Mini 1096 - Seinfeld Mafia (Game Over)

[Kmd4390]

Town:
Magna
Kat
Mac
Charter (unless Untrod is scum)
Haschel

Scum:
peanut
Raj
LMP
Untrod

Vote Untrod

[Kmd4390]

Town:
Magna
Kat
Mac
Charter (unless Untrod is scum)
Haschel

Scum:
peanut
Raj
LMP
Untrod

Vote Untrod

Unvote Untrod, Vote rajjkdsghadfjksghadfjkhjkghadfjklbgakl

----------------

Ok, was gonna try doing what I've seen Glork, Elli, and a few others do and contain myself first few posts, but I can't do it.

----------------

Haschel,

Vote: Untrod Tripod

. He knows why.

whats even weirder is the fact that Haschel completely ignores it and just randomly votes like hes in auto pilot.

I ignored it because I gave none of the fucks about it. None of them.

A bunch of reminiscing about previous games that I wasn't a part of and have no intention of reading? Not interested. And my vote wasn't random.

You serious?

-----------------

LMP, how is that an Untrod-Magna connection? I see stronger connections between Untrod-Charter, Untrod-Rajdjfhadskfjhdasjf, and even Untrod-LMP than Untrod-Magna.

[Kmd4390]

Why is Magna a "great candidate" any more than Charter or Kat? Or from our point of view, better than you?

Don't let me forget that I have input on this, but I want your answer first.

[Kmd4390]

Shit, my input fails.

I'll still explain after LMP's response.

[Kmd4390]

Rajjdskfhdsjkaf, your OMGUS is showing.

Just because I played with you before doesn't mean I should immediately have a town read on you. You were scummy in Harry Potter (yeah, I was scum there, but my reasons for pushing your lynch were legit if I remember correctly) and you are scummy now.

And I don't recall any reasoning for my vote on you that has to do with anybody's list.

----------------

Hachel, usually, "he knows why" isn't a serious vote. Care to explain?

---------------

LMP,

how

does it look more like distancing than legitimate suspicion?

Why do I have to pry this out of you?

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote Haschel

[Kmd4390]

Probably not, but I'm getting more frustrated with Haschel because I'm dealing with him directly. For the same reason, I expect that you are more frustrated with Mac than with Haschel.

[Kmd4390]

@freak: How is signing up for THE MOD rather than the flavor jerkish?

Yeah, I'm here for the playerlist. I watched Seinfeld once I think.

---------------

LMP, ok.

By the way, the thing I noticed was that Magna and Kat were the first two to post and made Untrod's list. LMP was Untrod's vote and made the list. I was curious about where the hell Charter's name got dragged in from, but he's first on the playerlist, so scratch that theory.

---------------

Peanut is still scum.

[Kmd4390]

How is Peanut town?

[Kmd4390]

Also, does anybody find it odd that Kmd wants me to explain my "He knows why" but doesn't wand LMP to explain his "He knows why", even though the two were made for differing reasons?

I don't think LMP called his a serious vote and then refused to explain it.

Also, the Rajdsjghadfjkghadfjklg vote looks like lazy sheeping.

I'd like to hear that reason by the way.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, I missed all the other stuff I just saw in your ISO. Just saw "after reread, rajdjsafkghadfjkg is better, vote". My bad.

[Kmd4390]

Magna, I'll be able to tell you later if charter is scum. Lurking isn't an alignment tell for him though. He just doesn't do it strategically. I've played as his scumbuddy a few times I think. I know I've seen him as both scum and town quite a bit. Right now, I see town charter. That's only based one 1 or 2 content posts though, so it could change. I guarantee I will have a strong read on charter one way or the other before day 1 is over. He will probably have a strong read on me too lol

[Kmd4390]

Rajjkdghafjksghdfj, when I'm scum, I don't go for what's easy. I either convince myself that there is another scum team or that I am town and work from there. Maybe that's why no one ever suspects me when I'm scum, but that's not the point lol. Reap didn't want our massive QT posted in Harry Potter, so Magna (our scumbuddy in that game) will have to remind me whether we thought there was another scum group in that game. I think we did.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, Magna can confirm this if he still has the link. My first post in the QT for Harry Potter mafia says that our numbers imply other anti-town roles.

