Mini 1099: The Prisoner Mafia. Game Over.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Spyrex

Random.org, number (1-68), result 20.

Post 20:

JoaT FAKE ROLE PM in the OP is just a massive red herring mind fuck?

HOW MANY TIME YOU GOTTA BE SCUM JACK BEFOREYOU STOP SIGNING UP FOR GAMES WITH ME

VOTE: JACK

If Jack didn't pull something like that by page two, then I'd be worried. Why do you think he's scum for this when he does something like it every single game?

[Nachomamma8]

See, I know they're both town because I'M the real miller.

6:

Besides, you’d really like to see Number 2 hang. Any Number 2, even if it later turns out not to have been Number 2 will be worth it momentarily.

I am a prophet of this holy voice.

Unvote, Vote: Cookie

Unvote...?

[Nachomamma8]

Confirm Vote: SpyreX

Tomorrow, we dance. But if we lynch Jack and Jack flips town, your vote is mine. Fair?

50:

THE FUCK IS SAMOA?

POST YOUR GODDAMN THOUGHTS ON THE TWO MILLER CLAIMS, YOU DONT NEED TO UNDERSTAND JACK TO UNDERSTAND WE BOTH CLAIMED MILLER

Wait, so he's making sure chess comments on the two miller claims? Well, the purpose of gambits are to garner reactions, and Fate's making sure he gets his money's worth. TOWN

[Nachomamma8]

Spy, is our date still on? <3

84:

It was one of those "gambits" that had no downside.

The kind of thing I expect from fresh young bucks ready to go, fighting in the big leagues.

Yeah, I agree. If he was scum and trying to fish out prominent numbers, I doubt he would've added "Some numbers became the new number 2. Some numbers betrayed number two and helped number 6." That sounds more like town tempting scum to claim someone like 313, 1112, or 415...

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: SpyreX

You've played with Jack PLENTY before. So, when you see Jack say something like "hey i think this is an all vanilla setup" when this is a game in CONEY ISLAND and with a NONVANILLA ROLE PM, you know damn well he's not serious. And you use this to push a lynch on him, even after he counterclaims a miller. You haven't been a tinfoil hat theory kind of guy from the times I've played with you. Your "you or me" thing was a load of crap because you knew DAMN WELL that you weren't going to get lynched D1. Fate calls you scum, you pull those tricks, avoid ever answering Fate, then you back down and vote EK, still calling for bullets into Jack all the while. It doesn't make sense.

Did you just vote FOR me and then ask if it goes the other way if you can have my vote?

Is that what I see there?

If you managed to get Jack lynched/shot off your little theory, then I wanted to make sure that you were going to be shut down the next day. There's no better way to do that then by stealing your vote.

Nacho: can you sum up your history with fate? And your day 1 play? Thanks.

Mutual townreads, sheeping, etc. If both of us survive to Day 4, that's because we're both town. Very reluctant to call the other out as scum, but definitely will. Inactivity of either kills the dynamic completely, though.

Day one play was bleeding apathy. Only person I was interested in SpyreX, who has Day 1 lynch immunity. Also setting up my numbers game.



Plum, do you have a strong town read on camn or are you just scared of her?

296:

BTW Scum you can totally make a case on me using the fact that I called for a PL on chesskid and now I'm talking to him as if he's town.

Plus I claimed miller than retracted it when I got Counter-Claimed.

There's no way in HELL I'm N1 NK fodder this game.

Just think about it FFS

No way that chesscum would kill Fate after this.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't see how Jacks day 1 shenanigans are anything other than RVS breakers, though. What is the possible scum motivation there?

+

Why would scum start out with "im gonna claim super PR, so as town I'd just speculate that its an all vanilla set-up so thats what ill post like" NBO NONONONONONO OCCAMZ FUCKIN RAZOR.

Why didnt he just CC as miller only? Hell if I fucking know. Maybe he wanted to justify why he said all vanilla set-up, which would have made NO SENSE coming from just a miller. Hell it doesnt make sense coming from a miller-anything but Jack is a dull boy.

addresses the super duper PR bit.

Why would questioning make everything okay? A miller is a miller, whether unlynchable doublevoting governor is in front of it or not.

The EC vote would still make me angry even if he flipped scum. Why would you vote with the two people you thought were gambitting scum? To think that Jack and Fate were going to pull the double miller gambit and then go bus their partner is too much tinfoil hattery for anyone.

And now, you're still not dropping the Jacknoia. You will believe that Jack and Fate were pulling a double-miller gambit. You will believe that scum-Jack counterclaimed town-Fate's miller claim in an instant, and decided to claim some super-PR role for who knows what reason. But it hasn't crossed your mind at ALL that Jack is just gambiting? Not buying it.

