1119: The Might of Mordor: Game Over

[MasterSpy]

Ok, this the MagnaofIllusion head of MasterSpy checking in. I will be reading the thread and getting together with Mina in our QT do discuss our reads.

A large, joined catch-up post from her should be coming in the next day or so.

Note – My posts will always be in italics for ease of knowing which head is which. Mina should be making the majority of posts so I am leaving her normal text to save all of you eyestrain.

[MasterSpy]

Mina-head checking in. Since I'll be V/LA on a vacation to Cuba at the end of February, and since I've worked with Magna in the past in Hydra Mafia, I thought this was a good way to give two people on the replacement list a chance to participate.

Mina + MagnaofIllusion? God, the walls will be UNBEARABLE.

You are not going to like the granddaddy of monster catch-up posts that we are collaborating on now. When completed, it could be published as a novel. (True to form, Magna has finished all his reads, and I'm like two players down the list so far. :/

No, wait, SpyreX! Don't speedlynch me! This time, I'm actually town! I told you me taking forever to finish a post was a null tell.

)

As a hydra, I'm a bit hesitant to attack or defend anyone or vote before Magna and I agree on the entity that is MasterSpy's Official Reads (TM). For example, Magna is more suspicious of Plum and Mariyta than I am, and more trusting of AlmasterGM. However, I hope Magna will forgive me if I pop in and comment on something very off:

And I find it very hypocritical that you jump down my throat for trusting quadz' reads so early, and yet there's all this sheeping bit with Fate going on, and Plum dictating that Edge is town in the beginning, etc. At least quadz did something I deemed to be

a ridiculous town play for him

, and has since then been very proactive and townie. And what the hell is wrong with being able to read my fiance like a book? You'd think you'd take that as an advantage, hmm? Ok, ok, I can understand if you don't trust I'm town yet ...but that only confirms townquadz to you anyway, right?

Aside from the tone of the last bit striking me as somewhat off (I think it's the smiley), the words I bolded caught my attention. I've thought quadz's posts white-knighting Plum have come across as reasonable and sincere, and am leaning town on him, but I didn't remember his looking particularly townish in the RVS. So I ISO'd singersigner to find out what I'd missed.

Ladies and gentlemen, presenting quadz' RIDICULOUS town play:

This makes sense to me. I think that the Ring should go to the towniest player; basically work it much like the Smashball/townvote mechanic in Super Smash Bros. Mafia. It is possible that it's better for someone to use their power, rather than their superpower, on a specific night, but I think it will likely be circumstantial. That's a "cross that bridge when we come to it" situation, in my opinion.

Also,
imbue: quadz08

Meh, actually I <3 quadz. imbue: quadz

He wouldn't vote for himself unless he was confident that what he had would be more beneficial to town in the more immediate than long run.

First of all, the logic here is ridiculous. He's town because he'd only imbue himself if his motives were protown?

How the hell would you know his motives are protown? That logic only applies

if you know he's town

. Maybe he was scum and voted for himself because he was confident what he had would be more beneficial to scum in the more immediate than long run.

Secondly...okay, I get being able to read someone you know more easily. But I'm calling bullshit on this. You read him as confidently town from one paragraph saying that the ring should go to the towniest player. Is your fiance, like, the worst scum player of all time? Set-up speculation is very easy to fake as scum, because you don't have to take stands on wagons or link yourself to your buddy. And he's not even suggesting a plan to break the set-up wide open. He's saying, "The ring should go to the towniest player regardless of power." It's not outright

scummy

, but it's a safe no-brainer comment.

If you'd said, "eh, it's early, and he's just giving I'm just kind of leaning town on him," I'd have felt better about you. But your ISO is filled with overdefensive comments about how you can read l and you're SOOOOO convinced that he's town.

You'll need more than, "Oh, I totally don't have outside information about his alignment, and am not buddying up to my fiance, because quadz is my soul mate," because no one here knows enough about quadz to tell if you're bullshitting out of your ass. Give actual examples of towntells that quadz dropped in that single paragraph, or ways he deviated from his scum meta.

Or have you played numerous games with quadz-scum involving a mechanic of voting to give a player an ability? Was he reluctant to grant himself one?

Or are you saying imbuing yourself is townish? esuriospiritus and Fate (initially) both imbued themselves as town. (I might be forgetting someone else.) Also, see this game for an example of how useless a towntell it is.

I also agree with all those saying that this is too vague and wishy-washy:

And I admit, that was a little hasty of me to call Plum out for fencesitting. But again, I explained that it wasn't her fencesitting that was the problem, it was how it was worded. She seems to be very good at playing a semantic game, so I wouldn't have expected that from her.

That's actually whats making me paranoid about her defense. I feel as though she can very easily talk her way out of something. I just didn't like how Edge dubbed what she did as absolute scumscumscum.

I guess what bugs me is that you don't give

examples

of how Plum's fencesitting is worded suspiciously. You don't stand by your fencesitting accusation and call it over-hasty (which feels as though you're backtracking after drawing heat for it), but say that since Plum is so good at explaining herself, she could possibly be scum even though you can't pin anything on her. It's just an easy way of drumming up paranoia against a strong player without outright attacking her. I'm unfamiliar with Plum's scum game, though (seen her as a survivor, but that doesn't really count). Can you please elaborate on this?

Were I not a hydra, I'd probably vote singersigner, but Magna was middle-of-the-road on her (he liked her questioning of the AGM votes) and seemed to be in favour of the Plum wagon. Waiting for MoI's input on singer's most recent posts.

quadz, since singersigner says she can read you because you know each other so well, let me turn this around. Can you read SS well? Do you believe her excuse for her imbue on you? (Forgive me if you answered this already and I missed it; I'm a bit overwhelmed with all there is to catch up with ATM.)

Sounds good. But we all know the real reason that Mina's doing most of the posting.

It's cause I have experience with Magna-scum.

For the record, this made me laugh out loud, because the implication is that Magna wants me to post because I'm a better scum player than he is. I take it you missed the ending of DEFCON 2.0 after replacing out. *winces*

EBWOPreview: Goddamn it, I missed about two pages while writing this.

I fixed your quote tag for you. - Andy

[MasterSpy]

...That was only supposed to be a short post. I don't know how that grew so much in the preview window.

Andrius-mod: could you fix the quote tags above?

Done and done-r. - Andy

Also, gandalf is not doing much to combat the impression that he's an Edge sheep.

Mariyta reads like Town due to LOTR maf meta. That said, she needs to die ASAP due to WIFOM potential.

WTF does WIFOM potential mean? Is that like "lynch her even though I don't suspect her because she's a distraction's" second cousin? Please elaborate on why you want someone you read as town to die ASAP.

[MasterSpy]

GOD DAMN IT! Andy, can you please delete the duplicate post from the wrong fucking account to save on thread space please?

Done and done. - Andy

Let’s try this again. I had this all written up last night and the stupid ice-storm took down our power.

General Info

–

I think I’m overall in pretty good agreement with Mina regarding our replace in reads. SingerSinger is in my top three for scum-reads with Plum and Mariyta (who is number 1 with a bullet, I’ll get to that later).

I’m not sure to what to make of Gandalf. This isn’t close to the only version I have seen of Gandalf as Town (the LOTR Large Game). You certainly didn’t mega-sheep and Caps Lawk there. Futhermore that Gandalf is bound and determined to flat out ignore things Edge does right after Gandalf says they are scum-tells (Edge even commented briefly on this) is Teaparty material.

I also don’t quite know what to make of the SingerSinger and Gandalf little dust-up that happened early on. Neither was in serious danger of being a target at that stage so I find the vehemence between them suspect. Mark that in the ‘review as flips occur’ column for me.

The case on Plum (calling Edge obv-Town early yet forgetting it actually included Fate) is so-so but Plum’s reaction isn’t what I would expect from Plum-Town. In [REDACTED] the mention by me that she wasn’t obv-Town (not scum mind you, just not obv-Town) was met with an immediate and emotional attack. Her response to Edge here is much more along the line of ‘Ooops, tehehehe’. Damning? No. But inconsistent enough that I think it scummy.

How again is Sevei obv-Town? That ISO consists of two things of note – a general restatement of the Plum ‘case’ and a soft followup to VV. Not very inspiring at all. It’s one thing to be not spamtastic but still post content like Katy seems to do. It’s another to do pretty much nothing and be labeled Town.

Quadz, Spyrex and Katy earn my strongest Town reads so far. Everyone not mentioned in this catch-up falls solely in Sort-Town / Null for me.

--

General Things since I replaced in –

Since Spyrex and Katy have stated they would rather delay being Imbued Quadz is pretty much my choice.

Unimbue (if we were)
Imbue Quadz

2. SHE LIED. TOWN DOESNT LIE. NO MORE NEEDS TO BE SAID.

SO THIS IS A HARD AND FAST RULE FOR YOU? LYNCH ALL LIARS. EVEN GAMBITTING TOWN WHO LIE FOR EFFECT? JUST CURIOUS IN ALL CAPS.

Nice try Frodo.

If you are going to build a Tin-Foil conspiracy style theory about someone wanting to ‘destroy the ring’ best first check with the Theme. Because Frodo got ventilated by some shot happy Bowman in the Large Theme game and thus didn’t survive to make it into this game as a potential role. So he's not dumping the Ring in Mt. Doom any time soon.

The more you know … [insert music here].

Although the disclosure about your weed usage explains a lot about your love of rhetoric over anything close to logical discourse I see from you.

--

Now onto the Main Event – why Mariyta is a fucking Elf loving scum and needs to hang:

First let us review a trio of posts –

VOTE: AGM I'll be 30 next year. Don't make me kick your ass.

VOTE: Edge Because I can.

AGM: Attempt to direct the town has been noted.

@Plum: It wasn't vote-worthy, just note-worthy. I can actually see town saying something like that more than scum, but I still wanted to point out how dumb it was.

First let’s establish that the ‘Directing Town Noted’ comment can’t be viewed as anything other than an indication of suspicion. If she saw it as something realistically that could come from Town it wouldn’t have been worth typing (aka Fluff).

Her back-track explanation when called on it is pure bullshit.

1. Trying to pawn it off as ‘dumb’ and thus possibly Town is in itself stupid. AGM’s comments were aimed at trying to assure that Town gets optimal use of the Ring. Giving it to someone who has a situational or marginally useful Super as opposed to their regular is Good Thinking tm.
2. It was noteworthy but not voteworthy? Really? We were at the very start of the game. Any small slip is worth pressure and investigation, if only to get things moving. How is a second fucking RVS vote (Edge because ‘you can’) more worthy than voting someone who said something you found noteworthy? Answer … it’s not. It very much looks like you went fishing for support for your ‘catch’ and when it blew up you threw it directly in reverse and tried to play the ‘Not really suspicious, just dumb’ card.

Let’s look at on other inconsistent standard -

I really don't like playing with Spy and Edge together. They feed off each other and

treat the rest of the town like we're morons.