Looks like we had rajdsjkafhjkghadfj pegged as a power role though. Gonna keep reading, but I definitely remember something legit being there.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, looks like I was on rajjdsxfhadsjkf through the early part of Harry Potter without realizing it too much. Just little nuisances about his play. THEN we noticed he was probably a power role. Looks like it wasn't as legit as I thought I remembered it being except in the VERY early stages of the game. I did list him as scum before his softclaim that we picked up on, but the strong attack didn't come until later.

[Kmd4390]

Charter, Magna's interaction with Kat at the beginning of the game looks town. I don't remember what I saw on Haschel that looked town. Maybe it was his posts going after Untrod. It all went downhill anyway though.

And no, not scum here.

----------------

Magna, when I said "legit", I meant I thought there was actual scummy stuff in rajskdghjsadkl's posts in Harry Potter Mafia. I don't feel like doing the research to see what my case was. Just like how FakeGod was legitobvtown in that game.

-----------------

I don't like LMP's Magna vote. That whole wagon reaks to begin with.

{Katsuki, MacavityLock, charter, rajrhcpfreak, peanutman, LMP} contains some scum. I'm leaning three.

----------------

Magna, I was hoping Haschel would elaborate on his vote. Doesn't look like we'll be getting that.

---------------

Rajjdsafhdsajkfadskf, again, your perception of your play being the "same" doesn't mean shit for a couple of reasons:
1) My perception, and Magna's, aren't necessarily going to match yours. Assuming it will is downright wrong.
2) If you are scum, you'll WANT to mirror your town play. So, obviously, you'd want us to see your play as being the same as a game where you were town.

-----------------

Unvote Haschel, Vote rajkldsfjdsk;lafjasklf;jadskfl

[Kmd4390]

LMP, who am I buddying?

-------------

Untrod, when I'm scum, I actually don't pay any attention to who my buddies are voting when I lay down my own vote.

And you seem to have failed to notice that I've had a town read on Magna since my first post. You may have been able to push that point if I had JUST decided Magna was town out of nowhere.

-------------

Peanut, how the hell do you see a scumslip in that post? And how'd the rajjdsaklgjadfk;lg reread go last night?

And the whole "overanalyzing RVS" thing is bull. The RVS happens at the very beginning of the game when your Role PM is fresh on your mind. You've seen it more recently than any other point in the game unless you go look at it again and you've probably just taken the closest look at it that you will throughout the game. If your Role PM is going to effect your posting, the beginning of the game, aka RVS, is when it will be most clear. So yeah, analyzing the RVS closely isn't such a bad idea.

------------

rajkdsfafkadls/Peanut/bv/Tally scum team anyone?

[Kmd4390]

Wait. LMP might be scum instead of Tally.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, looks like nothing has changed here.

[Kmd4390]

Could everyone at least cast a vote so we know where we're at

Vote rajjghdfjklsghdfjklskgdfklsgjdfsjkl

[Kmd4390]

Raj: WHY would you claim when you won't even answer peoples' questions?
This game is really frustrating.

He's scum who is anxious to fakeclaim. Must have a good one.

. . . Dammit Magna for beating me to this!

-----------------

Magna, Mac's whole meta thing actually oozes with townie goodness. I know the frustration of having reliable tells that I can't share (see my town read on BV in Big Brother Mafia because of something Saber had said/done in other game(s) before BV replaced him).

[Kmd4390]

Let's see. When do I have time to post content.. I'm gonna try for a late night as soon as possible. Sorry for recent inactivity. Working mad hours for holidays, girlfriend is around now, started a pool league, and been sick.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, it's 3 AM, but I did say it would be a late night when I got around to this.

