Mini 1123 - The Walking Dead - Game Over

[RedCoyote]

Vote: chesskid3

for letting me become a zombie in a certain Mish Mash game that shall go unnamed.

[RedCoyote]

another chance to kill one of us.

Seeing as n0 was either a nonlethal nightstart or kill was prevented, slip?

Oh, wow.

Unvote

;

vote: ender241

ender, what did you mean by that statement?

[RedCoyote]

What about the part chess pointed out, Starbuck?

[RedCoyote]

Not feeling it, and that was a hell of a lot of people to jump aboard that train before he even got a chance to explain.

Yeah, but, I mean, wouldn't you say this regardless? This feels like a scripted answer.

See?

My point is made.

Wait, so you're saying Fate is scum?

---

Oh yeah just my claim, I'm Andrea and i am a vanilla townie, for now. This for now is interesting, i may be stronger at a later time not sure maybe have a cool ability later on eh?

Unvote

The only unconfidence of my role PM because someone said there is noone on the walking dead called that meant me thinking maybe the mod spelt the name wrong and meant someone else.

Who said that?

---

If my vote will put him at L-2, I'll do it, but I'll wait until a modcount for that.

---

Anyways, I'd be willing to hammer at this point in the case, but not this point in the game. I don't believe what ender said was a scumslip, but I do agree with Amrun that his claim is starting to look more and more fake.

Does sitting on that fence hurt?

---

I signed up to play mafia
not shoot fish in a barrel

XD

---

fos:amrun

I think it's a good question.

---

Yeah, I don't get the case against me.

Anyways,

Vote: ender

Oh, wow. Let's be honest, I don't think you're trying (to understand the case against you). It's pretty obvious you're trying to play both sides of the argument. Amrun might be as well, but I get good vibes from her, so it's more of a wash in her case.

---

Okay. But Tony did mention cults, you know.

This. I noticed this as well, which is why I agree with Amrun's Grey suspicions. Our Mod is notorious for screwing around with his players, and he says as much in his rulesets.

Also, people's thoughts on cult vs. classic scum team?

I think zombies makes more sense with a cult and a n0, but it's not guaranteed.

Well, zombies that bite humans could easily point to a cult, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be scum either. The game is based off the show, but it's possible that the one bald, hick guy could be a scum role.

---

I will absolutely hammer Wraith after everyone posts.

[RedCoyote]

Amrun unvoted. Unless she was the hammer?

[RedCoyote]

Yeah, I paid close attention because I had a vote up after I saw Amrun gave me her seat on the wagon, but I had to erase it when Raivann stole it from me.

Jack, I think you summed up Amrun beautifully.

[RedCoyote]

... whose playstyle is so scummy that I couldn't even finish my sentence, apparently.

XD

But if you really insist on waiting for Mod intervention, then just stop posting, hon.

I do expect you to actually finish this sentence when you come back.

Let's see... Amrun is definitely town, Jack is definitely town, chess is probably town, and Fate is probably town. Not too bad!

[RedCoyote]

Vote: Wraith

[RedCoyote]

Hmmm, I wonder if I should abuse this power I have over the Mod...

Vote right after a vote count again, and I will modkill you

[RedCoyote]

Rolefishing, ho!

[RedCoyote]

Let's play some WIFOM. If I were part of a cult, I know who I'd bite.

Vote: Jack

[RedCoyote]

Amrun! My obvious townie! What happened? Who would do such a thing?

I have to read to find out...

[RedCoyote]

You aren't chesskid, and you are blatantly saying that behavior that I think to be scummy is a joke. I think you are trying to protect your buddy and answer for him. Not liking this at all.

I didn't like your bv angle all that much, but I have to admit this is a pretty good point. Why Amrun decided to protect chess out of nowhere, I suspect, would've seemed awkward at the time.

---

Starbuck sure came out guns blazing.

I agree, and I also think it happens to look fairly sincere.

---

And a big fat I told you about Wraith. He was railroaded way too easy. I'm going to find me so much scum out of that fiasco. I think Jack unvoted towards the end as a blatant distancing move, so he has my vote.

*thumbs up to this*

---

You vote neither of them and comment on Starbuck's wall because I'm pretty sure she had a lot to say about you in there.

Good points abound. I like this as well.

I haven't been able to get into Tony's games lately. They are always really well thought out and designed, but he can't put himself in the players shoes who AREN'T as creative as him and going to figure this out. We're sitting here going "welp. Guess there's a cult..."

This is a pretty lame cop out though. Jack asked you about Amrun point blank, and you twist it into your bv vote?

What a bad fuckin shot. Amrun not shooting ender last night was worse

No, uh, obviously if she had a day shot that could confirm her (as Jack's shot suggests) she'd want to use it during the day if at all possible.

---

I don't have the "for now" bit in my role pm so I thought she was at worst a vt.

This is understandable.

---

If the cult recruited Jack, would Jack have kept his killshot?

Mod

, would you be at liberty to answer this for the town? If a player were to get recruited by an anti-town faction, would they keep any abilities they may have had?

