote heading the bandwagon)

The "curious thing" I hinted at in 507 was that someone is noticeably missing from this wagon analysis. I filled it into this quote.

So here we have UK ardently ignoring GreyICE and hyperclaiming no way of improving her read on him, and GreyICE putting a blind spot on UK.

My first thought was a Masonry. Everything makes sense that way.
But based on everything after 517, that's clearly not the case... and pretty much means I've been right all this time.~

The fact that it's UK saying that GreyICE is 100% Town - again in red - based on his claim means I'm really comfortable with my vote.~

[Vi]

That's nice Vi. Amazing how confirmation bias works, isn't it?

I'll acknowledge there's at least one "con" involved.~

GreyICE is town because he claimed no bounty bonus for lynching. That's all anyone should need. Maybe scum had straight up fakeclaims, maybe they inferred that bountybonusless townies existed because some scum had bounty bonuses, etc. etc., but scum still wouldn't have claimed bountyless. Above all, they wouldn't know for sure, and that would be a unnecessary risk.

I'm not understanding you here.

UK, GI, and I are all no-reward for bounty people. I fail to see how you haven't noticed.

Or here. (Yes, I have a bounty reward)

LLD: I'm beginning to be inclined to agree with you. It is manifestly obvious that I'm either scum or I have specific information confirming GI. This means that Vi should be voting ME, not GI.

The persistence on GI implies she wants that mislynch badly.

It is indeed manifestly obvious, and it goes the other way as well.

I have no idea how I'm supposed to respond to what's being said right now, so etc.

[Vi]

You have a role specific investigate.

No where does it claim that role is scum.

I'm pretty sure the Red Dragon Clan is scum.

P-Edit: like it or not UK, this is the fact. One of Vi and Seraphim is scum. Vi scum is confirmed by Seraphim town. Vi town does not confirm Seraphim scum. Therefor, Seraphim can be scum regardless if Vi, and is a better lynch anyway.

Can I even get a tl;dr of this one?

[Vi]

LLD, I don't know what you're smoking, but I kind of like it.

I'll agree that I don't know what she's smoking.
UK,

this

is confirmation bias.

Grey should not be lynched,

About-face sighted.

[Vi]

I have my reads, and a case will follow. You will have your chance to

Show that you are scum

defend yourself when it comes.

I think it should go without saying that the case is more interesting than the prelude you're putting up, since the latter depends on the former.

Bounty hunters get bonuses for capturing bounties. I am not a bounty hunter, ergo I get no bounties. This seems totally consistent to me. Moreover, no one has argued this... and we've had several softclaims so far.

My PM explicitly mentions bounty hunting, so etc.

[Vi]

@Vi: You're ignoring motherfucking role information to vote GI. That's dumb or scum right there.

I wouldn't say "ignoring" so much as "I have no idea what you're talking about and don't see a reason to blindly buy into it". Clearly the red text guarantee was overstated before. Clearly the difference is based on GreyICE's claim, through some unexplained rationale. As mentioned before, the relationship goes both ways. And let me show you how it looks from this direction.

*GreyICE ignores UK (actually, GreyICE has been nothing but supportive of UK all game)
*UK ignores GreyICE (again, no suspicion all game)
*UK is finally pushed into reading GreyICE and OMG GreyICE is scum! I SEE THE LIGHT!~ <L-1 vote>
*GreyICE says "lol, UK" and makes an unconfirmable claim
*UK says OMG GreyICE is Town! I SEE THE LIGHT!~ <unvote>

The sudden L-1 vote makes no sense except as a mechanism to force GreyICE to claim, and it seems planted.

[Vi]

Sudden L-1 Vote? Look, I know it's annoying to read walls of text, but my logic does more or less flow from that. Perhaps you should read that before you call an L-1 vote "sudden"?

Maybe you should just reread the game in general? Or maybe just stop being scum?

What dialect of English are you speaking where "sudden" means "reasonless"?