------------

Charter, any reasons for your assertions that Magna/BV/Me is scum and rajkdslgal;gjka is town?

------------

Mac, dunno. Can't recall a time I've seen it used.

-------------

I agree with Talitha on Bv-Rajjdhgafdkgka. The hesitance to vote, followed by a vote and unvote could definitely be a scumbuddy-tell.

-------------

Magna, maybe it's not an "ongoing game" issue. There are other possilities, which I have also experienced. For example, I have a list of players with specific tells that apply to only those players and are extremely reliable (off the top of my head Empking, SensFan, and Charter), but I'd never share them because then they'd become aware of those tells. I don't know what it is. I'm not Mac. Either way, it looks like town in that frustrating situation.

--------------

Rajjdkasllfadsljfk, I've played a total of ONE GAME with you. I'm not some sort of Rajfdsjklf;jadsReadingExpert. My read on you is that you are scum. I don't know your meta. I know how you played one game before this. I'm judging you on this game. You are scummy in this game.

I like the new-improved peanutman

Really? He got a Town Role PM now? Interesting change.

-----------------

Charter, won't really know without a flip.

Rajkdafjadsf flips scum:
-Untrod still could go either way. Town who liked the case and sheeped or scum bussing. Hard to tell because Untrod doesn't seem like much of a sheep, but the Magna lynch was just as alive as the Rajdsjfhsadj one at the time. I'd probably lean towards town.
-Bv is obvscumbuddy. I had no idea he suspected him until his post that said he can't grasp the case which he says seems "thin", yet he can go for the wagon, but won't vote because he thinks it's L-1.

Rajjkadsfdklsf flips town:
-Untrod can be town who liked the case and sheeped or scum who wanted to push Rajdkl;sfdsfadfs instead of Magna. Town is more likely, but Untrodscum might mean I need to rethink Magna in this case.
-Bv is probably just town who was just feeling like a lazy sheep for some reason, but didn't want to rush.

-----------------

Kat, where are you and your hammer?

[Kmd4390]

Talitha, if Peanut was lurking scum, why would The Fonz have to carry the exact same strategy?

Also, you said it:

I could see BV as scum, but can't see why this would mean Raj is town. Decent chance he's bussing IMO.

Where's the scums?
Talitha, Haschel Cedricson, MagnaofIllusion, Kmd4390, Untrod Tripod, bv310, Katsuki

Vote Untrod

for now.

[Kmd4390]

Talitha, if Peanut was lurking scum, why would The Fonz have to carry the exact same strategy?

Um, he wouldn't. Are you suggesting that I should have formed a firm opinion on Peanut's alignment from his 5 posts and not be able to change that opinion based on The Fonz's greater number of posts? You're crazy. Actually, going over my iso I don't even think I ever articulated my mild suspicion of peanutman. So what the heck are you on about??

Well, if your suspicion of peanut was on some mild thing in Peanut's posts or something, I could see that. But you just said you thought he was lurker scum. If Peanut chose to lurk because he was scum, why does anything The Fonz has done make Peanut's lurking any less of a scum tell?

[Kmd4390]

Kmd:
1. Not all lurkers are scum but my philosophy is that they deserve suspicion because it's harder to catch them when they're not posting.
2. The lurker in question flaked, therefore it becomes more likely he was just busy and less indicative of his alignment.

Ok.

[Kmd4390]

I'll make a real post when I can. Maybe late tonight (around 4 am EST?)

[Kmd4390]

Sorry guys, I've been having trouble getting myself interested in this game.

----------------

LMP, I don't think it's any kind of new info that Untrod's "scum list" in his . . . first post . . . was made up on the spot. My point wasn't that he is scummy for just kind of throwing names around. It was that Charter's name seemed to come from nowhere and the others didn't. I thought it may have been a connection, but I believe I was wrong.

----------------

Hold up.

