Mini 1123 - The Walking Dead - Game Over

[The Rufflig]

Blatant OMGUS
VOTE: Chesskid3
for voting for me in the bloody QUEUE!

[The Rufflig]

I'm not feeling this Ender is scum vibe. I'd sooner suspect those who voted for him on such terrible logic.
In other news, some of you are not paying attention to what the mod has written.

Yes, there was a night 0. You needed to have watched the show to pre-in to the game, however that requirement could be waved if you had played in one of the mod's games before. If the mod required flavor knowledge for regular /in, then I missed it. I haven't watched the show, though I did read up on the episodes on A&E's website. I hadn't actually heard of the show until I signed up.

[The Rufflig]

obvSCUM? Nope. I think ender241 is obvTOWN. I also think Amrun is town. The rest of the people on ender241 I either don't have a read on or are coming off quite scummy.

[The Rufflig]

As in, you think Wraith is one of the scum not on the wagon? It is a definite possibility. Just this once, for you Fate.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Wraith

[The Rufflig]

Personally, I'm eager to see what bv310 and Internet Stranger have to say.

------

The pennyfarthing avatar was made specifically for The Prisoner game, Jack. That image was closely associated with the show. I'm curious as to how my current avatar makes me sound. I should probably stick with an avatar and not change it every couple of games though.

[The Rufflig]

Well, that was a little confusing. Internet Stranger apparently has the right read on ender241 and Amrun, but for the wrong reason.

As for Jack, he's playing like he did when I last played with him. I ended up shouting at him a lot for his level of activity and yet he happened to be townie - although I wasn't able to prove that until mylo. I expect he is going to be just as hard to deal with this game.

As for me lurking? Yeah, I guess so, if you go by number of posts. On the other hand, who else rose up and shouted that ender was a townie while others were talking about hammering him? [sarcasm] Obvious lurking there. [/sarcasm]

[The Rufflig]

True, you did speak up before me. However, I got the feeling that you were neutral on ender241.

My point was that I took a strong stand in defense of someone while others were looking for his lynch. Such action is generally not referred to as lurking.

I actually have more to say on the subject, but it will have to wait until after bv310 posts.

p-edit: Nice question, GreyICE.

[The Rufflig]

Damn it, Starbuck. I don't want to focus on you right now. Couldn't you have kept away from calling what you did a strong defense of ender241?

Your rapid defense of him was strange, starbuck.

It really wasn't a defense, more like a disagreement.

[The Rufflig]

Guess I'll need to speak up early.

ender241 paraphrased part of a vanilla townie role. Amrun caught the reference and quoted more of the same role. I caught both references because I have the exact same pm as they do which is why I spoke up about them. Think what you will of ender241, but he didn't start the game as anything but a vanilla townie. None of the three of us started as scum, nor is any one of us a cult recruiter. For town, this should make things eaiser to find scum. Scum gets a terrible choice a) to go after the (confirmed) vanilla townies b) go after the power roles and leave us alone.

To be frank, the fact that apparently only three of us were given the same pm implies some rather interesting stuff.

[The Rufflig]

A claim that only matches 2 other vanilla townie pms? Seriously?

[The Rufflig]

So you think there are 3 scum, 2 vts and 8 efing town power roles? Go on - pull the other one!

[The Rufflig]

Rufflig, unless those two are somehow confirmed to you, don't act like they are. They're scummy as hell, and you trying to say they're guaranteed town because of some part of a VT PM matching means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I've been scum in a TM game before, and he gives full PMs as fakeclaims.

Which game was this? I'm having trouble finding any game where tonymontana gives out fake PMs. I did find one game where he gave out the safe names to claim when the scum fell below a 1:3 ratio.

[The Rufflig]

I think we need to take Amrun at face value for a moment. Amrun had a vt role pm. She flipped 1-shot vig. I suspect we will see more of that occurring to balance out our not-so-phantom cult. Given that, I don't see a problem with Jack having had a vig role of some flavor since the beginning of the game.

@bv310: I'm still waiting for the name of the game where TonyMontana gave out vanilla townie PMs to the scum.

