ATHF Mafia OVER(roles and whatnot revealed)

[implosion]

Hi. I'm here.

I would like to know from everyone how many games he/she has already played already.

On this site: won one, dead in one, alive in one other. Off-site, some more but not a lot in the same format as mafiascum.

Then again, I'm used to always being accused of scum early in Day 1, as some of you can attest to, so maybe I was just paranoid.

Excuses excuses excuses.
VOTE: Seacore

Glad this game didn't linger in RVS.

You seem awfully quick to join the bandwagon. Why?

[implosion]

@implosion:

If I just told you, what would

your

job be in all this?

My job in what now? If you just told me what? What?

My game count is probably at the one dozen mark, but I haven't kept track of games pre-forum upgrade, so I don't know for sure.

@ implosion,

I'm disagreeing with the reason people are finding podium scummy. How is that an excuse?

You saying that you're always accused of being scum early day one (the part of your post that had nothing to do with podium). It basically amounts to saying "hey guys, people always find me scummy so even if I'm scummy you shouldn't accuse me for it."

[implosion]

@ implosion, no, that is a misread of my post. Go back and read it in context.

Fate voted for podium reacting to a joke/rvs vote.
Podium responds saying he didn't understand it was a joke and that he's not used to Fate's style.
I agreed with podium saying I also didn't read it as a joke, but that maybe that's just because I'm always paranoid Day 1. In short, I don't find podium scummy because he reacted the same way I did.

In your original post you said that people always accuse you of being scum early in day one. It's that part of the post that I'm interested in. I get that you threw that in to explain why you're generally paranoid day one (I think) but it still seems out of place to me, even in context.

[implosion]

Sorry. I had a midterm to study for. I should be

very

active for the next oh... 6 weeks. Reading through now.

[implosion]

Done reading. Blah. Long story short: MoI is right, podium has blatantly done no scumhunting at all (until earlier this page, and that's kind of shitty anyway). He just complains. And complains. And complains. His reaction to Fate is somewhat scummy IMO (though it's possible that it isn't) but the rest of what he's doing just isn't town. It just isn't.

Unvote, Vote: podium

That's L-2 btw.

Preemptive vote for tomorrow if podium flips scum: Seacore

These two have a strange dynamic between them. Podium's jump to Seacore in ISO 35 is odd IMO, especially after he defended Seacore when he was attacking me. The jump seems ill-thought out, erratic and unexpected. I see it as podium likely realizing that he's doomed, and deciding to vote a scumbuddy to give Seacore towncred. Speaking of which, podium's defense of Seacore in the first place is a little odd. So much in the thread to comment on, so much to scumhunt from, and you think that what you saw as a minor misrepresentation is the scummiest thing there? I also find it odd in podium's ISO 30 when he says "furthermore, why dont you let seacore handle his own discussions" after he's been arguing for Seacore in this debate long after it was lost in the thread.

And just to clarify what I was talking about earlier with regards to Seacore (way back on page 2): I was referring

exclusively

to the part of his post that had mentioned him always being called out as scum on day one. The rest of the post, although supposedly his reason for saying that, is unimportant IMO.

but 176 really

was

a superb post. nobody knows my alignment but me... but you summed up the thread almost

verbatim

as to how i would have (maybe even a little better). since i know that i am town, (cue fate/nacho entering with some ridiculous comment about me speaking like this) i obviously find it very towny of you.

If he summed up the thread exactly as you would have, then why the hell did you never mention a thing about Ghost or Nacho? And why does him summing up the thread as you would have make

him

town, anyway? He did something you would have done. Cool. He called you town. Cool. And this makes him town to you because...?

I'm a little suspicious of VV 176 actually. I don't see how podium's early speech could

possibly

be interpreted as obvtown. I could see it as being read as neutral (although I don't read it that way). I could also see a big scum motivation for calling podium town in this situation, regardless of his alignment (try to save a scumbuddy / try to look good if it's a ml). In other words, I don't think a townie would come to the conclusion VV did although I could definitely see a scum trying to fabricate this case. It's also interesting how he brings up 2 people who had had little suspicion on them; I think it might be scum trying to keep their options open. If podium flips town, VV is my next scum in line.

As for other people:

Fate I am assuming will be unreadable for now based on what I'm hearing of her meta.
Vibe: probably town. Although he is acting somewhat antitown by being so obscure in what he's saying, he's doing it in a way which makes me think he's town. IDK exactly why.
Ghost: neutral.
Nacho: neutral. Neither of these two did anything to arouse suspicion IMO.
Magna: town. Sensical. Logical. Etc.
Others: not enough info.

