Mini 1,115: Ozy and Millie Mafia (Game over!)

[Packbat]

RVQS!

1. Have you read Ozy and Millie? All the way through? When did you first read it? Last read it?

I started reading Ozy and Millie a fair while back - before 2006, I think - and I reread it from the beginning while the game was in the Mini Theme queue.

2. Buddhists vs. Stoics: who would win the imperturbability-off?

I actually don't know enough about either to say, but for your entertainment I give you Marcus Aurelius:

If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself but to your own estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.

3. Public or private school?

Homeschooled, actually.

Also:

VOTE: Empking

You're already in one of my games - I don't want the confusion.

[Packbat]

Vote: Pack

- Joking this early or RQS or OMGUS

I was kinda going somewhere with at least #1: familiarity with the comic could help a lot in evaluating flavor claims.

[Packbat]

Oh, wow, that

does

look like chesskid3's icon! werewolf555's has a transparent background, though.

[Packbat]

@Pack - Why ask questions 2/3?

Those questions are pretty random, I have to admit - (2) is related to your knowledge of Zen Buddhism, which is sort of related to the comic, and (3) is related to bullying, ditto.

[Packbat]

Packbat: You have 4 posts, more than anyone else in the thread (I think), yet nothing related to trying to find scum. I want your top suspicion plz kthx.

I want more information before selecting a top suspect. bristep123 hasn't even posted yet. The biggest thing I can see is Ghostlin's weird vote reason (RVS-wagons are pretty standard business), but Ghostlin might just be making an RVS vote. I think the best information will come when wagons start reaching L-2 and L-1 and we can see how people deal with the pressure.

[Packbat]

LlamaFluff, it is a fact about human psychology that they will change their minds less often than they think. If I go ascribing "top suspect" status right now, on the basis of essentially nothing, it will distract me from observing what is in front of me. Until I see something substantive, I think aiming my FoS is premature.

Mod: My area is in the midst of a snowstorm, and my house has no power. V/LA until further notice.

[Packbat]

Okay, I'm at school and have electricity temporarily, but the power is out again at home, so I'm pulling my vote until I have regular access.

Still V/LA.

UNVOTE: Empking

(Fortunately - or rather, unfortunately - it looks like a number of other people lack access too.)

@Pack - Why bother to RVS if you arent going to move it for most of the game?

I

will

when I have reason to - but if I weren't still V/LA, I'd leave the vote on Empking and support the new wagon. His play is downright

weird

, and I want a diagnosis on whether that's scummy-weird or just weird.

[Packbat]

Empking is at L-2.

(Power's back, but I've lost all trust that it will be consistent.)

[Packbat]

Mod: LynchMePls placed a vote on Empking at #17 which is not included in the votecount.

I'm concerned because y'all haven't sold me that Empking is scum - I want to know his reasoning before anyone 'accidentally' hammers.

(Also, power went back out while I was sleeping.)

[Packbat]

This has been a really bad time to lose power several times running - I'm trying to catch up now.

I still sense a distinct lack of effort on your part to actively look for any scum. Do you have any suspicions at this point?

I honestly don't like werewolf555's claim

or

the way Empking forced the claim - I feel as if werewolf55 is the scummier of the two, but that's nothing but gut: Empking's play was the more anti-town.

Frankly, Ghostlin's vote for LlamaFluff still bothers me more than either of tjose - Ghostlin, did you know that LlamaFluff was making an RVS wagon, and do you believe RVS-wagoning is scummy?

P-Edit: I see the LMP wagon forming - I want to read his remarks in context before responding.

[Packbat]

Mod: The power seems to be restored for good, now - unless it goes out again in the wintry-mix storms tomorrow or Tuesday I think I'm safely out of V/LA.

P-Edit: I see the LMP wagon forming - I want to read his remarks in context before responding.

...yeah, LynchMePls's play seems pretty weak. At the very least he ought to clarify why he objected to the blitz-wagon on werewolf555.

Vote: LynchMePls

(L-2)

P.S. I know werewolf doesn't seem to be the lynch for today, but I'm not sure I believe the claim. I know he's a newbie, but his play doesn't read as newbtown to me, particularly what with the unexplained vez -> Emp vote switch after Empking's wagon rolled past vezopiraka's. This isn't RVS any more - voting just to wagon ...

somewhat

iffy.

[Packbat]

LOL! I've been wagonned to L-1 in one page. Awesome. Check this wagon tomorrow for those who wanted to a counterwagon for Empking/WW.

Claim: Llewellyn VT

Please hammer. More claims is BAD. Good luck!

...why are you claiming? I mean, yes, we all want the full flavorclaim name, but

why?

werewolf555 was at least

asked

to claim - you don't even have that excuse!