@Raivann: Assuming, I'm wrong about the existence of a cult, I can see why you would have suspicion of Jack. I'm not following your train of thought for Fate and GreyICE, though. Could you explain?

[The Rufflig]

Vote: RedCoyote

[The Rufflig]

There are a lot of little things I don't like about RedCoyote. Let's start with this from day 1:

Let's see... Amrun is definitely town, Jack is definitely town, chess is probably town, and Fate is probably town. Not too bad!

Jack, chesskid3 and Fate are probably town??? Those three players style of play is to make themselves unreadable no matter what alignment they happen to be -- which is great if they are scum, but really hurts the town if they are townies. I'd best stop there before I start ranting about the trio. The point is that I don't see how on earth he came up with probable townie reads on the trio.

His latest wall post seemed to me to boil down to a really long "me too" post. There was one part of that post that I really disliked:

You aren't chesskid, and you are blatantly saying that behavior that I think to be scummy is a joke. I think you are trying to protect your buddy and answer for him. Not liking this at all.

I didn't like your bv angle all that much, but I have to admit this is a pretty good point. Why Amrun decided to protect chess out of nowhere, I suspect, would've seemed awkward at the time.

No, no, no, no, NO! In fact, Starbuck mentions that Amrun was answering for two different people. This shows that it was more of Amrun's playing style than scummy behavior, but even putting that aside, it is still wrong. Starbuck was arguing that Amrun was scummy for defending his scum buddy chesskid3. This argument relies on the "fact" that chesskid3 is scummy - which had not been proven. Bad argument! Not good point!

Overall, RedCoyote has been flying under my radar almost as much as Raivann. RedCoyote seems to be making just enough noise to try and get people to forget that he isn't really contributing and I don't like it.

-----------

Do I need to explain why Raivann seems scummy? Most recently, I was very displeased by his answer to my question. I wanted something to get a better read on him - to give me a reason not to think he is scum or not a deliberate lurker. I got "meat maggots".

-----------

I'm also upset with Jack and bv310. I spent a lot of time and effort trying to make people believe that ender241 and Amrun had to have started out townies. bv310 undermined my efforts by misremembering(?) who gives out fake PMs to scum. Jack stated on day 1 that he believed me. I press bv310 on his undermining only to have Jack shoot Amrun on suspicion of being a bloody cultist recruiter before bv310's answer. Shortly thereafter, bv310's admission of fault shows up. Gah! What could have been avoided!

I'm left with more questions. Did bv310 really misremember? Why did Jack backtrack on his belief that Amrun did not start out as anything but a vanilla townie? Did Jack rush the shot on purpose, because I was trying to pin bv310 down?

-----------

Fate and chesskid3: UGH! Yeah, that about sums it up.

[The Rufflig]

Oh, yeah. I forgot to mention one other thing.
Did everyone notice that the vote count did not reset after the day kill?

[The Rufflig]

First, where did I mention that Amrun was answering 2 different people? And how does this show it was her playing style?

You really shouldn't press me on these details, because I will show you.

@Starbuck: Here's the full post that I didn't like. Right in the same post is where you state it. That's twice now that you haven't remembered what you said in this game. Perhaps because you don't actually believe what you are telling us? Anyway, one of the ways I look for scum is based on connections to other scum. I can't just say Starbuck is scummy for defending ender241 -- ender241 has to be scummy, first. If ender241 flips townie, the argument that Starbuck is scummy because she defended ender241 is null and void. A good part of your argument is that Amrun has to be scum because he is defending others. You have to prove the ones he is defending is scummy, first. Secondly, Amrun's flip gives no information about the alignment of those he was defending. Your whole argument is a variation of the Chainsaw defense which requires that the person being defended be scum. Quite frankly, if you hadn't made a subsequent post with the other reasons you thought Amrun was scummy and if bv310 hadn't muddied the waters about Amrun, I would have voted for you over this.

You aren't chesskid, and you are blatantly saying that behavior that I think to be scummy is a joke. I think you are trying to protect your buddy and answer for him. Not liking this at all.

