Mini 1113 - Brotherhood of the Wolf Mafia

[SpyreX]

Hey about to run out for the day but:

UK is town.
AGM is absolutely not town.
Reck was super town and I am not amused to see him dead.
The beast that is, was, and will be AKR is scum.
Mina's on the fence.
UT may, in fact, be scum (there was a happy moment and a throwaway vote on Zang I don't like).

There's way too many in the middle that could get burned at the stake.

AND OF COURSE:

SC, believe it or not, is town *shock*

[SpyreX]

There's the rub. Two kills last night point at 3rd party.

That, also, explains the SK-Vig 'helpful' kill on LMP.

[SpyreX]

To be fair, of course, I did have down in my notes initially CD as tricksy SK and AGM as the vig but that's obviously not right.

[SpyreX]

@UK:

No no. AGM needs us right now as much as we need him (and there IS the offchance he is town in crazy land). Further, the scum are playing with fire leaving him free and clear.

He can't be the lynch today. We need to dance that dance.

@Mina:

No, I got my PM first but re-reading made me sigh a bit. To say SC's been off his game (which I absolutely dig) is an understatement. I'll probably have to go because of it but not before trying to put the train back on the rails.

@ICE:

I'll go into detail on AKR's 'help' but while I commend your being ACTIVE which is a change I still don't like the push and pull late yesterday. And, no, Ghost and Mari aren't in the reads because they ARE (I thought there was more woosh) the great collective that needs to be burned at the stake. I'd bet one of them at least is scum.

So, to be more precise I'm betting on:

AKR/UT, ??? (Me being wrong about a read probably Mina maybe), Ghost/Mari

[SpyreX]

WOOOSH nevermind its 13 players.

AKR/UT / Ghost/Mari and let ??? be damned

[SpyreX]

I thought you were saying:

We lynch AGM, and go into F3 and hope we win.

Was the course you wanted. Which I think is the gamble of gambles.

But, yes, we need to lynch right today. And not AGM.

[SpyreX]

You know for a fact that's not why I'm questioning it.

Your change in role DOES change things for the better and definitively means you're not getting lynched today sans shenanigans.

OF course, you may be able to break this wide open if you went off the cuff and didn't protect CD N1

[SpyreX]

OF course, you may be able to break this wide open if you went off the cuff and didn't protect CD N1

Straightforward with the total lack of kills. Which means we're still missing one.

@SpyreX: Why do you believe him? Secondly, didn't we figure that AGM got attacked for some reason?

Because the modifications a.) make sense to lie about and b.) fit much better now with everything else. It makes sense.

------

I'll deal with UT in a bit. I'm absolutely down with the GI lynch AND on a scum flip there if you've really got to get the druthers a tither shoot me. If you want to line this up all nice nice shoot Mari.

The reason is in the last page. It can stay a mystery for now oooohhh

[SpyreX]

Thats some serious timecube bidness up there.

AGM IF YOU GET ANOTHER SHOT THERE IS A MYSTERY IN THE VC. I KNOW YOU CAN FIND IT.

Mina's either got balls of steel or is town, thats nice.

I'm down with the abject murder death of GI

Unvote, Vote: GI

[SpyreX]

I'll freely say the one thing you've done all game that makes me raise my eyes is the hate on that Reck slot. The very first note in my AWESOME NOTES OF NOTES was Reck = Town.

And I really don't understand holding up the ZANG VOTE HOO like it's some piece of masterful town only craft. Good lord.

BUT, GI first.

[SpyreX]

Ohh I'm not saying it was STELLAR PLAY 4 TOWN TOWNTELL. Just that every twitch and how it gelled against that claim was a klaxon ring of town.

[SpyreX]

Well done good soldier.

Nothing, absolutely nothing, changed in between then and now.

Promise.

@UT: Yes, there is a lot of reason to do such a thing as scum. But, again, thats not for now.

[SpyreX]

It's already been explained.

Very, very clearly in fact.

There is no secret mystery.

[SpyreX]

Here's the deal.

