Mini 1,115: Ozy and Millie Mafia (Game over!)

[LlamaFluff]

*squeeee* it started!

This is seriously one of my favorite comics of all time, I actually own the books. Dibs on flavor expert, challenge any of ya to know more about this theme then I do.

That said im not going to answer any of the other RQS questions since they are entirely irrelevant to the game and just serve as something that can make noise.

@Pack - Why ask questions 2/3?

Vote wearwolf

because wagon. Whats with all the pokemon avatars suddenly too? This some new in thing?

[LlamaFluff]

Wait, what? Is this a weird confession that you want to BE on a bandwagon? That's not scummy...wait. it is.

Wait... its not. Too many newbies miss how much random wagons to kick off the game help. Why is it scummy?

I actually think DGL is probably town for his reaction to what I said.

I want more information before selecting a top suspect. bristep123 hasn't even posted yet. The biggest thing I can see is Ghostlin's weird vote reason (RVS-wagons are pretty standard business), but Ghostlin might just be making an RVS vote. I think the best information will come when wagons start reaching L-2 and L-1 and we can see how people deal with the pressure.

Even if he hasnt posted you cant have everyone as "perfectly null" in reads. If he is flaking are we really going to need to wait almost a week for you to give us a suspicion? If wagons are good, join the biggest ones?

@Parama - Now that there are 13 players it allows more policy lynches. Its the best thing about the new cap.

[LlamaFluff]

I didn't direct anything at you so I don't know what you're responding to, unless you're responding to the part about the werewolf self-destruct that's inevitable.

Yeah that part, wasnt sure what you were getting at too much with your original statement.

[LlamaFluff]

This is where normally I would bandwagon again for the sake of bandwagon... but im already where my vote needs to be there.

@Pack - Why bother to RVS if you arent going to move it for most of the game?
@Parama - Why havent you gone crazy trying to control the game yet? You scum?
@Zyrc/vezok - Who is you current top scumread?
@bristep - Have you read the game?
@wolf/LMP - Why not vote?

[LlamaFluff]

@ LlamaFluff

But my role is a cop, and I am Dr. I Wahnsinnig

You're the self-proclaimed flavor expert. Does the claim make sense from a flavor standpoint?

Pretty good sense. If you are looking for a cop she is one of two, mayyyybe three you could use.

She is a psychologist at the school who a protagonist, but not a main character (would be in bottom half of top 10 if I started listing). Not really in a whole lot of strips, but she is a good character for pushing the plot along and resolving storylines. Lots of conflict with the accidental antagonist character

unvote

Follow the cop falls apart in the new 13 player setups so thats not something we are going to try. Have class now so will try and get some more thoughts up after that.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Emp

Randon wagon is not supposed to result in claim, much less an ask for a claim. Why did you think wolf was scum?

[LlamaFluff]

@Emp - Why was wolf scummy before the claim?

[LlamaFluff]

1. Gut
2. His attitude and cockiness implied his having more information than most players.

You wanted a claim based on gut? Also both your second points are indicative of newbie town PRs, I remember having to get someone off the block for acting like that in the last PYP

[LlamaFluff]

1. Gut
2. His attitude and cockiness implied his having more information than most players.

You wanted a claim based on gut?

I wanted a claim to fight against stalling.

So you wanted a random player to claim so we wouldnt stall? What if he had claimed VT? Other power?

Also both your second points are indicative of newbie town PRs, I remember having to get someone off the block for acting like that in the last PYP

WW isn't a newbie.

I think four months experience and his attitude justifies a newbie read.

Also Zyrconium is probably scum in this situation. He had an amazing "ignore the elephant in the room" post when wolf got to L-1 post.

[LlamaFluff]

In what situation?

The situation of playing mafia in this gamestate.

[LlamaFluff]

well you are also probably scum is the issue. Have been debating voting him though.

[LlamaFluff]

Nah not scum, just wondering if Emp is scum or playing like retro Emp-town right now.

I still think Zyrc is probably scum given his early posts that are just ignoring the fact wolf got to L-1 really early, its one of the things that you touch on with LMP too. Im going to shift here and join up with your LMP wagon, mostly due to his movement around the wolf wagon (which I think if your only very solid point). The "hey look a wagon, hey look a possible scum claim" is basically the only talk of the biggest point in the game we have.

Unvote
Vote LMP

[LlamaFluff]

This game is going to fast to be a good thing. Its just going to be lots of noise that scum love to take advantage of

unvote

Even if we are going to lynch LMP this game needs to slow enough for everyone to get caught up and give solid opinions. Parama knows this. Just quicklynching is not going to accomplish anything.