---

..I have homework to do before my class tonight, but I'll read the last few pages again, there's some big stuff going on there for sure.

Where's your vote, chess? Here's some homework for you: I want a vote on my desk by tomorrow.

Unvote

;

vote: bv310

Depending on what the Mod tells me, it's either going back to Jack or possibly to chess. I'm not interested in a Raviann wagon at the moment.

[RedCoyote]

In other words, Jack can kill during the day and party with his cult at night. What a life!

[RedCoyote]

No, I'm not happy. There has been no new activity since I was last online. Why are you voting Starbuck anyway?

[RedCoyote]

Grade:

F

See me after class

[RedCoyote]

Considering Jack was a vig, he isnt probably a cult leader, but might be a stooge now.

I agree with this. You're probably right, IS.

---

Jack, chesskid3 and Fate are probably town??? Those three players style of play is to make themselves unreadable no matter what alignment they happen to be -- which is great if they are scum, but really hurts the town if they are townies. I'd best stop there before I start ranting about the trio. The point is that I don't see how on earth he came up with probable townie reads on the trio.

No need to get in a huff. Why didn't you just ask me at the time? I was being a little tongue-in-cheek here, but the main thing I wanted to convey was I liked all of their posts. I like the pressure on Wraith and ender. I liked how chess paid close attention to ender's potential slip (which still could've been a slip for all we know, although, given his role claim, I feel a little less prone to push him right now). I liked Fate's ballsy aggression at that juncture. Wraith gave me bad, bad vibes, and I wanted to see him lynched. I agreed with the people who helped make that happen and the tactics they used to get information from others.

Starbuck was arguing that Amrun was scummy for defending his scum buddy chesskid3. This argument relies on the "fact" that chesskid3 is scummy - which had not been proven. Bad argument! Not good point!

I disagree. chess' alignment is beside the point really. Amrun sticking up for chess is the issue. Amrun shouldn't have known chess' alignment (whatever it was) unless she had a scum role (or like a Mason or something).

Overall, RedCoyote has been flying under my radar almost as much as Raivann. RedCoyote seems to be making just enough noise to try and get people to forget that he isn't really contributing and I don't like it.

I don't know what you want me to say. I'm not here 24/7. I try to post on all the activity from my last post on, but there's little more I can do outside of that. I (hopefully) helped to get Wraith lynched yesterday. I'm on record as not supportive of the current highest vote getting bandwagon today. I'd like Jack, chess, and bv to all feel more heat.

Fate and chesskid3: UGH! Yeah, that about sums it up.

You know what sums up you? I don't think you like anyone here as town.

Did everyone notice that the vote count did not reset after the day kill?

I wouldn't say it's common for it to do so.

---

Well, whatever, if that works as I think, you just became confirmable town, and Fate is towns again, so. Cult hunting. Someone flying under the radar as a vague town read.

Why are you assuming that Raviann's power is legit?

Your new vote is pretty smart though.

[RedCoyote]

chesskid3's alignment is the point! For instance, if someone shot ender241 right now and he flipped cult recruiter or mafia that would reflect really badly on Starbuck and myself because we defended him. However, if he flipped townie, then no scumminess is transfered to Starbuck and myself. If Amrun is scummy for defending chesskid3, then Starbuck and I have to be scummy for defending ender241 -- you can't have it both efing ways!

You're changing the context because you don't want to concede the point. Stop it. You're not right. Starbuck told you herself you are misrepresenting her argument.

The point is not chess' alignment, the point was that Amrun was defending him. Now that Amrun was shown to be townie the argument is completely moot. For you to go off on this tangent about what if chess was shot and bring ender into it... it's completely useless. There's nothing more to say unless you're intending to vote Starbuck on the back of this.

chesskid3 and Fate make it a practise to be flippant so they can walk away from anything they say with that excuse. Jack uses a different style to help make himself unreadable. It's not bad to be unreadable, if you're scum but it is terrible play if you're town. Why? That sort of play expands the list of potential scum for the town instead of helping to shrink down the list of potential scum. Which makes it so much harder for the town to weed out the true scum from the scum-wannabe townies.

Well, I've played with all three a bit. At the risk of sounding conceited, I feel like I have a good feel for their alignments when playing with them. They put on a front of little snippet posts (Jack moreso than the other two), but that's just as readable as you or me, you just have to know where they're coming from. I sense sincerity in those D1 posts from all three of them, but, as I've documented, Jack has since fallen back some. Remind me to make a scumscale for you soon.

---

Do cult leaders usually have an in thread recruit ability?

No, of course not.

---

Oh is GreyICE the mod now? Until I see something from the mod, im not going to believe any of this nonsense and just see it as a distraction.

Grey is right about one thing. Reads get reset daily because of these cult assholes.

QFT. IS is Mr. Town right now as far as I'm concerned.

---

Starbuck, are you seriously still trying to push my refusal to answer an opinion question pre-night IN A CULT GAME?
REALLY?

