Mini 1096 - Seinfeld Mafia (Game Over)

[Untrod Tripod]

Vote: Untrod Tripod

. He knows why.

....what?

vote LMP

. Obvscum.

[Untrod Tripod]

Katsuki, MoI, LMP and charter are scum. calling it now.

[Untrod Tripod]

obviously I'm bussing all three of my scumbuddies. The trick is figuring out which one is the townie. GUESS WE'LL HAVE TO LYNCH ALL OF THEM TO FIND OUT. EVERYONE JUMP ON THE LMP WAGON NAO

[Untrod Tripod]

I know who needs wagoning. It's Magna! VOTE: Magna

now this is a wagon I can get behind.

unvote LMP, vote Magnaface

[Untrod Tripod]

LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH!

Unvote
Vote: Magna

Here's a nice change of pace for you Magna, you can be lynched D1 instead of NK'ed N1!

This just goes towards supporting my wild stab at LMP being scum

[Untrod Tripod]

Katsuki is bussing LMP for bussing

[Untrod Tripod]

This just goes towards supporting my wild stab at LMP being scum

Hey look … scum motivation sighted!!

UNVOTE: Charter
VOTE: Untrod

This is a good post. Everybody should reread it.

You understand that I was just throwing around baseless accusations to get us out of RVS, right? It's called fishing for a response. MoI's response looks both pro-town and proactive to me. I've never seen a player of MoI's caliber do any kind of OMGUS on D1 as scum out of fear they'll get voted for it, so I'm going to assume on that basis that he is town for now.

unvote Magnaface

Macavity's vote looks like town-flavored bandwagoning to me, whereas charter's looks like scum trying to hop on a seemingly random bandwagon to look proactive.

vote charter

[Untrod Tripod]

sorry all, I've had an unexpected limited access.

Will get a decent post up tonight, just wanted to let you know I'm here.

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm a little surprised by the amount of hand-wringing that's happening over my OBVIOUSLY NOT SERIOUS "scum list" that was ON PAGE 1. Seriously guys. I named 1/3 of the player list and proceeded to try to bandwagon ourselves out of RVS. That was it. It seems to have worked, too. LMP's tunneling on me is really weird. Seriously dude, why do you think that my list was based on anything seriously. I announced in that post my willingness to bandwagon four people on the basis of their "obviously" scumminess. Then I voted for some of them. We got some reactions and now we're solidly out of RVS. MoI and charter reacted pretty null or townish to the accusations, but LMP's continuing to call my "list" is really weird. I can't see any pro-town reason to push me that hard on that basis. It looks to me like he's trying to appear like he's scumhunting by attacking an RVS vote that could possibly be construed as bussing (especially if one of my "picks" flips scum later). Also he's scum.

I'm going to say this one more time: my list was just a group of players to push to get us out of RVS. There was no reasoning behind it. Stop grasping at straws.

vote LMP

[Untrod Tripod]

unvote LMP

Charter, Magna's interaction with Kat at the beginning of the game looks town.

No it doesn't. At best it's null.

I don't like LMP's Magna vote. That whole wagon reaks to begin with.

{Katsuki, MacavityLock, charter, rajrhcpfreak, peanutman, LMP} contains some scum. I'm leaning three.

Only an extremely stupid mafia would put three players on a D1 lynch. Never bet on a stupid mafia. That quote is scummy scummy scummy. If you're mafia, you're distancing from mafia player(s) on that wagon and trying to gain towncred by "predicting" Magna's alignment. Yelling about a probable mislynch of a controversial slot is a great way to gain towncred when you're mafia, and it looks to me like you're doing that. We need to avoid mislynches at all costs

F1) This game has a single mafia faction with 4 players - Jerry, George, Elaine, and Kramer. There may or may not be any third-party roles.

We'll be down to 7:4 if we mislynch. There's no deadlines, so let's take this lynch carefully. I don't think that the information we gain from a Magna mislynch currently outweighs the advantage it affords the mafia. Currently, they're 4 of the 7 votes needed to lynch, we don't want that advantage to become more pronounced.

