1119: The Might of Mordor: Game Over

[Plum]

/CONFIRMATORY

All systems: go.

[Plum]

I've never played with you either . . . technically. But naturally I recognize your smiling little mermaid

face

avatar, so

[Plum]

I mostly agree with Esurio regarding Imbuing. What we want most is keeping the Ring out of scum hands. What I disagree about - and with Gandalf also, it seems - is the idea that Town shouldn't be voting to Imbue anyone but themselves until we get our hands on on obv-Townie/only vote to Imbue someone you trust, and if you don't, don't vote to Imbue. We should be so lucky that people agree that well on such a thing, but I digress - Imbuing before we have concrete information is no worse than voting before we have concrete information. The so-called Random Voting Stage is generally a useful mine of information/moving on from randomness, and I see no reason that Imbue votes shouldn't be used in a similar way. There's about as little risk that a random/early Imbue-wagon will get hammered prematurely, and the benefits if that were to happen make for a decent trade-off anyway (just like super-early wagons, as a general rule). In the long run, yes, you should be voting to Imbue whoever you trust most (besides yourself, for all but one player). In the short term? Imbue at will.

In that vein:

VOTE: Mariyta for voting someone other than AMG while noting, with implicit disapproval (or if not, major ambiguity) that AMG was attempting to lead the Town. As if that's necessarily a bad thing.

Imbue: Edge

. Confirmation stage looked Townie as hell. And considering that Town = hell, that's a pretty good sign.

PREVIEW EDIT: Yo Katy!

[Plum]

hmmmmmmmm Plum calling me town before I've done anything TOWN-like?

IS YOU A SCUMGIRL AGAIN THIS TIME? I WONT BE FOOLED TWICE.

IF I'D REMEMBERED WHO YOU WERE THIS MAYBE WOULD HAVE BEEN RELEVANT. IN ABSENCE, UH . . . LULZ.

Ye gods, will people stop softclaiming/whatever claiming? Maybe Edge is exempt because yeah but there are people here who don't have that excuse, and whom I'd expect to be smarter or whatnot >.<.

Hey Gandalf, why vote to Imbue SpyreX?

Vote and Imbue? Check.
Talking about lack of accountability IN A POST WHERE YOU IMBUE SOMEONE? Check.
Saying that 'flavor' would mean the ONE RING DOESNT DO THINGS TO EVERYONE? Wooosh Check.

I'm not seeing anything here but the first line, and that just might be RVS shenanigans.

@Plum: It wasn't vote-worthy, just note-worthy. I can actually see town saying something like that more than scum, but I still wanted to point out how dumb it was.

So if you didn't intend your noting to mean that AGM's action was scummy, and in fact you think it's null at least - why the ambiguous statement where it looks like you're implying that it's scummy? Why didn't you say something like 'Null/not scummy, but dumb, and noted' ?

Gandalf has it right. Don't imbue anyone you don't trust. My question is why are so many people so trusting at this stage in the game?

Are you pretty damn sure that Edge is a good lynch today? If not, why are you voting to lynch him? ANSWER: Because there's no harm in early-game imbue votes. Hell, I'd forgotten who Edge was and he got some extra Townpoints in my book for having a Fate-like approach (more intuitive as Town and harder to pull off as scum) until I realized that, oh yeah, he

is

Fate (and RC). But it makes no difference because there will be no serious Imbue wagon that's liable to go through before people have serious Townreads - and in the meantime, early/quasi-random Imbue voting can't hurt.

The singer case is, uhhhhhm, interesting. By which I mean cruddy through and through. I don't see her intentionally not unvoting quadz and I don't see anything but null in forgetting to do so. Of the ones voting her, I'm inclined to say AGM's response is the scummier - it's some piggybacking with some qualifying with some idle wondering on my part why he hadn't been voting anyone before this despite having time to talk about mechanics. Yeah, AGM hasn't been involved in anything, I don't think, which is one better than Mari.

@esurio - Hmm, fair point, but Mari was very ambiguous in her sentiments when she noted AGM's behavior.

Gandalf, the information relevant to this game is probably not in the Silm . . . but enjoy the book anyway . In terms of scum being able to use the Ring, the implication is that yes, the good guys could've used it for powerful stuff (though I don't think we're lucky enough for it to corrupt them), so I'm not sure that we should be on it being only action-immunity for them. Granted, your reasoning for having thought that scum don't have superpowers makes sense in your contexts, so I see Edge's logic but disagree with the conclusion. Instead, let's try this:

UNVOTE:

VOTE: AGM

PREVIEW EDIT:

Ok, I'm changing my mind about Gandalf. His arguments are becoming too pointed to be dumbtown and are more likely to be coming from scum.