Pisses me the fuck off.

Look through Mari’s ISO and find the times she criticizes other’s logic as stupid, calls someone a moron, labels someone a VI, etc. Kind of hard to believe that same sort of behavior in others really should be pissing her off. Trying to drum up 'Town concern' for how other players act? Check.

Further inconsistencies –

UNVOTE: Plum I still think Plum is scum, but I don't want her lynched just yet. Especially not before she responds to

the case I have yet to post.

This comment isn't true. I haven't been avoiding it at all. I gave my case (quoted below). I just never quoted the exact posts I didn't like. I'll do them today at some point. I'm also going to do a complete re-read.

First in ISO 18 she unvotes Plum, who she thinks is scum. She doesn’t state that she does this to make sure an Imbue is assured, which is reasonable and she later brings up. Nope, she says it is so Plum can respond to “THE CASE I HAVE YET TO POST”.

Between ISO 18 and ISO 21 no ‘case’ on Plum appears. At some point before ISO 21 VV questions her about this unwritten case. Her response? I already gave my case. Umm, if you already gave it by 21 how could it be unposted at 18 and nothing between them. DOES NOT COMPUTE.

Note that after this post her ‘case’ still never materializes and her suspicion of Plum fades into background as the popularity of the Plum wagon diminishes.

My only experience with you is in games Fate/Edge has been in, so forgive me for being a bit hesitant about your play. Honestly, if you and Edge were scum together, I think you'd rule this town (or any town), and that worries me.

This is the epitome of the soft accusation. You have, if anything, only expressed displeasure with how Edge plays. You happily sheeped him on Plum earlier. Not a whiff of scum read from you.

Next your last imbue before this post was Spyrex himself, so by your own statements you should be trusting him and thus have a Town read.

Yet here you are ‘worried’ that they could be scum together.

Finally take a look at Mari’s scum-hunting ISO. It pretty much consists of sheeping Edge, who she supposedly doesn’t hold in any sort of regard and then parking her vote nice and out of the way on this slot.

This is more than enough, in my mind, to warrant a vote. Mina if you disagree take it up with me in our Hydra QT.

Unvote

VOTE: Mariyta

[MasterSpy]

A note on AGM – I had a strong Town read on his slot before Claim-gate. His explanation for why he did self-imbue in the first post has knocked that into a Town leaning Null read.

Mina is waffling on what she thinks. I currently don’t support lynching him because I don’t have a scum read on him. I also don’t think Imbuing him should be a high priority. His claimed Passive is such that it makes him living beyond Day 2 extemely problematic for the scum. I’d prefer to let him use his normal to prove that power and make scum go into a WIFOM spiral as to whether to kill him with possible protections looming.

If it comes down to either Imbue or Lynch him (which I think is a false dichotomy) then I’d choose to Imbue him based on my read.

I'll see what Mina thinks about this when she checks into the Hydra QT.

--

Oh, hi MasterScum. Nice to meet you. Funny how the main case I've given is on you, and look where you decide to place your vote. Your case is crap, and I hope anyone who reads it is smart enough to go look for themselves. My vote will not be moving today.

I’m not surprised given your play that instead of demonstrating where my case is invalid you instead you resort to rhetoric and call it crap. If you don’t have actual answers for your behavior trying to wave it away in a dismissive manner is all you’ve got, I guess.

And you top it off with an OMGUS accusation. Are you saying I’m not allowed to suspect your play, which is scumtastic, because you put together a ‘case’ on the player I replaced? Sorry kid it doesn’t work that way.

So the main case you’ve given is on me? What happened to that Plum case that you keep saying you made for much of the day? Wasn’t that a main case?

And what exactly happened to the case you said was unwritten on Plum at your ISO 18 again? Did the dissolution of the Plum wagon make your ‘suspicions’ not worth pursuing?

For kicks I looked at your ‘case’ on Euso –

Eus:
-Reason for not joining my wagon was weak, reason for voting Katy was 1000x worse.
-See #101, especially the first half. Makes me go hmmm....
-Joy, then we get the "meek confession" and a sheeping vote on Plum. (Hi Kettle, I'm Pot. Nice to meet you.)
-Hey, and don't forget the sudden "I can't play with Fate!" freakout.

1. Why were his / her reasons weak or worse? Did you see the case I posted? I gave reasons why your activities were scummy. You should try it sometime.
2. So 101 made you go hmmmm. Ok, what in the hell does that mean? Is it scummy? If so why? Is this another case of something you mention (ala your AGM 'noted') but don't back for some reason?
3. I’m not sure what the meek confession link is supposed to show since it links to an Edge post. Is it showing that you basically are piggy-backing off things he said as opposed to providing your own reasoning?
4. So replacing out because you dislike someone / their playstyle is a scum-tell? Just curious because there are a number of players I would replace out the instant they came into a Mini game with me.

In summary if this is your Major Case as described then you are doing a good job of showing that your scum-hunting is likely being faked. So thanks for that.

[MasterSpy]

Mariyta has requested replacement.

What the …. ?

I know there must be a pic out there that summarizes my thoughts on this turn of events but I don't ever use Flicker whatever so I can't insert it here.

[MasterSpy]

@Sevei

– when you weather related problems end I’d like to see a good summary from you that shows some opinions on players other than Plum. Thanks.

--

Oooooh, dissonance in the Edge hydra. Don't you guys have a quicktopic?

I have to somewhat agree that this isn’t real scum-hunting and may qualify as mud-slinging. Hydra’s by nature are never going to be 100% in sync. As an example my read on you is Town at the moment AGM, while Mina is going her regular waffling (sorry Mina ). I don’t think they should be having public slap-fights but presentation of individual opinions that aren’t radically different (moving votes between players as each head posts due to conflict, as an example of what would be radically different) isn’t unusual.

--

If it's time for me to go then it's time for me to go.

Since I replaced in the argument has been OMGZ Mariyta SCUMMY hohum MUST GO

That’s not entirely accurate. Quadz has been calling your slot scummy and voting for you for a while. I addressed my case clearly right before Mari half-heartedly responded and then fled in terror.

On day 1 mind you. It's quite unreasonable to expect a replacement to defend what has been decidedly emotional play. I simply can't do that and

I'm not going to go on the offensive while I'm being wagoned.

tl;dr lynch me or fuck off.

Empahsis added … um what?

If you are not going to defend Mari’s play (which is a reasonable thought process since you aren’t her) then going ‘on the offensive’ and scum-hunting should be what you do.

That you refuse to do so says to me we should just toss you in Mt. Doom and be done with you.

As for not defending Mari’s play you are subtlely doing just that when justifying her play as “emotional” as if scum can’t be such.

[MasterSpy]

If you want my opinion of the game so far you should be looking at the people who voted me immediately after replacing in and before I ever made my first real post. The FATE/RC hydra needs to go.

Why? What about their votes (aside from the little bit you posted on Katy) is scummy and voteworthy? Cases have been made against your slot. Just because you replaced Mariyta who out of the blue ran away doesn’t mean all the work suddenly becomes invalid.

You may be unwilling to defend her but you have to be doing something more proactive than "Look at those bandwagonning me" if you don't want to be burned alive in the Flames of Mt. Doom.

[MasterSpy]

Deadline is coming rather quickly – we need to get the Imbue hammered before HoHum or Plum takes the rope.

--

There's a big difference between here and [REDACTED]. There's a big difference between being called scum and being called not obv-Town, given the contexts. Just as there's a difference between sincere but incorrect scumhunting and mudslinging. Don't confuse the two; I responded to a case of sorts by Edge; in [REDACTED] I found reason to attack you.

There is an big difference in here and redacted – that difference is the wide disparity in you reactions.

In redacted you pretty much went OMGUS crazy when posed with the concept that you weren’t Obv-Town. Not that you were scummy. Just that you were not Obv-Town to be fawned upon (which others were doing). Yeah, and the reason you went on the attack was 100% driven by my suggestion. Please don’t pretend otherwise.

Here Edge outright called you scum and your ‘response’ amounts to ‘Tehe, I forgot about a game I just modded where Fate played as Edge and my Edge is hella-Town comment was just convienantly a coincidence.

Color me suspicious of those differing reactions.

--

Also, MasterSpy is scum. Soooo very scum.
Definitely more dangerous than hohum too.

Are your feelings still hurt Reaper? I can understand that. My next line should go down in the record books –

Thank god Fate is in the hydra with you as a stabalizing influence.

Yes, I’ve said it.

I don't give a sh*t lol. We were dead anyway.

This makes me chuckle. You are both amatuers when it comes to taking the dirt nap N1 compared to me.

--

I don't get the hohum wagon at all. As far as I can remember, Mariyta was never that scummy - she just kept saying she would get around to posting (but never did). At the point where she's replacing out, that just equates to busy in my mind.

I know you don’t bother reading cases but I think I state quite clearly why Mari was scum in my content post. I don’t post them for my health.

--

SS’s catch-up post stinks to high heaven. A large smattering of IIoA plus ...

1. Ignores the Mina mini-case made specifically on her slot.
2. Spends a lot of time talking about the dominate wagon players followed by … wait for it … voting Gandalf. Who isn't going to get lynched today. Sheep just aren't. I will need to review where her votes have gone today at a time to be determined.

--

Sevei continues to be anything but Obv-Town with her lurking.

--

You know what I think is funny? Literally all the people who think I'm scum have hardly ever played with me(SpyreX is the only one who has even played with me at all, IIRC). Somehow I doubt that that's a coincidence.

Hi my name is Gandalf and I love to just MAKE SHIT UP

.

Yes, I went caps there for the lulz.

You know very well that I have played in MANY games with you (Ooba’s Madworld, Lost Season 2, LOTR Large Theme, and Personal Agenda Mafia of the top of my head). And in those games the ONLY time you were not scum / 3rd Party was LOTR Large, where you played VERY DIFFERENT THAN HERE (did it again for more lulz). And you are more than aware I'm actually in the game since you made your little comment to me when I replaced in.

You certainly were not Super-Sheep and Junior CapsLawk Applicant. So yeah, your statement above is bullshit.

@Reaper

– Since you support LYNCH ALL LIARS what do you think of your little sheep?

[MasterSpy]

My little sheep on what, MS

Yes, Obv. Did you suddenly forget how to read for context?

I was asking your opinion on Gandalf (your slots little Sheep) and how he was clearly lying out of his ass and how that intersects with your Lynch All Liars statement above.

[MasterSpy]

What lie? Please quote it.

I already did quote it at the BOTTOM OF THE LAST PAGE. STOP BEING PURPOSEFULLY LAZY. But since you seem to enjoy acting like the poster child for ADHD …

You know what I think is funny? Literally all the people who think I'm scum have hardly ever played with me(SpyreX is the only one who has even played with me at all, IIRC). Somehow I doubt that that's a coincidence.

I explained in detail why he knew this was bullshit (he acknowledges my replace in with a comment about our shared history and when he was Town in said shared history).