If

Nacho, UK, and Grey are all town, then Vi is either scum or extremely stubborn.

Key word bolded. The UK-GreyICE progression is too suss to blindly accept as coming from two confTownies. Seriously, did you not see what just happened? Is UK less scum because she's now/again voting with you?

Toasty gave a reaction to everything thus far, incidentally.

GAWDAMMIT WHY'D YOU HAVE TO SEEM SO SCUM GREYICE?!

If Seraphim flips town, I'm still going to be suspicious. And if it turns out you are scum,

then that's one good fake-claim.

I would be more helpful right now but I'm brain-dead atm.

That reaction came out of both sides of his mouth, too.

It's worth a vote, except that would mean unvoting GreyICE, and I'm still not interested in doing so because the only response I'm getting to my (entirely reasonable) objections is that I'm evidently blind, stupid, or scum.

[Vi]

And is there a reason that GreyICE is posting elsewhere onsite, but absent here?

Cut:

Even with your theory, you should be voting me. My death would confirm GI, if you really wanted to push it. Instead...you...want to lynch the confirmed (to me) innocent.

If you're scum choreographing this - which has pretty much been the point of what I've been saying - then either lynch works. GreyICE has the wagon.

Which brings me to a big subobjection. Why is GreyICE confTown?
AFAIK it's "because I said so" and "because he claimed no bounty bonus", one of which is dubious given the above and the other is simply inscrutable.

While it's possible that some combination of those three are scum trying to "confirm" each other, I think that would be very risky.

Seen it done before. It would have worked without the SK's intervention. UK was in that game, albeit not on the scumteam that tried it.

[Vi]

Again, role information. If it's dubious, lovely. You're still not lynching GI today. It's me or scum. I wonder which one you plan to lynch. The big problem I have is you want to lynch an innocent with less than stellar evidence. As more information comes to light, your objections MIGHT have more merit.

Um... what?
You said earlier that YOU WERE SORRY, YOU SAW THE LIGHT! and voted GreyICE with extreme prejudice.
What is this "less than stellar evidence" crap?

And "role information" is only almost the best nonanswer you can give.

Running through some scenarios... okay yes I'm being thick. Lynching you confirms 97% confirms GreyICE to be a given alignment no matter what you flip; lynching GreyICE confirms you as scum only if he flips scum.

Unvote: GreyICE
Vote: UncertainKitten

(L-6)

...

I don't like this. I really don't like this.

But after a little reflection, for Day 1 it's acceptable.

Unvote: GreyICE
Vote: ToastyToast

(L-something)

Also, which game was that?

US Election 08. Knight of Cydonia claimed Hider with his scumpartner as one of his Hide targets. That was how I nailed him on the last Day after shooting said scumpartner.

@GI: Meaning?

GreyICE is being himself while explaining why he was posting elsewhere onsite (not where I was looking though).

[Vi]

(Oh, sure, she answers HIM...)

Besides, Vi might hate cops. And I do too, honestly. I will say though, getting that guilty in your inbox night one? That just feels goooooooooddddd.

It feels better when you get four Guilties in the same game, and lynch them with relative impunity.~

Ah, right, that game. I replaced in and didn't read it, IIRC.

That was after you replaced in, unless you're claiming you didn't read it while you were playing

[Vi]

@Vi: I thought that was obvious too...hence why your reaction seemed so ridiculous.

Definitely not obvious. Even if it were, remember who you're talking to.

---

Rhinox's find sounds great, but it's not entirely correct.

Note that Seraphim scum does not exclude Vi scum anymore.

It's not quite that I'm scum either way, but the door is certainly left open.

Or wait, maybe it is as you said.

Vi has been scum for a while now....

I'll give you a case when I'm not on my phone, but do some Pre-case reading of your own.

Therefor, Seraphim can be scum regardless if Vi,

and is a better lynch anyway.