GOd that was why I put my vote on you in the first place for temporary, until I found a better place. Then you CONTINUE TO PUSH THE SAME BULLSHIT?

Why are you making an issue when there isn't one? I don't like this post at all. Starbuck asked you a simple question, and I think, if you were town, it wouldn't rile you up so much. Why are all my original town reads taking a nosedive in this game?

---

Unvote:
Vote: Starbuck

Kay

XD

I could watch Fate and chess go at it all day.

I have no idea what the fuck you're saying, but I knew long ago you weren't saying you had a guilty....

Bv votes are worthless, GreyIce. I've mislynched that clown so many times I can barely count them anymore. He's for BULLETS.

Do not badtalk my wagon, Fate. Starbuck, chess, and Rufflig dominating today's talk does not necessarily mean bv gets a pass for being a useless slog during the entire game. He's playing it as lowkey as possible, moreso, I'd argue, than anyone else here.

---

Internet Stranger is CR. He bit fate and greyICE and now is trying to bus Fate.

You're loopy, Raivann. IS is definitely town.

---

I finally took a peek at Inception; it is indeed a TonyMontana game -- in fact, you were scum with bv310 in that game. You've been in a position to comment on what I've been trying to nail down for some time now, but you've said nothing?

Well, the fact of the matter is, I didn't make much of an impact in the game (aside from a stupid fakeclaim) as I replaced into it. Additionally, there was some trouble with the game's thread being corrupted as Tony, bv, and Fate will attest to.

I mean, is there anything specific you want to know? I don't put much stock into meta to begin with, but I'm pretty much sold on being a cult hunter (per Fate's observation 6 or 7 pages ago in regards to Amrun's dead post) for this game. There were no cults in the game you're referring to.

---

Wow. Just wow. If I was a zombie I would just eat my own brains by now.

I havent quite figured out why Fate suddenly cares again.

Because he's town, damnit. I know you're town. I know Fate is town. I'm still pretty comfortable with calling chess town. Together we make a hell of a voting bloc. What's wrong with focusing our sights on bv? Quit being so stubborn.

---

Unvote:
Vote: IStranger

FUCK IT LETS DO THIS

Raviann and Fate in harmony?

I suppose Mafia makes for strange bedfellows.

^ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF STRANGERS ISO FOR THOSE LAZILY READING ALONG AT HOME

Me, Grey, IS, and Raviann seem like the only people interested in finding the Cult Recruiter. Everyone else is treating this game like baby's first mafia. We cannot be led astray by petty crap. If you want IS to give more opinions on more things, that's an acceptable request, but don't go off on him because he's tunnelling. Let's get real, Fate.

---

These are the worst scumreads in human history. Which means that you're probably relying on your meta of being too scummy to be scum.

Back it up, Grey. Didn't you just get through saying Raviann's IS vote was crap? What the heck, man?

---

Gonna withhold my vote for now, until somewhere where it will be useful shows up.

I agree with both Raivann and Starbuck. This stuck out like a sore thumb. bv is absolutely scum.

[RedCoyote]

So we're wasting today's lynch then?

If bv is a Doctor, I don't want to vote him. We already lost one PR.

Unvote

;

vote: ender241

ender already claimed, is all-around useless, and, to use some cult-based wifom, may have been a good cult target

If you're online, let's do this if we can. I see nothing better worth perusing right now.

[RedCoyote]

But he's town. :\

(Deal with it, Raviann)

[RedCoyote]

Grey, are you still here?

[RedCoyote]

Stop fucking speedlynching. Now I've got twenty pages to read over thanks to you guys. I'm sure half the town has accused me of "lurking" despite the fact that the thread was only open for, what, ten hours D3?

[RedCoyote]

I have kind of a unique position of making my first post in ~14 pages. If I touch on something that was covered already, that's too bad. I don't care who claims what, it's silly to rush to the day's end without waiting a reasonable time for everyone to post.

Anyways, I have played in very few games with a cult. I have been cult once but I don't recall if I've ever played against one offhand. I don't think I have, so this is going to be a little new to me. Let me try and take a page from my favorite scumhunter and see if I can narrow this down as logically as possible. There are probably one or two zombies left, right? Depending on if chess could convert every day and/or someone was blocked. There's at least one anti-town element here though. I'm assuming there are zombies left, but we also had our first nightkill of the game. I'm going to hunt for zombie partners in Starbuck and chess' posts because I have no intention on speculating as to who the night kill is (the one that wasn't Grey's).

Important Note

: I am assuming Starbuck was recruited on the second night given her outburst. If this was some sort of ploy, then she completely sold me. If this was something her and chess has planned before hand, then I would be absolutely shocked. Because of that, everything Starbuck said before D3 was very, very, very likely coming from a townie with no knowledge of any cult.

Spoiler: DON'T OPEN DEAD INSIDE

Credits

Fate as FATE
GreyICE as ICE
Internet Stranger as IS
Raivann as RAV
RedCoyote as the innocent townie
The Rufflig as RUF
TonyMontana as MOD

...and Jerry Mathers as The Beaver

---

Vote: The Rufflig

Possible distancing at RVS. +5 RUF

When have you seen him as scum, I'm curious? because I've only ever seen him as town.

