Mini 1113 - Brotherhood of the Wolf Mafia

[GreyICE]

Hi everyone, replacing in!

Unvote

Want to give this thread a thorough readthrough. Really liked the look of this game!

btw, UK, what is up with the Gurren Lagann glasses? I've seen like a bunch of people with those, and I remain very confused. It's some injoke I missed, right?

[GreyICE]

It's probably my fault, actually ^-^. One of the games I modded a long time ago had me create an arbitrary rule that everyone in the game had to put Kamina Glasses in their avatar or be insulted by me in every post. It sorta became a meme from there.

And I'm so sorry you thought this game looked good. It will give you a headache by page 17.

Yeah, this is my page 10 break. Fortunately, the drama seems to be winding down.

Anyway, that sounds pretty cool. Though I'd be insulted by you every post, I can't imagine Lain with those glasses

I'm going to do a wall post to summarize my thoughts when I'm done here. Don't worry, I intend to beat the deadline!

[GreyICE]

AKnottedRope. I'm on page 15 and the drama is back full bore. I need to read some ISOs, but I have some decent reads.

So far, honestly CooLDoG seems like the stereotypical 'day 1 mislynch.' This player named ShadoWolf I've encountered twice was really good at drawing them too. His claim above isn't too far off JoaT, which is an awsome role to have around (although the name is weird... maybe it's inexperience on this site, but do day vigs typically end days? If not, why is there that clause?). I really don't support lynching him today.

I have more reads, but I want to sit down and get my thoughts together, and finish the next 13 pages. Just wanted to give my input on the current situation.

[GreyICE]

Oh poo, just hit some drama about this:

Unvote: AlmasterGM

That formatted correctly?

Your previous Unvote was also correct. Unvoting a specific player is only incorrect if you weren't actually voting of that player. A generic Unvote is alway valid.

[GreyICE]

Ayiyiyiyi.

Okay, first I apologize for whatever my predecessor was doing. I'm not a huge fucking fan of AGM's unrelenting dickery to pretty much everyone, but he reads pretty fucking town to me, so I have literally no fucking clue what my vote was doing there. I can only think OMGUS, really, although that's a stupid overused phrase. In any case, it was a fucking anti-town place for the vote to be, so... whatever. Now, reads.

Town

AlmasterGM - he seems mostly town to me - if 'town asshole.' If I had one reservation, it would be the unrelenting lurker hunting, but I am no fan of lurkers myself. They bring down the game, and there always,

always

is scum hiding in the lurkers. Period. So it might be an easy target for scum, but they're also going to end up eating their buddies, sooner or later. Between that, the neighbor bit, yeah, town.

Mina - starved for time, yes, but the quality posting she's delivering to the thread more than make up for it. One of them she apologizes for how little time she has - then proceeds to offer more insight than the three PREVIOUS PAGES. I have to love posting like that.

Leaning Town

CooLDoG - Okay, I'm putting this one up here because it seems so controversial. But he reads town to me. There's no daytalk in this, right? (If there is, please ignore everything after this). But what I'm seeing is a distinct lack of scumcoaching. There's no buddies hopping up to defend him. (okay, now you can pay attention again, because the rest isn't related to daytalk) And he's what, the one-shot assassin if he's scum? I can't imagine him claiming that power and not being able to back it up. The assassin has literally infinite power to screw with the town - I mean imagine we're in LyLo and... bang! Or we think we have a lynch before LyLo and... bang! MyLo it is! I mean what an awesome ability to fuck us up. I cannot believe that he has a role that powerful, and his scumbuddies are content to see him under a bus, especially in a town this ripe with lurkers and shitposting. Tracker too? Tracker is provable. If he tracks any townie with powers, then he'll get a provable result, and that'll make him confirmed.

Maybe it's just a stupid made up claim by scum flailing around before they die. I don't see it, I don't like it, and I don't buy it.

Mariyta - I'm not reading her as overwhelmingly thrilled by the drama, but she seems to be doing her best to help. I don't agree CooLDoG is scum, but if I tried to lynch everyone I ever had a disagreement with, I'd be useless and catch zero scum.

LynchMePlease - Ugh, I just gut him as town. See, I hate that when other people say it, but it really is the truth. He guts as town to me.

Neutral

HavingFitz - I think he might be on to something with UK, I'll elaborate later. But his moderately low volume of posting and sloppy lack of insistence means it really comes off as much distancing as an actual good case.

Katsuki - . I think I need to quote her on Fitz: "I have no impression of him at all this game. Hell I wouldn't know he was in this game without looking at VC." Yeah, you have more drunk posts and random one or two liners, but...

StrangerCoug - Okay, yeah, I have no idea. I'm going to sheep someone else on this, I'm not sure I'd be able to read him if he was posting three times what he does... and that's obviously not happening.

Ghostwriter - this one has to be the hardest decision I've ever made. I've gone back and forth on sticking him into the leaning scum category like five times. But something just holds me back. I have no idea what. His weird tunnel, the fast vote switch, none of it looks good. I'm saying neutral, for now.

Leaning Scum

UK - this has to be the most bloodthirsty post I've seen in the thread: "CD, shoot someone. Now that you've claimed, it's virtually certain you'll be NK'd. Hell, shoot UT, there's enough support for his death." So CD shoots, and what? Hits UT? And then she NKs him? It was leaning scum even before that post, but that was just... the shit? Directing town power to kill people (please don't hit me or my buddies!), claiming NK certainty in order to provide pressure, etc? No. I do not like this, Sam I am. If UT flips town, I'm going to just move this to the "Scum" category on the "don't hit my buddies" principle.

Fucking Lurkers, Trix are for Posters

Zang, UT - both of these are worse than Fitz, SC, and Katsuki rolled into one. I fucking am certain that those five names, AT LEAST one flips scum, and my bet would be two. The Zang neighbor thing is the ONLY thing that makes UT worse, and that itself is the ONLY thing that is keeping UK out of the straight scum category at this point. Are these two new and maybe not used to the flow of this game, in terms of aggressiveness? Nah, seriously, fuck that noise. Something is scummy around here. Seriously, these two? What. The. Fuck.

[GreyICE]

Mariyta - I'm not reading her as overwhelmingly thrilled by the drama, but she seems to be doing her best to help. I don't agree CooLDoG is scum, but if I tried to lynch everyone I ever had a disagreement with, I'd be useless and catch zero scum.

Don't quite understand this. I think CD is town, not scum. And you're damn right I'm not overwhelmingly thrilled by the drama. There's been a lot of drama in many of my games. Enough to make a girl go mad. As for your gut on LMP, what do you think of the miller claim? That's been a very controversial point.

And I disagree with you on your UK comment. I think it's a good idea for CD to use his vig today. Especially if he uses it on UT. That will free us up to find another scum. There is a good chance that CD will die tonight anyway. Scum tend to hit the confirmed (or somewhat confirmed) townies.

Now where are you going to place your vote? Deadline is tomorrow.

Sorry, I thought I read you voting for him. Well, all I can say is 'my bad.' That removes one of my reservations.

Anyway, lets see, I'm starting to dislike UT just because of UK's response to me. I'd yell at AlmasterGM too, but, well, waste of my time. Anyway, I HATE directing town power. Since I'm feeling stronger that UK is scum trying to direct the kill onto people not on her team, I'd say that I feel better about the SC wagon.

CooLDoG, I will say... take your shot. At whoever you feel is the scummiest.

PEdit: Oh cool, time extension! That's made of win. Okay, I agree with SC here, I'm not thrilled with the idea of voting on the shot. All of us are frequently dumber than any one of us, especially when

some

of them are trying to toss the shot onto town.

I'm trying to catch up here, but I really would consider StrangerCoug or UK very hard. I just... don't have a good feeling about UT, with how UK is acting, but in that I'll bow to the will of the town. Certainly he hasn't added much, but I just don't feel it.

[GreyICE]

This is easily solved. We vote on who he kills. After, of course, he claims with name and flavor. Then we commence to the shooting to be sure of the claim and to try to hit scum. Then we lynch Katsuki.

Personally, I say we aim for HF. But CD DOES NOT GET TO CHOOSE HIS OWN SHOT. The general consensus is that CD is either scum or VI. Why the fuck would you give him control over his shot instead of us having control of it?

Because he does anyway? I mean say he's really the village total idiot. We vote, he hates the results, takes whatever shot he wants, then we what? Lynch him when we're 80% on him flipping town? Not like we can mail in a PM for him.

I'll offer suggestions, but I see voting as fucking pointless when I feel this sure someone is town.

[GreyICE]

Question for GI: How often do you see scum "directing town power"?


And is that REALLY your case on me? That I'm "directing town power?"

If you were hyper townswoman the townie who just posted that, like AlmasterGM, I'd go... whatever. You're not, and I don't like the implication that that's the ONLY thing I find objectionable.

[GreyICE]

Which question, Kitten? I thought I just DID answer your question. If you want to know what I find scummy about you, I've read archives and seen your scum and SK play. Shit like this says to me you're doing your chip on the sholder chainsaw town defense:

More like I don't suffer idiocy. Because your vote is utterly stupid for several reasons.

1)The Zang wagon didn't have much activity by the time I jumped on it, and I weighed WHY I did it.
2)Vote Count Analysis only works when you have flips. You don't have anything concrete to stand on, so your vote amounts to utter bullshit because you thought you saw a trend. Good job.
3)If you look at my posting history, for the most part it's been fairly pro town. The fact you just assume that one vote can suddenly reveal my motivations reveals you are a TERRIBLE mafia player.

Why don't you try hard?

EBWOP: Posting AND voting history. I've been fairly transparent and so far, you're the only person dumb enough to think I could be scum.

So to go with these strong, compelling statements that make me think of someone like Fate or Reckoner, how are your scumreads?

Ugh, so much has been smashed here.

SC would be my top read at the moment, already told you why. Being passive, latching onto others, etc.

UT improved a lot but then disappeared, which is kinda lame. So, sure, let's put UT in second for now.

...I really don't have a third. Anyone who I'd consider scummy is really just acting like a complete moron all around. I guess I'd provisionally go for havingfitz because his logic is really silly for voting me. It's also intriguing he picks a wagon that SURE as hell won't get off the ground less than 5 days before deadline. So...

But moar SC votes.

Then you build yourself a wonderful SC case. Great. I love it. You had a fucking good SC case. Then it comes down to the wire and you want to... shoot UT. What? Why shoot UT? Not "Shoot UT, lynch SC." Just... shoot UT. Why? You have a strong case, and you derail it for... shit all. I don't even fucking get it. That sort of open-minded bloodthirst says to me that you don't give a fuck who lives or dies. Oh look, lets create an SC case. Oh, people are swinging towards UT? Well, lets just shoot him. Lets not worry overly much about it.

And I've seen your scum play, so don't bother getting all emotional and raging at me. I'll just laugh in your face.

[GreyICE]

Heh, you are also bad at meta. I've done this same "act" as town.

As for shooting UT, I figured it was more in line with what town wanted.

Seeing as how there's a lot more vocal support for a UT lynch than an SC lynch.

Quite frankly, UT and SC can both die for all I care.

You're getting up there because your case kinda sucks, really. Though a bad case doesn't necessarily indicate scum...it's just your case has a feeling of setting out with the intent of painting me scummy.

Have fun with that.

I will note you're right. I don't care who dies today.

We need flips, and everyone thus far having been proposed has been scummy as fuck. CD and your slot were about the only lynches I disagreed with.

I don't even know what to say. Seriously, this is exactly what I found scummy, this "I don't care who lives or dies" attitude that you just exhibited here along with the very very strong opinions you showed earlier in the thread, and then you just came out and more or less said the same thing, while suggesting my case is bad.

I don't fucking know. In my experience, not really caring who we kill is more of a scum thing than a town thing, since town know that every single mislynch costs us a townie to the night kill... and probably not one of those 'useless townies,' as the phrase has been tossed around. Maybe I'm just a more conservative player, but this really seems to now be removing some of the responsibility for the outcomes of the flips under the guise that we 'need them.' Fuck, I feel guilty if one of my cases lynches a townie (unless it's someone like that idiot who tried to quickhammer a claimed doctor Day 1), I don't fucking say that we 'needed the flip.'

[GreyICE]

This is actually the town UK I'm familiar with.

So, lynch UT, vig HF? Sounds good to me! Unless CD can vig himself... that would rock.

I still think that UT will flip town, but that was basically based on my read of UK as scum, so if that's off then I have to take him on his own merits. And he has some decent early game stuff, but it does degenerate into total shit. Also, this?

I'm a great lynch if you're scum. Otherwise I'm a terribad lynch

Really? That's one of the weakest defenses I've seen in a nice long time. Despite that, his early game play seems decent. Is this another frustrated townie? I can see it. This game is enormously frustrating, and it could just be he's tired of the garbage certain posters are dumping in the thread.

I still hold by my original read. Town meta or not, UK's 'lets get some flips!' playstyle seems enormously anti-town to me. I've seen scum go down day 1 before. I have yet to see 'well lets fucking FLIP something people' be very town. I'm not particularly pushing a UK lynch because (no matter how scummy she says this is) I have no fucking hope of getting it to pass through unless I see a lot of people disagree with me (and from what I've seen here, that's unlikely).

I will fucking circle back if we decide to "LETS FUCKING FLIP SOMETHING" on UT and he 'flips' town. I am not at all happy with the flip shit "playstyle."

[GreyICE]

CooLDoG... I'm just not going to comment. I posted two logical reasons you should be town (no scumbuddy defense, tracker claim) and you just made me rethink both of them. Don't threaten people, that's anti-town.

They're right, you're called out for that horrible play. If you're both town (although I don't like the odds on UK) it's going to be garbage if you shoot her, then we lynch you, and eliminate two town instantly. Lets see how one of UK's scumreads flips. I know I'm town, so if Fitz flips town, that "two of these three are scum" shit is going to look even more garbage than it already does to me. He thinks UK is scum too, so he's fucking obvscum as well, right UK? Your OMGUS chip on the shoulder is ridiculous.

For the record, my head is still overruling my gut on CooLDoG, although my gut is wavering. I think he's town.

PEDIT: Suddenly, a barrage of posts! Lemme read.

[GreyICE]

I must go. Bye for now.

WHAT THE FUCK? WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK? WHAT IS THIS SHIT?

DOES THE SCUM HAVE DAYTALK POWERS? DO THEY? IF SO, I 100% SUPPORT A COOLDOG LYNCH.

THIS IS THE BIGGEST LOAD OF FUCKING NONSENSE I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY FUCKING LIFE. THIS IS COMPLETE HORSESHIT! WHY THE FUCK WOULDN'T YOU TAKE THE FUCKING SHOT? V/LA? MYSTERIOUS RETURN DURING V/LA? NOW THIS? I DON'T WANT A FUCKING EXPLANATION, I WANT SOME FUCKING BLOOD.

[GreyICE]

See, the thing is, it's not really OMGUS. You EACH have scummy things against you ignoring any "cases" on me. Even then, it's a bit conspiracy theoristish...but...then CD claims the big bad of the movie? Uh...no.

Sorry, not going to accept that. If CD is scum, then two of you three form the rest. It's too fucking convenient otherwise.

But, I'll thank you for trying to strap an overused buzzword to me. Learn to play mafia, not rhetoric wars.

SHUT UP TURBO CUNT, YOUR LYNCH CHAINING IS NOTED AND IGNORED FOR NOW.

I WANT SOME FUCKING EXPLANATIONS FROM COOLDOG FUCKING STAT.

[GreyICE]

I'M PISSED BECAUSE HE COMES ON HERE AND DECLARES HIMSELF TWO USEFUL POWER ROLES TO THE TOWN, RIGHT BEFORE HE BLOODY FLAKES INTO V/LA. THEN HE COMES BACK

DURING V/LA

AND THREATENS SOMEONE, FLIPS TO SOMEONE ELSE, THINKS ABOUT SOMEONE ELSE, THEN WANDERS OFF. WHY NOT SUBMIT THE FITZ SHOT? OR THE UK SHOT? OR SOMETHING? BUT NO, HE JUST LEAVES THE THREAD.

