Mini 1113 - Brotherhood of the Wolf Mafia

[Untrod Tripod]

vote Reck

obvscum

[Untrod Tripod]

@UT, really obv scum? Is that your best rvs vote reason? Also I think we are out of RVS...

citation needed

[Untrod Tripod]

Yeah, but if we are to assume 10:3 mountainous, then why would Mafia want to turn it into 9:2 so badly?

E6) Expect the unexpected. Do not assume that standard expectations are applicable to the game.

Relevant

[Untrod Tripod]

unvote, vote Katsuki

go go gadget bandwagon

[Untrod Tripod]

unvote, vote Katsuki
go go gadget bandwagon

And then within the next 3-4 posts people are like, "OMG we're out of RVS." If we're out of RVS then "go go gadet bandwagon" isn't an acceptable vote. Yes?

But me personally, I don't care much about that. I'm liking my vote on Mariyta right now. Because this "people haven't posted" thing when it's page 2 and half the playerlist hasn't posted is 1) silly 2) forced scumhunting 3) smells like fake trying to appear town.

Way to bookmark your position on me so you can come back for a vote by saying you "found me suspicious at the beginning". That's not extremely garden variety fakehunting or anything

Also, early bandwagoning is not the same thing as thinking it's still RVS. I'd rather not devolve into a theory discussion now though, that won't do us any good at all.

[Untrod Tripod]

Hey guys. Really sorry about not posting. Angry playstyles like Reck's make me clam up and I was finding it easier to watch what happened in relation to me lurking than to start participating. That ends now.

I have reread and am going to be doing some ISOs over the next day or so to make up for my lack of posting.

I find two things very odd:
1. Reck's miller claim
2. This quote:

As for reading my posts before posting them, I do, but I rarely feel the need to edit them. You know why? I'm town, and my thought processes reflect that. I have nothing to hide. If I make a seeming contradiction, perhaps rather than saying "OH MAI GAWD U CONTRADICK *hurr hurr* ED URSLF!!", you should THINK for two seconds about just HOW said contradiction benefits scum.

"I am so town I don't need to edit my posts if they don't make sense". Are you fucking serious? There is ABSOLUTELY no town benefit to bad posting. Period. End of story. Claiming otherwise is anti-town.

That being said, I want to address one thing first: UK's "case" on me. The first comment about how "no one is voting for UT" was weird, but at this point it's getting scummy. I don't think D1 it's scummy, exactly, to be making a case for lynching a lurker, but I find the case troubling. I'm going to post all of the relevant UK quotes on the subject here:

... you know what's REALLY wierd? I see UTs name being thrown about but no actual votes on him. How disturbing.

Unvote, Vote Untrod Tripod
FoS: AGM

I would have done it in the opposite order but I find it incredibly odd that somehow UT has been dodging votes.

@havingfitz: Why did you unvote Untrod Tripod? When are you going to provide a top suspect?

Where did I say I disliked the attack? I said it was more sound than his attack on Mari, just that in isolation I wasn't sure if there was anything strong enough to commit to on UT.

When combined with the fact that UT ~*~magically~*~ has no votes despite no less than three people expressing suspicion of him, THEN we have some shenanigans.

Basically, I think AGM is kinda poking UT so if UT flips, he can be like "I KNEW IT!", while not starting the wagon on UT. It's a weak case but I think it's a good start. Really, both AGM and UT are fully lynchable to me, at this time.

/me notes CooLDoG failing to vote

his scumbuddy

UT.

I suspect AGM because he seems to acknowledge everything wrong with Untrod Tripod but uses significantly weaker reasoning to vote Mariyta.

I suspect Untrod Tripod since he has done effectively nothing of value, but for some reason a lot of people suspect him...without him getting much votes. I find it VERY INTERESTING that he's evaded votes while getting so much attention.

So the logic is that I am scummy
1. Because I have lurked
2. People have voiced suspicion of me without voting. These people are my scumbuddies.

As far as point 1 goes, fair. I think trying to lynch a lurker when you have scummy vibes coming from Reck's slot and CooLDoG is bad news bears, but whatever.
For point 2, what the fuck? If I were scum, why would my scum buddies voice suspicion of me but not vote? That would look super bad if either of us got lynched. Is your point that all of those people are "coaching" me? It would be pretty stupid of my scum buddies to establish an unnecessary connection to me. But I suppose your argument looks pretty good. Until you think about it. It just doesn't make sense for one scum to say at another scum "HEY YOU LOOK SCUMMY". It would make a lot more sense for one of us to be. I think trying to establish a scum connection between me and CooLDoG (or really, anyone else who's jumping on my bandwagon) is scummy. The logical explanation for why a player would have suspicion on them but few votes is because

the player isn't doing anything all that scummy

. Trying to extrapolate connections between players with so little evidence is weird, paranoid and anti-town.

I guess the real point I'm trying to make here is that UK is trying to make something out of nothing in making a case on me. In making this case, he is assuming that I am scum because I am not being voted for. This is bad logic and it is anti-town.

UK is my top scumpick at the moment, so:

vote UK

I will comment more later. I find LMP's entrance weird, what with putting a vote on me and then taking it off, but I will reserve judgment on that for later. More ISOs coming up.

[Untrod Tripod]

EBWOP:

It just doesn't make sense for one scum to say at another scum "HEY YOU LOOK SCUMMY". It would make a lot more sense for one of us to be.

should read

It just doesn't make sense for one scum to say at another scum "HEY YOU LOOK SCUMMY" without voting or at least trying to make a case. It would make a lot more sense for only one of us to be scum.

[Untrod Tripod]

You know, I find it hard to believe in OMGUS...but...seriously, UT's attack on me is about the closest damn thing I have EVER had the misfortune of seeing to it.

Try harder, thanks.

Discrediting an argument by simply calling it bad is a lot easier than actually proving it wrong. Ironic that you ended that with "try harder".

UT really needs to die though.

Why? Can you provide any reasoning for that beyond "he's scummy" and "more people aren't voting for him"? I mean, I think if we lynched me it would probably provide the town with some good info, but I'd prefer to help the town in other ways.

UT is a n00b

We have differing definitions of the word "n00b", clearly. I think what you meant to say was "UT is a bad player". That has a lot less of a ring to it, but it's what you meant.

Anyhow, I promised opinions on the other players in the game, so...

StrangerCoug, leaning scum

Looking through SC's ISO, I see very little scumhunting and a whole lot of theory discussion and weasel words. He makes some decent points about Reck, but at this point the discussion about that slot really should be more about LMP than his predecessor. SC's and AGM's argument about Reck is just dragging on and getting into pointless semantics. AGM has moved onto other things, SC has not. I find this lack of proactive posting and scumhunting to be suspicious. UK pointed this out earlier...hmm...

AKR, null

Hasn't really said much, and his posts so far have been reiterative. He parked his vote on CD right after Reck claimed and it's stayed there. Still, I don't think he's done anything overtly scummy. It looks less like he's trying to fly under the radar and more that he just doesn't have anything to say. However, CD and Katsuki are pretty easy places for a scum to put votes and not get called out on providing fresh reasoning for the vote, which AKR didn't really do.

GW, leaning town

Hasn't said much. His points about the Katsuki wagon come across to me as town. Would like to hear his thoughts on more recent developments in the game.

fitz, leaning town

Also hasn't said all that much. His points on Mariyta and Reck seem town to me.

As far as D1 lynches go...you [reck] are a better option ATM IMO than anyone else.

that was his last post. I would be curious to hear what he thinks of LMP's play.

katsuki, null

Not sure what to say about katsuki. I don't find his/her content to be town or scum. Just kinda null. I don't find Katsuki linking that game to show alignment one way or the other, it's just kind of weird and irrelevant.

More soon

[Untrod Tripod]

I've changed my mind about UK.

Unvote UncertainKitten

. That was a stupid OMGUS-y vote. That'll teach me to read the entire game before responding to a case. In context of the rest of her posts, may be a terribad case, but it's a terribad case by a town player. Let us never speak of this again.

As promised, my reads on the rest of the players in the game:

Zang, scum

Not in love of Zang's posting style, but I promise that what bugs me isn't his style. His strategy of only posting quotes and responding to them with one-liners (often asking pointless questions) strikes me as fluffy. Also the last vote was for Reck and was based on flavor. Also his "suspicions" strike me as very go-with-the-flow and less as scumhunting. Rubs me the wrong way.

Mariyta, town

Mariyta's posting strikes me as town. I don't really have anything to say about her ISO.

AlmasterGM, leaning town

Almaster is doing a lot of scumhunting and pointing out the weaknesses in other players' games. Despite the angry playstyle, his posting feels town motivated to me. I don't agree with a lot of the things he's said (like the "only scum would ragequit" argument and calling me a n00b), but those things don't affect his alignment.

LynchMePls Reckamonic, null

I mentioned the miller claim a while back and never expounded on it. I find the miller claim really weird and cannot figure out a town-motivated reason for it. I find it a lot more likely that it'd be a scum gambit. However, the whole rage-quit thing makes me think that maybe the reasoning for the claim was completely illogical so I shouldn't base my LMP read on it too much. LMP's posting seemed good to me, but I also know that his mafia meta is really town.

Mina, leaning scum

At first I read through Mina's ISO and thought "hmm, this is decent posting. Her thing on me in her ISO post 2 was pretty bad and looked like fakehunting, but maybe she thinks shameless bandwagoning at the beginning of D1 is scumtell so it doesn't mean anything". The rest of it looked pretty good, she was asking all the right questions to all the right people, so I was going to write her off as town. Then I realized she hadn't cast a vote since the beginning of the game. At this point, being this hesitant to cast a vote (and thus make a strong statement about who is town or scum) is scummy. I don't think someone can not fall on one side of the fence on the case for one of CooLDoG, LMP/Reck or me. The lack of voting looks scummy to me.


Now that I'm caught up on reading and whatnot, maybe I can stop being such a failure lurker. Moving on...

_____________________________________________________


I could, of course, be horribly wrong about all this.


So my picks for scum after a reread and ISO-fest are Zang, Mina and SC.

I'll

vote Zang

[Untrod Tripod]

@lmp, yeah comment on me.

Read my ISOs 1 and 6. I've already done this.

Probably not a good plan to tell us to read back through your ISO. In doing so, I notice there's very little in it. There's two posts that could be considered content. ISO #1 is mainly a quote wall with very little analysis and a whole lot of what I didn't like from Zang. ISO #6 has...some analysis, but it's extremely limited. It's mostly saying "read my earlier post". There are three other posts saying only "I said these things earlier" and a couple of other fluff posts. I realize that LMP came into a bad slot and his Zang-esque quote post may have looked like content at the time, but at this point it's stretching very little content very thin. Also this quote is bad news bears

Mary: Interactions between CD and UT. Specifically those discussed in 180.

Looks good on the surface, but CD and I haven't had any interactions. And you barely discussed me at all. This was, of course, in the post where you said a lot about other people and then voted me for no reason. I'm an easy target, and people probably wouldn't question you saying that a suspicious person is suspicious. It is however a bogus analysis and now that not is blindly jumping on the lurker maybe they'll listen to my analysis.

On the Fence

Mariyta: Contrary to StrangerCoug, I've started feeling worse about her. I can usually see her POV, but after ISO-ing her, I'm disappointed with what's there. Aside from a lot of flavour speculation, her scumhunting consists mostly of quick, safe, obvious points and agreeing with other players. She's passive and tends to go after easy targets. Any mediocre scum player could play D1 the way she has so far.