In reference to IS. Very weak banter out of the blue. Null IS

yeah.

Backs up Grey's push on townWraith. +20 ICE

then again part of me wants to say I don't think Ruflig would be so suicidial as scum soooooooooooo

Weird fencesitting post in relation to Rufflig. +15 RUF

DUDE THAT WOULD BE PERFECT
BECAUSE THERE'S LIKELY SCUM IN THERE

This is in reference to getting both IS and bv lynched. bv was town, but getting his recruit killed may have made him look better. Still, probably not a great strategy. +5 IS

@ Mod: Raviann's vote not count why?

Probably nothing, but Wraith did flip town. Null RAV

Ravainn is being really stupid, but honestly I find all the jumping on him bad. Like, we all jumped on Wraith and I was as surprised as anyone at that flip, but given that, lets not repeat the same damn mistake.

Firm yet qualified defense of Raivann hidden amidst other stupid stuff. +20 RAV

For the record, this wagon on me stinks of cult trying to save a buddy

Referring to the wagon on him, I think. Fate is the only currently living player voting chess at this point. +10 FATE

Fate goes off on me for not giving it
I still refuse? Why in the fuck would I do that, instead of just pacifying?

Because Fate is your partner? Seems like a weird post altogether, possibly something meant to look like there's "no way" Fate would be on a team with chess. +5 FATE

Unvote
Vote: IS

lolz forgot

wait
wouldn't the BV wagon have a better shot
<_>

Votes IS and almost immediately undercuts it. He doesn't want this wagon to go through. This was at the end of the day though, so this shouldn't necessarily be as strong as it otherwise would have. +10 IS

---

Past this line Starbuck is definitely part of the cult. She may have already been part of it (although that's very doubful, see the end of my post), but we know for a fact that by this point she had to have been recruited).

I also would safely say maybe GreyIce or ender would be good choices.

ender flipped town, so this makes Grey look horrible in comparison. +30 ICE

GREYICE
WHY THE HELL IS STARBUCK TOWN?

I don't like this. This feels to me like something that could've taken place in a QT. chess tells Grey to call Starbuck town no matter what chess says or does. Feels really fake. +15 ICE

That's Fate. That's just something you have to get used to.

It's a null tell because he does it as either town or scum.

"Leave Fate alone". +25 FATE

GREYICE
YOU NEVER EXPLAIEND
WHY YOU THINK SHE IS TOWN
I WANT TO EHAR THIS

More pushing. +10 ICE

Btw, notice how quick IS came to chesskid's defense when I pointed out this SCUMSLIP.

Possible bussing here. +15 IS

I didn't say IS was scum. I was pointing out how quick he was to defend. He could very well be town.

Clumsy sounding backtrack on IS. +20 IS

Rufflig is jusat lowradaring since after D2.
Probable N2 recruit right there.

Bussing. +15 RUF

SO
LYNCH STARBUCK
VIG IS

Starbuck flipped scum, IS probably wouldn't based on this. -20 IS

---

Past this line Starbuck goes off the deep end. I'm not exactly sure what to believe and what not to believe, but she mentions a lot of different people.

Grey, I promise you don't waste your shot on IS. For the good of the town, hit chesskid.

Crazy woman outting her partners. I don't know what she's trying to do here, so I'm reading this as null to both Grey and IS. Null IS/ICE

bv, make sure you get a protect on either IS, Fate or Grey.

Likely one scum in this group. +15 FATE, IS, ICE

I've got a town read on Fate that's brighter than the lights in Vegas.

This keeps with her townFate read from before she went crazy. +10 FATE

L-0

Wraith

(Fate, The Rufflig,

chesskid3

, GreyICE, raivann, RedCoyote,

ender241

)
L-6

bv310

(

Starbuck

)
L-6

ender241

(

Wraith

)
L-6

Jack

(Internet Stranger)

Not voting:

bv310, Amrun, Jack

Wonderful how all our confirmed townies aren't voting. I learn next to nothing here except that everyone should get a few points except for IS. +5 ALL (except IS)

L-3

chesskid3

(

Jack, bv310

,

Starbuck

)
L-4 Fate (Internet Stranger,

ender241

)
L-4 Internet Stranger (Fate,

chesskid3

)
L-5

bv310

(GreyICE)
L-5 RedCoyote (Raivann)
L-5 Raivann (The Rufflig)
L-5

ender241

(RedCoyote)

This is such a clusterfuck it's hard to tell who to give any points to. Unbelievably and embarassingly, every living player here was on a different lynch. The final vote count for D3 isn't much different. Both Rufflig and I didn't get to vote because the day went by far too quickly. Null ALL

probably a delayed recruit mechanic

If this is true, which I'm thinking it probably is, then it was probably something like chess bit someone at night and that person didn't turn scum until the next night. He bit someone on N0, N1, and N2. He probably bit Starbuck on N1 (and her alignment changed N2). Here's some evidence that speaks to that theory, and it also makes sense with the theme as it takes a while for the zombie bite to turn someone.