1) This kinda offbeat theory that scum don't have super powers / cannot utilize the ring. This possibility did not occur to me AT ALL. Maybe it did for other people, in which case I'm wrong, but it smells like insider info.

2) The whole "ring makes scum action immune, so nobody targets ringbearer." Same as above. It is just not something that occurred to me AS TOWN.

3) Why the hell would we give the ring to a random NULL read and not a strong TOWN read? Or someone claiming to have a good power?

1. Flavorwise it's not the craziest thing to say, and I know the flavor.

2. Same as above.

3. Only decent point in the lot.

Where's the Gandalf vote??? NONE.

CHECKMATE.

[Plum]

imbuing seems more powerful than lynching

O_O

I guess this is where our opinions differ. But seriously, WTH. How can you believe this is possible? I just.

Ambiguous statements can leave an out for scum to go with the flow (the way yours went, you could've theoretically joined in any AGM hate that followed and if none did just say you meant it was null but worth noting. It has nothing specifically to do with wording it

the way I would have

; I was just giving an example of a phrasing that wouldn't be conducive to scum opportunism with the statement).

[Plum]

Fate, dude, if you'd managed to post UNDER THIS ACCOUNT for a reasonable percentage of the game I Modded I might've remembered.
\

[Plum]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... start=2450

14 PAGES OF ISO LOL NICE FUCKING TRY.

Also, if you're in a hydra, it's much preferred that you attempt to keep your posting from the hydra account only

PLUM DIES SOON

I remember quite a lot of breakage of that preference during the game, but regardless, I didn't properly make the connection this time.

Fate, I know better than to waste my breath on this. I don't know why I was senile back there, but I know you well enough that you're not going to listen to reason - or anything much else - on this. If you want to have this discussion, give me a ring, but now that you've gotten it into your head that I'm scum you're not going to let go of the notion no matter how ridiculous the tell. Even if you

believe

in the tell - from your ramblings it seems that it matters little to you whether or not I forgot who you were or not; you think I'm scum and you don't listen to arguments, only your loquacious self. I came, I saw something that smelled good, I posted. If I could come up with such inventive lies as major amnesia I'd save them for things which wouldn't get you ranting at me in all caps, because I get plenty of that whenever I play with you. Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes, bucko.

Now, onto the people who aren't too stubborn to talk to:

Mari, I was going to ask you whether or not you thought it was likely I'd actually lied, but you addressed that, so I'm just left with you having put your vote on me with the tag 'sheeping Fate' - why'd you put it like that, if you thought it was because I was reaaching (and given that, I can't properly address your issues with me except to say that I've been investigating early issues which sometimes involves poking at things and then weighing if they're significant or not)? Gandalf is at least clear - though Gandalf, I

would

ask you in what way my last post was 'undeniable'. Wait. You think that my #73 was the lie? Uh, can you elaborate, because I don't even. Of that game, I most vividly remembered Fate's semi-spam under his own account, which in my mind made for an unreasonable percentage of posts from there.

Also in reviewing your posting, I don't necessarily take issue with your first post for trying to direct town, I take issue with it as an essentially meaningless post. I always find it suspicious when people post as if they are giving game insight, and then you really look at it and all they are doing is stating the obvious. Which is basically what your first post was.

So let me get this straight - you are voting for me because my first post of the game didn't say anything relevant?

Hellllooooooooo scum in need of an excuse to get on the wagon.

Uh, well, actually saying useless things while trying to mask them as useful insights can be a scum tactic, so I'm not sure why you're strawmanning her point. Especially given that you're voting someone on whom you don't even see a full

case

, only an argument which happens to be worth pretty little.

Gandalf, take a deep breath and turn down the loose cannon, please.

SO FOR ALL YOU FUCKING FUCKS WHO ARE LIKE "DERP PLUM FORGETTIN YOU IZ FATE IS NULLTELL/WHAT IS SCUM MOTIVATION I DUN GET IT!?!?!?"

THERES NO WAY IN FUCK SHE MISSED THAT POST, AND THEN SHE SHOULDVE WENT "HUH? FATES IN THIS GAME? WHERE?" ORR "FATE? OHHHH EDGE IS FATE THATS RIGHT" ORRR ANYTHING

I

did

. And then I said to myself "I was up until past three in the morning last night, so it'll probably make sense once I've gotten something resmbling a proper night's sleep".