I am so certain of this fact

[one of Seraphim+Vi being scum]

, that I am willing to have Seraphim swing (because he could still be scum...) to catch a Vi scum.

I'm sure this makes sense to someone

With that said I think GreyICE is correct about her having Town cred to burn and being ridiculously deep in confirmation bias.

[Vi]

Herp Derp.

You're likely scum with Seraphim

[for questioning me]

.

I cringe every time I see things like this.

Someone explain to me exactly in words even I can understand why the above Re: LLD is not scummy?

Bandwagoning Ho is burning Town cred from the Seraphim/LLD spat.
If anyone else were saying things like this we would be treating that person like Furcolow. (Which incidentally is what I'm doing now - sitting back, checking occasionally to see if she started making sense, mostly not caring.)

--

Toasty - It is indeed What The Fencesit.
What about that falseclaim you said was so good? And wouldn't you lynch someone who claimed a false guilty anyway?

--

No one else speaks up, I think we

might

be dealing with a miller.

I think it's best if we clear up the italicized

might

before we go any further.

[Vi]

Hey look Vi! I can falsely discredit people with a passive aggressive playstyle too!

I stand by what I said. You've provided a lot of talk about who's not/scum with whom, and your reasoning is not there.
If it was there, you would have posted it by now.

Your statements about me vs. GreyICE aren't true. You'll notice in the post immediately prior to the GreyICE vote (#13) that I

did

lay out reasons why he was my top suspect, as well as why I didn't vote him immediately. I went ahead and voted him in the next post because he told me to do so with style~ which is why if you were only looking at that post, yes, you wouldn't have seen it.

The case looked something like this:
1) His case on me was based on things that were simply not true whatsoever, i.e. wanting an LLD lynch SO BAD. His Rhinox vote was the same.
2) The contradiction in intent I quoted in post #13, which I will quote again because you didn't read it the first time--

Bounties - Right now I don't think there's any reason to deal with it, but later on it might be worth bringing up

This is what I was referring to. She brings up the concept of bounties, and then immediately says that there's no reason to talk about them now.

Hmmmmmmmm.
Done that one as scum when I know something is bad for the town, but want someone else to take the fall.

Vi:

What do you think about the idea of having the bounty named in Fate's post claim, then deciding who our collective strongest town reads are and having them lynch the bounty to see what falls off that wagon? We have to do this day 1, period, because the scum:town ratio will almost certainly never be lower.

LLD:

*huggles*

'kay, no, seriously, some bounties can be achieved with as little as one lynch. If this mechanic benefits town, then it is likely to benefit the most on day 1. Are scum power roles more damaging than town?

Notice that immediately after saying I was scummy for introducing the bounty talk, he asks me about that very thing and encourages others to talk about it as well. My response:

GreyICE - The first thing we'd need is a bunch of Town reads, so for the time being I'm going to put a "no" on that plan. There's also the issue of whether the bounty is likely to be scum, so etc.

GreyICE didn't bring it up again because he was too busy swatting Seraphim.
3) Sketchy rhetoric during the Seraphim wagon, which would have only looked sketchy until it inflated to rhetoric that Townies simply don't have reason to say.

Huh.

Fair enough.

Hope there's a reason for what you're doing.

Finish better have fucking fireworks and a brass band, is what I'm saying.

Those questions weren't lazy, I was getting somewhere. And where I was getting is what to think of Vi based on Seraphim and LLD's alignments. And if LLD is town and Seraphim is scum, which is what I believe, then Vi?

Doesn't look good.

What the hell are you trying to convey here?
"Y'know, if you don't play my game, I'm going to put you on my

bad list

."
If you think I'm scum, you don't say "I'd watch out, I might find you scummy if you keep this up".

That's not how suspicion works.

That IS, however, what you do to put up bad-play lynches.

Next time, consider skimming less.

---

Toast: I still don't see someone who thinks GreyICE is scum saying--

GAWDAMMIT WHY'D YOU HAVE TO SEEM SO SCUM GREYICE?!