____________________________________________

tl;dr:
- /picks up prod
- LMP doesn't interest me as much now
- I don't think Magna's scum
- Kmd is starting to ping my scumdar

[Untrod Tripod]

/unprod

Not much has happened. Gotta agree with Tally on the claiming thing. D1 claiming is not always a good plan when you're town. Scum have no reason to fear getting scum killed at night, so they're more likely to ask for/be willing to claim.

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm sold.

vote raj

[Untrod Tripod]

Just whelming Magna?Guess that's still better than underwhelming.

Anyway, I've been trying to grasp the case on Raj. So far, what I've seen is pretty thin, but I really don't like his responses to the case. I still think Charter needs more pressure, but I can support a Raj wagon too. I'd vote, but I'm pretty sure he's at L-1.

WISHY WASHY WISHY WASHY WISHY WASHY WISHY WASHY MAKE IT OK FOR ME TO HAMMER GUIZE SO IT WON'T BE SCUMMY ANYMORE.

ftfy

[Untrod Tripod]

/unprodded

I want raj to answer Magna's question about how many scum are on his wagon. After that, I'm not seeing how much useful information we can claim to have with a live raj. Sorry, raj, but someone has to get lynched day one, and odds are it's going to be a town player. We'll learn a lot from raj's lynch and we can go from there. At this point I think that any wagon we can build will be just as, if not more, based on conjecture and posturing as the raj wagon is. We may as well lynch him and get it over with so we can move on.

[Untrod Tripod]

oh, and for the record I'm not saying that we should lynch a townsperson on purpose. I don't believe raj's claim. I'm just apologizing to him if I'm wrong.

[Untrod Tripod]

Not sure what to think anymore. Fine with either MOI, LMP or

rajr lynch

.

Katsuki, if you're fine with a rajr lynch, then DROP THE FUCKING HAMMER. If you think that lynch is a good plan, then make it happen. Do it. By saying you like the lynch when he's at L-1 and then NOT dropping the hammer, you're trying to say he's a decent lynch but not actually participate. You know, kind of like if he was your scum buddy and you want to bus him without actually hammering.

I see no convincing reason why LMP is a better lynch than raj. All we are going to do is bat around "information" that's really nothing more than personal opinion on playstyle until the day ends. It's D1 guys. Unless we have a daycop or want to massclaim, we're not going to have a super well-informed lynch. Better at this point to get some info and stop letting scum feed us misinformation (like that some players are "extremely town" or "extremely scum").

[Untrod Tripod]

vote MagnaOfIllusion

no reason for him to be *that* pissed about a townie lynch if he was actually a town member. I think he's mafia trying to earn towncred by being "mad" about a town lynch.

[Untrod Tripod]

Still liking my vote.

that one you never provided any backing for?

[Untrod Tripod]

I had considered posting all of LMP's posts where he mentions me, but frankly the rest of you can do that ISO yourselves. The "case" he refers to on me held absolutely no water, and the fact that he pushed it until about half of the game said "WOW THAT'S SUPER SCUMMY VOTE LMP" and then did a random about-face on it is super suspicious.

His "deciding" I'm not scum smacks more of being afraid of getting lynched than actually changing his read.

I'm not 100% positive he's scum, but I'm 95% sure and that's good enough for me for D1

unvote MoI, vote LMP

[Untrod Tripod]

also before anyone calls me on it, yeah I know it's D2, mistype

[Untrod Tripod]

Well, I can accept the breadcrumb, but I don't think it proves anything about alignment.

Other Notes About Setup
F1) This game has a single mafia faction with 4 players - Jerry, George, Elaine, and Kramer. There may or may not be any third-party roles.

If you believe the claim, then you think he's either third party or town. Why do you think he's third party?

[Untrod Tripod]

Where the hell do you get 'I believe the claim' from? I accept that he breadcrumbed Jacopo Peterman, that doesn't mean he actually IS Jacopo Peterman. Hint: scum don't usually claim their own name.

For some reason, I read "accept the breadcrumb" as meaning "believe the breadcrumb". Evidently that's not what you meant. Fair enough.

[Untrod Tripod]

I can see a scum team of either Katsuki/MoI or Katsuki/Talitha right now.

I think a Katsuki flip makes tomorrow's move obvious. I'm going to lay off LMP for right now, but he's still on my scumdar. I don't think his lynch provides us with as much info as Katsuki's.

unvote LMP

I'm willing to hammer Katsuki. Want to hear his claim.