Something also felt off about her jump from UT to CD--not that she didn't adequately

justify

it, but that her overall pattern of behaviour was just very much how I'd expect scum to react. "Oh, so UK is wagoning Untrod Tripod. Sure, I agree that he's scummy. Well, now CD is the popular wagon. Come to think of it, yeah, this easy target is scummy for these reasons. Why don't I jump from UT over there?" Yes, this sounds completely crazy when I try to articulate it, but it rubbed my gut the wrong way. But I need to see more from her before I can judge.

I can't really defend against this because that describes me very well. I'm a cautious player. I don't like to be wrong, so I tend to play it safe, as both town and scum. I wasn't following the "popular" wagons, though. Just the people I felt were/are scummiest at the time.

Oh no, the "I'm a cautious player" defense. I've definitely used that as scum. The weird thing is, I wouldn't have described your playstyle as "cautious". I still think Mariyta is town, but there's finally a chink in the town armor.

I'm not in love with Mina's distancing from her own arguments here. Stand by your analysis or don't make them. Saying "I think these things are scummy, but gosh, seeing it written out makes it look kind of crazy!" is bad bad bad. Not making a definite stance of "I think these things and they are true in my opinion" is bad. I'd rather see the rest of your analysis before I start demanding you place a vote, but this analysis is continuing to look a lot like what I didn't like about your earlier wishy-washy, voteless posting.

[Untrod Tripod]

Probably not a good plan to tell us to read back through your ISO. In doing so, I notice there's very little in it

Hey, dumbass, that's cause I'm a replacement. Are you really this stupid?

Almost all of your posts were on page 8 (the two with "content" were, to make matters worse). I loved the part where you left out the rest of what I said and didn't respond to it. That's tech.

[Untrod Tripod]

ok, mod, I don't understand. Why have my last two votes failed to enter the votecount?

Short story is -

1. You voted Katsuki as your last valid vote at ISO 3.
2. At ISO 5 where you wanted to vote UK you didn't unvote. Not valid.
3. At ISO 8 you Unvoted UK. Per the rules it's not an valid unvote as you specified a player you were not voting for.

Yeah, I know I'm kinda being a dick. The voting rules are set-up to ensure as much as possible that there are no Mod oops errors that result in flips that shouldn't be. I appreciate everyone's understanding.

[Untrod Tripod]

Ok then...

unvote Katsuki, vote Zang

[Untrod Tripod]

Why do you think I'm scum?

Not in love of Zang's posting style, but I promise that what bugs me isn't his style. His strategy of only posting quotes and responding to them with one-liners (often asking pointless questions) strikes me as fluffy. Also the last vote was for Reck and was based on flavor. Also his "suspicions" strike me as very go-with-the-flow and less as scumhunting. Rubs me the wrong way.

Try using "Reading". It's at the bottom of your tech tree. It's right below "Understanding", which is a few notches below "Critical Thinking". Oh and btdubs, "rubs me the wrong way" means "his playstyle rubs me the wrong way", as in I think you're scum and need to be lynched.



Also, I want to respond to something you lied about. I will use direct quotes.

My vote also said nothing about flavor

So you first claim miller without flavor, then claim flavor without a rolename, then you claim the wrong name.

Unvote 
Vote: Reckamonic

Unless by "my vote said nothing about flavor" you mean "my vote was entirely about flavor", you just straight up lied there, dude.

Totally happy with my vote.

[Untrod Tripod]

"Comment on everything". LOL. KMA dude.

You don't get to just not participate.

Still, CD, you need to chill the fuck out.

[Untrod Tripod]

sigh.

unvote Zang

I don't like the AKR wagon. This game is stagnating like hell and we need some more information to get the game going. If nothing else, maybe it will get LMP to start participating. SC was a scumread for me, so I can get behind this.

vote StrangerCoug

[Untrod Tripod]

Also what's with the SC wagon? It built up pretty fast. UKs vote reads to me a bit opportunistic, as well as UTs.

do you...do you not know how to read?

I'm kind of serious about that.

[Untrod Tripod]

UT improved a lot but then disappeared, which is kinda lame. So, sure, let's put UT in second for now.

Since the AGM/Zang claim, all that's really happened, imo, is
-mudslinging
-LMP made a bullshit case on me
-Mariyta sheeped it

I'd rather not get involved in the mudslinging. Also, I kind of doubt I'm going to change LMP's mind, considering that the case is based on purposefully misreading/misrepresenting things I said.

oh, @mina

I agree that his sheepish unvote of UK was bad (and he ignored my question about what changed his read on UncertainKitten besides everyone completely laughing his vote off)

What happened was when I originally started my read I didn't read UK's ISO very carefully. When I went back and read her ISO more carefully I realized I was completely wrong in my read of her.

[Untrod Tripod]

-Mariyta sheeped it

I like how you just write off my vote so you don't actually have to answer the points I made against you. Sheeping does not apply in this case. Sheeping is following blindly. I did not follow blindly. I agreed with him after I did my own read.

Fine, let's look at your "read".

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

UT: Don't like the "I don't want to discuss theory" deflection from ISO#4

I don't like theory discussions. In my experience I've never seen them benefit town. They can really easily end up as town vs. town getting into arguments about playstyle, and it's really easy for scum to take a playstyle argument and try to argue that it makes a town player scummy. The thing is, it wasn't deflection. I refuted a point that had been brought against me and said "but I really don't want to get into a theory discussion. I'll just pull out the quote.

Also, early bandwagoning is not the same thing as thinking it's still RVS. I'd rather not devolve into a theory discussion now though, that won't do us any good at all.

You see, it's not deflecting an argument, I disagreed with the assertion that early bandwagoning is the same as trying to RVS vote. I then said I would prefer for this to not get into a theory discussion. See above.

or the "angry playstyles make me clam up" excuse in ISO#5;

You're right. I don't know my own preferences. I can get caught up in internet flame wars really easily and I tend to just not say anything to avoid acting like an asshole. But thanks for calling that scummy. Really.

ISO#6 looks good on the outside, but once you delve deeper (which I never did when I first read it), you find some nasty little surprises. First, there's the "Reck's claim is very odd" comment. Well, duh. It's a miller claim

Sigh...let's pull out the Reck claim.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=15776

We caught scum. Page one.
We then lynched scum lovers from RVS wagon analysis. And caught the entire scumteam D1.

"We"? TRY RECK & PARAMA, BUT MOSTLY RECK, BECAUSE HE IS AWESOME.

Sorry guys, we didn't realize the game had started.

So how about this.

We are a miller

.

Don't forget, this was Reck's first post in the game. I don't like someone claiming miller in their FIRST POST. I don't know what to make of it. It's weird and I don't like it. I'm not sure if it makes them scum, but I find it weird to say "oh, Reck claimed miller in their first post in the game, and then ragequit. That has to be legit".

Then there's this:

For point 2, what the fuck? If I were scum, why would my scum buddies voice suspicion of me but not vote? That would look super bad if either of us got lynched.

Distancing is the obvious answer. Scum do it all the time. Like, ALL the time. WIFOM is a scum's best friend in many cases.

The assertion that people voicing suspicion of me early in Day 1 but not voting for me makes me scum is bad logic. Let's put it in the form of a syllogism

Many people have voiced suspicion of UT
Not all of those people are voting for UT
Therefore UT is scum

Yeah...not a real strong argument there. Look, I'm not saying that it's not something that would be important on say, Day 4, but early in Day 1 its a bullshit argument to make, especially when it was pretty much all you had.

The logical explanation for why a player would have suspicion on them but few votes is because the player isn't doing anything all that scummy.

If the player was doing nothing scummy, no one would accuse them of being scummy. It may just be that others are even scummier, so they got lucky w/ votes.

By the way, the entire quote is

The logical explanation for why a player would have suspicion on them but few votes is because the player isn't doing anything all that scummy. Trying to extrapolate connections between players with so little evidence is weird, paranoid and anti-town.

The rest of the quote is kind of important. My reasoning is this: You are asserting that because many people voiced some suspicion of me for lurking but did not vote, I must be scum. I assert that because many people voiced some suspicion of me for lurking but did not vote, that must be because I'm just not high enough on their scumlists to warrant a vote. Your explanation draws connections that simply aren't there. Which is what I said in the part of the quote you left out.

Then you get the sacrificial "Lynch me if you must" comment in ISO#7.

What? Oh, you mean this.

UT really needs to die though.

Why? Can you provide any reasoning for that beyond "he's scummy" and "more people aren't voting for him"? I mean, I think if we lynched me it would probably provide the town with some good info, but I'd prefer to help the town in other ways.

Because yeah, that's not at all what that means. The real point of that was "you're not providing an argument at all", not "plz lynch me!". My point was more that lynching me would make some players look bad for pushing it without having any real argument behind it.

Hey, look. Next we get a change of heart and a "My vote was bad" comment

. It was. I guess it'd be more pro-town to just push bad lynches and never own up to making mistakes. Right?

Explanation for Zang vote was meh. The last part was decent, but the first two sentences contradict each other. Then he moves his vote to SC (surprise surprise) for whom his case is just plain shite.

Ok, I'll give you this one, I wrote that extremely unclearly.

Not in love of Zang's posting style, but I promise that what bugs me isn't his style. His strategy of only posting quotes and responding to them with one-liners (often asking pointless questions) strikes me as fluffy.

Using a lot of quotes doesn't bother me and asking questions doesn't bother me. I don't love reading it, but what can you do. What I don't like is that his content is extremely poor. The questions he asks rarely seem proactive and he seems to hide behind quote walls and pads his post total by "asking questions". Also you seemed to like my case on Zang just fine earlier.

I'm gonna put my money where my mouth is.

UNVOTE: CD, VOTE: Zang

Reasons (so you don't miss them): Lack of any serious attempt at scum hunting; poses meaningless questions and fluffs his posts with quotes and useless drivel. I'll include UT's comments, as well, and I'll throw in an OMGUS for good measure.

P-edit: Because SC essentially said the same thing in different words, only you went overboard with an "OMGGUYZ, look at this! It's soooooo creepy!"

I don't see the problem with Kats' comment.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Ok maybe sheeping was not the correct term to use, but I found it weird that you had expressed some suspicion of me earlier in the day, dropped your vote on me, followed me onto the Zang wagon stating that you agreed with my case on him, and then took a 180 on me following LMP posting a case on me and and made your own WHICH USED MY ARGUMENT AGAINST ZANG AS A POINT AGAINST ME and moved your vote back to me. It seemed like you said to yourself "oh, I can probably get back on this mislynch pretty easily without anyone noticing. I dunno if it's sheeping, exactly, but it definitely seemed like you were trying to ride on LMP's coattails in voting for me.

[Untrod Tripod]

@AGM
Since only 5 votes are needed at deadline, you would probably be better served by pushing the lynch you agree with. 5 votes on SC would not be hard to come by.

[Untrod Tripod]

It is actually common practice for millers to claim right off the bat. It's going to cause WIFOM anyway, but the WIFOM is a gazillion times worse if they wait to claim until they are accused.

Better get used to it, because its pretty commonly accepted correct miller play.

I haven't seen it before, but I believe you.

[Untrod Tripod]

We have to lock down on something. The way to do this is by forging an alliance between logical people who will act rationally (AKA TEAM VI SLAYERS) and then forcing one or two VIs to work with us.

LMP, Mina, UK, and Mariyta - list your top 3 scumreads.

We will lynch the person who is most mutually agreeable to all of us.

Did I just get called a VI?

It's ok, I'm a "VI" too. Obviously we should form a "VI" alliance. There's more of us, after all.

[Untrod Tripod]

GhostWriter and UT aren't VIs, but they were playing the LURK-O-MATIC game until extremely recently, which is why they are currently not included. Feel free to prove your worth by being logical and not idiotic (doing a pretty good job thus far).

StrangerCoug is still coasting and being scummy, so he's also out.

I will parse through the rest of the recent walls later. Right now,

V/LA until Sunday.

