Mini 1,115: Ozy and Millie Mafia (Game over!)


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Post Post #24 (isolation #0) » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:23 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

1)Started about 30 mins before my /in, got to 2002 nowish.
2)Stoic, because I don't exactly know what that means in relation to a group of people, and I'm sure that fact itself makes them more like that other word you said, you get?
3)Public, but I get the feeling this might lead to different conclusions based on my location...
Packbat wrote:Oh, wow, that
does
look like chesskid3's icon! werewolf555's has a transparent background, though.
Which I do believe he added by HAND!(I'd been wondering why it was uglier than chess')
Antihero wrote:VOTE: werewolf555

Change your avatar back to what it was.
I wholeheartedly agree with these sentiments.

tl;dr VOTE: vezokpiraka, he probably doesn't know why, but it's funnier that way.
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Post Post #58 (isolation #1) » Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:13 am

Post by Zyrconium »

LlamaFluff wrote:@Zyrc - Who is you current top scumread?
I decided I should actually work this out(noone is doing a whole lot so far), and came up with a few things:

1) My unit of scummyness is too small, I should fix this.
2) Antihero's not being as serious as I'd like.
3) brist is fail, hopefully this will fix itself
4) Jerbs has had a whole 4 posts which actually say NOTHING... this seems a little too perfect not to be by design.

Since I ACTUALLY LIKE vezok's last post, I think I'll
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jerbs

Oh and, werewolf isn't exactly AT THE TOP of my scumlist today, but I don't mind the wagon because he's werewolf.

PEdit: LyMP, do you feel anything about anything so far?

PEdit2: How many games you played LyMP?
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Post Post #80 (isolation #2) » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:53 am

Post by Zyrconium »

Know what, I'm going to speak clearly for a change.
LynchMePls wrote:Why on earth is werewolf at L-1?
This come off a little stronger than I would have expected, was there a particular reason you disliked this fact, or is this just your way of talking?
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Post Post #81 (isolation #3) » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:53 am

Post by Zyrconium »

Know what, I'm going to speak clearly for a change.
LynchMePls wrote:Why on earth is werewolf at L-1?
This come off a little stronger than I would have expected, was there a particular reason you disliked this fact, or is this just your way of talking?
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Post Post #173 (isolation #4) » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:29 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

LlamaFluff wrote:Hey Param, LMP is town. Sorry to burst your bubble and all that, but he is. [...]

Vote Zyrconium


He is scum
Why? to both of these.
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Post Post #175 (isolation #5) » Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:16 am

Post by Zyrconium »

I've been reading along, but not had much to say, in particular, I've got relatively strong reads on Emp in both directions, which is kinda confusing me, so was grateful for the pressure there, and by the time I saw the LyMP wagon it already had enough momentum(for a wagon on scum), and has continued to until now.

Incase the rest of my response hasn't suggested the answer, the question was about both reads.
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Post Post #280 (isolation #6) » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:53 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

Since people are complaining again,I'll post what I've been writing today. Only got to Post #149(on the rereading part):

---

Wandering through the thread again, partly to answer questions I forgot existed.
DLG wrote:Question for the wagonners. Is this the kind of result you were looking for by building up the werewolf555 wagon so quick?
Solid emotional reaction, which was ALMOST there, he seemed a little frustrated and a little confused, and like he was trying to hide both, probably for pro-town reasons.
Empking wrote:Am I right in thinking the argument against me is that I

1. Forced a claim out of werewolf. (Which isn't true.)
2. Voted No Lynch. (Theory differences.)

vote: WW
- Claim and then going after the person to ask for a claim. Plus I think (I've yet to check this out) but if I recall correctly SC is of worst nightmare fame. Would there be a Cop in a game. Werewolf's utter change of heart strikes me as scum who was given a falseclaim.
Surprised this post didn't get more attention, especially since he was suggesting we play "Follow the Cop" up until this post...
Packbat wrote:Yes, if we lynch him today it won't matter, but I want his reasoning.

In fact:

UNVOTE: LynchMePls

I'll replace the vote if I'm not satisfied with his responses, but I don't want a hammer before he responds.
This one irks me too, I suspect because it had already been explained why it was perfectly logical for him to claim, and the fact that said explanation caused an escalation in Pack's alarm, rather than decreased it.

