1116 - Literally Anything uPick

[AurorusVox]

Vote: Zang

to keep the combo going.

[AurorusVox]

Vote: Framm 18

Blurry pictures of wolves are not cool.

Framm has a disturbing lack of blurry wolf pictures...

I second this.

Also, I'm going to fourth the question even though it seems like he's trying to move us out of the RVS which is worth brownie points in my book.

So you see the town motivation behind it, but you want to ask what the motivation behind it is?
Do you think Leo @L-4 is goodthings atm?

Interested to see what Leo has to say about his wagon.

[AurorusVox]

^No comment on bandwagongate?

[AurorusVox]

@Everyone who still has their RVS on someone- What do you think of Ghost? Leo? Do you have any strong reads on anyone yet?

I don't see the Ghost hate, but then again I don't see the CES hate either. They both strike me as people engaging in a discussion that really boils down to theory - how much value you place on reasons with your votes vs bandwagonning for pressure. Since Leo hasn't reacted much to his wagon, I'm not sure the wagon is having its desired effect - CES, what do you make of that?

The fact that Leo has continued to deflect away from providing reasons is a little suspect but not enough for me to find him that scummy, especially considering he's provided evidence that he doesn't like reasoning with his votes. Leo > Ghost in scumminess by a little, but its so early on and some people have only posted once, so I don't really have any "strong" reads.

I'm happy with my RVS until Zang comes back and posts something else.

Zang's posts look good.

Unvote

The reason Plum gives for her vote is odd. As far as I can see, Zodiark's concern does have some legitimacy (and has since been answered afaict). Ghost spotted where the real concern should have lain - in the hypocrisy of accusing someone of throwing votes around too easily and then plumping a vote on Leo. Plum mentioned this in passing, but she moved on to a more theoretical reason about RVS-or-not to finally justify the vote. It feels a little off. /pokes Plum with a stick

Vote: Plum

[AurorusVox]

He's going to be hard to read if he doesn't back up his vote reasoning.

Here's a fun fact for you all. Ant has been posting in other games but not this one.

SC:

Do you think Leo is going to be harder to read than a lurker like AntB?

[AurorusVox]

Hey, AV. You're voting me because why? Hmmm. Do you have better thing to do with your vote than poke me with a stick, or . . . ?

Best place for my vote as your own vote was the most interesting thing I've seen. It got you to explain in a bit more detail so it had the desired effect. And it was placed (and still is placed) on you because you had a legitimate concern with the post - it's hypocrisy - but clothed your vote in something that was less easy to defend against - your pet peeve. It felt dishonest.

[AurorusVox]

Okay. Now that you've read my follow-up post . . . ?

I'm still suspicious because these reasons weren't mentioned in the vote post. They seem like they were generated more fully in response to the /poke, retroactively rather than because you necessarily believed them at the time. But the dayprotect, if it's legit, is a compelling reason to

unvote

for now, at least.

Debating where my vote belongs between AntB and SC. I'll give AntB a chance to provide some more content before I judge him. If he's been posting elsewhere, does that mean his bookmarks didn't really disappear? Eh...we'll see.

Vote: StrangerCoug

I think AntB makes more sense as a vote than Leo for the reasons you've provided. You say they're as bad as each other - so was it a 50:50 chance you'd vote for Leo over AntB, or was there another reason for it?

[AurorusVox]

Stranger, I was looking for the justification for your Leo vote over Ant, and you never gave it. My vote stays until you answer. I find it a little strange that you've skipped an Ant vote since unvoting Leo, but the PowerRoxx wagon looks good enough that I can forgive you that.

Powerroxx, if someone is your scummiest read, they should be worthy of a vote. Why are you worried about putting a vote down?

I thought Leo's post restriction was obvious enough. This is a LAuP, he could be a potato with arms for all we know. I highly doubt its indicative of alignment, and I also highly doubt it was done with an intent to further his factions cause (i.e. deliberately obscure our reads of him if he was scum). It's harder to judge him because of the PR, but I think we'll have to learn to get around it.

[AurorusVox]

Ah, I see that now. I read it before but didn't make the connection.

I thought you were originally voting Leo because he was hard to read? Or at the very least, his non-justification was facilitating him being hard to read. You also admitted that AntB was just as hard to read due to a lack of content. I understand that you're making a distinction, but I think their actions are closer than you would present them.

[AurorusVox]

Leo looks thoughtful, and makes an "expand"ing motion at the bolded. Leo counts out 1, 2, 3 sentences, then draws a "greater than or equals" sign.

I have no idea what this means ._."

The first seems like you're coaching. Why would you need to point out the case in the first place?

Do you think Zang was bussing with his vote? It's interesting that he's unvoted as the wagon gathers speed.

[AurorusVox]

Ooh - you want me to expand on it. I getcha. I think (b) is the bit specifically concerned with the bolded, but here's my entire line of thinking anyway:

(a.i) I don't think your Post Restriction would necessarily be something that you intentionally had in mind when you submitted your choice.
(a.ii) If this is the case we can't judge you based on the PR alone.

(b.i) I would argue that intentionally having such a post-restriction furthers a scum cause because it makes it harder for us to read you.
(b.ii) Since we picked our flavour before we knew our alignment, it makes me think you wouldn't have been able to manipulate getting a post restriction for scum purposes.
(b.iii) Even assuming that you

had

hoped for the post restriction, in this instance of not-obvious linkage between role flavour and alignment, I still cannot deduce anything from your PR that would indicate your alignment, because you could have just as easily ended up with a townie role.