As a sidenote, if you read chess' posts on D2, he came out very strong against Starbuck. Stronger than I remember. This definitely tells me that Starbuck and chess were at each other's throats in the QT during N2. All was not right in zombieland.

Anyways, there's still either one or two zombies by my calculations. If it's a lone zombie, either he just became a zombie last night or has been a zombie since D2.

Onto the calculations:

FATE - 10 + 5 + 25 + 15 + 10 + 5 = 70
ICE - 20 + 30 + 15 + 10 + 15 + 5 = 95
IS - 5 + 10 + 15 + 20 - 10 + 15 = 55
RAV - 20 + 5 = 25
RUF - 5 + 15 + 15 + 5 = 40

Now by my calculations, Grey is clearly on top of the list as the person who has the most instances of weird interactions between Starbuck and chess. This doesn't take into account lurking, claims, or any D4 activity. I haven't even read D4 yet because I've been busy with this. Right now I'm pretty tired. Grey has a confirmable shot though, so I'm going to hold off on that for the time being. No one else counters this claim, right?

Also, Grey, didn't you mention somewhere that you can only use your shot at day OR night, and no consecutively or something like that? Refresh my memory or point me to that post.

The second most likely cult is Fate, although IS is fairly close.

I'll

Vote: Fate

and come back to read D4 later.

DO NOT LYNCH ANYONE, EVEN FATE, BEFORE I GET BACK HERE AT LEAST ONCE MORE.

Unlike the rest of you losers, I actually have stuff to do outside of mafia.

[RedCoyote]

So, who hangs today? InternetStranger or Fate?

Vote: Internet Stranger Let's lynch this scummy doofus.

Both would be decent choices, Fate would be better for the reasoning I touched on. Especially the strange things chess/Starbuck have had to say about him.

---

Im leaning towards RC for the obvious lurking actually.

IS, of course, number one. The person who didn't show up for a week into the game comes at me for lurking. By the way, did I tell you to hammer chess yesterday before everyone could get in here? You think it bought you a little creditabilty to dominate the entire conversation, eh? You and Fate? You think I wouldn't notice the things Starbuck said about you? She basically outted you in post 802, btw.

---

BTW RUFFLIG IS THE LAST CULT. I HAVE INFO AS TO WHY

Out it. We're either at MYLO or we're about to be. We have to get this lynch right. Funny how the person who is most likely to be scum based on interactions with Starbuck/chess has info on "the last cult member".

Yeah, somehow I don't exactly take your word for it.

---

I'm claiming my mantle. I am confirmed town. I'm literally, at the moment, the only living person who cannot be in the cult.

I've been thinking about this. Although your gun doesn't confirm you (remember this? I knew it would come in handy), your shot does. Not shooting Starbuck would've basically guaranteed you a win as cult.

We are not voting yet. Period.

Eh, I'll vote when I want. Deal with it.

---

The second thing that I believe is that she was recruited night 2. As far as I can tell, GreyICE received notice of her gun on day 2 and she has proven that she received it by killing Starbuck. I don't believe tony is handing out any guns to the cult, so Grey was town on day 2. chesskid3 flipped recruiter -- Starbuck flipped zombie. Hence, I think the cult can not recruit any longer and did not recruit GreyICE prior to recruiting Starbuck and could not have recruited GreyICE afterwards. That leaves Internet Stranger and Fate.

Did you read over the things they had to say about them two? Initially I got a lot of bad vibes on Grey, but his shot is what gives him a thumbs up as non-cult. Still, Fate and IS were a good degree apart from you and Raviann, which is why we need to throw a vote in that direction before we even try anything else. Even if Grey isn't town, we can't risk lynching him now and potentially letting the cult take the victory, we have to lynch one of the likeliest cult candidates today.

---

Im curious to know why Ruffig doesnt even Mention RC or Raivann as possible suspects.

Both Raviann and Rufflig are possible suspects, they just have very weak connections compared to you and especially Fate. Go read over chess and Starbuck's posts. You'll see the same things.

I would prefer to no claim and risk a lynch that will seriously fuck this town and let it lose than compromise my principle and claim. Im not scum, thats all I have to claim.

In other words, "I don't have a safeclaim, so everyone else go first while I look up a wiki".

(BTW, I realized I haven't claimed yet. It's not because I'm scared to claim, it's just because I wanted to make a damn post before y'all ended another day prematurely. Look at the end of this post).

And conspiracy or not, if RC never posts, you have nothing to validate his innocence.

Who is validating anything? Rufflig, like a logical townie, said that I didn't post yesterday so I have a null stance on the entire issue. You're the one who is trying to frame it like I have been ducking the game (when you're actually the one who didn't let me post yesterday).