338:

YES BECAUSE I CLEARLY REMEMBER EVERY NIGHTKILL CHOICE IN EVERY GAME I'M IN. SURE THING.

YOU WEREN'T SETTING NACHO UP FOR A TALKING. YOU WERE SETTING HIM UP TO CRACK UNDER PRESSURE TO GET ANOTHER MISSLYNCH.

Part of the chess-camn crapfest. Camn's bit was weak because that was a game I replaced in and was then promptly DK'ed, so Fate's death really wasn't that memorable. Chess's is weak because camn would be insta-lynched if she tried to push my lynch based on "they have a history together and Fate died N1".

[Nachomamma8]

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!

[Nachomamma8]

Assume you're some kind of multishot day cop/day vig whatever and also a miller. You decide to claim.
Someone ELSE then also claims miller. At that moment the idea that perhaps, in fact, there's some correlation to there being one or two massive power roles and milleritude. So, you ask what would appear to be a strange question: are you JUST a miller? Because, the answer to that if its no might be both giving some insight AND giving a reason to believe the claim.

But what Jack did had the same effect. He claimed miller SUPER ROLE, and unvoted Fate because he thought there were more. At this point, Fate could've said "HEYYY I'M A MILLER SUPER ROLE TOO", ignored it and kept on the normal miller claim, or backed down completely (like he did). Same effect, but gave Fate the choice to preserve his identity.

But, even then, look at the Ruffing's 'gambit' D1. That is a (while not going to catch any but the silliest) a good attempt at a trap. The claiming miller (which hasn't been reducted btw) and the repeated concessions WHILE NOT JUST FESSING UP isn't a good gambit.

It's usually town who make the well-intentioned but bad gambits. And with Jack making intentionally contridicting/stupid posts, I'm pretty sure he's not scum because he's much smarter than that. And if he is scum, well. He's got some brass, brass balls counterclaiming a townie miller claim.

I agree with you that the Jack conversation is getting a bit stale, and I'll also agree that it's missing a lot of Jack. We're done with this conversation for now.

I actually didn't know about that game until chesskid prompted me to search.
I CERTAINLY wasn't planning a case based on it.

It only surfaced because of chess' bizarre defense.
Which turned out to actually be a lie. Or maybe just a fantasy.

I don't think pointing out obvious, factual lies is 'weak'... Though I do admit I shouldn't have been feeding the troll.
Is there some other part of my posts you mean when you say 'weak' or 'crap'?

I was saying your point that chess was trying to defend me with the Fate comment even though he knew better was weak. And your entire ISO #11 - ISO #20 was useless, with only a few bits of :goodposting: to salvage from the wreckage. But I wasn't referencing anymore than that.

Plum, why didn't you pay any attention to Jack today? Yesterday, you commented that the only reason that Jackscum didn't make sense was because EC was being scummier and the two didn't make sense as buddies, right?

Spy, what's your read on Tajo? Do you have a scumread on any nonlurkers? (Everyone minus the golden four, to be specific).

Sotty, what's your interpretation of this post?

Bah! Want an off-the-wall theory on the disappearance? It's Zorblag's adaptation of Professor Seltzman's machine from "Do Not Forsake Me Oh, My Darling" - the psyche swapping device. Only since the psyche can't actually swap in real life, the one who used it dies (disappears). The roles/win condition of the two are swapped. The topic of identity theft was also covered in "Schizoid Man". The series also covered other themes such as brain washing, peer pressure and individual vs group (mason flavor fits well here). So, there could even be a cult running about to boot - though that is probably a bit overkill. There is something awfully weird about disappearance as a killing method and I bet there is some strange mechanic going on in the background.

On the topic of chesskid3 and Jack - eh, seems unlikely they would both be so obvious as scum, true. Though if they are town, they certainly need to get into the game or risk receiving the MVS award (most valuable scum) for all their help to the scum faction. Personally, I'll be pissed if they both turn out to be townies who threw away this game just so they can more easily win their other games as scum because "they always play this way".

77:

VOTE: SPYREX

form obvious scumbaggery.

FOS: PLUM

for lurking.

After the two miller claims, so I'm guessing this is a serious vote. He later retracts it after SpyreX explains his Ruffles town read, and another attack on Jack.
The FoS is adequately hypocritical, considering tajo is gone like dust in the wind.