WHAT'S THERE TO FIGURE OUT IF YOU'RE TOWN? YOU TAKE YOUR SHOT AT THE SCUMMIEST PERSON, YOU LET US LYNCH WITH THE RESULTS OF THAT SHOT, YOU DIE DURING N1. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE FUCKING HOLD UP IS. THIS IS RIDICULOUS!

I DON'T EXPECT HIM TO LIVE HIS BLOODY LIFE ON MAFIASCUM. BUT HE CAN FIND A LESS

SCUMMY

WAY TO DO IT. WATCH, WE DEADLINE LYNCH SOMEONE ELSE THEN HE'S ALIVE ON DAY 2. ALL LIKE "LOL, PEOPLE I GUESS THE SCUM DIDN'T WANT TO KILL ME HURR DURR."

THIS IS INFURIATING.

[GreyICE]

Fine. I'm taking my own three or four hour break from this thread to cool off. Between this and MultiplePersonalityMafia though, I have to say DayVig gives people the most power to bastard fuck with the town, scum or not.

I'll reread when I'm in a better mood.

[GreyICE]

Sorry guys, still can't do it. I read the last few pages and my eyes glaze over and the blood starts to boil. That doesn't help the town at all. I'm just going to sleep on this one. I have... no words. I was so close to just posting Unvote/Vote CD when I hit here.

Mariyta - She's been handing out insults liberally, and apparently can take them. I'm cool with that. I'm also an asshole, but scum or town UK is too. I'll avoid that particular word for your sensibilities, I guess.

Fuck it. I'm going to sleep on this. I still can't think straight. GAH.

[GreyICE]

Eh, sorry about it then. I've cooled off a little, except when I'm reading CD posts. I really need to just sleep on this one. Log off, go to bed.

[GreyICE]

First, quick aside, lurking is a scumtell. Does it mean a person is scum? No. But scum gain more out of lurking than town. They can't scumslip when they're not posting. They don't have to take as many stances on people they know will flip town, and they don't have to bus their partners. They get less attention, and they make less statements people interpret as suspicious (any poster, no matter how 'omg 100% protown' is going to make some statements that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE will find suspicious in their posts). For every game where all the scum were active posters, there have been twenty, if not two hundred, where at least one, and sometimes every single scum was lurking. So yes, lurking is a scumtell, although it is hardly the 'be all and end all of scumhunting.'

Second, I'm actually starting to believe CD when he said that threatening people is pro town. My god, the reactions. HavingFitz has posted like more than he has in like the past week. Katsuki? She posted these gems:

/back will post either today or tomorrow when I have time.

CD, you shoot for who you think is scum. If you want to shoot UK, then shoot her. Just because some people have expressed thoughts on her being town means that she is town.

Vig's were never meant to make to be popular. They are meant to smite scum.

EBWOP: In other words, trust yourself, CD. I for one think you're playing better this game than in others (though, I've never played with town-you before, so I dunno about your townplay).

Translation: "Hi my best buddy! You know you're so smart and handsome and

pleeaaaasseee

don't put a bullet right between my eyes just because my name has come up a few times..."

I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment, but my god was that sycophantic way of expressing it. Like, 'can I polish your boots with my tongue' sycophantic.

[GreyICE]

Well just reread the last 10 pages. Results:

Fuck it. HavingFitz doesn't come off as town trying to push create a case on scum, he comes off as scum trying to do... something before he dies. I can't decide what, but when your arguments are "your play is shit" and "you're always wrong day 1" and the good ol' scum standby "well even if you're town

you're bad for this town!

" you have to wonder. When you have posted five times as much in the past day as you have any time before that when it suddenly looks like your death is imminent, I have to say "what the fuck?" There is literally no way a case like the one he presented could convince me that anyone was scum. Ever. In any situation. It's just so bad that I have to agree with UK (*shudder*) when she says scumflailing. I mean if you really, truly think you have a case, why try and stick it so hard only when you're about to die? Want to talk about anti-town? Not pushing a case on someone you think is scum until you realize you might die/be lynched? That's anti-town.

If anything, Katsuki's sycophantic buddying sticks in my craw worse now that I've done a reread. I'm going to

Unvote

Vote: Katsuki

on the theory that HavingFitz has just upgraded himself to prime vigbait. I fucking HATE buddying, it makes my skin crawl whenever I see it. When I reread Katsuki's ISO, I see a little bit here and there, some friend making and smiley faces, but nothing like this amazing level of sycophantic garbage that I see now. It makes me think of more of a scum mindset - "I have to live for the good of my team!" Lets face it a non-offensive word for CooLDoG's play this game would be

somewhat suboptimal.

I don't think he's necessarily what people are making out, but my blood was STEAM yesterday, and there's a reason for that. I'm still bloody pissed. So Katsuki being all like "ooh, good CooLDoG, plz don't shoot me with that gun because you're soooo smaaarrtttt CooLDoG" really sticks where it hurts.

Also guys, seriously, if there is a language filter in this game, just tell me and I'll keep it all PG-13 and shit. I figured there wasn't from page after page of everyone calling each other fucking morons and retards and whatever they wanted, so I called it like I saw it when I was in a lousy goddamn mood. I apologize

again

if anyone was offended, but I don't get the fucking hate ladled my way. Am I that out of line with the tone of the game? Well we've been all called out. So I'll stick to insulting people's arguments and trying to treat the players with respect.

@Mod: Sorry.

[GreyICE]

One fucking word? Seriously, that's it? One word? You can call people fucking morons, assholes, retards, bitches, jerks, douchebags, dicks, whatever, and everyone flips out over the word cunt? Okay... there must be something I just don't get going on. Fuck it, I've wasted enough of my time and the town's time on this.

UT, you're continuing to cement yourself into my leaning town list. I'll reread Mariyta when I get a chance, although frankly labeling yourself as an easy target is makes me sad and/or rage. Why not contribute to the town and thus become a 'harder target' rather than relying on the lousy 'easy target' excuse? I mean figure out why you're an 'easy target' for everyone to assume as scum, and do pro-town things to prevent that rather than crying 'oh dear me, I is an easy targetz!' Townies use it to coast, scum use it to hide, and both can trigger unexpected caps lock rages.

[GreyICE]

Taking a short break.

@GI: It's not that amazingly amazing that you're agreeing with me. Regardless of my methods, people for some reason do seem to think I'm a halfway decent player. You might not like me, but I don't think the fact you've basically started to see what I see is so noteworthy it requires a shudder. Now then, do you think HF is scum with me? What about Katsuki?

Fine, fine. You're the veteran scumhunter, mistress. I still hate your methods

[GreyICE]

That was probably sarcasm, but in case it wasn't, I did say halfway decent. I'm far from Glork good, or really anywhere near the "high tier" players. I just have some concept of what I'm doing, whether you like my methods or not, mostly all I was pointing out.

Also, there were two questions in what you quoted. Please answer them ^-^.

Oh, seriously? I thought they were rhetorical based on my post in #825. I'll make it perfectly clear:

I can't find any motivation for HFs miserable attack, or the fact that he's shown up here at the last minute to push it again, JUST when CD has revealed that he might shoot you. I don't know about you, but if I think I found scum, I hound them until I get a damn good reason they're not scum or they die and flip. I don't make a case, drop off the radar, and suddenly show up again to push it at the last second when a vig shot is about to hit. So yeah. I agree to a lynch on HF if he doesn't get vigged. He's scum in my book.

Kats: I want to know why she started all of a sudden buddying the guy with the gun. It doesn't feel very town to me. Honestly, your reaction feels a lot more townish to me. I reviewed an ISO, and I don't really feel she's done much today besides suspect you and AGM in a somewhat lackluster way. I slotted her into neutral based on my read of you as scum, so her and fitz were reading lazy town suspecting a legitimate scum, but I'm rethinking that read. If I rethink that read a fuck lot more drops into place, and suddenly she hasn't done anything town at all, and she just started buddying someone, so... yeah.

As for the sarcasm, yeah, I was distinctly unimpressed that your scumdar was pegging everyone who attacked you as scum, but I think you're onto something here. What was that phrase you used? "See how they flip and go from there?" Well fuck that. I want Kats to at least explain herself, and I think HF has just rendered himself 'this better be the fucking

Hamlet

of explanations.'

[GreyICE]

Ha, that homophobic [REDACTED - see modnote]. Yeah. You wanna grind my gears? Make posts like his ISO #0.

On a serious note,

mod do votes reset if someone dayvigs?

Votes are not reset if a theoretical Dayvig were to occur. Any resulting changes to the lynch threshold would apply if someone was theoretically killed during the day.

I'm traveling to Boston tomorrow so I can do phone posts if I need to put a vote somewhere.

[GreyICE]

Ffs not living my life saying sorry word choice does not make me scum goddamn it.

I don't know how we can replace cats here. It's a pain to follow on phone but I don't see much to change my vote. Back from Boston tonight more then lame I know.

[GreyICE]

Okay, I've snagged twenty minutes on my late lunch hour to read the past few pages and parts of the thread and post something from a real computer (well, shit work laptop). I don't feel good just lynching for the sake of flips, and I want to give this game what it deserves.

I feel Kats last few posts are honest, which make me want to say town. Certainly I understand stress and time problems. But I don't know what to think. Did she go into this game hoping for a stress-free town play and find herself with stressful role as scum trying to fly under the radar? Did she expect this game to be less hostile and combative? Did she just honestly underestimate the amount of time she has?

I feel Kats is replacing out because she feels she's not a help to her team, I just

don't know the team.

Her abilities don't help. I don't even understand why poisoning someone 'doctors' them, but debating flavor is full of fail. The ability to nighttime roleblock. Double roleblocker (or RB/JK I guess?). This really doesn't feel hyper town to me. Assuming you got lucky, you could lock down two of the scumteam in one go. That's a lot of power. Fuck it, I'm hardly a setup theorycrafter, so I'll leave that to someone who is - can someone with more experience in the setups tell me if town would get roles like that?

Anyway, ignoring setup and information, I have to look at the content of the posts. I've done an ISO and reread, and here's what sticks out most to me.

When did I ever say my CD-town was based on gut?
This whole statement feels frabricated, I don't remember not sounding very confident about cooldog either.

This statement drives me

insane.

You claim to have better reasons to believe CooLDoG is town than 'gut' but you never, ever elaborate. I understand lack of time, but I can't help but think this is scum knowing CD is town because CD isn't in the quickthread, going to look for "reasons to believe" CD is town, and then shrugging the shoulders and giving up. It's NEVER FUCKING EXPLAINED TO ME.

Unvote

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removed spacing for readability

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Just want to say, them being neighbors =/= confirmed town. Just that they're not the lynch for today.
Cooldog is also not the lynch for today. He is a giant VI, but I have a strong town-read on him this game.
LMP is underwhelming. But I think I've learned that town-LMP is underwhelming. We'll see.
Mari is as hard to read as ever. Last two times I had her read as scum and she was town, so.
Fitz worries me. I have no impression of him at all this game. Hell I wouldn't know he was in this game without looking at VC.
SC is being SC, and I have not had the time to read him.
I would be fine with a UK lynch at this time. She is not that town-presence I am used to in previous games. I get this odd aura around her.

Vote: UK

Post is a straight up 'gut' claim. And it really seems like she doesn't want to paint herself into a corner. Everyone is null, except CD and UK. If anyone does an ISO on her and finds her supporting a lynch candidate, well, guess what? She said they were null, no contradictions. It reads really, really cautious to me because it paves the way for a weak bandwagon hop of "Well, they were null to me, but now because of {

insert bandwagoning reasoning here

} they are scummy." Is the gut guiding anywhere except AGM (aborted), UK, and (not) CD? Apparently fucking not.

Kat:

Started out ok, then became combative, short-winded, and generally lazy. Asking for people to basically tell her what to think. Not the Kats I know.

If lazy is not having had the time to read/play properly, then sure. I don't remember the last two times I had to go on V/LA.

This feels really defensive and completely forced. Why? Well, it's posted on Feb 03. On Feb 02 (the day before) in the ISO:

I forgot to mention.

V/LA until Sunday/Monday due to holidays and weekend trip.

I will definately try and squeeze in a post pre-lynch though.

This is NOT THE ONLY instance of unnecessary defensiveness, it's just the only one that makes my head hurt this badly. I'm not going to summarize everything wrong with this interaction, because it should be fucking obvious.

II can try and compare this to someone else in a similar situation. Ellibereth currently replaced out of every game due to medical reasons. I was in a game that recently finished with him as town. And, well... he was shit, shit, shit town. I won't sugar coat it. I've linked to his ISO here: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 34&start=0

Kats doesn't read like Elli in that game. Elli is trying (and failing) to scumhunt well - I can fill in the backstory if anyone is interested, but he did tunnel in on a pair of people who HAD to be scum, and he was RIGHT (one of them was). He lurked, was missing for all of day 3, sucked, etc., put nowhere near enough time into his posts to convince anyone who wasn't him of his logic, but he was scumhunting, and he was apologetic for his lurking, or at least joking - not defensive at all.

Different people are different, this probably is not a very fair comparison. But fuck it, it's really what I have, and I'm feeling this one.

I am happy with where my vote is.

P.S. Sorry for the walls people, I'm doing a lot of catchup here. They'll decrease as I've had more time to space out my reads and my notes. Frankly, I'd LIKE to have been grilling Kats a week or two ago, but I wasn't here, water under the bridge, yadda fucking yadda.

PEDIT: It's seven to lynch, there's 12 alive. I just double checked.

[GreyICE]

Yes, lets just keep fucking screaming at each other, that accomplished so much yesterday.

I'd like to do some actual logical fucking thinking today.

PEDIT: I'd like to rethink what is or isn't a bullshit case. I'm pissed. I thought I gave both cases time and fucking effort, and I fucking wiffed.

[GreyICE]

Well, just reread Fitz and Katsuki ISOs. If there's some wisdom to be gained from the knowledge of the confirmed-town dead, then their ISO ain't fucking revealing it to me. Anyone else want to give it a shot?

Fuck it, I'm taking this up tonight with a few shots of JD because the only way to reread this game is fucking drunk.

[GreyICE]

Vote: UT

Fucking scum is trying to figure out who the fucking doctor is. That's literally the only way I can read the above. Fuck it, fuck this reread, that was the scummiest post in the fucking thread, the end.

[GreyICE]

@UK: Scum are going to be the only ones who know who the NK on (or whether or not it was submitted). So imagine we start speculating about who might have been killed. Any speculation, ANY SPECULATION gives them an opportunity to figure out who is thinking like a doctor. I've NEVER seen the idea that we start speculating on who the fucking night kill was in a doctor protect come from confused, annoyed scum, or very, very newbie town.

I can think of a lot of motivations for that post.

1) WIFOM the town about any doctor claim (they no-NKed to lay the groundwork for a doctor fakeclaim)
2) Try and psychology catch a doctor
3) Distract from scumhunting with pointless WIFOM speculation (is there doctor? Bulletproof? Did they "no-NK?")
4) Try and fish night action claims out of people to find power roles

Just NONE OF THESE MOTIVATIONS ARE FUCKING TOWN.

[GreyICE]

SHUT UP UT. DON'T FUCKING LIE AND SAY YOU DIDN'T WANT TO DISCUSS THE NIGHT KILL WHEN YOU FUCKING SAID 'LETS ALL TALK ABOUT WHAT SCUM COULD GAIN FROM NOT NIGHT KILLING.' WHAT RESPONSES ARE YOU GOING TO GET? LIKE: PERSON X SAID "WELL, IF SCUM WERE GOING TO NIGHT KILL, Y IS THE MOST TOWNIE," AND THAT'S WHO WE DID SUBMIT THE KILL ON! PERSON Z SAID 'I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU'RE DISMISSING THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE DOCTOR JUST HAS THE SCUM READ.' OOH, LOOK, WE'RE DOWN TO A FIELD OF 2 DOCTOR POSSIBILITIES KEKEKEKEKE.

THERE IS NO FUCKING MOTIVATION FOR DISCUSSING ANYTHING ABOUT THE FUCKING MATTER AT ALL. UK, YOU MAY BE WORSE FOR SUPPORTING THIS ASININE NOTION. AT LEAST ONE OF YOU IS SCUM AND I AM GODDAMN FUCKING LIGHTING THINGS ON FIRE UNTIL I FIGURE OUT WHICH.

