268: Bugsy Malone Mafia - Game over. Mod learns lesson
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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I unvoted you because of your "Correction: 1 kicked the buckt, so it is now 6 to lynch" comment.Couldbe a clever scum ploy to fake forgetting one's dead...but you're not coming off as someone who's weighing his words.
I voted Pariah based on a quick re-read. In his three posts (excluding the pre-game one) it looks like he's encouraging suspicion broadly without committing to a favorite...as though he'll be ready to join any bandwagon without being the leader (not the first vote)ora follower (already expressed suspicion).
Enough for a vote.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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I didn't say it doesn't lookAdele wrote:
Really? I agree he could post more, but what he has said looks reasonable to me.MeMe wrote:I voted Pariah based on a quick re-read. In his three posts (excluding the pre-game one) it looks like he's encouraging suspicion broadly without committing to a favorite...as though he'll be ready to join any bandwagon without being the leader (not the first vote) or a follower (already expressed suspicion).
Enough for a vote.reasonable. I said it looks...well read my quote. And, as I said, it's enough for a vote.
I do find your decision to provide a counter-point on Pariah's behalf interesting, Adele -- especially since you'd like him to post more. You're voting Tamuz on little -- "not incredibly scummy" (your words) but seem to have a problem with me doing the same.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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I explained my vote for him and it has nothing to do with not posting enough, which is a point YOU raised against him, not me.Adele wrote:First, I like to consider stuff carefully and look at both sides of an issue. I still don't fully understand why you're voting Pariah, to tell the truth. Is it for not posting enough (seems an overreaction) or for what he posted (I think his posts weren't amazing, but raised valid points)?
Adele, your full quote is there for everyone to see -- but it was the three words that were pertinent to my point. You called it "not incredibly scummy" which is, in my opinion, the same as saying your points aren't strong, i.e.: voting on little.Adele wrote:And I'm not voting "Tamuz on little" and that would've been clear to anyone if, instead of just quoting three words of mine, you'd quoted the full line:Adele actually wrote:And so I think you're the most suspicious guy on the block. Not incredibly scummy, but sufficiently for me to vote.
And this is pretty over-the-top. I didn't say you were sure of Tamuz having a scum role -- nor have I said that I'm sure of Pariah having a scum role. My point is that I explained why I think Pariah's a decent place for a vote right now -- which isAdele wrote:I voted for Tamuz because I thought at the time that his behaviour warranted it. When I said "not incredibly scummy"in context, it shoud've been clear that I meant I wsn't claiming certainty of his having a scum role - not that the vote was for nothing.exactlywhat you did with Tamuz. Do you see how what we've done is the same but you're defending your actions while attacking mine?
Please explain to me how on earth my post was an "attack" and how it "went too far." And, if you can do that, you'll have to explain how your post voting Tamuz is different.Adele wrote:If I think an attack goes too far, I’ll defend someone.
Adele, again, it is incredibly strong language to call my vote post an "attack."Adele wrote:This isn’t the first time I’ve pushed for a more in-depth explanation of an attack-type post, even in this game.
Here it is again.Adele wrote:There are any number of reasons why you’ve not articulated the reasons you voted Pariah sufficiently for me to “get” them:
1) I’m being dim
2) you’re inarticulate
3) you think it’s self-evident
4) the reasons are shakier than you think
5)you’re scum trying to bandwagon an innocent.
Further discussion should solve any but "5", so obviously I want further discussion.
That's all I said. I have no idea how you can't "get" it. Or why you think it's not enough for a Day one first vote on a player.MeMe wrote:I voted Pariah based on a quick re-read. In his three posts (excluding the pre-game one) it looks like he's encouraging suspicion broadly without committing to a favorite...as though he'll be ready to join any bandwagon without being the leader (not the first vote) or a follower (already expressed suspicion).
Enough for a vote.Orwhy you're overly concerned about it in the first place. I think your attention to this has gotten onlymoreinteresting.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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Adele -- really. It's usually best to let the person being voted question the vote OR wait to see who seems worried about it if no explanation is offered.