I doubt that he didn't know the game started. I was busy on the day that PMs came out and didn't get to reply to the mod and already had a PM sitting in my box from the mod when I got home stating that he didn't think I could keep up with the game. So I HIGHLY doubt that he didn't know the game started.

Now that's 2 people that you are answering for and making excuses for.

Vote: Amrun

I'm gonna call it right now. Amrun, bv, and chess for scum 2011.

However, that wasn't the point of my argument.

---------------

I disagree. chess' alignment is beside the point really. Amrun sticking up for chess is the issue. Amrun shouldn't have known chess' alignment (whatever it was) unless she had a scum role (or like a Mason or something).

chesskid3's alignment is the point! For instance, if someone shot ender241 right now and he flipped cult recruiter or mafia that would reflect really badly on Starbuck and myself because we defended him. However, if he flipped townie, then no scumminess is transfered to Starbuck and myself. If Amrun is scummy for defending chesskid3, then Starbuck and I have to be scummy for defending ender241 -- you can't have it both efing ways! The alignment of the one being defended is that efing important

[The Rufflig]

You know what sums up you? I don't think you like anyone here as town.

Since I've got about half the town on my likely scum list, I'd have to agree with you.

I was being a little tongue-in-cheek here, but the main thing I wanted to convey was I liked all of their posts.

Yeah, that's the thing - were you really being tongue-in-cheek? chesskid3 and Fate make it a practise to be flippant so they can walk away from anything they say with that excuse. Jack uses a different style to help make himself unreadable. It's not bad to be unreadable, if you're scum but it is terrible play if you're town. Why? That sort of play expands the list of potential scum for the town instead of helping to shrink down the list of potential scum. Which makes it so much harder for the town to weed out the true scum from the scum-wannabe townies.

-------------

So, Fate, now that you've been purified of the zombie curse, tell us: who were your scum-mates? Yeah, I'm not believing this garbage. Nor does it fit themewise afaik.

[The Rufflig]

If this is about the disagreement/defense issue, that was a different thing.

Uh, no - that IS what we were talking about.

I actually wanted you to show the class what you were talking about with the current situation so I can correct you. It's not that I did not remember what I said.

Then maybe you should have actually asked about what you wanted me to talk about? I have no idea what you are trying to get at here as you haven't brought up any other points to discuss??

[The Rufflig]

Show me.

[The Rufflig]

Just one, Fate? Ok.

I'd hammer.

Amrum your vote won't hammer.

And I promise I won't hammer him, it was just a gambit to pressure him. I really never had any intention of hammering him.

And keep in mind I haven't forgotten this from last game:

VOTE: Ethereal Cookie

OOPS

[The Rufflig]

No, Fate. Your "I'd hammer" was your true intention post. If it had all been a ploy, you wouldn't have asked Amrun to put ender at L-1 -- not when you could have done so yourself. You intended to hammer ender. Its the exact same thing you pulled with Ethereal Cookie - you got off the wagon to get someone else to put him at L-1 then HAMMER!

Nope - not a gambit to put pressure on ender nor an honest read of him.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Starbuck

[The Rufflig]

*sigh*
UNVOTE:
That's all right - I'll let you have all the rope you want, chesskid3. Where you end up on it depends on you.
VOTE: Fate

[The Rufflig]

It is the only other game, I've been in with you, Fate.
But don't worry, this is only a gambit to pressure you - I have no real intention of seeing you hammered.
Oh wait, I was lying about that - no, I was lying about lying about -- um, what was I saying?

[The Rufflig]

My intention was to get Ender lynch and that was goddamn clear from my posts.

So clear that you had no chance to try and trick Amrun into helping you hammer ender241, right? Well, it was clear to me anyhow, but I've played with you before and seen you try and pull this stunt. My point wasn't that you're scummy because of this behavior, it was that you deliberately make yourself difficult to read. Would you prefer me to refer to your playstyle as facetious or waggish over flippant?

As far as I can tell, you still think ender241 is scum. I can't tell if I've ever convinced you that ender241 started out as a vt.
UNVOTE:

-------------

@RedCoyote: Any comments?

I think it was Inception, Rufflig, but I may have TM confused with Red_Coyote.