The deadline is on Monday, but alright...

[Untrod Tripod]

Who else is feeling a CD lynch?

[Untrod Tripod]

unvote SC, vote CD

choo choooooooo

Seriously though, cd's play is looking to me more panicky scum than panicky town as this goes on

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm a great lynch if you're scum. Otherwise I'm a terribad lynch

[Untrod Tripod]

UK makes a good case on SC

I'm really weirded out by CD's softclaim (I totally failed to notice it too, I guess that's what happens when you make people not want to read your posts). I really, really don't want to believe that town-CD would softclaim this early, but...

unvote CD

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm really weirded out by CD's softclaim (I totally failed to notice it too, I guess that's what happens when you make people not want to read your posts). I really, really don't want to believe that town-CD would softclaim this early, but...

unvote CD

Why are you unvoting after what LynchMePls posted? It's one of the most compelling things against him now.

So you're saying that softclaiming a power role at L-3 is more likely a scum-CD gambit than town-CD idiocy...?

[Untrod Tripod]

That being said, CD seems to be taking some kind of perverse pride in his VI status. Is it possible that this was a cunning move to make us think that it's just another VI move? Yes. That possible, sure. I think it's more likely though that CD with a power role would get frustrated at this point and say "I HAVE A POWER ROLE, GUIZE".

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm good with a Kat lynch. Kat has been straight up useless all day, and the ragequit threat is just lulzy. If Kat flips scum it will be very informative to reexamine the "reads" s/he posted. I find it had to get a read on Kat, and bearing the uselessness in mind the information gotten from a Kat lynch would be far more better for the town than a no lynch.

vote Katsuki

[Untrod Tripod]

oooh and look at that scumteam swing to Katsuki.

LOOK AT THEM SWING.

If he flips town the team has pretty much just outed itself.

That said,

Unvote. Vote: Katsuki

CHOOO CHOOOOOOOOOOO

[Untrod Tripod]

As for UK, matter of opinion. I think she is scum

See, I like keeping Katsuki around because whoever he suspects tends to be town.

Relevant. We have no flips yet.

[Untrod Tripod]

My bad, UK, I didn't know that at all. Consider that comment rescinded.

[Untrod Tripod]

Suspecting you doesn’t make anyone an idiot or a moron. No need to be such a *censored*. Drink less/more coffee, get laid, or pop a few Midol please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbKZHqov ... re=related
Relevant

I'm not saying I disagree with the first sentence. But....DAMN there were better ways to say that.

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm a great lynch if you're scum. Otherwise I'm a terribad lynch

Is this another frustrated townie? I can see it. This game is enormously frustrating, and it could just be he's tired of the garbage certain posters are dumping in the thread.

Yes it was a statement out of frustration.

[Untrod Tripod]

mod, please fix my quote tag in the above post

Done

I still hold by my original read. Town meta or not, UK's 'lets get some flips!' playstyle seems enormously anti-town to me. I've seen scum go down day 1 before. I have yet to see 'well lets fucking FLIP something people' be very town. I'm not particularly pushing a UK lynch because (no matter how scummy she says this is) I have no fucking hope of getting it to pass through unless I see a lot of people disagree with me (and from what I've seen here, that's unlikely).

I will fucking circle back if we decide to "LETS FUCKING FLIP SOMETHING" on UT and he 'flips' town. I am not at all happy with the flip shit "playstyle."

I appreciate your town read on me. That being said...

I don't think that "needing a flip" is necessarily anti-town. I think a lot of us have been saying "I think getting some information from a lynch today is far, far better than not lynching at all". In fact, I'm pretty sure almost every post saying "we need a flip" has compared it to not lynching in that way. Also, why are you calling out UK for saying that and not anyone else?

Also your meta argument is really weird. "I realize that UK plays like this as town, but I think it's scum this time!" seems to be the thrust of what you're saying. Do you have any reason to disregard the meta, or did you just need to keep on truckin' with the UK case regardless of what was said?

[Untrod Tripod]

I don't think UK is the best use of your shot, CD. Ideally a vig shot doesn't make the town want to lynch the vig immediately.

Zang or Kats would be better.

ninja'd by...a lot of posts
the flavor thing is...interesting. For the record, a daykill does NOT prove CD's alignment one way or the other (as per the rules post), and him vigging a player who is by popular consensus pretty town is a really stupid move on his part whether he's town or scum. Just saying.

2nd edit

OH GOD THE POSTING. OH GOD.

3rd edit

CD - DON'T FUCKING SHOOT UK IT IS A TERRIBLE PLAY IF YOU ARE TOWN

4TH EDIT

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

yeah, I could get behind a Kat vig

[Untrod Tripod]

Where the hell did that come from?

Also, intriguingly enough, I'd more suspect HF over Kat.

Basically, when I made my initial guess, I forgot that HF had also been poking me with bad logic.

As it stands, I'd put HF/GreyICE as the team, with Kat as an outlier. Kat is just probably wrong.

IMO, it came from CD realizing that daykilling doesn't make him look town so he needed to not vig a popular-consensus-town-player so he won't get lynched, so he picked a low-impact kill

I forgot about HF too. Must be all the not posting at all. Hell, I think he deserves daykilling for the Midol comment alone. JK.

Edit 1

I also prefer HF to Kats.

[Untrod Tripod]

GI - we have 72 hours, waiting another 5 on the vig shot is not terrible. Chill the fuck out. The worst thing we could do is let CD decide who to vig on his own by rushing the shot

also...turbo cunt?

Mari - did you not see GI turning into HULK ICE, WITH THE POWER OF SWEARING once the game got more frustrating? I don't think him being a jackass deserves a vig shot. HF is pretty guilty of that too.

Edit 1

Yeah...just a little bit though

[Untrod Tripod]

I'M PISSED BECAUSE HE COMES ON HERE AND DECLARES HIMSELF TWO USEFUL POWER ROLES TO THE TOWN, RIGHT BEFORE HE BLOODY FLAKES INTO V/LA. THEN HE COMES BACK

DURING V/LA

AND THREATENS SOMEONE, FLIPS TO SOMEONE ELSE, THINKS ABOUT SOMEONE ELSE, THEN WANDERS OFF. WHY NOT SUBMIT THE FITZ SHOT? OR THE UK SHOT? OR SOMETHING? BUT NO, HE JUST LEAVES THE THREAD.

WHAT'S THERE TO FIGURE OUT IF YOU'RE TOWN? YOU TAKE YOUR SHOT AT THE SCUMMIEST PERSON, YOU LET US LYNCH WITH THE RESULTS OF THAT SHOT, YOU DIE DURING N1. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE FUCKING HOLD UP IS. THIS IS RIDICULOUS!

I DON'T EXPECT HIM TO LIVE HIS BLOODY LIFE ON MAFIASCUM. BUT HE CAN FIND A LESS

SCUMMY

WAY TO DO IT. WATCH, WE DEADLINE LYNCH SOMEONE ELSE THEN HE'S ALIVE ON DAY 2. ALL LIKE "LOL, PEOPLE I GUESS THE SCUM DIDN'T WANT TO KILL ME HURR DURR."

THIS IS INFURIATING.

[Untrod Tripod]

vote: force replace CooLDoG

this is a really good idea

[Untrod Tripod]

After sleeping on it I find ether a havingfitz, or a UT day-vig in the towns best interest. I personally like a UT shot. Any objections to that?

Yes. On several levels.
First of all (the moronic level of defense) I'm town, so there's that.

Second of all, you seem to have no intention of helping the town with your dayvig shot. A dayvig shot is is a chance for the town to get some free information and get rid of a scummy/useless player. You seem to just be like la dee dah who can I kill who will just be a kill and not affect me much. My death won't provide the town with all that much useful info because pretty much everyone has been for lynching me at some point today. I, knowing my alignment, know that it would be a wasted kill on a town player. You, not knowing my alignment, should realize that it's pretty much a shot in the dark on a player who won't give you any info with their death. From your perspective I should be more of a lynch candidate than a vig candidate.

Your dayvig shot should ideally point the town in the direction of a more informed lynch. If you shoot me you are just wasting both the shot and valuable time we could be spending making a more informed lynch.

Third, You seem intent on vigging a target with a low risk-to-reward. Here's the thing, I said that thing about vigging someone who won't get you flak to see where you'd run with it to get a tell on your alignment, and you seem to have gone in the scummy direction. However I forgot that you are *extremely* open to suggestion, so that wasn't as much of a tell as I thought. That being said, you are not looking like a town player by refusing to shoot someone you think is scum and instead waiting for a democratic decision (voted on by at least 3 anti-town players) on how to use YOUR ability.

@UT, defend your vote-hopping, or face the end of a loaded gun.

It's day one, we need a lynch, and I'd prefer for the wagon to not be me? Also, a. it wasn't that much vote hopping b. it came with reasons c. do you really think that threat scares me? really? Kiss my ass. You're the one who is going to look scummy if I die. I know my "vote-hopping" had town motivations. Your motivations for dayvigging me are starting to look extremely anti-town.

@having, I would agree with you. But most of the town doesn't.

You get to have your own opinions. Stop asking for us to do things for you.

@GreyICE
It's pretty much been extremely rude and uncalled for when they've done it too. If you hadn't noticed, the real issue is in you one specific thing you said. This is not that hard, dude.


All that being said, if I get vigged, I want the town to do themselves a couple of favors:
1. Reread Mariyta. She's been hardcore wagoning me all day, and it smacks of trying to jump on an easy target. I will flip town if I get vigged, so do yourselves a favor and reread her if that happens.
2. Reread the wagon that built up on me. There are a few players who jumped on it for really weak reasons or telegraphed a vote for later, and my flipping town will make them look super bad.
3. Stop being dicks to each other. The rage is obscuring your focus on logical play.

I'm not posting again until CD vigs. If this is my last post in the game, it's been fun playing with all of you.

<3,
Untrod

[Untrod Tripod]

Deal with it, the pm is already sent...

I said kat? I meant HF... my bad. I would lynch kat if it wasn't for the vig. But I think kat is more likely to be scum. Killing hf now because zang hasn't posted.

vig has just been sent. After the flip, any objection to a hammer?

Does not compute. Whatever. Let's see the flip.

Mm...actually, we'll probably want to analyze the flip, so I'd like people to have a little time to do that.

Agreed. We have until 2/10 to lynch, so we can analyze after the flip.

unvote Kats

so as to prevent any possible threshhold/quicklynch tomfoolery. I'm willing to hammer, I just want to make sure the lynch wouldn't happen immediately.

[Untrod Tripod]

I have no plans on claiming at this particular point in time.

You will probably have to tomorrow if you want to have any hope of living.

[Untrod Tripod]

EBWOP: by tomorrow I meant after the quickhammer.

[Untrod Tripod]

and by quickhammer I meant dayvig. That'll teach me to post quickly.

to apologize for that, here is a funny picture of Kevin Love:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5178/542 ... 8d2667.jpg

[Untrod Tripod]

OH FOR FUCKS SAKE. MOD CAN YOU FIX THAT TAG PLZ

[Untrod Tripod]

oh good point

unvote Katsuki

[Untrod Tripod]

Admitting you're wrong is scumtell. Obvs.

[Untrod Tripod]

@HF: Give us a full TOWN/SCUM list before you croak!
I still think CD should swing. I'm thinking 3pp or just plain scum.

For the benefit of the remaining town...UK, Ghostwriter, and LMP need to swing IMO. Most definitely UK for being all over the place with her suspicions, never presenting a case on me, and as a non game related bonus....for being herself in this game.

With all due respect, I'm not sure HF's scumlist is worth much.

CD is a better lynch than UK for today, imo.