But, regardless, this oneshouldbe obvious to anyone with any research ability whatsoever, so I'll just go ahead and say why.
1) She said she didn't have access and has now told every other thread in which she posted limited access that she's back EXCEPT for this one.
2) Before she left, she made it sound as though she wanted to vote Pariah but wasn't doing so only because she wouldn't have access
3) She now has access but hasn't returned here ONLY -- and still isn't voting Pariah
4) That says, to me, that she doesn't want to vote Pariah for some reason. More likely that reason involves her being scum than him being scum, in my opinion.
Add the above to the fact that she's been uncharacteristically quiet, and she's my new favorite
And just because I was happy with a vote at one time doesn't mean I'm going to be happy with it forever -- surely you see how ridiculous it is to insinuate otherwise. I do read the thread and willingly change my mind based on what is/isn't there. Anyone who doesn't do that is just playing poorly.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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I just periodically click the "profile" button of people who haven't been posting to see if they're posting elsewhere. Once you get to the profile page you click "find all posts by..." and it has everything they've ever posted listed last-to-first.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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Obviously you must play your own game, Alexander -- but I've got a few questions for you:
1) What would you consider "major" evidence worthy of your vote (exclude cop investigation, please)?
2) Why did you say that it looked bad for her and cite "lynch all liars" only to back off of that once the examples were provided?
3) Do you think that considering behavior from past games is valid or not good practice when attempting to determine a player's current alignment?Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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You are mistaken.
Your history is one of attentiveness in every game, regardless of role. I don't think I've ever seen you use the "oops! forgot about this game!" excuseanywhereand I'm somewhat appeased to see you're not attempting to use it here.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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As I told Adele, "attacks" is a strong word.
When I'm voting, it will always be for the person I consider most likely to be scum at the time. Since that changes often (especially on day one), I will be changing votes often. Please recall that none of my votes contained any reason (aka "attack") to begin -- they were simply votes. I was pressed to defend the votes and, since I was able to do so, it seems you're now able to characterize those as attacks. Would you think it more reasonable to park a vote when one no longer thinks it's the best place for it?
Now let's look at your post.
Please tell me how you've arrived at the conclusion that none of the three are scum. I will point out that I, myself, am currently of the mind that neither broomhead or Pariah is the number-one suspect -- otherwise, I'd still be voting one of them. I'd also like to know whether you think that being "the most experienced player" in a game means "catches scum within first three vote tries." I'd really like to see some of your PBPA because, later on this post, you say that you're not saying that the none of the three are scum...but right here you kinda do. I'd like to see what you found and why you're waffling.Alexander wrote:I figured that if the most experienced player in the game fingered those 3, at least one will turn up scum. Alas, this was not meant to be.
I'm curious as to what you mean by "deliberate or not" here. If you think it was deliberate, that should mean that you think his mistake is a lie and, as you said earlier, "lynch all liars." Was that in your PBPA?Alexander wrote:The attack on broomhead: starts when he FOS's me for flimsy reasons (although it's the start of the game, so anything goes), ends when he makes a mistake (deliberate or not?) regarding how many people to lynch.
Alexander, as I said in my explanation for my vote on Pariah -- it was enough for a vote. Three others (you included) thought that I had a valid point.Alexander wrote:The attack on Pariah: starts as he makes 3 posts that "encourage broad suspicion", according to MeMe. However on a third re-read, I actually begin to see those posts are raising perfectly valid points AND refusing to sell his vote for cheap... which is exactly what I am trying to do.
It had everything to do with me changing my mind. Explained in full.Alexander wrote:The attack quells when a more suitable (?) target appears, in the shape of dial-up-Talitha. Or maybe it had something to do with not enough people joining the wagon.
Certainly did not accuse her of lying. I pointed out that she herself had said elsewhere that her connection had returned and that it seemed she was deliberately staying out of this thread only (proven correct) and that it seemed that it might be because she doesn't want to vote Pariah despite her expressing interest in doing so (proof pending).Alexander wrote:The attack on Talitha: accused T. of lying about her access.