--

MoI, you think I'm scum?

Hmmmm.

Must have missed that.

Yeah you tend to miss a lot when you don’t actually read the game but just sheep and post fluff like KEKEKEKEK.

You are in my pool of people who look scumtastic, but aren’t getting the rope today with SS and lurker Sevei. Once we deal with Plum and HoHum you can rest assured I’ll be looking more seriously at you.

[MasterSpy]

I don't see how I acted differently in LOTR though, other than that I was maybe a little more independent. There's a reason for that though. That game, I had to take it on myself to get the game out of RVS(nobody had any serious suspicions until I did my jokeclaim), so I had to form my own opinions because nobody else had any yet. This game, Edge did that. So I'm playing a different role, although I did take some independence in my argument with SS.

I read through your ISO in LOTR and I respectfully disagree. No signs of sheeping of anyone to be found. Sparing use of all-caps and little fluffy KEKEKEK crap.

Futhermore the ‘getting out of RVS’ excuse doesn’t really mean much. RVS tends to end very soon.

--

And, holy fucking shit. He's deliberately bringing back "OMG YOR LYING ABOUT PAST META!!" discussions with his #473. This shit already happened with Plum and you're bringing it back again?

I’m sorry I missed the part where I wasn’t able to make observations in the game.

vote: MasterSpy(Plus, I have an MoI D1 lynch streak going on and I dun wanna break it. >:D)

This is further evidence you just are bad at this game, not that half the game doesn’t already know this.

1. Calling 1 game a streak is classic.
2. So you want to continue that ‘streak’ where you lynched me as Town? Yeah, that’s smart

Do us all a favor and lay of the weed. It’s irreparably damaged your cognitive functions.

However I do appreciate you are so willing to park you vote somewhere away from either of the dominant wagons so close to deadline, especially somewhere you have no chance of successfully starting a wagon. Both you and Singer doing that provides good information for future days.

[MasterSpy]

hohum is now on my must-avoid list based on his play this game, particularly if he's town. I'll PM a link to this game to any mod who considers letting him replace in. Honestly, why the fuck did you bother to replace into this game just for the sake of screwing it over?

I've been spread very thin this week and forcing Magna to pick up the slack, but since Magna is V/LA this weekend, I'll hold up the fort. I wish he was here to weigh in on hohum's claim and slip, though.

First of all, as much as I'm glad hohum is coming under fire, and as much as I have a sinking feeling of dread that Magna will kill me for even suggesting this...no one hammer yet. I'm actually wondering if the conservative move is to leave him alive, as godawful as he is.

I don't think the slip alone is proof positive of his being scum (since multiple Mafia games have conditioned me to have a Pavlovian green = town, red = Mafia reaction to a flip; also, hands up if you went "goddamn it" for a split second after Plum's flip only to do a double-take). But we were both planning to start today with a vote right out of the gates for hohum. Magna in particular was close to convinced hohum was scum after that quickhammer. Because hohum's "yeah, it will be obvious in the morning" sounds in retrospect as though he

knew

Plum would flip scum. Since he and Plum were the only viable lynches, then even if Plum got an eleventh-hour reprieve, the votes would shift to him. Our theory was that he panicked and tried to buy last-minute town cred by jumping onto Plum's wagon. Read hohum in ISO. He doesn't so much as mention Plum (even though she was by far the most contentious issue of the game), and yet when SS puts her at L-1, he insta-hammered?

Never mind that it explained why Mariyta kept saying she had reasons to suspect Plum beyond sheeping Edge, but never made a case on her and later dropped her attack.

That said...if we leave hohum alive tonight, we'll find out for sure if he's scum or town by whether there are two kills or one. If there are two, then that means he's almost certainly town (maybe an SK, but the flavour suggests that there's only one scumteam?). Meanwhile, if there's one, that means he's almost certainly a lying scumbag trying to fish for a doctor (in which case, we'll lynch him a day later, but so what?).

So I'm not sure if it's better to lynch a very likely but not 100% confirmed scumbag today, or wait another night to have further evidence.

gandalf, obviously don't answer this if you think this will give something away. But can you at least say if you definitely know that there was another kill that was blocked last night? If you know without a doubt one was sent, that means hohum is almost certainly not Mafia.

Also, hohum, claim your character name. Right now.

Confirmed Scum:
AGM

I'm not even sure why I'm trying to reason with you as if you're a rational being, but humour me. Why is AlmasterGM "confirmed scum"? I missed just what caused your turnabout. You never once mentioned him yesterday.

(On a side note, I'd like to make a post tomorrow night explaining my dissenting view on AGM--at the very least, to get a reaction or defence from AGM. AGM and Plum (-_-) were really the only differences of opinion I've had with Magna this game. Although AGM's side of their interaction is looking increasingly genuine, hohum's random attack on him is the kind of thing I'd expect as distancing from a buddy.)

Quadz...I think it's time to give us the details of what happened last night. Cuz like, that would be totally tubular, dude.
Especially since I think you're frantic for a reason.

VV, I think it's best to listen to my fiance and explain what you mean now. He's not a force to be reckoned with when he knows what he's talking about. Guess who got the ring last night. Guess who probably knows what he's talking about.

Okay, I don't know if you're being all cutesy with him because he's your fiance, but I really don't like your interactions with quadz today. Sometimes I feel as though you're trying to appeal to your relationship outside the game to get him on your good side with all this "just listen to my fiance, he's so awesome!" talk. And I know that accusations of role-fishing are often thrown around too casually, but do you really have to keep going, "Hey, so what did you do last night? What power did the ring grant you? Come on, tell me! Tell me!" And you were pestering him to reveal before his first post of the day, before his "nervous energy," as well. quadz can decide for himself if he has something useful to reveal.

Mind you, quadz's first few posts today have been a bit weird, particularly how he was more focused on VV's claim than on hohum's vig and implosion. I thought from the context that the "might" was more "I might be the reason that the kill was blocked," not "I might have targeted Edge, but I'm not sure." I'd also say that if VV is lying, that makes hohum even

more

likely to be scum (since that means there was only one kill and VV is covering for him, but don't answer this. (EBWOPreview--yes, I really spent that much time writing this post: Okay, it seems like shenanigans are occurring, so I'll retract this comment.) I also didn't like how quick he was to follow Fate and change his mind on hohum, particularly in comparison to his white-knighting of Plum-scum yesterday. I mean, AGM was the one who first pointed out hohum's slip.

quadz, can you explain in more detail just what caused your turnabout on hohum? Just Fate repeating "two scumteams" five zillion times?

Waiting on Magna's return before I vote or imbue.

[MasterSpy]

Oh shit, I don't know why I didn't mention this yesterday: I have near-confirmation in my role that scum have a roleblocker.

*sighs*

So much for my "confirm hohum as town/scum by the number of kills plan," then.

@MS: I have no reason to believe that there was another kill. I do KNOW that VV did not block any kills last night.

...Okay.

Never mind. I take back everything I said in my wall post above.

If you're telling the truth, that pretty much guarantees that hohum is scum trying to pass off his kill. (Which means VV just outed himself for nothing. <_<)

As a side note, why do people keep speculating that 1) a kill was blocked last night, and 2) hohum is scum? Obviously, it's one or the other.

@quadz: Okay, fair enough re: your stances on hohum and VV. FWIW, I still lean town on you. And for some reason, I got the impression that Fate quoting the slip (even though AGM had initially spotted it) gave you an epiphany from the tone of your post. Looking back, you never outright CONTRADICTED that read. Question: did you notice the slip immediately, or was Fate the one who brought it to your attention?

Also, I'd written much of that before catching onto your wink-wink, nudge-nudge, so that's why I couldn't explain the weird undercurrent to your questions to VV. My post was a bit schizoid in tone as a result.

And it's 4 AM, and I'm so sleep-deprived that I don't think I've logically processed the two-scumteams comment. So I'm reading everyone going, "Ha ha, hohum was caught in a damning slip!", but it's not quite sinking into my brain.

[MasterSpy]

Re: singersigner's most recent posts...wow.

Wow

.

First of all, I think this quote from gandalf summarizes my thoughts on imbuing claims:

SS, you do realize that superpowers are improved versions of normal powers, so to claim what quadz did last night would be basically claiming? And why do YOU need confirmation of what happened last night? You trusted quadz enough to give him superpowers. At that point, what he did with him should be irrelevant.

It's the equivalent to asking your top town read to arbitrarily claim his night action. I don't believe the imbuee owes us anything; we can evaluate whether he used his power properly in due time, just like with a normal role.

(Also, although I thought your question was antitown, it was more the buddy-buddy "quadz is awesome, and he totally has extra information now, right? Right? Why don't you tell your fiancee what it is?" that stuck in my craw.)

I'll concede to SS that it makes sense to wonder about quadz's ability after he asked VV about his read, although I still think she should have kept her mouth shut.

The fact that you're trying to be the "good guy" by saying "oh no, don't bother him, it'll come out when it's ready, blahblahblah" is not good. There's no reason that a publicly imbued superpower should not be help accountable for. You're either protecting your scum buddy quadz (no, you're not, he's town, get over it), or you're scum playing victim like duh rolefishing is scummy even though this is a perfectly legitimate reason to need to understand what's actually going on.

Wait a minute.

Wait. A. Minute.

singersigner, are you saying that you asked because you wanted to make sure he didn't misuse his ring?

Even though these were your thoughts on quadz FROM HIS FIRST POST OF THE GAME:

And I find it very hypocritical that you jump down my throat for trusting quadz' reads so early, and yet there's all this sheeping bit with Fate going on, and Plum dictating that Edge is town in the beginning, etc. At least quadz did something I deemed to be a ridiculous town play for him, and has since then been very proactive and townie. And what the hell is wrong with being able to read my fiance like a book? You'd think you'd take that as an advantage, hmm?

When I called you on how silly it was for you to call his opening post a "ridiculous town play," you dismissed my case with "yeah, he's clear obvtown when I see him play." I can give more examples of how you don't once entertain quadz being guilty for a moment, just chide him on being wrong or not agreeing with your suspect.

I think this excuse rings false. You'd have been better off playing the "I was just curious about the set-up and overeager to know if he had a cop guilty" card. But you've spent so much time playing up how pure your trust in quadz is and how well you can read him from one half-hearted post that I don't believe you were really concerned for a moment with how he'd use the ring.

But you know what I dislike most? That when I tell you not to ask power roles to claim, instead of just admitting you should have been more careful, you try to turn it around on me. "How dare you accuse me of rolefishing when I'm being a concerned townie! Since you clearly don't care about the town's welfare like I do, you must be protecting your scumpartner quadz...oh, shit, I just said quadz was super-town...that doesn't work. I mean, um...you CLEARLY know that quadz is town already, because otherwise you'd find it of the gravest importance to know what power quadz gained from his ring last night." This is just such a ridiculous and unfair smear job that it makes my blood boil.

That's it. After hohum, you're next.