You're flailing. Not a little bit.

If someone else really needs the diagram explaining what the difference is from that post till now they'll get it. Instead, it is far more beneficial for me to watch you bang against this wall because sure as sure can be it acts as rope-lube.

[SpyreX]

So, you're saying for sure you can't puzzle out the difference.

You managed to user powers of deduction that had nothing to do with Zang and on the flip side can't see what changed?

Yes, let us allow the votes to decide.

[SpyreX]

If you at least thought there was a good chance AGM was town, I could buy it

See, this is why you're flailing.

Because, again, like I said things have changed.

And since you've went ahead and supplied the rope:

Your change in role DOES change things for the better and definitively means you're not getting lynched today sans shenanigans.

Because the modifications a.) make sense to lie about and b.) fit much better now with everything else. It makes sense.

AGM IF YOU GET ANOTHER SHOT THERE IS A MYSTERY IN THE VC. I KNOW YOU CAN FIND IT.

I've got 15 whole posts. So, you just didn't pay attention to a full fifth where I very, very directly say I went 180 degrees on AGM the moment he altered his claim. And even explained why.

So, dissecting the "logic" of the first post is absolutely simply an attempt, and a poor one at that, to shift away from the inevitable.

Or, to put it far more succinctly:

CHOO CHOO SUMMON LOS ROPOS

[SpyreX]

You've got the termosity to shout Occam's Razor and then fluff that rubbish out?

Woooo nelly.

[SpyreX]

What in the name of everything holy?

On one hand you're espousing the SK that jumps through mystical hoops to not get a kill AND THEN because I say his doctor claim I believe as a half and half (hint: that's not the reason why I shifted) means there HAS to be a cop?

I sure don't remember any of that "There has to be a cop" business when the MILLER WAS ALIVE. When, you know, it would have actually made a lick of sense even if it was still a bad, bad idea.

(and there was a kill on a confirmed vig good lord almighty)

I need some of that magic juice.

[SpyreX]

Ok.

1) No mystical hoops. Two possibilities. One, AGM said exactly what happened in the thread. He got poisoned by Katsuki. Two, Zang RBed him because he didn't want the SC shot, and AGM chose not to commute night 2. Either make sense to me, and frankly I don't give a shit which happed. AGM said he got RBed/JKed, there was no kill. 1+1 = 2

Apples aren't B52 bombers good lord.

There is a huge and fundamental difference between "AGM is town and telling the truth" and "AGM IS SOME KINDA WILD WACKY HYPER SK WHO GAVE UP ALL HIS SKING INS THIS BIZ"

2) I don't remember anyone claiming doctor before now. As a roleclaimed doctor/vig, AGM should be pretty much dead tonight, and he can protect a Cop before he goes. This creates, for tomorrow, a minimum of two confirmed townies which is fairly hax (or one confirmed town, one confirmed scum). Right?

Yes, he's dead tonight. WHICH WOULD GUARANTEE THIS MYSTICAL COP (WHICH IS EVEN MORE TECH CONSIDERING THE SPLIT SETUP THUS FAR GOOD LORD) IS DEAD. VERSUS HAVING THE SCUM HAVE TO TAKE A GUESS TO WHERE HE IS.

Additionally, AND THIS REALLY SHOULDN'T BE NECESSARY, the existence of a split roleblocker makes the existence of any number of roles that can manipulate said results higher which makes this whole cop claim yee-haw a bulls-eye for SCREW WITH MA RESULTS PLEASE.

GOD IN HEAVEN

Talk about flailing - If a cop does exist, that pretty much raises the roof on the power level, so you're laying the groundwork for non-confirmed sanity? Really convenient if he gets a guilty you don't like, right? No sanity test.

Yea that's me "laying groundwork"

LynchMePls - Henri Sardis, Head of the Brotherhood of the Wolf [Town Miller] tomahawked Night 2.

OR OHH SNAP THERE IS A MILLER ALREADY FLIPPED

GOOD LORD

[SpyreX]

Split roles.
Like every other damn one.
Good lord its not rocket science.