[implosion]

Nothing in particular. I'd lean town on both of you simply because town is the majority, and neither of you has done anything suspicious. You've both been fairly protown, and as far as I can tell you're both good players in general. Both of you have been kind of sheeping Fate (which I am too now) which doesn't really give me anything either way. Nacho said he thought sheeping Fate was the best move as town or scum, and he (I think) knows Fate well, which I don't. So neither of you really gives me any strong tells.

[implosion]

Nacho's been tunneling podium all game, and sheeping Fate. But he's also given his own reasons, has been asking questions, etc. He fought for his viewpoint, and provided evidence.

A list of podium posts where he gives reads on someone (note: by read I mean him saying "X is town/scum/null):

Podium's first accusation - or read - at ALL - on ANYONE - was scum on me, and it was because of something I think he misunderstood. That's ISO 15, btw.
ISO 17 - null reads on people that had both been very eccentric, to say the least. Null read ≠ real read.

...

ISO 35 - sudden jump onto Seacore.

...

ISO 57

not looking any farther than that. Fact is, you should have done MUCH more scumhunting in this long period of time.

These two have a strange dynamic between them. Podium's jump to Seacore in ISO 35 is odd IMO, especially after he defended Seacore when he was attacking me. The jump seems ill-thought out, erratic and unexpected.

Ill thought out and erratic? What?? How is what i said 'ill thought out' or erratic? I explained it pretty damn thoroughly.

Seacore's quotes were all very much relevant. The first two (which you said were irrelevant) were both of you asking someone to explain their case on you in a way that didn't imply you thought their case was false. Or to rephrase, both of those quotes implied that you were asking the "how did I get caught so early" question that others had raised. To elaborate on the second quote which you specifically said in ISO 35 was bad: it doesn't have to do with something being a scumtell, but it does have to do with you asking someone how they found something suspicious. The thing is, nowhere do you really say "your case against me is bullshit" to anyone, or any other form of that, at least in the early game. In fact, reading it again, your vote seems kind of OMGUSsy too.

And I like how you call my case (that is substantive) unexpected... but not seacores vote... of which he had just said he was going to wait and think about over the weekend.

Btw, i didn't necessarily 'defend' seacore... hell, i raised the possibility of him being your scum partner. misrep some more.

You defended Seacore's phrasing of it, saying that my interpretation of what he said was wrong. You said "It doesn't amount to that at all. Not even close" which it does, you just misunderstood what I was saying. This is definitely defending Seacore, and you saying that it isn't is odd as well.

So much in the thread to comment on, so much to scumhunt from, and you think that what you saw as a minor misrepresentation is the scummiest thing there?

It was the beginning of page four, and my case had dominated the game... there wasn't that much in the thread, from my point of view, at that time...

What do you mean from your point of view? Everyone has access to the same information in-thread. There were plenty of other people making cases on people other than you (like my case on Seacore, although it was somewhat RVSy).

And just to clarify what I was talking about earlier with regards to Seacore (way back on page 2): I was referring

exclusively

to the part of his post that had mentioned him always being called out as scum on day one. The rest of the post, although supposedly his reason for saying that, is unimportant IMO.

You dont have to keep clarifying... it's pretty clear that i know what you meant.

This makes no sense to me... he said "i did x because of y", and you dont think y is in context or important? it's the REASON that he found x suspicious.

Again - it seems like an odd thing to bring up in the first place, even as reasoning for something else. If you knew what I meant, you wouldn't be saying it was a misrepresentation.

Furthermore, your paraphrase is a complete misrepresentation.

*HEY GW* -- THIS is an actual example of someone trying to make a mountain out of a molehill during RVS... as opposed to your phantom example of me doing it.

Nope. As I said, I'm just talking about the second part of what he said. I am in no way vaguely misrepresenting it.

MoI is right, podium has blatantly done no scumhunting at all

BTW, are you aware that i have done more scumhunting in this thread than you have? MISREP SOME MOAR, SCUM.

Wow. I was honestly hoping you would say this... you realize I was studying for a midterm the past three days and was not here at all, right? Why would you even call me out on this? Besides, lets talk about scumhunting per posts... I've made a (sort of RVS) accusation of seacore, I've listed my top suspects as of now... you've been fake scumhunting this whole time. You haven't committed to any reads that have legitimate reasoning behind them.

[implosion]

THIS COMMENT GETS ITS VERY OWN POST:

So much in the thread to comment on, so much to scumhunt from, and you think that what you saw as a minor misrepresentation is the scummiest thing there?