[LlamaFluff]

For starters, there are multiple characters with the last name Llewellyn
For seconds, lolscumgivingup

Actually llewellyn is the characters entire name, and is one of the biggest characters in the strip

[LlamaFluff]

Hey Param, LMP is town. Sorry to burst your bubble and all that, but he is. I would rather vote wolf.

Vote Zyrconium

He is scum

[LlamaFluff]

Hey Param, LMP is town. Sorry to burst your bubble and all that, but he is. [...]

Vote Zyrconium

He is scum

Why? to both of these.

Holy convienient timing of first post in three days batman!

Are you only challenging my read of you or the read of LMP too? The case on you comes after hell monday, and quite possible hell tuesday. Stupid classes.

[LlamaFluff]

There's no reason for the LMP to break down just because of a claim.
In fact, this is exactly what I'd expect to happen if we wagoned scum.

I would expect the exact opposite. "Hey im a VT, you should lynch me, bye now" is the SCUM response to a quick wagon? Seriously? I would expect scum to do some sort of response, defense, and not claim flat out like that, instead try to get people off the wagon.

@Zyrc - So you think LMP is scum apparently and refuse to get on his wagon that would not be a hammer vote or even be a hammer vote of someone who has already claim because what? You are still voting Jerbs for not contributing (within the first 3 pages of the game).

Anyways, Zyrconium is the lynch here.

1) My unit of scummyness is too small, I should fix this.
2) Antihero's not being as serious as I'd like.
3) brist is fail, hopefully this will fix itself
4) Jerbs has had a whole 4 posts which actually say NOTHING... this seems a little too perfect not to be by design.

Since I ACTUALLY LIKE vezok's last post, I think I'll

This is his first "scumhunting" post of the game. He says that he doesnt have a lot of tells to work off of, early cop out. Antihero is not being serious, alrhough he specifically avoids calling this scummy, just more of an observation. Brist is not being useful, again not calling anyone scummy, just an observation. Then Jerbs is posting a little but not contributing (for the record Jerbs has RVS vote and response to others, saying he is busy, and asking a question to brist/saying he likes wagons). This is far better then the posts from quite a few others, including Zyrc (one RVS post).

What also bugs me is that Zycronium is acting like his vote on vezok was serious, when its obvious that his vote there was a RVS one.

Now, he continues to just give a nod to the L-1 wolf wagon, just saying that its "acceptable" becuase of who it is on. He doesnt say that he supports a claim, a lynch, or the wagon falling off. When he has a top scum pick, it seems odd to be indirectly supporting a policy lynch at the same time.

After that he lashes out a bit at LMP for seeming upset/surprised that wolf wagon got to L-1. Which I too was kinda surprised to see, and was even more surprised to see a claim come out of it.

Zyrc isnt scumhunting at all. He is just blindly accepting all of the wagons for "good" ones and not commenting on much else. We have no idea what he thinks on the wolf claim. Or just about everyone else in the game. Im not even entirely sure what his read on LMP is at this point, apart from him not liking that I have a town read on him.

Zyrc is scum, LMP is town, wolf is prob town.

[LlamaFluff]

So, the LMP wagon: there's a lot of WIFOM in your defense, LMP. Things like 'If I wanted to end debate... I've done it before.' Not everyone reads meta over their morning cup of coffee, nor should we, quite frankly. He's over defensive and isn't contributing much to town. However, at least 2 of the 5 posts that were made in his only case post I happen to agree with (I am playing with vezo in another game, and he's a headache to actually listen to. Once you think he MIGHT acutally act town for three seconds, he says something completely scummy, and I think you'd be a fool to just accept WW's claim at face value since this could be an obvious ploy for scum, particularly since Empking forced it and then did a 180 on it). I actually don't think he's the most scummy player in the game: I think the cop and his magical buddy are scummier in actual play, however it is Day 1 and I think he makes a solid third choice for scum and not someone I wouldn't mind seeing lynch, although I'd like a more unique opinion than general parrotting of Parama's.

Can you consolidate this into "I think <player> is [scum/town] because of <reason>"?

Also you ignored what I asked you much earlier. Just because you dont post for 10 pages doesnt mean you dont answer.

[LlamaFluff]

@ Llamafluff
Do you think Zyrconium's latest efforts redeemed him any?

Not in the least. Its actually other peoples actions that are making me doubt myself a little.