I've also played in one or two games and I'm pretty sure I've never seen this "slightly nonstandard SK build" that you're espousing.

[SpyreX]

I can't decide whether this whole tirade is last minute distancing or really, really bad flailing.

That better not be a bi-directional statement.

And you do have a couple points, particularly the fact Spy was willing to drop AGM on the doctor thing and I'm like "what?" over here about that still.

Damnit Kitten.

Damnit.

I guess I DO get to explain it and I'm not happy about it because its pretty straight forward.

AGM's claim of Vig, directly, made no sense.

Why? Its simple and twofold:

5. Katsuki - Sylvia, Seductress [Town Redirector / Modified Jailkeeper] lynched Day 1.
1. Zang - Gregoire, Royal Knight [Mafia Roleblocker / Janitor] lynched Day 2.

9. CooLDoG - Jean-Francois, Hunter [Town Tracker / Day-Vig] slaughtered Night 2.

There's a pattern there. A direct and easy to see pattern.

Further, the combination of Day-Vig + Standard Vig absolutely doesn't add up for balance. Even against a stacked team.

Now, on the flipside, A Doctor / Vig then fits the pattern as laid out AND makes the balance work better (in essence, there's either a 2-kill cycle or the equivalent of a standard vig.

Further, considering the total absence of N1 kills WITH the Vig / Vig it puts another piece in the puzzle - the existence of copies of the roles (in this case, I'm betting on a second doctor) that creates a feast or famine kind of PR setup (which I like) which helps explain the absence of the other kill.

Far, FAR more importantly is the cognitive dissonance that it takes that you should see first hand:

No way, no way, did the same person who ran down this simply 'miss' the change in opinion on AGM. And, moreso, when called out on it:

PEDIT: @SpyreX: That was supposed to be a 180? Oh come on. You know there's a serial killer variant where they can commute every other night to be immune to investigations and NKs, at the cost of their kill. Wonder how fast you'll remember that when you need AGM lynched. Or maybe he just eats the NK when he's forced to kill rather than commute.

Somehow tried to go "Ohh, going from absolutely not town to town is not a 180 fancy your lynch MR SMARTY PANTS"

At least there's some good news: Mina is probably town.

For this:

(For the record, if there hadn't been no kill on N1, I would totally be spinning paranoid theories about AGM being a Mafioso with a one-shot vig kill.)

I thought the same thing - but I thought it was CD, not AGM.

[SpyreX]

It IS straightforward if you look at game balance at all.

As for the other two. One I answer RIGHT BELOW THE LINE YOU QUOTED JESUS and the other SHOULD READILY BE APPARENT from where the vote is.

God in heaven game.

[SpyreX]

I've been going back and forth on Mina a lot but the simple looking for how to make the pieces work together in that way is far more town motivated. Far, far more.

Nothing you said up there would have any relevance to my somehow changing that. That was a lowball question you're throwing at 80% scum from your posts.

[SpyreX]

Its how the two parts fit AND the lying about it. YES, in this instance that lie makes the whole puzzle make sense.

HELP ME HELP YOU

[SpyreX]

And that whole AGM double plus night action SK you've been espousing?

Or the fact you've moved past the split to day/night when every other action is active besides the passive one you 'have'?

Speaking of that:

I'm a limited bulletproof. Maybe I drew the Night Kill last night, most likely I didn't given how fucking horrible AKR was playing day 1.

I am not entrusting a game where I finally, FOR ONCE, CANNOT BE NIGHT KILLED

AGM, feel free to test if my bulletproof is all used up blocking the night kill last night

One of these is not like the others.

Besides, you're a governor afterall. Why is there this sense of fire and flame at the idea of getting run up. Afterall, you could just stop it.

[SpyreX]

And double pro-tip nothing in Kat's claim would point to one shot.

Nothing.

That is a stretch of grandiose levels.

[SpyreX]

Hinted?

You mean outright said.