Onto the real work:

AGM, update me on your opinion of SS in the intervening pages according to you and why it's so conclusive you're not touching Gandalf or Katy or anything. Please kthx.

quasi-irrelevant peanut gallery-type comments aside, while I still don't buy Fate's 'case' itself, Plum's absence in response to it is telling. 2 posts on the 27th (not counting confirm post), 3 on the 28th, and none today. I find it hard to believe she wouldn't make at least one post today in response to all this as town, rather than resorting to "LURK MOAR AND THE VOTES WILL GO AWAY" mode.

Haven't I pleased with you before? Avatar Mafia or something, right? Maybe I wasn't clear that time that I have a perpetual Sabbath date from Friday afternoon until Saturday evening then, or here, but I have rarely seen such a lame excuse for jumping on a wagon than 'she hasn't posted for almost 30 whole hours, so' . . . so she must be lying about having forgotten that Edge = Fate? So she must be scum lurking? Tested out the waters of my wagon, weren't sure, and then decided to take the plunge in the hopes that it would buy you some credit in Fate/Edge's eyes but you'd already locked yourself into too much ambivalence to join without saying I must be scum lurking?

Gandalf's statements about giving the Ring to a good player over a super-Town player aren't scummy - yet. If his Imbue votes when the going gets serious don't line up with pretty decent Townreads of his, maybe - but I think his point as he stated it is different from the actual practice he'll espouse.

VV, as of right now I do not have a scumread on SS.

[Plum]

"If you want to have this discussion GIMME SUPOERPOWAHZ" what horseshit is this Plum?

Not what I said.

"smelled something good" BULLSHIT. Like I said in one of my last posts, THERES NO WAY YOU CAN FUCKING READ THAT AND NOT IMMEDIATELY THINK OF ME.

A while afterwards I wondered how many people had picked up your playstyle, and a while after that I made the connection properly.

Gandalf is 100% town and 100% right, she's trying to deflect suspicion with the AGE OLD "but why would I DO that as scum?" because sucm MAKE MISTAKES and are noy always playing to a perfect scumagenda.

I didn't say that; others did.

Ye gods, I don't know why the hell I bother.

PREVIEW EDIT:

Speaking of which: I NOTICE YOU DONT BOTHER EXPLAINING YOURS, YOU JUST RANDOMLY THROW IN NOT ONLY THAT YOU THINK IM TOWN, BUT THAT I AM "CLEAR"

I said that your reasons for voting me we clear as opposed to unclear. Doesn't mean I think you're auto-Town, though you're not among my top suspects.

[Plum]

See, the problem with that is simple: PLUM DID NOT LIE.

YES SHE DID

14% of the game that Plum modded with Edge was Edge posting, and she had to warn him SEVERAL times about posting out of hydra. There is NO WAY that she forgot that Edge was a Fate hydra.

That game I associate with Fate claiming Cop when he wasn't. And then claiming lots of other stuff. Heavily using his own account. I don't know why I'm going down this road again, but I am. If you have honestly forgotten something that should've been obvious in your day-to-day activities, I'd like to know what you're on.

-Plum's lack of committing to a read on me right now (yes I know she vaguely said not-scummy or something of the sort) seemed a little suspect. Not the fact that it's not very confident, but the fact that it was very open for change/backtrack. Not scummy, but not town, either.

I C WHAT U DID THAR. Seriously, a few pages into Day 1 and not only are you poking at me because I don't have the strongest read on everyone in the game, BUT you have a vague wishy-washy backtrack/take either turn happy read on me. Pot, do I have the honor of introducing you to kettle? I cannot believe you've never met before. And, guess what, Edge and I agree on this.

No way. No other words are necessary.

Oh man, SpyreX, sheeping the sheepity sheep? No, really, you've never seen anything remotely less believable go down in a game and have the person flip Town? Because it's happened a lot to me and we play in a lot of the same games. You really believe I'm lying about this? Tell me why and we'll talk, and that will make like one or two of you in a game full of players I can only try to talk through their RAGEFITS. What do you think of AGM and what of SS. In one sentence. Go. Please. Because if everyone's tunneled on Edge's misaimed tunnel he's never going to get out of, at least you or I dunno VV or someone sane might at least take a passing glance around at all the lurking non-contributing scum. As a thought.

Awkward. The question has nothing to do with imbuing; Mari’s vote on Edge had nothing to do with imbuing. The subsequent comments about forgetting who Edge was are gratuitous, and an unnecessary explanation like that reeks of nervous energy which makes me believe she is scum trying to cover a slip.