This might be where we differ most strongly. On day one, everything's enough for a vote. I'll also just point out that though IAlexander wrote:Initially sounded convincing, but when I examined the evidence there was actually not much in it. Lich, Adele and Foolster also voiced opinions that it's mildly suspicious, but not enough for a vote.mightbe wrong about why she stayed away, the explanation you provided on her behalf ("she forgot") was definitely wrong according to Talitha herself.
When I change my mind, I will change my vote. Every post I make need not contain defense of prior actions. Even if I do wind up changing my vote -- that won't necessarily negate earlier observations. Don't assume that I no longer agree with myself just because I choose not to repeat myself. Case in point: I could easily go back to voting for Pariah later. He's just not my best guess at the moment.Alexander wrote:MeMe herself seems to have withdrawn the allegation. She's not attacking Talitha in her last post.
Again, the loaded use of "attacks."Alexander wrote:Now, I'm not saying of course those 3 aren't scum, but I think their chances are not higher than anyone elses. Which of course led me to think about the initiator of the attacks, MeMe.
None of the above. As I said, I'll be voting the person I think most worthy of a vote at any time. Nothing "semi-random" about any vote I make past my first one. They're not concrete, because it's day one -- but they're always my best guess.Alexander wrote:All of this put together leads me to believe that MeMe is attacking people whom she really doesn't believe to be scum. Is she doing so because she is scum herself and is trying to shove a wagon into motion, or is she just a townie probing at semi-random to see if she stirs up a hornet's nest?
Cool. You claim to be voting someone you suspect to see what happens. Wonder why I'm accused for doing the same...Alexander wrote:I'd like to check this, and the only way to do it is to stir up something myself. In other words, run something up the flagpole and see who will salute; rattle the cage and see who will ask for a banana... ok, enough with the metaphores already...Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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Which means that I'm credited with gathering about three times the information that you are currently, right?
I like to have a vote "out there" on day one -- I think thatmostexperienced players do, but you're welcome to check my other games if you question my truthfulness in this. When it takes six to lynch, the votes aren't as precious.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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Certainly doesn't freak me out, but it does make me change my mind once again about who should be voted.
unvote: Talitha
vote: Adele
You'd been riding me over nothing you hadn't done yourself -- backing off rather fast ("no longer desperate to have [me] explain") when a few others agreed with me. Last time you posted, it was to say you thought I was "okayish" -- not that you still had your eye on me or anything, but that you now believed that you needn't distrust me and that we simply disagree with one another "a lot." One person votes me (and has since backed off a tad since I responded well and corrected some of his case) and you hop on with "he didn't say anything I haven't thought." Basically, you hauled me up to the front of the class early without voting me...got no support...said "I think she's alright now"...and only put your vote where your mouth is (was...then wasn't...now is again, that is) once Alexander did it first.
Either your last post was bull or the current one is. Either way, I'll be surprised if someone more suspicious pops up today.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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I'd normally be against a mass role claim this early as scum usually start with more information than town and mass claim of any kind just gives them a bigger advantage.
But hey. This game is a special case. vIQleshasmade it clear that we shouldn't buy any "I've got a bad name but I'm really GOOD" gambits -- so what the heck. At best, we expose the flaws in a broken game and win it in record time. At worst, all of the names will sound innocent and we'll have to depend on our powers of deduction to figure out who to vote. Exactly like we're doing now.
So, I'm in favor of the name claim.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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Alexander --
1) It is the mod's right (and, I think, duty) to do their best to balance a game to make it fun for ALL of the players. I respect vIQles' attempt to do that. I do agree that it's his fault if it wasn't balanced in the first place and that it was ill-advised to a) post the "good in the movie=good in the game" publicly (he should have answered each confused question individually) and b) say that he was changing the rules due to "complaints."
2) To say that the scum "whined their way into a get out of jail free pass" is ridiculous. It's quite possible that, due to that research, they know full well that a mass claim makes it impossible for them to win and pointed that out to vIQles. Good on them, if that's what happened.
3) What would your opinion be of players who chose to quit if vIQles DIDN'T implement some sort of non-game-breaking policy? I daresay it'd be low. You might have believed that flavor games should be easier because of the flavor -- but it's a flaw in the game if they are.