Yessir, BP Governor hooooo

[SpyreX]

Let him prove it the old fashioned way.

Or since this game has been going this way I better spell it out:

No way in hell there's a Bulletproof Governor.

What that DOES though is "Can't lynch me. Can't kill me."

Hmm MYSTERIES huh

[SpyreX]

(I've seen more governors that can prevent themselves than SK commuter voodoos)

He's absolutely bulletproof if he's scum. Godfathers hooo.

But lets make this REALLY simple:

Him or me.

Today. Decide. Go.

[SpyreX]

He needs to be replaced. He's been gone for almost a week.

Today is a reference to game day not today.

It is happening.

[SpyreX]

You knew it was coming Mina.

It had to happen.

Mod: Prod/Replace GW

[SpyreX]

I'll one up it because you're losing your mind UK:

If GI gets lynched and flips scum, you can lynch me tomorrow. No fightin or tomfoolery.

As pants on head as that is, if thats what it takes.

[SpyreX]

I missed one?

Can you reshow me (I've been a BIT DISTRACTED THIS GAME THUS FAR GOODDDDD)

[SpyreX]

@Mina: Yes, I will clear that up tonight if its gotta go down that path.

@UT: Not a mistake. UK's doing the "scum on scum" and I'm saying go for it. Additionally, thats why I call it pants on head.

[SpyreX]

You guys are making me wroth.

GEE GOLLY WHAT HAPPENS TOMORROW IF YOU FLIP TOWN HINT HINT

And where in the hell did GI - scum = Lynch AGM come from?

GOD YOU MAKE MY TEETH ITCH ALL OF YOU

[SpyreX]

Its fine.

You've forced my hand. Events are in motion.

Beautiful events.

MUHAHAHAHA

As long as I am alive AGM isn't getting lynched. It isn't happening.

AND GOD DAMNIT AGM DONT YOU START THAT TOO

JESUS

[SpyreX]

We'll see.

You forced me to this.

It will be glorious. Magnificent.

Estuans interius
ira vehementi

[SpyreX]

And you know what you've done AGM.

You're drinking the juice. The bad, bad juice.

[SpyreX]

GreyICE IS THE LYNCH. SpyreX is the buddy.

FFFF no no no no.

This is bad juice and you know it.

I mean if that's what it takes FINE but god in heaven after everything that's happened REALLY.

[SpyreX]

SC's play WAS blah.

And you know Vig + 1 shot Day Vig absolutely didn't make sense. The second you modified that it clicked.

Then GI goes down and decides to gaze into the eyes of the beast and allow that madness to seep into all of you. Devouring your soul, slowly, so slowly.

Until all you can see is the red glare. The eyes caked in the madness hear only the mantra of buddy/buddy/buddy.

There IS magic coming. Beautiful magic. Delicious magic.

I thought you'd have seen part of it in the VC but NO. I've got to explain that.

The other. In time. Patience.

[SpyreX]

So sayith BP GOVERNOR YEEHAW.

GOD

[SpyreX]

TODAY LIKE I SAID BEFORE MEANT THE GAME DAY WORDS HAVE MEANING BELIEVE IT OR NOT

PATIENCE REFERS AGAIN TO THE GAME DAY GOD IN HEAVEN

[SpyreX]

Right Shift???

Thats more revolting that caps lock.

Sors immanis
Et inanis

[SpyreX]

I'm adding in some gangsta flavor to this with the important town reads: Mina and UK.

Untrod Tripod (1) - Mariyta

Katsuki

(LYNCHED) -

Mina

, StrangerCoug, AlmasterGM, GreyICE,

CooLDoG

,

Zang

, Untrod Tripod
StrangerCoug (1) -

UncertainKitten

UncertainKitten

(2) -

Katsuki

,

LynchMePls

Not Voting (1) - GhostWriter

Zang

(LYNCHED) - StrangerCoug,

CooLDoG

,

LynchMePls

, Untrod Tripod, Mariyta, GreyICE

LynchMePls

(1) -

UncertainKitten

StrangerCoug (1) -

Zang

GreyICE (1) - AlmasterGM

Not Voting (2) -

Mina

, GhostWriter

Now, D1 has the interesting bit. Chances are minimal all the scum were on that wagon. So, looking at that space: Ghostwriter, Mariyta.