I finally took a peek at Inception; it is indeed a TonyMontana game -- in fact, you were scum with bv310 in that game. You've been in a position to comment on what I've been trying to nail down for some time now, but you've said nothing?

[The Rufflig]

You're pulling this crap now with about 2 days left until deadline, Fate?
WikiLeaks exposed your super-secret scum tell months ago: anyone who makes a case against Fate is scum. Therefore this Internet Stranger is scum - bandwagon gogogo garbage.
You went back and manufactured a case on Internet Stranger just because he made one on you. I don't like this bandwagon-of-the-day.

[The Rufflig]

VOTE: Raivann
Other people I'm ok with to lynch today are Fate, chesskid3, bv310 and RedCoyote.
I will not support a lynch of Jack, ender241, Starbuck, GreyICE, Internet Stranger or myself today.

[The Rufflig]

L-4 bv310 (RedCoyote, chesskid

31

)
L-4 Fate (Internet Stranger, ender

24

)

chesskid31 is a thief! He stole a "1" from ender24.

That bastard. And apparantly he did it before vote vount five. Don't worry, I will give ender his 1 back, as well as chesskid's 3 to make things right next time -.-

[The Rufflig]

I don't see any inconsistencies between bv310's claim and his play - not that there's a whole lot of it.

Assuming bv310 is telling the truth, either:
a) No cult - bv310 stopped nk and Fate is town
b) cult - Fate is town or part of the cult

So Fate isn't completely cleared even if bv310 is telling the truth.

I'm not entirely convinced of bv310's claim. The last game I was in, we had a similar situation (with Nachomamma8 playing the part of bv310). When the town thought they had lynched Nacho (but hadn't), Nachomamma8 went and wrote an angry post-lynch tell all post with a claim of survivor in it. Nachomamma8 lied - he was able to count the votes.

----------

Fate doesn't count votes. He just likes to hammer. He failed to hammer Ethereal Cookie twice in a row last game because he doesn't count.

[The Rufflig]

Just checking in, I don't have a lot of time, atm.

Initial impression: from tony's opening post today - we're in mylo. If Jack gets modkilled we may be in lylo - worst case scenario: 4 cult, 5 townies left. If this happens and bv310 is townie - he absolutely has to be replaced or town will lack the votes to lynch scum. If GreyICE has a shot to use tonight- it might not make any difference, if we don't hit scum today.

[The Rufflig]

Disturbingly enough, Raivann came to the same conclusion that I did: Internet Stranger or Fate - with a preference towards Internet Stranger.

VOTE: Internet Stranger

[The Rufflig]

I guess I was wrong.
VOTE: Fate

If you had information, you would have given it - you're obviously lying.

[The Rufflig]

Oh, I get it - you're protecting your buddy Internet Stranger. Nice ploy, but I'm onto you both now.

[The Rufflig]

Yeah, so about a half an hour now now waiting for Fate to make his fake claim. I'll check back later.
COME OUT AND PLAY, FATE!

[The Rufflig]

You don't have 30 seconds to type I'm a cop, I investigated x night 1, y, night 2, and The Rufflig night 3 -- The Rufflig is guilty? It didn't take me half that time to type that - but then I don't have to check my story for consistency. That is very disingenious of you, Fate. I could see you not having the time to find your breadcrumb and link it, but the rest? Nope.

Well, while I'm waiting how about I explain why I thought you or Internet Stranger was scummy? There are only a couple bits of what Starbuck said yesterday that I put a lot of faith in. The first was that the plan was for chesskid3 and the cult to bus Starbuck, which is why she turned on him. Looking over the voting record yesterday, there are only 3 people who voted for Starbuck other than chesskid3; those are Fate, Internet Stranger and GreyICE. Raivann never voted for Starbuck. I didn't cast a vote in my 1 post before the thread closed. RedCoyote presumably never had a chance to post at all. So either Starbuck got pissed because of only 1 of her allies bussing her (and the rest of the cult disobeying orders, mia or whatever) or she was being bussed by more than just chesskid3. I'm leaning to the latter.