It was the beginning of page four, and my case had dominated the game... there wasn't that much in the thread, from my point of view, at that time...

What do you mean from your point of view? Everyone has access to the same information in-thread. There were plenty of other people making cases on people other than you (like my case on Seacore, although it was somewhat RVSy).

Implosion criticizes me for making a case about his vote on seacore.

When i tell him there wasn't that much to choose from at that point in the thread, he says 'sure there was, for instance there was my case on seacore'.


facepalmx1000

That was just an example. You were implying that everyone was attacking you, and that was why you weren't doing anything. Also, good job avoiding my question. What do you mean from your point of view?

[implosion]

A thought occurs. What if podium is a jester? I'm not sure but I think he might be going out of his way to be scummy... he just ignored my question for the second time in a row, and I'm pretty fucking sure it was on purpose. Or maybe I'm just paranoid.

[implosion]

So you

are

saying that you were not making your own cases because other people were attacking you?

[implosion]

...seriously dude, just stop. trust me.

[implosion]

Implosion's 252, is drivel. He lists the places where Podium did some scum hunting, but chastises him for not doing more (despite the fact that others have done less, as Podium points out later)

The thing is, several people had been specifically asking podium to scumhunt. He's been posting constantly, but there's been very little in general.

he attacks Podium for attacking the arguments against him. He acts as though players can't have different perspectives on the game. He also seems to suggest that just making suspect lists is scum hunting.

Making a list of suspects, saying someone is scum, taking a goddamn opinion with legitimate reasoning within the first 50 posts you make... all of these constitute scumhunting. Maybe a better phrase would be taking stances. podium has taken no stances that actually had good reasoning behind them.

Implosion in post 263 suggests that Podium is Jester. This is a bizarre thing to do at this point. Podium has been fighting his lynch constantly, so it's doubtful that he'd be a jester. I can't really see why Implosion would want to derail the wagon. I think Implosion is probably just stupid.

He's been fighting his lynch, but on the other hand notice how even after several iterations of me asking my question, he didn't answer. The same applies to Fate's question that is supposedly the reason Fate is still voting him. If he were town, he'd answer. If he were scum, I still think he'd BS an answer. Which is why I have some suspicion. Not enough to act on at this point by unvoting.

I think Podium has defended himself pretty well against GW's attacks. As far as Fate's attacks go, I can easily see town being pissed off and refusing to answer Fate's last question, just as well as I can see scum doing it. So for me, this part of the argument is null.

What about

my

argument, to which he eventually just responded that I have to trust him?

Done reading. Blah. Long story short: MoI is right, podium has blatantly done no scumhunting at all (until earlier this page, and that's kind of shitty anyway). He just complains. And complains. And complains. His reaction to Fate is somewhat scummy IMO (though it's possible that it isn't) but the rest of what he's doing just isn't town. It just isn't.

This is a lazy opportunistic scum vote^tm.
Then later in this post, You start doing a long wall with horse shit reasoning that assumes podium is scum.

First of all, it is neither lazy nor opportunistic. First of all, I had to read through 10 pages since I haven't been keeping up. Second of all, he looked the scummiest to me. I had just come back into the game - how is me voting for him opportunistic?

You barely talked about the case on podium at all. You just hopped on it, without making any

good

analysis of your own. ('I think that's scummy' is

not

a good analysis.)

I gave an explanation. The reasoning that I had been thinking already existed in the thread. Maybe I didn't go in-depth into explaining myself but I think the reasons I voted him were clear.

And you automatically assumed motivations on my #176..without even criticizing the post in question. Why would you assume a scum motivation if you didn't even analyze it? Horrible.

I criticized your post... without criticizing your post. Interesting. The main reason you said that podium was essentially definite town was the way he reacted to Fate. Are (or were) you implying that a Fate-virgin scum would literally give up? OH BTW he did give up against me... what do you think about that?

The problem I have about your post is that I honestly don't think an honest, rational person could come to the conclusion that podium is obviously town. A dishonest, rational person could come to such a conclusion.

The fact that Seacore didn't even post just now

IIRC he said he'd have limited access this weekend and would only be able to read the game.

I'm done attacking podium for now, since he appears to have given up in post 268.

[implosion]

Not requoting to avoid giant textblocks.

I hold him to a higher standard because he's made oh... 7-8 times as many posts as me? And yet he's only given opinions on a few people, and only after being prodded to.

And what the hell do you mean by me just "posting for fun?" It's a

mafia game.

how the hell am I posting for fun? I'm not unvoting because my suspicion that he's jester isn't strong enough. Please actually read what I say, and don't just interpret it how you feel like interpreting it.