(c.i) If you COULD guarantee that you would get both a post restriction and a scum aligned role, then this could be even less of a worry, since it means that your role flavour would indicate specifically that you are both silent

and

scum.
(c.ii) In this case its still your flavour and not your PR that will catch you out, so I won't really be deducing anything from your PR even here.

TL;dr - (a) I doubt you picked a role flavour that would obviously result in a post restriction; (b) even if you had, I doubt it was chosen for scummy reasons since it would have been chosen before you knew your alignment; (c) unless your role flavour would explicitly result in you being both silent and scum, in which case we will catch you out anyway.

...

That's a bit more than three sentences. You can't talk so I guess this is making up for it.

[AurorusVox]

EBWOP: "It" in that post refers to what you chose to send to VV.

[AurorusVox]

Powerrox93, who is your top scum read and why?

CES
All his focus earlier was on making others bandwagonin in the RVS.
And gives a bad explanation to a rushed dayprotect

Powerroxx, if someone is your scummiest read, they should be worthy of a vote. Why are you worried about putting a vote down?

Then it could drop down to "Vote XXX for making ONE bad post"

But votes =/= lynches. People have a chance to redeem themselves. Are you just going to wait for them to make more bad posts? Voting enables you to pursue your scumreads (i.e. scumhunt) and have pressure behind your actions when you do it.

Also, still no vote? You've got more reason than "one bad post" for finding CES scummy.

Vote: Powerrox93

(L-2)

[AurorusVox]

Actually Zodiark, you've just shown that Power's Leo scumread was based on more than just "one bad post" so I don't get why he's been using that as an excuse all this time.

[AurorusVox]

Do you think Zang was bussing with his vote? It's interesting that he's unvoted as the wagon gathers speed.

Of course I unvoted. It was a random vote, the wagon was gaining speed and I never thought that he was scummy.

Eh, I had wanted Ghostlin to answer this first. Just so you know, I'll respond to what you've said afterwards if you want. So, Ghosty, plz to answer thx.

[AurorusVox]

Do you think Zang was bussing?

[AurorusVox]

I'm asking because if you think both of them are scum(my) I assume you'd think Zang was bussing.

[AurorusVox]

In which case: Powerrox. How did Leo shift down from your top scumread? What changed between Post #77 and Post #149?

This is going to sound bad, but it is that I've missed some posts by CES in the beginning

In fact:

/claim bus driver

Still

no vote on CES? Tick.
Premature claim? Tick.
Happy with my vote? Tick.

[AurorusVox]

I see it all the time on EM. My thinking goes that scum feel under more pressure and so are likely to claim earlier, also for scum it can seem to be one of the only strategies left to get a wagon off of you. OTOH, I would expect town PRs to want to keep their particular power hidden for as long as possible in case they get roleblocked or killed because of it.

That said, I've only really known VIs to claim early on here, but I think that's because people are more cautious to claim in general. I still think it's scummy because of the above thinking.

[AurorusVox]

I've only ever seen scum bus drivers (they're all that's available on EM, and here I've only seen the role used once in Gorrad's FCM as a redirector)

Are town bus drivers otherwise common on MS?

Powerrox, why a hacker?

[AurorusVox]

For what reason? I'm not convinced by his claim, and I think he's scum. Him being at L-1 is fine by me.

[AurorusVox]

IMO, I doubt we have to worry about a quickhammer seeing as he's probably scum. Besides, CES makes a good point w/r/t the case in which he isn't (though now that it's been said, its potential has been neutralised to a degree).

I'd like to see peoples' reactions to him being at L-1. If I unvote, people will treat him as L-2. Not sure that's as useful.

[AurorusVox]

Leo looks at Chronopie and Aurorus with mild annoyance for leaving Powerrox at L-1 and making it risky to wait for more than a single post each of reactions from Stranger and Plum before someone hammered.

I logged off after saying why I didn't want to unvote. I'm back now, your trap is quite interesting, but I'll note that Powerrox is now at L-2 so my unvote isn't strictly necessary. Debating whether to follow this new information or not.

My problem is that SC could easily have been made to ask "what is it?" in response to Plum's "Can I ask you a question?" question. Plum's smiley fits better as scum with the messages et al considered (because she says she did it in direct response so it would). I would prefer to lynch Plum over SC, but CES dayprotected Plum.

Scum would (in general) either know who their buddies are and their abilities (which would include sending messages in the middle of the Day, nach) and have either Nighttalk or anytime talk anyway.

I echo CES here. Unless scum have daytalk or have had a confirmation-stage QT, you can't know for sure they'd have had a chance to discuss their abilities. I'm wondering if this is a slip wherein Plum reveals she knows scum's QT status.

She does make a good point about Chronopie though, if Plum/SC are town, then their reactions are honest, but probably confusing for Leo if he's town. I'm wondering if Chronopie is scum capitalising on a mistake.

I think Plum's flip will tell us the most out of her and SC, but unless CES can retract his dayprotect, it's no good. I'd still like to lynch Powerrox, because he's still scummy, but at this juncture, do we have to choose between {SC/Plum/Leo}, for maximum information sake?

[AurorusVox]

Unvote

for now. Leo's thinking in his latest post is pretty compelling.