HERE'S MY SUMMARY OF LAST NIGHT:

THERE IS NO SK
THERE IS NO NIGHT VIG
IT FUCKING CAUGHT US SCUM, THANKS TRIPOD.

[GreyICE]

UK, there is a lot to be gained from speculating on who the scum decided to kill. Did they kill this person because they're power role hunting? Because the person suspected them? You can at least learn the mindset of the scum team (which is going to be the mindset of its dominant player(s)) - are they cautious? Risk takers? Do they like to play games, or play it safe? It's interesting stuff.

THERE IS NO MOTIVATION FOR SPECULATING ABOUT A NO-KILL EXCEPT TO OUT A FUCKING DOCTOR. JESUS CHRISTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

[GreyICE]

Seriously. Kitten. Give me something. Give me a reason to do this.

GIVE ME A FUCKING MOTIVATION EXCEPT TO OUT OUR POWER ROLES. YOU ARE NOT WALKING AWAY FROM THIS ONE WITH A 'WELL, WE'LL HAVE TO AGREE TO DISAGREE.' NO YOU ARE FUCKING NOT. YOU AND UT ARE ANSWERING FOR THIS.

[GreyICE]

All right. The wisdom on speculating on a no kill is mostly in the event you assume it wasn't a doctor. Granted, the length of my speculation only extends to "I wonder if CD has a penalty for his vig"

You of course don't try to speculate about doctors/who they protected.

So what, he has a power like "can use the NK as a day kill?" And that entire song and dance with the

davig:

was just a song and dance? I want to believe that, I really do. But how does it fit with SCUMPOD GOING ROLEFISHING? Scumpod and CooLDoG cooked THIS plan up in the quickthread?

Occam's Razor:

NK got aborted by doctor or bulletproof, scum is going fishing to figure out what happened.

[GreyICE]

IT WASN'T HARD FOR ME. YOU MADE IT COMPLETELY CLEAR WHO SCUM WAS.

[GreyICE]

MAKE IT EASY FOR ME. EXPLAIN HOW YOUR SUGGESTION COULD POSSIBLY DO ANYTHING TO HELP THE TOWN. ANYTHING AT ALL, EVER, IN ANY REALITY OR ANY UNIVERSE. DON'T KEEP INSULTING ME OR TELLING ME TO CALM DOWN, JUST EXPLAIN WHAT POSSIBLE, PRO-TOWN MOTIVATION THERE WAS. YOU ARE FUCKING SCUMPLAINING AND TRYING TO GET OUT OF THIS BY ACTING HURT AND ATTACKING ME.

YOU HAVE MODERATED GAMES ON THIS SITE. YOU HAVE PLAYED IN QUITE A FEW GAMES ON THIS SITE. YOU ARE NOT NEWBIEXYZ IN THE NEWBIE THREAD. I READ THE GAMES OF PEOPLE I AM PLAYING WITH. DO NOT WIFOM ME ABOUT HOW SCUM WOULD 'KNOW BETTER THAN ACT SCUMMY.' YOUR REACTION WASN'T THAT OF TOWN, IT WAS THE REACTION OF SCUM WHO WAS CAUGHT OFF GUARD AND FISHING FOR WHAT FUCKED UP THE PLAN.

IT MIGHT BE THE FIRST HONEST REACTION WE GOT OUT OF YOU ALL GAME. BUT WE FUCKING GOT IT.

[GreyICE]

I don't see the rolefishing. And hilariously enough, scum don't tend to rolefish. It's HELPFUL to them, but it's one of those weird things where most of the time a townie will rolefish. Of course, it's possible there's an exception.

I've completed two games on this site. Lets see:

we need to decide if we think that day killing role is Vig or SK

it's pretty obvious who the day killer is unless I am completely off base, at first I thought it was llama by the way he kept talking about it but than after he suggested it could be a SK instead of a vig I realized it wasn't him anymore and found it pretty easy.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=100

Oh look. He fucking flipped scum. What a huge fucking surprise. My other completed game was a newbie game with a town win in the 7:2 mountainous setup, so you do the math on the scumplay there. Some of the ongoings... yeah, it happens. Quite a bit.

[GreyICE]

Yeah, more fucking complaining and insults. No fucking explanation for the asinine idea that the scum would give us a free lynch for some sort of insane benefit. Continued insistence that discussing the theory of the night kill won't give the scum any insight into protector roles.

UT, you're trying to get out of this by insulting me repeatedly. Which shows me how fucking flustered you are, because the moderator told us specifically to

stop fucking doing that.

You directly, clearly, and completely failed to do the one thing a townie might do:

Offer a convincing explanation for how the discussion you said you wanted would help the town.

More fucking insults. More whining. Shifting the blame to Kitten. But no fucking explanation of how your discussion helped the town. You know why I think that is? You can't come up with one. This hit too quickly. You realized there IS no TOWN motivation for your discussion. It doesn't help the town. It would never help the town. Not one single thing we would discuss in this hypothetical wankery would help the town.

I am fucking done here. You can come in here tomorrow, and think up some cool explanation. You can come in here five minutes from now, and think up some explanation. It does not matter. I directly and clearly asked you how your idea helped the town. And you had no response. Any response you think up after this is just that - a response you

thought up after the fact.

There was no pro-town reasoning in your mind when you made the post. My vote is not moving unless someone hard claims scum in thread.

[GreyICE]

UK, it was a terrible idea, and supporting it is terrible. That doesn't

NECESSARILY

make it scum. Plenty of town have TERRIBLE ideas. You're not wrong about that.

Not having a single reason that it was GOOD for the town? I mean every terrible idea has a terrible chain of logic behind it. People don't just do things for no goddamn reason. Your theory that CD turned the NK into a daykill is lultastic, but at least it's a reason, of sorts... of sorts. (should I put FOS here? Also, lets stop discussing the dumb idea of lynching CD).

[GreyICE]

He's town, last post just proved it. So no more CD shit.

[GreyICE]

Hey, wait a second, I launched no personal insults today. Attack people for scummy play and being obvscum? Sure. But I ain't losing us this by getting modkilled.

UT can get himself modkilled, saves a lynch and day continues, profit!

[GreyICE]

Rule D2. Or whatever your faction's penalty will be, maybe you lose another NK or something.

At this point I think you should stop talking about who will or will not get Modkilled for actions. That's my call and really isn't germaine to the Mafia game itself.

Mina, I'm 90% we can stick CD into the town category. I want people to stop needling him pronto, poking at nigh confirmed town on day 2 is stupid. Also, can you tell me why GhostWriter is town? He's not on my list of town reads tbh. Which yes, I won't be handing out too often.

And yeah, I want AlmasterGM in here. I know he had some magical hoodoo that we can't discuss, but he also had some TOP SEKRET PLANZ and frankly his entire 'fucking mysterious' act is really fucking getting to me. Zang can show up or not for all I care - past instances of his posting have not actually shed any light on any issue ever. Has this thread really been open less than 24 hours?

[GreyICE]

Yeah, the one that may or may not have triggered the mod note to the town? I'm starting to think you ain't even paying attention to this game. You're really not distracting me here, and I don't think I'm sold that you're distracting anyone else.

Guys, I hope you have a reaaallll good case as to why someone else is the goddamn lynch, because right now? Not seeing it.

[GreyICE]

Fuck it, I have all sorts of speculation about the setup right now, but the only thing I plan to reveal about it is that if CooLDoG is scum that's a fucking excellent fakeclaim because it matches my speculation.

Katsuki was a Roleblocker, not a Jailkeep btw.

[GreyICE]

Oh. Anyway, she stated that she needed to post in the thread to use her Jailkeeper powers. So they're very very likely to be 1-shot.

Is this going in a useful direction, or are we just futzing around because we're waiting for more fucking lurkers to show up?

[GreyICE]

Okay, that's fair enough. I'm not overly thrilled about the Roleblocker claiming at this point though. Huh. Well I'll leave it up to them if they want to claim it, breadcrumb it in case they flip, or leave it for tomorrow. How people want to use and breadcrumb their powers is up to them.

Last setup thought: I have a night power and a day power. My day power is a 1-shot governor, and using it disables my night power in exactly the way CooLDoG described. That leads me to believe Kats did the exact same thing with hers. I don't have a real problem claiming this, because I think Governor is a horrible, anti-town ability and have no real intention of using it unless some one could give me a great fucking reason to. Its use in MPM [Redacted - Ongoing] and I've never seen it help the town anywhere else either. My night power is much, much cooler, but I'm not going into it today.

So, we're done. Lets wait for AGM and fucking Zang.

[GreyICE]

Oh fuck. Uh, sorry guys, didn't mean to post that, that's my thought pattern on why CooLDoG is town. Okay, yeah.

No one fucking claim.

VI: GreyICE for being fucking stupid on painkillers.

[GreyICE]

Can we put both of them out of our misery, please?

[GreyICE]

AGM claimed some fucking voodoo garbage cleared Zang. I wasn't there for this, but on a general scale from 1-10 where 1 is "enough not to make him the day 1 lynch" and 10 is "Mod-confirmed town" how good was that?

[GreyICE]

Ugh. On the one hand, I want Zang alive at LyLo like I want red hot needles shoved under my fingernails.

On the other hand, I'd rather lynch scum. Some of my stronger scumreads have spent the last two days fucking sniping at Zang, and while that could be bussing, it could be their 'easy target.' I have this visual of us lynching Zang, having him flip town, then having the fucking town lynch AGM at some point because neighbors are 'always town-scum' and listening to scum laughing all the way to the win.

If Mina or another strong townread who was there is willing to tell me 'fuck that noise, it wasn't very convincing, vote Zang' I can be persuaded to switch my vote, but I'm thinking this is a lynch on fucking terribad town.

[GreyICE]

GI, if ANYONE in this town tries to outguess the mod on neighbors, I am SO going to be pissed. That'd be utterly dicktarded.

And you don't trust me, GI? That's nice to know.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say specifically what it was so you can decide though...

Just where do you stand on me, GI? That's never been particularly CLEAR, you see.

I thought you were scum day 1. Then I thought you were town. Now? I still think town, but Zang being your vote of the three was like... what? You had an entire case on StrangerCoug built day 1. And guess what? Since then he's hard claimed "copy editor," "totally incomprehensible," and "really fucking prickly." Woohoo. LMP has done jack shit except lurk, try to get CooLDoG to vig you lamely, tunnel you lamely, and lurk. Zang has just done fucking jack shit and fucking scummily too. Every time someone calls him on it he lazily fucking nips at them a bit and then yells at someone random and goes back to lurking. And frankly Tripod seems to be trying to throw suspicion on everyone EXCEPT you, who he fucking scumbuddies pretty much most of day 1. "Superbusser" for Tripod? He puts little disclaimers before half his reads going "well, this is probably wrong or something, teehee" while doing his day 1 lists.

I'm finding a lot wrong with the analysis, which is why I want an unbiased third party. GhostWriter is probably town, but he reads more null than town to me, and frankly I trust Mina's opinion.

I'm ready to have my socks knocked off by AGM.

[GreyICE]

To be more specific, of the four of those, I have no fucking reason to think any is town EXCEPT Zang. And that one actually seemed pretty concrete. So the vote on him is like... okay.

[GreyICE]

Don't mind you asking at all, I'm no sort of alt. I'm not inexperienced with Mafia, I've played on MTGS - which is a generally lower level of play, but not dramatically lower (higher noise level from random newbs wandering in, and the moderation is terrible). But I don't know any of the people here, which is why I review so many games. I have very few ways to get reads on higher level players since I am just not used to their gameplay.

And sorry about the soft claim, I was rocking the migraine/pain medication combo this weekend, and my posting was wonktastic as a result. I've been thinking CD was town because of this shit governor power and how it works, and it just ran the fuck out there.

[GreyICE]

I'm waiting for AGM's post, because I'm still wearing socks. I was promised that I wouldn't be wearing socks, and I still am. I want my bare feet goddamn it!

[GreyICE]

Wait a second. Wait one second. Your QT has daytalk? You mean that the scum can daytalk?

Fuck, this challenges a lot of my assumptions about what might be going on.

[GreyICE]

Shit. I had a whole long post and I deleted it because I just found an enormous fucking hole in AGM's post. And now I can't comment anything I wanted to.

Lets assume the following occurred:

1) Katsuki used her power
2) Scum submitted a kill on AGM
3) Zang is scum

Does this sequence add up? Lets see:

1) Katsuki used her power? Lets examine this claim.

Wednesday, Feb 09, 10:53 AM

Either way, if you guys are gonna end up lynching me, give me warning. I'll be on later to use my ability to hopefully disable a scum from using the QT tonight.

Wednesday, Feb 09, 11:40 AM

Sigh I know. I sicken myself with my play as of late. Hence why I'm in only 2 games now (including this one), and not joining any new ones.
I was overdue for retirement a few weeks ago as my head hasn't properly been in mafia, but thought I could stick it out for this game. Evidently I was wrong.

Wednesday, Feb 09, 2:40 PM (3 hours later), from Uncertain Tripod:

ok, fuck this honkey noise
vote Katsuki

I see NO EVIDENCE that Katsuki submitted her power. Mine uses the thread. CDs uses the thread. Even assuming Katsuki did NOT use the thread, I don't see any evidence from 2:40 that the power was used.

2) The scum sent the kill after AGM

Really? Lets examine this one in detail. AGM was blocked from the QT. Therefore he could say NOTHING to Zang. Now, we're supposed to believe that Zang is sitting there, claimed roleblocker. And AGM says nothing to him, all night. And he reports this to his scum buddies. And they decide to shoot AGM? I mean really? Katsuki's ability was JUST CLAIMED. And look what she posted:

OH AND NOW UR REPLACING OUT
BYE SCUM.
MoI seems like a nice guy. Let's save him the trouble of finding a replacement by LYNCHING THE CLAIMED SCUM. Yee?

As much as I love you, I'll hate you for all eternity if you actually are town.

AGM was her single top scumread going out. No matter how bad her play was, she knows the drill - on day 1 you Jailkeep on to lock down scum reads, not to protect town reads. He says NOTHING in the QT all night to Zang and... what? They decide to submit a shot on him anyway? The only person who would have the least little idea that Katsuki submitted her power would be Zang - no talking from AGM. And AGM just claimed to be

constantly

berating Zang. If he didn't post a single thing that night, then... what? Why would they do this? If that's the case, and Zang flips scum I'm just picking the biggest fucking idiots in the entire thread and lynching them sequentially.

But this entire thing does not add up. It does not add up at all. Something is very,

very

wrong here.

I want some more comments on this, right the hell now. Mariyta is willing to go along with this, GW is going along with this, everyone seems very very happy to say that this is what happened. Maybe it did happen that way. Maybe Katsuki submitted the roleblock sometime after the 11:40 post and UT's hammer and then posted nothing in thread. Maybe the entire scumteam is just that brain dead. Maybe they were all like 'herp derp, well, AGM isn't saying anything, lets just kill the loser and remove the one person arguing scum-Zang is town.'

MAYBE.

But I am not lynching a town roleblocker no matter how fucking worthless because of a case with holes this big in it. I agree we're hitting the point of 'power role saturation' unless the scum have magical miracle abilities they haven't goddamn used yet, but Jesus fucking Christ this theory of AGM's is bad. I think the worst part is him inserting himself into the hero role that miraculously blocked the night kill.

[GreyICE]

Now I want to pressure TWO DIFFERENT people. And only one of them is Zang.

We need answers, because this one is not town-town. This one is not town-town at all. Something reeks of scum around here.

[GreyICE]

Oh UK, don't get me wrong, I am noticing LMP, but this takes such screaming precedence right now. Zang is fucking scummy as shit, but AGM just flipped a 180. A complete fucking 180. He went from defending Zang yesterday with his 'top sekret planz' to wanting Zang lynched.

If Zang is scum, then I'll believe all sorts of things (well except UT's bus theory, because the neighbor claim is gonna look reaaaaalllll interesting when one of them doesn't flip neighbor (smart bus was smart!), but if Zang is town, then AGM is scum, and one of the people who just hopped on the Zang wagon innocently is scum. I can really, really see why scum want a town roleblocker to claim target, and lets face it, Zang wasn't gonna claim jack shit if he's not talking to AGM in the QT.