The wording was perhaps a little awkward; I'm a bad judge of my own phrasology, but. My point was that early-game Imbue votes were not more harmful, and potentially useful in the same manner as, early game/random stage votes. My point was that despite the fact that my Imbue vote was aimed at something that seemed mildly Townish (Edge's /confirm stage entrance) but was null (because Edge = Fate), there was no harm done nor any risk in not changing it immediately, because it wasn't going to come to anything more dangerous than an RVS vote on a mild scumsense that turned out to be null would be. I can't vouch for why this struck you as wrong or full of nervous energy, but I'll have to commend you for putting actual thought into why this might strike someone as scummy. You ask why I'd bring it up at all, and I'll answer: Edge referenced me being scum like another time, which when I first read it confused me (not recalling having played with Edge &c.). So I explained that the playstyle in general feels Townish, which was as good a reason as any for an early Imbue vote. The fact that the mild Townpoints got shaved off a bit because Fate does this automatically as any alignment was incidental. I mentioned it in context of why it wasn't critical that early Imbue votes be on players who were conclusively Town, because I'd given mine on an inconclusive mild Towntell and it didn't make a whit of difference to the eventual Ring-getter that the Towntell was in fact invalid.

I'm perfectly happy with the Plum wagon, but I think the reason for most of it is weak.

Run that one by me again? If you're actually still happy with the wagon on me because I was 'reaching' earlier will you please say something concrete I can respond to? From Gandalf and Fate I guess I don't have much in the way of standards, but if you're willing to let this lynch go through with everyone voting me for a reason you disagree with . . . has it ever occurred to you that scum could be sheeping Fate for the lulz when he's completely off base and uninterested in changing is mind? Or are you really just happy to get me lynched and conveniently have the excuse of not believing the main case on me when I flip Town?

Basically: O RLY

I have something else to sell to you then.

AGM - Do you think Edge is scummish or Townish? One word answer. Pronto.

[Plum]

Now here's something for you to respond to: What do you think of gandalf's play, aside from his sheeping Fate mercilessly?

His setup speculations seem to be Town-based, partly because they're illogical/wrong (things scum wouldn't come up with or wouldn't say because it doesn't mesh with their worldview) and partly because I believe Townies in general will do more flavor speculation than scum.

I understand you have some reasons for voting me involving me making weak arguments of some sort. I don't know what arguments you're referring to or why you find them weak &c. So I can't respond to them except in the most general sense, which isn't likely to explain things properly to either of us.

Sorry for that line, if it bothered you. Maybe I've allowed Fate to rub off on me or maybe I'm just frustrated.

PREVIEW EDIT: Gandalf, not agreeing with Edge/saying something before Edge if it's a single minor fluctuating point in the overall argument does not mean you're not sheeping Fate. I'm surprised you're taking offense at the notion, actually.

[Plum]

It's a rule of thumb. Beyond that you're a Fate sheeper. That's generally fairly null (and given you don't have one of the worst votes on the wagon, well).

[Plum]

This is sad, because I like Plum, I don't want to believe she could betray me like this. :'( One thing I'd like to see addressed by Plum is why she stated Edge's confirmation looked townie. What made you think it was so town, Plum? Especially given that you claim not to have known who the player was at that point?

Generally a lack of caution, boldness, fired-upness early is something I associate with Townieness (but is a general playstyle of Fate's, and on him was give or take null). Was it

that

Town? Sort of, and sort of was an opportunity to use the Town as hell pun.

[Plum]

Plum is scum and your lates post has NOTHING, not ONE THING in it besides "why is plumscum fate" AGM, that means you get death soon.

This is a terrible line of logic; just because I'm not SHEEPING AND IMITATING YOU IN A DESPERATE ATTEMPT TO BE COOL like gandalf does not make me scum.

Anyway, I get your point on the Plum case now. I'm STILL a bit hesitant because it personally took me a few pages to realize who you were … but then again, I did not mod a whole game with you in it. Additionally, given the context (which you could have just referenced instead of dancing around it for 3 pages, but whatever), it does seem like pretty bad backpedaling.

Unvote, vote: Plum

AGM - Do you think Edge is scummish or Townish? One word answer. Pronto.

Nullish.

Not apologizing for not sheeping + actual sheeping = I'M SORRY FATE I WASN'T SHEEPING YOU BEFORE I'MA MAKE IT UP TO YOU.

