1119: The Might of Mordor: Game Over

[Katy]

VOTE: Katy Who are you, and why didn't you confirm in-thread like everyone else?

imbue: esuriospiritus

I couldn't find the thread because I am mentally challenged
But Andrius took my request for linkage as a sign of life and let me be confirmed by that because he is a super cool guy.

Voting for Edge (or Gandalf, for that matter) is so last year.

VOTE: Mariyta for taking the easy way out right at the start.

[Katy]

My vote is still on Katy because her reason for voting Mariyta is entirely too nebulous for my tastes and also because she's one of like 2 people here I've never played with or seen in action before and have thus prioritized getting a read on.

That's because it is a random vote? I mean, I know it's not as strong as voting for someone because I hate them or because "um .... duh" but you know, it's still the first day.

I'm ready to get down to business now though because someone has been rubbing me the wrong way.

Ok, I'm changing my mind about Gandalf. His arguments are becoming too pointed to be dumbtown and are more likely to be coming from scum.

1) This kinda offbeat theory that scum don't have super powers / cannot utilize the ring. This possibility did not occur to me AT ALL. Maybe it did for other people, in which case I'm wrong, but it smells like insider info.

2) The whole "ring makes scum action immune, so nobody targets ringbearer." Same as above. It is just not something that occurred to me AS TOWN.

3) Why the hell would we give the ring to a random NULL read and not a strong TOWN read? Or someone claiming to have a good power?

None of what Gandalf has been saying is offbeat. It's very speculative, sure, but I can understand where it comes from. I don't think that first speculation about scum not being able to use the ring is very solid but I see why he thought of that. I don't happen to think it's a useful road to go down but I don't see why scum would reveal that if it were truly inside info and not just speculation.

I think number two is a reasonable assumption and it's suspect that you say it would never have occurred to you as town - given that twice you've mentioned that you thought the ring holder would be an obvious NK target. The way to counter that is of course to make them not killable while they hold it. Not only does it make sense flavorwise, but game mechanic-wise and think it's pretty odd that you state you would not have considered that given that you also stated you thought the ringholder would be an obvious target.

Also in reviewing your posting, I don't necessarily take issue with your first post for trying to direct town, I take issue with it as an essentially meaningless post. I always find it suspicious when people post as if they are giving game insight, and then you really look at it and all they are doing is stating the obvious. Which is basically what your first post was.

Let's make this for real.

UNVOTE: Mariyta
VOTE: AlmasterGM

[Katy]

So let me get this straight - you are voting for me because my first post of the game didn't say anything relevant?

Hellllooooooooo scum in need of an excuse to get on the wagon.

There was more stuff in that post, actually. And it was not because it didn't say anything relevant, but because it was trying to look like it said something relevant.

That sure doesn't sound like someone voting randomly to me, not considering it was right after Mariyta's comment on AGM directing the town. It sounded like a serious vote with no elaboration on the reasoning behind it, and still does to me. Also, her vote on AGM smells like someone desperate to join another wagon after receiving criticism for an earlier vote.

Just because it's not OMGLOLSORANDOM doesn't mean it's meant to be a "serious" vote. I basically picked someone at random and made a joking vote based on her vote for Edge who seems like the obvious choice out of this player list to vote for. It's not because I actually thought that was superscummy, it was just my excuse for the vote, because I like to be a little more interesting than just saying "because your avatar's dumb" or whatever nonsense excuse. I find doing it the way I do generates more interesting responses.

And I am not desperate to join a wagon, I prefer NOT to join wagons right near the beginning--I like to go my own way and think for myself, I do not like to play like a sheep. But if my own thinking happens to coincide with someone else's I'm not going to change my mind just because of that.

In regards to Plum - what would be the scum motivation for her to lie about knowing Fate was part of Edge? I'm not seeing it.

[Katy]

You don't like it when people point out how wrong you are, do you.

Heh. You think Fate pays any attention when people point out how wrong he is?

Fate has his ups and downs, but if people would just not get so worked up about it, it all works out fine. Don't be distracted by the yelling.

I like VV so far and Quadz both are making complete sense to me and being reasonable which is something that is sorely needed. I wish Gandalf had taken his vaccination for caps lock syndrome because it seems to be contagious and it really has an effect on me where I want to skip reading those posts. However, his play seems pretty confident to me and I'm getting a real town vibe from him. I always have to take a wait and see approach with Fate, and this game is no different. It should come clear to me later what the flavor of his insanity is this time.