I am not accepting a dismount at this point. I am not letting this one go. I am not going after the aptly-named LynchMePlease. I am getting to the bottom of this

right.

now.

The level of coordination possible from Daytalking scum is EXTREME. I am NOT wandering off topic and letting this one slip because something is shiny.

PEDIT: AlmasterGM, I don't give a frogs ass if you tell me it's wrong. I want to know why it's wrong. On the other hand, if your report from inside the QT is ANYWHERE near accurate, then Zang is close to triggering the same epic rage I felt at CooLDoG. But why is what I wrote wrong?

[GreyICE]

You posted a picture of a BUS! BUSSING someone is when you're on a scum team and you THROW YOUR SCUMBUDDY UNDER A BUS. HOW CAN YOU NOT KNOW THIS?!?

[GreyICE]

Okay, see, here's the fucking thing AGM. I'm not arguing Katsuki's dayplay was any good at all, because it was shit. But from the perspective of shit dayplay, did Kats submit the Jailkeep and just not mention it to us, or not submit it at all before that wonderful UT hammer? I don't know. And don't tell me "I know because I told you!" That first post made it look like Kats still thought there was a chance of escaping the hammer. The second just seemed honest about his(?) dayplay.

Second, stop telling me I'm flipping my story around because I'm noting inconsistencies. AT THE MOMENT I HAVE NO STORY. Period. NONE! I HAVE NO FUCKING STORY. I AM TELLING YOU THAT YOURS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME.

1) Zang is a moron.
2) He could have been V/LA.
3) Maybe I was just V/LA, or something. he couldn't know.
4) You just said yourself that KATSUKI DIDNT ANNOUNCE USING HIS ABILITY. SO FIRST YOUR STORY IS, "OH, AGM IS LYING ABOUT BEING TARGETED" and then your story is "OH ITS SO OBVIOUS THAT AGM WAS TARGETED." YOU CANT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.
5) Secret tech that you are not allowed to know at this juncture.

This reasoning is shit. I stated that we first assume Katsuki used the Jailkeep ability on you with PM. Even then, you want this heroread that the night kill was submitted on you.

The only logical reason I can see is that if it were true, it would confirm you town (barring weird setup shit).

ALSO, FUCK YOUR SUPER SECRET TECH I AM NOT FUCKING LISTENING TO YOU AND I AM NOT FUCKING BELIEVING YOU. YESTERDAY IT TOLD US ZANG WAS TOWN. TODAY HE IS SCUM. YOUR TECH IS BROKEN.

PEDIT: WTF LMP? UK, I need to start listening to you more often.

[GreyICE]

I have a theory now. The theory is simple.

ZANG GET YOUR FUCKING ASS IN HERE AND TELL US WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON IN THAT QT AND WHAT YOU DID LAST NIGHT. FUCKING NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW. I AM NOT WAITING WHEN SCUM HAVE DAYTALK.

[GreyICE]

AGM, I don't fucking care what you think is incredibly scummy at this point. I really don't.

[GreyICE]

Actually, GI, can I second AGM's request? Either that or an outline of a third option?

I honestly want to prefer Zang to be scum and AGM to be town, but I keep being held back by the fact that AGM wants to be town so very, very badly. He's the hero who saved us from the night kill. He's bringing us the head of Zang the terribad. He was unjustly targeted by Katsuki, the ONLY PERSON IN THE ENTIRE GAME WHO THOUGHT HE WAS SCUMLOLOLOLOL.

I don't get why there's this pressure on me to move from him. Do you want me to vote Zang? I won't until we know who he roleblocked. If he does flip town, that's fairly useful fucking knowledge. And no, AGM, frankly I don't trust you to accurately report who he roleblocked if he flips town. I don't even trust what he said in the QT to be accurate, for all we know he forgot to submit a roleblock target (it'd be fairly fucking typical) Do you want me to guess what's happening in the QT? I imagine AGM harassing Zang and Zang lurking like shit is fairly fucking accurate, but is there any details we're missing?

I don't want Zang quicklynched. Wanna know why I jumped on the Katsuki thing so fast? I have been mulling over what to think of the 6 hour before deadline hammer. I just don't understand it. There was no reason not to leave that 6 hour window for Katsuki to use the ability before the deadline lynch to kick in. Really, if it was some scum claim whatever ability Kats wanted to use would have been long fired. What, we have to wait 6 whole extra hours to the thread to open? I'm very happy to believe a scum Zang. I love it when scum are posting like garbage and town are making interesting, detailed, posts with really solid hunting in them. But it feels like I'm being handed him on a silver platter with a nice bow all tied up and ready for me to eat.

I just am in no hurry to put my vote on him, and I don't get why AGM is pushing me. There is

NO

protown reason not to wait for Zang to at least tell us his Roleblocker target. The case AGM posted gives me the heebie-jeebies. I might be out here making an apology post tomorrow because we lynch Zang and he flips scum. I'm fine with that if it means that we DON'T lynch a townie roleblocker without even hearing his target after a no-NK.

PEDIT: And suddenly posts!

[GreyICE]

...and I probably shouldn't have been so mean about it. Sorry. I've not had a good past 15 minutes. My dad is a raging fuckass and it's not doing much for my mood.

I'm sorry about that UK. I don't really miss situations like that at all. I won't say it gets better... but eventually you move out! Which... isn't very helpful for you right now

===============================================================
It occurs to me I just might be fairly paranoid because my scumreads on Katsuki and Fitz were completely wrong. Maybe today it is just that simple. I really do hope that Zang comes in here and does his usual show with useless quote walls with one whole sentence added, then buggers out again. And then he flips Mafia Roleblocker Neighbor, and I have to apologize to AGM, and he yells at me and calls me the village idiot, which I'm starting to feel like because I just think that I'm missing something here. And I can't put my finger on what. I've done rereads of the latter half of day 1 and the initial Zang wagon, and I haven't found whatever it is.

[GreyICE]

@GI: What happened to it being good for scum to know who Zang roleblocked?

I also would like the answer as AGM is pressing. It feels like you're evading the question.

In one sentence? If the deadline was coming in 10 minutes, both were at L-1, and I had to pull the trigger? I'd lynch Zang in a heartbeat. His play has been atrocious AND scummy. AGM has been moderately to strongly pro-town. The only reason I didn't come in here gunning for Zang was that AGM confirmed him town with neighbor hanky-panky, at least from what I understood of the situation.

Based on the information I have right now, I'd say Zang scum, AGM town.

Now is that fucking sufficient AGM? Are you happy? Will you get off me for not eating every single case that is pushed my way without even questioning it?

[GreyICE]

AGM, AKR has been in the back of my mind for a while regarding GI.

@GI: What happened to it being good for scum to know who Zang roleblocked?

Also, that doesn't answer AGM's question. Can you use his two options OR produce a third?

I don't mind you questioning, but I do mind you evading.

If Zang is town, it's good for the scum to know have him dead. NKs work, lynches are better because then they get to NK a different player to get a power role in a town that is apparently LOUSY WITH THEM. If AGM is scum, then he'd be gunning for the Zang lynch to remove that WIFOM from the scumteam and get a roleblocker who they might have lost control of permanently out of the way.

Yes. That's initially how I read it. But Zang's fucking response to AGM in the quickthread (which I don't think AGM made up, because it would be insanely suicidal to do if Zang flips town) and the FACT THAT THE SCUM HAVE DAYTALK has changed this faster and faster towards Zang being scum and waiting for orders and direction from someone.

PEDIT: AGM - what the fuck. What the fucking fuck.

[GreyICE]

No, seriously, AGM, that's the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard. I said that I don't see good evidence that Katsuki submitted her power. That does not mean "OMG SHE DEFINITELY 100% DIDN'T SUBMIT HER POWER OMG FUCKING LOLZ ETC ETC ETC" It's been one of the FIRST THINGS that bugged me about the UT hammer, it's been one of the things I've been waiting to see who picked up, it's been one of my interesting facts about this game.

You're a fucking obnoxious player who treats anyone questioning them like a personal insult. Apparently we're all supposed to role into this thread and suck your dick every time you post.

Fuck you, asshole.

[GreyICE]

AGM, I don't have to explain away the contradiction, because there is no fucking contradiction. I don't see any evidence that Katsuki used her power. Maybe Katsuki's power uses PM when mine and CooLDoG's uses the thread, and she did use it without giving any indication. THAT'S WHAT I SAID IN MY POST. As you noted, it's not like her play was FUCKING STELLAR or anything like that. So it happened that way, sure, fine.

I am just saying that I don't fucking 100% buy your version of events.

As for who told me scum has Daytalk, you did. Neighbors and masons are usually restricted to talking at night, which I assumed to be the case right up until you mentioned you could chat with Zang in your QT DURING THE DAY. If you can do it, scum can do it, unless there's like two sets of rules on when you can chat in the QT.

And as for my personal review of you, it's because of the fact that you seriously treat absolutely everyone who doesn't IMMEDIATELY agree with you as scum. At least UK just, as she says, attacks the people who attack her. You're probably fucking town, but I reserve the right to question your better judgment, your scumreads, you playstyles, your cases, and your facts to get to the truth of the matter. If that makes me scum to you I. don't. bloody. care.

[GreyICE]

Okay, fuck it, whatever. I'm going with plan A:

Zang gets the fuck into the thread and tells us, no beating around the bush or cuteness EXACTLY who he targeted last night, what he's doing, and what he thinks of AGM.

Then we most likely lynch him and I can deal with this stressful, ridiculous game tomorrow.


P.S. I'm actually glad AGM's super secret tech was a trap on me. If it was ANOTHER fucking power role, I was going to flip a shit.

[GreyICE]

@GI: Still waiting for a response from you on the RB target question.

I changed my mind for two reasons.

The first is because if AGM is scum, then there'd be no reason for him to even ask out here when he could just ask in the QT anyway. And Zang's probably told him in the QT if he's town, unless he just lurked his way past it. So that's just right out the window

The second is that I see a lot of benefit for the scum lynching the town roleblocker at this point in time. The way I saw it, AGM making that gambit to find out if Zang targeted a scumbuddy or it was something else was a perfect way for them to lynch a power role that had contributed nothing to the game without drawing suspicion on themselves.

I'd still prefer if we didn't lynch a town roleblocker, overall. But I just don't see how we can avoid lynching Zang after him running off on AGM which, as I said, I don't see AGM making up, and I'm getting very tired of his lurking ass. I do feel like he's waiting for orders from someone, and the longer we sit here the higher chance someone logs onto the QT and gives them to him. Every minute that passes is another minute for someone else to log on and post for him, another minute for someone to tell him what to do and feed him arguments. And if he's scum he's going to need someone feeding him arguments.

PEDIT: AGM, I already fucking softclaimed this weekend while arguing that CooLDoG was town because I was floating on painkillers during my migraine. So yep, it was fucking stupid etc. etc., but way to bring it up now.

PEDIT 2: OH MY GOD IT POSTS. AND I HAVE QUESTIONS

[GreyICE]

UT was active lurking, I'm not.

I haven't literally facepalmed in a while.

When I first saw her vote, I didn't see your question. LMP I am a still mildly suspicious of but most of my suspicion disappeared when he replaced in, Katsuki is dead and UT started posting content.

So you have no scum reads at all, except apparently Mariyta. Dare I ask what prompted this, besides our offhand comments about you naming an 'easy target' that you roleblocked? Dare I even ask what made you make that choice last night?

This seriously feels more like a scum choice for power role hunting than a good choice for a roleblock.

AGM did not post at all last night. Day 1 we were discussing a master plan that he had to catch scum and he told me to vote Katsuki at deadline. Day 2 he said that Katsuki targetted him and then suddenly started interrogating me.

*sigh*

Well, that's exactly what AGM said. No startling revelations out of this one. Honestly, I'm a little disappointed. Maybe it's the mysterious allure of Quicktopics, but I was hoping there'd be some master plan to gambit, maybe some sort guide to your night roleblocking that would tell us who AGM said his scum suspects were, something. If that's the

only

fucking thing in the QT, then this entire line of questioning was a waste of time.

I still think that AGM is town

although not as strongly as before.

Really Zang? Really? Oh it's fun to have a chance to hold your feet to the fire. So what makes him 'not as strongly as before' to you, besides his case against you? Anything? Anything at all? Anything at all whatsoever? Or is this just doomed to be another cryptic post with not a lick of common sense or reasoning behind it?

[GreyICE]

Oh poo.

@Mod: Can you fix quote tags?

Done.

[GreyICE]

Okay, fine. This is probably bloody masochism and a waste of our time, but I'm going to ask Zang some questions about the last few days, and I want him to bloody answer. As I grilled the fuck out of AGM, call this the spirit of fairness. This is more likely a bloody-minded exercise in seeing if he slips and outs any of his scumbuddies than something that will help the town, but... oh well. We're not deadline lynching today, oh that is very for certain.

Zang:

Since you claim to be

following this game closely

do you have

any

comments about the past few days?

1)

What do you think about Mina's suspicion that one of the claimed power roles was scum? This has stuck with me since she made the point. We have, if you and AGM are town, like you say you believe:

- A pair of town neighbors - one of whom is a roleblocker, the other of whom is vanilla: so we have town neighbors with a self-contained power role, and one of the neighbors could claim the actions of the power role for the other neighbor - both giving the thread the night actions, and leaving the thread with a dead vanilla when he gets NKed for his trouble. (And AGM wonders when I was ready to flip a shit when I thought he was softclaiming another PR into that pair...)

- Katsuki (confirmed town)
- CooLDoG
- Me (confirmed idiot when migraine)

To that we've outed 1 non-power role in the thread. That would either make us the unluckiest fucking town alive, or some of these power roles really aren't. At the moment, the most likely is that you are scum roleblocker. Why is this reasoning bad, and is there anything you want to add?

2)

If LMP, SC, and UT (and lets throw in GhostWriter too, after Mina's last post) were to all die tomorrow and flip town, who would be your top two scumpicks from the rest of the town and why?

3)

Do you think that anything about your gameplay has helped us catch scum? WHAT? If you care so bloody much about this game, why have you done nothing?

4)

Is there any other goddamn thoughts you'd like to share with us before we lynch you? Any at all?


Well here ends a bloody pointless waste of my time. I want the answers to this for some undetermined reason, but I'm fine with voting, hammering, whatever. I have this dirty suspicion that tomorrow we'll have lynched and vigged a third townie, but Zang puts just not one jot of effort into not being amazing fucking obvscum. It's funny because from a role perspective, from a flavor perspective, from AGM's voodoo, I have no reason to believe he's scum, but from the perspective of play, CooLDoG has put a thousand times the effort into this game than Zang. I might not love the results, but at least he is present, reasoning, and doing things.

Zang, if you truly are town, make an effort and give us some sort of

really cool insight

, and maybe I won't make it a point of policy to avoid games with you in them. Hell, just maybe even a piece of information I overlooked, or something and I won't policy avoid you. Just show me that when you put some effort into it, you can tell me something that is new or interesting, something I really don't know.

If you are scum, congratulations on staying alive past a vig and a lynch yesterday and mindgaming AGM into thinking you were town with the worst fucking play I've seen outside of a newbie game - although that's probably more a testament to how abominably scummy our townies were than anything you did.

[GreyICE]

Sigh. Italics instead of caps, how does it work?

And still no answers. Going to sleep now, I guess.

I'm going to have to see this QT after the game is over, it must be the lamest thing in human history.

[GreyICE]

I'd rather have you use your time to tell me if I'm totally wrong about AGM :/

I just have this impression that it is very, very important that me and everyone else to agree he's captain townman of the townsville squad But Zang is total obvscum without the neighbor timing claim from AGM. If it weren't for that neighbor claim, I'd completely believe that this was a scum-scum fight. AGM doesn't do this in other games, I've read them.

Everything I hypothesize is totally nonsensical and I'm probably guilty over overthinking things. Have the obvscum answer some questions to see if he fingers his buddies, lynch him, mine his posts for data, and move on

[GreyICE]

...

...I need to stop doing that.

...I...I was mainly just trying to give LMP a kick in the pants to step his game up...

...What is it with me and that slot?

If it's any help, you told him the truth imho

Mariyta - you're probably right. If I had to pick my worst flaw, it's over-analysis. Sometimes the obvious answer is true.