[Untrod Tripod]

I did not get time to read last night, and will not have time today (tuesday is my busiest day of the week). So if you're gonna lynch, at least give my replacement a chance. Otherwise I'm staying in and hopefully making a difference D2.

And to hell am I letting my mislynch go though without a fight. Considering that I feel that more scum than less are behind the driving wheel.

you're sending mixed messages

[Untrod Tripod]

poi·son [póyz'n]
noun (plural poi·sons)
1. toxic substance: a substance that causes illness, injury,

or

death if taken into the body or produced within the body

How is it possible that you are this bad at reading?

[Untrod Tripod]

Biologically, poisons don't just kill, they can also knock a person unconcious.

^Webstered, death ass hole. And a poisoner is normally a delayed vig. Thus I read that you claimed poisoner and I thought of the normal definition.

then in response to my question to him

because I want too. But death is still possible. Aka more likely. He's just bsing now. That is the point.

then Zang said

What CooLDoG posted is true. Katsuki said that poison does not kil, CooLDoG pointed out that it is possible.

[Untrod Tripod]

People are wrong and misvig/mislynch all the time. The fact that you felt the need to go "oh gosh, I was wrong" is scummy. Obviously you were wrong. Do you often make posts to point out that the sun rises every day and that water is wet? To top it off is the "oh schucks, back to the drawingboard" at the end. And the self flagellating "I clearly need it".

What is the scum motivation for this?

This really bugged me too. LMP is usually a much better scumhunter than this. Either UK has been REALLY pissing him off this game, or maybe we just found LMP's first scumslip. There's also the possibility that I should listen to LMP and log that as scummy on UK's part. I was initially dismissive of LMP on this point, but I respect his mafia skills enough that I think I should be willing to consider his argument. Will think on this more come tomorrow.

Katsuki, I'm willing to hammer you. You need to expand on your abilities NOW so maybe you can save yourself from this lynch. It's not looking good for you right now.

[Untrod Tripod]

No, LMP is basically full of it. I'm not sure if it makes him scum, but he's said at least two incredibly silly things trying to implicate me with them. His little "meta" example was pretty obviously busted for the reasons both GW AND myself brought up. As for this whole "I was wrong" thing, at best he's using a wikitell, which would be incredibly dumb to do anyway.

This is exactly what it is troubling to me. LMP is usually better than this.

[Untrod Tripod]

wtf did I claim vig
Poison is a modified JK. Target loses ability to post in QT amongst other things.

Jesus I swear you guys are choosing not to read.

what things? MAKE A BETTER ROLECLAIM OR GET HAMMERED. Jesus tittyfucking christ you are making it really hard to let you live

[Untrod Tripod]

Was that so hard? I'm not sure I believe you, though.

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm super not excited by how many steps it took for you to make a real roleclaim. Not pro-town, dude

[Untrod Tripod]

must....resist...hammer....

[Untrod Tripod]

ok, fuck this honkey noise

vote Katsuki

[Untrod Tripod]

No surprise there. Anything new, or are you sticking with the same bullshit case?

[Untrod Tripod]

Kat was far from obvtown.

I don't like the UK wagon. I don't think she's scum.

[Untrod Tripod]

Oh, my bad. You're right, it's a great case. It's so great you've convinced me I'm scum.

vote Untrod Tripod

oh wait

unvote

It's been something like

18

pages since you've posted anything resembling reasoning why I'm scummy. For the past 18 pages. Literally. 18 pages. You've been doing nothing on me but saying "UT is the lynch" and "UT is scummy" with nothing to back it up. And your reasoning before that was really weak to start with. Has there really been nothing I've said in the past 18 pages worth commenting on? Also, what is with your threat? What are you going to do to not "put up with it"? Actually post a case? Dayvig me? Ragequit?



I don't get it. Prior to jumping on me I thought your play was pretty good. The tunneling perplexes me.

[Untrod Tripod]

Ok, that was kind of bitchy of me. I'd rather leave that aside for the moment because I think Mariyta is town.

I find it likely that the scum would have not used a NK last night so as to try to get us to WIFOM ourselves to death. The addition of new information, because so many of us have made our reads and cases on each other very clear, would have helped us make a better kill. As it stands, we're more likely to keep pushing yesterday's cases than make new ones. That leads me to believe that many of our current cases are not leading us anywhere useful. I think I should reread the game to see which players would benefit the most from no new cases being brought forward.

NK speculation is usually not a great plan, but I think in this case it would be good to examine how not killing someone would help scum.

[Untrod Tripod]

Vote: UT

Fucking scum is trying to figure out who the fucking doctor is. That's literally the only way I can read the above. Fuck it, fuck this reread, that was the scummiest post in the fucking thread, the end.

I find it likely that scum didn't use a NK = HEY, IF THERE'S A DOC HOWSABOUT YOU CLAIM?!

?

I don't follow.

[Untrod Tripod]

That post said kind of THE OPPOSITE of what you wanted it to say. Great work!

My point was that I think we should reread the game and come up with better cases than we have currently. How is that rolefishing?

edit 1:
facepalm

you have to read the whole thing, dude. You've been saying this for 18 pages now without providing any evidence. It's not like the game has been static. If you want people to jump on your case with you, you have to show your reasoning. You're just saying "UT is teh scumz!" and getting frustrated when no one else feels that strongly about it. Except GI apparently, but that seems to be based on a complete lack of reading comprehension

edit 2:
1) That was not, at all, what I said.
2) I never mentioned a doc.
3) My point was "I find it likely they didn't NK, so let's see if there's any motivation for no new cases being brough forward"
4) Nowhere in my post did I ask for people to bring forward night action claims

You're putting words in my mouth, GI.

[Untrod Tripod]

SHUT UP UT. DON'T FUCKING LIE AND SAY YOU DIDN'T WANT TO DISCUSS THE NIGHT KILL WHEN YOU FUCKING SAID 'LETS ALL TALK ABOUT WHAT SCUM COULD GAIN FROM NOT NIGHT KILLING.' WHAT RESPONSES ARE YOU GOING TO GET? LIKE: PERSON X SAID "WELL, IF SCUM WERE GOING TO NIGHT KILL, Y IS THE MOST TOWNIE," AND THAT'S WHO WE DID SUBMIT THE KILL ON! PERSON Z SAID 'I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU'RE DISMISSING THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE DOCTOR JUST HAS THE SCUM READ.' OOH, LOOK, WE'RE DOWN TO A FIELD OF 2 DOCTOR POSSIBILITIES KEKEKEKEKE.

THERE IS NO FUCKING MOTIVATION FOR DISCUSSING ANYTHING ABOUT THE FUCKING MATTER AT ALL. UK, YOU MAY BE WORSE FOR SUPPORTING THIS ASININE NOTION. AT LEAST ONE OF YOU IS SCUM AND I AM GODDAMN FUCKING LIGHTING THINGS ON FIRE UNTIL I FIGURE OUT WHICH.

HERE'S MY SUMMARY OF LAST NIGHT:

THERE IS NO SK
THERE IS NO NIGHT VIG
IT FUCKING CAUGHT US SCUM, THANKS TRIPOD.

You need to calm down. Nowhere in the post you are referencing did I say anything about discussing town night actions.

I find it likely that the

scum would have not used a NK last night

so as to try to get us to WIFOM ourselves to death.

That is what I said. Bold for emphasis. Nowhere in there do I say "hey, why don't we discuss night actions". In fact, if you want to read between the lines a little bit, I'm saying that if someone wanted to discuss their night action, they should stay quiet on the matter because I think it's likely that scum did not use their kill so as to get town to out a doc/rb/jk/lolwtf while drinking the delicious WIFOM. As I said before, my point was the polar opposite of what you are saying.

I want to do an analysis from the point of view that scum did NOT use their kill. Therefore any discussion of town protective/blocking roles should not happen at all.

[Untrod Tripod]

...which part of this is hard for you?

[Untrod Tripod]

I really don't get this.

I said, very specifically, that I don't want to discuss night actions. You said I was rolefishing and wanted to discuss night actions.

How are you getting "so who's the doc?" from "I don't want to discuss night actions"?

[Untrod Tripod]

MAKE IT EASY FOR ME. EXPLAIN HOW YOUR SUGGESTION COULD POSSIBLY DO ANYTHING TO HELP THE TOWN. ANYTHING AT ALL, EVER, IN ANY REALITY OR ANY UNIVERSE. DON'T KEEP INSULTING ME OR TELLING ME TO CALM DOWN, JUST EXPLAIN WHAT POSSIBLE, PRO-TOWN MOTIVATION THERE WAS.

YOU HAVE MODERATED GAMES ON THIS SITE. YOU HAVE PLAYED IN QUITE A FEW GAMES ON THIS SITE. YOU ARE NOT NEWBIEXYZ IN THE NEWBIE THREAD. I READ THE GAMES OF PEOPLE I AM PLAYING WITH. DO NOT WIFOM ME ABOUT HOW SCUM WOULD 'KNOW BETTER THAN ACT SCUMMY.' YOUR REACTION WASN'T THAT OF TOWN, IT WAS THE REACTION OF SCUM WHO WAS CAUGHT OFF GUARD AND FISHING FOR WHAT FUCKED UP THE PLAN.

IT MIGHT BE THE FIRST HONEST REACTION WE GOT OUT OF YOU ALL GAME. BUT WE FUCKING GOT IT.

Here is the basic logical disconnect that I think is happening here:
You are reading "I don't think that scum tried a NK" as "Soooooo...who blocked the scum last night?"
If I turn my head and squint really hard I can kind of see where you could get that from my first post on the subject, but I've said a couple of times now that you misread that, and I don't want to discuss town night actions. I'm not really sure what else I can do here. I don't want to discuss night actions.

I think our best move from here would be to examine what players would have the most to gain as scum by not sending in a NK.

I do not. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. want to discuss who scum might have tried to kill. I do not want to discuss if there are any town power roles.

I want to reexamine players from the perspective of scum not sending in a kill.

What really boggles my mind is that I didn't say anything about town power roles before you jumped on me. UK did. Why are you jumping on me for rolefishing when she introduced the idea that maybe there was a protective role?

also

YOU ARE FUCKING SCUMPLAINING AND TRYING TO GET OUT OF THIS BY ACTING HURT AND ATTACKING ME.

I am not doing any of these things. You haven't upset me and I'm not attacking you. I think you're misreading what I've said and refuse to acknowledge it when I point that out. That is not an attack, I just want to us to get on the same page here.

Here is an attack though: GI, this argument is strongly reminding me of arguing with a child. You are completely, 100%, absolutely, positutely WRONG in accusing me of rolefishing. This is just getting absolutely ridiculous. This argument boils down to you accusing me of saying something I didn't say and then completely flipping your shit when I point out that I didn't say that at all.

[Untrod Tripod]

Ok. Take your ball and go home.

I find it likely that the scum would have not used a NK last night so as to try to get us to WIFOM ourselves to death. The addition of new information, because so many of us have made our reads and cases on each other very clear, would have helped us make a better kill. As it stands, we're more likely to keep pushing yesterday's cases than make new ones. That leads me to believe that many of our current cases are not leading us anywhere useful. I think I should reread the game to see which players would benefit the most from no new cases being brought forward.

NK speculation is usually not a great plan, but I think in this case it would be good to examine how not killing someone would help scum.

I refuse to acknowledge your other points until you answer this, because your misread of what I said is the basis for this argument:
1. What part of this quote is rolefishing?
2. What part of this quote says that I think there was a NK and it was blocked by a doctor/rb?

I have been very clear about what I think happened. You are putting words in my mouth. You are flipping out for no reason. You are the one throwing around most of the insults.

[Untrod Tripod]

You couldn't have gotten us mixed up because neither of us were rolefishing.

[Untrod Tripod]

He's town, last post just proved it.