As to Plum, I've gone back and reread the events in question and I see the case now. For people who don't get it, let me explain it English rather than Yellish:

Plum opened by voting to imbue Edge for being "Townie as hell" in confirmation stage. Edge immediately grew shifty eyed at this because he didn't do anything particularly townie in confirmation. Then she claimed that she didn't actually know Edge=Fate when she said that. This looks suspect because well, after reading even one of his posts, how could you not know? And it also makes her first statement seem more confusing because if she didn't know it was Fate, then on what basis was she determining that his posts looked like town posts?

This is sad, because I like Plum, I don't want to believe she could betray me like this. :'( One thing I'd like to see addressed by Plum is why she stated Edge's confirmation looked townie. What made you think it was so town, Plum? Especially given that you claim not to have known who the player was at that point?

Also, I might as well join in on this imbuing party.

Imbue: Quadz

[Katy]

I am willing to change my imbue vote to Sevei if that's how the wind blows, but I don't have a problem with it on Quadz either. Those would be my two picks out of the available choices for now.

I'm feeling reluctant to change my vote. The case on Plum rests on one thing that happened at the beginning of the game, and while I see it, I don't see anything else from her that bolsters that case. AGM on the other hand, has consistently done things I find suspect.

IN addition to the things I already said, add to it his stubborn insistence against the case on Plum, until it was spelled out more than one time, when it was actually not that hard to figure out if you actually were willing to read the thread and figure it out, and as others have noted his L-1 vote along with a self-imbue vote, which looks like an attempt to rush the day end before we get someone imbued.

I'm pretty happy to leave my vote where it is.

[Katy]

Ugggh. So apparently there is some guy called the Shadow Lord which I was very surprised to learn 'cause that wasn't in the books at all.

UNVOTE: AlmasterGM

Imbue: AlmasterGM

We should probably give Almaster some targets if we're gonna test this though because that would be just hilarious if he "neighborized" his scumbuddies and wow now he is confirmed!

Probably Edge and Spy since they love each other so much.

I've gotta look at stuff again before I revote.

[Katy]

KATY is just going with the flow way way too much; I can't remember much if anything of what she's done. Encouraging testing is not thinking about the potential major pitfalls if AGM is lying, not for real. If you're worried that AGM might be scum you'd try to think through the ramifications of giving him the Ring in the first place. And considering Katy had been voting AGM just before . . . NO. Dammit we've let Katy drift as she pleases getting no heat WAY TOO LONG.

I believe his claim. I don't really like his activity in this day all that much, but that doesn't mean I have to automatically disbelieve his claim. I think the percentage chance that he is lying to conceal some amazing superpower that lets scum get an enormous advantage are slim. I also think if he were lying he would have chosen something else to claim, something more intrinsically powerful and less confirmable.

I also think if we are going to play as paranoid as many people are getting right now, then we are going to paralyze ourselves out of doing anything. I think it's worth testing his claim if we can get a mod-confirmed townie, especially one like AGM who might have to become an NK target over more desirable targets for scum, if he becomes a confirmed townie. For me, the potential benefits make this a worthwhile risk. Scum WANT you to second guess every plan that may help town. They want town to be afraid to take risks. They want town to be scared that they have massive superpowers that can destroy us. But we are the frakking dark forces of Sauron and we have the RING. We do not cower like babies before cutesy little half-men and simpering elves.

Anyway, if I was scum, I could have just helped get you lynched today instead of sticking on AGM until the bitter end.

[Katy]

So far, I'm getting a LOT of pings of Town Mari but that is mostly because of my previous experience with her

not because of what she's actually doing in this game.

. Last game she's acted like this and we very nearly lynched her multiple times. It was her early vote on the scumGF lynch D1 that ultimately absolved her. But I'm getting some 'waitaminite I've seen this shit before' paranoia.

This is true. This has been exactly my take on Mari so far.

Don't imbue me right now, it won't help town. Only reason to imbue me would be to keep scum from getting imbued, and right now that's not a risk.

It seems like what we need to do is decide definitively if we are going to imbue AGM. If we can't get a consensus to imbue him then we are just running in circles and we should get down to business on who to imbue instead, and if we're not going to imbue AGM then my reason to keep him alive goes away. If we are going to imbue him, I need to figure out who is scum and needs to die.

[Katy]

This game is suddenly very lulzy.