PLUS

You voted to Imbue yourself? It's majority needed to Imbue. You just put me at L-1 and didn't vote one of the top Imbue wagons, giving yourself a vote which is either pointless or counterproductive. Way to keep things actually moving. I've been voting you and I'm damn glad I've been voting scum nearly this entire blasted game.

[Plum]

I'm town, so no. And with regards to the imbue, there's still a ways to go on any particular wagon, so I don't see why I need to pile on.

Because the Ring is used at Night? And you VOTED ME TO L-1?

Agreeing with the case sudden-like with no clear understanding of why you suddenly changed your mind about it

is

worthy of more than a derp derp. With or without a vote. But yeah, the sudden L-1 vote doesn't make me feel any better about you.

[Plum]

Right, but, and correct me if I'm wrong here, if we reach a lynch, but no one reaches an imbue "hammer", no one gets the ring.

You're right. My point is that 1) L-1 is not a lynch, so we can still give someone the ring and 2) there is no OBV-RINGWAGON (e.g., nobody on the ring VC is at L-1/2).

You're expecting things to just sit here with me at L-1 while you try to figure out who to imbue? Really? While you do nothing to help the process along? Well, at least you reminded me of something:

unimbue

Imbue: Sevei

[Plum]

Shoot, I thought Sevei had an actual following.

unimbue

Imbue: quadz

[Plum]

-You say imbuing doesn't matter much, but you seem awful concerned about the reasons for imbuing. I also don't like that you seem almost as blase about imbuing as AGM.

I understand that we have a different view regarding the strength/seriousness of Imbue votes, and I don't think the reason for our difference of attitude is

necessarily

related to alignment per se. But in general, I was asking because I don't believe SpyreX had done anything besides a very vanilla confirm to that point, and Gandalf's followed Edge's Imbue vote on SpyreX. It was worth looking at in the same way a guy sheeping a Fate vote on page two onto a guy who hadn't done anything yet would be worth poking at.

[Plum]

And I admit, that was a little hasty of me to call Plum out for fencesitting. But again, I explained that it wasn't her fencesitting that was the problem, it was how it was worded. She seems to be very good at playing a semantic game, so I wouldn't have expected that from her.

Hold on a sec, remind me which post rubs you the wrong way?

That's actually very insightful. Hmm... However, if Plum is scum, I would not doubt at least one scum buddy is on her wagon. And if she's not scum, well, the same holds true.

So, uh . . . that was a useful conclusion much?

Spy, if

you

don't want to take the shiny special Ring, and you don't want

Quadz

to have it, I wanna know who you

would

want to have it and possibly why your vote isn't there, because whoever it is it doesn't look like a quickImbuehammer would be possible so I dunno what you're waiting for and why you're whining about a wagon when you're not voting a counterwagon and I'm at like L-2.

[Plum]

DUDE.

I just.

1. But it would've been better to just - if you actually thought I was scummy worth hammering and whatnot - Imbue someone else and wait for Night. You could always claim your power if you ended up under suspicion Day 2 and use the power then. If you were afraid of NK, confirmation would have done nothing (because it's only you that gets confirmed, so).

Actually I don't see why the hell anyone wanted to Imbue that power once it was claimed. I mean, besides scum RBing AGM (if that's possible, and I wouldn't be surprised if it were), if it's true, scum could kill AGM and guess what we'd have gained. ZILCH.

2. I was at L-1. If you wanted you could've pushed me to claim and pushed for a quick conclusion to an Imbue wagon you felt was decent and not have had to worry about this.

3. It's only useful if you don't have to claim the power as shown above. No one will Imbue someone who's sliding towards scummy. Therefore trying to Imbue yourself just. Wouldn't. Work. Like. That.

Now I'm going to have to have to reread the super AGM burst and bust and see who the heck wanted to Imbue this fine fellow and try to peel the stupid Town from the scum.

WHAT NO MY BRAIN IT BURNS. Thanks a lot, AGM.

HI EDGE WE'RE FRIENDS AGAIN OR SOMETHING <3

GANDALF IS LIKE IMPRINTED ON YOU SHEEPING SRSLY.

[Plum]

Okay, so, AGM Imbue votes.

Edge at least the thought process behind Imbuing and getting the Imbue vote off is apparent. That's actually more than I can say for the rest on a whole.

Gandalf's Imbue vote I cannot read because it's tailing Edge but man he's going to have to show he's committed a few of his own braincells to this game and sharpish.

SPYREX is smart enough to notice that it's not a power worth Imbuing once it's claimed, or at least think about some of the ramifications or potential flipsides.

Quadz says something about accountability at least.