Lets map that against the no scum found yet Zang wagon: SC, UT, Mariyta, GreyICE.

Thats what you were supposed to see AGM. Clear as a bell.

Now, NORMALLY, I wouldn't expect a hop on pop double dance. But, with AGM springing the vig dance well its damage control.

And, an interesting one at that:

This is ridiculous. We're sitting here waiting for two replacements and a guy who flat out refuses to play (or at least play in a somewhat acceptable manner). This is totally screwing over the players who are here to play and actually want to play.

UNVOTE: UT, VOTE: Zang He needs to go.

Unvote. Now. Let Zang answer. One word, two or three letters. Yes. Or. No.

I'm not even disagreeing he's scum, but that's soooo not the issue.

No. I'm sick of this shit.

Guess what didn't happen between this and Grey throwing his hammer?

Zang responding.

GreyICE, Zang, Mari. Book it.

[SpyreX]

Not really AGM. Thats one person that either way wont say no.

And lets play timestamps:

Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:50 am <--- Telling Mari to wait for Zang to answer
Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:08 am <--- Mari's post.
Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:26 pm <--- The hammer.

[SpyreX]

In a span of 3 hours you went from NO WAIT to power hammer.

That has nothing to do with Zang directly.

But everything to do with you.

[SpyreX]

And back to this Sherlock Holmes "I can figure out he's the vig but can't see SpyreX made a 180 on AGM in my initial 'case'"

Soon. My plans. Fruition.

[SpyreX]

Seriously now. This game had feelings issues in the BEFORE times.

Not now. Sheesh.

Marriiiiiii

[SpyreX]

FATE GET IN HERE.

UT you realize LD said very specifically she's leaving it there while she catches up, rite?

[SpyreX]

Just read today.

Its not THAT long. All will become clear.

[SpyreX]

....

Fate FATE

Did:

And considering any miller character will be a bit dodgy, anyone voting LMP for flavour alone (looking at you, havingfitz and CooLDoG) without having ever seen the movie is being very arrogant and ignorant. I am trusting Mariyta's word that Henri Sardens is plausible as a miller, and leaving it for now.

Happen after Zang voted?

Holy HELL back to the drawring board then.

[SpyreX]

That changes things LATER some.

Not today. Not at all.

You'll see.

[SpyreX]

Fate keep going.

It gets better.

[SpyreX]

Except for that whole he's not the SK goooooddd looorrddddddd UK help me here.

Seriously I dont know what else you want from me. AGM caught him in the cookie jar. I SHOWED the 180 to lynch Zang then after the response of "ohh but time" showed the 3 HOUR timestamps.

I've explained why AGM makes sense now. You're not even blinking at bulletproof governor.

And of the people that actually are LISTENING I'm dealing with "ohh look scumbuddies <3"

Good lord.

Fate. I need you.

I've always needed you.

Fix this.

Veni, veni, venias,
Ne me mori facias

[SpyreX]

....

How could you even possibly get that from that?

AGM is town.
GreyIce is scum.
The SK is a myth and a stupid one at that.

[SpyreX]

See there's the issue.

You're calling this a bus. Which AGAIN STILL is madness. BUT whatever it takes to get this done.

I'm saying right here and now when I'm dead and AGM is still alive if YOU vote for him under this SK business you take a rope.

[SpyreX]

Standard Vig + 1 Shot Day Vig = Bananas
Vig / Doc + 1 Shot Day Vig = Swinning in town

[SpyreX]

Mina I WAS leaning town due to later events today but that missing zang piece is something else.

[SpyreX]

....whyy in the name of all things holy would they kill MINA?

Pretty much this.

Unvote, Vote: UT

AGM can always shoot me tonight if he's drinking the juice.