[Nachomamma8]

The set up speculation looks strong in that he knows of the theme. If that is the case I'm sure not how he seems to be the only one who doesn't agree that disappeared fits the theme for a scum kill. I guess we could all be wrong, but when I read the flavor and saw disappeared v garroted I thought it was clear.

Let me reword that. Why do you feel the speculation Rufflig made in that post is likelier to come from scum?

im debating wether rufflig is onboxious townie or some kind of scumzor with some couching. and ive seen some poeple think he is obvtown, please help me here, spy, chess?

SpyreX explained in ISO #5, ISO #7, then referenced in ISO #47.
I'm pretty sure that chess doesn't think Rufflig is town at all.

-convulated case against spyrex which he later discards

Why's the case convuluted? And I'm not discarding it. I've simply stopped talking to SpyreX about Jack until Jack has a chance to comment himself, as I said in #393 in response to #369.

?, what kind of scumhunting questions are this?

The first quote is referring to ISO #2, where Plum clears Jack with the assumption that EC = scum. She dropped this line completely in her D2 opening post, and I wondered why.

I found that post of Rufflig to be pretty town, so I was wondering why Sotty thought it wasn't.

wtf this has been in the game for years, what is the point or motivation to bring it? oh, i know

Every single one of my posts has ended with a comment on a random post. What made you think yours was any different from the rest?

trying to mislynch tajo scumtell.

Spy has commented mostly on me, Plum, and Ojanen, so I wondered what he thought about the last of the golden 4.

Nacho, I don't know what your 'little numbers game' is and I've seen it do nothing for me or the game or anything. So what's the deal?

What do you mean? It's something I want to try out and see if it produces any good. It's not like this is TRIED AND TRUE or something like that.

163:

SPYREX
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON

Chess being angry at SpyreX for arguing with Fate about who has to die, primarily about Jack. Might've contributed to the SpyreX vote of EC considering he was a Spy townread at this point, and he was one more person who found the Jack suspicion ridiculous.

PEDIT: What's wrong with the scum game he linked in thread?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm in 13 games, so 22 posts is not as much as it sounds. I try to not go inactive in Newbie games (bad example and all), and I was trying to find some way to navigate out of an impossible situation in PYP4.

@camn:
http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/YxHHDkeJdSVi
That scum quicktopic is the reason why he would say something like that, and it also happened to be the only game where I was scum, he was town and I wasn't replacing in. BUT that game was special because I was playing against a decently experienced player list that I wasn't familiar with, and I had two partners who had never been scum before. I figured that my lynch would equal the death of the scumteam as a whole, so I didn't want to leave it up to chance. I normally wouldn't kill Fate N1 unless he caught onto something since I enjoy playing with him, and we wouldn't have a "history" if I didn't.

TOWN
Chesskid - Camn would've been dead N1 if he was scum, and I certainly don't think that chessscum is stubborn enough to keep pushing camn after all this time.
Jack - The gambit read as seriously townie to me.
Camn - Nothing's seemed off with her except for the chesskid fight.
Sotty - Town read on Ojanen for ISO #2, and Sotty's been scumhunting and goodposting ever since she replaced in.
tajo - Always on the offensive is townie not scummy. But it also means that he doesn't respond to anything ever.
Rufflig - The post I quoted for Sotty and his little gambit made him seem townie to me, but the guy who called misrepping his meta angry at Sotty for misrepping doesn't make sense to me.
Plum - Trying to buddy to camn, interactions with Rufflig, obsession with the "towniness" of the Cookie Wagon.
Spyrex - Should be obvious by now.

I never said it did. I'm guessing you think this post is a town tell, you are going to have to break down why for me.

From town comes the most ridiculous setup speculation, and there's really no reason for Rufflig as scum to speculate on what's behind the disappeared flavor.

314:

People who need to die now.
Hiraki

Cookie

Ojanen

Zang

/Plum

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU ALL BICKERING FOR

I'm totally fluffposting, and the rest of the people on this list still need to die.

This list still valid, chesskid?

[Nachomamma8]

#375 is why you aren't scum together.
And no, I don't think so. Fate admitted yesterday he was doing the same thing camn's doing today.

98:

No.

I am not dealing with this until "endgame".

i didnt say until, i said before

if millers act scummy lynch accordingly, if not then proceed normally with typical scumhunting, ive always played like that before and good things happened.

why do you think jack is acting scummy?

FUN FACT:
This question was never answered.

[Nachomamma8]

Jesus that QUESTION HAS BEEN ANSWERED OVER AND OVER AGAIN ON WHY I THINK IT IS A SCUM MOTIVATED MANUVER

GET A NEW FUN FACT I SWEAR TO GOD

OR THIS

Unvote, Vote: Nacho

Don't let SpyreX escape after this hammer.