Oh yeah. I forgot. You're scum who knows quadz is town for sure and don't need to keep him accountable for what happened last night. Hohum's probably scum with Plum if there's a second team, and there was probably a second kill that got blocked and now VV's trying to cover it up and act all town (which quadz has clearly picked up on...seriously...stop being so obvious). So he's prob scum with MS.

Oh, not you as well with the second scum teams. Did you miss the part where Andrius explicitly says the scum are the Heroes of Light?

This paragraph might as well be screaming, "hohum is my scumbuddy!" What I love is that you call hohum scum, but spin a paranoid conspiracy theory involving multiple scumteams to try to justify why VV would still lie about his role, so you can vote him instead.

Your suspicions sound completely contrived. I don't believe that

you

believe there's a MS-VV vs. hohum-Plum scumteam.

Also, please explain what changed your mind between this:

Hohum...the fact that you didn't know Katy was town is pretty damming, I hope you realize that.

and this:

Also, I do have an example where I replaced into a theme game and misjudged the flip simply because of the color. I was quickly mislynched as town.

While I do think it's ridiculous, unfortunately I can relate.

[MasterSpy]

I read through the thread last night but was too tired to actually post …

--

First things first –

Imbue: VV

Blocking multiple targets is increadibly powerful and if Edge ends up dead we can safely assume he’s lying and outed scum. Win / Win.

VOTE: HoHum

I’m disappointed Mina didn’t take care of these in her post. Aside from everything I said yesterday HoHum’s hammer after Mari has all the hallmarks of scum desperate for cred. And the following cannot be ignored.

A scum aligned mason? That means we're dealing with two scum factions?

I’d point to [REDACTED] in [REDACTED] if I could as another classic example of why this is a pure scum-claim.

I'm claiming because it's obvious that someone either had a successful protect or a roleblock last night and we should be lynching that person's target.

Translated – oops I just screwed up badly I might as well try to fish for Town PRs before I hang.

'cos I'm a greedy motherfucker? I didn't want to have to deal with her today. It was either her or fate. I contemplated vigging whoever got imbuned yesterday too because I figured scum had as much of a chance of winning an imbune as any of us did. meh.

Um what? You vigged Katy not because she was scummy but because you didn’t want to deal with suspicion? You considered vigging Fate for a personal grudge or whoever got imbued based on completely stupid statistical thinking.

I disagreed with your logic in the one game we played together but this is just so bad it’s making my head spin.

Also as far as the rest of the game is concerned, I'm almost positive that the fact that quadz was imbued last night clears him. If he were scum he should have submitted the kill. Based on the imbune mechanics that kill would have succeeded regardless of blocks/protects.

What imbue mechanics are you speaking of? The theorized but unproven notion that the Ringbearer can’t be role-blocked?

--

Hohum...the fact that you didn't know Katy was town is pretty damming, I hope you realize that.

This is bad. A Town player might suspect Katy was Town via reads (as I personally did) but not knowing for certain is part of the Uninformed Minority gig. The damning part is not the vig on Katy but the reasons for such and the ‘Wow she was scum’ reaction which makes no sense if you had a Morder Role Pm

.

Quadz...I think it's time to give us the details of what happened last night. Cuz like, that would be totally tubular, dude.
Especially since I think you're frantic for a reason

Why exactly should anyone be giving any Powers away when not absolutely necessary? We've already had VV claim and soft-claims by Gandalf and Quadz. AGM is already outed. Town giving a fucking roadmap to NKs is not smart.

Also please clarify what the frantic part means. Are you insinuating that Quadz might be scummy?

I'M SAYING THAT IF HOHUM IS NOT TELLING THE TRUTH THEN HE COULD BE SCUM WITH PLUM,

NOT OH YES I THINK THERE ARE TWO SCUM GROUPS.
Actually, I'm ready to believe Plum, VV, MS scumteam right now. Just saying.

Hohum's probably just dumb like I was in my game before.

1. Excuse making “hohum is just dumb” noted.
2. Soft acknowledgment of hohum’s scumminess (bolded for emphasis) while refusing to actually support said lynch noted.

--

What the hell is behind the VV wagon that popped up again? He may have been stupid to claim as he did but he was under little pressure.

Who the hell is on that again?

VasudeVa (4): singersigner, quadz08, hohum, gandalf5166

This is for future reference.

Also the following really makes me wonder

VasudeVa (4): Edge, SpyreX,

gandalf5166

, VasudeVa

Gandalf what the fuck are you doing imbuing and voting the same player?

--

EVEN IF VV HAD BEEN ROLEBLOCKED HE WOULD STILL BE TRACKED AS HAVING TARGETED EDGE

As previously stated that’s not how things work. And why do you immediately dismiss the notion that VV could be blocked when you yourself said your role-PM pretty much indicates a scum Blocker is in the game?

[MasterSpy]

Basically at this juncture I’m waiting on Dekes to get caught up. I think Mina has started her February V/LA early since she’s provided nothing in the QT as of late.

--

This post is 200% awesome and anyone still imbuing VV is mentally handicapped.

OH MY SHIT

EDGE, I MUST PRAISE YOUR MASTER PLAN

Unimbue
Imbue VV

I found this juxtaposition funny. Once again it’s stupid … oh wait Fate said to do so … it’s Genius!!!

--

It's weird...for some reason the Edge part of the hydra seemed to think quadz was probably scum until today, with an unexplained turnaround to calling him town.

I don't like that we can't get that clarified now.

Elaborate on this. Are you implying that Dekes’ slot has done something scummy? Are you implying that Quadz is scummy?

Also I had some questions for you at 753. Please answer them.

[MasterSpy]

Consider hohum on my personal blacklist.

Actually, I don't have a blacklist, and I'd probably be too much of a wuss to actually replace out of a game he was in...but...but...SHUT UP! The sentiment is still there!

I really hate the attitude of some of the players on this site.

I'm going on V/LA now, and MoI won't be back from his, but he told me there'd be words if I dropped the ball this time and didn't do this:

VOTE: singersigner

hohum's town flip decreases my certainty in her guilt (because she wasn't trying to leave other lynch options open with the two-scum-team theory), but I still have many, many problems with her play.

I'm going back to look at MasterSpy. Lots of doubt with that one. Actions yesterday speak for themselves...

*twitch*

Humour me. Which "actions" speak for themselves? You mean, my calling you on trying to wheedle quadz into claiming, and then you saying that only scum would dislike such a protown question?

This is so frustrating. I'm totally fucked over for my trip right now because I still haven't even bought half the stuff I need, and I don't even have time to show a list of quotes where I asked you direct questions you never answered, or called you on points proving that you were either lying or justifying yourself terribly, only for you to dismiss them out of hand. But no one has even noticed that you're talking out of your ass about my actions that speak for themselves. BECAUSE EVERYONE GOES, "Oh, it's just another longwinded Mina post. Who cares?" *skims*

Hey, Fate, if you're too lazy to ISO the entire MasterSpy slot, can you at least do me a favour and read this post? Please? Even if you disagree with me? Did you even notice singersigner's story with two scumteams? I'm generous with gut town reads, but that sounded a lot more like scum theorizing than town theorizing. The part where she backtracked and said she asked quadz' action JUST TO MAKE SURE HE'S USING RIGHT, HONEST, EVEN THOUGH I'M 100% CONVINCED HE'S TOWN?

Dammit, do I have to appeal to our history as star-crossed lovers to get you to at least read something I write?

...I'll even save the second part of what I was writing for another post, just to increase the chances that SOMEONE reads this.

[MasterSpy]

EBWOP: I meant to say, Magna's on V/LA until tomorrow.

I'm going off until the 28th now. I'll post more in the hydra QT, but this are my reads right now. I apologize in advance if Magna comes in and shouts at me, because he's V/LA and hasn't posted in the hydra QT lately:

Before the quadz kill, we were leaning toward a singersigner-Sevei scumteam. It's not just Sevei's lurking; whenever she shows up, she just writes a long reasonable post agreeing with the case on the suspect du jour, then disappears. It's so easy to fake that kind of play as scum. I don't think she's given opinions of any players other than Plum, MS, hohum, and singersigner, and even her long posts are just rephrasing others' arguments against Plum, MS and hohum. Hers is also the first vote on Plum that felt like potential bussing. Part of it was PoE.

Now I don't know what to think anymore.

Magna keeps warning me Fate is a ruthless busser, but I entertain Fate being evil, I will spiral into madness. So...no. Never mind that gandalf the protective role targeted him when there was no Mafia kill. I don't think it's gandalf, because even though he's been a Fate sheep, he probably wouldn't have used that as cover to attack Plum. SpyreX was early on Plum and had felt very townish (more on him below, though). AGM has his roleclaim (and fuuuck, I never even got a chance to post my dissenting opinion; in a nutshell, aside from his flip-flop on Plum, I'm suspicious of Andy granting a player an ability to extend LYLO an extra day in a game with no VTs. As an imbue power, maybe, but as a passive? WTF does that have to do with his note power?)

I'm really torn on VasudeVa. We'd been null-ish on him before his claim, and I agreed with Magna that his unprompted claim was unlikely for scum. But the quadz kill set my paranoia off. Either scum killed quadz because they thought they might have a clear shot at him, or because VV thought he could use Fate as an excuse for not targeting quadz. And the balance is increasingly starting to make two protective roles unlikely.

SpyreX confuses me. Maybe I'm too prone to trusting players who are early on scum wagons, but I had a town read on him for most of the game. Aside from his Plum push, his early request not to have the ring and overall activity felt townish. (There was a moment in which I wondered if he was

Mariyta's

buddy when he voted her after Mariyta's wagon seemed like a rising star, but my doubts evaporated after Plum's flip.) Magna actually trusted him more than Fate, because he claimed that Fate is always a mega-busser. Hell, I even predicted to Magna last night that SpyreX might be the NK because of all the WIFOM over whom VV would protect.

But his play today is setting off the paranoia. I really didn't like how blase he is about his roleclaim: "Oh, yeah, I'm an enabler--actually, no, not that kind of enabler. Oh, and ha ha, I'm looking for gandalf, but there is no gandalf, go figure." And I got the same vibe Fate did that Spy was trying to appease him and back away at times. Also, MS is a non-entity? WTF? Maybe this is OMGUS, but I hated him saying, "Oh, sure, I'd wagon MS" AFTER Fate called him on never following up on his esurio suspicions. I'd have felt waaaaaay better about him if he'd stuck to his guns.

Ugh. I didn't want to add yet another player to the suspect pool.

Hey, singersigner, question. What do you think of SpyreX? Since you know, the Fate-SpyreX back and forth has taken up a bit of page space, it'd be nice if you weighed in on it.

Also, what sold you on VV being dumbtown, considering you'd thought he was scum yesterday,

before

he failed to protect quadz? Something does not compute here.

I'll ask Magna to work some of his VC analysis magic while I'm gone for the week.

[MasterSpy]

And sorry for such a horribly wishy-washy post. To be honest, I'm kind of relieved to let Magna take the reins for a while.