@Vezok - You say we "have" to lynch LMP, is he scum? Why? You say wearwolf "has" to be lynched tomorrow. Why? What if he has a guilty? What if he does something that makes him look town? You say DGL is scum. Why?

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
Vote Vezok

I can get behind this wagon. Apart from that wierd move on Z, I still really dislike him just trying to push policy lynches while not pushing his top suspect.

[LlamaFluff]

@LF: what do you currently think of Zyrc? I was surprised at your wagon change.

Other peoples comments are making me a little uneasy about him, as most of my outside picks for scum are treating him like I would expect a mislynch to be treated. That said, I would still be ok with a lynch/vig of him just because he still reads as scummy to me. His recent posts really havent done anything to change that opinion again.

@Zyrc - Why is vezok scum?

@wolf/LMP/vezok - Flavor please (really not sure why I didnt ask this earlier)

[LlamaFluff]

Either LMP got an amazing fakeclaim or is VT. Seriously.

[LlamaFluff]

Mod can give fake role PMs out, y'know.

Yeah I know. Thats why I put the two options and the word "or" in there. Is just near perfect flavor for that role.

[LlamaFluff]

When I read it, I felt the same way... but SC wrote the role PMs and probably wrote the fakeclaim PMs too, so that shouldn't be surprising.

I mostly agree with that. I just think its unlikely that scum gets a VT fakeclaim that is better flavor/justification then what my role is.

*Note this is not any type of a claim. Just saying if you only compared flavor that LMP claimed to what I have, his is way better. Mine is more along the line of wolfs.

[LlamaFluff]

wolf - go

[LlamaFluff]

Cool. I disagree with almost everything Parama just said.

Scum is actually in - Zyrc/Fishy/Emp/Parma.

SK is almost for sure not a SK but a vig with those kills.

[LlamaFluff]

Who would be a SK and kill with fire for that matter?

The kill makes next to no sense from a SK, and very little from a vig. Little >> none

Is it you and not Parama?

[LlamaFluff]

LlamaFluff: it's called an arsonist. In fact, SWNII had an arsonist SK so I am shocked that you didn't know this.

Excuse me for forgetting the kill method of a SK in a game that happened a year ago...

I still see it coming from vig more then SK given how bad it is for a SK to kill a claimed VT the first night. SK isnt supposed to scumhuntkill until mid-late game. I can see a vig making that kill much more so.

Its going to be Zyrc/Fishy/Pack? Is Ghost a VI or scum? The answer to these or more as the game progresses. I think the answers are "two of the three" and "maybe even both".

[LlamaFluff]

Scum is actually in - Zyrc/Fishy/Emp/Parma.

This one is actually disturbing though, I'll start with: "Why fishy?"

Odd that you are concerned about it... but its beacuse you two look like scum together all over the place.

EBWOP: If Werewolf even has a investigation, that is.

No, I'd like to hear who he investigated even if he got blocked.(I can't see anyway it'd hurt at least)

I cant see anyway it would help either, which means its more likely to hurt.

[LlamaFluff]

Where did Pack suddenly come from?

SK fear mongering. Im fairly sure one of him-Parama is scum at this point, just a matter of who.

This one is actually disturbing though, I'll start with: "Why fishy?"

Any reason you didn't ask me the same thing?

As I said, Llama's list concerns me, what with it containing me(who I'll ignore for now), a relatively null, slightly town read who is null enough I can't see Llama building a solid case on him(i.e. I would expect more, easy target Emp, and Parama, who he hadn't said anything alignment-wise about until that post...

Well, I still think you are scum for previous reasoning, plus the fact that you are running around just quoting people and going "interesting" instead of actually saying something (a tell when cop is alive*). Fishy is probably scum if you are scum, if you arent he is null-ish. Emp wants to lynch the cop (scumtell), and Parama just made me really uncomfortable with his pushes yesterday (and lack of in some cases), making me think Parama-Emp team. Funny to note is Parama doesnt fit too well into a you-fish team. Ghost is pinging me a whole lot, and im grappling on VI or scum fight. Usually I have a read down on VI players at this point and lack of one is concerning.

*Scum are nervous about cop results (unless there is a RB) and will react accordingly. If they know they did not get investigated, they will be less afraid to make connection tells. I am increasingly confident in wolf-cop though given the miller flip. I have seen one game with a miller and no cop, and that was a game where scum had a framer to throw them off as well.