[Untrod Tripod]

Katsuki: If you don't make some kind of post in the next 36ish hours, you're getting hammered.

[Untrod Tripod]

Vote LMP

Why? You're putting me in the uncomfortable position of kinda wanting to hammer LMP more than Katsuki

[Untrod Tripod]

vote LMP

hammer like a motherfucking boss

[Untrod Tripod]

As for D1, I still think MOI. Though in my mind, MOI and LMP were both pretty much even.

Wow... that UT hammer.
Oh hi there nice of you to pop up MOI.

Vote: MOI

Fine with either a MOI or UT lynch.

Will re-analyze game sometime.

Interesting to note that the scum most likely have no NK (unless they got prevented consecutive nights).

Easy to criticize a mislynch after the fact. Which is funny, because you were saying LMP was an equal scum candidate to MoI after your "reread"

vote Katsuki

dude is so scum

[Untrod Tripod]

picks up prod

I'm kind of embarrassed about pushing two mislynches. Will have to do a careful reread today

[Untrod Tripod]

As far as theory discussion about town PRs and scumkills goes: let's not forgot that Seinfeld was a show that purported to be "about nothing". It would make a lot of sense, themewise if scum had no kills and all of the town PRs to be largely useless (as Magna softclaimed)

Plus my role is far from useful based on what I perceive the set-up to be.

The points made about Jahudo are correct I think, and his attempts to increase the chance for a mislynch by trying to convince people that this is MYLO are troubling. Hmm...

[Untrod Tripod]

The following players need to make their suspicions know in their next post

–

Haschel, Untrod, and KMD.

--

As for the mass-claim I would suggest that once all suspicions are on record that Untrod starts the process and we Popcorn from there. Thoughts?

I'm all for the mass-claim. Do you want to do an ability claim with it, or just a name-claim?

For my scum-reads, I feel that Jahudo, Herschel and Magnaface all warrant suspicion. Wait, you're saying, Magnaface and Jahudo have been arguing! Right, it feels scum vs. scum to me. I feel like the final scum could be in the other mega-lurkers.

I'd extremely hard for me to get reads in this game without nightkills and a general (visible) lack of abilities.

More later, unless you want to start the roleclaiming now

[Untrod Tripod]

Yes, waiting on UT and popcorn.

I am Jackie Chiles, town vote manipulator. I have two one-shot abilities. One is a vote block (being shocked and chagrined, mortified and stupified, according to my role pm) and one is a one-shot proxy double vote (my opening statement, according to my role pm).

My double vote gives another player two votes and my vote block takes away someone's vote for the rest of the day. Both abilities change the voting threshold as if we were adding or subtracting another player.


Take it away MacavityLock.

[Untrod Tripod]

Newman, weak cop. Each night I can check if somebody is Jerry or not. LMP, UT, and Jahudo are not Jerry.

Jahudo next.

There are no nights.

[Untrod Tripod]

I know we're not supposed to vote until the massclaim is over, but unless someone claims "I am scum", I'm voting HC. Just for the record.

Carry on.

[Untrod Tripod]

Newman, weak cop. Each night I can check if somebody is Jerry or not. LMP, UT, and Jahudo are not Jerry.

Jahudo next.

There are no nights.

I know there are no nights, but I get the result at the end of the day, so that seemed like the easiest way to phrase it.

That is not at all the same thing.

[Untrod Tripod]

Untrod specifically said he was a Town Vote Manipulator. My role did not say Town Watcher. This bears consideration down the line.

Since I was the first person to claim, I decided to claim absolutely everything contained in my role PM to get the claims started off right.

Ok UT is targeting someone.

That doesn't prove your alignment, but it at least proves your ability.

For Magna, my ability went through at 11:07 am PST.

WHY HC IS LYING SCUM:
-HC and I claim to have the same character name.
-HC claims he is a cop, I claim I am a tracker with a mailman flavor in my role PM. Newman is a mailman on the TV show, not a cop.

My ability is called

Nemesis

.

Your argument is ridiculous. Newman is a mailman on the show, not a tracker.