Wait a minute.

Katy, The Witch-King of Angmar (Mason for Mordor), Decapitated Night One!

quadz08, The Dark Marshal (Voyeur for Mordor), Shot In-between the Eyes N2!

As I have a hunch kill flavour is related to character (I'll elaborate later)...

Andrius: if two people target the same player for a kill (say, with "decapitated" and "shot in-between the eyes") how will the flavour show up? Would either "decapitated" or "shot in-between the eyes" take precedence, or would the player flip as "decapitated and shot between the eyes"?

[MasterSpy]

Did I just see a "I'm less certain ss is scunm"+"vote:ss" combo?

I have good news Spy

Nice try, but no:

hohum's town flip decreases my certainty in her guilt (because she wasn't trying to leave other lynch options open with the two-scum-team theory),

but I still have many, many problems with her play.

She's still my top suspect. But I'd got all excited yesterday when she started spewing her ridiculous "second scumteam" theory. Because if hohum was scum, it would make a lot of sense for her to say, "Yeah, hohum is totally scum, but I'm going to attack you guys who are voting for him instead!" So that's one tinfoil conspiracy theory I need to lay to rest.

[MasterSpy]

I don't know if I'm excited or terrified.

Do any of these plans involve reading the post I linked to?

Now I'm heading out for good. See you in a week, and bash some elven skulls while I'm gone.

[MasterSpy]

Firstly hohum also makes my official list of players never to play with again.

--

No excuses here. I sent my protect to Fate, Gandalf, Sevei.

Explain why you chose Sevei over either AGM or Quadz. Especially in light of the following quote from Sevei –

2. Neither VV nor Quadz knew who I was when we were talking unless they figured it out on their own. I signed into the QT as "The Precious." And I assume neither VV nor Quadz revealed the presence of the ring in the game because it's obviously a surprise mechanic.

--

Mina/MS: Why did you only consider me as a possible partner of SS and Plum until Quadz died?

I’m not going to speak for Mina. I don’t generally look for teams myself. I think you could easily be scum and have thought so since I replaced it. Notice that my first post keep questioning the ‘Town’ read everyone had on you?

1. For all the reasons elucidated before. Up until today you hopped in, make a post that looks like scum-hunting but was simply parroting, and disappear. That’s classic stay under the radar early game play.
2. You've contained your reads into a narrow band, not committing to very much to keep your options open.
3. Your claim to being the One Ring, Neighborizor, doesn’t make any sense from a Town perspective. If you didn’t already notice Town already has confirmed Masons and AGM’s claim of information sender. Set-up wise it doesn’t make a ton of sense to have Town aligned semi-redundant roles (Likewise I don’t believe that both Gandalf and VV are both Town).

Quadz never clarified how many people visited Edge on N1. In fact, he deliberately made a point of hiding the number of people when he claimed.

Um I disagree whole-heartedly. Because quadz saying “1 OF THEM WAS GANDALF” inherently implies that more than one person targeted Edge. And don’t say the other person was Quadz himself. That’s implied by his claim.

So, on N1, Edge was watched AND roleblocked by Quadz, who was most definitely Town.

Therefore, either a) another town blocker stopped the kill; b) there was no kill; or c) Quadz blocked the kill.

In light of above you are missing d) Gandalf blocked the kill.

Additionally b is stupid in context unless the Mafia are absolute morons.

The thing is, I'm pretty sure if someone tried to kill Edge and Gandalf protected him, then Quadz would not have seen the unsuccessful kill, just as he didn't see VV's unsuccessful visit, which means that if anyone else successfully visited Edge that night, it wasn't to kill him.

This is a pretty poor handle on how the mechanics work based on standard MS conventions. Do you have reason to believe a Doc protect would be seen differntly than normal?

VV did not appear (assuming he isn’t lying and also was role-blocked) to have visited Fate because if he was role-blocked he does not take ANY action.

A kill that was prevented by Gandalf does not follow that pattern. Player X visits Fate in an attempt kill him. Gandalf protects Fate. The kill does not go through because of this but Player X still visits Fate.

--

Anywho, I am The Balrog
Normal Power: I can see if someone is Gandalf and if they are kill them (HAHAHA Gandalf can't be in the game yeehaw)
Super Power: I can Enable someone and they act twice in the next night phase.

So you are claiming a Normal power that is useless since Gandalf can’t be in the fucking game (aka completely useless) but a Super-Power that is awesome. That makes absolutely no sense in context of your ‘I don’t want the Ring’ Day 1 play.

--

@Singer

– I’ll respond to your ‘case’ in a follow-up post but I’m not going to clutter a game relevant thread responding to likely scum.

Also, Singer - what in the hell are you going on about in regards to 'Scum don't have SuperPowers'? Really. So your theory is that Town is absolutely loaded to the gills with Powers and Superpowers but scum don't have any? You current 'scum' reads would give Town 2 protective roles, Masons, a Neighborizer, a modified Innocent Child or whatever the hell AGM is, Vig and a Voyeur. Yet ostensibly scum have a Tracker and no SuperPowers. That makes no sense at all form a set-up standpoint, not even considering the Power and Superpower we have.

I dare you to insult my knowledge of my fiance one more time.

Yes, your read on quadz had to be 100% great play and not because you knew he wasn’t your partner via your role PM.

Quadz said he saw more than one person target you N1. I'm gunna take a gander and say that you weren't targeted for a kill. Nor were you in threat of dying. Considering there was only one kill that night, made by a vig.

Marshal implies some sort of cop ability, but watcher was only part of his ability with his superpower...

VV, you're either stupid town or stupid scum. I can't believe that with your imbuing power, you didn't protect the person who's given us the most information so far, and was pretty much confirmed town with Gandalf. Way to fucking waste your night action.

Fate, you had fucking ridiculous grounds for bussing Plum, but it worked, and now you have this "cleared town" nonsense about you.

VOTE: Fate

Make note of this whole paragraph in context of the information to come. Sevei had yet to specifically reveal the Role-block element of Quadz’s claimed Super. Look at the bolded portion of the statement. I see this block as Singer jumping the gun on going after Fate due to the ‘roleblock Fate = no kill’ theory that gets floated later.

MasterSpy is not town. I will post my thoughts on this once I finish my post. And yes, it will include responses to the questions "they've" asked me.

So what was the hold-up that made you wait THIS LONG to actually do so as opposed to just throwing rhetoric around?

Fate, you're going to single-handedly lose this game for town.

VV is town gawddamnit. Sevei is...well I'm going to assume she's town-aligned by being the ring's "voice" or whatever. Which, derp, makes her town.

Fear-mongering. How quaint.

Also I love for an instant that you don’t even pretend to question Sevei’s claim. Scum can never be Neighborizors … oh wait they can.

And Fate, read the gawddamn thread. MasterSpy only voted for me AFTER I was like, oh look, this is why he's scum. It's just unfortunate that he's getting away with doing it before I actually got my case up.

Bullshit. Mina put together a case on you Day 1. You don’t get to play tea-party and say we only voted after you put suspicion down.

[MasterSpy]

So long as you go after MasterSpy, who literally said he won't respond to me because "I'm scum" (hint, discussion is pro-town, refusing to participate is refusing to incriminate yourself)

I don’t know what’s worse about this, the fact that you are FUCKING OUTRIGHT LYING or your hypocrisy.

1. Here’s what I said in regards to your ‘case’

@Singer –

I’ll respond to your ‘case’ in a follow-up post

but I’m not going to clutter a game relevant thread responding to likely scum.

So the bolded IS EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU JUST CLAIMED. I know you don’t want to let the facts get in the way of your rhetoric.

And it’s funny that I can’t let my fucking life get in the way of responding immediately to your little case but you ignored the one presented on you by Mina until today.

And you didn’t respond at all to all the other things I pointed out today – like the fact that you tried to claim our vote on you is somehow OMGUS since you beat us to posting after Day 3 opened. Way to once again ignore the DAY 1 SUSPICION.

[MasterSpy]

This post is devoted to Singer since she’s whiny and demands things from others but doesn't respond to questions herself:

Response to your ‘case’ –

Ok, so not as awesome as I thought, and I forgot that I had plans to comment on the “case” specifically after my catchup post, but I suck and forgot.

So basically you’ve been saying you did respond but now you remembered you forgot. OK, that totally makes sense after all the rhetoric bullshit you were flowing later about how discussion is Pro-Town. Hypocrit.

Ok. So 1) you’re putting words in my mouth with this “100% positive” nonsense, 2) I’ve already explained why I felt like quadz was being protown. Here’s the thing, it was AFTER AGM had said “don’t do it unless you have something good”…or something like that. He then proved me right. Scum voting for themselves know that what they have that’s more beneficial to scum is the fact that town won’t get a power boost because of it. Can you find anything to suggest that scum have super powers? We’ve already speculated that they probably don’t. Most likely balanced by the fact that Fate doesn’t have a superpower. O.o

Unless you are selectively cropping the original quote there is nothing in what you quoted with said anything about 100% positive. So either you’ve chosen to selectively trim or are putting words in our mouth yourself.

AGM posted that “use only awesome SuperPowers” early in game. What relevance does that have to your “Quadz is Town” I can totally read him statement?

You’ve yet to provide any posts that SPECIFICALLY where you read him as Town. All you’ve done is say “Dudez I can totally read him!” Just as easily you could have know he was Town since he isn’t in your Role-PM as a partner. That’s right. I’m not writing you off as Town for an Inventor claim.

I love the divergence you make here suggesting the scum don’t have Super-Powers. You are asking us to prove an absence of evidence is wrong. That’s fautly logic. Again, is your opinion that Town is absolutely brimming with powers and super-powers and scum just don’t have them?

I’ve also noticed that each time someone (Mari and RC) calls MasterSpy scum, he responds with snarky rhetoric. Hello, hypocrisy.

Hey, why don’t you provide some posts to back up the accusation? I know that’s something new to you but you could give it a try once … (see what I did there?).

Can you commit to a read on ANYONE but Fate and Spyrex? Oh, Fate’s practically confirmed town, I guess you have to do that now. Ok. So Spyrex is your scum-buddy, two. He’s the one scum on part of the, one scum on/one scum off deal with bussing, isn’t he. (Still going back to check on that one, but the more I read your ISO, the more I’m thinking you’re digging a hole FOR him…)

I love how inaccurate this is? We’ve only given reads on Fate and Spyrex? Lulz, what?

We called AGM Town. We nailed you as scum. I questioned Sevei based on her player. We made a strong case on bad-Town Mari / Hohum.

So are you just not reading the thread yourself (one of your favourite attacks I notice) or once again are you throwing specifically incorrect crap out there hoping it will not be refuted?

Yes. Because clearly scum’s been terribly successful considering they didn’t get a NK the first night. Scum’s undoubtedly been given some sort of fake-claim, which is obvious by Spyrex’s latest gem. WHICH REMINDS ME WHY I BECAME SO SUSPICIOUS OF HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Scumtastic answer Singer. Since Scum missed a kill N1 we should feel free to force Town claims as soon as possible for the lulz. What’s the point of your fake-claim comment again and how does it apply to your obv role-fishing?