[Packbat]

Every claim helps scum, Parama. If there's no hammer waiting, I want a freaking good reason before any claim, and nobody has stepped up expressing an intention to hammer. Therefore, I want to know why LynchMePls is claiming.

[Packbat]

Yes, if we lynch him today it won't matter, but I want his reasoning.

In fact:

UNVOTE: LynchMePls

I'll replace the vote if I'm not satisfied with his responses, but I don't want a hammer before he responds.

[Packbat]

LynchMePls, I will give you fourteen hours from the time of this post to respond to the outstanding questions directed toward you. If after that time I have not received a response I deem satisfactory, I will vote for your lynch.

[Packbat]

@ Packbat and Parama
Why the deception in your questions towards LynchMePls? You both claimed significant flavor knowledge.

I was supporting Parama's question on general principles: if you are asked a question, you should answer the question, and it is

technically

true that other characters in Ozy and Millie have the name "Llewellyn" (just not as their only name). I agree with Par that 'deception' is a bit of a strong wording, though.

Other things: Ghostlin's relieved my concerns quite a bit with #181. Actually, he's got a good point about Empking, too. So far in his ISO Emp has:

• RVSed.
  
• Chatted about irrelevancies.
  
• Voted werewolf555 for poorly-explained reasons.
  
• Demanded a claim early.
  
• Voted no-lynch and proposed follow-the-cop.
  
• Reversed himself to vote werewolf555 again.
  
• Chatted some more - with slightly more relevancy, but nearly as little content.
  
• Switched his vote to L-1 LynchMePls.
  
• Continued chatting.

At this point, I pretty well have to admit what I was thinking yesterday, which was that I

don't

really suspect LMP - yeah, he shouldn't have claimed, but like DLG said, the way he did it was pretty towny. And when you look at the wagon on him, both Empking's and werewolf555's votes look awfully opportunistic.

VOTE: Empking

It's worth waiting a night on werewolf555 on the off chance, but if he's alive tomorrow he'll be high on my list of suspects.

[Packbat]

VOTE COUNT

Antihero (1): Fishythefish
Empking (1): Packbat
Ghostlin (1): Antihero
Jerbs (1): Zyrconium
LynchMePls (4): Parama, vezokpiraka, Empking, werewolf555
werewolf555 (2): LynchMePls, Ghostlin
Zyrconium (1): LlamaFluff
Not voting (2): DLG, Jerbs

With

13

players alive, it takes

7

votes to lynch.

Mod: Jerbs voted for Zyrconium, not vice-versa. Also, I, too, am in an area where freezing rain is possible - if power is lost again, I will have limited access for a few days.

[Packbat]

Wait, never mind. Zyrconium

does

have a vote on Jerbs, but Jerbs voted Zyrconium as well.

[Packbat]

...OK, what happened? Did Mother Nature decide to hate everybody?

Yes.

[Packbat]

You've said Ghostlin was scum a few times now, LMP - could you elaborate on that a hair?

[Packbat]

Okay, hold up a second. I'm going to have to admit that I'm just a little bit lost here.

(a) For those of us who think LynchMePls is likely to be town: why should we lynch him?

(b) If LynchMePls thought he should be lynched, or thought he should be lynched if he claimed: why should he have claimed?

Am I missing something here with respect to theory, here? Given the choice, wouldn't it be better to lynch probable scum? Given the choice, wouldn't it be better not to claim?

Why?

[Packbat]

Woof! Hello, Vi!

Doctor?

We can't count on their being a doctor - and if there is one, it's pretty likely that there's a scum roleblocker, too. I've never heard people saying StrangerCoug was a bastard mod.

[Packbat]

What people do you hang around? XD

Join date October '10 - this is only my second non-newbie. Never mind.

[Packbat]

Better question:

LynchMePls, I will give you fourteen hours from the time of this post to respond to the outstanding questions directed toward you. If after that time I have not received a response I deem satisfactory, I will vote for your lynch.

What happened to this Pack?

Sheer bluff. Stupid bluff, too - LMP was asking to be lynched, so threatening to lynch wasn't effective. I still don't think his claiming was wise - my impression that the game was still relatively early - but the fashion of his claim struck me as pro-town, which suggested to me he

was

town. I just wanted him to keep talking.

For the record: that impression is being strained by the way he's trying to push the Ghostlin lynch and his blatantly inconsistent wagon-suspicion and overall-suspicion lists. He just isn't providing much to work with.

[Packbat]

Mod: When is the deadline?

[Packbat]

I highly approve of all zen skullduggery. Also, I have a feeling the deadline might be approaching - I will reread this evening and post my opinions on Zyrconium and others then.