The second thing that I believe is that she was recruited night 2. As far as I can tell, GreyICE received notice of her gun on day 2 and she has proven that she received it by killing Starbuck. I don't believe tony is handing out any guns to the cult, so Grey was town on day 2. chesskid3 flipped recruiter -- Starbuck flipped zombie. Hence, I think the cult can not recruit any longer and did not recruit GreyICE prior to recruiting Starbuck and could not have recruited GreyICE afterwards. That leaves Internet Stranger and Fate.

bv310 protected Fate night 1 and night 2. Now, just suppose for a moment that the cult has a nightkill: if chesskid3 (as the recruiter) performs the kill then the victim rises as part of the cult -- so a doctor protect might keep someone from being recruited since the victim wouldn't die (alternatively - the protect might just delay how long it takes for the victim to be turned into cult). Therefore, Internet Stranger was more likely to have been recruited than Fate -- as there was probably only 1 night in which Fate could have been recruited (night 0). I'm willing to bet the cult took out bv310 last night. I doubt any of the remaining cult actually has the power to make their victim rise as part of the cult so bv310 simply died. Anyone willing to claim the shot on bv310 and prove my speculation false?

[The Rufflig]

Funny, how you showed up right after GreyICE posted, but couldn't find time to back up your claim from hours ago, Fate. Convenient that you now get to hide behind a popcorn pecking order. Grey, I don't see how today can be anything other than a lynch of myself or Fate, at this point. I'm obviously not going to vote for myself. The only thing I see that needs to be examined and discussed is Fate's opening statement.

[The Rufflig]

Why didn't I mention them? Oh wait, I did mention them. IS fails reading 101.
Raivann is unlikely to be scum because he didn't buss Starbuck -- that was the cult's plan remember? He never put his vote on Starbuck. RC never posted - he may or may not be scum based on what we learned yesterday but oh look there were 2 people on Starbuck's wagon that we can't clear. One, possibly both of them are scum - I went for the person I felt was most likely to be scum. What's your excuse for failing to analyze the game, IS?

[The Rufflig]

Gee, so Starbuck turned on her cult leader for no reason then, IS? Threw a tirade for no reason? EPIC FAIL!!!

Obviously something upset Starbuck enough that she threw herself and chesskid3 to the town's mercy. And there was no plan? Go ahead then. Explain what happened yesterday.

Who said he was innocent? Still failing reading 101, IS.

[The Rufflig]

Let me humor you for a moment and say there was no actual conspiracy to bus Starbuck. We know that tony at least gave Starbuck the name of her fellow cultists - I would have expected that she would gain access to the qt at the same time so she could read any plans the cult might have made even if she couldn't participate in the qt right away. But lets say she didn't have access to the qt to read what the cult had in mind: for some reason Starbuck felt that she had been recruited just to be bussed by her cultists. Do you think she would have gotten so pissed if only 1 cultists was bussing her - usually that would be called distancing. The fact that there was no plan and that she thought she had been recruited just to be bussed by the cult is an even stronger indication that there was more than 1 cultist on her than if there had been an actual plan. Wouldn't you agree?

Either way, I find it highly likely that there was more than 1 cultist on Starbuck's wagon.

What's your analysis?

I claimed day 1, GreyICE - I never got any weapons.
Passing to FATE!

[The Rufflig]

I didn't see a claim there, Fate. You are up. Still scrambling to come up with a consistent story?

[The Rufflig]

I read Starbuck as being honest in telling off chesskid3 and why. However, I can't refute that last point, IS.

[The Rufflig]

I already gave you my analysis reguarding the cr. You've ignored it. I'll be ahppy to expand on it though. Starbuck had to yell to everyone's faces that she was cult and that chesskid3 was the cult recruiter. However Fate seems to think they would tunnel on Starbuck forever, shout Starbuck down and not switch targets. I'm of the opinion that the cult could read the writing on the wall just as easily as the town and went and voted for chesskid3. All this "I'm confirmed townie because I voted for chesskid3 yesterday" is pure bologna. At best it is a null read.