Plum, you say your response was a gambit, playing along with the message to see what happened. But scum would know you had received their message by your smiley, and since they would know you weren't their partner, your gambit was impotent. What were you hoping to achieve?

Also: Plum, you said you thought you might have intercepted the message, or it may have been sent by accident. The first seems a leap of logic. As far as the second, and SC, you thought this too; did you not think it would be wise to alert the mod if you thought an error had occurred? I think its more likely that the flavour of one of the scum's roles could be interpreted as a messaging role, and that lubricated the falling into the trap.

@CES: Can you recall your dayprotect on Plum?

[AurorusVox]

In that case,

Vote: Plum

.

Leo, do you think that your "trap" caught them both equally?

[AurorusVox]

How reasonable do you think it is that this was, in your words, a 'mistake'? How is this confusing for Leo if he's Town over Townies who are Town and hearing about it now?

PlumScum/LeoTown >>> PlumTown/LeoTown* > PlumTown/LeoScum

*this would be the "mistake." I put it as more likely than LeoScum because the gambit strikes me as townish.

As for the potential for confusion: If you're town, LeoTown would know his intentions were pure, and so see nefarious subterfuge in your reactions, i.e. I don't blame him for thinking you're both scum. It's basically me saying that PlumTown does not mean LeoScum.

[AurorusVox]

Plum's claim is meh. Its a semi-useful role for checking claims are legit, but if roles and alignments are hard to match due to the nature of U-Pick, I don't know if scum would have occasion to lie anyway. An additional problem with it if she's scum is if she says "oh keep that person alive so I can check them" - as it seems she was preparing to do with Powerrox - which might let her (attempt to) get her scumbuddies off the hook if they get close to a lynch. Probably a bit paranoid but the claim doesn't give me reason to think she's town anyway, so.

@Ghostlin: I agree that Powerrox is probably a bit scummier than Plum (esp. with his rolefishing of CES), but Plum's lynch gives us more information, however WIFOMladen it may turn out to be.

RE: hammering/waiting - probably best to give Batt a certain amount of time (I'd say, a day?) to get his reads out before we lynch. We can gather some more reactions to the claim while we wait.

[AurorusVox]

Wait what

Chrono do you now think Plum is town? I.e. are you saying "son of lies and deception" makes you think she's town? :\

[AurorusVox]

Yeah Chrono is looking increasingly bad. But is he hopping off a buddy's wagon or hopping off a mislynch? :\

[AurorusVox]

Vat a ztrange day ziz iz, comrades.

Vote: Chronopie

... VOR ZA MUZALAAAAAAND!!!

Ze unvoting shenanigans ver zuspicious. Ze hammering az it vaz, vaz even more zo. I vant answeres, da.

[AurorusVox]

I vink you misunderzant ze zituation yezterdez, comrade. Because of Chrono's unvote, many good comrades ver zinkin to vote him inzted of Plum - and zo he uzed hiz power to get vrid of Sister Plum bevor ve could all move our votes. Zat iz how I see it. ALSO, there iz much VIFOM in your debate. But zis is vhy I ask for Chrono's ezplanation.

[AurorusVox]

"Auroroasaurusvox"
Zis is the best vay my name haz ever been zpelt, comrade. Da.

[AurorusVox]

I could still lynch comrade Poverrox, da. "I believe plum's claim" well duh she flipped tovn. Clutching at towncred much, comrade?

[AurorusVox]

Comrade Leo, are you ztill zuzpicious of Comrade Cougar today?

[AurorusVox]

I agree, comrade. Povveroxx should reveal his action ven he next comes back to ze zread. It's better for him to reveal, in case investigative roles got svitched and just received results, zan any roles zemselves to be outed to question vezer zey ver svitched or natch.

I've just vought, if vis vread iz now zet in ze USSR era of ZE MOTHERLAND, doesn't that mean voting is going to be ineffective today? *snigger*

[AurorusVox]

CES keeps vorgetting to zay "Comrade"! I zay he is a dirty capitalist pig!

[AurorusVox]

._." I don't zink he meant zat kind of hinting, comrade.

[AurorusVox]

I zink he means playing-ability, not role ability, comrade.

[AurorusVox]

Comrade Batt: zeeing as you're not getting any ansvers, and I vind Povverrox scummy, I will summarize for you if you vant.

[AurorusVox]

Comrade Leo, are you aware ze site has been dovn for the lazt fev days? I agree some people are not contributing but its hard to generate discussion vhen vaiting on other people to post, or not being able to even get online.

[AurorusVox]

Follow up post due to accidental submitting and burning my lunch...

I agree vith ze sentiment of vaiting vor Chrono's explanation under the threat of a lynch.
I vill add Batt to my list of zuzpects, he is being extremely cautious with his vote and I'm not sure what pro-town purpose that serves. Additional pressure on anyone is better than not voting while waiting to make the case...

I vould still like Povverrox to claim his svitched targets because it could potentially put misinformation in ze hands of investigative roles if he does not - especially if he is town and gets killed before he has had a chance to reveal. But I can modify that to "claim if he is going to get lynched" because I don't zink he's town so revealing his targets could just create unnecessary VIFOM at zis point.

[AurorusVox]

I couldn't get on on Tuesday, and yesterday was pretty inconsistent for me too.

[AurorusVox]

Hmm. So it's not one-shot. Zat does make it pretty OP in scum hands. I'm zinking it could potentially a zird party (solo win con) role...Unless ve're absolutely certain Comrade Chrono is town, I zink he'll need to be lynched at some point. Ve could do it today or maybe save it for another day if zere's an alternative attractive lynch (Comrade Povverrox springs to mind).