How? Because he called you town?
His last post didn't prove anything.

[Untrod Tripod]

I READ THE GAMES OF PEOPLE I AM PLAYING WITH. DO NOT WIFOM ME ABOUT HOW SCUM WOULD 'KNOW BETTER THAN ACT SCUMMY.' YOUR REACTION WASN'T THAT OF TOWN, IT WAS THE REACTION OF SCUM WHO WAS CAUGHT OFF GUARD AND FISHING FOR WHAT FUCKED UP THE PLAN.

IT MIGHT BE THE FIRST HONEST REACTION WE GOT OUT OF YOU ALL GAME. BUT WE FUCKING GOT IT.

Is this an oblique reference to having a scum meta read? What games did you read and how did they lead you to a scum meta?

I'm undecided on CooLDoG right now, both because his character name is such a blatant scum one and because I didn't like how his reads changed when it was time to choose a dayvig target. But I don't want to lynch him today.

Do you think he's scum or not? That quote says to me "I don't know if he's scum, but I'm pretty sure he's scum"

and he's REALLY over the top in his defences today.

Blaaaaaaaaaaatant misrep. If I thought GI was scum, I would have just ignored him. I think he's town and wanted to try to get him to understand that I wasn't rolefishing. If anyone was over the top in anything today, it was GI by the way.

First of all, before Untrod Tripod wastes lots of speculation on who would withhold a nightkill, let's just end this. After Katsuki's mislynch, we were at eleven players. A NK would have brought us back to ten, meaning we'd be in MYLO on D3 assuming three scum. But because of the no-kill, we've won a free mislynch. Any scum player who'd deliberately withhold as a strategy (particularly since night didn't last the full seventy-two hours) is a moron.

You call speculation stupid. Then you speculate. I happen to disagree about that analysis, by the way. My reasoning is that by not creating additional information, scum would be much better able to push a town mislynch (you know, kind of the like the one building on me) and then be able to get a NK tonight. Two town kills for nothing instead of two town kills at a cost of a scum member. I'm not saying it's necessarily what happened, but it seemed like a good place to start discussion. This has all gotten blown way out of proportion.

Also:

(particularly since night didn't last the full seventy-two hours)

Night 1 begins now and the deadline for action submissions is 48 hours from this post.

MoI said that night would last 48 hours, not 72 hours.

[Untrod Tripod]

UT can get himself modkilled

For what, exactly?

[Untrod Tripod]

maybe you lose another NK or something.

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiice

Rule D2. Or whatever your faction's penalty will be,

Rule D2? The one about not being a jerk?

SHUT UP TURBO CUNT, YOUR LYNCH CHAINING IS NOTED AND IGNORED FOR NOW.

I WANT SOME FUCKING EXPLANATIONS FROM COOLDOG FUCKING STAT.

Not sayin, just sayin'.

[Untrod Tripod]

I have never seen a role block and a Jail keeper in the same game. They are sorta forms of the same thing.

E6) Expect the unexpected. Do not assume that standard expectations are applicable to the game.

Relevant.

[Untrod Tripod]

Katsuki was a Roleblocker, not a Jailkeep btw.

Katsuki - Sylvia, Seductress [Town Redirector / Modified Jailkeeper] has been lynched.

[Untrod Tripod]

Creamy chicken.

@GW, already explained. Bad reactions, wishy washy votes, etc.

I hope you're not using standards from your own play to discern "good" from "bad".

If you want to talk about wishy-washy, how about how you treated your daykill yesterday? That's a hell of a lot more damning than me being on a couple of wagons for a couple of legitimately scummy players on D1. Supporting a couple of different lynches isn't scummy.

[Untrod Tripod]

no, mine isn't damning because I was putting pressure on a scummy player.

That is patently untrue. You swung between at least four vig candidates. You then "said" that you had already vigged kat but when people got angry about that, you said "oh, uh, I meant fitz". You also vascilated wildly between vigging your top scum candidate and asking people to pick the vig for you.

And it is also a 1-shot vig. Not a normal vote.

I have absolutely no clue what you mean by this. You were wishywashy and acted like you were more concerned with the town agreeing with you than hitting scum. How is that better for a daykill than a vote? This is just providing more proof that you don't know what being "good" at this game means.

[Untrod Tripod]

@UK, is your vote based on the early game, or did you just not feel like posting about later parts?

Also, while I'm quoting, "I still think Mariyta is town, but there's finally a chink in the town armor. " reads REALLY WEIRD. And scummy. Why are you looking for "chinks in town armor"?

Because you can't be completely confident in your town reads, so you should be continuing to analyze players for scummy behavior even if you're pretty sure they're town. How is it scummy to not assume that you know people's alignments?

[Untrod Tripod]

it was just supposed to be a poetic turn of phrase, but I can see where you get that distinction.

either way, what it was intended to mean was what I said in 1077

it was a vig shot, not a vote. And also I wanted their to be a town consensus on the vig kill.

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but are you just deliberately misreading this game? I told you what my problem with that was.

[Untrod Tripod]

also, @UK, post 303 was a continuation of post 218. My reads hadn't changed at that point.

also, I don't think it's entirely fair to have your reads be based on a reread up to page 15, but whatever

[Untrod Tripod]

And frankly Tripod seems to be trying to throw suspicion on everyone EXCEPT you, who he fucking scumbuddies pretty much most of day 1. "Superbusser" for Tripod? He puts little disclaimers before half his reads going "well, this is probably wrong or something, teehee" while doing his day 1 lists.

That's just patently untrue.

[Untrod Tripod]

Yeah Zang, I see you browsing the forum.

I'm sorry it had to be this way.

Come to the quicktopic and convince me you are town. Otherwise, I may be forced to turn on you.

?

[Untrod Tripod]

well except UT's bus theory, because the neighbor claim is gonna look reaaaaalllll interesting when one of them doesn't flip neighbor (smart bus was smart!)

I find it interesting that AGM started being suspicious of his neighbor after a bunch of other players started suspecting him. I'm not saying they're both scum, where did you get that?

[Untrod Tripod]

raging fuckass

Tell me, UK, how exactly does one suck a fuck?

[Untrod Tripod]

GI, if enough of us were confident enough that Katsuki was scum to lynch her, wouldn't it stand to reason that those on her wagon wouldn't want her to use her power before she died?

yes. yes it would.

also I've been reading back through to make sure I didn't miss it, I've been kind of curious over the last few pages why some players have been taking it as a given that scum have daytalk.

@UK, my reads have been a bit shaky today. I don't think we have the information to predict a scumteam. At the moment, I'm been feeling a scum read on GI, Mina and Zang

[Untrod Tripod]

@UT: Can you elaborate on all three reads?

My GI read was mostly based on his "soz, posting on painkillers" comment and the stuff he was doing at the beginning of the day. It was a really weak read and I've changed my mind based on his last couple of posts.

I don't think Mina is playing very proactively. It feels more like scum trying to look like they're scumhunting than actual scumhunting.

Zang has been playing the same game since I posted my original scum read on him. Why would it change?

It's about time to put my money where my mouth is on this one VOTE: Zang

I didn't like the LMP/Reck slot to begin with, but I feel like it could be in line with a claimed miller who isn't interested in reading the game. The replacing feels bad, but...ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I have no reason to disbelieve the miller claim at this point.

also I've been reading back through to make sure I didn't miss it, I've been kind of curious over the last few pages why some players have been taking it as a given that scum have daytalk.

The only one I see assuming scum have daytalk is Grey. Neighbors/masons usually have daytalk, from my limited experience. Scum typically do not.

I was being polite about GI assuming things you can't know.

E6) Expect the unexpected. Do not assume that standard expectations are applicable to the game.

How many times do I have to repost this before it sticks?

[Untrod Tripod]

The replacing feels bad, but...ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I have no reason to disbelieve the miller claim at this point.

@ut, nice 180 there about the lmp slot. You were never really for the lmp/reck lynch. Scummy posting here.

"I believe the miller claim" does not mean "I want to lynch LMP". What is wrong with you?

[Untrod Tripod]

But you have never been skeptical of lmps play until now, just saying.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p2755610
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2756494
just saying

Here's the process, CD
1. Read
2. Think
3. Draft
4. Edit
5. Post

You're leaving out almost all of this.

[Untrod Tripod]

also
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2782585

[Untrod Tripod]

both posts show no intention of wanting to farther pursue a lmp investigation, you seem to only be able to fish up 3 posts out of 50 pages that you have about lmp. 363 shows no suspicion of lmp as scummy, and 321 infers it but nothing more. In the third link you are still contemplating if you should even consider lmp as scummy. With the possibility that lmp isn't making a mistake at all.

skep·ti·cal   
2. showing doubt

a. LMP has been a really low-impact player this game, not much to comment on.
b. I don't think he's scum

My ultimate point is that it's not at all a 180. I never said I want to lynch him. I still don't want to lynch him. End of discussion.

[Untrod Tripod]

okay its a 90 then. But what ever, I think you are on the fringe town anyway.

The urge to type this in all caps is immense.

My day 1 position: I don't want to lynch LMP. I don't think he's scum.
My beginning of day 2 position: I don't want to lynch LMP. I don't think he's scum.
My current day 2 position: I don't want to lynch LMP. I don't think he's scum.
Point out where the change is (protip: there isn't one)

[Untrod Tripod]

Man, it would be awesome if Zang did his own talking instead of having his neighbor do it for him.

[Untrod Tripod]

UT may, in fact, be scum (there was a happy moment and a throwaway vote on Zang I don't like).

This point is bad and you should feel bad. Yeah, I'm Zang's obvbuddy, THAT'S WHY I STARTED THE CASE ON HIM. Right. Makes perfect sense.

Untrod Tripod, when you hammered Katsuki, did you know that he had an ability he wanted to use?

Way to totally miss the point. I didn't think Katsuki was town. And even if Katsuki was town, I had every confidence that if he got off the ability it would do damage to the town. Why WOULDN'T I hammer in that situation? This is very simple, and it was very simple the other time(s?) that it's been asked of me and I gave this exact same answer.

With all due respect to AGM, I think analyzing the Zang wagons are more fruitful places to find scum than lynching GI for his "scumslip". Even if it was a scumslip, I think GI's play has had enough "LOL WUT" moments that you can't count that as a bona fide scumslip. Hell, we might even find GI in a bad place on those wagons (oh wait, completely avoiding it then WHOOPS "accidental" hammer)

I'll have to do a closer re-read to determine that.

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm also still happy with a UT lynch.

What else is new. Given that Zang flipped scum I cannot possibly see how your read of me hasn't changed but whatever. I mean, let's think about this, Zang is cruising along at page 13 without getting any votes while I'm getting a fair amount of suspicion. OBVIOUSLY THE CORRECT MOVE WOULD BE FOR ME TO START A CASE ON MY SCUMBUDDY ZANG, RIGHT? This case is tired and illogical. Give it a rest.

vote GreyICE

I can get behind this lynch. Tyvm "accidental hammer".

[Untrod Tripod]

UT changing his tune that fast is scummy.

UT: I've changed my mind on this a few times, but right now I think GI is probably town
GI: LOL ACCIDENTAL HAMMER ON SCUM
UT: ...
GI: PRETTY SURE AGM IS THE SK
UT: ...
GI: RAAAAAAAAARGHHHHHHHH
UT: Ok maybe I was wrong

Not exactly "that fast".

[Untrod Tripod]

Hmm, I know I'm supposed to think that the scum is UT. But something I read in another game keeps hitting me in the back of the skull... every single LyLo there's an obvious mislynch that has been carefully nursed along for this one special occasion. And that obvious mislynch has somehow always been on everyone who is still alive's scumlist, but just never made it to #1.