Something tells me the imbue thing isn't gonna work so

Unimbue: AGM

Imbue: Quadz

Quadz is like my soulmate, I can't not imbue him.

VOTE: Hohum

Let's put some fire under your butt to save yourself. I previously agreed with VV about Mariyta's play being similar to before, but actually, she didn't seem to get nearly as bothered by the opposition before, despite the fact that people found her scummy for most of the game. Her behavior most recently though seems a lot more frustrated and emotional. I have zero experience with Mariyta-scum so if anyone does they can educate me, but in the last game I was mixed about Mariyta the whole way through because I could never shake my strong gut feeling that she was town based on her posting style despite other arguments for her being scum. Her extremely emotional reactions in her more recent posts do not give me the same gut feeling at all, and I have started to think that it is scum-Mari getting frustrated that her arguments aren't working. She didn't seem to mind nearly as much in the previous game, that I can recall.

Since there's a replacement I would normally wait to vote, but heck it is late in the day, I think a little motivation won't hurt our new player to start working it right from the start.

[Katy]

On day 1 mind you. It's quite unreasonable to expect a replacement to defend what has been decidedly emotional play. I simply can't do that and I'm not going to go on the offensive while I'm being wagoned.

tl;dr lynch me or fuck off.

I don't expect you to defend Mariyta's play - how can you? You are not her. But that player slot is where I want to place my vote and you don't get off the hook just because you replaced. But I can pressure you to post and give reads on the game by putting my vote there. If I left my vote off just because of the replacement then there's no pressure for you to do anything but fly under the radar and let the pressure shift to someone else.

There's plenty of other stuff you can talk about besides defending Mariyta, like who you think is scum. So far I'm not terribly swayed by you OMGUSing anyone who voted for you.

Since there's a replacement I would normally wait to vote

Lame excuse to deviate from an established meta.

Well, luckily I don't play mafia to get your approval on my amazing explanations of my behavior. It's just a statement of the truth, regardless of whether you think it's a good reason or not. In another circumstance I might give you some time to be acclimated, but unfortunately for you I am getting tired of this day with all the Imbue or don't Imbue back-and-forth, and I am ready to move definitively in a direction. That means I'm not willing, as I normally might be, to give you some time and see what happens. I would be voting for Mariyta if she hadn't quit and at this point in the day and my feelings about the day, I'm not feeling inclined to choose a second tier vote instead.

If we are not going to imbue AGM, then he should at least use his claimed power to send a note to someone deemed townie over the night, like Edge or Quadz. If he really has that power, I have a hard time seeing it as a scum power.

[Katy]

What the hell. I get dragged away for a weekend to watch football against my will and when I finally escape and return it's into the middle of a long discourse of dancing with guys of all things.

I'm confused on my thought process because I think that no matter what, Mariyta and Plum are not scum together. One of them may be scum, but I don't see how both could be on a scum team together. Which means that if Plum is scum, hohum is not and that messes with my world view, man. But maybe it's that I can't read Plum very well, I'm just not getting a super scummy vibe off of her.

The only thing I am questioning and need to work out is whether Mariyta's response was more dramatic this game because she was scum, or whether Plum knew how to push her buttons having seen what scumbait she was in the previous game. If I could decide that, I could be a lot more decisive.

I owe you a larger post but I've at least hinted about my intentions at this point. Implying that my posts are contentless is a scum-stretch.

But your posts are contentless. Saying you are going to provide content later isn't "content." I suppose you've spent the barest minimum of time trying to justify voting for me, but it all comes down to you are voting for me because I voted for you despite the fact that you are a replacement and you think that's not fair or something. But the fact is, Mariyta was already suspect and nothing you have done since you replaced makes your slot look like town, and your stalling on actually contributing anything, combined with your anger that someone would DARE to vote you doesn't make you look all that great to me. Seems more like you wanted to come in and slide for the rest of the day on your replacement status and I'm not letting you.

FINE.
Let's do things your way ya big meanie.
This way when she flips town YOU can be responsible for looking like an idiot.

This is a bit weird, though. Why would you do this if you are so convinced she is town? Especially throwing on that "It's YOUR responsibility if this goes wrong" to Edge. I think this may be the break hohum was waiting for because I don't understand any pro-town logic behind a post like this. If you are convinced Plum is town and will flip town, then don't vote for her. And voting for someone just to make another player look bad if they turn out to be wrong is pretty suspect.

UNVOTE: hohum
VOTE: singersigner