KATY is just going with the flow way way too much; I can't remember much if anything of what she's done. Encouraging testing is not thinking about the potential major pitfalls if AGM is lying, not for real. If you're worried that AGM might be scum you'd try to think through the ramifications of giving him the Ring in the first place. And considering Katy had been voting AGM just before . . . NO. Dammit we've let Katy drift as she pleases getting no heat WAY TOO LONG.

Mari says . . . nothing really.

The hell, all of these are freaking scummy except probably Edge and quite possibly Quadz. The rest all stick in different ways, but KATY. Is prob-scum.

PREVIEW EDITS:

No, seriously. If you were scum, and you were about to die, but your superpower was something super awesome like "Recruit another member at the cost of your own life"(just the first thing that pops to mind, I know it's a little much), then how would you make sure you lived and got to use it? Say that you could be confirmed, of course.

This. Thanks, Gandalf.

AGM trying to discredit that by citing Gandalf's early game flavor-based setup speculation is WEAK.

He's played scummily, and if the two people (which should be chosen by the town, btw) do not receive a PM that says he's confirmed, then he gets rope tomorrow. However, having a confirmed townie is a very powerful asset for the town, so I think it's worth giving him the Ring tonight.

If he's played scummily, we SHOULD NOT give him the Ring. There's too much potential for Roleblocks and/or WIFOM related to such, or, worse yet, for him to die before any use if made of his confirmed Townieness.

[Plum]

Mari says . . . nothing really.

Ya know, I was going to find a nice way to say this, but screw you.

Pardon?

AGM, are your two targets confirmed as town, too, or can you target scum?

Imbue: AGM

Maybe you said a little in the way of asking about accountability. What I saw was a fairly automatic Imbue vote for AGM added. The question didn't seem to require an answer before you voted a pretty big Imbue wagon. And you're the one who's said that Imbuing is/can be more powerful than the lynch, come to think of it. So that's not really saying anything besides joining the Imbue wagon. No?

PREVIEW EDIT:

@AGM

- Did Gandalf sheep that thought process or not? In any case, the point is still valid.

[Plum]

I also think if we are going to play as paranoid as many people are getting right now, then we are going to paralyze ourselves out of doing anything. I think it's worth testing his claim if we can get a mod-confirmed townie, especially one like AGM who might have to become an NK target over more desirable targets for scum, if he becomes a confirmed townie. For me, the potential benefits make this a worthwhile risk. Scum WANT you to second guess every plan that may help town. They want town to be afraid to take risks. They want town to be scared that they have massive superpowers that can destroy us. But we are the frakking dark forces of Sauron and we have the RING. We do not cower like babies before cutesy little half-men and simpering elves.

We don't cower. But we also think twice before handing off our Master's treasure. If you thought AGM was pretty scummy before, you should at least be considering what he gains out of claiming this if he is, in fact, scum.

Anyway, if I was scum, I could have just helped get you lynched today instead of sticking on AGM until the bitter end.

WIFOMbowl.

VV, disagree about Ring-destroying powers (I doubt they exist) but agree re: AGM wanting to do something with the Ring before he goes. His claim at L-1 was one where we would think twice about lynching him not before he had a Night to prove himself, but

before we gave him the Ring

.

Love AGM relentlessly spewing pure empty rhetoric. About rabble-rousing.

SpyreX, you don't get things? I don't get where you're at. Please fill me in, because I don't see any news from you at all.

The case on Plum (calling Edge obv-Town early yet forgetting it actually included Fate) is so-so but Plum’s reaction isn’t what I would expect from Plum-Town. In [REDACTED] the mention by me that she wasn’t obv-Town (not scum mind you, just not obv-Town) was met with an immediate and emotional attack. Her response to Edge here is much more along the line of ‘Ooops, tehehehe’. Damning? No. But inconsistent enough that I think it scummy.

There's a big difference between here and [REDACTED]. There's a big difference between being called scum and being called not obv-Town, given the contexts. Just as there's a difference between sincere but incorrect scumhunting and mudslinging. Don't confuse the two; I

responded

to a case of sorts by Edge; in [REDACTED] I found reason to

attack

you. Regarding your attack on Mari/hohum: My problem with Mari, thinking about it again, is her eager jump to the AGM-Imbue wagon, because she's said that Imbuing was, in her mind, (potentially?) more powerful than the lynch.

Maritya/hohum needs to swing. Followed by quadz/singersigner.

So Plum, why did you lie?