PEDIT: No, UK, I said I was lynching one of Zang or AGM today, and Zang has decided that that will be him. The answers are just juicy WIFOM cupcakes with a side of my gut at this point.

[GreyICE]

Yeah, seriously, Zang. Lets do that.

Gimme one good reason that you'd choose to roleblock Mari and not StrangerCoug, who is apparently your STRONGEST OMG SCUM READ.

If you answer the rest of the questions, fine, awesome, but lets see if there's even a reason here.

[GreyICE]

*twitch*

Targeting SC with WHAT?

[GreyICE]

This setup is starting to actually hurt my brain. I've gone down paths in my head I never wanted to go.

[GreyICE]

Yeah, nevermind, I don't want you to roleclaim here. It's just like... durrrrrrrrrrrr, another PR?

Maybe the flavor is that all of the Mafia are immune to some of our PRs? Like can't be trackered/watchered, or can kill through protection, or are immune to roleblocks or something?

The only other thing that makes sense is a Serial Killer, which is what I was guessing up until the NO NK THING. That would take the scum AND SK kill being intercepted, which would officially bring this game to epic lulz

[GreyICE]

Or.

Or I needed to turn on my computer to post this.

Or I'm not going crazy and my gut rocks the house.

Zang: Did AGM claim Vigilante to you in the QT? Yes/No ONLY. No desire to know if he claimed ANYTHING other than that or I guess poisoner

[GreyICE]

Oh and don't let him say "Lie to ICE, he's obvscum rolefishing" or ANYTHING of the sort.

ANYTHING.

Just yes/no, did he claim Vig?

[GreyICE]

This is ridiculous. We're sitting here waiting for two replacements and a guy who flat out refuses to play (or at least play in a somewhat acceptable manner). This is totally screwing over the players who are here to play and actually want to play.

UNVOTE: UT, VOTE: Zang He needs to go.

Unvote. Now. Let Zang answer. One word, two or three letters. Yes. Or. No.

I'm not even disagreeing he's scum, but that's soooo not the issue.

[GreyICE]

LOL

Not really. You told me yourself when you beat the townie drum. You told me yourself with an argument designed to get Zang quicklynched. You told me yourself when you backed off Zang and went after me when it became apparent we wouldn't quicklynch Zang. You told me yourself when you told me 'Manga of Illusion likes interesting setups.' What's so interesting about a town-scum neighbor pair? Nothing. Nothing at all.

Katsuki knew you. Bless her heart, however horrible, lousy, no good, very bad her day 1 play was, she made 1 read. Just one.

AGM IS THE

SERIAL KILLER

The pair is SCUM-SCUM. AGM was scared on day 1 that a Zang townflip would put attention on himself. He didn't consider a scum-scum neighbor pair. Look at his talk about interesting setups. Why is there any talk of interesting setups? He's laying the ground for his vig fakeclaim (oh, it's an "interesting setup").

Yeah, bullshit. Even with Zang being the scum roleblocker, a 1-shot vig/tracker, a vigilante neighbor, a Redirector/Jailkeep, and more? A possible cop (although a miller without a cop wouldn't shock me, that one is getting old hat). I don't fucking believe that. I don't know Kdub, but we're supposed to believe that a basic 10:3 gives the town all of this when Faraday, Seacore, and Nikanor reviewed it?

Bullshit. The last mini I was in was 10:3. There was a pair of neighbors, a pair of masons, and a 2-shot dayvig. And the mafia had a power role (2-shot rolecop) and daytalk. The town swept it easy and might have been slightly too strong. This in a 10:3? Total. Fucking. Bullshit.

[GreyICE]

Oh really. Lets go with your argument and assume I'm scum and Zang is scum (which I am now CERTAIN that he is). Where does this leave the town if you're the vigilante?

CooLDoG:

1-shot vig/Tracker

AlmasterGM:

Town Vigilante/Neighbor

Katsuki:

Town Jailkeeper/Redirector

Against what? A scum roleblocker and what else? My governor ability somehow tips the balance for the scumteam? Go back to the player list. Knock me off it, Knock 1 off it for the third scumteam member, and knock Zang off it because he's obvscum.

By my count that leaves six townies who haven't claimed anything at all. They're all fucking vanilla and we just happened to wagon up TWO DIFFERENT POWER ROLES ON DAY 1 BY COINCIDENCE?

No. Fucking. Way. I am not outing a single other power role, we have what we need here. I don't even want to know it, just think about it. Are you a power role that's not outed? Slot your role into this setup in your head. Then imagine what sort of 10:3 setup we'd have to be in for this level of power to be sane.

[GreyICE]

AGM is the serial killer. He proved it to me last page. Why back off Zang just because Zang asked him before he outed his role last page? There's no town reason, if he thinks Zang is scum. Scum knows he's the vigilante - he said so himself. And what did Zang say? Ask the power role before outing him, and that suddenly makes him town? Jesus christ, AGM is smarter than that. Zang's already outed his power role to the scumteam if he's scum - AGM said so himself. There'd be NO REASON for Zang not to ask him before outing him, town or scum.

And frankly, there's no fucking way that change of heart reads genuine, go read it. The hop right back to SC? Suuuuurreeeeeeeeeee. Then he NKs me, and what? Zang's going to lurk and freak out because his scum play is apparently total fucking crap, so the rest of the town quicklynches Zang, and then he can float to the endgame, with his bullshitty vig claim never outed.

FUCKING NONSENSE.

UK: I have a Power Role related objection, and I have a FUCKING TOWN RELATED OBJECTION. AGM IS THE FUCKING SERIAL KILLER I AM NOT LETTING HIM OFF THE HOOK.

[GreyICE]

Uh, I missed the part where I have another power role at night which I rather goddamn love and is the reason I've been questioning this entire fucking setup because my role makes no sense.

[GreyICE]

Okay fine. This fucking hurts the town, but I have to claim it.

I'm a limited bulletproof. That's why I did the 'herp derp I'm a power role' nonsense earlier. I read the role PM, read how AKR was using a FUCKING BULLETPROOF and nearly threw my computer across the room. Maybe I drew the Night Kill last night, most likely I didn't given how fucking horrible AKR was playing day 1. So I was hoping they'd shoot me power role hunting, because the ability is fucking worthless if you're never going to eat a night kill.

But why am I any form of bulletproof? Any form at all? That's just too much power. Unless there's TWO FUCKING KILLS. I was near certain there was two killing teams when I saw the role. I was even more certain when I rolled into the thread and saw Katsuki's flip. I was positive beyond all belief there'd be two kills out of night one... and the no NK came up.

Katsuki DID get the Jailkeep in. Her ability, unlike mine and Zang's DOES work by PM. Maybe the scum team shot AGM. Maybe they shot me. Maybe there's another power role out there who can block kills.

But there's two killers. It's the only thing that makes sense.

[GreyICE]

Oh, and because I realized I forgot to do this as soon as I saw that he did claim vig:

Unvote

Vote: AlmasterGM

I'm not losing our free lynch to get the scum roleblocker out of the way. The serial killer dies today, we'll lynch scum tomorrow.

[GreyICE]

Why are we using the SK as the vig again when he's this smart? We need two shots out of him for the town to have gained ANYTHING. At that point we'll have 2 more night kills. Chances are most of the decent players will be fucking dead, as well as at least 1 scum. So it'll be 1 scum, 1 serial killer, and what? Three mediocre townies? IN THIS TOWN? Mediocre is such an amazing range.

Almaster learned wiggling from Fate, the fucking master. He learned wiggling from the best of the best. He knows how to wiggle. He knows how to squirm. He'll be the poster boy of pro-towniness, he won't kill to preserve our lead, we lynch someone, and suddenly we're in kingmaker with a serial killer who probably has other powers. I don't trust this. I don't want this. I am not entrusting a game where I finally, FOR ONCE, CANNOT BE NIGHT KILLED, to other players when the best players outside of you and Mari is the Mariyta and Ghostwriter! Oh and that's assuming AGM doesn't come up with bullshit reasons to lynch them too, and that neither of them are fucking scum.

[GreyICE]

Fine. We lynch Zang and have AGM kill LMP. AGM, feel free to test if my bulletproof is all used up blocking the night kill last night, and out yourself as entirely untrustworthy.

I'm still fucking worried. Tripod, Ghostwriter, Mariyta, CooLDoG, if any of you are alive in the endgame: HE'S NOT TRUSTWORTHY. DO NOT LISTEN TO HIM LYNCH HIM. GO READ SCUM FATE AND REALIZE WHO HE LEARNED FROM. YOU WILL LOSE US THE GAME IF HE'S NOT DEAD.

Unvote

Vote: Zang

Lets get rid of the fucking scum roleblocker.

[GreyICE]

Ugh. Sorry.

This is what happens when you're too fucking pissed and still fucking posting. I thought Zang was at L-2 still, forgot about Mariyta's vote.

I honestly don't care, you know my suspect pool. I wish I could say that ANY of them played in a way that gives me preference, but I don't have the first clue which one of them is town, if any are.

[GreyICE]

Given the way Zang played? Eh, fucking HavingFitz, fair enough. There's still no scum motivation to claim Vig, all that means is the town had YET ANOTHER power role that could block a kill. I won't even apologize. He makes Katsuki look like LlamaGod in terms of play skill. There's certainly no better lynch candidate.

There's just too many dots that are connected for me right now, Zang almost has to flip scum. The blocked kill, AGM's play, our proliferation of power roles, the cutesy comments about curveballs in the setup AGM tossed out, it all makes sense.

[GreyICE]

Oh and kitten, the reason I directed nothing at you and Mina - at this point I trust both of you not to fuck this up. Hell, I trust you not to fuck it up even if you're scum. You'll lynch him at the right time. I just have no trust that either of you aren't going to eat the night kill.

I'm actually somewhat worried that you're so certain you'll still be around. I'm not even certain I'll be around.

[GreyICE]

Yeah, I'm trying to watch confirmation bias. That's why I asked Zang the question, rather than run in here and start throwing around accusations. Decent chance I out a cop that way, not that I thought there was much of a chance Zang hadn't outed the role to the scumteam.

The reaction was just sooooo fit with what I expected.

P.S. If Zang is town, he has just destroyed the remains of my faith in humanity. That's not very positive thinking The only reason I was holding up his lynch is I thought there was something deeply wrong with AGM's behavior.

[GreyICE]

@Moderator: Any mistakes in this?
Are non-factional communication abilities reflected in the flip? Or does every ability show up?

Zang - Gregoire, Royal Knight [Mafia Roleblocker / Janitor] has been lynched.

The flip was presented as intended. Under normal circumstances only character name, role name and alignment are guarenteed to be presented. All aspects of a role may not be presented.

[GreyICE]

*sigh* I'm never going to live down AKR's play, am I? If you want to lynch me for his shit play, I don't even know how to respond. What was he doing? How was he voting? What was he thinking? These are complete mysteries to me. I think it's reasonably low for someone who is replacing StrangerCoug to attack someone who isn't even here anymore AND in the same post expect us to believe he's town

Okay, I'm going to guess that no scum on earth is fucking retarded enough to claim neighbor with a scumbuddy. AGM would have been better off to laugh at Zang and throw him under the bus. Especially since, as I recall it, AGM brought up and confirmed the connection. So, I'm going with third party, because the flailing yesterday confirmed it to me.

O RLY? Why would I be any more likely to be Vig than Cop? Or Tracker?

Or Watcher?

I dunno AGM, why would you be more likely to be a Vig than a Watcher? I mean I'm sure StrangerCoug is actually town AND a likely target for the Night Kill. Seems perfectly rational to me. There's really only a handful of things you target suspected scum with.

The problem I have at the moment is that AGM's one chance of victory lies with us lynching town today, then he kills town tonight. That would leave us, unless I'm VERY mistaken about the setup, in 2:2:1. Then his goal is going to be to get to 1:1:1 Kingmaker (we lynch town, he tries to shoot scum, we lynch scum, he tries to shoot town) and try to sell the townie that he's the town vig (or he's NK immune, and sells the townie on no lynch). If we lynch scum, or if he shoots scum, it goes to 3:1:1, and we lynch him and have as much as we can going into LyLo.

If we lynch AGM, then there's only one NK (barring mod shenanigans, which I'm starting to think are VERY likely) and we're likely in 4:2 MyLo. Which is essentially the same situation, less one townie. And less the chance AGM hits scum by total accident, and leaves us in 3:1:1 or 4:1 when he meant to leave us in 2:2:1.

SpireX's lack of Mariyta and Ghostwriter in the reads is something that bothers me. Both of these people are sliding in and off the radar screen. I get a strong town vibe from Mariyta, but I tend to agree with Mina from yesterday. I'd love it if scum was all in the inexperienced and shitty players, but I get the feeling that's just not it. I keep forgetting GhostWriter is even in the fucking game, and every time that happens, I get worried.

P.S. SpireX, even if you're scum, I am so fucking glad someone else got "Holy shit he's not town" vibes off AGM's posts.

[GreyICE]

Zang is Grégoire de Fronsac. I am Mani.

UK, dug this up for you. Zang flipped his claim, judging from the bloody tomahawks lodged in LMP, I'd say that Mani is AGM's real claim (

hey mod, nice kill flavor, we'd never guess it was Mani just from the flavor or anything

).

That being said, those were the two heroes of the film, and CD flipped the big villain, so I'm not sure gaming flavor will help us too much.

[GreyICE]

Also, the fact that the person who called me SK had just claimed scum, the person backing him up is likely scum, and I've been hella town this whole game.

Which is why you went into full panic mode and told me that you could have watchered StrangerCoug, and there's no way I could have figured out your action was a kill? Dude, your hella town posts were what clued me in in the first place.

SpireX, UK, I assume that the fact that we're best off lynching scum today is because AGM's shot could go into scum, and that would hand us the win on a silver platter, whereas 4:2 mylo/3:2 LyLo with 2 NKs has no such chance?

@UK: That was in response to the "Scum have fakeclaims" business.

[GreyICE]

BTW, I could expand on the full logic. The reason I asked Zang the question was that it was that it was fairly straightforward, but I was scared I had made a dumb mistake in my speculation. But the TLDR was that I was about 70% on him being the SK until he flew in here blowing up and panicking in response to my question. Then it hit about 99%

[GreyICE]

You thought ZANG was SK? That makes even less sense. Given that there were ZERO KILLS on N1, why would you have any inclination to believe there was a SK?

Noooooo, I thought Zang was the scum roleblocker. I thought there was an outside chance he was the town roleblocker, and posting like a (hmm, no insults)... yeah. Then you claimed PR targeting someone you suspected as scum (instead of vanilla, as I had assumed you were).

From there it was fairly easy to narrow it down to vig, and the JK would have prevented your kill. Except that we had too many fucking power roles. And your play was sooooo not town.

I can go into why I didn't think you were a cop or tracker if you want (or watcher like you suggested ).

[GreyICE]

Mariyta, we're in fucking bastard mod flavor. The main villain just flipped Town, the main hero just flipped scum. Does it make sense from that perspective to make his sidekick the serial killer? No, but how does any flavor make sense right now?

I'm ignoring the fucking flavor and going off gameplay and the fact that I trust 3 of the 4 reviewers not to make stupid ass decisions. As I said, it was 70%... until he ran in here screaming at me.

[GreyICE]

Heh, so I'm at L-2 with the Serial Killer on my wagon, two scum left, and the SK's only win condition being to lynch town, shoot town, then win kingmaker?

If Mariyta AND UT are both town, I'll eat my fucking shoes.

AGM - nice claim. I'm sure you'll doctor tonight and not kill. Wonder what the odds are of doctoring the NK? Even if you do, this is the sort of game where Neighbors don't show up on the flip. Wouldn't be the first weird-ass SK role I've seen. I'm going off your play - you've been dancing and screaming about how town you were since early day 1. And lurking. Lurking and yelling about how awesomely townie you are without catching one scum?

Hell, not my job to convince you what your PM says. Mina and UK are the remains of my town reads, so... what do you two think?

[GreyICE]

Hmm, I know I'm supposed to think that the scum is UT. But something I read in another game keeps hitting me in the back of the skull... every single LyLo there's an obvious mislynch that has been carefully nursed along for this one special occasion. And that obvious mislynch has somehow always been on everyone who is still alive's scumlist, but just never made it to #1.