[AurorusVox]

Also, post restriction fail.

Ach.

Eh, pro-scum motivation could be not vanting to leave a voting trail...not vanting to drav attention to his case(s) zrough his votes...

Vhat in particular don't you trust about Chrono's powers, Comrade?

---

Chrono, can you un-use your ability? Or is it zat once you've used it during ze day, it must remain on for ze rest of ze day?

[AurorusVox]

ComradeBunny, I would hope zat ze modifier is relative to ze number of people left alive in ze game. Once ve have found if ze pover can be reversed, zen maybe ve can test it to see if it is relative or a stock number regardless of ze number of players left alive.

[AurorusVox]

DRUNKPOSTING

&re that post just now by LEO Do we have enough people to lkycnh COMRADE chrono if he used his powar/ ? I dont want him to use it if it mnakes him unlynchabel today altho if we do the ni wouldnt mind seeing it so that we could SEE HOW exactly teh power rworkds.

CRHINO >>> POWERROXX >>> BATTUOSAI lynch candidates for me today

[AurorusVox]

DRUNKPOSTING

&re that post just now by LEO Do we have enough people to lkycnh COMRADE chrono if he used his powar/ ? I dont want him to use it if it mnakes him unlynchabel today altho if we do the ni wouldnt mind seeing it so that we could SEE HOW exactly teh power rworkds.

CRHINO >>> POWERROXX >>> BATTUOSAI lynch candidates for me today

Leo looks skeptical at the idea that any mod would ever let it be impossible for a scum player to be lynched with 12 players alive, in a non-bastard game.

I meant, through the haze of drunkenness, if he used it, would there be enough people to

support

lynching him with the number of players left alive.

[AurorusVox]

Vote: Chrono

Since I forgot I unvoted until nov and since I found out he has multiple shots, zere's really no more reason for me to keep my vote off.

After reading zrough chronos's explaination of his role, zere is no way in hell zat zis is a scum role (zird party maybe, but I don't vant to vote chrono because of zat until ve have enough reasoning to support zat). Zerefore, i vill

Unvote

Vait. Had you not already read zrough Chrono's explanation ven you voted him ze first time, comrade?

[AurorusVox]

^then he unvoted him before the vote count.

[AurorusVox]

Comrade CES: Is zere a reason to go viz your suspicion of me?

RE: Chrono using his power, this is vhat I meant; zere is no longer enough people vho support his lynch today.

Zerefore,

Unvote; Vote: Poverrox93

[AurorusVox]

^In zis post, Batt demands Comrade CES explains (i.e. gives reasons) but von't give reasons himself.

Batt is a solid alternative lynch candidate to PR93.

[AurorusVox]

Comrade CES: Saying Povverrox is the easy target strikes hollov vhen he's done some pretty scummy zings yesterday. Ze basic premise of my Povveroxx scumread is zat he justified not voting for his top scumread by saying he had only read one bad post. But zen he pointed out a number of zings (i.e. more zan "one bad post") zat he found scummy. And zen still didn't vote. He vas ultra-cautious, even ven he had a case, and zereby directly contradicted his own explanation of vhy he vas not voting. Zis happened twice viz tvo different people, IIRC.

[AurorusVox]

Comrade CES: Saying Povverrox is the easy target strikes hollov vhen he's done some pretty scummy zings yesterday.

Ze basic premise of my Povveroxx scumread is zat he justified not voting for his top scumread by saying he had only read one bad post. But zen he pointed out a number of zings (i.e. more zan "one bad post") zat he found scummy. And zen still didn't vote.

He vas ultra-cautious, even ven he had a case, and zereby directly contradicted his own explanation of vhy he vas not voting. Zis happened twice viz tvo different people, IIRC.

Leo giggles at your basic premise but doesn't condemn the rest of your reasons.
Leo hopes that you can explain the scum motivation behind the basic premise.

Ah, a little confusion arises.

The whole post, or at least the first good chunk (bolded), is "the basic premise" (i.e. it's a summary of why I'm voting him). I think you think that I'm calling his "justification" scummy, but I'm not; that is the context, or background, against which his actions are scummy. He says he had only read one bad post - but points out more than to account for his suspicions, and still didn't vote. Etc etc.

---

Comrade Chronopie, if you vanted to prove your ability, vhy not use it on the active lynch?

Also, eizer ze mod is ignoring me or I have been given an extra vote, so;

UNVOTE: Poverrox
VOTE: Chronopie

Been said before, this is a wasted vote. More than this, though, I notice that Zodiark shifts the vote as soon as more pressure begins building up in the opposite direction (i.e. away from Chrono and against Poverrox). ALSO note that Zodiark says he thinks he has an extra vote, and then uses this thought to justify the new vote, as indicated by the "so" - and yet he unvotes anyway. There's a serious logical gap there.

---

@Leo: re Zang's Voting Record - it's laughable,

almost

too explicit to be scum trying to get away under the radar. Even combined with the V/LA, it's unsatisfactory, and I can happily join in the Zang pressure while we wait for his promised post. If anything is to be gleaned from it (and I will rustle the crumbs), I think it reflects badly on Poverrox. He unvotes as the pressure mounts on PR, and I remember questioning him on it at the time. If Zang flips scum I will quickly suspect that vote was distancing; he says it was an RVS, but I wonder why it was maintained so long? If Zang were scum and PR were town, he'd have had no reason to remove the vote.