4) Even with the "no mass claiming" rule -- vIQles has basically written us the loophole (the same one suggested by Foolster41): pressure each player in turn. So why are you quitting, anyway?
Full disclosure: as a moderator, I've tweaked a game midstream to make it more playable/fair for the SK, so I'm sympathetic to a moderator who wants to do the same with his game. You're upset that all your hard work might go to waste (though, as pointed out, it won't if we justpressureeveryone). Well, think how much MORE hard work vIQles did writing the game. His fix attempts are surely a way to stop his hard work from being flushed away in no time.
As for this:
...forgive my skepticism. But I can certainly see this little scenarioAlexander wrote:Since proposing such an obviously pro-town plan clearly labels me as town, I am sure my replacement would appreciate doc protection tonight.- you are scum who did research and realized that you and your scum buddies have the only "bad" names in the movie without safe claims
- you complained to him that when it comes to claiming, you guys are screwed
- he said that if mass claim looks like it's going to happen, he'll step in to stop it
- you forced the issue knowing that he was going to save you...but the WAY he did it (admitting it was due to "complaints" and then providing a loophole) still made it rather unwinnable for you
- you quit out of frustration and because it's still rather unlikely you'll win
Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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Right now we've got
For Claim
Pariah
Foolster41
broomhead
Adele
Tamuz
Against Claim
chaotic_diablo
Unclear
Fritzler
Maz Medias
stark
I'll add my name to the "unclear" pile and I'll explain what I mean.
I'm all for using everything at our disposal to win the game -- I rather think that's what every playershouldwant, even if it makes the game a little less fun. However, I'll add this little point: we should have one person claim and then discuss it (wait for counter-claims, weigh-in on the scumminess of the claim etc.). I don't like the idea of mafia being able to get information for free if it's unnecessary for us to give it to them. It might even be worth their while to sacrifice one of their own today for a full look at the names in the game.
Basically --vote: claim, though I think it's smartest if we consider stopping after each new reveal.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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I really don't think we should move on until we get the answer to the question: "does everyone else have an actual name."
So far, Adele, Pariah, stark and Tamuz have all said that they do. I do, too.
In my opinion, if no one else has a generic rather than proper name like Foolster, we should just lynch him rather than reveal more names/abilities. If no other "down and outs" show up, it doesn't make any sense for vIQles not to have just named the role "Babyface." Right?Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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Does no one agree with me that we should probablystopclaiming for the day? Or at least wait to make that decision until everyone's said whether or not they have a proper name?
Adele's last post brings up another good point in favor of lynching Foolster without tipping our hand further, in my opinion.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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Here're the facts:
--vIQles has said that if you're bad in the movie, you're bad in the game. No surprise alignments.
--vIQles said that a mass claim would swing things too far in favor of the town.
Unless he was being particularly crafty (which I seriously doubt), point two basically informed us that the scum have not been provided with "safe" claims.
So, barring anyone else claiming to have a non-proper name (and the only ones yet to say are Maz & Fritzler), Foolster's got to be lying. The only reason for making one pro-town role completely different from every other role in the game is to diminish the power of claiming -- it's basically a "you'll look like a liar when you claim" role. Since vIQles obviously didn't even consider mass claiming when he wrote the game, he also wouldn't have written a role to diminish the power of a mass claim.
Adele, I understand your feeling of it being unfair. But this is about beingsmart. I think it's clear that Foolster's likely to be scum. There's no reason to go forward with a plan that has served its purpose. As Tamuz said, let the scum stay as in the dark as possible.
vote: Foolster41, I think that's three on him.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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I think this is unbefreakin-lievable, myself.
--Foolster's got a suspect role name
--Foolster's claim doesn't match the Bugsy claim
I think that Foolster is lying through his teeth. I believe that his extended claim was designed simply to out Bugsy since it seemed likely he was going to die.
I don't understand why anyone would think it benefits scum more than town to STOP HANDING OUT INFORMATION. It seems entirely clear to me that Foolster is the best lynch for the day. Is anyone else going to 1) claim a non-name or 2) be denounced by another player?? And, if so, can't we just wait for tomorrow for that andkeep the scum in the dark for a little longer??