Unfortunately I can't tell whether that special mislynch is UT or StrangerCoug. Could even be both

If GI flips scum, this quote tells me that SC is his likely buddy. inb4mariytasaysorit'syou

[Untrod Tripod]

@UT: Jesus christ man, I hope you're scum. I have a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach you're town though.

One of us nailed Zang as scum on page 13. I have a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that it wasn't you and you didn't get on the Zang train until your lolaccidentalhammer 38 pages later.

[Untrod Tripod]

ME: I'm vigging SC tonight
POSION/NIGHT HITS
ZANG: *asks me what my master plan was. I don't respond*
ME: I was poisoned, fuck it. Who did you roleblock?
ZANG: Mariyta.

@AGM
1. Did you get some kind of mod note saying you were poisoned?
2. Would it not be reasonable to assume that Zang RB'd you last night if you didn't get poisoned?

[Untrod Tripod]

unvote GI

Need to revisit this when I have time. Unvoting for now

[Untrod Tripod]

Dammit.

unvote GreyICE

For the record the first unvote was acceptable. You clearly identified a player in the game who you were currently voting for.

[Untrod Tripod]

I thought about it after I voted, and I realized that GI doesn't makes sense as Zang's scumpartner. That's why I unvoted. Changing your mind and wanting to prevent a mislynch is scummy, I forgot.

Hi UT. Good job unvoting your scumbuddy.

K, UT's post was all I needed. GI and UT are our targets.

And what reasoning do you have for me and GI being scum together? Also, by the way, if you think GI and I are scum together, why not vote for GI? His wagon is the one that has a better chance of going through, so why not actually go with that one? Like with your move from Zang to LMP (which, by the way, upon reread looks SUPER DUPER SCUMMY), are you just trying to get onto a somewhat decent-looking wagon that probably won't go through so as to look proactive without actually doing anything?

Here's a thought: I realize it's trendy and all to try to "find the rest of the scumteam", but how about instead of trying to pair me off with a player of unknown alignment, you try to peg me as Zang's scumpartner (being as how we know his alignment and whatnot)? Oh wait. It would make no sense for me to be Zang's partner.

Uh...uncertain tripod? What? I'm kinda insulted GI.

Do you have a posting restriction that requires to insult the other players in this game? For the record he's been calling me that for a while now.

[Untrod Tripod]

Long story short, you're trying to have it both ways without explanation.

Speaking of no explanations... How? What am I trying to have both ways?

That seems rather manufactured now that you got called on it. Care to elaborate why GI doesn't work as Zang's buddy? Zang the pretty much imminently bussable?

Care to elaborate on why I work as Zang's scumbuddy?

[Untrod Tripod]

You're go Mr. Oh Shit I Don't Have An Answer Quick Evade The Question

So your argument is that on day one I started a counterwagon to my own ON MY SCUMBUDDY?

[Untrod Tripod]

You still haven't answered my question. Why are you evading my question? Don't have an answer Scumpants McGee?

Well, to be completely honest, the real reason I did it without anything to go with it was because I posted it from my phone in the middle of work. I just wanted to get the vote off before he got quicklynched. I went back and re-read all of GI's long involved questioning of Zang. Upon reinspection, seems a lot more pro-town to me than it looks like scum bussing. Maybe I'm overanalyzing this, but it seemed to me that I should reconsider the vote and do more VC analysis with him before I put the vote back on. It's really easy to read GI as scum because he posts so much nonsense, so I wanted to make super duper sure that I thought he was scum. My read on him flips back and forth too often for me to not be more careful about it.

Well, what else would have stuck?

And that's quite a lot of town cred if you had gotten it to lynch. Enough to be worth someone as useless as Zang.

So obviously every time a townsperson starts a case on a scum, it's OBVSCUM BUSSING, right?

[Untrod Tripod]

Admittedly, dislike the misrep here. When the scum is THAT ridiculously bad, bussing becomes a LOT more likely.

If he was so bad, why did you jump off of his wagon and stay on LMP all day?

[Untrod Tripod]

EBWOP: Oh, right, I also forgot that with LMP's slot being replaced, and my certainty in my read on him, I was pushing him over Zang for convenience. OK.

O rly?

Zang wouldn't be a bad lynch, I guess. It's just at this point, why replace a slot that's going to get lynched eventually.

But, I'll go with Zang if necessary.

@Mina: The thing is, we're NOT punishing a quitter. LOOK AT RECK AND LMPs ISOs! THEY ARE PRETTY FUCKING SCUMMY! We'd be lynching someone who is, by all rights, scummy. NOT lynching someone just because they quit. Please don't misrep me.

That's sure not what that post says to me. You seemed a lot more sure about your read on LMP than your read on Zang.

[Untrod Tripod]

@AGM: Difference is motive. UT oscillated. I've been fairly consistent in my suspicion but wasn't on the wagon.

Because uncertainty=scummy. Obviously. What scum motivation is there for making a huge deal about jumping off of a buddy as he is about to be lynched?

@UT: Um, that's hilarious because that's exactly what that post says.

If I misread that post, I apologize, but it seems like saying "I guess I could go for a Zang lynch" and then "LMP IS PRETTY DARN SCUMMY" indicates a stronger scum read on LMP than Zang.

And I really don't understand holding up the ZANG VOTE HOO like it's some piece of masterful town only craft. Good lord.

I'm not saying "I voted for the scum", therefore I am town. I am saying it makes very little sense for me to introduce a counterwagon to my own on my scum buddy on day 1 on the off chance that it might earn me some town cred.

[Untrod Tripod]

I am going to go ahead and post everything SC had to say about Zang, for reference (and posterity)
___________________________________________________________________________

The first quote encompasses SC's first two posts about/to Zang

-AKnottedRope, again, what do you think about havingfitz? And although Zang pestering everyone to give reasons for voting him is annoying, can you explain more of why Zang shot to the top of your suspect list?

So I'm supposed to let people vote for me for no reason at all?

Why are you jumping in here? Annoying ≠ scummy, and the question was directed at AKnottedRope.

I was not jumping in, I did not answer or comment on the question directed at AKR. Why are you jumping in here? My question was directed at Mina.

This is a straight-up lie. Mina claimed, in the question to AKnottedRope, that you bugging the people on your wagon for vote reasons is annoying and you chime in by asking if people are supposed to just pile on you for the hell of it. Therefore, you jumped in.

UNVOTE: AlmasterGM
VOTE: Zang

Let's trim down the pyramid a bit...

This is a straight-up lie. Mina claimed, in the question to AKnottedRope, that you bugging the people on your wagon for vote reasons is annoying and you chime in by asking if people are supposed to just pile on you for the hell of it. Therefore, you jumped in.

UNVOTE: AlmasterGM
VOTE: Zang

How is that scummy?

He said something about me that I didn't agree with so I asked him to explain.

As I said, annoying ≠ scummy. The way you asked Mina the question is paranoid.

I was asking Mina. Once again, why is that scummy?

Oh, why is you asking Mina a question scummy? There wasn't a need to intrude on her line of questioning. Yes, she posted an opinion of you, but I interpret it as relatively null.

So, why are you voting me?

Your reaction is unnatural, Zang. A milder response such as "I don't like how you dismiss my trying to figure out what the case on me is as annoying" might have gone over with me well, but basically asking "What the hell am I supposed to do, sit there?" comes off as panicky scum to me.

*laughs at the wagon building on me*

I still like Zang as the lynch. He's more worried about himself than finding scum. AlmasterGM (sorry) and CooLDoG are lynches I support also.

*laughs at the wagon building on me*

I still like Zang as the lynch. He's more worried about himself than finding scum. AlmasterGM (sorry) and CooLDoG are lynches I support also.

I'm not more worried about myself than finding scum. I found Mariyta and I probably found another one. Also, why are you voting for me? As I said before, your reason is weak.

For the ten millionth time, I don't like how you reacted to Mina's comment about the wagon on you. Annoying ≠ scummy, and there was no reason to react by asking if the correct thing to do was to ignore all the votes on you. I've pulled that "am I supposed to sit there and let the votes pile on me?" stunt as scum myself,

IN A GAME YOU MODDED.

Granted, I answered my own question, but still...

As for the CooLDoG wagon, I'm going to jump on. I commented earlier that I didn't like the meta case on xRECKONERx by either him or AlmasterGM. I'm still pretty confident that there is a scum neighbor, but hey—I might get info by leaving them alive.

UNVOTE: Zang
VOTE: CooLDoG

Oh, and...

Given a choice between StrangerCoug and CooLDoG, I'd choose the former, because I dislike the way he tried to spin Zang's question as "lying".

Where did I do this? I believe the case I spun off it is that he is overreacting, not lying.

But is there anyone other than Mariyta who'd be up for a lynch that isn't CooLDoG or StrangerCoug?

Zang can die in my opinion.

So yes, the bulk of your accusation was that he was jumping in. But you calling him a liar felt like a misrep. Zang did not lie about the fact that he didn't answer my question to AKR. Also, in Zang's defence, the implication was there that I disliked his pestering people for votes (and therefore found it slightly scummy).

And although I also disliked his jumping in, the fact that you conveniently found Zang scummy for something small that occurred after his wagon took up steam also rubbed me the wrong way.

The lie was that he didn't jump in when, in fact, he did, and your post aligns with this thinking. It's true that Zang didn't answer your question for AKnottedRope and asked you a question himself, but that's it.

A dead Zang would make me happy, but whatever floats your boat...

Untrod Tripod and Zang are my other suspects, but I need to read UT a bit closer. I'll continue my Day 1 push on Zang in the meantime.

VOTE: Zang

Wait—you think Zang could be scum, yet I'm scummy for voting him? Unless you think I'm bussing him, this makes no sense. FoS.

Maybe that's because your reasons for voting me are terrible.

Well, I'm not the only person that needs to learn how to read, now am I?

Reread #1020. Mariyta considers you a suspect as well. She also clarified that she never discussed my vote on you.

unvote, vote:zang

Zang is today's lynch. Lurking, not generating any content by himself. Only being reactive. Nos cum hunting. And one helluva lurker. I dub thee scum. Get lynched or get out.

I am lurking. How is this different than any other games I've played or earlier in this game? I don't see how I'm not generating any content. It's not like I'm wasting a whole post just to say my favorite flavor of ramen.

I can't tell if this is supposed to be a concession or a sarcastic response.

________________________________________________

When you take SC's posts in context of the game, he doesn't really jump out to you, but taken in ISO, and especially when you compile everything he had to say about Zang, it's pretty damning. SC only posted token arguments against Zang and then backed into the case and sat there like he'd always been for it. Also SC's votes on CD, UK (not pictured here) are TERRIBAD. Also his "UT and Zang are suspicious, but I'll vote for Zang for now" post smacks of bussing. I was a popular wagon at the time (oh wait, when was I not) and he voiced token support for it (for the first time in the game, might I add) for no reason, but votes Zang and never revists me. Also in his last post before his replacement request he said

HoS: LynchMePls

Wake up and smell the OMGUS, folks.

I'm liking AlmasterGM better.

Whaaaaaaaaaat? AGM and Zang were EXCEPTIONALLY unlikely to be buddies, so going for AGM and Zang as scumbuddies (remember, he was still voting Zang at the time) AND LEAVING HIS VOTE ON ZANG is awful. Also, his replacing out when he did (when Zang was almost definitely the day's lynch) allowed his vote to stay on Zang while his slot didn't have to do anything other than help the lynch. That feels bad to me.


tl;dr
I find SC/Spyrex likely to be Zang's buddy, but I'm not dropping my vote yet, I will explain why in the next post

[Untrod Tripod]

Here is a list of what I know.

2. Untrod Tripod - town
4. AlmasterGM - vig/sk and protection
7. Spyrex/StrangerCoug - likely scum
8. GreyICE AKnottedRope - claimed governor, but who the fuck knows?