Vote: Zang

[AurorusVox]

^EBVOP: Ugh, I was going to go zrough after previeving to Ruskie that up and vorgot, comrade mod. Please give forgiveness, da.

[AurorusVox]

Vould you care to put some pressure on to guarantee ve get ze promised huge post, Comrade Bunny?

[AurorusVox]

Zang replacing out means my pressure vote vill do no good.

Unvote

My lynch preferences: Poverrox93 > Batt > AntB

Vote: Poverrox

If ve are not lynching Povverrox, I vill happily shift to Batt or AntB, comrades.

[AurorusVox]

ALSO note that Zodiark says he thinks he has an extra vote, and then uses this thought to justify the new vote, as indicated by the "so" - and yet he unvotes anyway. There's a serious logical gap there.

Comrade Zodiark, please explain zis for me.

[AurorusVox]

AV looks confusedly at Leo and signals that he doesn't have a signature.

[AurorusVox]

^Are you Zodiark, comrade?

[AurorusVox]

>_<" AV pops the bubble of misunderstanding and smells the fresh air of cognition.

[AurorusVox]

No, I swear I'm not Zodiark comrade!

Interesting, because that's who the question was asked of.

^Because zis. I vas asking vhy you vere ansvering for someone else.

[AurorusVox]

My post #561 vas asking you vhy you answered a question

directly and explicitly

directed at Zodiark (and don't tell me

I

should have been clearer about vho it vas directed at - not least of all because it was Leo's question).
I have never zought you vere Zodiark. If anything,

you

zought you vere Zodiark. Paranoid scum.

Leo: Comrade Ghostlin has a point about you telling us PR voters that we don't have the majority ven you are on a short-stacked vagon. By zat token shouldn't you ask for ozers permission to make sure ze Zodiark vagon has ze necessary support?

I

can

see a Zodiark lynch being quite an interesting prospect, though FMPOV it'd be based solely on ze vote-post he made for Chrono, as I quoted earlier in ze zread. Vat is your reason for ze late shift? I considered adding him to my lynch list but vorried a last-minute vagon could be chaotic.

[AurorusVox]

I assume ze code is something Leo's ability allows him to do. PR, unless you think Leo is scum, you shouldn't be worried - unless you're the scum (which you are).

[AurorusVox]

I still think Leo is town so I'm happy to claim to him. The vig shot was good on Batt, the presence of a serial killer pretty heavily implies Chrono as he's got a third-party suited ability, and my initial reaction is that I wouldn't mind seeing Chrono lynched at this point, with AntB as a second option. I agree with Shotty's sentiment about cutting down the NKs, but I also would like to hear what he has to say about AntB before other people end up making the case for him to simply wagon. On that note, I'm not sure what to do about Shotty, as he's traditionally a liability at LYLO, and Zang was active lurky before he got replaced, but I think his slot can be dealt with later after we've seen more from Shotty himself >_>

---

I find each of Chrono's reasons why he isn't an SK to be pretty awful and I reckon we've hit the nail with the proverbial hammer there.

1) "I would kill every night" - I'm pretty sure mafia would kill every night too, yet we had zero kills, and we have a flipped mass roleblocker.
2) "I would kill someone better than CES" - WIFOM rubbish get that away.
3) "Flavour" - mauled by a maul? Kthx.

Vote: Chronopie

---

Leo: did Ghost say that it was a town-confirmed mason? I'm happy to treat Zodiark as fully clear in that case. If it wasn't confirmed, we can't rule out the possibility of a town/scum mason team...

---

I consider the Lack of interaction to be as much a scumtell-link as calling them openly Town.

Why is someone like Doombunny apparently town because Batt didn't try to lynch him and wasn't hostile to him, but the same sentiment towards others is null, and towards me is void? He barely registered Doombunny's - or Zang's or SC's - presence in my quick read of his ISO, except for asking clarifying questions and answering them in turn. There are two points where he's responding to something I said, and he asks me something like once or twice -- about the same quality, if not quantity, of interaction he had with Doom and Zang and SC.

[AurorusVox]

I don't get what CES/Batt have to do with the LoL profile specifically...but beyond that, your implication seems to have something do with the possibility that CES was killed by scum and Ghostlin was killed by a third party?

Ehh...the maul seems to link in with Chrono too much to suggest otherwise. Though, if we think of maul in a different way, it

could

be more like to do with a bear, i.e. scratched with claws, which wouldn't implicate Chrono. A bear...or maybe a werewolf. Which could be scum. So.../shrugs

[AurorusVox]

@Leo, still waiting for the pad from the mod. I'll get my message when I can.

Zodiark: if you think Leo is scum, what's your opinion on him using the encrypted codes and messages?

[AurorusVox]

Chrono; your distinction is arbitrary. Since you're third party or scum, you're not making the sort of effort a townie should. So I'll make it simple; how is this:

Spoiler: AV

AurorusVox 386- No, I need it to come from zem.

Vox 473- I already told vhy I found CES and Zodiark as scum, just look back a page or tvo and it is zere (or ISO as it's pretty recent).

Zang is replacing out, on zose still voting Zang (Leo, Vox, Ghostlin, Doombunny): Does zis change your villingness to lynch Zang slot?