If EVERYONE else thinks we need to continue claiming, I'll go along with it -- but Adele's preference that everyone should claim in their next post or explain why they're not is extremely off. Our goal in a mass claim should be to get the scum to go as early as possible -- not just to tell them what NOT to claim by willingly going ahead of them. There'sno wayI'm just offering up my name without the others who've been asked to claim ahead of me going first.
If we're continuing with the mass claim, broomhead should have to go next. Adele picked Foolster who picked broomhead. But I renew my objection to continuing when it's clear we've got a prime candidate for the noose right in front of us.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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Erm...Adele...
Scum now know not to claim a non-name role and not to claim cop or mason. So, even if I were scum, I'd not screw up, right? The scum have plenty of information on how NOT to claim at this point. I think it very unlikely that they're going to mess up further since we didn't stop and wait after each claim -- something I requested BEFORE you jumped in and offered your claim.
Do you agree that it's unlikely that scum are going to say anything any "shakier" than Foolster already has? If youdoagree -- then please tell me how continuing the mass claim benefits town more than mafia (and saying "we're not following yesterday's plan isn't an explanation). If youdon'tagree -- well, you're insane.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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I didn't mean to be insulting. I am, however, having a really hard time understanding your arguments. They seem to be "stick with the plan because it's the plan" more than anything else.
I don't agree with you and you don't agree with me -- that's clear. I will point out that my opinion about HOW the claiming should be handled today was stated prior to any claims actually being made.
I'm not in the mood to go back and check but, off the top of my head, I think it's only Maz who agrees with you that it's best to keep claiming. Is that right? Could everyone (other than Adele, Maz, and myself whose opinions are clear) state whether they think we should stop or continue? And, Adele and Maz, are you willing to abide by the majority opinion on the matter? For the record, I'll go with the majority.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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Adele wrote:Why are you scared of a mass name-claim when it is so manifestly pro-town a manouvre, though?What makes you think I'm "scared" of a mass name-claim? Furthermore -- what do you not understand in all of my explanations where I explain WHY I think it benefits scum more than town at this point??
I also find it absolutely amazing that you're voting me while admitting that you believe Foolster likely to be scum.
Broomhead -- I note your request that I go next. So far, there are four people in favor of continuing (Adele, Maz, Pariah, and broom). That's not yet a majority, so I'll not yet name claim.
I think it's clear that Foolster is scum. I think Maz's earlier jump to explain Foolster's role looked like a partner covering for another. I think his eagerness to vote broomhead based on the "thug" in his name makes him even MORE suspect. Earlier Maz made a point of telling us that he knows the movie better than others (after the "down and out" tutorial) and that means that he shouldknowthat Snake Eyes is one of Sam's gang. Hell,Iknow that from researching the namejust nowand I've never seen the movie. I'd prefer that HE claim next (and I'm surprised broomhead's more interested in my name than Maz's, but whatever).Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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Four think we should continue, three think we should stop. One of those three is chaotic_diablo, who also hasn't yet claimed. So, if you're being fair, you'd also have to assume thathe's"trying to wriggle out" of claiming, right? And yet you don't mention him.
And, sorry to burst your bubble, Adele -- but five isn't a majority. If we end up five to five on this issue, I'll obviously keep mum since that'sAdele wrote:But she won't go ahead without another public vote for the mass name-claim.mypreference.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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Who? Me and chaotic? Then why are you STILL voting broomhead? Even after Adele (who you've been following around like a puppy) has assured us he's town?
Give me a break, people. Ask Maz to claim or admit you don't care about catching scum. After all, he's WILLING to claim right now...or so he's said every time he's echoed Adele.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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Um, no. I'm in favor of stopping the claims totally -- and you know that.
What I AM saying is that those of you who are still pushing for mass claims should at least be smart about it. You claiming first without being asked by anyone to do so was completely crazy, in my opinion. As I said before -- we should be trying to get scum to claim FIRST. Maz looks like scum to me. Town willingly jumping ahead of scum is silly -- and I'm far from silly. You know, earlier you said you'd not FOS based on those who don't want to claim because they might not consider it as fun. Apparently, however, if a player has a deeper reason than "not fun," that IS scummy? How do you figure? If I were scum, you're saying that I could've just said "wah! no fun!" and you'd have had to concede the point?