Zang - scum
LMP, Kats, fitz, CD - town

For remaining reads, I have
3. Mariyta - probably town, I can't see scum publicly admitting to watching the movie and then telling everyone the relevant plot details. Scum would have hidden that info for personal benefit and only used it when it was useful for claiming/refuting claims.
10. UncertainKitten - leaning town
11. Mina - leaning scum
13. GhostWriter - WHAT THE FUCK WHERE IS HE

We probably have two more scum and either a vig or an SK.

5:2:1 if SK
6:2 if vig

If we mislynch today (it's possible), we'll be down to 4:2:1 or 5:2

Let's say hypothetically that AGM is telling the truth about his abilities. He has a doc protect tonight, but is likely to miss, so that brings us down to

4:2:1 or 5:2

the next day.

I guess my ultimate point is that if AGM is 3rd party we are s-s-s-screwed if we don't lynch scum today. We need to be careful.

______________________________________

I can deal with those odds, and based on SC/Spyrex's game, I think there's something like an 80% chance the slot is scum.

However

I don't want to lynch until we get full contributions from EVERYONE on the playerlist. Ghostwriter either needs to be replaced or get the fuck in here and make an EXHAUSTIVE post about who he wants to lynch.

HERE'S MY PLAN:
Everyone, in their next post, needs to pick ONE lynch candidate. No trying to name scumteams and no bullshit theory discussion. The game is too close to a town lose for us to do that. If you had to drop a vote right now, where would it go? I don't care if you've "said it before", I want everyone to say, on record at this moment, who their top scum candidate is. Once everyone says who they're willing to lynch, if we can come to a consensus who it is (remember, we very likely have two scum, and it's possibru that AGM is 3rd party who would only stand to gain from lynching town). We have options for discussion. Remember, we have four town flips and one scum flip.

The reason I do NOT want to do "what are all of your reads right now?" is because it is ENTIRELY too easy for scum to name two or three players they think are "scummy", listing one of their buds and two town players. I don't want scum to be able to say "oh yeah, I suspected him the whole time..." or be able to drop a bussing vote and pursue town players.

As I said and showed in my previous post, Spyrex/SC is my lynch candidate for today.

EDIT

I'm starting to like UT better. He's actually participating now and is making some damn good cases.

*tips hat* 'preciate it.

[Untrod Tripod]

I realize I posted all of my reads and then said that I don't want everyone else to do it. Deal with it. Those reads weren't exactly a secret. I wanted to say the thing about Mariyta and figured I had been ambivalent enough about GW and UK that I should say what I thought.

ok, that's all.

[Untrod Tripod]

And, sorry, forgot to put this part in:

I want to pick one scum candidate for today because scum reads NEED to be based on connection to Zang, VC analysis and general behavior. Trying to pin players of unknown alignment together when we have a scum flip on a player that everyone weighed in on is bad news bears. The strongest lynch candidate for everyone should be chosen on the above basis and therefore we should each have one candidate who we feel the strongest about. If we manage to lynch scum today, we will proceed on the basis of how the living players acted towards/in relation to that flip and Zang. Also tomorrow if AGM still lives we can discuss who he is going to kill, so we have that to look forward to.

Ok, this is Untrod Tripod, over and out.

[Untrod Tripod]

That wasn't as "straightforward" an explanation as you might imagine. At least you finally explained something. Your slot is still scummy as hell, and the explanation does nothing to help that.

At least there's some good news: Mina is probably town.

Why?
Also, is GI still your top scumpick?

[Untrod Tripod]

At least there's some good news: Mina is probably town.

For this:
(For the record, if there hadn't been no kill on N1, I would totally be spinning paranoid theories about AGM being a Mafioso with a one-shot vig kill.)


I thought the same thing - but I thought it was CD, not AGM.

If that's all you have, that's the weakest townread ever.

Also your explanation looks like trying to obfuscate more than explain. I was trying to be polite because it just kind of looks like your posting style.

the other SHOULD READILY BE APPARENT from where the vote is.

If you had read my last couple of posts, you would know why I asked you that. Chill the fuck out.

[Untrod Tripod]

So you want the town to eat a NK? And you think this is a good idea? You realize that governor doesn't prove your alignment, right?

[Untrod Tripod]

Governors almost always cannot prevent their own lynch.

I'll give you that a bulletproof scum governor is really unlikely. If he's scum, though, he's probs not bulletproof.

[Untrod Tripod]

If GI gets lynched and flips

scum

, you can lynch me tomorrow. No fightin or tomfoolery.

...derp? Am I the only one who noticed this?

[Untrod Tripod]

UK posted my post before I posted it

[Untrod Tripod]

Zang was scummy as hell the whole time. This cannot be ignored.

SpyreX's slot looks REALLY scummy in his interactions to/about the confirmed scum slot. This should not be forgotten.

[Untrod Tripod]

I don't play mafia to be treated like a moron and insulted at every turn

Because that's not how the game is right now
Sigh. just as we were starting to get along...

[Untrod Tripod]

Don't get her started reading with a bad attitude

[Untrod Tripod]

but then you post terrible things

@LLD: you do realize that reading up to page 10 on day 1 and placing a vote based on it in a 52 page game on it's third day is terrible, right?

[Untrod Tripod]

So uh, I can just treat the first 60 pages of this thread as "YOURE READS ARE HORRIBEL DIEDIDEIDIE" on all the subpar players and NOT do a catchup post?
>_>

<_<

If you do that, the terrorists win

[Untrod Tripod]

OH MY GOD FATE JUST READ THE THREAD

[Untrod Tripod]

I fail to see how that sort of logical leap is unusual for GI.

I'll admit it's scummy, but please, it's not like he hasn't said anything that outrageous before.

[Untrod Tripod]

quick, LLD unvote before GI gets quickhammered

[Untrod Tripod]

do you not remember GI thinking I was rolefishing when I had asked for the exact opposite? the dude has been coming to extremely outrageous conclusions all game. We need to find the player with the strongest scum connection to our scumflip, not our most illogical player.

I will admit that GI has been acting legit scummy, but his craziness makes it really hard for me to pin it on him being scum AND crazy rather than just crazy

[Untrod Tripod]

I still think SpyreX is the lynch today. We should evaluate GI and Mina based on SpyreX's flip

Fayte has swayed me back onto the "GI is scum" side of the line, but I'm a lot more confident in my read on SpyreX

[Untrod Tripod]

You're only there? hoo boy are you in for a dozen or so really amazing pages

[Untrod Tripod]

good times...

[Untrod Tripod]

Who was calling Mina/Spy team before this? NOBODY.

Preeeeeeeeeetty sure I called it on day 1. But your point is valid, Mina was being very paranoid for a town player

[Untrod Tripod]

I feel uneasy about this.

UK claimed hammer, but I kind of want to do it to make up for my Katsuki hammer.

I just have this uneasy feeling that GI is stupid town and not stupid scum.

[Untrod Tripod]

GI, before the hammer, give us your full town reads and scum reads. for posterity. If you're actually town you should do this to help us out.

[Untrod Tripod]

well

that just happened

[Untrod Tripod]

But then he was horrible again.

Citation needed.

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm gonna be frank here, I'm kind of with getting lynched today. I don't think it puts the town in a bad position and it would make genuinely scummy players look bad. I know it's not playing to my wincon blah blah blah but honestly I think the most protown thing for me to do would be get lynched.

[Untrod Tripod]

Answer me this:

If I am scum, why OH GOD WHY would I kill one of my expressed scum reads?

[Untrod Tripod]

What would the argument be? Obviously I'm town because one of my scum reads was town?

Right.

[Untrod Tripod]

Scum is UT. GG.

Pretend I'm town. What does that mean?

Because I'm going to flip town if you lynch me. What do you do in that situation?

[Untrod Tripod]

And you'll all follow him because you're goddamned brain dead.

Exactly one person is following him. I'm not believing his claim until I get some more info.

[Untrod Tripod]

Jesus christ I go off for an hour and this? Protip: don't shoot spyrex.

[Untrod Tripod]

vote LLD

I'm banking on AGM being vig and not SK here.

[Untrod Tripod]

There's no way that AGM is mafia with two kills, right? Right?

Goddammit MoI if AGM is mafia with two kill I will never forgive you for this.

[Untrod Tripod]

AGM, to be totally fair, if you're town I think your decision is really rough. Mariyta played a great low-impact game and pinning her as scum will be really tough. She was not the obvious vig kill last night at all. Honestly I'm really shocked that she's (from my position) the scum. Oh well. If you're town let's try to win this.

I'm super busy this weekend (parents visiting and lots of work), but I'll do what I can to get some stuff up within a couple days to make your decision easier.

[Untrod Tripod]

I don't know your alignment. But you have a point. I guess since it's obvious you've seen my vote and not done anything you must be a vig. Ok. Cool. Glad to know town still has a chance.

[Untrod Tripod]

It occurs to me that if you were an SK, you would rather lynch town than scum, so you would wait for the vote on me. This is why I don't know your alignment for positive.

[Untrod Tripod]

EBWOP: scum than town.

So what I'm saying is if you had me as a read as scum, you would wait until LLD voted for me. You would be wrong, but that's what SK-AGM would do.

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm 98% sure you're a vig, not sk. I never said you were bulletproof though, not sure where you got that from. I can just see why sk-agm might wait for LLD to vote for me. Thus my uncertainty about your alignment. For the record though, LLD's uk hammer was scummy as hell. UK was obvious fucking town. Though your choice is kind of tough, that hammer should make it a lot easier, especially considering all of the town flips on that wagon.

[Untrod Tripod]

Yes, not participating in a bullshit wagon on an obvtown player is scummier than dropping the fucking hammer. Please.

[Untrod Tripod]

Also I love the classic scum argument of "this thing you didn't do is scummy". It's not a case. Point out some things that either tie me to a flipped scum or show a scum agenda. You know, like hammering an obvtown player after your predecessor did hardly any scumhunting at all while tunneling me the whole game.

Whatever though. I want AGM to decide.

Edit: I'm not commenting on that because it happened super fast and I had RL shit going on. Call it a scumtell if you must sink to that level (lol activity tells), but it pales in comparison to you dropping the hammer on a bullshit wagon of a town player.

[Untrod Tripod]

This went WAAAAAAAAAAAY down my bookmarks.

Don't stall on me when we have ONE MORE FUCKING VOTE TO VICTORY.

Can you give a point by point case on UK for me?

It's kind of a stretch for me buying UK!Scum, so if you want my vote on this, you'll need to explain your reasoning to me.

So... I guess we will find out who is going to change their Avvy. <3

Unvote; Vote: UK

I'm too blinded when it comes to reading UK anyway, so while I doubt she is scum, I could be deluded.

I think town has this one wrapped up anyway.

That's what you had to say about UK yesterday. "I don't think she's scum. I don't think she's scum. HIZZAMMER. I doubt she's scum but I hammered her anyway. Town probably has this won anyway."

You hammered a town read and then said you still thought she was town.

BTW, if you're going to get upset about AtE, you really should have started barking up that tree...oh...73 pages ago. Please. You didn't use AtE as a scumtell against Fate, AGM or UK and they're *far* more guilty of it than I am.

[Untrod Tripod]

@Bolded: "Why me? Other people did this too? Why are you using it against me?" So scummy.

I'm not saying "why me", I'm saying it's hypocritical on your part. I don't think AtE is a scumtell in the first place, and if you read through the game you could come to the same conclusion. I am saying you are making a cherrypicking argument by saying that because your expressed towntell (UK) did a whole lot of it and you thought she was town. You said that both before and after you hammered her.