As for that not being all he said... funfact: he still said it. And he hasn't given any real comments on my case on him since that. He's essentially given up against me, as far as I can tell.

[implosion]

Not requoting to avoid giant textblocks.

I hold him to a higher standard because he's made oh... 7-8 times as many posts as me? And yet he's only given opinions on a few people, and only after being prodded to.

And what the hell do you mean by me just "posting for fun?" It's a

mafia game.

how the hell am I posting for fun? I'm not unvoting because my suspicion that he's jester isn't strong enough. Please actually read what I say, and don't just interpret it how you feel like interpreting it.

As for that not being all he said... funfact: he still said it. And he hasn't given any real comments on my case on him since that. He's essentially given up against me, as far as I can tell.

The number of posts is mostly irrelevant.
You are overestimating the quality of your argument if you think he is trying to get himself hung by not answering your question.
Cherry picking quotes is scummy.

First thing you said: so you're saying if person A makes 100 posts and 10 with good scumhunting, and person B makes 10 posts all of which contain good scumhunting, person A is better or the same? It isn't a game of quantity, it's a game of quality; I've done just as much as podium or more in much fewer posts. Hence, the number of posts is relevant. This would essentially be the difference between an active lurk (many posts, little content) versus a non-active lurk (few posts, but there is content within those posts). The first is scummy. The second is not.

I'm not "overestimating the quality of my argument." I was confused about why he seems to be purposefully avoiding questions (NOT JUST MINE) and the thought came to mind that it could be jester behavior.

And how the hell am I cherry picking quotes? Are you implying that by quoting something I'm automatically cherry picking? HOW DO YOU NOT THINK IT'S RELEVANT THAT HE FUCKING GAVE UP AGAINST ME? And speaking of which, do you have any opinion about that post, or are you just going to dismiss it as irrelevant because I'm the one that brought it up?

[implosion]

This back-and-forth is getting nowhere.

Here is a question for you: why haven't you been concerned with VibeBox communicating with you in thread?

If you mean that strange, incoherent thing he said earlier... I don't know what he meant. I asked him, and he replied with more gibberish. I haven't been concerned about it because I have no clue what it means, I asked him, and I doubt I'm going to get anything coherent about it.

just in case there is any confusion, when i said 'you should stop. just trust me' i was implying that what you were writing was making you look foolish, and that you should stop... as in: trust me, you should stop.

not 'just trust me, i'm not scum'.

If other people agree it was making me look "foolish" then fine; but if it wasn't (and it wasn't, considering how you were avoiding so many questions) then it still doesn't make sense that you didn't respond to anything I said.

More people need to talk.

[implosion]

How is 'His reaction is somewhat scummy IMO' not lazy? (Which was your comment on podium in your whole 241, others are lame questions and lame assertions that barely explain anything)? How is a vote hop onto the largest wagon with you barely doing anything to make sure of your read on podium not oppurtunistic?

His reaction wasn't the main reason I jumped on the wagon. I read through ten pages, and then said what I thought. Yes, I jumped on the largest wagon. No, I didn't do it without reasoning.

Podium's #314 said I was town because of my attention to detail and my perseverence in swimming through the muck.

What number post is this? 314 wasn't a post by podium.

Zdenek is right, you are cherry picking quotes.

Would you rather I quote every single thing podium has said? You can argue that anyone making a case is cherry picking by virtue of them only showing certain quotations - that doesn't mean that they are.

In your #241, you basically just said..."Vas has scummy motivations for defending Podium". While that's a cool theory and all, you've jumped the gun and automatically went to motivations. It doesn't work like that. You tie scummy actions first then to the scummy motivations. You are making it look like defending someone is scummy(it's not), and you assume I'm scum with scummy motivations.

I'm not saying that defending podium is scummy. I don't think saying the case on him is bad is scummy - I just don't think a townie would think he was town. And why can't it work like that? Because you said so? And I'm not even arguing from motivations - I'm arguing from use of logic. I just don't think that someone who was being honest would come to the conclusion that podium is obvtown.

[implosion]

Posting to say I'm still here. I'll make a bigger post tomorrow, and then it'll be Thanksgiving break.

[implosion]

Soo, implosion has been posting elsewhere for a while now and is actively avoiding this thread.

What do scum do again under pressure?

This game is going quickly, and I'm planning to make a bigger post here.

in regards to VV moving on implosion... i still feel that GW has acted the scummiest. implosion has been saying a lot of wacky stuff, and making points that are kinda ridiculous (mostly trying to paint me as scum). but for right now, i dont think he is acting... i get the feeling that he's the type of guy that engages in logic of that quality.