---

GreyICE is correct. My Role PM heavily implies "Red Dragon Clan" and "Mafia" are interchangeable. And I don't think he's claiming Miller.

It doesn't make sense for this to be a Town gambit because if it were, its goal would apparently be to discredit GreyICE in spite of not seeing him as scum.

I'm probably going to unvote GreyICE(sad that there's no point in making a giant post but I guess that's just the backlash for my procrastinating) but I want to play Devil's Advocate.

GreyICE: why are you so sure that the scum is the Red Dragon clan?

On the other hand, it DOES make sense as a Refuge in Audacity claim.

Unvote: ToastyToast
Vote: Seraphim

(L-1)

I should be here later today, but before I forget, I'm going to have no access Saturday through Sunday afternoon.

[Vi]

(Apologies for the wall; if you're not Bandwagoning Ho just start at "Toast")

[Vi]

Vi, I'm extremely surprised that you're not commenting on some of Jahudo's recent posts, especially if you hold that belief.
One more post before glory.

Sorry. Seraphim's claim (and lack of follow-up after GreyICE started talking about Millerdom) caught my attention big-time.
In unrelated news, Seraphim ISN'T at L-1.

All of this flavor speculation looks misguided and terrible. Role information could easily be full of flavor that is meant to draw the player into the show, which is not necessarily the game. That is how I interpretted my role PM and how I interpret pretty much every theme game role PM I ever get, ever. Seraphim votes based on ideas about Red Dragon being mafia are a joke.

I'm sorry, you must not be reading the game.

GreyICE is correct. My Role PM heavily implies "Red Dragon Clan" and "Mafia" are interchangeable.

[Vi]

Role information could easily be full of flavor that is meant to draw the player into the show, which is not necessarily the game. That is how I interpretted my role PM and how I interpret pretty much every theme game role PM I ever get, ever.

You've never played a game where the scum have been the same as they were in the source material?
Or your role's motivation has never been to get rid of a specific group of bad people?

I can't imagine you having anything in your role pm that is so clearly not flavor and so clearly can be trusted as accurate.

Maybe you should reread the game in general? Or just stop being scum?
I have role information, if that wasn't manifestly obvious. It's kind of irritating, really.

...The Kitten made me do it.

---

GreyICE, as I said before. I highly doubt Seraphim is a Miller. If he was, he would have claimed as such. (Cut: Rhinox gets it.)

The 'refuge in audacity' concept is slightly ridiculous, since me and Nacho have both been strongly saying Seraphim not-scum, so claiming Vicious the villain right now would be one of the weirder scum moves I've seen.

Seraphim still has the largest wagon without your support.

---

A) How is Toasty flailing anymore than his relative uselessness before this?
B) What makes Toasty scummy rather than just bad?
C) What makes Toasty a better candidate than Seraphim?

Skim the game for Toastposts and look for all the times it seems like he's trying to safepost.
Now consider his "darn you're Town OR ARE YOU" response to you calling him confTown.
Now consider that Seraphim's claim is impossible.

I will not be disappointed if Toast gets lynched, but Seraphim's claim doesn't hold water.

[Vi]

C) Vi just put Seraphim at L-1

You haven't checked a vote count recently, have you?

[Vi]

Preview button is on one side, Submit button is on the other.

1. Seraphim is scum and tried to gambit by claiming his actual role, but didn't know that GreyICE had 100% confirmation about the RDC=scum thing.
2. GreyICE is lying.
3. Fate made a mistake in the role PM.

2. should read "GreyICE

and Vi are

lying".

I don't think Seraphim necessarily claimed his actual role either. Just one that doesn't work. Without a noticeable gambit motive (which would otherwise have been 4. in your list)

Re: Millers not being told they're Millers - zoraster ran a game like that once; everyone in the game was told they may or may not be Millers. That's definitely not the case in this game, though.