See, I can make stupid non sequitors too. You may as well counterclaim the others with "Morty is a dad on the TV show, not a neighborizer", or "Jackie Chiles is a lawyer, not a vote manipulator.

Fonz, I pretty much agree with you. I'm thinking there's a solid chance that Jahudo-scum saw his scum-buddy Haschel floundering and decided to try to counter-claim to get himself semi-confirmed.

Except I wasn't floundering. UT's argument is equally ridiculous. Let's take a look at the rules again:

End of Day actions can be submitted at any time, but will only resolve at the end of the day.

I get my results during the time between days. It may not be a technical "night" but it functions exactly the same as one in terms of me finding things out. UT finding it scummy to refer to the time between days as a night is grasping towards straws.

Blah blah blah scummy pontification blah blah blah. Listen, there's a pretty specific etiquette to massclaims. You had a lot of time to think about what you were going to claim, it's not like someone phoned you up and said "HEY, CLAIM, TELL US WHAT YOUR ABILITY IS" and you had to claim off the cuff.

You claimed you had a "night" ability in a game with no nights. Funny that you can bother to understand the difference now that someone called you on a false claim. Lying is scummy. End of story. Unless you can prove anything, you've made the scummy claim here.

Plus, IMO in this game, tracker makes a lot more sense than cop. Just saying.

As for your last comment, my activity level is cyclical, and apparently right now I'm at the top of the cycle. You of all the players in here should know this.

Loldongs. Make excuses all you want, but you weren't participating. I don't care.

[Untrod Tripod]

@Magna: When you said you received no information on anyone targeting LMP, did you get a PM from the mod or not? Because the way my role works I wouldn't know if I was roleblocked or not.

No PM from the Mod at all, except PMs confirming that he has received my action and answering related questions.

And I have received nothing today regarding anyone targetting Fonz.

That doesn't make me happy.

I think Fonz should try to cast a vote.

[Untrod Tripod]

@Untrod – Why specifically did you choose to use the Minus vote version of your Power on Fonz? He wasn’t one of your suspicions in ISO 29 thus I assume you have a Town read on him.

Being as how difficult it is this game to get a solid/reliable read on anyone, I'd rather waste the vote block than use it on a town player in a mylo situation. I had to choose one of my abilities to burn, so I went with that one. If we prove Jahudo/Herchel's ability today by lynching the right player, I will know I can use my doublevote on the confirmed player.

[Untrod Tripod]

Charter, I thought id made it clear that there was more to the fonz thing than the vote, but looking back at my post I guess I didn't.

Fonz, I just can't see any situation where haschel is scum with a fakeclaim given to him, who allowed a town jahudo to counterclaim him. I don't see that at all. Jahudo is scum in every theory I can come up with.

vote jahudo

Unless Jahudo made an extremely good bluff, he has a tracker ability.

[Untrod Tripod]

KMD has outed himself as lazy scum coasting for an easy win.

Agreed

If we lynch HC today and if flips town, KMD is the most obvious buddy. Not even pretending to consider situations.

You know if HC flips town we're going to lose the game. Right?

[Untrod Tripod]

1. He’s a Town Tracker.
2. He’s a Scum Tracker
3. He’s not a Tracker but made a very good bluff.
4. He’s not a Tracker but you are scum together so he knew it was safe to claim.

1. I find it likely
2. How possibru is a scum tracker? I suppose it's somewhat possibru, but him being scum means that
> a. have both a scum tracker and a town tracker
> b. have HC and Jahudo as scum together
3. Extremely unlikely
4. No.

I guess if he's a scum tracker it means that HC might not be lying? Or HC and Jahudo are scum together. I can see a lot more scenarios where HC is the correct lynch than I can see Jahudo being the correct lynch. But the issue is that it's still quite possible that Jahudo is scum. I'll have to think about it more. That makes my head hurt

[Untrod Tripod]

We just lost the game didn't we

[Untrod Tripod]

vote HC

if I can

[Untrod Tripod]

that sucks dick

I had tal and HC tagged as scum in my personal list, but I totally thought Fonz was town.

gj scum. you owned this game.

[Untrod Tripod]

[Untrod Tripod]

I really wish I had had a really good reason for why the "each night" thing was a good reason to vote HC. I knew it was, I just couldn't explain it