Not usually. Although I think I did tunnel too much. I don't know why. I'm thinking straighter now.

Fate - after reading Fate's ISO, I just have one question. In ISO 11 (and elsewhere early in the game) you say Ghost is blatantly town. Later you say and/or imply that Nacho is blatantly town. What's your opinion about them now? You really haven't said anything about Ghostwriter recently, and his recent behavior is definitely different from his behavior early game. As for Nacho, you make a lot of posts that imply that he's town. Why? And what justifies these towntells? Nacho himself (iirc) said that sheeping you is the best play for town or scum.

Ghostwriter - interested to see who he votes for next. He realized he was tunneling podium too much, as did I, just earlier. There isn't really a whole lot to comment on... most of the game, he tunneled podium and now he doesn't have a vote up.

Magna - I do not see anything vaguely scummy about anything he has said. Nacho and/or Fate because I'm not sure which one it actually is, why do you think he's scummy? Magna reads as town, because I can't find anything that doesn't read as town among his posts. I don't really get podium's case on him either, as outlined in podium's ISO 100.

Nacho - idk. Others seem to have a meta town read on him, and that's the best I'm going to do for now I think. He knows he's actively lurking, and doesn't want to do anything about it, but I don't know if that makes

him

scum. Nacho, do you have any reads on anyone that don't come from Fate?

podium - ISO 98-100 are nice. And yes, I definitely tunneled too much, and I still don't know why. Either way, 98-100 are all very good analysis. He looks town at this point.

Seacore - ISO 30 seems kind of passive-aggressive. Also, he appears to be riding coattails more than I realized before. His podium vote does look out of place, and as for recent posts... ISO 36, he asks someone else to sum up the case on me. He isn't really doing much on his own. In post 374, he finds podium scummy. At this point, there were still 3 votes on podium. Post 389, he says he's "as guilty of tunneling podium as anybody." Then in post 397 (his next "real" post) he just altogether changes to Vibe for lurking (I think). This makes little sense to me. And now he votes me,

without even having the case against me summarized by someone else as he said he wanted

(never mind, I saw VV's post) and without reading himself. Even if the case has been summarized, Seacore is still just riding VV's tailcoat. Frankly VV could have given any reasoning at all for voting me, and Seacore still would have been able to jump on me by saying he agrees. He's vote-hopping to the biggest wagon with little reasoning, even making a point about how it's now the biggest wagon.

VasudeVa - after sanely reading through his ISO, he seems like town. Most of his reasoning is good, and as for post 176 it is a better analysis than I thought. I still wouldn't agree with a "transparent town" label on podium at that point in the game, but I understand where he's coming from.

Vibebox - needs to post more reads. Honestly, my read on what he's posted so far is completely null. A lot of things he says are just... illegible. Not much to say until he takes a stance on someone. Magna's case on him could bear weight, but not as much as Magna says it does. Vibe just hasn't posted enough content for me to get a good read on him.

Zdenek - idk, also a null read for me at this point. He just hasn't said anything that I consider... notable, either way.

Unvote, vote: Seacore

[implosion]

Alright, I'll summarize the case on implosion in this post, and then respond on stuff in the next post.

The case on implosion is as goes:

Implosion's ISO #4 is super duper scum lazy opportunistic scum vote. He puts podium into L-2 with three shit reasonings: "I think that's scummy" (It's not.), "MoI is right" (He isn't.) and "podium complains a lot" (Yes he is, how is that scummy?)

You don't seem to understand my reason for voting him. The main reason was similar to MoI's argument that he hadn't been scumhunting, and he wasn't doing much in the way of it. The complaining thing was me saying he was doing that instead of scumhunting. And I don't know what you mean by "'I think that's scummy.'"

And there's also this quote right here:

If he summed up the thread exactly as you would have, then why the hell did you never mention a thing about Ghost or Nacho? And why does him summing up the thread as you would have make him town, anyway? He did something you would have done. Cool. He called you town. Cool. And this makes him town to you because...?

In this quote, he asks why podium thinks I'm Town. Never mind that podium already explained his Vas-Town reasoning here. He didn't even acknowledge podium's reasoning why he thinks I'm town. Instead...he asks again when the question has already been answered..? This is evidence that implosion is not even reading into the person he is accusing. He is lazily hopping along the wagon without his own investigation.

I think that when I wrote that post, I missed the reasoning that you cited here. Also, you're ignoring part of the question that I asked, which was about podium's stance on Ghost/Nacho.