I think an interesting question to ask people aside from the RDC thing would be, "is anybody else in the game a miller (and was told specifically that they were a miller)?"

It's certainly a possibility.~

---

I'll ignore the "believe it or not". <_<

I'm all for the fullclaim.

[Vi]

C) Vi just put Seraphim at L-1

You haven't checked a vote count recently, have you?

Unvote: ToastyToast
Vote: Seraphim (L-1)

You're right, I have no idea what the VC is. I just read your posts. If someone unvoted, well, okay.

I also said I messed up a few posts ago :\ One vote was a mod error, the other was me being in some fantastic alternative reality.

[Vi]

Toast -

Rage and rage all you want, I am not convinced.

I will not remove my vote from you today, and my vote will go on you again tomorrow unless significant evidence points elsewhere

So.
You're going to follow this

no matter what

, based on this.

Also, the only reason I'm useless right now is because I'm sticking to my word.

Hey, you beat me to calling your participation useless

And... wait, I just saw what whoeveritwas brought up. You won't need to vote GreyICE Tomorrow if he gets lynched Today, getting him lynched Today is the whole point of voting him, so what you're saying is that you're not going to lynch him Today?
(I swear I'm more intelligent than this thread is making me look)

---

I claim Vicious and I'm town.

Vi, my role heavily implies Vicious is scum. But I don't trust it because it looks like flavor. I do, however, have something NOT in the flavor for my role PM that says I'm a member of the Red Dragon clan.

I shit that up.

I agree.

Hey sera sera.

Re: Millers not being told they're Millers - zoraster ran a game like that once; everyone in the game was told they may or may not be Millers.

That's definitely not the case in this game, though.

---

Grey, do you have confirmation that:
All scum are Red Dragon Clan
OR
All Red Dragon Clan are scum?

There's a very large difference here.

*refrains from doing a GreyICE impression*
The former.

Also, stop stalling.

---

WE WON'T SEE ANY MORE RDC CLAIMS UNLESS ITS A SCUM CLAIM IN THE THREAD. I WOULD BET HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS ON THIS HAPPILY. I ASKED PAGES AGO AND NO ONE HAS SAID "YEP THAT'S ME."

To which I replied

I think it's best if we clear up the italicized

might

[as in "Seraphim -might- be a Miller"]

before we go any further.

And here we are.

Hi, I'm Julia. I've been Andrius-claiming Miller for the past like seven posts now.
I know what a Miller looks like. It's not how Seraphim is describing it.

---

I didn't think that information

[that Red Dragon Clan = scum]

was confirmed?

MAFIA: THE GAME
Basic reading ability may be required for full enjoyment of this game.

[Vi]

Just for the record.

Let's get this madhouse hate war started.

---

BTW, Vi... are you a member of the Red Dragon Clan? Or do you investigate as one?

I investigate as one, because people assume I'm still in the RDC.

[Vi]

I investigate as one, because people assume I'm still in the RDC.

Is this a joke?

I want to drop a "Here's Your Sign" line here, but I can't think of one. It's no joke.

[Vi]

Oh, so it's a gambit

without

Town motivation.

Flavorwise, this new incarnation of the claim is believable. There hasn't been a counterclaim. Vicious is definitely RDC material, so claiming third party isn't really an autolynch (though I like GreyICE's plan for dealing with it). The catches here are
1) it could still be fake
2) the obvious (I'm decidedly more fluffy than Vicious)

1) I'm not so interested in buying. I don't think I'm going to see a double fakeclaim from anyone except Goofball or Hoopla, and the motivation for asking about Vicious and co. fits with this.

2) is pretty self-explanatory. I've been referencing my role information at pretty much every opportunity; it's not like I've been hiding anything. My play is what it is; I've done my best with what I have and what I know.

---

@Vi: What else is in your role? Is there a bounty reward, any mention of vicious? How is red dragon brought up? Like the flavor part or the "this is what a miller role is" part, etc?
I distrust your claim.