I mean, sorry Starbuck screwed you over. That doesn't mean I'm not going to call you out on such an obvious attempt at smearing my name. I've been nothing but town this game, and I don't log on for a day and now I miss 14 pages because you don't have the balls to stand up to Starbuck. You're either a scum trying to rush this game through before the town can get their heads together and get on the same page, or you're too prideful to stop for two seconds and think about the game rather than your ego.

---

How I,

GOT CHESSKID LYNCHED OVER STARBUCK

?

And? You can't bus? What difference does it make if you have a CR if he's going to be shot overnight, Fate? Can you say red herring?

Merle Dixon, town badass. I start fights with people, and if they are cult, I kill them. If they are town, they are roleblocked.

Merle Dixon would be anti-town according to the theme. You may or may not be cult, but you certainly aren't part of the town.

RC and Rufflig are

BOTH

ignoring the fact we lyncehd the CR yesterday

It doesn't matter. Grey was on record as going to shoot whoever wasn't lynched, especially after the flip. This is misdirection. Why would you need to use some WIFOM trick to "confirm" yourself and IS if you have a role that supposedly does it?

---

I just want the vig to claim at this point.

Here, but I didn't shoot bv. I just received a gun last night. I

think

it was Andrea's (ender's) gun. Mod didn't specify. I don't know if ender was the original owner of the gun or not. I found it overnight. Grey, obviously without copying your PM, can you confirm that you received a similar PM from the Mod? Before that I was a VT. I can use my shot tonight at the earliest (which is another reason why I think there are action delays in this game).

My claim is Carol Peletier.

[RedCoyote]

I'm not going to "miss the deadline" and I'm not going to "be lurking for 14 days". You people are insatiable. Calm yourselves. I check the website every 24 hours. Now I get to go over the last four pages and respond to everything.

Everyone needs to just chill out. You guys do realize we basically have this game in the bag here, right? The cult absolutely imploded on itself. So quit checking the thread every hour to look for updates. I post at night during the week and mostly during the weekends as well.

Don't wait up for me either. If you aren't asleep by now, go get some shut eye. When you come back tomorrow we can start the whole process over again.

[RedCoyote]

I would love to lynch the hell out of RC right now based on the craptastic arguments (like saying thet *I* was lurking? ME?!?! LOLOLOL) and that parked vote on Fate.

Go read the first ten pages. Tell me how many times your name comes up and get back to me.

I'm not lurking, IS. Clearly you don't understand the concept of time or you're just trying to frame me. It's a ridiculous argument. Posting once a day is reasonable, and for you to argue otherwise is not. Get that through your head.

Now that I think about it, the fact that Fate changed his vote to Chesskid at any point during the Starbuck fiasco is actually a positive for him than a negative. If I was cult scum, I would never put my recruiter at risk at any point.

I like how you and Fate keep bringing up this point (this is the fourth time now by my count) despite the fact that I just debunked it. Grey had a shot. You were talking about Grey having a shot. Starbuck talked about Grey having a shot. Both of them were being killed. Now you using this opportunity to say that you/Fate voted the CR as though it wasn't a forgone conclusion is scummy.

---

RedCoyote - the gun I found was found in Shane's tent. We have several things confirmed now.

Okay, that makes sense. I think all the guns are accounted for then (except for bv's shot, which I'm thinking might be the cult team now).

I dunno if this is his idea of a joke, because a cop showing up in LyLo clearing two corpses and a claimed town is normally something that would make me scream "lynch it with fire!"

No kidding. Especially when he claims a role name that is a villain on the show.

---

Trying to frame people for having "interactions" with his CR? Yeah, since both cult were power lurking ONLY TOWN had interactions with the CR, go figure.

Who are you talking to? I know you're not talking to me.

The fact that you'd argue that interactions between cult members and other players is all redudant and unhelpful makes me laugh out loud in reality.

Oh, Fate, keep fighting. It'll all be over soon. I'm so sorry about Starbuck.

---

Okay, I'm game. Everyone else on board? Raivenn or Ruffles, whose the scum?

Aren't you forgetting someone?

---

RC votes Fate, but shoots on me.

I'll only shoot you if we lynch Fate today.

Also, Rufflig's and RC's play suddenly restarted after Chesskid and Starbuck died.

I posted the exact same way throughout this game.

You

didn't let me post D3, and I'll keep saying it until you stop lying.

---

Well if he's all like "No, I don't like the idea of becoming confirmed town AND killing my biggest scumread" when he posts here, I'm going to shift my vote so fast onlookers are getting whiplash.

Grey, I made my scumreads clear. Fate >> IS >>>>>>>>>> Rufflig >> Raivann.

IS and Fate are both very likely to be scum:

Post 742 - Implicates Fate

Post 802 - Implicates IS

Post 863 - Implicates Fate & IS

Post 867 - Implicates Fate

Starbuck is not a fly by night troll. She went out of her way to stop short of outting her entire cult team. You know why, Grey? Because one of these "town reads" of hers is where she hid it. This, coupled with both of their D4 play, fits together perfectly.