And then the rest of the wall is either criticizing me and Seacore with some flimsy and fallacious reasoning. I can possibly buy the seacore reasoning, albeit how thinly stretched it might be...it could be a reasonable read. His reasoning on me, however, is a logical fallacy.

Any reasoning on you that I said in that post, I now realize was indeed stupid on a more attentive/thorough reading of 176.

[implosion]

implosion has a grand total of one scum read, and two townreads. His townVibe read also went to null like a magic vanishing act.

That's pretty tech.

Um... learn to count. Also I asked you a question, please answer it. I said scum on Seacore, town on Magna/podium/VV/Nacho, I had questions for you and Ghost, and null on Zdenek and null on Vibe until he posts more. As I said, I really wasn't sure why I thought Vibe was town... I couldn't find anything that made him look like town, so it's null. Anyone who thinks that this is a "fence-sitting" post needs to reread it.

Implosion, why are you so interested in who GW votes for?

He was tunneling podium all game, and now he finally unvoted. I'm interested to see which wagon he goes onto next.

The problem I have about your post is that I honestly don't think an honest, rational person could come to the conclusion that podium is obviously town. A dishonest, rational person could come to such a conclusion.

Further information for reviewing his opinion change on Podium.

This post was talking about VV, and I now realize that I really wasn't thinking straight when I wrote this.

And finally we have this –

podium - ISO 98-100 are nice. And yes, I definitely tunneled too much, and I still don't know why. Either way, 98-100 are all very good analysis. He looks town at this point.

@Implosion

– Are you stating that 98-100 is credible scum-hunting and has reversed your opinion (shown in your ISO up until ISO 17) on Podium.

Yes. When I voted him, the main reason was lack of scumhunting. 98-100 are all very good scumhunting.

Not usually. Although I think I did tunnel too much. I don't know why. I'm thinking straighter now.

Translation – the popular wagon on Podium fell apart and now I have to move in a different direction.

After Nacho and then Fate unvoted, it was essentially inevitable that the bandwagon was going to disappear. Others unvoted in tandem, not just me. And when I posted, he looked like town based on posts that only came after my other semi-recent post.

[implosion]

I'm at L-2, but 3/5 of the people voting me haven't actually given any justification of their own for voting me (Nacho, Seacore, Vibe). Nacho just sheeped Fate. Seacore... didn't even say anything about me. I'm not even on Vibe's scum list.

Vibe, why vote for me over someone on your scum list?

The first paragraph of Vibe's post interests me. It seems somewhat retroactive, but it makes sense. I think he's town if he actually has a reason for voting me, because I really doubt he would say something like this (that he was hoping to draw fire to end the RVS) as scum.

[implosion]

He knows he's actively lurking, and doesn't want to do anything about it, but I don't know if that makes him scum.

Why not?

...I don't know. My best guess would be that in this context, I don't think your active lurking is motivated by your alignment, I think it's motivated by your desire to sheep Fate.

The first paragraph of Vibe's post interests me. It seems somewhat retroactive, but it makes sense. I think he's town if he actually has a reason for voting me, because I really doubt he would say something like this (that he was hoping to draw fire to end the RVS) as scum.

You might be saying words here, but all I hear is "VIBE IS MY PARTNER THAT IS BUSSING ME BUT I JUST WANT HIM TO KNOW THAT HE BETTER MAKE A GOOD VOTE EXPLANATION POST SO YOU CAN COLLECT ON YOUR TOWNCRED POINTS".
nah mean?

If you think he's bussing, then why would he put me in the ??? category?

[implosion]

UT, did Vibe's vote magically disappear and is podium/Zdenek a doublevoter? Or did I just misread the vote count?

How would they be doublevoters? also Vibe unvoted in his ISO 10

[implosion]

UT, did Vibe's vote magically disappear and is podium/Zdenek a doublevoter? Or did I just misread the vote count?

How would they be doublevoters? also Vibe unvoted in his ISO 10

He voted me in ISO 14, and I'm pretty sure 3 voters = L-4, not L-3.

Fixed it. Thanks for pointing that out. Not sure how I missed his vote...derp.

edwop: I still want you to keep your vote on implosion, as he is obvscum, but I need you to explain your madness so that Seacore can resume his place on the GREAT WAGON OF JUSTICE.

I honestly don't see why you're tunneling me. You haven't even expounded a case on me... in fact only VV has, and I've responded to what's been said.

[implosion]

I'll claim if it gets to L-1 with a willing hammerer, and not earlier. If you're trying to rush it, I have no idea why... there's still well over a week until the deadline. As far as I can tell, there aren't enough people willing to vote me right now to warrant a claim. I'd still (obviously) rather lynch Seacore.