Talitha.

You suspected Peanut. The Fonz replaces and the suspicion is gone. Now Jahudo comes in for BV and because he agrees with your stuff, you "like" him and vote LMP? This just looks too contrived for my taste.

----------------

Charter, that's your case? Really? That's it?

-----------------

Magna, I don't like either the LMP lynch or the Kat lynch.

----------------

Gotta go, but

Unvote, Vote Tally

to reflect my thoughts.

[Kmd4390]

Magna, Charter's case was:

Why everyone should vote Kmd:

Doesn't give any reason for voting Raj, but all he talks about is Raj being scum. Raj calls him out for citing his list as his reason for voting him, Kmd claims he didn't (even though he quotes his list just on top of his vote for Raj). He actually spends more time talking about how he caught Raj in another game, but gives no reasons Raj is scum in this game.

Kmd also spends quite a bit of time explaining to us how he plays as scum (118, 163). I'm sure everyone else found it as helpful as I did.

Charter is smart enough to know that a list isn't a reason to vote. A list is just a way to show where you stand. I quoted the list to show that I was just voting a read from before. I was trying the whole early Day 1, just vote from the background thing that Glork and a few others have done in the past, but I couldn't stick to it. So I just quoted my earlier scum/town reads and showed that I was switching from one scum read to another. Rajjksldfjkslf;jadskf responded with OMGUS attacks on me and that post where he says Magna and I should know he's town because we've seen him as town before. This was the scummiest thing Rajkdlfjadskfjask said, which is why I was happy with my vote. The whole list thing comes in when Rajjdkfljasdklfjads says it was my reasoning. My response was that I hadn't posted any reasoning. Charter is trying to say that because I quoted my list when I voted, my list must have been my reasoning (obviously, the list was just my early reads).

The reason we went on about the other game is because that's what Rajdklsgjafkl;s's defense was. I was basically posting a rebuttal to his defense, which Charter phrases as " spends more time talking about how he caught Raj in another game". No, I was showing that Rajsdsafsd's defense was garbage.

The real nail in Rajdsjkfdsakfj's coffin was when he wanted to claim rather than continue defending himself. It REALLY looked like scum wanting to fakeclaim. Then he comes out with vanilla and we (Magna and myself) look like dumbasses for believing that one.

But yeah, pretty much, the whole expecting me to know his meta inside and out from one game was the thing that I really misread from Rajdskfdjsakf. So I pushed what turned out to be a mislynch. My bad. It happens. I still think my reasoning was good even though it turned out to be wrong.

The other part, uh, I don't understand how sharing some of my scum play is scummy.

On Kat, I happen to have a town read. I don't remember why, but it was something early in the game. If I had to pick one of the two wagons, it would be LMP simply because I'd rather lynch a claimed vanilla than force one of my town reads to claim.

----------------

I'd vote LMP now, but I think that would be hammer and I think the game would benefit from hearing Kat's input before we lynch.

[Kmd4390]

I was getting tempted to hammer LMP to avoid forcing one of my town reads to claim considering it seems like it has to be one of the two today...

[Kmd4390]

Vote LMP

[Kmd4390]

The only reason I wasn't voting him was because it would be a hammer and we were waiting for Kat's input first. I want my vote to reflect what I think, and that's that a LMP lynch beats a Kat lynch. Also, this may be a stretch, but if we got someone willing to lynch LMP before Kat could claim, we'd lynch a vanilla rather than forcing my town read to claim.

[Kmd4390]

Far too tired to catch up. I know from skimming that I was asked why I chose LMP over Kat. I had town reads on both and LMP claimed vanilla. Kat had yet to claim. Why force one town read to claim when another has claimed vanilla and it's one or the other.

Jahudo, I haven't had the time to make a hard push on anyone. And for the Kat thing, same answer.

Tuesday night, I'll be in a hotel with my girlfriend's laptop. If she doesn't mind being ignored long enough for me to catch up, I'll have a decent post.