Unfortunately I can't tell whether that special mislynch is UT or StrangerCoug. Could even be both

I'm not hyper worried about a scum hammer in this circumstance, because this has come together way too fucking fast to be entirely town (ignoring AGM, still).

Time to reread some Zang ISOs. Bloody hell.

[GreyICE]

Uh, Zang's flip totally didn't have him as a neighbor. That means, at a minimum, this game is slightly fucking weird, and most likely entirely bastardly.

Or you just make the dumbest fucking ballsy play in the history of dumb ballsy scum plays.

[GreyICE]

*ugh*

Zang ISOs hurt my eyes. Only reason we didn't lynch him sooner has to be that no one was reading his horrible posts. Nevermind, I'm going to review this tonight.

AGM, this is the best fucking wiggling I've ever seen. Props, I guess, but you're still the SK. I can write a whole long explanation of why you wouldn't be the Cop or Tracker (and why you wouldn't doctor or watcher SC, herp derp), but I don't need to convince you of that. You have your PM, if anyone who is town wants the argument, just ask. Thirty seconds of mulling it over will explain why he almost had to be targeting SC with a vig shot, thirty seconds of examing our power roles will tell you why a SK is likely in this setup, and it all starts to fall into place from there.

The question was just to confirm the setup wasn't moronic.

@UT: Jesus christ man, I hope you're scum. I have a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach you're town though.

[GreyICE]

@Mina: here's the exact line of reasoning. He targets SC with something. I've been shocked about the no SK since I read the BP and we had no NKs - it is just too much.

Roleblocker/JK

- yeaaahhhh.

Tracker

- See CooLDoG. Two tracker setups are possible, but AGM didn't react like he got his role claimed Day 1, he acted like he thought the claim was kinda horseshit, and backed down somewhat. Weird behavior.

Cop

- Okay, so this was my first instinct. But if I'm a cop, I would claim Vanilla to my neighbor until I'd cop confirmed them. It just seemed so unlikely that AGM claimed cop to ZANG of all people, in a neighbor thread, day 1, when shooting cops is like scumplay 101, and Zang was fucking Zang.

Vig

- okay, so we're narrowing it down to vig. That leaves a lot on it being a killing power. Now why serial killer?

First, I stand by this - his play has been off all game. He's been asking me to buy stuff that doesn't make any sense. And why the neighbor claim to 'clear' Zang? And why did he drop it day 2? And why did he back down when it looked like Zang might come into the thread and claim his role? Certainly if Zang was scum, he knew the scum knew.

So points:
1) I was 80% or so on him being a vig power, because none of the other options made sense to me.
2) He cleared Zang and then launched into him day 1, to lynch him, then backed down when it looked like his role might get outed.
3) I am certain his play was off.

Okay, so 2+2. No one seemed overly impressed with the role PM stuff, so it wasn't something like "the mod sent us both identical 'town' PMs at 7:43" or some shit like that. So it really wasn't convincing enough to derail the wagon, imho. Not on ZANG. So either he out thought himself (to be fair, happens all the time), or...

Why not lynch Zang?
1) He's scum and Zang is town, so it would make him look bad to lynch the town roleblocker - possible. But... Zang. Come on, yeah.
2) He wants Zang alive.

Why not lynch scum on D1? Because that's a damn problem for the scumteam. That's why. Leads to all sorts of connections being drawn, hell, scum lose their RB, that's a great thing to have happen day 1, for town. Now, lets say AGM manages to play really town, and ALSO gets town lynched day 1? Day 2, start a Zang case. Now Zang gets lynched, but first, AGM gets the credit for lynching scum. And second, there is, by the time day 3 rolls around, 5 dead townies and 1 dead scum! Leaving, by my count, a situation he could pass off as 5:2 with him leading the one scum wagon. Get another scum wagon day 3 (which he can participate in), and you have 3:1. He claims vig, the only people left alive are people he thinks are really townie, and he can say "oh, we have 2 shots - lynching and vigging." Bam! Serial Killer win.

Sure, power roles could fuck with this, but you know what fucks with it more? Lynching scum day 1, then having someone come forward day 2 with PR evidence on scum 2, then having scum 3 lynched on day 3, and everyone going "oh... fucking serial killer."

And remember, he can shoot scum to even the odds if we're lynching too many townies. It's ridiculous for him to let us lynch scum day 1 as the serial killer, if he can prevent it.

Being JKed must have thrown a spanner in the works, and then Zang knew he was Vig and there was a wagon on him. AGM backed off the wagon as soon as the vig thing looked like it might be outed. Probably planned to "vig" Zang N2 if we lynched a townie, and then he could be safe as houses from the people he was scared of adding 2+2.

Tenuous? Not really. I thought there was a decent chance of it being bullshit - but I was getting so sure of Zang scum, I was fairly certain if he WAS the vig, there's no way that scum didn't know. I just needed to get some sort of reaction.

Raw bloody panicky lashing out was about what I expected of him as the SK.

[GreyICE]

This doctor stuff is such obvious horseshit too. Everyone so far gets 1-shots (well, except maybe Katsuki, but hers read VERY one shot to me) and he gets an alternating? In town? Funny setup indeed.

Probably he can do an alternating night commuter or some shit to become investigation immune and bulletproof. I saw that one on MTGS somewhere, forget the game. Tomorrow it's all like "Oh, I doctored UK because she's obvtown and look she wasn't the night kill, dear me, couldn't outguess the scum, herp derp."

Or much more likely if town gets lynched, there's another town corpse, and it's "2:2:1, can't lynch the fucking Serial Killer now, can you?"

I agree with SpireX and UK: We need to lynch scum today. I stand by one of UT and Mariyta being scum - the wagon was just too fast, town does NOT have people chucking their votes around like that. Now, I'm going to FNM, be back around 11 to do a reread.

[GreyICE]

HAHAHAHA

HAHAHA

SEVEN MINUTES UNTIL DRAFT STARTS, SEVEN MINUTES AND I KNOW THE TO? OH LOOK, I CAN BORROW HIS COMPUTER FOR A MINUTE!

HIS CLAIM IS SUCH HORSESHIT. LOOK AT IT. HE'S THE ODD NIGHT DOCTOR? SO HE WAS GOING TO FUCKING

DOCTOR STRANGERCOUG

?

LOL

LOL

LOL

OH MAN, VINDICATION IS MINE. YES AGM. I SUSSED YOU OUT. NO QUICKTOPIC, NO ZANG TO 'HELP MY REASONING,' NO FUCKING MIRACLES. JUST ME, MY BRAIN, VERSUS YOU AND YOUR "AWESOME TOWN GAME." THIS WAS GOING TO BE YOUR AWESOME GAME ALRIGHT, WASN'T IT? ALMASTERGM FUCKING FOOLS EVERYONE AND RUNS AWAY WITH A SERIAL KILLER VICTORY. NO TEAM, NO HELP, JUST YOUR POWERS AND YOUR BRAIN. NICE BRAIN, AGM. NICE FAKECLAIM. ALTERNATING, ALRIGHT. "YOU MAY CHOOSE TO BECOME IMMUNE TO INVESTIGATIONS AND NIGHT KILLS. IF YOU DO SO YOU CANNOT SUBMIT A KILL THIS NIGHT. YOU MAY NOT DO THIS ON ALTERNATING NIGHTS." THAT SOUND ABOUT RIGHT AGM? HUH? DECENT PARAPHRASING OF YOUR PM?

WE GOT FUCKING SCUM AND THE FUCKING SERIAL KILLER DAY 2! YES! YES!

OKAY. NOW.

MARIYTA

VS.

UNCERTAIN TRIPOD

ONE OF THESE IS SCUM. DON'T THINK BOTH UNLESS THE SCUMTEAM HAS ROCKS FOR BRAINS.

HAHAHA!

GOING TO DRAFT MBS. MINA, UK, I WILL GIVE YOU THREE COOKIES EACH IF YOU TELL ME WHO IS SCUM IN THIS BY THE TIME I'M DONE.

LETS FUCKING GET THIS THING!

[GreyICE]

Hey about to run out for the day but:

UK is town.

AGM is absolutely not town.

Reck was super town and I am not amused to see him dead.
The beast that is, was, and will be AKR is scum.
Mina's on the fence.
UT may, in fact, be scum (there was a happy moment and a throwaway vote on Zang I don't like).

Wagon, position #1: AGM

Two possibilities here, SpyreX
Possibilities:
1) AGM is the Serial Killer
2) AGM is scum (should be impossible)

If AGM is the SK, we HAVE to lynch

town

today for him to win. If he's SK, and tomorrow is 3:1:1 (or 4:1:1 with a no-kill from him) he dies. If he's scum, and we lynch a scumbuddy, how the hell does he win again? Town lynches him tomorrow, and instead of flipping serial killer he flips scum? LOL

His only shot at victory, by your own logic, is to lynch town, and end up in some sort of kingmaker, then convince the last person he's really the town vigilante. And your response is to throw your vote on a wagon he started?

@UT: Thanks for the vote removal. I'm fairly certain he wanted a quick lynch, because there's holes in that logic you could drive a tractor trailer through. That makes, UT by my estimation, town - and our designated mislynch for tomorrow. And now I think I have the scum on a wagon that hit L-1 in LyLo less than 24 hours after the thread opened.

Vote:SpyreX

[GreyICE]

Okay then, SpyreX, maybe you'll explain the logic to us?

[GreyICE]

Lemme paraphrase DGB: It takes 30 seconds to explain your logic. It takes forever to come up with a town line of logic when you had none.

[GreyICE]

Awesome. Well that answer was quick and thorough! I commend, you, let me unvote.

Dear god you set off my sarcasm mode. Everything you post is like "oh you don't comprehend my plans and shit." Well, I admit to total non-comprehension. I'm a bloody moron. Enlighten me how this works, again.

[GreyICE]

Nice.

Well, I feel entirely comfortable with where my vote is at.

[GreyICE]

Yup. There the line of logic was fairly straightforward, although I held onto a possibility I might have been wrong, which is why I needed the reaction. But the only thing it made sense for him to be targeting SC with was some sort of killing power, and once I made that jump it's exactly like you said from reading the posts - there's absolutely no way AGM is town.

Any line of logic that has someone who NEEDS to lynch town today doing what AGM is doing involves industrial grade WIFOM. If you at least thought there was a good chance AGM was town, I could buy it. But this line of logic doesn't work at all for me.

Occam's Razor:
1) You hit the day, realized AKR's posts were abysmal (from the first post calling Reck/Dram "gay" on forward, they were horrible).
2) You decided to build a case against me for the sins of AKR.
3) AGM managed to get the wagon to L-2 with sheer force of... something. Mariyta has hated me pretty much since the curse word day 1, UT... man, no offense, but there's a reason you're the designated mislynch of this town.
4) Ooh, opportunity!

Question in my mind now is whose the buddy. Ghostwriter makes the most sense - he could quickhammer, then get lynched for it tomorrow. AGM commutes tonight, and he can't NK you and win, so that leaves the town at 1:1:1. Then it's down to you to prove that AGM is scum, while he tries to convince the last townie that you're scum and he's the town vig/doctor.

If I find a line of logic that you can use to make AGM scum and not the serial killer, I think I have the plan pretty much locked up here.

[GreyICE]

Other buddy possibility is Kitten, which would lend credence to my "one on, one off theory," which is pretty much how this wagon should be running. I think you trust Kitten enough to carry this game if she has to bus you, and the dance the two of you are doing feels a little contrived. Still, GW lurked epically through the entire drama on day 2. Like, "hand out awards for this" level of lurk.

PEDIT: @SpyreX: That was supposed to be a 180? Oh come on. You know there's a serial killer variant where they can commute every other night to be immune to investigations and NKs, at the cost of their kill. Wonder how fast you'll remember that when you need AGM lynched. Or maybe he just eats the NK when he's forced to kill rather than commute.

[GreyICE]

Yep. I think it's more likely that AGM claimed 'odd night' (or every other night, I suppose) doctor with his commuter role than he's town, with the posts he's made and the reaction he's had. Doctor is such an amazingly fake-able roleclaim. I notice you haven't called for a cop to come forward, which should be pretty basic if we have a doctor in the house tonight.

Of course that opens the possibility of why a NK wasn't submitted on the doc/vig tonight, doesn't it? Unless you have the same suspicions I have, and have no real desire to submit an NK that's just going to bounce.

[GreyICE]

Wow, you like to make everything much much more complex than it is.

1) No mystical hoops. Two possibilities. One, AGM said exactly what happened in the thread. He got poisoned by Katsuki. Two, Zang RBed him because he didn't want the SC shot, and AGM chose not to commute night 2. Either make sense to me, and frankly I don't give a shit which happed. AGM said he got RBed/JKed, there was no kill. 1+1 = 2

2) I don't remember anyone claiming doctor before now. As a roleclaimed doctor/vig, AGM should be pretty much dead tonight, and he can protect a Cop before he goes. This creates, for tomorrow, a minimum of two confirmed townies which is fairly hax (or one confirmed town, one confirmed scum). Right?

Talk about flailing - Mystical hoops for someone to not submit a kill night one when they claimed JK in the thread (and you think they're town, no less)?

Talk about flailing - If a cop does exist, that pretty much raises the roof on the power level, so you're laying the groundwork for non-confirmed sanity? Really convenient if he gets a guilty you don't like, right? No sanity test.

Yep. This is pretty much confirms it to me. Scum.

[GreyICE]

Uh huh. Hey SpyreX, the hypothetical cop has had 2 nights to investigate any combination of CooLDoG, LMP, and Zang to get results that would confirm their sanity. And frankly, any one of them was quite worth investigating. Kinda nice if they don't come forward until tomorrow, right? Everyone knows what to do with non-confirmable information brought forth when you need one mislynch to lose (though I suppose our friendly neighborhood SK makes that a mislynch and a miskill).

AGM got a slightly nonstandard SK build (not even a very non-standard one). He got RBed/JKed night one. He claimed this himself.

This doesn't seem to need mystical hoodoo or wild wacky SK fun. Just a little bit of bad luck for the scum.

[GreyICE]

So, GI, you're accusing a lot of people at this point.

Can you narrow it down to two or three suspects with a nice summary of each?

Accusing a lot of people? Not really. Looks like we were fairly close to the mark all along.

StrangerCoug/SpyreX - #1. Makes perfect sense. Was either hoping his buddy quickhammered, or trying to sell the town on hammering me before we had any time to plan. Leaves us in 3:2:1 (or 4:2, if you believe AGM). He believes AGM is definitely not town, then gets a song and dance about this doctor ability and is like "okay, that makes perfect sense, lets go quicklynch!"

I think his massive misrepresentations of me earlier summarize that. "Mystical magical hoops that show how the serial killer didn't kill anyone night 1!" when he claims to be jailblocked? It's nice rhetoric, but he hasn't even been able to put together a line of logic for it. The case against our friend StrangerCoug from Day 1/2 doesn't really need any more summary.

Partner - Either GhostWriter, or Kitten. I'm leaning towards Ghostwriter, just because of how fucking impossible it is to find a GhostWriter post when you need one. Whenever you're like "wait... he's still in the game?!?" that sets off alarm bells in my head. Kitten only because of the ridiculous dance you've played with SpyreX, and your waffling to LMP yesterday over Zang... could be you were going to bus, then saw an out, where I'm sitting. My gut still says town, but guts can only be trusted so far. Also, fwiw, Kitten dragged SpyreX into the game, and it has to suck balls when your partner is as worthless as StrangerCoug (and your other partner was Zang... dear lord).

[GreyICE]

Every now and then, you come home, and there's a present waiting for you.

I do think SpyreX just tripped. I am amazed by him, UK. I have to give it that. To replace into

that

slot, then nearly force a mislynch? Credit where credit is due, but he just tripped.

First, AGM's claim is bullshit on a townie because every single ability so far has fallen into a simple pattern

- Day/Night

Katsuki claimed hers was a day ability. Cooldog's Vig was a day ability. My governor is a day ability. And Zang's janitor? I'm going to guess janitoring the night kill isn't exactly worth much (lessee, were they town or scum... durrrrrrrrrr) so it was a day ability.