[implosion]

;_;

I'm Master Shake. Mason with Ghost. And also a flavor cop (I can investigate to find what character someone is, I think).

[implosion]

HOLY GOD.

THIS TOWN FAILS SO BAD.

IMPLOSION INCLUDED.

QFT

[implosion]

Implosion, could you ask the mod if you can be certain of GW's alignment?

I asked, and yes, I can be.

One replacement, yay. Now we just need one more...

[implosion]

@Magna: my investigations tell me what character someone is (like I thought). IDK

exactly

how this is supposed to help me catch scum, but it could be that they're suspicious characters (Dr. weird and his crew, the aliens, etc) and have fakeclaims. Just a thought.

@VV: where did you go and what do you think about recent developments? Also, quick ironic moment - his last posts talk about avoiding the thread and needing replacements, and he hasn't posted in 3 days (and according to Magna, has been posting in other games).

Fate, I really want to know actually... you yourself admitted that Vibe is likely town, which you said troubles you, which I don't see in your latest post. If you weren't tunneling on Vibe, who would you tunnel on next? Seeing as you essentially control

everyone's

vote because you control such a large block and so much influence at this time, why are you voting someone that you think is likely town (even if he could be unstable)? His most recent post/posts, though outdated because he hasn't posted in so long, seem to imply that he's going to become more stable (except for his vote on me).

[implosion]

@Magna: my investigations tell me what character someone is (like I thought). IDK exactly how this is supposed to help me catch scum, but it could be that they're suspicious characters (Dr. weird and his crew, the aliens, etc) and have fakeclaims. Just a thought.

I don’t think this is very likely the case Implosion. Mod has stated that you will not be able to break the game by relying on source flavor. Given that many of characters in ATHF would be flavor wise likely to be viewed as Scum I think simply going on a character alone is unlikely to yeild successes in the scum-hunting realm.

It's speculative. iirc the mod stated that the game was designed so a massclaim wouldn't break it, which could mean fakeclaims.

[implosion]

At least I'm not alone in lurking :\. RL is really tiring right now. Hopefully it won't be in the near future.

Er... Vibe's last post was nearly a week ago (he hasn't visited since then either). Would anyone really be opposed to me/Kcda/anyone else hammering at this point? The game's ground to a halt mainly over Vibe. I mean it'd suck not to get a claim first, but at this point if we're gonna get anything out of him someone's probably gonna need to replace in... again.

Sigh.

[implosion]

I'll look at the Magna case in-depth tomorrow, along with other things and stuff. I've been procrastinating all day... I'm not gonna do that tomorrow.

[implosion]

Actually, wait. he's not even in L-1.

Vote: MoI.

YES, ACTUALLY, HE WAS IN L-1... KCDA REVOTED.

o____o

[implosion]

oh wait. i'm stupid.

[implosion]

We have...43ish hours left from this post, I believe, assuming 12:34 PST means PM.

MoI indeed needs to claim as soon as he can. Nacho's case definitely looks better to me than MoI's rebuttal.

Also, Kcda looks more noobtown to me than noobscum. He's making real efforts at scumhunting, and I just don't see noobscum when I look at his posts.

[implosion]

Dr. Weird... HRM. idk what to think of that.

Good to see Nancy as her good old self again, though.

[implosion]

zomg bandwagon tiem

Vote: chkflip

ALSO, I am assuming that Magna was scum. Any objections?

[implosion]

Yeah... it's slightly odd that Dr. Weird is town, but not out of the realm of possibility. We may as well assume it unless there is reason to believe otherwise.

Also, a crosskill isn't the only other option - scum could have been roleblocked/jailkept or their target could have been docsaved/jailkept, and podium got vigged. That's really unlikely though. Or there's a PGO. Or... my god I'm overthinking this.

[implosion]

Thoo I admit they ARE uncc'd, but mason's? that's kinda convenient.

Alternative - it was what was in our role PMs. Either way, at the very least, rolenames flip. In many cases, alignments should be fairly obvious from these - I'm pretty sure Magna was scum.

Also, another thought arises concerning podium. Could he have been third party? Dr. Weird might make sense as a third party role. He might also make sense as, well, a doctor. Hrm.... stupid no flips.

Frankly I'm ambivalent in the first place about the Billywitchdoctor.com claim. Not the actual claim, but the ability - based on the real Billywitchdoctor.com (I just watched the episode ), it seems more likely than not that the revival wouldn't actually go through.

[implosion]

Good god this game is messed up.