[Kmd4390]

Same thing I've said all along still applies. I need to be awake enough at 3 or 4 am before I can catch up. I've never been replaced and don't plan on it ever happening, kdub.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I don't want to go into detail on everything before a massclaim, so quick suspicions and that's it. If anyone wants more, lemme know.

Scummiest first:
Talitha- Scum, as previously stated.
The Fonz peanutman - I still say scum based on Peanut's play mostly
charter - He's actually leaning toward what my scum meta on him is. It's a slight lean though. Not a top suspect, but up there.
Haschel Cedricson - No strong read one way or the other.
Untrod Tripod - I've actually been leaning more and more town as the game has gone on even though I thought he was scum earlier.
Jahudo bv310 - Slight town read. I always think Jahudo is town though.
MacavityLock - Leaning town.
MagnaofIllusion - Town based on Day 1.
Kmd4390- Der. Town.

If I had to guess the scums, Tally/Fonz/Charter and one of Haschel/Untrod/Jahudo. Mac and Magna are my strongest town reads.

[Kmd4390]

Bump?

[Kmd4390]

Estelle Costanza, VT.

Haschel can go next.

[Kmd4390]

If scum have fakeclaims, it doesn't make sense not to use them. The only possibilities I can come up with are:
1) one of the fakeclaims was such a minor character that no one would believe it, so haschelscum chose newman and was countered by jahudotown
2) hascheltown claimed his role a jahudoscum countered a bad claim to get a mislynch
3) haschelscum and jahudoscum decided to claim the same character to "confirm" one of them and ride to endgame.

1 is possible, but it just seems like a poor play on haschel's part. 2 makes sense considering 4 scum with 9 players left. 3 seems too pointless right now with scum having a numbers advantage.

I actually think a jahudo lynch sounds better than one on haschel.

[Kmd4390]

2) hascheltown claimed his role a jahudoscum countered a bad claim to get a mislynch

How are you separating bad from scum in this case?

Scum is Option 3.

[Kmd4390]

Fonz is trying to find a reason to vote haschel and is voting untrod. Obvjahudobuddy.

[Kmd4390]

2) hascheltown claimed his role a jahudoscum countered a bad claim to get a mislynch

How are you separating bad from scum in this case?

Scum is Option 3.

I mean how can you or anyone besides myself tell Haschel gave a bad claim and not a scum fake claim?

That is why I listed three options.

UT's point about Haschel saying "night" would be a horrible reason for hypo-scum to think they could attack the claim itself. Its like saying villager instead of vanilla townie, everyone knows what is intended because its in the OP. Scum are aware of the OP. So the tell is not on one's alignment but how closely they are paying attention to the flavor of the game.

Or someone creating a fakeclaim who subconsciously thinks "I'll say that I do this every night" and forgets that it needs to be changed due to the fact that this game is nightless. I dunno. I can see both sides of this one though. The same "slip" is just as possible with a town player who is simply claiming his role and forgot to make the change in his mind. I'm basically not using it as a tell one way or the other because it can just as easily go either way.

Erm, hello? The point of the vote was to prove I can't vote. Why wouldn't I 'vote' Untrod, when if he's telling the truth it can't affect him? Are you paying any attention at all? I could have self-voted, it would have achieved the same thing.

My bad, forgot about that. The fact that you claim to see the point on Jahudo, but still want to find a way to make the case on Haschel work still stands though.

KMD said #2 makes sense and he prefers my lynch. I am asking him why HC's claim looks bad town and not bad scum.

Yeah, the claim itself is null IMO.

[Kmd4390]

Charter, I thought id made it clear that there was more to the fonz thing than the vote, but looking back at my post I guess I didn't.

Fonz, I just can't see any situation where haschel is scum with a fakeclaim given to him, who allowed a town jahudo to counterclaim him. I don't see that at all. Jahudo is scum in every theory I can come up with.

vote jahudo