[Packbat]

Please explain how LMP not responding to his lynch made us lay off him?

Every time I've seen someone's folded in the face of a quickwagon the way LynchMePls did, they've been town. Scum care way more about not being lynched than town does.

Reread notes:

UNVOTE: Empking

I have a theory about Emp's behavior - it makes much more sense than Empscum.

For positive voting, I think Zyrconium's behavior has been relatively strange - seems to post to (a) dodge prods and (b) dodge complaints about him not posting. He occasionally provides reasonable content (e.g. interrogating me about my LMP ultimatum), but he doesn't follow up on any of it.

VOTE: Zyrconium

Show us you care.

[Packbat]

To save all of you some trouble. I am a VT. Mililani mud. I hope I said that correctly.

vezokpiraka, you

are

allowed to

read

your role PM before you paraphrase it, you realize this.

[Packbat]

Oh, wait - that's Millie's

mom's

full name - except for the fact that it's "Mudd", not "mud". I hadn't remembered that.

Which raises the other question: why are you claiming at freaking

lynch minus

three?

[Packbat]

wolf - go

Seconded. werewolf555, what was your investigation result?

Cool. I disagree with almost everything Parama just said.

Scum is actually in - Zyrc/Fishy/Emp/Parma.

SK is almost for sure not a SK but a vig with those kills.

Does that work with the flavor? I can see why the LynchMePls kill might be more viggy than scummy (although if one of his top suspects were scum, that could reverse it), but who is there in the comic who would be (a) town and (b) kill with fire? Isolde?

[Packbat]

Who would be a SK and kill with fire for that matter?

...point. All I can think of are the dragons, and Llewellyn was town.

The kill makes next to no sense from a SK, and very little from a vig. Little >> none

Is it you and not Parama?

I'm not going to claim right now, obviously, but I don't want to rule out an SK either. If either SK or Mafia was near the top of the lists of people LynchMePls had as scum - which as indicated in the link includes me, obviously, but also Parama and Ghostlin, and possibly Empking - that kill might be self-defense of the obvious kind. Empking I still think is town, but Parama being the common thread between every wagon (including LMP's) I do think is worth looking at if it starts looking more like a serial killer than like a vigilante.

p-edit: ...that's a good point. Zyrconium, why?

[Packbat]

Vote werwolf

he's gonna mess us up later if we dont kill him now

I'll post more soon

...policy lynch? Why? Is werewolf555 that poor a player?

[Packbat]

I'm not seeing it - the cop's claim should be trusted as far as the cop is, simple as that. The claim doesn't mean much in a closed setup where counterclaiming isn't a useful option.

VOTE: Parama

Care to explain your reasoning, pard?

[Packbat]

My reasoning: you voted Jerbs for voting werewolf555. I understand Jerbs reasoning for voting werewolf555, and they seem pro-town to me, even if I don't think werewolf is the lynch for today, but understanding those reasons, I don't see

your

reasons for voting Jerbs. Am I mistaken? What is your case on Jerbs?

[Packbat]

Anti-town =/= scummy was

my

point. Jerbs provided the second vote on a player whom several others are disinclined to vote for, a claimed cop in a game with a miller, on the grounds that he will cause WIFOM at MyLo and LyLo - is that scummy, or is that just VI play?

[Packbat]

UNVOTE: Parama

However Jerbs is scum mostly because of a disturbing change in stances he doesn't bother to point out or explain, specifically his stance on werewolf(nonexistant post-claim), his stance on me(he was on me most of the last day) and the location of the leading-wagon at the time of his post voting wolfy(me).

To be specific(and because it's fun to say), Jerbs is scum because he didn't vote me.

Vote Jerbs

Oh, and I've have voted Ghost in my first post if y'all hadn't confused me into wanting answers first...

...

what? So if i

Vote: Zyrc

im no longer scum?

That's ...

incredibly

terrible. Why would you just fold under baiting like that?

VOTE: Jerbs L-2

[Packbat]

I have to agree with this. Should I place the L-1 and demand a claim?

Recent events seem to suggest that the correct answer is "yes".

[Packbat]

Uh, that was the hammer, fool.

[Packbat]

Uh, that was the hammer, fool.

You can still give me that case

His posting was really vacuous all game, and switching his vote from someone he was suspicious of to another player just because he was "supposed to" is really terrible.

Uh, that was the hammer, fool.

Why aren't you hailing Ghost as a hero for hammering scum?

Because he was supposed to be waiting for the claim - some kinds of behavior are explained by PRs. Also, it's possible the Zyr vote was motivated by something else, and now he won't have time to explain.

[Packbat]

So, I guess I still haven't broken my streak...

Thanks for a good game, all.