As far as Fate's claim goes - I'd rather not touch such slimy stuff with a ten foot pole. It took Fate over a day to make her vig/roleblocker hybrid claim in mylo
N0: didn't read my role pm - honest - I'm sorry
N1: ender241: I'm just going to ignore the fact that Rufflig just outed ender241 and Amrun as starting the game as vt and check out ender anyway.
D2:

What a bad fuckin shot. Amrun not shooting ender last night was worse

Why the hell make it look like you want ender241 dead at this point? I'll admit at the end of the day you called ender a townie, but you were inconsistent this day.
N2: Jack -- yeah, I thought that tony might be giving the cult guns to make them more overpowered and allow them to daykill
N3: Internet Stranger -- oh, hey - I had to throw in something reasonable

And I thought chesskid3's claim was bad.

[The Rufflig]

Oh yeah, mylo is a great time to make a claim on someone then run off and hide to think about what your claim actually is. Sure, you wanted everyone else to claim and reveal their power roles before you made your claim to make sure you wouldn't be counterclaimed. But you couldn't take 30 seconds to type in your claim and results because YOU HADN'T MADE THEM UP YET!

p-edit: Can't you guys ended the day before I got a chance to make a meaningful post day 3.

[The Rufflig]

Don't even read to see that I had faked a guilty on your cultbuddy?

Nice of you to admit that you were making this stuff up all along.

My reasoning did not make you"probtown" -- it called you "probscum". I gave you a slightly less probability to be scum than IS. If you're telling the truth, you've made the worst claim that I have seen in any game. Even in the newbie games they make better claims. But keep trying to make us believe that you're being truthful - you really don't have any other options left - do you?

[The Rufflig]

Seriously, Fate. 28 hours to come up with that crummy claim -- oh, but you've been at work the whole time. Oh no, I have to back up my claim, but I haven't made it, yet! Whatever shall I do? LURKLURKLURK

[The Rufflig]

I've had enough of trading insults. It's just cluttering the thread and serves no useful purpose. Wake me if you want to have a real discussion or if you have something intelligent to say.

[The Rufflig]

I already busted his argument as well. He has nothing. I wouldnt be shocked if the scum are RC and Rufflig, BUT, ICE has changed his playstyle the last couple days as well.

Busted? Nope. Let's recap.

Me: IS and/or Fate is scum. I think IS is scummier.
You: There was no plan!
Me: Which means there was more than one cult on Starbuck's wagon.
You: And Fate's vote triggered the meltdown.
Me: Which proves Fate is likelier to be scum than you.

My argument was that one or both of you are scum. So yeah, you proved Fate was more likely to be scum than yourself instead of the other way around. That hardly busts my argument.

Your theory, as far as I can tell, is that Starbuck got pissed at chesskid3 because he and he alone with no prior planning bussed her hard for no reason. I'd say your theory has more holes than a sieve.

Lastly, nice try throwing dirt on our confirmed townie.

[The Rufflig]

Of course, the reason Fate doesn't want to follow Grey's plan is because he is lying about his claim and can't actually kill anyone, but he'd love to "confirm" RC -- especially since he can't actually kill anyone.

[The Rufflig]

As far as RC's claim of having a gun goes - I doubt that as well. I suspect we got 1 gun for the recruiter and then 1 gun for each townie that was recruited. No shots left, no more shots will ever become available. We wasted our shots badly.

p-edit: Self-hammer and cause town to lose? No thanks.

[The Rufflig]

Here's a thought, Grey. What happens if we no lynch? We go into lylo unless town shoots townie. Fate claims he can't kill townies. Let him prove his claim tonight. How do your cases work out in that scenario?

[The Rufflig]

I don't think rc has a shot, but he would have to with hold his shot for Fate to prove his claim. Fate picks a person to target, by Fate's admission he has a 2 in 3 chance of hitting scum.

[The Rufflig]

What's a matter Fate? I'm giving you a chance to prove your claim. That isn't a problem is it?

[The Rufflig]

By the way, the gun flavor had already been paraphrased in thread. He didn't have to see ender's verbatim quote.

[The Rufflig]

Pfft! Way to fail town! My idea lets us avoid the Fate/RC scum lose scenario, but we can't do that! NO!!! We'd rather lose! This mislynch will cost town the game, but we don't care! We love Fate's obvious fake claim and won't listen to reason or logic! Fine! Enjoy pulling defeat out of the jaws of victory!