But you know what else they have in common? Town abilities were one shot. Katsuki didn't explicitly claim it, but I looked up her character. The flavor of the vial of poison was distinctly 'unique rare drug.' CD's vig was one shot. My governor is one shot. But SpyreX just bought that AGM's abilities are multishot! That means that he has a reasoning for believing a claim of multishot abilities!

AGM's claim is total bullshit, because he claimed two different night abilities. Doctor/Vig is somehow more balanced than full vig? And SpyreX has no good reason to believe it.

You're right, SpyreX, I have been speculating about the setup. Every ability I see claimed is day/night... except AGMs. You want me to believe that the person who made this post never noticed that? Never questioned it? Never thought "ooh, two night abilities and zero day abilities... well that's odd." Three one shot abilities (four if Zang was one shot janitor, which could make sense) and one alternating multi-use ability? Yeah. Total bullshit. You seem reasonably good at this SpyreX. Why would you never even question it?

Well, you don't need to lynch AGM. If you get enough townies lynched, he can eat the night kill, so as long as you buy his ability without question, you're probably not the target of his kills (he has to make it to endgame with one townie who buys that he's town - showing any doubt makes you a very likely hit).

And yes Mina. I'm buckling down. Normally I'm very rushed, normally I'm more used to pressuring people than I am to playing out endgame. I have to crack down and make this one work - we have to lynch scum today, and I am sure that SpyreX is it.

[GreyICE]

Well you have guessed one thing correctly in that quicktopic.

There's no limited about it. It's full, complete, no holds barred bulletproof.

I was hoping if the shot did go into me night 1 they'd be tempted to take another shot to off me. Or if AGM did choose to shoot me they'd take another shot later to kill me, since the 'last charge was burned up.' So I hinted it was one shot.

[GreyICE]

Yep. BP governor. I'll prove the governor part, I'll happily get shot at night rather than be a mislynch. Throw a few votes on someone like Mina and I'll pardon her.

As for the full BP, yeaaahhh. You understand why I was pretty sure there had to be a third party killing role.

[GreyICE]

Tripod, someone is going to eat the night kill. I'd rather eat the night kill than be a mislynch. Yes, this helps the town a lot.

As for my dancing around it earlier, it helped the town if a night kill was directed at me because I just won't die. I know the governor bit doesn't prove I'm town. But SpyreX questioned my claim, and I can prove that part.

P.S. SpyreX, like any other governor, I can't pardon myself. LOLZ @ self-pardoning governor.

[GreyICE]

(I've seen more governors that can prevent themselves than SK commuter voodoos)

He's absolutely bulletproof if he's scum. Godfathers hooo.

But lets make this REALLY simple:

Him or me.

Today. Decide. Go.

No. Lets wait for GhostWriter to get in here as a minimum. Either he's your partner, or you're setting up a mislynch, but either way he is NOT lurking through this day like he did Day 2.

[GreyICE]

Well, up to you to convince the town of that. I will note timing starts from start of day, not from thread time total. It does suck for the scumteam if he's scum though. LOL, what a joke if it's been SC/Ghostwriter/Zang all along. The lurker confederation.

[GreyICE]

Omigod.

SX forcing the 1 v. 1 like that is giving me nightmares that this is T v. T.

In which case, I am going to cry and say GG scum.

You think there's a decent case on someone who isn't SC? I like the GhostWriter idea, but I think SC/SpyreX are almost are certain to be scum.

Wagons just do not reach L-1 at that speed without scum support (ignoring AGM ftm), and as I said, 1 on 1 off is how I almost always see it.

[GreyICE]

Mmm...the 1 v. 1 play makes me think SpyreX is trying to set it up so that GI *obviously* isn't scum or SpyreX *obviously* isn't scum once one of them flips scum.

Just sayan'.

Out of curiousity Kitten, who WOULDN'T you lynch, given the chance?

[GreyICE]

No, that we should turbo-quicklynch one of the two of us. I very much like the idea of lynching SpyreX. He's supposed to be a great player, and I've seen his name come up in other games, but there's only so much you can do replacing in for SC. At this point, he's probably hoping to force one mislynch, or barring that, at least make it hard to detect his partner.

My vote is exactly where I feel it should be.

[GreyICE]

@Mina: My own. It reached L-1 yesterday at breakneck speed. Frankly, the last time I saw a wagon move that fast was off a day 2 cop claim with a guilty.

[GreyICE]

So if I get lynched and flip town, you'd really rather not be lynched?

Yeah, I can guess why...

[GreyICE]

Oh for fucks sake, what obnoxious power do you and your friends have, SpyreX?

And AGM, yeah, I note you still haven't explained why your claim doesn't match EVERYONE ELSE'S. Not a surprise you want to lynch the townie first, then shoot the scum in two days. Oh, you'll be the vigilante hero, quick, lynch last scum for profit, go... SK win.

[GreyICE]

Oh fuck it, SpyreX, first you want to quicklynch, now you're counseling patience?

What the fuck, man. AGM wants to say I'm the one "flailing?"

PEDIT: Shut up and present your fucking evidence. This is just endless appeal to emotion. Governor isn't a superpower, it's actually kinda fucking terrible, and bulletproof isn't out of line for a game with multiple kills. As I should know, because I fucking have it.

[GreyICE]

OH I SEE. I HAVE CAPS LOCK TOO.

YOU ARE SO FULL OF SHIT YOUR EYES TURNED BROWN. THERE, NOW I'M PLAYING AT YOUR LEVEL.

LETS SEE THIS FUCKING CASE, MAYBE YOU'LL OUT YOUR BUDDY IN IT.

[GreyICE]

Heh. I notice something interesting you overlooked.

Namely, AGM jumping into the thread and screaming his head off about how my suspicions were correct. Yeah. At that point I was 80% on Zang being scum, I just figured even scum would answer honestly in those circumstances - literally, what was he protecting? A "townie?" Yeah.

Once AGM confirmed my suspicions, well, frankly I wish I'd waited a little longer so we could have done a good vote, but I don't have a real problem hammering scum.

[GreyICE]

I have to give you credit. I really fucking do. You replaced into a tough spot. I'm not going to bother to summarize all the scummy shit SC was responsible for. UT did that perfectly fine. All I'm going to try and do is show all the scummy shit you're responsible for. You've been building the case on me with whatever tools you can - none of them involving solid logic.

First documented:

The AGM flip-flop

AGM is absolutely not town.

Once you realized he was working with you, at least for today, the backpeddling began. You didn't even question an alternating night doctor/vig despite the fact that everyone else's powers are day/night. You've been happy to buy that with whatever currency you can find. You've laughed at me, and posted in caps, and made fun of me. What you haven't concretely answered is why AGM has two night powers when everyone else had a day/night power. Even the friggin scum had a day/night power. Yet one person in this entire game doesn't fit the format of everyone else. Kinda like a... third party serial killer?

Further, the combination of Day-Vig + Standard Vig absolutely doesn't add up for balance. Even against a stacked team.

Now, on the flipside, A Doctor / Vig then fits the pattern as laid out AND makes the balance work better (in essence, there's either a 2-kill cycle or the equivalent of a standard vig.

So a doctor/vig is more balanced than a full vig.
It was a long post in which absolutely nothing is said.

And then the buddying with AGM:

As long as I am alive AGM isn't getting lynched. It isn't happening.

Sure. You can buddy AGM because you have an alternative method of dealing with the SK. We don't - we kinda have to lynch him. If you get enough townies lynched he gets endgamed.

The total bullshit

Seriously, 80% of the things he's thrown my way have been whatever he could grab. Look at his ISO. Half his posts are him insulting me, hoping for me to fly off the handle and rip into him. And I won't lie. He's pretty fucking annoying. But when it's down to the wire like this, I'm not going to fuck around and scream at people like I do on days 1 and 2.

But there's immense levels of bullshittery in his posts. He grabs everything and the kitchen sink to throw at me.

Besides, you're a governor afterall. Why is there this sense of fire and flame at the idea of getting run up. Afterall, you could just stop it.

I offer to demonstrate my governor powers, rather than be today's mislynch, and suddenly he shuts the fuck up about them and we never hear about it again.

If GI gets lynched and flips scum, you can lynch me tomorrow. No fightin or tomfoolery.

As kitten points out, if we lynch scum today, we have to lynch AGM tomorrow. Even if we lynch me today and him tomorrow, then that still leaves us in the kingmaker we've been trying to avoid. And I'm sure he can bullshit his way out of my town flip.

Finally, we have all the various ways he's tried to make me angry and attack him irrationally, so he can claim "flailing scum" - a charge he likes to throw my way. A small sample (and please read the ISO, because he's full of enormous fucking bullshit):

Here's the deal. You're flailing. Not a little bit.

So, dissecting the "logic" of the first post is absolutely simply an attempt, and a poor one at that, to shift away from the inevitable.
Or, to put it far more succinctly:
CHOO CHOO SUMMON LOS ROPOS

You've got the termosity to shout Occam's Razor and then fluff that rubbish out?

Yes, he's dead tonight. WHICH WOULD GUARANTEE THIS MYSTICAL COP (WHICH IS EVEN MORE TECH CONSIDERING THE SPLIT SETUP THUS FAR GOOD LORD) IS DEAD. VERSUS HAVING THE SCUM HAVE TO TAKE A GUESS TO WHERE HE IS.
Additionally, AND THIS REALLY SHOULDN'T BE NECESSARY, the existence of a split roleblocker makes the existence of any number of roles that can manipulate said results higher which makes this whole cop claim yee-haw a bulls-eye for SCREW WITH MA RESULTS PLEASE.
GOD IN HEAVEN

I could go on, and on, and on.

Finally, the case he just made

It must look convincing to him from an outsider's perspectives. What he misses are the time stamps. Good lord, waiting for Zang to answer questions was like waiting for hell to freeze over and the devil come up to dance. I mean what are we supposed to do, sitting around with our thumbs up our asses waiting for his buddies to coach him to the point where he can answer us? Zang lurked like a pro - he wouldn't answer for days at a time, and the answers were always more confusing than helpful.

Seriously, we could STILL BE IN DAY 2 if we were waiting for that asshole to answer questions. And he'd still be responding with non-answers and prod dodges. His entire scum strategy was to wait for the town to find something shinier (like UK haring off after LMP) and come back later to go 'hurr durr, good wagon guys.' Or, more likely, just lurk through the lynch. And every answer he gave was less helpful than the one before it.

I got the answer I wanted. Yeah, I should have waited, but I have no problem with the concept of hammering the fucker before he answered. Yeah, I get why people were voting to put pressure on him. He. Was. Infuriating.

[GreyICE]

Not really AGM. Thats one person that either way wont say no.

And lets play timestamps:

Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:50 am <--- Telling Mari to wait for Zang to answer
Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:08 am <--- Mari's post.
Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:26 pm <--- The hammer.

The misrepresentations are constant and amazing. Lets play timestamps, alright:

Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:04 am <--- AGM answers the question in a way that is a thousand times more valuable than Zang's answer could ever be, and then proceeds to flail about like hell for the next hour and a half.

Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:37 pm <---

The last post that Zang made in the thread.

------------------------- <--- The last useful post Zang made in the thread

Yeah. At that point I was pretty fucking convinced he was scum. It just looked worse and worse for Zang the more time I had to read his posts and the more time I had to wait for him to do anything.

[GreyICE]

Heh. That's funny, AGM doesn't want too much attention drawn to how flaily that particular conversation was (remember the bit where you asked how I could possibly know that you didn't use watcher powers on StrangerCoug?).

And this from the person who says the neighbor QT is 80% him raging at how fucking horrible Zang was lurking and how bad his play was.

[GreyICE]

@SpyreX - You're right. I wanted to wait to confirm that AGM had the role I thought he did. Based on that information, I was going to decide whether he was the serial killer. I'd already decided that Zang was scum by then. The multi-day gaps in posting, his lackadaisical answers, his targets and attacks, everything seemed designed to make it look like he was doing something without doing anything except going unnoticed.

Once he did I'd gotten the last answers I needed. UK is right - I wish I'd waited, but I mentally had Zang at L-2 because I forgot Mariyta didn't unvote. As I said, everyone was fucking frustrated of his 2-3 day absences from the thread. The question in my mind at that point really wasn't "zang scum" - it was "AGM town?"

[GreyICE]

Eh, I was going to reply to that snarkily, then I remembered you pretty much need the mislynch to win, since it's a free-and-clear lynch on you if we hit scum today. That's been beaten into the ground, but you've got to play to your win condition still. So whatever. I've explained my reasoning, go to town AGM.

[GreyICE]

check out that original playerlist and then the playerlist now.

this game has improved by like 100000x.

QFT

We cut Fitz/Kats/Zang and a replay with this list would be THE BEST THING EVER.

[GreyICE]

I'm not playing with Fate and SpyreX together. Sorry guys. I've already asked for replacement.

Ugh. Well, I know you've never much liked me, but I'm sorry to see you go Mariyta.

[GreyICE]

Huggles!

[GreyICE]

Yah...

Would so be worth starting this over with 100% less tards, which oddly is around where we are today (and Tripod's posting has picked up so much he doesn't even frustrate me anymore).

Anyway, when you're done, hopefully you and fate can help me lynch SpyreX/StrangerCoug scum.

[GreyICE]

>Implying I at all know about purple text.
>Implying that you can use it.

@UT: Fine, fine. But seriously, D1 was terrible. Some cynicism might be required to survive it.

I just used whiskey. It's like cynicism, but it makes me happy.

[GreyICE]

Hey Fate, I explained it pretty fucking clearly. Nothing else fit. Not a slip, AGM doesn't read town to me, and I wanted to know what the fuck he was targeting SC with.

Think about it. Why would AGM even tell Zang he had any role at all? Because he thought Zang was town. Why'd he think that? Some bullshit with the timing - or because he's not town himself?

[GreyICE]

BECAUSE HE'S THE FUCKING SERIAL KILLER.

I DO NOT LAY DOWN AND ACCEPT MY MISLYNCH WHEN I THINK WE'RE IN A 5:2:1. NO. NO. NO. I DON'T FUCKING LIE DOWN AND ACCEPT MYSELF BEING MISLYNCHED EVER. BUT ESPECIALLY NOT HERE. NOT NOW.

The reasons are simple enough, Fate. What would you target SC with?

Cop - Cop in a neighbor team and you don't cop your partner night one? Bullshit.

Tracker - After cooldog? Bullshit.

Roleblocker/Jailkeeper - Bullshit after we have Zang claim and kats flip.

Doctor? Watcher? Noooooooo.

Oh what is it. I HAVE NO IDEA FATE. I HAVE ROCKS IN MY SKULL. HELP ME OUT

[GreyICE]

HE CLAIMED THAT HE CAN'T SHOOT TODAY. BECAUSE HE'S FUCKING THE VIG/DOCTOR OR SOME BULLCRAP THAT EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS TOWN SEEMS TO BE BUYING.

[GreyICE]

So he's not an every night Serial Killer, at the least.

You have other reads or are you blatantly going to do nothing but "SK-hunt" all day?

The least you could do is tell me that Mina is, in fact, your buddy.

Huh. It's like I have my vote on SpyreX and think that his most likely scumbuddy is Ghostwriter.

Mina is fairly obvtown. Your reads are busted Fate.

[GreyICE]

Hey Serial Killer. I know you need to lynch town today, which is why you have me as #1 and SpyreX as #2. But, guess it's too much to ask that you flip the order, right?

Yes, I suck, I fingered you, get over it. It'll be funny when you lynch SpyreX tomorrow, you 'accidentally' vig town, then you're like "oh look, lets lynch the last scum fast!"

Hopefully the scum will be smart enough to send a bullet into you when the "doctor" phase lifts. I honestly was starting to feel sorry about how bad your situation is, but you're SUCH an unrepentant ass that I don't even care at this point. This is just funny.

[GreyICE]

Look, I'm flattered you read my scum games to try and prepare for how to play this game, but you didn't pay attention to how I treated the set-up as scum.

You did pretty well considering though, so be proud.

You slipped, you lose. Sure YOU don't think its such a bad slip because "hey! None of the other roles make sense for AGM!" yeah they don't, you know WHY? Because AGM IS ACTUALLY A VIG. So of course his actions line up more with that role, the fact is TOWN WOULDNT HAVE APPROACHED THE SITUATION THE WAY YOU DID.