I'll vote PR to avoid a No lynch. I von't be able to get on again today, some RL zings have come up. CES/Leo/Vox haven't asked for a claim, so I don't knov if I need to.

significantly different in quality and quantity than this:

Spoiler: SC

Good, good. A bit more discussion on Poverrox please, especially from Zang, Zodiark13, StrangerCoug, and AntB.

Zang, Zodiark13, StrangerCoug, and AntB- I'll ask again since Zodiark seemed to ignore it, can you give me your case on poverrox?

and this:

Spoiler: Zang

Good, good. A bit more discussion on Poverrox please, especially from Zang, Zodiark13, StrangerCoug, and AntB.

Zang, Zodiark13, StrangerCoug, and AntB- I'll ask again since Zodiark seemed to ignore it, can you give me your case on poverrox? Also, can you tell me vhere you stand on him today and if anyzing has changed your mind about him.

Zang is v/la

Zang is replacing out, on zose still voting Zang (Leo, Vox, Ghostlin, Doombunny): Does zis change your villingness to lynch Zang slot?

or even this:

Spoiler: DB9

Doombunny- I tend not to use FoS's much (in fact, I can't remember the last time I did).

Ghostlin 399, 402- Don't tell me vhat to do. If I vant to vote Leo or Doombunny or vhoever, I vill.

Doombunny 460- I had a misunderstanding about somezing, but upon realizing it, it changed my opinion on Chrono.

Doombunny 469- No. Zere's a reason, but I vill not say vhy, ol' chap.

Doombunny 479- You're hurting my head. It is fucking role related.

Zang is replacing out, on zose still voting Zang (Leo, Vox, Ghostlin, Doombunny): Does zis change your villingness to lynch Zang slot?
Doombunny 540- You are voting Zang to pressure him into giving a read, but you vote after it is announced zat Zang requested replacement. Zis doesn't seem logical to me.

?

[AurorusVox]

@Chrono: Doom gets it. He asked me a question that boiled down to "why are you voting Zang"; the most he asked of SC was "why are you voting PR." The most he asked of Zang is "why are you voting PR." Hell, the most he ASKED Doombunny was "why are you voting Zang" - the rest of his interaction with DB was all about him (Batt).

@Leo: If I ask the mod, he becomes mod-confirmed town, or possibly even mod-con'd scum. If I ask you, the potential for subterfuge (if you're scum) or confusion (if Zodiark is scum) still exists. Its against the spirit of the game to ask the mod, and even ignoring that, I doubt Vas would answer.

[AurorusVox]

@Leo; received a mysterious message, but I'm about to leave for campus now. I'll get the response later.

[AurorusVox]

Later is now that I'm back I'll work through the code.

You want to vote me for playing to the spirit of the game? I prefer asking players questions than mods. I expect its quite rare that mods can give out role info anyway.

[AurorusVox]

Okay I think I did this right. I'm not too good with codes so if it makes no sense let me know and I'll try again...

wchjfrwtiubevknloadonkdimhiddfbxfjltbndpjuqehuzrmtmlofmoxjdjvsuvfonaekkdcrwcrytnnqgiogcnhmevtptzuak

[AurorusVox]

Sorry guys

V/LA til Tuesday

[AurorusVox]

/AV's going on mafia when I should be working post

I've had a very quick read through of the thread and I see that since my V/LA post shotty has been making inconsistent claims and if he was doc'd instead of Ghostlin last night, with a mass roleblock N1 he couldn't have been NK'd at all, on any either night. I'm happy to see him hammered.

You're also waiting for my claim, so:
I am

VasudeVa, MafiaScum Player

, and each night I can use a different role from [Cop/Doc/Tracker]...Basically I'm a one-shot JOAT.

[AurorusVox]

V/LA over.

Zodiark: I don't get what you mean...

You target Ghostlin with a protect.
AntB targets Shotty.
Ghostlin winds up dead.

To me this says that whoever was targetting Shotty was redirected to Ghostlin, and vice versa. It doesn't implicate that Ghostlin's shot got swapped out.

---

@Leo: I wasn't sure if it made sense to claim them both today since scum might benefit from knowing what action I have left to me. Since I've already claimed to you in private I thought that was sufficient. I will claim both actions if it is desirable.

---

@Doombunny: If DRM is my scumbuddy, please explain why I would campaign to get more votes on Zang yesterday. I convinced you to vote for him, after all.

[AurorusVox]

@Doom, bussing does ring a bell, of course, but Zang had a single vote at the time (from Leo) under the premise of him lurking before I laid mine down. That's not enough to justify trying to get him lynched if he was my buddy. There was no momentum in it and as scum I could easily defend lurking as a poor man's scumtell. Bussing at that point made no sense.

I don't like that you're setting up lynches.

[AurorusVox]

@Doom

Zang stopped being "unlikely to get lynched" when I followed Leo in putting my vote on him and started to try to convince you and others to do the same, because the wagon started gaining momentum. The only reason the brakes were put on was because Zang replaced out (and now that I think about it, I remember Batt asking us to take our votes off at that point).

I take that the first point could be WIFOM, but as for the second, it's not WIFOM when it realistically made no sense to bus (as I have outlined above) at that point.

Ehh, setting up lynches of any kind pings my scumdar, and I started looking at a world in which you were Shotty's scumbuddy and were getting on board his inevitable lynch with aims to getting me and/or SC mislynched, relying on your PR to get you all the way to LYLO. But then I realised that if you ended up in LYLO and was lying about your PR, you'd be screwed. So, barring something drastic like a one-shot daykill (not sure how likely this is if there's a scum redirector + ShottyScum has some sort of HP threshold...), I'm willing to put on Doomtown-biased goggles and trust you on this.