Now...
I was looking at this and thinking "it's beenAdele wrote:Again, why do you want to? Oh yeah, so the scum won't benefit from a mass name-claim. Even though it's been established that the town would benefit from one, not the scum.established"? No -- what the mod said was that a mass claim would unbalance the game YESTERDAY. So why would he allow onetoday?
I'm starting to wonder if we've got four scum. That would seem to fit.
Otherwise we've got a masonish group of three (Adele, broomhead, and another), the mod telling us that, basically, we'll be able to figure out everyone's aligment if we're allhonestabout our names (something only town can be counted on to be), the potential for another mason group of two (Bugsy & Blousey), a cop, and other power roles yet to be exposed.
How on earth could that be balanced on ANY day? Basically, if there are four scum. Then, a wrong lynch today loses it for us. If there are only three scum, then they never had a chance unless they're some super-duper powered up clan (or unless, as someone suggested earlier, they were given safe claims last night -- though Foolster's claim indicates otherwise).
We've got a scum. Let's lynch him.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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Why are YOU scared of anythingotherthan a mass claim?
And why aren't you talking at all about the fact that Maz is still choosing to vote a person you say is innocent? Go on the record now, because I'm intensely curious: do you think Maz or I is currently more scummy?Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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And to clarify -- scum not having mod-provided safe claims is not the same as there BEING no safe claims. There are more than 12 role names in the movie. Surely you've noticed that. Surely you've deduced that the more pro-town players who claim, the more likely it is that scum will be able to claim something unassigned.
What is so difficult about understanding this? Do you not agree that, if possible, town should do everything they can to claim as late as possible to force scum to GUESS at what's available and believable?Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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I don't "think" we're in a lynch or lose. I am considering the possibility based on a re-read of everything (something I didn't do yesterday).
If we have four scum, then it was a mistake to vote no-lynch on day one. I'm willing to admit I may have made a mistake. Are you?
Basically, it's not making much sense to me that what would be disallowed on day one because it would make it unfair would be ALLOWED on day two unless it wasno longerunfair. And if a mass claim is no longer unfair -- it's no longer definitely pro-town to do it willy-nilly (a point I made in the simul-post above your speedy claim even BEFORE I considered a four-scum set-up). Maybe vIQles is just a really bad mod...but I think that if he was worried about rescuing the game, he would have done it in a way that might actuallywork.
I'm willing to hear feedback on this -- but you seem to just be close-minded to everything I have to say. I'm just asking you to consider the possibility that continuing an unnecessary mass claim isn't necessarily the smartest thing for town to do. Also -- I just want to put this out there for you to think over, though I don't really expect you to answer it in the thread -- would you be more open to my ideas if youhadn'tyet claimed?
And, for the record, I obviously no longer think you're scum. I haven't since you claimed. It's incredibly frustrating to argue with a player I'm pretty sure is on my side -- it's a distraction the scum have got to be loving. Can you imagine how Foolster's feeling? I'm sure he's all "yay! I outed Bugsy and Adele is still pushing for MORE!" His lynch will not be in vain several times over. Basically, I believe we both want to secure a win for the town. If it's as easy as you contend, then whatharmdoes stopping do?Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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I agree that Seol's a good player, Adele -- but if that's the information you gave him, you misled him.
Go to him again and tell him that it wasn't "three claims in" but, rather, prior to the claimsbeginningthat it was suggested that we stop when we had what we needed to lynch correctly.
I believe that will make a world of difference.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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To be fair --
1) if you're innocent, Seol knows that and will, of course, interpret everything about the game with that knowledge -- which is something the rest of us can't do.
2) it's possible you're just telling everyone that Seol agrees with you because it's an easy way to beef up your argument. "Smart guy says I'm right!"