*coughpostasEdgecough*

I didn't lie. You obviously believe I did. Given that I've already talked about what happened and responded to most of the people who thought/think I lied/might have lied, I don't think there's anything new for me to say, though you're welcome to ask. That said, why do you believe I lied?

If you are not going to defend Mari’s play (which is a reasonable thought process since you aren’t her) then going ‘on the offensive’ and scum-hunting should be what you do.

If you want my opinion of the game so far you should be looking at the people who voted me immediately after replacing in and before I ever made my first real post. The FATE/RC hydra needs to go.

This is your scumhunting technique???

[Plum]

I wasn't leery of you tunneling off weak reasoning or a misguided assumption because IT'S NULL FOR YOU TO DO SO. It's also null for you not to listen to reason when you've gotten an idea into your head. Combine that with other people being scummier about me (Mari was here-and-there, AGM was worse) and yeah, I was focused on other scumhunting avenues.

And my posting rate varies as any alignment. If there's anything specific you can point to re: me being uncomfortable posting I may be able to respond; otherwise I can't say much but you're also not saying much.

Yes I still think AGM is v. scummy and am not impressed by his claim and I do not think that his claim in context of his behavior should change anything about my scumread on him. And I'm not interested in apologizing for that.

[Plum]

Yes, I often post in response to someone else talking about me. Deal.

[Plum]

NO. SORRY. WRONG.

1. He was still a viable wagon last I checked.
2. You've done some moderately Townish things since plus I've recently done some asking but your other head hasn't responded as far as I can see.
3. If you want to cite posts of mine that make you think I feel uncomfortable about posting in the game, please cite. If not, citing my tone isn't an argument I nor anyone in this game can understand or respond to. If you believe you have anything damning against me, nothing's stopping you from spitting it out.
4. Yes self-meta; buzzwords don't scare me and if you need me to nudge you to remember some games we were both in they're not going to stop me. The second thing I can't properly parse but I'm going to hazard a 'no'.

[Plum]

I spent most of the morning spelunking this thread and I really like Katy for the first scum now.

Vote: Katy

I've got a plane to catch in an hour, so I'll post an update when I land in Abaco later on.

O RLY? Spent that long browsing the thread and you couldn't quote anything of Katy's that qualified as some sort of scumtell? I'm not too pleased with Katy myself, but this reeks of someone avoiding posting his opinions in the thread. And resorts to calling out a player for lurking when Sevei was, give or take, on V/LA.

UNVOTE
VOTE PLUM

KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE

BUT ONLY IF WE GET TO LYNCH SS TOMORROW.

Do me a favor, sheep, and if I get lynched today think twice about lynching SS over someone like AGM. Or hohum.

I still believe Plum is scum, for all the reasons that have been listed before.

I know you've been short on time, but have you read my responses to your points?

And, holy fucking shit. He's deliberately bringing back "OMG YOR LYING ABOUT PAST META!!" discussions with his #473. This shit already happened with Plum and you're bringing it back again?

I’m sorry I missed the part where I wasn’t able to make observations in the game.

vote: MasterSpy(Plus, I have an MoI D1 lynch streak going on and I dun wanna break it. >:D)

This is further evidence you just are bad at this game, not that half the game doesn’t already know this.

1. Calling 1 game a streak is classic.
2. So you want to continue that ‘streak’ where you lynched me as Town? Yeah, that’s smart

Do us all a favor and lay of the weed. It’s irreparably damaged your cognitive functions.

Is there some part of you so humorless that you simply cannot take a joke for what it is???? Srsly.

MasterSpy, I'll say it once and once only: If you had pointed out anyone as 'not obv-Town' in the way you did in the game, and I noticed, I would have found it scummy by virtue of how it was done in the context of the game'. I didn't regard it as an attack by you. I regarded it as a scummy move you made. Me being the subject was incidental. Not that I expect you to listen.

RC, the pressure on me, as you put it, got relieved because we

got a bandwagon going on someone I still think is scum

.

Ah, screw it. If AGM isn't getting lynched I could see a lot worse than lynching hohum. THOUGH AGM has done like Jack-squat in the past few whiles.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: hohum

[Plum]

DID IT EVER OCCUR TO YOU THAT MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE I'M NOT SCUM? DURRRR.

I WASN'T AWARE THAT YOU HAD SOMETHING TO RESPOND TO THAT DIDN'T INVOLVE AN ANSWER I ALREADY KNEW.

[Plum]

Exactly what I meant when I said an answer I already knew.

Hm? That post? If you're interested in actuality, fine. If it's just going to be an excuse to tell me yet again that you think I'm scum, in all-caps . . . well I guess it's your lucky day, pal.