As for why I hammered UK, I can't read her properly. I had a town read on her, but Fate made some compelling arguments, and I wavered in my read. I gave Fate the benefit of the doubt, knowing that I'd still have this opportunity to kill you TODAY.

You hammered your town read knowing that there was a good chance it would lead to lylo the next day because Fate made some "compelling" arguments? Is that seriously your defense? Town players don't just "go with the flow" in that situation. You made an opportunistic hammer on the one player that pretty much everyone had a town read on because you knew that you would have no hope of defending yourself against her in a LyLo situation. That's not town play, that's scum play.

And I do. Town has this won, as long as people listen to me finally and LYNCH YOU. Been asking for this for a while now, since I replaced IN to this game.

I lol'd.

[Untrod Tripod]

Go check the timestamps, that entire wagon happened in about 14 hours, with most of those coming while I was doing IRL things. Like sleeping and homework. You cannot use activity as a tell when a lynch happens that quickly.

During the wagon you said "Hey, could someone explain to me what's scummy about UK?"
"I think UK is town"
"HIZZAMMER" and
"I hammered UK, but I think she was town"

Yeah, that's a lot better than me thinking "Hmm, this whole UK business is ridiculous, I am going to sleep on it. There's no way someone would hammer UK while I'm asleep....oh."
I didn't think UK was scum, so I didn't participate in the wagon, hoping that Fate would calm down and realize that UK wasn't scum. Hell, I even said at the beginning of the day that I thought I was a decent choice for the lynch because it would provide the town with valuable info. Frankly, I think I'm only alive today because you thought I'd be an easier mislynch than SpyreX, UK or Fate, would probably would have been a flawless plan if not for you hammering UK. Besides, I would be a logical choice to continue attacking today, considering that your slot has been all up in my grill since day 1. Your hammer smacks of scum jumping on a lynch opportunistically to get a strongly pro town player mislynched in the confusion of Fate thumping his chest and yelling. The worst part is that you don't even have your own arguments to back up. You jumped on the wagon using someone else's reasoning and hoped for the best. Piggybacking someone else's arguments onto a wagon is bad enough. When you're hammering it's pretty scummy. When that slot flips town, it's even worse.

Here's the fact of the matter: you're scummy because of something you did. Your argument against me here is based on something I didn't do. And

you're claiming that the thing I did that was scummy was not being on a mislynch of a player I have vocally had a town read on all game

.

Let's look at this from a VC analysis POV as well.

Here are our lynches:

Katsuki (LYNCHED)

-

Mina, StrangerCoug, AlmasterGM

,

GreyICE

,

CooLDoG,

Zang

, Untrod Tripod

Zang (LYNCHED)

-

StrangerCoug, CooLDoG, LynchMePls

, Untrod Tripod, Mariyta/LLD,

GreyICE

GreyICE (LYNCHED)

-

AlmasterGM, Spyrex, Fate

, Lady Lambdadelta,

GreyICE

UncertainKitten (LYNCHED)

-

AlmasterGM, Fate, Spyrex

, Lady Lambdadelta

Are you really expecting us to believe that there were scum players on every single lynch except UK's? Especially considering how fast UK's lynch happened? Especially considering that you and I both were vocal about UK being a town read?

I guess the question for AGM as far as that goes is this:
What is a more likely scum action:
A player not participating in the lynch of a slot that player has said all game is town
or
A player hammering a slot they call town before, during and after the hammer with no real reasoning other than "well someone made some compelling arguments", which then leads to LyLo.

[Untrod Tripod]

Look at this. In your votes, you have hammered a townie, and bussed Zang.

Zang was obv scum. Would have been to obvious had you NOT voted on that wagon.

But you skillfully avoided the GreyICE wagon.

I started the case on Zang on day 1. While I was the popular wagon. Before Zang was "obvscum". What you're claiming is that I (since the GF and RB have flipped, it's a pretty good assumption that the remaining scum is a goon) preemptively bussed the mafia roleblocker to save myself. Right.

And then you lurked the entire day yesterday, so there was no way you could vote without being scrutinized.

I'm just going to say this one more time, the UK wagon happened in about 12 hours, and the day lasted roughly 13. You cannot make an activity case here. It's complete bullshit.

Your hammer on Katsuki is bad.

The only pro-town thing Kats did was not flip scum. Kats was scummy as hell.

Your vote on Zang was a required bus.

I started that case.

Your lack of vote on GreyICE was scummy.

Ehhhhhhhhhh no. My play regarding GI (which I was very clear about) was more that I was confused as hell about his apparent bipolar disorder.

Your lack of INPUT on the UK wagon is scummy.

Ohhhhhhhhhh but UK had been one of my expressed town reads all game long. Are you arguing that because I didn't say "I still think UK isn't scummy!" and did not get on the wagon then I was therefore fine with the wagon?


_____________________________

In the end, this is really for AGM to decide. Obviously I'm not going to convince you to stop pushing for my lynch and you're not going to trick me into thinking you're town. You already know your alignment and I already know mine. This argument is ultimately fruitless and will just drag on forever until AGM picks one of us. However, by all means keep talking. The more you post, the more you're going to reveal your anti-town motivations. To my mind, even without the UK hammer, the fact that your go-to argument against me is about things I did not do rather than things I did do is pretty telling.

[Untrod Tripod]

Looks like you're going to help LLD's record then.

AGM, why wouldn't a town player be at least a little worried about your alignment? You led the charge on UK yesterday partially because of this silly "EVERYONE WHO THINKS I MIGHT POSSIBLY MAYBE BE SK IS TEH SCUMZ" thing you have going on. Yeah, that UK wagon turned out well didn't it? She was the most pro-town player in this game. Maybe this whole "thinking you're the SK" thing is actually not actually a scumtell.

Here's my question: are you seriously basing your decision on who wins this game on the argument that I said "if you're town"? And you really think that's more scummy than LLD's UK hammer? You just got writing a long paragraph saying "man, UT's game makes no sense as scum and Mariyta's game makes perfect sense as scum". Does that not clue you in on anything? You're hearing hoofbeats and thinking zebras. They're horses dude. Scummy, scummy horses.

If you really think that me saying "if you're town" is scummier than LLD's overall play and her hammer on UK, then G effing G scum.

Go ahead and hammer me. All you lose is the game.

[Untrod Tripod]

First off, he hammers Katsuki BEFORE KAT CAN CLAIM THAT SHE GOT HER ACTION OFF This seems like a scum quick hammer.

We talked about this on Day 3 or 4, either way this isn't the first time. I didn't think Kats was town, why would I want her to get a hypothetical action off?

Secondly, his vote on Zang. I don't believe he STARTED the push. Rather, he saw a lot of people lining up Zang, and jumped in on it before it became too suspicious. This is the "easy town cred" you are looking for.

I started the case on Zang on day 1. No one was voting for him at the time and no one had yet. We've gone over this in days previous, too.

The next few days, UT decides his best move is not to be outward aggressive, but rather passive and lurk. On the GreyICE wagon, he posts a few comments, but doesn't help or hinder the GreyICE case. When Fate appears, UT all but DISSAPEARS, except to defend himself from me.

Except for that whole pushing cases on SpyreX and Mina, but whatever you want to tell yourself.

I will note NOW that I have seen the scum!UT for 3 days now, and no one listened to me :3

Your slot has been tunneling me since the beginning of day 1. Subtle distinction there.

I digress, he lets the ICE wagon go without voting on it. Voting on it would give him some town cred, BUT it would also draw attention to him. His strategy at this point was to remain silent.

I wasn't silent on that point. I was actually pretty vocal about the fact that I couldn't decide if GI was scum or not because he was acting like such a raving lunatic.

And what does UT do? Nothing. He doesn't even post. Everyone forgets about him in favor of UK.

You are trying to make an activity case based on the fact that I went about 13 hours without posting.

You could claim that my hammer was the scummier move that day, but truly, UT's lack of a vote was worse.

Yes, hammering a 12-hour wagon on one of your town reads leading to LyLo is more town than not being on that wagon.

____________________________________________________________

You have gone from just posting illogical cases to actually attempting revisionist history. Your true colors are showing, LLD

[Untrod Tripod]

In the order they were received:

tl;dr version: I'm not going to argue with you because I don't have a real answer to your points. I'll just keep my mouth shut and hope AGM picks me! It works last round when Fate ignored me, why not now?

I find it interesting that you come out of the woodwork in this FINAL DAY, with TONS of info and attacks PREPARED.

How about instead of defending yourself against my posts

Pick one:
I'm ignoring your points
I'm attacking you
I'm only defending myself

You've said I'm doing all three.

how about you go find actual scum moves I or Mari have made this game, hmm?

Frankly, I don't really need to go to the trouble (again). Beyond the fact that (by your own admission, I might add) I HAVE done this, if you read AGM's last post, he already realizes that your body of work is scummy. Are you asking me to convince YOU of that? You already know you're scum.

My case: your hammer was scum-fucking-tastic. You said UK was a strong town read. You hammered her. Before the flip you said you had UK as a strong town read. No town player who isn't totally brain-dead hammers a scum read leading to a LyLo situation. In defense of your hammer, you're blaming Fate for being wrong because "oh, Fate has such a good scumdar I just went against my own read". YOU'RE BLAMING FATE FOR YOUR HAMMER. You're basically arguing that you're easily-mislead and bad at mafia. You may as well have used this guy:


Remember what I said about how keeping this argument going will only hurt your case? Keep contradicting yourself.

Hell, I'm not even accusing you of completely ignoring my point about your bulllllllllllshit "activity" case on me. You are. But I hadn't mentioned it yet. I'm saying it again: how can you possibly make a lurking case when the window in which I didn't post was about 12 hours long? This isn't a marathon game. Four days without posting, yes that could be lurking. Twelve hours? No effing way.

[Untrod Tripod]

I guess the question for AGM as far as that goes is this:
What is a more likely scum action:
A player not participating in the lynch of a slot that player has said all game is town
or
A player hammering a slot they call town before, during and after the hammer with no real reasoning other than "well someone made some compelling arguments", which then leads to LyLo.

Because there is just zero reason for town-UT to push the SK issue.

Yeah, that UK wagon turned out well didn't it? She was the most pro-town player in this game. Maybe this whole "thinking you're the SK" thing is actually not actually a scumtell.

Oh I guess you were wrong about the SK thing. Twice.

In the interest of not being a dick I'm just going to not say anything else about this game. Mariyta and LLD played a hell of a game. And that's all there is to say on the matter.

[Untrod Tripod]

which shot doubt into my whole idea that UT's scumminess was just him being dumbtown

Glass houses, dude.

[Untrod Tripod]

@UT: I know my play wasn't stellar and I made mistakes, but I don't think you can sit here and tell me your play was perfect either. LL's, on the other hand, was pretty beautiful.

Your play was good. Do you know what "glass houses" means? I'm saying that you shouldn't be calling me stupid, not that I'm perfect. I played pretty poorly for most of the game, imo.

Mariyta played an amazing scum game. LLD showed her true colors in the end game, but it was a lot harder to see from a 3rd perspective than from mine.

For the comments about me playing well, I think I played a pretty poor game because I failed to convince anyone of anything other than that Zang was a worthy lynch (and the first one was Mariyta, and her liking it was what got the wagon rolling, I think). I played pretty rationally at the end, yeah, but AGM didn't pick my case so as far as mafia goes, I failed in the endgame.

@UK, to answer your comment in the QT, yeah it was in reference to the Chewbacca defense.

[Untrod Tripod]

For those of you who wanted to replay this game with the ending playerlist...

I'm starting signups for a large normal soon...

hint hint...

[Untrod Tripod]

For the record it'll have 14 players.

/advertisement

[Untrod Tripod]

Lessee, mistakes we made:
UT - days 1 and 2, in general

You know, I *did* nail Zang as scum on day 1...