Mini 1127 Cult vs Masons OVER. TOWN WINS

[AurorusVox]

Vote: Parama

for trying to trick me way back when we played a Marathon game together, and because I want to sheep Chess at least once in my life. Baa.

I've never been a mason or cult on MS, recruiter or otherwise; never played with or against them here either. Complete MS cult/mason newbie \o/ So for me Andy's speculation was actually pretty useful...

[AurorusVox]

Unvote; Vote: Exe

Sorry Chess, Parama has a good point.

[AurorusVox]

Vote: AV

You are stealing Vas away from me.
I SAW HIM CALL YOU A SEXY SCUMMER. </3

(>")> ?

[AurorusVox]

It offered some possibilities of setup that I hadn't considered - since the setup is semi-open, that was useful. The ideas about there being probable backup/double cultists, and potentially no night kill, in particular, were things I hadn't really thought.

[AurorusVox]

This is not the AV I remember from Gorrad's FFC Mafia.

Unvote. Vote: AV

I'm assuming you mean because I'm sheeping Chess? Since GFFCM, I've played with Chess twice more, and learnt how to not get angry at him /shrugs

[AurorusVox]

you were scum in both
you bastard

Yeah so I saw how you worked,

knowing

you were town. It was interesting...and kinda dirty.

Andy, explain how Alliances should work and how they realistically work, in your opinion.

[AurorusVox]

I see. In that case Parama's reasons for finding Exe scummy aren't so solid after all. Parama, do you agree with Andrius' assessment of what an Alliance is/should be?

[AurorusVox]

Accidentally?

[AurorusVox]

Nacho, how do you determine Plum is the CR rather than straight scum?

[AurorusVox]

Ehm, debating a VV vote at this point. Is he misreading or misrepping? :\

That said, CooLDoG has just shown that Andy also said he wanted the alliance ("ALLIANCE IS GO!" - his previous mentions were excitement at the prospect so I let it slide, but that quoted post is something beyond that); so Andy's "Hey it was Exe who wanted the alliance not me I didn't want it nonono" is looking a little shifty.

[AurorusVox]

I left my vote there because "in that case" (i.e. under Andy's description) your reason wouldn't stack up, but I wanted to hear what you had to say about alliances before making a change. After waiting and you not responding, I've been considering moving to one of VV or Andy.

[AurorusVox]

Andy: so what's the difference between Exe saying "Alliance is GO" and you saying it? Why does he "want" an alliance, but you don't?

Vote: Andrius

[AurorusVox]

Oops I mean,

Unvote; Vote: Andrius

[AurorusVox]

Ehm, debating a VV vote at this point. Is he misreading or misrepping? :\

Regarding what? I think I pinpointed the post and am fairly uncertain what you're referring to here.

Regarding Andy's play concerning the alliance shenanigan. He seems to be saying "Oh yeah Andy is scummy for this" when really it was Exe who was the more prominent, or so is the general perception - who he hasn't mentioned yet at all.

I left my vote there because "in that case" (i.e. under Andy's description) your reason wouldn't stack up, but I wanted to hear what you had to say about alliances before making a change. After waiting and you not responding, I've been considering moving to one of VV or Andy.

Why wait - it sounds like either of them were better suspects than Exe from your point of view by that point. Whose permission are you waiting for here?

I could've switched my vote to him, sure, but I didn't feel like it and didn't think I'd gain or lose anything by it.

I thought I'd see whether there was a different view on alliances that might account for Parama's suspicion. And while I was then deciding between the two of them, I didn't want to unvote while I decided. Why are you allowed to not switch your vote, but I have to do so immediately?

AV's scumhunting in this game, such as it has been, has been

hugely

passive[/i]. Thirteen posts this game and he seems uninvested in his own scumhunting - he's not noticing off things or potential scumtells himself and sheeps to cover any ground at all (and/or any off thing he himself does notice don't get attention from him at all - he questions Nacho re: why he has me as CR and not Mafia, but doesn't put him down on the list of two people he's considering moving his vote onto when Parama asks, and this sort of sheeping works in conjunction with the above AV quote). His two votes have been based on discrepancies or scumtells noticed by other people and latched onto by him - his vote on Exe came after Parama's comment on something Exe did

before

AV's previous post; same thing with CD's discrepancy in Andrius' posting.