No, and I never did. Even when I was trying to keep quadz accountable for his ring power N1, I had always thought he was town. Him being frantic meant that something he didn’t understand happened. It showed confusion, which means he wasn’t positive something pro-town has occurred.

By ‘holding him accountable’ you meant the obv claim-fishing you did, right?

Ok…not at ALL what I was talking about. In fact, your last sentence is exactly what I was talking about. This is seriously where that confirmation bias comes is. You’ve been dead set on painting me to be scum, so you’ve stopped questioning what I’m talking about like a normal scum-hunting townie, but instead interpreting what I’m saying in an anti-town way automatically.

What were you talking about again? You said “the fact thet you didn’t know Katy was town is pretty damning”. Why? Just because you considered her obv doesn’t mean Hohum share your view. And after the fact we know he ended up just being Fail-Town. I don’t see why we shouldn’t question your magical Town seeking reads as suspect.

So your tunnelling on us and trying to link us to Spyrex is normal Town scum-hunting but our pressure and cases on you aren’t? Make up your mind.

OH HO. Someone’s a little defensive. So did you miss the fact that I absolutely had legitimate reasons for questioning quadz about what happened N1? Your words, not mine, it was such a protown question, wasn’t it. But no, that’s not what I said. I said you’re scum because you’re specifically avoiding the fact that it’s protown to keep him accountable, and trying to make me look worse because of it. Bad reaching is bad.

1. Over-defensive fallacy spotted right off the port bow, Captain!
2. Again, your assertion that you had legitimate reasons to push for quadz to out as much of his role as possible early isn’t accurate. It was scummy.
3. The phrase ‘protown question’ was referring to your stance on it, not our opinion. Nice twisting attempt.
4. Umm, how is pressing to out a PR good for Town again. All you accomplished was to wheddle out enough information to give Scum a reason to perhaps kill him with no Pro-Town benefit. Good job!

This post is full of non-committal, back and forth, I’m open for just about anything r
eads. If I have to bold all of them I will, but I don’t want to take up that much more space.

Can you point out where it goes against the previously well stated cases for you as scum and my personal questioning of Sevei? That would be great.

I love that you are attacking indecision as purely scummy. Clearly Town should be absolutely locked into their reads and never have any doubt. Especially when things like HoHum not being SK / Scum turn up. Because as the Uniformed Minority they know the alignment of those in the game.

Oh wait, that’s the Mafia not Town. My bad.

OMG, you finally learned how to throw your partner under the bus! That should answer your question just nicely

Lulz. Rhetoric as opposed to answering the question.

[MasterSpy]

I’m first going to suggest that AGM be Imbued tonight. He can confirm via Mod to Fate and another player of his choice. This pretty much puts a 100% stranglehold on the game via PoE.

--

Yes.

AGM did you message something out of Romeo and Juliet with the word literally appended to it? Mina failed to mention we got a PM from the Mod

--

Bah. I was expecting MasterSpy to counterclaim and then mercilessly lynch him afterwards. Well there goes that, time to drop the act.

Wow, what a masterful Tarp …

No way MasterSpy is a swordsmith with a "WITH SWORD" guilty on Hohum. He didn't act like he had a guilty on D2. Cops usually go hyperagressive and instantaenously vote the guilty(maybe claim later if no one believes him). It took him multiple wall posts before he voted. That's not how you act with a guilty result.

I voted in my first post and specifically chastised Mina for not doing so.

--

He used plural pronouns, but he also deliberately "[redacted]" his exact number of reads. I never said that the other person would be Quadz; what I am saying is that Quadz seems to have been hiding an exact number because he may have thought he was protecting town PRs

So unless he specifically told you in QT how many people visited Edge the logical outcomes you are drawing are 100% pure speculation on your part.

Yet when I bring up this entire thing about the roleblock, MS NEVER entertains the possibility that Fate was the roleblocked scum killer in his subsequent posts and focuses mostly on SS and a little on me. Considering Mina's revelations about how MoI was concerned about Fate bussing Plum, AND her little "teehee nevermind THIS RIGHT HERE" comment that suggested EXACTLY WHAT MY CLAIM ABOUT QUADZ DID, then why avoid the issue altogether once I've claimed it in the open?

Because by the time you outed said aspect today we’ve had zero QT interactions due to our overlapping V/LAs? Plus considering that after Day 2 it was pretty clear that Fate was the other Mason his being the killer became an impossibility. Thus I didn’t push to scan him N2.

Isn't it very convenient that the two people who have been investigated are the known Vig (who decapitated Katy, obviously with a sword) and the confirmed Doctor? And that oops, looks like scum may not even be using swords that often anyway?

Um what? When did Gandalf become confirmed to you? Curious.

The rest of your speculation about flavor is noted. Because no-one who survived in Andy’s first game ever use swords. Let me look at who that was –

Prince Imrahil – Human so guessing a sword.
Legolas – Obv Bow.
Galardrial – I don’t think anything? I don’t recall her ever taking up arms in the books.
Glorfindel – Again no clue beyond knowing he was an elf who killed a Balrog.
Boromir – Sword (also confirmed in this game)
Elrond – Does he ever even fight in the Tolkien books?
Ewoyn – Sword based on beheading of Witch King IIRC.

So of the 6 remaining people who could be Scum two are clear Sword users, 1 is clear Bow user, and 3 I don’t know enough flavor to say either way

.

--

@Singer – I love how you say not a peep when Sevei outright says she doesn’t give reads. Isn’t that a scum-tell? Inconsistency for the loss, Alex.

I mean, I knew you were a doc. But he doesn't piece things together like that. Honestly, you were kind of making it seem like (and mind you, this is just if you were looking at your ISO and not connecting it with anyone else's) you could've been a watcher. i.e. I KNOW for a fact that VV didn't lose the ability. I took that to mean because you were the one protecting Fate, and he might've assumed that there was another watcher since he had the ring, and could've assumed that the ring gave him an extra power that he didn't have originally. Maybe Sevei can clarify this since she said he claimed his ability to her?

This makes no sense.

1. You outed Gandalf’s soft-claim in thread before Quadz died.
2. Quadz was a Vouyer. It makes zero sense for him to not be immediately suspicious of a soft-Watcher claim. Yet he didn't push Gandalf in the slightest.

Chock full of pointless speculation.

MasterSpy, every time you point out my fear-mongering, but continue to dismiss Fate's, I'm going to count that as a point against you, and I would hope that everyone else would be smart enough to do the same.

Exactly what fear-mongering is Fate doing. POINT TO IT AND QUOTE IT! Fear-mongering is saying crap like “you are going to lose the game for Town”. I don’t see any of that coming from Fate.

I’m not sure why your ‘point against me’ is supposed to inspire fear. You’ve been tunnelling this slot like a mole. Why would you stop now?

Can you please imbue VV again? I've forgiven him for blindly following Fate for now. But he needs to make sure that the practically confirmed townies remain alive.

Blindly following Fate? VV’s been fucking voting for him before he stated it was a 'clever' gambit to draw out a Mason counter-claim.

Why are you not considering that VV isn’t just pulling some “Heheh I’m gonna claim BP Bodyguard who can protect 3 players with my SUPERZ” as a scum bulletproof? So far we have zero confirmation that he actually can protect people? Not to mention that a Doc and Bulletproof Bodyguard don’t make much sense together as Town.

FTFU.

This is what I'm talking about with MS being able to pretty much say anything and consequently go any way *they* want with it.

Fucking scum.

So bolding the part where I say I wanted to keep my game relevant content separate somehow reduces the fact you OUTRIGHT LIED IN THE POST I RESPONDED TO.

It’s funny that you think you can get away with lie after lie after misrep.

Fucking dumb-ass scum.

[MasterSpy]

Why are you all a flutter about "SpyreX isn't a Nazgul!" when you're a damn ring?

To further elaborate on this for curiousity I also looked up Singer’s claim of Annatar – which is a form Sauron himself uses to fool the elves long before the LOTR series.

So Singer basically claimed Sauron.

--

I have to agree with this. Seriously, you had a guilty AND hohum was acting suspicious as fuck and you didn't vote for him right out of the gate? I mean, I know you like to waffle, but this is kinda beyond that.

Correction – Mina is the Queen of Waffle Hut. As soon as I got on I rectified that issue. I personally think Mina needs a Mafiascum Life Coach who can teach her a little self-confidence.

Also, MasterSpy and SpyreX's role sound a bit mutually exclusive. Two roles that hunt for people in an already all-PR game? That's pretty strong. The fact that this "Gandalf" figure hasn't been outed already makes me extra skeptical of his existence.

Agreed. Along those lines what are your thoughts on the Gandalf / VV dichotomy and the Mason / Neighborizor / your ability dynamic?

I did message you, but the quote wasn't from Shakespeare … brush up on your LotR trivial.

Not likely for me to be revisiting them. I barely have time to read all the new books on my interest list.

--

Yeah, because everyone hasn't been speculating that? This has been a topic of discussion for some time.

Yes but you are using subjective judgements on your side to ‘bolster’ your reads but dismissing subjective judgements that don’t support your world-view (ie our slot’s thoughts regarding Fate not being Mafia after N1). I’m big on consistency and am not seeing it in your approach.

Never said he was confirmed

Um What?????

I’ll bold your own quote for you –

Isn't it very convenient that the two people who have been investigated are the known Vig (who decapitated Katy, obviously with a sword) and

the confirmed Doctor?

I don’t think you could have stated it any more clearly. The rest of your response veers off to discussion Spyrex when you originally were attacking my Night actions. What in the hell does Spyrex have to do with my actions being ‘convienant’?

SO apparently...the comment about only having characters that lived in the game was a joke, and it doesn't appear in the game rules, only in the "queue thingy."

If you are willing to accept that Spyrex is telling the truth then your attack regarding Elves being Bow users as the primary Mafia is pretty out the window given the large number of Town players in the first game (Aragorn, Theodred, etc) who were Sword wielders.

Again you seem to just be pulling facts to shape your argument as opposed to having a valid argument and being willing to argue it’s merits.

[MasterSpy]

@ MS: I thought you meant Gandalf the CHARACTER not Gandalf the PLAYER. He's pretty much confirmed at this point, isn't he? Quadz saw him protecting Fate, and he's claimed, and furthermore, your claimed action said he didn't have a sword, so those three things together seem to support that he is being honest, unless proven-Town Quadz was lying or you are.

You are using confirmed very loosely compared to my context. I think confirmed as in Mod confirmed which only Fate is at this juncture via the Mason claim. Certainly AGM looks Town via Dayplay.

Yes, he didn’t have a Sword. Haven’t you been going on and on about how Bows are more likely to be used? I don’t think there is much chance of Gandalf being a Godfather based on his ‘wacky play’ so I’m pretty certain he’s the Town member of the claimed Protection roles.