Let's add "I'll replace the vote
if I'm not satisfied with the responses
"(to why he claimed, not to any case on him) to the list of reasons this looks like an akward defense of LyMP...
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Post Post #281 (isolation #7) » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:02 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

Better question:
Packbat wrote:LynchMePls, I will give you fourteen hours from the time of this post to respond to the outstanding questions directed toward you. If after that time I have not received a response I deem satisfactory, I will vote for your lynch.
What happened to this Pack?
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Post Post #301 (isolation #8) » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:06 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

Zyrconium wrote:Only got to Post #149(on the rereading part):

Wandering through the thread again, partly to answer questions I forgot existed.
Those two lines were both meant to strongly imply(I actually thought I had said it), that I was rereading in more depth.

This is a response to Antihero's complaints mostly.(his last 2 posts)
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Post Post #328 (isolation #9) » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:23 am

Post by Zyrconium »

Continuing responses, actually found the question this idea started with.
LlamaFluff wrote:@Zyrc - So you think LMP is scum apparently and refuse to get on his wagon that would not be a hammer vote or even be a hammer vote of someone who has already claim because what? You are still voting Jerbs for not contributing (within the first 3 pages of the game).
I couldn't be bothered counting the number of votes that had went up and down since the last votecount(a fair few I think), it was a busy day and all. Now I'm not voting him because I'm in the process of thinking.
LlamaFluff wrote: Then Jerbs is posting a little but not contributing (for the record Jerbs has RVS vote and response to others, saying he is busy, and asking a question to brist/saying he likes wagons). This is far better then the posts from quite a few others, including Zyrc (one RVS post).
Jerbs:
1)RVS vote
2)Pointless fluff
3)Echo of a question 3 posts earlier+says he likes wagons.

Again, this is no longer an accurate summary of Jerbs, but it's my interpretation of the posts you're referring to.

---

30 mins later, after reading 211 and LyMPs two last posts before that:

Ok, maybe my thinking isn't gonna be very deep.... those are damning. (on rethink, I only mean 210 and 211, the first one is empty, but "made up for" by the rest of them)

-----
Parama wrote:Zyrc, do you still think Jerbs is scum? You haven't said anything on the matter since your original vote on him, and even that was unexplained in the first place.
I should have considered busy as a defense for him, which makes my points less relevant, he has continued to wander up in scummyness(reconsidered this line like 30 mins later too, and it's still accurate, but the change is barely noticeable, I'd still like to see more from him though), but not nearly as fast as some people.... I should have a list at the bottom of this post.

----

REAL POST STARTS HERE!


Since I think I'm not at least half way to a lynch, I'll stop here(#287).... Have read the later game, but not in as much depth of course....

Unfortunately, my reads aren't much different from the rest of town, specifically(factoring in vezok's latest post because otherwise it'll get tricky and I'll get questions about it):

1)LMP.
2)vezok(seriously still second, he was like 5th until that post)
large gap
3)Ghostlin
4)Empking(I really wanted this one to be higher, but no evidence to support it)
5)werewolf
6)Jerbs(I reckon this might drop in the next 30 posts I consider, I also reckon I may have been talking BS about the case to start with.... I don't really agree with what I said back there...)

I'm quite confident LMP is scum, I'm equally as confident that scum or not, vezok will end up helping the mafia(he was doing better than I expected up to that point though), this means I'm happy with either of these lynches, happier with LMP though.

vote LMP


And before accusing me of having nothing to back these up, try asking....

P.S. Pack, I didn't follow up on you cause I liked your response...
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Post Post #329 (isolation #10) » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:24 am

Post by Zyrconium »

EBWOP: Also, I AM saying I think vezok is scum, just that there's more chance of him being town than LMP, and in these chances I think he'll still help scum
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Post Post #330 (isolation #11) » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:41 am

Post by Zyrconium »

EBWOP2: Also meant to add that the read on werewolf is after concessions have been made for his cop claim, otherwise he'd have been tieing Ghost.
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Post Post #331 (isolation #12) » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:25 am

Post by Zyrconium »