Soo, waiting for an answer to a question before I decide whether something is scummy or not is also bad play? Why are you so impatient? If Nacho has a good explanation for why he thinks you are CR instead of mafia, then he isn't scummy. If he doesn't have a reason - or has a bad reason - I would find him scummy. There's no need to speculate on his scumminess before he's answered my question.

Yes I sheeped Parama at the start, but it was early days and I was getting my head around this alliance business. Parama seemed to notice something solid that I didn't know much about, so I sheeped. Baa. But I voted Andy because he said he was joking around about the alliance; I fail to see why his words "Alliance is go!" should be taken as a joke when Exe said the same thing. It was this double standard that I was voting him for, as I thought was clear by my post. Andy only said that it was a joke a couple of posts before mine.

[AurorusVox]

Regarding Andy's play concerning the alliance shenanigan. He seems to be saying "Oh yeah Andy is scummy for this" when really it was Exe who was the more prominent, or so is the general perception - who he hasn't mentioned yet at all.

^To clarify: who he ha

d

n't mentioned yet at all

(i.e. at the time I was wrestling with the misrep/misread)

[AurorusVox]

Every time I think AV is seeming more town, he starts being suspicious again. I say to you, something is not right about AV.

What is the latest suspect act I have partaken in now?

[AurorusVox]

You mean deciding what to do with my vote is a cop-out?

Clearly if I think Andy is scummy due to his alliance shenanigans that lets VV off the misrep hook; if I think VV's scummy that means Andy's proposed scumminess due to the alliance is a misrep. I was trying to decide what side to come down on, and that decision was eased by Andy's "Oh I was joking (but clearly Exe wasn't!)" post.

While I decide what to do, my vote is more useful on you than on no one.

[AurorusVox]

You mean deciding what to do with my vote is a cop-out?

Clearly if I think Andy is scummy due to his alliance shenanigans that lets VV off the misrep hook; if I think VV's scummy that means Andy's proposed scumminess due to the alliance is a misrep. I was trying to decide what side to come down on, and that decision was eased by Andy's "Oh I was joking (but clearly Exe wasn't!)" post.

While I decide what to do, my vote is more useful on you than on no one.

Umm, your vote isn't even on me LOL.

I know that. I was explaining why I hadn't unvoted. While deciding what to do (i.e. in the situation before I voted Andy) my vote is more useful on you than on no one. That's a statement in the (persisting/perpetual) present tense because the sentiment is still true despite the condition not being fulfilled. My vote is more useful on someone (in this specific case you) than on no one.

[AurorusVox]

@Plum, if I had only ONE other suspect then I'd agree with your argument. But I had two who were looking fairly equal in my mind. You ignored the point that one being suspicious precludes the other (and maybe I was overthinking it)* but I couldn't AT THAT POINT decide who was scummier so I decided to sit back and see. A vote for one of them would have symbolised more than just suspicion of them, but also vindication of the other.

*oshit more antitown parentheses

---

Nacho, if you had a bad reason I would have thought you were making one up to justify not voting Plum, whereas a good reason that actually explained the distinction satisfactorily would have been...satisfyingly townish. I'm not sure, does your argument just boil down to (gut)meta of Plum - "I wouldn't expect scumPlum to do this" - or a familiarity with the workings of CR's in general? It looks to be a bit of both, is there one that's more prominent than the other or are they equal?

[AurorusVox]

Sorry I've been having trouble getting on, my connection has been temperamental. But it seems to be working now so.

Alright, the Andy-Rage can stop now.

Unvote.

I'm getting town vibes off ragemode-Andy.

I still say Andy should die first, but I'm not going to fight an Adumbro lynch as deadline approaches.

Orly? I think something ain't quite right there, Exe. You've basically coaxed Andy into voting Adumbro, because the alternative (or so you frame it) is Andy's lynch. I'm guessing you predicted Andy voted Adumbro and you could use your "Oh teh deadline" to justify hammering. Whereas if you really cared about "AndyScum" swinging, or dying first, you wouldn't have unvoted him. Oh, and should I be surprised to find the latest votecount had Andy's vote being on you?

Unvote; Vote: Exe

[AurorusVox]

Not scum this time Chess. Are you?