AGM IS TOWN WE ARE NOT DOING THIS AGAIN GOD IN HEAVEN

[SpyreX]

The ONLY reason I can think of that makes sense for Mina dying is PR FEAR SHOCK AND AWE one way or another (or left-field scum but whatev's).

[SpyreX]

Actually my paranoia is far more tinfoil than that (with the gamestate yesterday and a GF dead, the ONLY PR that would think to target Mina in a million years would be a cop so win-win)

WOULD YOU KILL MINA KNOWING IT WAS THE ONLY THING STOPPING ME FROM LYNCHING YOU?

WOULDYA?

No. And unless you think I'm some kind of super secret scum power voodoo I wouldn't have been adamant in getting a governor lynched either.

You KNOW I'm not scum and don't you start mr.

YOU KNOW IT

[SpyreX]

Assume UT and I are dead so that's not an issue.

UK would probably end up with the vote.

But even then I feel dirty because its paranoia and not that good ol lovin' feelin.

GI would LOVE to be you but he isn't you.

Look back at that. Look how slimy it was.

And the MOST important part is I would have ate it for cred and you know it.

[SpyreX]

When I'm shot, remember this.

I'm saying right here and now when I'm dead and AGM is still alive if YOU vote for him under this SK business you take a rope.

REMEMBER IT.

And Fate found me out ohh snap.

I am Duc de Moncan, a Citizen of Gevaudan

[SpyreX]

......

Fate you big crazy pile of madness

[SpyreX]

I'm getting there but good lord UT maan

Although you raise a very direct point I missed:

UT or I would be pants on head retarded to not have shot AGM.

In fact, the ONLY reason AGM is still alive is the SK angle.

[SpyreX]

GOD IN HEAVEN

Not back to this skipping days dancing SK business again.

Although you're JUST a macho cop fate?

[SpyreX]

I came to that realization way back in the before times come on now.

'You all' so I'm the scum now huh? Noice.

[SpyreX]

And you can both take the avatar bet and stuff it good lord.

[SpyreX]

The best part is it really doesn't matter AND if AGM is the mysterious SK (he's not) G-to-the-G.

AGM:

Tonight. You shoot me. Deal?

[SpyreX]

Alrighty.

If the game doesn't end, and AGM is alive*: Voting for AGM is tantamount to claiming scum.

No matter how the dice roll that's an end-game I'm fine with.

Unvote, Vote: UK

*this is a secret that should be readily apparent so I'm not saying what the qualifier is.

[SpyreX]

If it happens, doesn't matter.

AGM: If I'm lynched today and flip town, shoot UK. Deal?

[SpyreX]

Theoretically if there we 4 scum we'd lose here SWISH.

Or, of course, I'm handing you the game if you are an SK. But, I'm down with that.

[SpyreX]

YES I AM SO STUPID

I KNOW ITS THE DRINKING MAKES ME DUMB

I WISH I COULD DRINK SMART DRINKS

[SpyreX]

Maybe its just the general irritation with mafia spilling over but I just don't have the patience for that.

When I flip town, and I will, I'm not going to freak out about how stupid you all are and fucking morons et al because HOW COULD YOU NOT SEE.

It's just... draining.

So, lets get it done because, realistically, it doesn't matter one whit.

[SpyreX]

Its pretty much wrapped up at this point, one way or another.

And the only relevant 'meta' you'll ever get from me comes into play:

I hate, HATE, HATEE being the mislynch at lylo.

I'd much rather be shot.

[SpyreX]

Thank you.

I didn't want AGM to LISTEN and then get lynched tomorrow.

And while I'm fine with my redemption of this slot no way would I not eat los ropos.

(The only issue is that this means mari was town with those BAD BAD VC's or UT is - and a wrong pick there is bad news)

[SpyreX]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2806402

[SpyreX]

Additionally:

Unless you believe SK-AGM or Fate-Scum (both of which are haha) it doesn't matter.

[SpyreX]

AGM I feel you.

I hate being there. Good game.