I am Julia, Former Red Dragon Clan.
I do have a bounty reward. Per Bounty, I can Hide.
No mention of Vicious, but there is a mention of Spike (flavor).
As a Former Red Dragon Clan I am assumed to still be part of the RDC and thus investigate as Mafia.

---

You guys are bad at not claiming.

Half of my Town wins over the last year came from massclaiming, and the last time I saw someone say what's quoted they were scum. I don't mind.~

---

Unvote: Seraphim

Toasty's 767 is odd. He's agreeing to keep his vote on GreyICE... largely because he wouldn't go against his word... willing to accept a policy lynch/vig because of it. That sounds like someone who's not afraid to die due to completely preventable reasons.

Cat, Y/N

---

I'm seriously tired of Vi.

You know I'm fluffy and lovable ^.^

[Vi]

I'm sure you have (I've lost track of most of the offsite games), but for something as silly as a promise?

[Vi]

Never mind. I'm misreading.

[Vi]

@Vi: Yeah, thats why I'm not switching my vote.

But GreyICE still isn't cleared from my list, and,

if that gets me lynched/vigged, so be it.

Bolded is what Toasty is taking his stand on. Not the unbolded.

[Vi]

Well, whichever. I'm going to sleep. If I can catch up in the morning, yay. If not, Sunday afternoon.

Toasty: Don't worry about going back on your word. Vote who you think is scum.

[Vi]

Fate and the bounty mechanics change - That was not at all clear from the original wording.
In that case, it seems like it's just a one-shot Hide. Thanks for confirming that the issue exists though~

---

Toasty 802 - If you're concerned with GreyICE being upset with you for your vote, not voting at all is not a better alternative. Take a stand.

---

Jahudo's claim looks like hastily-put-together crap. No role name, no reason why he would be a Miller, and considering I was told in plain English that I would investigate as Mafia I have no idea why he would not have the same.

Vote: Jahudo

(L-6)

Also, LLD is correct. There's a reason why you claim Miller in your first post, and it's so that it doesn't look like you came up with it at a convenient later time.

---

GreyICE's bias is obvious and not worth reasoning with at this stage, except for this.

I have run out of pro-town reasons
To wait until someone with an investigate claims
To claim miller

There are two schools of thought on Millers. One says to claim immediately, the other says not to claim at all and just accept your false Guilty if/when it comes. I tried to get the best of both worlds by crumbing Miller so I could claim if necessary. When someone claimed a credible investigation ability and it looked like I was going to be the target, "if" became "when". At the right time, I swung it like a power role. It worked; I found scum with it (see 811).

---

Actually, fun fact: Fate has informed me that I stay in the game once I win, but I get to stick around with all of my abilities.

lol.

STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM

This is either the worst modding

of all time

since Blackest Night or an outright lie. People who win midgame exit for a basic reason - keeping them in the game basically means they can troll if they want to, because no matter what happens, they've already won.

Originally I was meh-leaning-no on Kdub's plan (assuming Seraphim shoots a Miller Jahudo gets outed either way, but assuming Seraphim's previous claim was accurate there's no reason to lynch Sera in the first place), but I think Kdub nailed this as an excuse to stay in the game after "winning".

Unvote: Jahudo
Vote: Seraphim

(L-3)

Hey wait.

I win if Vicious dies either by my hand

or before I die.

lol and what
Some Lyncher role.

---

Nacho's Jahudo case is everything I expected it to be.

---

tl;dr Seraphim's claim is once again impossible. Jahudo's claim is highly improbable from any point of view, but particularly mine.
Both of them would be excellent lynches.

[Vi]

As for GreyICE's counterclaim, I don't see a reason to believe that bounty rewards are necessarily unique. After all, I'm another "one who got away" (in fact, that should be

my

flavor).