[AurorusVox]

yeah plum i'm the cult leader
you got me
you go girl

Oh I forgot Chess had already claimed Cult Leader. But he didn't answer the question so maybe he's scum claiming cult in some epic Chesskid WIFOM gambit. Dun dun dunnn.

So, Chess, who's scum?

[AurorusVox]

AV WE'VE ALREADY BEEN HERE AND DID THIS.
GET WITH THE PROGRAM LEMON.

Last 8 posts = useless.
AV, why aren't you hammering?

Oh, cause Exe's the obvScum? That's kinda why I'm not hammering...cause I think an Exe lynch is likelier to hit scum.

Eh...I can get behind an Adumbro lynch if push came to shove. But unlike Exe, I'd

actually

rather see Andy go than Adumbro, and Exe should get lynched over Andy atm. Exe pretending to be on the Andy wagon but not really being on it looks all kinds of bad.

[AurorusVox]

Oh right CR is the target.

What happened to Plum being the CR?

[AurorusVox]

Ehh. Well I'm about to go to sleep so it'll be now or not for another few hours from me (maybe ScumExe will help you out).

- You said before that 3rd Parties generally have more reason to be cautious, right? That fits with his lack of voting.
- The setting up lynches doesn't make sense if he's not scum since setting up lynches is presumably a scumtell rather than a cult-tell (i.e. as scum he would know Andy is town and that would frame Ender; as cult he wouldn't be so sure. A gamble?)
- I think Andy is likely scum so I liked Adumbro reading Andy's RAGE as flailing BUT that could be justification for an easy vote if Andy isn't scum.

Isn't it worth waiting for a claim?

[AurorusVox]

Few hours it is then. Until tomorrow.

[AurorusVox]

I say we hold off the hammer til Vas' big post has dropped.

[AurorusVox]

I somehow forgot to switch my vote back to Andy.

You unvoted Andy and in the very next post said you wanted him to be lynched today. That isn't "somehow forgetting to revote", that's being caught out in a contradiction and making up an excuse for it.

[AurorusVox]

Seriously, I said Andy was starting to lean town amid his rage.

That wasn't what it looked like with the unvote. You had to have pretty strong convictions that Andy was town to remove the pressure from his wagon.

However, I fucking quoted the parts of his LATER post that were once again scummy. It's not a contradiction, it's the fact that

andy made another post

.

And that's when you forgot to vote him? So you quoted how scummy he was, said you really wanted to see him lynched, and then conveniently forgot to vote for him?

[AurorusVox]

Actually, you "runvoted".[/color]

I lol'd.

I was thinking about how Nacho was gonna hate seeing the Adumbro wagon get overtaken by the Exe wagon. Then I realised that earlier in the game he'd voted for Exe (who he felt was scum) over Plum (who he thought was the CR). Nacho, what changed since earlier, where you went after scum instead of who-you-thought-at-the-time-was the CR?

[AurorusVox]

Adumbro, why is Parama worse than Katsuki or Chess? Have you played with Parama before?

"Andy's still scum, but Parama is probably his buddy." ---> doesn't Andy make more sense for your vote, then?

[AurorusVox]

DRUNKPOSTING

Lynching EXE >>> ANDRYIUS >>> ADDUMB BRO

Iuno. I'd rather hit MOST LIKELY SCUM than POTENTIAL CULT RECRUITMAN purely because if ADUMBB BRO IS TOWN I'd have passed up a pretty good lynch canddidate and gotten nowehre. Not confirendt enought in ADUMBRU cult recruiter to shift.

I will vote any of those three at deadline to secure a lynch however. THat is my proposed aorder (THUMBS UP_)

[AurorusVox]

I'd rather hit MOST LIKELY SCUM than POTENTIAL CULT RECRUITMAN

Why are we still letting people get away with this philosophy? Until we know otherwise, I am assuming that cult is what any scummy person is. There's really no basis to the argument that finding a scum is MORE likely than finding the cult recruiter.

Well you're scummier than Adumbro which is why I'm voting for you. Nacho says he can tell the difference between the two, so ask him :\

[AurorusVox]

Actually Adumbro you do have a reason to lie so I'll wait for the flip to trust your VT claim. I'd have preferred an Andy lynch but the wagon on ADD did have a nicer group of people on it so I understand whoever it was who used that as the basis of their vote >_>"

[AurorusVox]

Dead QT

I like the idea that I was killed by accident...>_>"