My comment on Elves was made because obviously there is an elf shooter in the game. Since Plum was a human, then I am thinking that the third mafia could very well be Gandalf, given SpyreX's claim (which, like I said, is either odd town or cheeky scum).

Not to be to mean but BULLSHIT.

1. Your original comments were to undermine the possibility of a Swordsmith since there Bows were much more likely weapons for the Mafia.
2. Now you are backtracking and trying to say you that your undermining comments were more general speculation that was useless.
3. For the record Gandalf wields a Sword.

[MasterSpy]

Dodge, dodge and dodge some more.

You can keep repeating what you are saying. You continue to not address the inconsistencies in your stances and the points I've made about undermining. Not Pro-Town in the least.

[MasterSpy]

You keep twisting what I'm saying.

Your point is that I'm undermining the idea that the mafia is a bunch of sword-wielders, when we know at least one of them isn't, and based on SpyreX's discussion of Gandalf, I'm guessing the other remaining scum is in fact Gandalf. I haven't been inconsistent about this at all. I think your claim is bogus, and therefore I am pointing out the evidence that proves to me that you are making a fake claim.

1. You are trying to pass off as 'evidence' your speculation.
2. In the speculation that you are doing you ignore the elements that don't fit your argument (yes, Gandalf has a Sword but he's more known for his Staff so you're lying).
3. You are leaning strongly on Spyrex's Gandalf claim to bolster your speculation when you list him as one of your top suspects. So is it correct to assume that you think he as scum is going to tell the truth about his abillities in a way that doesn't suit his Wincon (as you state he and I are Teammates)?

You've past the point of tunnelling and are now moving into full on Deep Oil Well digging ...

[MasterSpy]

Seveis in a corner.

Give her death

Have you decided what your opinion on Imbueing is if VV isn’t going to pledge loyalty to your plan. We probably need to get the Imbue hammered away before we hang someone (and if that someone could be Singer it would be great!).

--

YOU REALIZE SHE CAN ONLY BE SCUM IF VV IS TOO, RIGHT? SO WE LYNCH VV AND GIVE THE RING TO CONFIRMED TOWN

IF SEVEI STARTS TALKING TO US SHES TOWN

So the possibility she’s a scum neighborizor using the Ring as a cover story hasn’t occurred to you at all?

--

And yes, I'm doing some speculating, but I'm drawing on what people are doing and saying and trying to put the pieces together. IF ANYTHING speculating is getting people to talk more and FINALLY this day has moved passed the "I KNO U R BUT WHAT AM I" crap that dominated the first part of it. As to your second point, I remember Gandalf almost exclusively using his staff, and the wizard's staff is almost synonymous with his power in most stories; I would guess if the Gandalf character truly is in the game and submits a kill then his kill flavor would be related to magic, not steel.

Ok, I get it. Passing speculation that may or may not be close to reality is excusable as long as you feel it moves conversation in the right direction.

Once again I’m not really interested in your speculation as it clearly isn’t evidence by any stretch.

--

@Singer

– Once again I see now that I respond to your little ‘case’ you have nothing to say about it and just let things float away hoping they will be forgotten.

Oh hey, scum said something about me.

For the record, I never claimed to respond to your "mini case" on me. I said I forgot about it. Difference.
I'm working on a response as we speak.

Rich. Singer you are either just bad scum or one of the ‘elite’ along with players like Furc and Chesskid.

You raged against me not responding immediately to your ‘case’. You outright lied about what I said and tried to infer I was scum because “Discussion is Pro-Town” for not responding immediately.

Yet you let a case go for TWO FUCKING DAYS and are acting like it’s no big deal. You ‘forgot’ it. Sure.

Also, MasterSpy, isn't Sauron, like, the ruler of Mordor or something?

You mean Sauron who is disembodied and makes no physical appearance in the Trilogy directly? Who certainly doesn’t appear in the form of Annatan or whatever you claimed. Just want to be clear for those who are up in arms about Nazgul versus Non-Nazgul claims.

ALSO, IF SEVEI IS SCUM THEN SHE HAS THE ABILITY TO TALK TO ANY TOWN PLAYER THAT GETS THE RING. FATE YOU'RE MAKING ME WANT TO TAKE DRUGS WUT IS THIS SHIT.

Are you sure you haven’t already been hitting the drugs hard? Because a Neighborizor isn’t that big a stretch if you have any clue what Mafia games are about.

[MasterSpy]

So this is how we are going to play it ... just listing who to lynch and not responding to posting?

Hey Singer what happened to that response you were working on again?

Who I will lynch today? -

SingerSinger, VV, Sevei or Spyrex.

Imbue: AGM

until a decision is made otherwise.

[MasterSpy]

Working 14 hour days and less than 4 hours a sleep a night has wiped me out.

I'll respond to Sevei's further adventures into double-standards and Singer's latest bout of direct lying (I'll show you exactly where you pushed, it's sad you make these accusations without expecting a response) and pointless rhetoric when I have some rest.

I'm not imbuing VV because he's most likely scum who faked a Bulletproof Bodyguard claim to cover his actually Godfather Bulletproof status. You say my claim doesn't make sense but having a Town Doctor and Town Bulletproof Bodyguard makes absolutely none. Yet like every other thing that doesn't fit your bout of scummy tunneling you ignore common sense Singer.

Congratulations you've graduated to Full VI status.

Since Fate will not sign off your rope I'll begrudginly support his wagon.

UNVOTE: Singer
VOTE: Sevei

[MasterSpy]

Three rather lenghty posts coming tonight addressing VV, Sevei and Singer.

Unimbue AGM
Imbue Gandalf

I'm on board with the plan.

I will be scanning either VV or Singer or Spyrex.

[MasterSpy]

Yeah, when I said posts later pretend that was tomorrow morning.

I choose actually getting some sleep for one night.

[MasterSpy]

You know what … fuck it. None of the three of you get a long detailed response.

1. You ignore them.
2. All you do is throw down rhetoric.

I’m not wasting my time trying to convince scum or VIs about who is scum.

The scum lies in the following group – Singer, VV, Sevei and Spyrex. Take it to the bank.

Signer’s play has been scummy. The ‘Look I’m an inventor’ doesn’t dissuade me one bit since I can dig up and number of Scum inventors.

VV’s claimed a strong protective role (but wait, suddenly today it’s altering ever so slightly) which is in direct conflict with Gandalf’s claim. Plus his play has ranged from lurktastic to scummy.

Sevei’s play has been bad and reserved. Only today when pressed has she made any specific attempt to ‘scum-hunt’. Furthermore her Plum suspicion has all the earmarks of bussing. Add in the whole “Teehee, Mason could be scum” element.

Spyrex’s claim is horrible.

--

The person ssaying the posts were coming wasnt in italics...
WHAT TRICKERY IS THIS?

That’s the result of exhausted MoI posting while feeding the dogs, making dinner, signing off on homework and 50 other things I have to do after my 14 hours work day. Doh.

--

No. She's the PRECIOUS IN THE QT

AS IN SHE SIGNS IN AS THE PRECIOUS

AS IN INSTEAD OF SEVEI

IT SAYS THE PRECIOUS

NO WAY THE MOD WOULD JUST LET HER DO THAT

Um whut? This is Moonbeams. Signing in as the Precious means jack crap. The Mod can’t control that and I further expect he would not try to. You played in LOTR Gandalf with the Palantir QTs where people disguised their identity.

The only way the QT process confirms Sevei is if the QT says “One Ring and [INSERT PLAYERNAME]” in the title

.

--

But whatever –

UNVOTE: Singer
VOTE: Spyrex

I’ll operate as if Fate’s plan is still in effect.

[MasterSpy]

Shit. I just realized that I never reimbued myself. Tell me that Spy didn't just hammer.

Imbue: gandalf5166

No, Spyrex should have 4 votes - Singer, Fate, Gandalf and MasterSpy.

[MasterSpy]

@Andy – I’ll be V/LA from today til Monday for my usual family weekend duties.

--

@Singer at 1347

– I’m glad you don’t even pretend to actually scum-hunt and are happy to just post fluff. What happened to that defense you’ve been talking about for days now? Yeah, it’s disappeared into the aether. I understand you aren’t responding because you don’t really have any sort of adequate defense for your scummy play.

That reminds me –

So long as you go after MasterSpy, who literally said he won't respond to me because "I'm scum" (hint,

discussion is pro-town, refusing to participate is refusing to incriminate yourself

)

The ABSOLUTE FUCKING IRONY!!!! Singer refuses to respond to anything I write because ‘I’m scum’. I’ve bolded the portion where you again are a complete hypocrite.

If you are scum I understand Singer. I will not hold your scummy and stupid play against you in the future. If you are Town I'll simply throw you in my VI pile.

MS has apparently checked himself out of scum-hunting and has moved on to bussing. So, whatever. He's becoming useless now. Point that out to Fate. He has no excuse now.

I love this on so MANY FUCKING LEVELS.

1. Singer indicates I was scum-hunting when I was questioning and going after herself, Sevei and VV implicitly when she states I’ve “checked himself out”. She’s acknowledging I’m actually Town.
2. More fucking rhetoric. Look at your ISO pages 4 to 6 Singer. That’s the definition of useless fluffing and rhetoric.
3. How can I be scum-hunting (a Town only activity) and bussing ( a Scum only activity) at the same time? Hmmm?

[MasterSpy]

First things first – surprisingly we were not role-blocked last night. Our Sword scan on SingerSinger returned with ‘No Sword’. That combined with Spyrex’s Legolas flip and the kill flavor means that despite the horribly bad play Singer is Town. Just bad Town.

Imbue AGM

VOTE: VV

Despite the mind-numbing “DERP DERP DERP” tunnelling going on by Singer, Sevei and VV it makes zero sense from any sort of logical standpoint for him to not be scum.

Let’s examine the known set-up –

TOWN –

Mason * 2 (Mod confirmed after death of first Mason)
Vig
Vouyer
Doctor

SCUM –

Tracker
Reporter (who was apparently investigation proof)

Remaining claims –

Bulletproof Bodyguard
Limited Neighborizor
Swordsmith
Inventor
Message sender with limited ‘Resurrection’ ability

There is no way you are shoe-horning another Town protective role into that set-up with any sort of logic. A bulletproof role does make a ton of sense as a Scum role given there was a (incompetent) Town Vig. Unless of course you want to take a stab and say Andrius is totally incompetent at building a set-up.

Oh and here’s a shout out to Sevei – way to completely be wrong about kill flavor that you argued so heavily about.

--

And why lynch Sevei after VV flips town? In my opinion (and in a couple others, I might add), it was either VV/Sevei, or the Spys. Well...one Spy flipped, and now we get the other.

Classic false dilemma. It must be either / or. With again no reasons why. Nice flip-flop on VV and Sevei being possible scum today when yesterday you screamed like a child who got no dessert about them being 100% Town.