Vote Zyrc

[LlamaFluff]

At least... LEAST one of the wolf voters are scum. The only way we lynch wolf today is if someone else says "I was roleblocked last night". We have a miller, we have an uncountered cop claim, we are not lynching the damn cop. If there is a RBer (which there normally is) did any of you on the wagon expect him NOT to be blocked if he was a cop or not?

I swear if he gets lynched I will continually berate everyone who was on the wagon for the remainder of the game.

unvote
Vote Emp

I see him as scum much more then I see Jerbs as scum just in relation to my other reads right now. I could be coerced to a Jerbs vote though depending on how the Q&A there goes.

Ghost is pinging the scummy-VI dar quite a bit with his vote on him for being "useless if town" which is never a reason to lynch (in absence of a few rare scenarios not occuring)

[LlamaFluff]

Yes, that's WIFOM. The entire damn thing is WIFOM. The only way we can be sure we're not being played is the lynch, and werewolf's play is lackluster at best. You're treating this as if he's obvtown, when in this scenario he stands at least a 50% chance of being scummy.

Because he is freaking obv-town. The only way I can be sure you are town-VI and not scum-VI is lynching you, why not do that? The setup so far points to him being town. The flavor matches up with a cop. Him attracting the RB every night is AMAZINGLY great. If he is town cop, the RB is stuck on him for the entire game unless the kill him. If he is scum, any active role getting RBed ends up with him being caught. This is a win-win-win, we win if he is scum, we win if he is town, and I win because im right. He is town, I will never vote him without someone saying "I was roleblocked last night".

Am I pinging the VI/scum-dar? Why the hell are you letting an active lurker that we had to prod to get his investigation out when he claimed cop Day 1 get away with this, particularly with an AtE that summarized is 'well, you can lynch me if you want to.'

Him being lurky and not helping is doing nothing to make his role claim change. He is town, everything else is inconsequent at this point. If he wants to just follow someone I think is town im cool with that. Also the "oh lynch me" doesnt hold water, you saw the LMP flip.

[LlamaFluff]

There is absolutely no good reason for thinking we have a cop in this game. Emphasis on "Good".

There is good reason, such as the miller flip.

And Llama I feel you're deliberately ignoring my posts in order to lynch me. I said (yesterday) "werewolf had a mod-=provided safe claim" then you say "The flavor matches up with a cop." as if it means something.

You are trying to lynch a cop claim that fits flavor, fits known flips, and has the "RB" already on top of them. Thats scummy. I would rather lynch anyone in the game over wolf right now.

[LlamaFluff]

Ugh... think Emp truely just believes the complete wrong thing here.

unvote
Vote pack

[LlamaFluff]

Between

We

can't

trust the cop in this scenario. I kinda shouted this from the rooftops Day 1, and most of you ignored me. The fact that Werewolf is blocked and was scummy enough to have his own wagon Day 1 indicates to me one of two things: either he's scum lying through his teeth (nice 'go ahead if it makes you feel better and lynch me') or cop that relegated himself to not much more than active lurking, one-liners and being the equalivent of a VT.

The "cop" isn't trustworthy in this scenario, he's not pro-town.

and

Zyrc: Your last post made my head explode: what makes Jerbs a better lynch than Emp, who voted werewolf for no other reason except for the blocked result we were all expecting. Also, your Zyrc vote had no content as well.

abd what Emp just said

The only remaining question would be "Is Ghost bussing Jerbs (distinct possibility) or trying to mislynch him?"

unvote
Vote Ghost

[LlamaFluff]

I WILL NOT LET THIS TOWN LYNCH WRONG AGAIN.
LOOK AT JERBS' LATEST POST. AS SOON AS HE SEES A GHOSTLIN WAGON FORMING, HE HOPS RIGHT ON AND MAKES THE WORST CASE I HAVE

EVER

SEEN. TOWN DO NOT DO THIS.

I reluctantly have to agree with this. Always hate having to deal with no super strong town reads. What I do want before a lynch is packbat to explain in his own words why Jerbs is scum though.

unvote
Vote Jerbs

[LlamaFluff]

Uh, that was the hammer, fool.

You can still give me that case

[LlamaFluff]

I am all but ready to vote fishy-scum.

Wolf gets to claim first though. If anyone has anything to clears/condemns people it may be massclaim time regardless.

[LlamaFluff]

This game sucks when your list is essentially: "Two out of everyone but wolf"

Im thinking we may be near massclaim point.

[LlamaFluff]

I still think Zyrc is scum. We also need to figure out what is going on with the vig/SK now. Even though I lean vig, if its an SK, we actually need to change our plan. Also I think its massclaim time.