[AurorusVox]

Zodiark: why did you protect Ghostlin even though he was Macho?

[AurorusVox]

Machos can't be protected. So I don't get why Zodiark would protect his Mason buddy if he was a Macho Mason. Surely Ghostlin knew he was Macho (this isn't a BMod after all)...

Also, Macho is a passive modifier to a role, not an active ability, so that'd explain why he didn't get it, if he's telling the truth.

[AurorusVox]

Oooooh. No you didn't make that explicit. But what you're saying is if it was a two-way switch, Ghostlin wouldn't have been able to vig, because your target on him would have targeted DRM instead. That's pretty damning evidence. I'd be willing to vote AntB at this point. Also, I remember Ghostlin was suspicious of AntB so that could explain why AntB might have killed him.

I still think DRM is super scummy. He's now saying he wasn't NK'd -- after we've already shown that he can't have been NK'd -- and his story is so flip-floppy that I can't believe its from a townie. I'll put Shotty at L-1, but am happy to climb aboard the AntB wagon too.

Vote: drmyshottyizsik

[AurorusVox]

Is there anything to having AntB shoot tonight to prove he absorbed the role like he said? If he's lying, presumably he's only said he's absorbed the vig shot to cover up his own (SK?) kill, which means if he's lying we should have one less kill tonight than we'd expect, right? But if he's telling the truth there should be a scum kill, a SK kill, and his vig kill.

@Zodiark, lol thanks. I am a bit fan of metatextuality so :p

[AurorusVox]

He claims to have absorbed another shot from Ghostlin.

[AurorusVox]

Goddamnit.

The best lead we have to go on is

Vote: AntB

Leo: remind me why Chrono is confirmed town? You've said this a few times and I've never really understood...

[AurorusVox]

/drunkpost

My AntB vote is due to Zodiark pointing out the way that AntB can't really have been redirected as he said unless we had a specific one person redirector.

If thats the case
Why did they target AntB?

Why not target someone who had given an indication of having a power directly to Leo (Ghostlin or Doom)

Why target AntB for your SINGLE shot? That seems too much to take on.

RE: My power. There's nothing saying all players' powers ahve to be ewual, leo. I picked VasudeVa, and VasudeVa is a mafia player. I assume that's why I got regular mafia roles. Because VV is a regular mafia player.

[AurorusVox]

Erm... Everyone has a power. This was mentioned during sign-ups and no one mentioned whether or not they had a night action other than Leo who already claimed.

You indicated you had info to give to Leo, suggesting a night-based information getting power.

I don't think I really understand what you mean by "too much to take on". As for why they chose Ant, why wouldn't they choose Ant? From what scum knew at the time, he was as good of a target as anybody.

See above. Too much to take on, I mean, it doesn't make sense. Seems awful lucky.

[AurorusVox]

EBWOP I forgot to paste these

gg I was the sk

/facepalm

Leo sits and recalls thinking of redirectors as normally being one-way busdrivers... Leo finds this interpretation odd.

What about the interpretation was odd? The "SINGLE shot" bit?

Why target AntB for your SINGLE shot? That seems too much to take on.

Leo gives AurorosVox a funny look for

apparently knowing that the redirector is one-shot

.[/quote]
=_=" By SINGLE shot I mean, your single switch that night. I.e. if you are one-way (that would have been a better term, eh), I don't know why AntB made a reasonable target. If you're swapping two, then I can see swapping a pro-town and a considered-less-town player.

Also, further to you voting me because my ability is boring: we've had a regular busdriver (standard role), a role-cop (pretty standard) and a jailkeeper (standard), with flips on both sides of town and scum. So I don't really get your point, Leo.

---

I'm trying to remember here, but did Shotty implicate that he had to be shot twice at night in order to die?

If so, in an ideal world, could we have AntB use his vig shot (which also proves he's telling the truth) and hope that scum don't redirect his shot away, and then further hope that scum shoot Shotty. That way we guarantee the SK is gone. I haven't had a chance to look at numbers but I'm guessing its getting to the point where the scum need to get rid of the SK as much as everyone else...

[AurorusVox]

Sure thing. N1 I

tracked PR

because I doubted his claim and thought I could catch him out if he was lying. I had

no result

from him which is why I was interested in him claiming his targets during D1 ; when he said he'd swapped SC and Chrono, I became suspicious (or thought that I may have been RB'd). I was happy to see him lynched yesterday in case I hadn't been RB'd and PR was lying. Turns out there was a mass roleblocker in play.

N2 I saw Leo talking about a doctor protecting him. So I used my

Doc Protect on Leo

.

N3 I have my cop investigate left over. I figured saving the cop target til later on would be best since I'd have a smaller pool to choose from and would be more likely to hit scum.

[AurorusVox]

I didn't get a result. (Can trackers get a "visited no one" result? It's my first time as tracker on-site >_>)

[AurorusVox]

Zodiark: I think he's saying you WIFOM whether you protect AntB or me, not split it (I didn't even think you could do that?)

If you do use your power on AntB, and I die from his shot, then this confirms AntB is shooting as town.
(if he is using a mafia kill instead of the vig, he'd get RB'd, and I'd survive and he'd be caught).