My role specifies me being a mason. It does not blatantly specify me being a flavor cop. I am, however, indeed a flavor cop. I investigated chkflip and saw an onion. So I can confirm that he's Willie Nelson (who btw kept like 100 corpses in his attic, I watched that episode after getting my result PM).

Also oh god Nancy scumslipped

YOU DIE WITH TOWN.

[implosion]

...The yelling just doesn't have the same effect as when Nancy does it .

Zdenek's claim isn't necessarily scummy, just... weird. I really can't criticize him for claiming something like that, this game is really turning out to be quite bastardous. I doubt mafia would go with a claim of something that the mod has never heard of... unless it's WIFOM, but I doubt it.

[implosion]

Protip: I never claimed thief. I claimed flavor cop. Second protip: I said I

saw

an onion, not that I

took

an onion. I waited on the claim because I was hoping that he was scum and had a fakeclaim. Nice job on the false dichotomy btw (that the only explanation is that I did it).

Anyone wanna claim an action that would cause Kcdaspot to lose his sweatpants, or did scum do it / he's lying?

[implosion]

Huh. Yesterday I was under an impression that Kcdaspot really looked like town, but that was based on the assumption that he was a n00b. I'll just ask the question. Kcdaspot, are you an alt?

[implosion]

Yeeeaaahhhhhhh that isn't even close to a hammer I think it's L-2.

Fate and Nacho will need to claim eventually... are we doing a full-blown massclaim or not? I really have no strong opinion on the matter.

[implosion]

Guys, we need to lynch either seacore or podium. Podium isn't doctor weird anymore. he's a chicken. I rolecopped him. Intuition is that he's third party now, possibly with seacore.

I'll probably vote podium soon.

GW's death clears me as Master Shake.

This setup continues to be a mindfuck.

Discuss.

[implosion]

lol.

VOTE: RedCoyote.

Still skeptical about podium/Seacore, but fail claim is fail.

[implosion]

Other note: flavor about someone trying to "bleed Nacho dry" could possibly implicate chkflip (Willie Nelson).

Also, I like how we have a 2-page day after a 2-week night.

[implosion]

Well I rolecopped Zdenek and indeed he was the number 100, whatever that means >_>

I think I'm gonna assume he was some sort of serial killer.

I'm in favor of a chkflip lynch. Thoughts?

[implosion]

chkflip was Willie Nelson (makes sense with flavor that he'd be scum).

[implosion]

Um... does anyone wanna explain where the invisible vote on VV is coming from?

[implosion]

Yes, I did receive something disco-y last night, which does make me think Vas Is town.

Seacore/Podium, there's always a possibility that they're some kind of weird 2-person manufactured scum-cult, but that's fairly unlikely.

The more I think about this, the more Occam's razor is just telling me to hammer Chkflip. So that's what I'm gonna do in a few hours if there are no objections.

[implosion]

wait
wut
you're claiming vig

night actions and kill flavor. now. if it isn't consistent/sensical i instahammer.

[implosion]

You realize that if we take away those kills, the only ones left are the ones Zdenek made...

Which would mean the scum have no nightkill...

Also, why exactly did you shoot GW?

Hammering in next post if insufficient explanations are insufficient.

[implosion]

Screw it.

VOTE: chkflip

[implosion]

You changed your claim, which implied that the scum have no nightkill.

[implosion]

By changed your claim I'm talking about killing GW vs Nacho. See RedCoyote for more information about that.

[implosion]

investigated VV, got... a picture... it basically fits the character, i guess... sort of... i don't know, nothing makes sense

anymore

since this game started -_-

VOTE: no lynch

[implosion]

Same, I have no fucking idea what's happening, this just needs to end. May as well hammer now since I have internet for the next 30 minutes.

VOTE: VasudeVa

[implosion]

JUST SO YOU ALL KNOW I DID NOT KNOW I WAS SCUM UNTIL DAY SIX, THIS WAS THE MOST IRRITATING THING I'VE EVER DONE IN MY LIFE.

[implosion]

So lets see in retrospect. In retrospect, I was scum (with ghostwriter? i'm not sure) who had no nightkill, had an ability that revealed info that would be claimed in-thread anyway, did not know my own alignment, and literally could not tell anything that was going on.

Lack of alignment flips is honestly much less of a concern than lack of KNOWING MY DAMN ALIGNMENT.

[implosion]

you shant find this game in my w/l list.

[implosion]

So scum either lost their night kill at some point, or implosion just decided to stop using it?

I await the role pms and night actions, but thank god this game is over.

If I recorded wins and loses, I wouldn't record this as a win.

What night kill?