Rhinox's reveal is off the mark on the "factional hider" issue; I can confirm that Hiding behind an RDC kills. The rest is actually an impressive catch, and what makes it more than an embarrassing mistake is that we're now one confirmed alignment short of what was promised. Claiming the bounty character essentially means he's not falseclaiming, although if this game is flavor-breaking-proof like advertised I don't know how much weight that holds. UK claiming information on him is vague and etc.

But tbh, it doesn't matter to me whether GreyICE is telling the truth or not right now, because we have a more obvious scum lying around.

Vote: Jahudo

(L-5)

I mean, what, did everyone forget?

[Vi]

Vi, what are the odds of two hiders? Now that 1-shot cop is revealed fake I think its been raised from nigh-impossible to nigh-improbable.

It's not bad when you have two characters in one niche and/or are strapped for creativity.

And I don't know what to think about flavor being important anymore. UK said it was and she was town and perhaps I should listen to her.

I'm going on what Fate said. You are listed as one of the people who got that message.

The gesture of goodwill is nice and everything, but your Miller claim was still bad so etc.

[Vi]

No reason for such a miller claim that early in the game.

Um... yes, there was? Is Seraphim already dead to you?

I'll grant that I did defend you from GreyICE's ludicrous case against you. Don't confuse that with me thinking you're extremely pro-Town; the post I voted you for was very decidedly nonTown and so were the previous callouts I made. Your vote on me doesn't even make sense given the line right above it.

If, however, she IS Julia, then we can assume that Vi is a Miller, leaving Jahudo in the open

No really.

Explica por favor

---

My Role PM is the same as everyone else's.

LLD's argument against GreyICE - the "infallible because not idiot" defense - isn't very convincing. Antitown pointing out that UK's flip should confirm him, however, is more so. Either way, GreyICE still isn't getting lynched Today.

Jahudo voters: So, you think that Vi, who got double CCed, is less likely to be scum than Jahudo because......... why?

If someone provides a decent explanation as to why Fate would put doubles of both roles and bounty rewards in, I'll STFU, but until then, these Jahudo votes are laughable.

Considering I explained in my previous post why it's not implausible for two similar characters to have two similar (claimed) bounty rewards, I'd like to recommend Hooked on Phonics.

The idea of there being two Millers in this game is difficult to swallow for a reason -

that's not what's going on

.

Also, what about Jahudo's play is NOT clueing you in to him being scum? Is it that terrible claim, or the unwillingness to lynch the counterclaimee, or the general active lurking?

I know there's OMG claim madness going on but seriously

which one looks like scum here

.

[Vi]

Everything I have to say is in the dead thread.

A few things I outrightly DIDN'T say are in the dead thread too, like LLD being scum.

[Vi]

Hey Rhinox. When the emotion's over, if anyone wants to never play with you again, you'd be better off without them anyway.
I know you're better than pariah-level.

Have we ever been Town together before? If not, we should roll the dice again and see if it'll happen.~

[Vi]

And now that the game is over, and we can start the MD discussion:
I WILL ALWAYS USE A 1-SHOT HIDER AS A COP ABILITY.

Yes.

I don't mind that you tore me apart. I had a hard time getting into this game and it has been a long time since I've been scum. I did my best with what I had. Driving you insane was a bonus that provided some measure of payback.~

[Vi]

Mr. Pope

I still like the idea of swapping "Bandwagoning Ho" out for "Our Lady of Lambda Delta".

See, this is why you don't kill me. I'm entertaining.

Also

Users browsing this forum: mikeburnfire,

UshiromiyaAnge

It's VERY Japan in here.

Re: QT - I'm fine with it. It should be amusing and/or frightening.

[Vi]

WAIT, WaTR mafia we were both town right? I know I was a vig but I can't remember what you were in that game, I think maybe you replaced in though?

I was the Neighbor to freeko. I replaced Prom King, who badly misread the part where his Role PM said "Town".

That was a good game, although TonyMontana destroyed both of us.