Jerbs wrote:It seems that every time Z posts, its when someone calls him out
I don't get the point of this sentence.
DLG wrote:Well, if your take on the buddying was significant enough to overcome your impressions of Zyrconium, fair enough. Otherwise, it still rings strange to be willing to vote with someone you find scummy.
I'm of the impression that voting for who you think it mafia is pretty much the only consideration for a vote, scum voting someone doesn't make them not mafia. DISCLAMER: This argument made from a purely philosophical standpoint, with no specific bearing on this game.
Parama wrote:Emp is either clever town or stupid scum, and I don't think he's stupid.
Or smart scum, I dislike posts which suggest scum can't do scummy things for intelligent reasons...
Fishythefish wrote:
vezok

...and the thing DLG was attacking him for (waffling about LMP) isn't bad either.
His defense was pathetic and actually added to the case on him, but I don't think the original case(said waffling) was especially accurate, vezok was being slightly inarticulate was all.

Addendum to my thoughts on vezok:
It does kinda look like he's pushing at least 3 lynches just now, and has a 4th planned for tommorow.... this is more confusing than scuimmy, I think...
werewolf555 wrote:Please explain how LMP not responding to his lynch made us lay off him?
It's posts like this that made me not really get the wolf wagon post-claim.

@All: I've still not seen anyone comment on the fact that Empking went from thinking werewolf was scum, to utterly believing he was cop, back to thinking he was scum in like 20 posts....
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Post Post #378 (isolation #13) » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:21 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

LlamaFluff wrote:@Zyrc - Why is vezok scum?
Is this question still relevant?
Parama wrote:SK:
Ghostlin
This makes sense.
LlamaFluff wrote:SK is almost for sure not a SK but a vig with those kills.
This however makes more sense.
Parama wrote:3 of these 4 are our mafia:
Llama
Packbat
Fishy
Jerbs
This makes slightly less sense.
LlamaFluff wrote:Scum is actually in - Zyrc/Fishy/Emp/Parma.
This one is actually disturbing though, I'll start with: "Why fishy?"
Ghostlin wrote:EBWOP: If Werewolf even has a investigation, that is.
No, I'd like to hear who he investigated even if he got blocked.(I can't see anyway it'd hurt at least)
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Post Post #385 (isolation #14) » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:19 am

Post by Zyrconium »

Parama wrote:
This one is actually disturbing though, I'll start with: "Why fishy?"
Any reason you didn't ask me the same thing?
As I said, Llama's list concerns me, what with it containing me(who I'll ignore for now), a relatively null, slightly town read who is null enough I can't see Llama building a solid case on him(i.e. I would expect more, easy target Emp, and Parama, who he hadn't said anything alignment-wise about until that post...

I also expected the cases to overlap, obviously this didn't happen, so I'd be happy to hear your explanation too, same with the Packbat case, and I totally wouldn't complain about hearing the other two either....
Fishythefish wrote:@Llama: your scumlist was Zryc/Fishy/Emp/Para. But then you said
"Its going to be Zyrc/Fishy/Pack? Is Ghost a VI or scum? The answer to these or more as the game progresses. I think the answers are "two of the three" and "maybe even both"."
Where did Pack suddenly come from?
Better question is where did Ghost come from, your post suggest you'd give him at least even odds of being a scumVI, but you don't seem to think he's scum(assuming "scum is in" means "only X can be scum", like it does in English)
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Post Post #410 (isolation #15) » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:37 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

LlamaFluff wrote:At least... LEAST one of the wolf voters are scum. The only way we lynch wolf today is if someone else says "I was roleblocked last night". We have a miller, we have an uncountered cop claim, we are not lynching the damn cop.
I.... this is site meta rather than scumhunting and it annoys me. I can't really dispute the logic, other than that I'm desperately hoping the mod expected this and decided to screw you over...

I'll cover Ghost's post above this later, developments already happened while I was trying to read it.

Summary would be that I don't really think even treating wolf as a townie there's a great deal of reason to vote him.

However Jerbs is scum mostly because of a disturbing change in stances he doesn't bother to point out or explain, specifically his stance on werewolf(nonexistant post-claim), his stance on me(he was on me most of the last day) and the location of the leading-wagon at the time of his post voting wolfy(me).

To be specific(and because it's fun to say), Jerbs is scum because he didn't vote me.

Vote Jerbs


Oh, and I've have voted Ghost in my first post if y'all hadn't confused me into wanting answers first...

P-Edit: damn thought I was agreeing with Parama today...