Don't let him go "herp derp I didn't read the votecount", or "i already explained this x1000 times".
Just fucking lynch him.

[Nachomamma8]

There's ONE gambit I'm 'expecting' and if thats the case I'm going to lose my mind.

But, even then, look at the Ruffing's 'gambit' D1. That is a (while not going to catch any but the silliest) a good attempt at a trap. The claiming miller (which hasn't been reducted btw) and the repeated concessions WHILE NOT JUST FESSING UP isn't a good gambit.

But, go for it.

Spy, you never ever ever said why Jack has been acting scummy.

You've said it how the play makes no sense to you. You refuse to believe for ONE SECOND that maybe Jack is just GAMBITTING or being STUPID, and you never believe why you don't believe that. Ever.

[Nachomamma8]

That was a hammer? GOOD.

DOUBLE GOOD

NO NOT DOUBLE GOOD I'M A FUCKING SURVIVOR AND ITS DIFFICULT TO DODGE LYNCH AND VIG AND NIGHTKILL AND NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BEING HAMMERED BECAUSE OF TRIGGER-HAPPY SCUM.

[Nachomamma8]

of course chesskid is town. he's the vig.
of course camn is town. she's the mason.

and of course you're calling for Jack to be shot, since he's playing to draw the NK and HE'S PROBABLY A BULLETPROOF.

[Nachomamma8]

I've said over and over how I dont think the play makes sense (as TOWN) because its a stupid gambit (see Ruff).

AND THE DEFENSE HAS BEEN LOL META OVER AND OVER

If, ohh, chess had pulled that stunt D1 he'd be dead to doornails.

AND I LYNCH STUPID BECAUSE STUPID IS NOT A COVER FOR BACKTRACKING AND BEING SCUM

THATS BECAUSE CHESS NEVER PULLS GAMBITS LIKE THIS.

JACK ALWAYS DOES.

[Nachomamma8]

Yes, and if Plum was behaving like chess is right now you'd be like LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH right?

[Nachomamma8]

It's a load of crap when you decide to disregard meta when it's convenient. When you want to push for a mislynch, meta is garbage but when you want to get on someone's goodside and they're acting town, THEN it's acceptable, right SpyreX?

[Nachomamma8]

And one last thing, a present to the members of the town who aren't playing dumb:

For some nonemeta SpyreX scumminess, notice how every day he starts out CONVINCED he's going to lynch a player, then switches at the end of the day to lynch someone else. D1, it was "OHH IMA LYNCH JACK", then voted Cookie. D2, it was "PLUM IS SCUM BUT LET ME HAMMER NACHO WHO PLUM IS MOST DEFINITELY NOT BUSSING".

And I would lynch anyone for your tinfoil hat theories, SpyreX. Anyone. It's beyond stupid to say that Jack is scum for the gambit after the Fate town flip. NO SCUM WOULD COUNTERCLAIM A MILLER. NONE.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: Plum

but lets leave him for the scum/vig/sk/whatever and lynch scum

comical third option, you leave me alive and we all lynch scum together!

PRO TIP IF IT ISNT A VIG HES NOT DYING

Why?

WHICH MEANS IF NO SCUM DIE THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE (HINT REAL GOOD) SCUM WIN TOMORROW

Which means that we should lynch scum now! Hammer Plum!

[Nachomamma8]

I mean...

You might as well give me a chance to escape this place. Not doing that much would be fucking bastardly, ya.

[Nachomamma8]

You know, the vig holding his shot would be pretty acceptable.

It'd give us another lynch to work with, at least. And then, I'd at least have a shot of winning.

[Nachomamma8]

Sotty or tajo are both good shots.

Better than me, in fact.

[Nachomamma8]

We won't be seeing from Troll until Monday, I think.

IF PLUM IS SCUM KILL NACHO and you will be for the rest of the game.

Why not shoot Sotty if Plum flips scum? She's had the buddy tells with scum that you pointed out, plus posts #485-#487 make her individually scummy as well. How could she miss my survivor claim after we've talked about me being a survivor with the past two pages? What did Sotty think camn was mentioning neutral survivors for in post #461 was about? This shows that she was either blatantly lying, or active lurking until she spotted her name, which makes her a FANTASTIC shot.

[Nachomamma8]

I still think Jack is town. He pulled an NK-drawing gambit here as well, and his super miller PR gambit happened a little after he was NK'ed in the game I linked. The only other thing against Jack that I can see is his D2 disappearence, but he was gone everywhere during that time, so it doesn't read as scum to me.