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Don't worry Ruff I won't hammer. RC is town too. I will only vote Fate,IS, or GreyICE today.

Thank goodness we have a townie here.

I kinda wanna leave IS as the last zombie crawling around with no legs while I board up the windows and turn the power on.

Here's your chance IS you've been wanting to lynch Fate all game.

Lol, I absolutely love this post. IS, the man is right. Now's your chance to make good on all the bussing nonsense you made us sit through for the first half of the game. Fate is up on a silver platter for you.

Oh, wait, zombies don't like to eat their own, huh?

You only voted chess after Starbuck pretty much made you.

This. Same with IS. Neither of them had any balls. They got the right results for the wrong reasons.

That fact of the matter is, it doesn't prove jack. Both cult members were dying. Grey had already said he had a gun D3. Oops, forgot about that one, huh, IS? Huh, Fate?

---

RC.
PLEASE TELL ME YOURE TOWN.

You know I am.

God, I can't wait to see that QT. Did you try to talk Starbuck out of all of that nonsense at all? You two should get into acting. Seriously.

---

GreyIce got bit N1. He went from being a townie force to- Oh gawd I have no clue whats going on. Yeah right, not buying it,sir.

If GreyICE wanted to prove his townie vig kill, he should have shot during day.

Wouldn't it have been a victory had he not shot Starbuck though? Unless there's only one other cult member. I haven't done much research in that regard. I'm assuming a worst case scenario here.

---

I am NOT his hero, he hates me. He wants 12 of himself in a game with me so he can annoy me 12 times as much. He enjoys my suffering.

Don't we all.

You may re-read Red and Rufflig's ISO and see no scum intent, but thats because they haven't even posted. There's no TOWN intent, because they were lurking to victory. And now they've come out of the woodwork because there's no more recruiter, with crazy theories explaining how me and IS are scum.

You're so full of it. Don't try to take advantage of the town members who've never played with me. You and IS both know only post once a day a majority of the time. I've even joked with you, Fate, about it before when you kept me posting once or twice.

[RedCoyote]

I've seen more than enough.

I'm not voting Rufflig, Raivann, or Grey. Period.

I will not accept a wagon on anyone besides Fate or IS. Sorry, Grey, this is too important to squander our lynch. Rufflig and Raivann are townies, I'm almost certain of it. Knowing chess as well as I do, he would not waste an opportunity as a CR to recruit Fate. As Fate said, chess absolutely loves to torment him. Fate's claim is absolute bunk, as we both agree on. That being said, I'll be happy to shoot him tonight and give him a chance to "confirm" himself. If we're going to shoot him though, then we're going to be lynching IS today. He's miles away more scummy than Rufflig or Raivann. Look at the quotes I provided and explain with me how you could ever consider IS or Fate to be town.

[RedCoyote]

Red reads an analysis on why fate-scum cannot win unless he has Red Coyote as a partner.

You're assuming Fate is till the truth. If he's scum why would he tell the truth, Grey? IS isn't cleared at all (and neither is Fate). Regardless of whatever fake power, "I lynched the CR", "I don't lurk", bs they try and sell us.

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If youre so dead set on Fate, why cant you just shoot him tonight then? We still would win, right?

Assume I was scum. You lynch Rufflig, shoot Fate, zombies will probably eat ICE, then you and Raivann can autolynch me tomorrow.

No. Fate's "shot" would go through. He has a Vig power on town members.

Three townies and one cult would die. Ergo, cult win.

Nice trick, scum, but Fate already screwed that opportunity out on you with his silly claim.

Nice you see you suddenly posting 4 times in the last few hours RC.

Now I get to go over the last four pages and respond to everything.

I'm in other games, IS. Cut it out. I just want to scream at you so badly. Your so absolutely fake, but you've got Grey absolutely wrapped around your finger.

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Lynching a cultist puts the town BEHIND.

What in the hell are you talking about Grey? We must lynch a cult today if there's two cult remaining.

We are not lynching someone who is potentially cop cleared in MyLo. Period. Also, there ARE no villains in this game - Chesskid was the recruiter, everyone else is town until recruited.

Spoken like a true SK.

Look, fact of the matter is, there are only two people I really think are cult. Go back over and read through chess and D3 Starbuck. It's the most objective thing you can do in a cult game. Don't listen to me and don't listen to them. Do it for yourself. We have a good chance at winning this, but not if we fuck today up.

If fate flips scum, well, his vig is false, and one of the two of us will be in LyLo.

That's why we lynch him.

He's not the last zombie, it's you and Rufflig.

Knock the confirmation bias off and listen to me instead of just dismissing what I have to say.

[RedCoyote]

My last post was rushed a little bit because I was leaving the office, but let me state this again.

1) We lynch Rufflig. According to you, he flips town.
2) You use your 1-shot vig. You shoot Fate. fate is lying, flips zombie. Night kill is either you or me, since we're now both confirmed town.
3) LyLo is You/Me + Raivenn + Internet Stranger. We lynch Stranger, good game.

I start fights with people, and if they are cult, I kill them.