I don't necessary think that #2 is accurate -- but I do know that I'm innocent and I still think I'm right. Go and ask Seol what he thinks aboutmeas a player.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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No. I'm reading the game with the thoughts that you're innocent and the knowledge that I am. What I was saying is that the rest of us can't read with the "Adele perspective" like he can. He has to consider that the person making the case to change the "mass claim" into a "claim in turns which stops when we've nailed someone" (again -- prior to its start) could be scum. I can't do that.No onecan read from your point of view only because they know theirownrole and, obviously, know whether or not they can be trusted.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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And I will claim if six people say they want claims to continue -- but I'm thinking that if those who've yet to weigh-in on the subject actuallyreadmy posts and consider my points, they'll see that going forward isn't the best plan. We have a scum to lynch -- and, in my opinion, maz is probably ANOTHER scum and he's pro-claim as well. Two likely scum who want claims to continue...doesn't that tell you that continuing claims is exactly what the scumprefer?
And as for Maz unvoting when he was told, basically, that he HAD to and was provided with a handy excuse for his copying pleasure ("he probably just forgot")...well, that doesn't count for much.
And I think chaotic's been pretty clear, myself.
broomhead -- do you still want ME to go first if mass claiming's forced through?chaotic_diablo wrote:I'm not really interested in hearing anymore nameclaims. However, I'm also not ready to lynch foolster either. There's seems to be a slight illogical tweak in maz. I want to hear more of what he has to say.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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Foolster should be lynched. Period.
Think about it -- even if he WERE telling the truth, what on earth reason could he have for outing Bugsy as a vigilante? Theonlylogical explanation for what he did is that he's scum who knew he was caught and wanted to force Bugsy to come forward with a "nuh-uh!"
The only thing I can find out about Lena by researching it is that she's a singer at Fat Sam's and that the part's for a soprano.
And I think I can say with authority that at least one of these statements is true:
1) There are less than four scum
2) If there are four scum, the one(s) who claimed after me is/are idiotic.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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Well, as is my usual pattern, I've been PMing the mod throughout this game with comments/complaints/etc.
It isIwho questioned whether or not the game would be unbalanced with a mass claim on day one (and check vIQles post -- he states it wasn't scum who did so), though I was obviously unaware that 1) my concern was valid and 2) he'd stop the claims. It is because of his responses to my "what the heck were you THINKING" string of PMstodaythat I considered the possibility of there being a four-person scum group. I pointed out that mafia is, in a nutshell, a game of "informed minority vs. uninformed majority" and that, if the "good" name rolesaretruly good (as he said) then I've got to believe that Adele's being truthful. There are three informed majorities right there. By the same token, I have to believe that Pariah's being truthful. There's two more informed majorities right THERE (if Blousey had lived). That's incredibly unbalanced. vIQles basically told me that the game's more balanced than it seems.
As I said earlier, I believe that IF there's a four-person scum group, any scum who claimed after me is really silly. Basically, the "duh" move for scum would've been to counter-claim me and, with all of the pressure from seemingly-confirmed innocent Adele -- I'd have probably been the one lynched. Game over.
So. If the game is as truly balanced as vIQles insists it is today...that means that there are some liars in the "obvious" claims OR that the scum is powered up OR that they might have some kind of recruitment ability OR something else entirely. I'm thinking it's possible, even, that the scum were givenonesafe claim to share. That might make things more balanced on day two than day one. If anyone's got some idea of how this game canpossiblybe balanced other than what I've suggested -- please, pitch them.
I still think Foolster's the right lynchee today. There is nothing townish about 1) his claim being unnamed or 2) him outing a vig, in my opinion. I'd prefer NOT to go no-lynch today.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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But you DO know for a fact that someone brought the possibility of mass claim unbalancing the game to his attention AND that he has stated that it wasn't scum who did so. So, pardon me if I think you SHOULD consider me a confirmed innocent -- unless someone wants to counter-claim my claim to have been the complainant, that is.Adele wrote:Unverifiable references to private conversations with the mod? Pardon me if I don't suddenly consider you a confirmed innocent...
So, roll your eyes, but if no one counter-claims me -- I'm actually confirmed by the mod as not being scum and that means you must believe the REST of my statement. Get it?Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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