Why wouldn't I? The only claim I don't believe is MasterSpy's.

Of course you don’t because you the resident VI this game. Of course two strong protective roles (Doctor and Bulletproof Bodyguard) exist but an investigative role doesn’t.

I’d ask you to articulate logical reasons why but that’s beyond you.

Let me ask you – why are you so enamored of VV’s claim of role when it has NEVER worked. N1 he claimed to protect Fate but Quadz confirmed he didn’t visit Fate. N2, despite being Ringed up to protect 3 players he suddenly chooses not to protect Quadz and he dies. N3 he once again fails to protect successfully.

His story has more holes than swiss cheese.

--

If it takes our lynch and once again the ‘lack of protection’ to convince Town that VV is the scum he obviously is so be it. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

[MasterSpy]

Why was he investigation proof?

He was Legolas. Who uses a Bow (which you went on and on about yesterday, BTW) as his main weapon. Thus as a Swordsmith I'm surmising I would not detect him. Not rocket science here ...

[MasterSpy]

1. I asked because it seems like a superfluous comment for you to make since you didn't investigate him.
2. Your comments about people's intelligence, including mine, are quite rude and uncalled for.
3. I was wrong. So?

1. It’s called logical deduction.
2. Whatever floats your personal boat.
3. You spent a large part of yesterday arguing how my role didn’t make sense based on your Gandalf is a Powerful WiZZZARD speculation. And based on the Legolas flip and the flavor of the scum kill last Night you were dead wrong. So I basically wanted to more or less rub it in your face.

--

Like I said, I'll forgive you in after-game after FATE FUCKING REALIZES THAT ME SEVEI AND VV ARE RIGHT. Also, who is supposed to have a sword again? So far, all I've seen are scum with arrows, town with swords.

Nice you to be so forgiving, but I don’t need your forgiveness since you’re wrong. But in post game I will hold that over your head, no doubt.

So far you’ve only seen scum with arrows? Derp, whut? Should I point you to FUCKING Boromir (not an archer but a Swordsman) and the flavor from last night?

I never thought they were scum. Fate with his herpderp logic made that to be the case. I never once called them scum, nor will I ever. Scream all you want about broken setup, but it is what it is. They're town, you're not.

Ok, so it’s just more rhetoric from you. Gotcha.

Like I said, I'm forgiving the insults coming from scum. If you recall, half of quadz's power was being a watcher, which is an investigative role. Just because we don't currently have it, doesn't mean it's not in the game. Also, there's that good ol' rhetoric you tried to use to paint me as scum. *sigh* How I've missed obv scum when I see it.

Ok this makes me laugh.

1. You accusing me of using rhetoric means I’m scummy, but all you’ve done is use that since Day 1. If I didn’t have an Town scan on you I’d be screaming to hang your self-contradicting ass.
2. I love this – quadz was a watcher so we have an investigative role, so yours makes no sense. DERP … two protective roles make perfect sense … HERP A DERP. When you decide which side of the argument you actually believe let me know.

Did you overlook the fact that he wasn't actually supposed to save anyone last night? Everything was a ploy to keep Fate around because he's a fucking selfish bastard.

No, I didn’t overlook the plan yesterday. Why are you overlooking the fact that his claim has NEVER, EVER come close to being confirmed. Here’s a rundown of VV’s play

1. Night 1 – I protected Fate … oops I was blocked.
2. Night 2 - I conveniently protected everyone but the claimed Watcher who threw doubt on my claim.
3. Night 3 – Sure I’ll protect Fate since that’s the plan. I didn’t protect successfully? What a shame…

Oh! Oh!
Can we please lynch scum now?^^^

Yes, we can lynch VV anytime if you are so inclined.

[MasterSpy]

This is Mina posting quickly from my phone at the bus stop. VV, on the off-chance you're not scum but just forgot how D2 went down:

hohum claimed vig BEFORE I posted. I found it kind of eerie at the time that just as I'd thought we nailed him, he claimed the one role that might have saved him. But we'd even theorized there might be a vigilante in the set-up when we'd got our role to act as a miller to our power. Furthermore, the flavour of the kill he'd claimed (beheading) was something that made sense with a sword. Of course I'd have rode his ass otherwise!

My "I think Magna will kill me for this" comment was because I knew he'd be annoyed that I wasn't voting our "guilty." But our investigation told us exactly what hohum's claim told everyone: he was vig or scum. In other words, a load of nothing. That's why I'd wanted to wait one more night to see if there was a second kill (which would confirm him). And in retrospect, that would have been the right move. I'm tired of getting heat for "waffling" from both my other head and from players for it.

Also, what are you talking about, we should have investigated VV, who was one of our suspects? Our vote was on singersigner for most of D3! Her inventor power didn't clear her, particularly since granting a townie a roleblock is something scum under suspicion might do for town cred. A roleblock can potentially harm town if given to someone with incorrect reads.

At first glance, Fate's plan looks good, although I'll check it over when I get home. At this point, I'd love to eat a NK instead of a lynch if possible.

[MasterSpy]

Oh my God.

This game is pissing me off so much.

For what it's worth, I agree with this:

2. Your comments about people's intelligence, including mine, are quite rude and uncalled for.

There have been words in the QT. I'm no saint either, but TBH, I've thought my other head has been unnecessarily snarky at times. And I wonder if, in singersigner's case at least, her fighting a plan that guarantees the town's win is simply because my other head's rhetoric antagonized her.

That said, I can sympathize with MoI's frustration.

I'm not scum. Our play hasn't been perfect, and we're in the suspect pool by PoE, but there is no reason for anyone--even someone who has us as his top suspect--to be soooo convinced MS is scum that they refuse to wait one more day to lynch them. Particularly when VV's and gandalf's roles are mutually incompatible.

Even when I show the problems in arguments against my slot (like "MS didn't vote hohum who'd just claimed to have a sword" or "MS shouldn't have investigated ss their top suspect"), people ignore our defences.

If I were 100% confident that VV was scum and everyone else was town--and if I extracted promises from everyone to lynch VV tomorrow--I'd roll over and die. But I still have doubts. I've been paranoid of Sevei all game, and her "four scum" theory and using SpyreX's WIFOM as an attempt to support her survival are weak. And I don't like that AGM didn't use a roleblock that would confirm someone as town, and I've always been suspicious of his claim that he can vote the day after he died (in a stacked town like this, Andrius gave someone the ability to push LYLO back another day?).

So therefore, any plan that covers all our bases is a good one. Look at DEFCON 2.0 (in which I was scum). After the second-to-last scumflip, the town devised a plan by which everyone except for the confirmed was nuked. (And I ended up giving myself away with my reaction to it.) From personal experience, these kinds of plans are

terrifying

to scum, because there's no wiggle room.

Again, if I'm scum,

I have already lost

. I'm wasting my time by posting in this game right now. You get credit for a win or for a loss, not on what day scum is lynched. You can just quicklynch me if VV dies tonight. I have claimed a role that dramatically helps the town, but that makes it impossible for me to win as scum.

In fact, Legolas not flipping ANY form of Godfather, hohum NOT flipping ANY form of miller means that MS is a lying piece of crap.

VV, link right now to any game you've ever been in with a gunsmith or similar role. Prove that you're not a liar.

Because this is a huge, HUUUUUUGE mistake.

----
singer, weren't you the one who wanted to lynch VasudeVa on D2? Just out of curiosity, what changed your read on him to the point you were willing to gamble the game on our being scum in the first place?

If there are four scum, we have to be missing something. You said you were accounting for me being the balance breaker,but I'm not Go back and look at your plans, and put the following pairs in: MS/AGM; MS/VV; AGM/VV. Does your plan still work if you lynch town today?

I know town is stacked, but 4-8 is a terrible, terrible set-up.

It's obviously not AGM/VV because AGM hasn't hammered me. (And you're the one who thinks I'm scum, so why do you think AGM/VV is an option?) And do you really think a VV/MS makes any sense whatsoever given VV's reluctance to vote you?

-------------------------
Before I move my vote to Sevei, I just want to check through Fate's plan (I'd started last night, but got distracted by [REDACTED]) to see if there are any logic holes. But it seems airtight, particularly considering the BP vest, AGM's resurrection ability, and the roleblock.

By the way...um, was there a reason everyone imbued VV without even asking singersigner--aka,

confirmed town

--what her super was? Or did I miss a claim somewhere?

[MasterSpy]

Unimbue
Imbue VV
Unvote
Vote: Sevei

Having had a chance to really look at the plan after catching up in [REDACTED] I don't see any holes.

Fate's Path to Victory is good to go.

@MOD - Can you clean up that last post. I fucking hate hydras ...

[MasterSpy]

I WONDER IF MASTERSPY HAS A GUILTY ON YOU VV?

$10 SAYS HE DOESSSSSSSSS

What?

Merciful me, Fate! Good heavens, whatever could have given you such a horrible idea?

My investigation last night was Fate, obviously, because I wanted to make sure he was telling the truth about his mason claim. And he didn't have a sword. Gosh darn it. I blame Magna for that one. *shrugs*

[MasterSpy]

Just kidding.





Game.



Set.


MATCH.

VOTE: VasudeVa

[MasterSpy]

Let it be know that Mina has banned me from posting anything of consequence because I was not nice to Sevei and Singer.

Bah I say ...

My only comment will be that as soon as VVscum is dead and the game ends I will be posting his "I don't do this as Town" slip in the MD "Funniest Scum-slips" thread.

[MasterSpy]

Oh, man. I'm literally jumping up and down right now.

That was the greatest post ever, Mina. I had already RAAAAAAAAAAAGED into the textbox before I saw your ninja.

Vote: VV

Comeon, Fate. We can win right now.

You know, that was supposed to be my post for when I revealed as the tracker in

A Clash of Kings

Mafia, after the VT covering for me would get nightkill and I'd track the obv-last Greyjoy to the NK. I'd been planning the most dramatic way to milk it for days. But I blew that game. :/

Better late than never.

And no, I'm not scum, but it doesn't matter, anyway.

[MasterSpy]

What. The. Fuck?

Um...

Vote: No-lynch

[MasterSpy]

So I had this game on automatic tab-refresh, terrified that Fate and Ghost-AlmasterGM would quicklynch, all for nothing?

Oh, well, can't complain.

What happened was simple. AlmasterGM hammered, and submitted his RB action nearly ten minutes after the hammer- during which time MasterSpy submitted his action blocking AlmasterGM. MasterSpy killed AGM N5, leaving only two players alive D6; while there were 3 votes, there were only two bodies, leaving the physical count at 2. 1:1, scum win.

Wait. I thought we got in first because night actions only counted AFTER the lynch scene was posted, not after the hammer. We'd checked with Andrius in the scum QT beforehand on the earliest we could send in a RB, because we'd been thinking ahead to endgame ever since Fate first suggested his

winmode

losemode.exe.

Um...

...I still have no clue how we won this game. No, seriously. How the fuck did we win it?