1. Still looked viable to me, still was a top suspect, still wanted him lynched.
2. No. It was 'moderately Townish things from you' and as a side point I'm still waiting on something with RC. There's a difference, nach.
3. I like to respond to cases. This is a general thing about me. And yeah, I know you have sheep. Doesn't mean the shepherd knows where he's going nor does it convince me his brains are being used here. I am also not, as it happens, dying. And I rather don't plan on it. I plan on lynching scum instead.
4. I like to respond to cases on me. Regardless of alignment.

P.S. I don't dance with guys.

[Plum]

. . .

Maybe I shouldn't let

you

tell me how to live my life . Maybe I'll dance with a guy, singular, if I'm married to him and we're in private. And although we're getting off topic going back would probably be a rehash so I don't really mind.

[Plum]

No, wrong again re: scum and/or claiming scum. Re: life, there seems to be a GD topic for religion now.

[Plum]

Shhh stay off topic its ok its ok. I don't want to argue with you anymore.

GD is a scary place. Plus we're the only ones here right now, and I'm at my best when dealing with people 1 on 1.

Plus who said anything about religion?

I guess me.

Yeah, I've often thought it would be interesting and fun to let myself have perfect freedom. There's plenty I want to do that I won't because of religion/personal scruples/not wanting to rock the boat. And I'm fairly openminded at that. But at the same time there are so many experiences that I will never have. You can't have all the experiences that are out there; you can't be good at everything, read everything there is interesting to read, enjoy everything that's pleasurable because you only live so long. And at only a certain time in history, born in a certain place to a certain family in a certain culture. Given that, you have to find a way of judging what the most meaningful path of experiences and intelligences will be for you - or at least determining a way to narrow down the huge number of options available. That said having as much fun as I can is not a top top priority; meaning is another story, though obviously the two aren't mutually exclusive. There's no right way to live - but depending on who you are there will be different ways of living life approaching your ideal life. As far as I can see, mine doesn't involve dancing with boys.

[Plum]

If you try for everything you're likely to end up with nothing. You have to invest time and energy in some things in order to get anything rewarding out of them, and at the expense of other things you could be experiencing.

Like Mafia. You have to stick around long enough and invest enough time in to understand the nuances, hang out with people, stuff. Only then can you enjoy the experience of, say, running a Large Theme based on cool source material (optional: with a friend who's also into the source material). There are countless other things I could've done with that time. I could've taught myself to play the piccolo, I guess. But I spent time playing Mafia instead? Good choice? I dunno. Fact was that everything is a choice at the expense of other options. You have a map, you carve a path - you can't cover every inch of ground and if you try you won't get very far.

Regarding dancing with boys, it has to do with my religion. If you want to call that 'someone else telling me what to do with my life,' you can call it that. That said, I'm not especially interested in most dancing-with-guys scenarios the way things are now anyway.

[Plum]

Gosh. The hate is just pouring out of everyone. I can't even feel happy that somehow we

did

win, and props to the MasterSpy duo for hanging in there because everyone is hating so hard. I guess I'll have to settle for saying that I really did forget who Edge was initially and that Sevei was the only one who, I felt, identified any of the underlying scumtells in my behavior regarding the mistake and that all things considered my flailing was only proportional to the fact that I was under serious lynch pressure very quickly. Whatever.

Town had a nice amount of power.

Andy should not have used a system so far removed from NAR without giving a warning of some sort. Having the Invent-action resolve after the kill such that an Invention would fail the Night the Investigator was killed . . . yeah. But kudos on keeping the game running despite lots of frustration amongst the players at the other players.

[Plum]

Its all under the bridge though, I'm happy with my D1 reads. Don't let Reaper trick you though the Plum lynch waas all mine. I know Plum thinks only Sevei caught her, but just because I didn't POST elaboratr reasoning in thread doesn't mean I didn't catch you.

It wasn't the elaborateness of Sevei's posts that made me think that. But give yourself all the acknowledgment you want; I know you will anyway. Hell, you already have. This post, posted in game, ragged on me after my lynch in what I considered a fairly tasteless manner. Yes, I was scum and got lynched; it's the way of the game. And given that, the post I cited went far beyond what is reasonable, necessary, and polite in reaction to a scumlynch.

[Plum]

EBWOP: I apologize, Fate, the post I quoted appeared to have been written by RC. In which case . . . yeah. Hm. Sorry for the misattribution; the vitriol of my last post was undeserved by you.