If they are town, they are roleblocked

.

(emphasis added)

Step 2 fails. Fate won't die.

I mean, I think the claim is bullshit, but, luckily, we don't have to risk my victory on the odds of my shot going through. Now I'm confident enough in my reads to be willing to lynch IS (because I actually read the game after Starbuck/chess flipped), but we cannot lose two townies without killing any cult, Grey. That's too risky.

Are you still online?

[RedCoyote]

Oh well. If the claim is bullshit, RC, risk it. Remember, town started off with this role. Whatever else we may or may not know, it was a town role to start with.

Oh well?

Yeah, and this was

before

the Starbuck fiasco, so that makes it doubly relevant.

Just town roles and converts.

And Fate was one of them.

You can't say that Rufflig's behavior is town. He's scum, no questions.

I can and will.

If you'd use objective criteria to analyze the situation rather than letting your gut dictate what "seems" the be the smart move, I think you'd be convinced yourself.

[RedCoyote]

As a sidebar, I happen to know that chess would've recruited Fate for the lulz, btw. I've played with both of them multiple times in a variety of games across the forum. As much as they screw around with each other, they both know the other plays well.

Your cavalier attitude is going to lose us the game, Grey. Fate is the only surefire bet as cult, and I'm not going to play outguess the Mod just to stroke your ego. We have this game won and you're letting whatever grand scheme you have cooked up in your head get in the way of that.

[RedCoyote]

Does Fate have the power role or not? Yes or no? Your position appears to be that the claim is total obvious bullshit, and that we can't possibly follow my plan because the claim is probably legit and you'll get roleblocked.

It doesn't matter whether I believe it or not (I don't), it's not worth risking the victory when it's a guaranteed victory to kill Fate now.

If Rufflig flips town after being lynched and Fate is telling the truth, it's game over regardless of what I do.
If Fate flips town after being lynched and is telling the truth, it's a guaranteed victory.

[RedCoyote]

Congrats, Fate. I think we can all agree the game had been tainted, but that doesn't take away from the fact that you made it standing all the way to D5 and took your victory. Your original claim had everyone in your pocket on D4, and D5 was all you. You got IS to move too fast and stole the victory from a town that really had not earned it to begin with. Everything else aside, you should be proud of this.

As far as Starbuck goes, you know, what can you say? Live and learn. This is the first game on MS with any major problems of that nature, so I'd say that's not so bad. It's just, oh, man, it really does sting. Not even so much for me really (although I'll admit it broke my heart to come back to this thread and read her posts), but for my fellow teammates. There's the one cardinal rule in this game we all play here: you do not betray your team. I'll never in a million years understand what she did or why, but, in the end, it's just a game. Having seen her posts on GD, I can tell she's a very strong, honorable person outside of the realm of Internet forum games. That's all that counts.

chess absolutely deserves his props for what I firmly believe would've and should've been a winning performance. I tried the best I could to win this one for you, chess, really I did. I know Rufflig did too. We were both put in such an awkward position, I just had never had to approach a situation like that ever before. Believe me, I'd have put my foot down on recruiting Jack D3 had it even crossed my mind for a second what the fallout would've been otherwise.

Tony, you did an excellent job, as always. I absolutely love your setups. I thought this setup, too, was beautifully contstructed and would actually love to play it again with the right people. Your poems are also so great, so, you know, whenever you do run the inevitable sequel to Hack Poetry, I'm already there. If Starbuck won't, I'd like to apologize on her behalf. You really didn't deserve to have to deal with that sort of emotional drama, and you handled the situation in the best way I think a Moderator could've.

I do hope that Starbuck understands why we may feel disappointed in her, even if she doesn't necessarily think she's wrong for what she did. Like I said, from what I've seen of her on the website, I can tell she's definitely not a troll or a miscreant. She comes across as an upstanding citizen who serves her country proudly and a wonderful human being who just happens to wear her heart on her sleeve. She simply doesn't have the emotional restraint required to play the game of Mafia. That's not a personal slight against her, you know, and I'd absolutely love to be her friend and play a Mish Mash game with her any time. In a way it's kind of a good thing if you feel so emotionally charged by this game that you just can't take it, but there's just that one line you cannot cross in this game and expect people to ever put any trust in you again. The game of Mafia is just too dependent on the individual to uphold a certain honor system (a devious honor system) that when one person dares to break that, well, heck, you can see the aftermath right here in this thread. It's shocking, controversial, and contentious.

[RedCoyote]

I also want to state, here and now, that chess is a great person. He gets a lot of unfair treatment on this website, and I, for one, have no idea why. As far as I know, chess in no way harbors any sort of ill will towards Starbuck or anyone else. I can state unequivocally that there was no sort of ulterior motive in recruiting Starbuck to harass her or bully her, and the very suggestion is offensive and unwarranted. Rest assured, had chess or Rufflig wanted to recruit Starbuck simply to cause her duress, I'd have shot it down. That was never the intention. The intention was, as it always should be, to win this game.