If you use your power on me so I survive, and then if I get a cop report, AntB didn't RB me and is lying scum
(if I don't get a report, then AntB RB'd me as Ghostlin's role)

The reason Doom says between me or Ant is because if you die tonight you can't tell us which you chose. But by doing 50/50, even in the event of your death, we have the following:

(1) AV survives w/ cop report: AntB is scum (Z-->AV or Z-->AB)
(2) AV survives w/o cop report: AntB is town (Z-->AV)
(3) AV dies: AntB is town.* (Z-->AntB)

*I can only die if AntB is not shooting as scum. If he shoots as scum, Zodiark will RB him and we'll get (1)

---

I understand the plan and my part in it. Is there anything else anyone would like to add to it?

[AurorusVox]

Leo: Well, I know that I won't lie since I'm town, but I guess that's why the whole plan doesn't revolve around me being alive tomorrow and telling the truth.

What in particular are you shaking your head at in #3? The way I understand it, if AntB is scum and tries to kill me, Zodiark either targets and protects me, or targets and RBs AntB (thereby saving me). Thus the only way I can die (with the correct flavour) is if AntB is shooting as town.

[AurorusVox]

@Leo, I thought the kill being Flavoured was implied anyway. Didn't realise I had to spoon feed it.
I didn't want to say this out loud, but if the scum want to risk redirecting, they could simply end up redirecting a RB and not a kill. In that case, the best redirect target is me as I'm the ONLY active role left - and since I'd be the target anyway, it's a pointless venture. The plan is good.

@Zodiark, no problems with the hammer. I was only really waiting to see if you were on board with the plan, so.

The latest plan is inferior to the first. If Zodiark ONLY protects me, we don't confirm AntB's alignment at all, since AntB won't be able to kill me as scum OR town. So the first ones (where he protects AntB or someone else) is better.

Vote: StrangerCoug

Hammer ho!

[AurorusVox]

Oops. I misread the plan post.

RETRACTION!

Doom's latest plan is best.

[AurorusVox]

Yippeee!!

Scum QT (I love day talk, though I think I natter a bit too much...)

I was getting VERY scared about this game towards the end. We basically were left with ONLY Leo as a potential mislynch (not a good prospect since he was on spot about almost everything, bar Ant's alignment - which was another reason he was being kept alive). I'm extremely glad how D3 turned out. I noticed gaping flaws in the plans but stayed very quiet about it.

Chrono: we killed you because you could make yourself unlynchable, thus forcing 50:50s at LYLO. Doom had the same effect BUT crucially he thought Ant was town. Although, we knew that if the kill on you didn't go through (i.e. if Zod didn't enable the kill), we'd be in a dirty, dirty LYLO (Doom potentially conf. town, you unlynchable - I am under no illusions I'd have been lynched that day.)

VV, this was a rollercoaster game, incredibly fun imo! I loved the "SOMETHING IS HAPPENING?!" moments. They were top class.

<3333333

----------

Quick PbP!

Most of the town were incredibly competent and nailed something like 2/3 scum each!

I was sure Chrono was SK after we saw "mauled." Chrono's catching of me as Batt-buddy early on was very impressive, and I struggled to ignore it by directing attention to the potential SK-ness. Didn't expect lurker-Zang to be it, but, I guess he hoped lurking would keep votes off of him.

CES: Not sure what the Dayprotect was all about? But yeah, I guess that was a good move to use your mass block N1 - it did stop town potentially having setup info from D2 though, i.e. that we were dealing with a SK as well as a scumteam.

Doom: your plans could have torn the scum apart...if me and Ant hadn't been scumbuddies. I'm surprised no one noticed that if Ant was a vig, there'd have been a lack of a scumkill N2 though. I mentioned that in the scum QT :p

Leo, you were probably (imo) the scariest town player, though I'm not sure why you let AntB off so lightly. I might be biased because you were pressuring me all yesterday.

Plum: I agree that gambitting is more fun than playing cautiously, its a shame you got lynched for it this game.

PR: If you're town and you think you have scum in your sights, unless you're at LYLO and they're quickhammer distance; or unless you'll be hammering someone on like the first page...personally, I don't think there's really any major reason to withhold your vote. It's better to have a vote on someone than no one, and when you start FoSing, its better to vote seriously than keeping an RVS. Just my opinion but I do think townies withholding their vote helps scum more than town.

SC, I don't know why YOU got lynched >_>

Zod: You were all over AntB that last day, I was convinced I'd have to bus after you outed his fake claim. Its a shame for town that less people listened to you (I think I was one of the only ones who did :p)

[AurorusVox]

^read the dead QT now

I like how in the dead QT no one thought I was scum, but in the game itself I thought I was getting pretty obvScum towards the end. I killed off all my fans T_T

[AurorusVox]

>_> Did you think he was lying about absorbing the vig part of the role?

[AurorusVox]

Mason QT makes for interesting reading. I like how all the N1 vig targets were town :p It also shows how leaving Leo alive til LYLO could have turned into his mislynch; I truly believe he was the ONLY mislynchable townie after a certain point.

[AurorusVox]

/pre-in for the next one too. I had so many ideas ><

CES' was awesome

[AurorusVox]

AV: N1 Vig included Zang, which was the SK.

._." I uh, meant "not scum" >_>

<_<

>_>

But then like...100% of your vig targets N2 were scum xD

[AurorusVox]

^I quivered in my boots when you nailed all three of us in that post.