P-Edit: I think that's like 4 posts while I was writing total... :'(
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Post Post #424 (isolation #16) » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:25 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

27 hours Emp, start to the last vote on the Jerbs wagon(4 votes), sure that's leisurely?
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Post Post #428 (isolation #17) » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:42 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

^^^This post is fairly scary too, but Jerbs is still winning your race to get lynched Ghosty...

P.S. I suggest you vote for someone you think is scum...
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Post Post #430 (isolation #18) » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:58 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

I think that last sentance needs more nouns... Really not sure what you meant to say.
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Post Post #483 (isolation #19) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:17 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

Packbat wrote:
werewolf555 wrote:Please explain how LMP not responding to his lynch made us lay off him?
Every time I've seen someone's folded in the face of a quickwagon the way LynchMePls did, they've been town. Scum care way more about not being lynched than town does.

Reread notes:

UNVOTE: Empking

I have a theory about Emp's behavior - it makes much more sense than Empscum.

For positive voting, I think Zyrconium's behavior has been relatively strange - seems to post to (a) dodge prods and (b) dodge complaints about him not posting. He occasionally provides reasonable content (e.g. interrogating me about my LMP ultimatum), but he doesn't follow up on any of it.

VOTE: Zyrconium

Show us you care.
This post is why I had PB as a town-read(even then, not too strong of one in the numbers, but I really didn't expect him to flip scum)

I have more to say, mostly on AH, but I'm too tired to say that now.
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Post Post #504 (isolation #20) » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:46 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

Millie Mudd, Vig.

Rebel, irked by persistent bullies and fire-loving, may cause death(I may be going overboard with the paraphrasing, I'm not sure how different it has to be not to be like quoting, intentions are the same, but almost none of the words.)

LyMP died mostly cause he'd already got most of a lynch on his ass, and because I'd be sorely tempted to have killed him the next day(with the lynching) had he not died.

Pack died mostly so I could have a better idea of Parama's alignment... Parama making me a little nervous about my Ghost-scum read(and there wasn't a close second on my scumlist, actually Emp was second, but he hadn't moved up or down since mid day 1.) with his absolute certainty otherwise and my scumhunting so far being seemingly subpar.... I was somewhat shocked and amazed Pack was actually scum...

P.S. I needed a better read on Parama cause he seemed town all through day 1, and in day 2 all he did was say things I disagreed with.... was confusing.

Second choice was less obvious, and took me most of the night to choose as a result...

I think that's full disclosure....
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Post Post #527 (isolation #21) » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:52 am

Post by Zyrconium »

So Parama thinks this is mountainous with SK and miller?
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Post Post #529 (isolation #22) » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:36 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

Ok, I'll ask the questions that have been irking me for just a little bit....

@Llama: What be thar case on Parama? (damn, ninja at least somewhat answered this in the while I'm typing)
@Parama: If you can remember, why was Llama scum at the start of Day 2?

@Ghost, are those really the only two counts that matter?
LyMP wrote:LynchMePls (6): Parama, LlamaFluff, Antihero,
vezokpiraka
,
Empking
,
Packbat


That was my wagon when I claimed. Of the whole wagon, I'd order that wagon from town to scum:
VOTE COUNT
Antihero (1): bristep123
Empking (5):
LynchMePls
, Parama,
DLG
, LlamaFluff, werewolf555
Jerbs (1): Zyrconium
LlamaFluff (1): Ghostlin
werewolf555 (3): Antihero,
Jerbs
,
Empking
These would seem relevant for any sort of analysis to border upon scientifically valid(top one isn't actually from a VC, because there wasn't any quite close enough to that time)...
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Post Post #537 (isolation #23) » Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:07 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

Antihero wrote:
Ghostlin wrote:
Antihero wrote:...not to mention the flavor for fishy's claim is the least believeable out of everyone's. Mr. who? That music teacher? He shows up for a couple strips once in a blue moon.
This is outguessing the mod. However, for the sake of argument, does my claim appear more often than his?
Hey, if we're going to be using BS buddytells, I think flavor is fair game.
"My logic makes sense because his doesn't!"... good to know.