You shouldn't have been fishing for what role AGM had IN THE FIRST PLACE. This "curiosity" is just bullshit retrospect. You're trying to JUSTIFY your slip with "WELL IST OBVIOUS HE WAS A VIG HE COULDNT HAVE BEEN NETIN ELSE!!!" to minimize the implications of it. The fact REMAINS that you knew he was a vig beforehand and thought saying it in the thread would be safe. Then as soon as he confirmed it, you DIDNT explain why you thought he HAD to be a vig. You IMMEDIATELY launched into the AGM is SK tirade you had been WAITING AND PREPARING for days ever sinec you learned he was a vig in your quicktopic.

So if I'm SpyreX's scumbuddy, why aren't we on the SK train to uncrosskillable town? Or how about that good old "style-hunting" way you scumhunt that you would be using on your posts. Mhmmm. Sucks you had to be SCUM this game.

What, after everyone at the start of the day expresses how bad of an idea it would be to kill the SK?

No clue. Really.

I have read your scum games. The one thing I remember from them more clearly than anything else? You don't take risks as scum. You're also one of the best scum players I know.

I didn't feel it fucking necessary to explain to the rest of the town how I was guessing AGM was a 'vig' (/doctor, lolol) because the exact line of logic up there makes fucking sense, and I didn't have time to explain when I needed an honest reaction out of him.

You tell me, Fate. Is AGM a total fucking moron? No? Then why would he ask how I knew he didn't use Watcher powers on StrangerCoug?

Because he was panicking. He panicked. It's the raction I needed, it was the reaction I got.

[GreyICE]

Well, here's the question we really need to be asking.

Even if you're right...this makes you town...how?

My role PM makes me town, not this line of logic.

I believe that I just helped the town, and I believe that the scum are working to push this case against me because they think with another townie dead they can afford to blow the night kill on the serial killer. SpyreX is the correct lynch today if you want to hit scum. I'm a fairly big fucking danger to them since they can't just shut me up overnight. If I ever get accepted as town, they're in big fucking trouble, and they're working their ass off to prevent that. SpyreX's arguments have all the signs of a case pushed without base. I laid this out before Fate came in and blew up the thread, and I will again.

How often does he use an attack that's utter bullshit? His claim that I shouldn't be scared of a lynch because I can just govern myself, and how that made my role bullshit? His fairly quick shutting up about that - without altering his views? His continued insistance that it would take Sylvia Brown to work out that AGM was going to shoot SC? The vast levels of sarcasm and asshattery he used?

Seriously, UK, this is your friend and apparently a good player. Is that good fucking play, or pushing a weak fucking case because you're trapped in a terrible spot and grabbing the first piece of rope you see in the darkness?

[GreyICE]

I'm going to take a break from re-reading to comment on this.

GreyICE, UK is 100% correct. Even if you are right about AGM being the SK, that doesn't preclude you from being scum.

It actually enhances your chances.

Tell me this much: How were you able to make the logical leap from Vig claim to SK? And I mean by this, how were you able to determine that AGM was specifically an SK instead of, you know,

a mafia member

?

The fact is, the logical leap you took reeks of TMI.

So even if the Vig/Doctor claim seems bogus (and it kinda does), and even if it were to flip SK, that would not make you any more town.

OH MY GOD THIS LOGIC.

I WORKED OUT HE WASN'T A MEMBER OF THE MAFIA BECAUSE HE WAS NEIGHBOR CLAIMED WITH SOMEONE I THOUGHT WAS SCUUUUMMMMMMMM.

<- BEATS FACE INTO WALL.

[GreyICE]

Except for that whole he's not the SK goooooddd looorrddddddd UK help me here.

Seriously I dont know what else you want from me. AGM caught him in the cookie jar. I SHOWED the 180 to lynch Zang then after the response of "ohh but time" showed the 3 HOUR timestamps.

I've explained why AGM makes sense now. You're not even blinking at bulletproof governor.

And of the people that actually are LISTENING I'm dealing with "ohh look scumbuddies <3"

Good lord.

Fate. I need you.

I've always needed you.

Fix this.

Veni, veni, venias,
Ne me mori facias

OH YOU ARE FULL OF SO MUCH SHIT. IT WAS TWO DAYS SINCE ZANG RESPONDED IN THREAD. TWO. FUCKING. DAYS.

Actually, his posts before that on day 2 were such fucking obvious pieces of distancing that I'm not surprised you don't want me to talk about them too much. "Oh look, we can't be scum together if we have these little catfights occasionally, and it shows we're scumhunting and doing pro-town things even though they're so dumb that no one wants to read them."

Yeah, why not more people read that interesting little reaction between StrangerCoug and Zang that was the sole fucking thing either of them did in thread all of day 2.

[GreyICE]

Preeeeetttyyy sure my wagon now consists of AGM the SK, StrangerCoug's strange replacement, and Fate.

Hey, I kinda don't feel the pressure here at L-2 tbh. Y'all miiiiggghhht wanna find someone I have a town read on to join your wagon

[GreyICE]

Getting town reads this game has been balls difficult, this is true

[GreyICE]

@Fate: Don't see why Spy isn't scum.

Because they're buddies?

I mean SpyreX has to be the one buddy Fate doesn't wanna bus. Not that I'm overwhelmed by his level of play, tbh. I expected more, somehow.

[GreyICE]

DEAR LORD MAN YOUR SLOT ISN'T EVEN THE STRONGEST SCUMREAD.

SPYREX/STRANGERCOUG WAS 10X STRONGER. WHY DO I WANNA LYNCH YOU OVER SOMEONE I'M NEARLY CERTAIN WILL FLIP SCUM?

[GreyICE]

Lets save everyone some time. AGM is full of shit, and Zang has a brain made out of like solid granite. Seriously, Zang might as well have been town, he would have been more useful to the scumteam in that role.

Katsuki never got off the jailkeep night one. I don't know why you dumbasses thought she did. I pointed out exactly why it never happened, and everyone was like "oh... but I guess it did anyway." Dumb fucks. AGM was beating on Zang night one, and had already let the vig shit out, and we decided to kill his ass. I mean seriously, you leave Zang in a neighbor thread with anyone, much less AGM, and he's going to fucking out himself. The dumbass could barely avoid claiming scum in thread. He COULDN'T avoid claiming it in the neighbor thread, by taunting AGM before AGM died. Told him he was dead and Zang got to live as confirmed town thanks to AGM. Apparently he thought that was really fucking funny after how much AGM had been ripping into him about being an idiot - or Zang is just that fucking arrogant. SMART MOVEZ R US.

Figured AGM would claim the entire story in thread, since I was guessing he was doctor protected, and Zang was toast, so when that huge ass fucking bullshit about him being Jailkept when I fucking KNEW he had been talking to Zang hit the thread, I was like "the fuck?" That's around when the fucking pieces started falling into place. AGM should win the ass pull of the century for that claim, he KNEW he was the target of the kill, he KNEW no doctor had protected him, and he managed to pull that out of his ass? 50% luck, 50% divine inspiration.

Didn't guess he had a on/off commuter until today, thought he was immune to night kills like me. Oh well. Shit you learn, I don't get Red PMs anywhere near often enough.

Oh yeah. And any of you fucking dumbasses who read A Knotted Rope's ISO and didn't scream "SCUM" at the top of your lungs should see if you can trade in your scumhunting badges for replacement brains. I replaced in, read his ISO, and took two stiff shots before I even continued. Why I'm still alive I'll never know.

Vote: GreyICE

NO MORE DISCUSSION FOR YOU.

AGM. SORRY. YOU'RE OUTED. END OF THE LINE, THIS TOWN IS SMARTER NOW THAT WE'VE KILLED OR REPLACED ALL THE DUMBASSES.

GODDAMN WHAT I COULD HAVE DONE WITH A HALFWAY DECENT SCUMTEAM AND NOT HAVING REPLACED IN...

[GreyICE]

We correctly deduced that Katsuki had jailkept AGM? Where? Zang was telling us nothing! We figured he was going to kill Zang overnight, and had told him the SC bullshit to make him feel good about it. As for the Janitor shit, fuck Zang, he was never going to use that. He forgot about it day 1. None of you would have guessed HavingFitz was town, I am so sure of that.

Seriously, AGM, town, there's some reasons I didn't want that thread shared, we were enormous assholes in there. Would have rather had it be super secret tech, but... really, I just didn't wanna reveal what jerks we were after we were finally starting to get along. Hell, y'all can guess how smart the AGM shot was from how it turned out. Yay, I'm a genius! *snort*

LLD - how the hell did you cue I was playing the same scum game as UK? UK never even called me on it! I was just like... huh? And it was an offhand comment. That's crazy-good instincts, period. Your logic is... uh... well, if you work on it, your logic will work itself out eventually. You always seem to walk halfway there and then get pulled off course by something. That comment to you I've wanted to apologize for for a while, that was pure distancing. I didn't mean it, sowweeeeeeee.

UT... uh... basically everything I said about you on day 3 was true. You picked up your game a lot, despite being our designated mislynch, and you really were looking good by the end. A lot of my frustration with you was totally feigned, and that shitfit on day 2 was entirely scum nonsense. I've seen MUCH worse from town, but I was playing a part there.

Believe it or not, I actually came out of this with an okay opinion of CooLDoG - he was frustrating as shit, but he's smarter than he looks. I was giving him 10 to 1 on shooting UK right off the bat on day 1, and he didn't. I had that pump primed and everything. His play picked up on day 2 as well, I kinda wanted to see where it would go, but... err... power role, you know the drill.

Mari and LLD both played a fucking excellent game. Mari... I miss you. LLD... you made me miss Mari less. You were both awesome! LLD, I enjoyed watching that.

Everyone else - I spent most of the time lying my ass off, sorry.

Fate/SpyreX - good replacements. I like the cast we ended with!

[GreyICE]

@GI: Well, the thing is, my scum game/town game RAAAAAAGEEEEEEEEE don't look that different. That said, the SK bullshit REALLY should have clued me in.

Awww, but it was designed for you. I'd been mulling it forever since I saw that had happen to you from both sides of the equation. Totally might have gotten away with it if SpyreX/Fate hadn't replaced in.

<- Should really remember that his instincts are good for scumhunting, not playing scum.

Also bad ideas are... uh... really bad, no matter how epically funny they are to do. Life lessons from scum

On the plus side, the next time you're an SK and scum claim to out you you have a game to reference for scum thinking it's really funny to do against you!

PEDIT: LLD... that is seriously awesome. But memory only takes you so far. You picked up on reasonably subtle cues that everyone else missed.

[GreyICE]

Um, I wish I had cool things to say about other things, but... I am not fond of playing scum when there's no other team to hunt. I really was stressed and on edge in this game much more so then any town game I've ever been in. A lot of that anger and stuff was fueled by actual stress. When I could scumhunt AND was scum, it was kinda like being masons with a night kill, only there was no real stress to the scumhunting - I could be kinda shitty about it, just lowered my chance of being NKed.

PEDIT: LOL, yeah, I enjoyed that one.

[GreyICE]

One thing I should mention: I have Photogeaphic memory.

So I was immediately able to draw he comparison by looking back through my internal of folders of games.

Wait, really?

That's fucking awesome.

It also gives chronic headaches... But we all have trade offs.

All I know is that my post in this game where I outlined all of UT's votes and the wagons he did and his scum intent behind them... Was all done from memory on my iPhone. >.>

That's amazing!

I have a good memory, but that level of detail? No. Fucking. Way.

[GreyICE]

But do you want that kind of detail for all aspects of life?

Certain things can't be unseen... And with photographic memory that becomes a very vivid image that can't be unseen...

Yes I'm traumatized. Yes it probably made me a horrible person.

Not saying I think it's always a plus, but helll... it's a great skill! I'd be interested in trying it for a while, at least

[GreyICE]

Kat, I know. I know.

@GreyICE: if you want, try this. Find an angle of the room you are in, look at it, and close your eyes. Try to re-construct the room as accurately as you can.

I can remember major details, I can remember even minor things. Can I tell you the number of empties we have in our recycling bin, or what exactly is on the counter, or even perfectly remember colors? No. I remember the big portions, but the little things? They're gone.

[GreyICE]

It's Fate.

Fate, thank you for replacing in btw. Okay, maybe not necessarily when I was scum and all, but it was really big of you to wade through this mess and try to make something out of it.

[GreyICE]

I thought I was honest that I wasn't particularly overwhelmed by my play this game.

I just never saw reason to go "oh no, what if I'm doing really terribly here?" I just figured keep rolling forward as if I know what I'm doing, because stopping to ask "does my play look townish enough" is REALLY scummy.

[GreyICE]

Oh! Do I get half points for at least being one of the first to be right about CD's townness, even if I was ridiculously rude about it ^-^?

Oh come on, I think I called him town before then.

Oh right, I cheated.

Am I the only one who thinks he didn't play that badly this game?

[GreyICE]

I don't want to start a bottom three because believe it or not, I only have one player that I think actually played badly enough to be called out on it, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Kitten, why would you ever put CooLDoG on that list over HavingFitz? I was not joking, I didn't think it was POSSIBLE for anyone to guess he was town if he'd been janitored.

[GreyICE]

Yeah, that's the big problem, as I said. But, hey, I have new secret tech to help with that :O

Alcohol!

[GreyICE]

*sigh*

Should I? I generally hate large games, but... it might be fun.

[GreyICE]

*sigh*

Should I? I generally hate large games, but... it might be fun.

Large games can certainly be fun but I think suffer from the same problems, amplified, that Minis suffer from -

They are more suspectible to damage done by true VI players
They accumulate pages quickly and are harder to replace player for that reason
More players and roles leaves even more room for potential mistakes.

I'm not saying avoid them .. I'm saying tred carefully.

Untrod - good luck with your game. My only advice would be to keep on top of the Mod management end of the game much more than you did in ATHF Mafia. Frequent vote-counts and prompt opening and closing of Nights is important to the flow of a game.

My play also suffers, as people don't interact with each other, then I lose track of the lurkers, then I get increasingly frustrated trying to generate reads.

Vi suggested I adopt SerialClergyman's "People who don't die today" list, and I think I will.

[GreyICE]

Lessee, mistakes we made:

HavingFitz - posting, being born, posting
Katsuki - laziness, that claim
Zang - Posting, breathing
CooLDoG - less than I expected tbh. Which ain't an overwhelming compliment
GreyICE - claiming scum in thread not good idea
Mina - lurking, bad reads, lurking, IoA, lurking
Ghostwriter - he was in this game?
Fate - town read on LLD
StrangerCoug - creating the spot that could not be salvaged
SpyreX - replacing into the spot that could not be salvaged (aka random.org)
AGM - raging, general inactivity, too easy to buddy
UT - days 1 and 2, in general

Mariyta/LLD - minor nitpicks, compared to the above.

Anyway, if LLD and Fate are joining that "large" I'll almost have to.

[GreyICE]

Oh and AKR. Uh... AKR.

Um... lessee. Zang+HF < AKR

[GreyICE]

Mariyta/LLD has been town.

Though oddly with the "UT/SpyreX would have shot AGM" logic, the last day could have been a real cinch.

[GreyICE]

doubt its thsoe three.

PLUS LLD CANT FOOL ME ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Oh yeah, this quote.

You have no idea how hard this made me laugh.

<3

[GreyICE]

Laziness?

If multiple V/LAs then falling behind in the game = laziness, then sure.

Uh, well...

Eh, you shouldn't have been lynched except for the claim, and I think you could have easily redeemed yourself day 2, you weren't doing terrible, so lets just leave it at the claim.

[GreyICE]

Eh, mostly talking you were absent like hell on day 2.

Might have been scum paranoia, you were the only posts I really cared about that day.

BTW, can we see the silly ass neighbor thread?

[GreyICE]

It's less about 'nailing' things and more about convincing other people you nailed them.

HavingFitz was a jester though, so I can't say that play was too bad.

[GreyICE]

Uh, I can't think of too much you did wrong, tbh. You and Mari played the best from the original player list.

[GreyICE]

Uh, I can't think of too much you did wrong, tbh. You and Mari played the best from the original player list.

What's this? You complementing the "Turbo Cunt"?

<3 UK

Hahaha, yeah

Sorry I played that scummy little game with you UK, I really do owe you an honest apology.