The only person I'm uneasy with on the Plum wagon is SpyreX, but honestly, I'm not that uneasy with him. He easily could've pushed for camn to hammer me (since she had a prestated suspicion of me) instead of hammering his scumbuddy the Jailkeeper.

Meaning that the only person left is populartajo.

[Nachomamma8]

Yeah, tajo is mafia.

I have no idea who the SK is.

[Nachomamma8]

Wait, Jack isn't out of the running for SK.

Rufflig MIGHT be SK, doubt it though.

[Nachomamma8]

Hold on, still thinking about this.

Bulletproof claim would be perfect to stop the other faction from shooting at you. In this respect, it'd be better than a vig claim for Tajo unless he was bulletproof.
But masons only makes the town seem weak and pitiful to balance for such a scumteam + SK. Unless there's something funky going on with #2, but all my paranoia there is mostly flavor-based.

[Nachomamma8]

V/LA for a couple of days due to sickness

That said.. Nacho must be a SK, probably the last threat to the town.

So I'm guessing you're assuming that all the talk of #2 (big bad of the show) and "his cronies" is a red herring, then?

The Zang kill doesn't make sense from a Nacho as SK standpoint, considering he was the only person who lurked as hard as I did D1.

[Nachomamma8]

Considering every single power role thus far seems to specifically screw over the SK, I'm pretty sure that it shouldn't be TOO much of a leap to assume that I was placed on this holy Earth to make his job a little less impossible.

At this point, I know in my heart that SpyreX is scum, but I doubt he's ever going to be lynched.
Tajo's probably scum.
Jack's probably town.
Rufflig's definitely town.

I would MUCH rather lynch tajo than jack at this point since tajo is likelier mafia over SK, though.

[Nachomamma8]

You can win with the mafia. You can't win with the SK.

My win condition says I can win with ANY faction, as long as they're the only ones left.
Why, does your win condition say "kill everyone"?

[Nachomamma8]

Usually by making it to the end of the game alive.

[Nachomamma8]

Well the first SK role I got was like that, and there WAS a survivor in the game that I could win with.

[Nachomamma8]

if game continues.

Do you seriously think the setup is
2 mason
town bomb
town bulletproof
Vanilla Townie x6
scum watcher
scum jailkeeper
SK

>.>

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: tajo

[Nachomamma8]

Well the first SK role I got was like that, and there WAS a survivor in the game that I could win with.

[Nachomamma8]

No.

I never pretended this setup was common.

[Nachomamma8]

Well, let's see. I can win with any faction.

There's one mafia left.
There's one SK left.
Two mafia members have flipped.

Winning with the mafia is unlikely, considering all of their scumhunting is fake and they have two flipped people with connections to them.
Winning with SK is a better possibility, considering they've been legitimately scumhunting and have no connection to flipped scum.
Winning with town is likely if we lynch either the mafia or SK today.

So, if I'm playing to my win condition, looks like lynching mafia is my best option! It makes winning with the SK more likely (mafia won't be able to shoot him), and it makes winning with the town more likely!

[Nachomamma8]

Why does mafia + SK existing automatically make me a liar? Do you honestly believe that the setup I posted earlier is plausible, but 3Maf+SK+Survivor isn't? You were fine with the balance of it when Rufflig claimed bomb, so I don't really get why you changed opinions after revoting me for a different reason.

Then, there's the win condition thing. I don't understand WHY you keep referring to "common SK win conditions", and it's terrible that we even have to have this discussion. All win conditions are NOT the same. This is a specific game, meaning that we have specific win conditions. I look at my role PM and I get a pretty specific win condition that implies I can win with whoever I want to. You can't tell me my win condition is invalid because you presumably have no evidence, unless Zorblag stuck the SK win condition in the townie role PM. I don't understand why you would apply "the common SK win condition" to every game you're in because win conditions CAN be different. If you WANT to claim SK with the win condition "kill them all", go ahead, but otherwise this argument is terrible.

Finally, the worst case scenario for lynching me if I'm telling the truth is LyLo. 2 scum still alive, and 1 town player still alive. And I'm sure you and tajo would make sure that the town wouldn't that dilemma. If scum is lynched today, though, it'll actually be MyLo, 4-1 with a DAMN good idea of who's the remaining scum.

[Nachomamma8]

Point about the setup taken.

I don't see why I'm likeliest SK though, but I'll post something on that tomorrow. Too tired now.

[Nachomamma8]

Goddammit.

[Nachomamma8]

I was, I was.

And no self doubt, Jack. You hammered mafia.

But still