Now I'm off to go look at a Packbat case and see if Parama deserves the town cred I think he does....
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Post Post #586 (isolation #24) » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:56 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

Llama... I had logic behind it, but it'll take a sec to work out what logic :S kinda taken aback by us not being dead.... (btw, totally obvious from flavourtext, so there's not way I'd lie about this even if I was evil)
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Post Post #590 (isolation #25) » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:22 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

Currently my brain thinks that werewolf being given a cop fake-claim backed up by a miller would make 2 scum vs vig + 10 town a relatively balanced setup...

(RB + scum vs cop + vig + 9 town is what we've got if he ain't lying about anything(or an SK that never killed anyone, which could also be WW more than anyone else))

I had Parama and Ghost both as confirmed town(and will probs stick with that)

I thought Llama's attacks on Parama at the start of day 2 and much of the rest looked like scum trying to buddy up with a townie, and I really didn't like him hammering 10 mins after his #2 suspect voted the same guy.

P-Edit: and now Ghost makes it painfully clear there's no point to lynching WW....

Not compulsive.

And there's only one thing making me nervous about your alignment.... Why do you trust me?
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Post Post #593 (isolation #26) » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:14 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

66% chance of victory without scumhunting, if I(or Parama, or like half of the town) have any skill at all in finding scum, closer to 85%, I like those odds... is the flaw in the plan something we can do anything to help?
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Post Post #596 (isolation #27) » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:14 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

And if I don't, it's the same situation but where I got to choose... :p I'll happily follow your plan, but I wanna see what the rest of town(I use this word to represent all of the players, like all the time) has to say first
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Post Post #600 (isolation #28) » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:13 am

Post by Zyrconium »

^ Yup
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Post Post #607 (isolation #29) » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:55 am

Post by Zyrconium »

Vote Antihero
seems like it's a logical first step here...

AH: any reason other than the claim(which actually fits rather well with a scum-fake, given shiny logic) that WW is town?
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Post Post #620 (isolation #30) » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:02 pm

Post by Zyrconium »

Antihero wrote:
Ghostlin wrote:
Antihero wrote:Oh crap.

I think I just realized why Ozy's not in this setup......

crap
Care to share?
Well, it's kind of a half-baked theory, but if I'm right, Z is the SK (doesn't matter anyway, I'm happy to crown him over scum).

Since the town is full of people Millie isn't a huge fan of anyway (fishy's guy, Ms. Sorkowitz, Principal Bovine), she now makes sense as an SK (explains the absense of ozy; she and ozy being on different teams would make the flavor ridiculous).
If I were to pick one character who this doesn't fit with it'd be Timulty....
Also, both of the parents I have, one of who happens to be an awesome pirate....

I don't think the town is stoked any further towards me being SK than just that Ozy is missing.

I do agree that not killing me was a strange move, simplest solution I can think of is that Parama is a scary man... but something unkillable does work, I really doubt WW came up with the cop claim by himself though, so it's either a fakeclaim, which makes him being unkillable(or BP, currently no difference) somewhat less likely, although I'm not sure it makes it
un
likely....

I doubt either you or WW were especially confident in not getting shot last night because our two dead people were strong advocators of each of your deaths, which again makes me curious as to me not being dead...

Which makes it fairly clear that we're back to deciding which of AH and WW are the scummier....
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Post Post #626 (isolation #31) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:53 am

Post by Zyrconium »

werewolf, is your suggestion for us to lynch both AH and Ghost today then.... cause that'd seem like the only better solution to the problem than just lynching AH from your theoretically town perspective....
werewolf555 wrote:Ghostlin I think is town, and if he wasn't pro-sk, I wouldn't suspect him at all.
I'll probably try to investigate him tonight.
werewolf555 wrote:As for why he seems town, he has been doing plenty of scum hunting.
These two cover werewolf's perspective on which of AH or Ghost is scummier, so we don't need to wait for his response to that question, which means that werewolf really wants to hammer AH because if ww's scum-senses are right that would be a town victory....

AH should also hammer AH, but mostly because it'll help speed things up....
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Post Post #627 (isolation #32) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:57 am

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P.S. the reason ww's logic is bull is because if Ghost is scum, he's an RB and so I can't shoot him, and he's definitely not today's lynch, because 100% of town think he's not scum....
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Post Post #648 (isolation #33) » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:07 am

Post by Zyrconium »

vezokpiraka wrote:Yay I won.

Sorry DLG. I was half right at you being scum.
NO!

But yeah, if it was a 10:2 game scum may well have won...

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