[LlamaFluff]

I swear if we lynch wolf-cop im going to kill someone. Im also becoming increasingly paranoid of Parama-scum at this point, and it wouldnt surprise me in a second if he is using ghost-town as a puppet at this point. This is part due to him continually attacking people I think are obviously town, and that his behavior doesnt really feel like Parama-town to me, something is off. I really still think Zyrc is scum at this point, but we do need to massclaim.

If we massclaim, it sheds more light on the wolf-cop validity, and may actually take someone out of the scumpool, or give us reason to look at someone a little closer.

[LlamaFluff]

Captain Locke - Vanilla Townie, had to come out from under the couch cousins to stop the bullying

Parama - Claim

[LlamaFluff]

Okay, so Zyrc is SK.

Nope. Those were two of the most obvious vig kills I have ever seen.

One of Ghost/Parama, one of Fishy/Anti with outside chance of ghost AND parama. Thats all she wrote. The setup is perfectly balanced with cop-vig-miller against RB-goon-?.

Will figure out which too later, wondering constantly on Parama at this point still.

[LlamaFluff]

So Parama thinks this is mountainous with SK and miller?

Correct! Which is one of the reasons I keep thinking he is scum, he is keeping his options open as much as possible. Trying to get cop lynched, trying to get vig lynched.

[LlamaFluff]

This game is just annoying, really can make a decent case for anyone to be scum at this point but I think most people have laid down a few town tells at the same time. I actually think the last post from Ghost trying to make enemies out of me and Parama puts him as my least prefered lynch out of the four. My prefrence between anti/fishy/parama just keeps jumping all over the place though.

Hardest part is the Parama-Pack interactions. All of the early game stuff basically screams partner, all the day two stuff says not partner, so im just trying to see if that was a bus or not. The constant pushing on the now obv-town wolf and zyrc really is making me want a dead parama though.

Anti seems bad around the early zyrc-jerbs interactions, and really hasnt thrown out too many town tells. I have no clue what Parama is talking about when he said anti is town by iso, since the only thing I consider a town tell was made post that comment.

Fishy I just have gut issues, with, although most of my thoughts of him scum were based on Zyrc first being scum. I guess I have to consider him to be least likey scum out of those three.

Need to look around and see if Parama or anti is more likely scum. Will vote once I figure that out.

[LlamaFluff]

...not to mention the flavor for fishy's claim is the least believeable out of everyone's. Mr. who? That music teacher? He shows up for a couple strips once in a blue moon.

This is outguessing the mod. However, for the sake of argument, does my claim appear more often than his?

Flavor wise, my character and anti's are most town (my character being same age as Millie and switched places with her for a few days [hillarity ensues], also he is *storyline spoiler*

Millies dad

. Timulty is like the epitome of innocence).

Parama gets second tier with a secondary character with no real character flaws but never is shown to be some amazingly good hearted player.

The teachers are not shown in too good of a light most of the time (especially Sorkowitz), although its in part biased due to the story being told from childrens standpoint for the most part.

Characters I would expect to see as scum would be Beau Vine (flipped miller), Jeremy (dead goon), probably Felicia (although I would have though her as more likely miller), then maybe Sorkowitz (hated teacher) or Avery (follower, trying to be cool)

[LlamaFluff]

Sorry mod, didnt want that not spoilered though incase someone wanted to read comic

[LlamaFluff]

Yeah I outright refuse to vote wolf, I cant see him being scum, like at all.

Parama making me think he is scum again with the sudden push on him and Ghost is quickly giving back all the townie brownies I gave him.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama. Do you think Fishy is scum?

Decent chance of it. I think its basically a combination of you/fish/anti with a remainder of ghost.

[LlamaFluff]

Im running in circles a bit all over here. I think its one of fishy/anti, but no more then one of them. At the same time, I keep getting gut scum reads from Parama over almost everything. Ghost still lies in the "prob-town" area, with Zyrc and wolf taking town reads for their roles.

Now I get torn because I am more sure of one of anti/fish being scum then I am of parama being scum. Its nearly to the point where I would just stop playing for a while if they were both town. Its just all over the place on stuff. I need to lock the game down more.

Almost willing to stay I would vote fishy over anyone else right now, but still not sure.

[LlamaFluff]

Ok

vote fishy

[LlamaFluff]

This waffling thing w/ parama just smells like bs to me.

So your arguement is... im not scum with fishy, you, parama, wolf, zyrc or ghost?