[The Rufflig]

Not a chance. Today has to end with my lynch or Fate's. That was obvious since Fate's opening gambit. At this point, all I can do is pray that neither RC or Raivann is scum. All that is standing between my lynch and a town loss is 1 scum logging on to hammer. *sigh* Not that we have the votes to lynch actual scum today.

[The Rufflig]

You've got blinders on. RC was always a suspect. He just became more suspicious with his fake gun claim. So, anyone want to make an actual case on me or are we just sticking with our gut feeling?

I'll answer one charge right now: my aggressiveness and activity level this day. I was falsely accussed of being scum with a transparent fake claim. Oh, sure - I could have just laid down and let myself get lynched and proved Fate's lie that way except that if you lynch me there is no tomorrow. So, yeah, the whole game is won or loss based on what happens today. I should just accept a loss on behalf of the town? Get real.

[The Rufflig]

@Raivann: Assuming, I'm wrong about the existence of a cult,*snip*

Rufflig: Doesn't think there's a cult.

Go back and read that again in context. I thought there was a cult - I acknowledged that I might be wrong.

Rufflig... trying to convince Fate that ender241 STARTED OUT as a VT. Why started out? I know if I start out as a VT in mininormals, I don't suddenly become scum. And ender didn't get a gun until D3. STARTED OUT. Rufflig now thinks there's a cult.

Why started out? For the simple reason that I still think there is a cult and I wanted to hit the damn cult recruiter. Weeding out those who couldn't be the recruiter would be a big help. All of that should be obvious.

I was willing to cut chesskid3 a little slack on day 2. I was threatening to lynch him if he didn't come through.

DAY 3: LETS VOTE FATE AND IS, I'LL WAIT FOR CHESS.

Day 3: I didn't vote - I was going to wait until that evening to make a post and my vote - never got the chance. I don't recall mentioning any suspects this day.

Day 4: Suspects and voting followed up by analysis and my reasons for belief.

[The Rufflig]

You might have a point, if I had ever dismissed RC as a suspect - which I've never done. He's been on my list of suspects since at least day 2.

[The Rufflig]

Tsk, tsk, Fate. You were doing so well, too. Then you had to go and blow your fake claim.

IF ALLL TOWN ARE NOT ON THIS CULT BAGS WAGON BEFORE THE DEADLINE HITS, THIS GAME IS AS GOOD AS FUCKING LOST.

Raivann...we need you to win this.

Gee, what happened to your gun with the magic bullets that only kill scum? If you were telling the truth, you could easily take out one of the cult members with it. Town doesn't need to lynch today - especially since your magic bullet would take the cult down to one member. Even if RC screwed up and shot a townie that would still leave 3 townies to 1 cult. Also, what happened to your gung ho approach to killing any time you can? I thought you would leap at the chance to personally take out a scum with your night shot. You don't have a kill Fate and never had one. I still can't believe you didn't get lynched for advancing that magic bullet claim.

[The Rufflig]

I'm not going to hammer myself so you can put your plan into effect. I want to be around when Fate has to backpedal on his fake claim so I can laugh at him. I deserve that much for having had to put up with all his herp derping. To be honest, I'm a little surprised that Tony didn't warn Fate over his personal attacks on Raivann.
But no, I don't suspect RC anymore. If he was working with Fate he would have hammered me. The battle lines have been clearly drawn with this standoff.

[The Rufflig]

Nope, still don't suspect Raivann and I don't suspect you, GreyICE.

[The Rufflig]

I'm willing to draw this out to a no lynch, Fate. Why? Because there will still be a tomorrow - LYLO. You don't want a no lynch because then you'd have to explain to everyone why you didn't kill one of the people on your wagon the following day -- you're a liar, Fate! And you're going down!

[The Rufflig]

@GreyICE: What can I say other than I'm offended. I'm offended that you thought so little of my intelligence that you believed you could manipulate me into hammering myself by telling an obvious lie straight to my face. You had already made who you suspect perfectly clear in the thread.