Mini 1080 -- txtMafia -- Game OVER

[chamber]

@Nobody Special:

A role pm would also be nice.

[chamber]

The lack of quotes make this game incredibly difficult to parse.

[chamber]

Just saw the deadline, any chance on getting an extension because of us replacements? (still catching up, about halfway now)

[chamber]

Today's dead to catch-up for me, that leaves 2 more, too few to really effect the game before deadline. And I have no idea on the other replacements timetables.

[chamber]

Finished my first read threw. Want to reread before I make definitive claims but I'm not liking the tasky wagon right now, kunk is likely better.

UnvoteVoteKunk

[chamber]

VOTE: AV

I don't really like AV either, but until the deadline is extended you might want to choose one of the wagons. Same to tasky.

[chamber]

@VI:

I'll vote for AV if you will. This close to deadline I just don't want my vote to not be on a real candidate.

[chamber]

@fonz

You've asked VI questions a couple times now but none of me and Kast (except for refuting his claims about you) Why?

[chamber]

Vi, what do you think of Herod? I ask because i get bad vibes, but can't place them.

[chamber]

@Herod:

I like the kunk wagon better than a rayfrost wagon right now, I still prefer an AV wagon to both if its viable.

[chamber]

^Whats scummy about that?

[chamber]

@kunk:

Fonz was actively pressuring cay when tasky moved his vote, the only thing he'd said recently with regards to task was about his drop in activity.

[chamber]

^I can manage full sentences, you can too.

[chamber]

@Fonz:

Can you explain what you mean by cynical in 796?

[chamber]

^So, its more scummy cause he's hiding his OMGUS as a real vote? yaaaaaaeh. ok.

[chamber]

^You also have being scummy in common.

[chamber]

@Fonz

No. There is no evidence that he 'came up with it' any later than his vote, just that he didn't post it till much later. Humans are terrible with %'s.

[chamber]

With the deadline extension :

Unvote Vote AV

[chamber]

Ray, who the hell is sky?

tasky.

[chamber]

Town -> AH, Fish, Equi, RF, Hdotus, sky, TF, kunk, Vi, Kast, AV. <- Scum Trying to give replacements a chance to make up for those they replaced though.

[chamber]

VI and kast should be reversed* I found korts content amazingly scummy.

[chamber]

@VI:

If you look at my list fonz

is

in my top half but in 811 I was 80% fishing for a reaction
Reading this game sucks when you arent around for the post bursts

[chamber]

@VI

Didn't yield anything that looks useful now, maybe after I see AVs flip. Still trying to proccess the burst from earlier.

[chamber]

@VI:

in 758 you briefly mentioned AV, this is the only person you've shown any interest in other than RF (and maybe AH?)
Who do else you currently find scummy?

[chamber]

@VI:

Is it typical for you to vote without providing reasoning immediately? Do you think RF is the worst coaster in this game?

[chamber]

@VI:

The many issues with this mechanic should have been obvious before you replaced in yet you did so anyway because _______?

[chamber]

Your 1071 got cut off, do you mind repeating yourself?

[chamber]

Hey guys, we should finish wagonning AV so that we have time to run up someone else if he has a great claim.

[chamber]

Hes obviously stealing my reads in an attempt to buddy me.

[chamber]

Good thing being comical was only half of that posts intent.

[chamber]

How about giving some opinions instead of just regurgitating facts.

[chamber]

Lol says Chamber who hasn't given opinions on why I'm scummy at all. Nice avoidance of the direct question scum (opinion enough for you?)

I

Truncated. ~~NS

[chamber]

^oops slight distracted and quoted without thinking.
I haven't avoided giving opinions. I've avoided giving reasons completely different things.

[chamber]

You're still confusing opinions and reasoning. I've made it clear who I find scummy you have not. You just made like 20 posts that said absolutely nothing.

[chamber]

^Your post is so ridiculous you actually have me at a loss for words.

[chamber]

@VI

I've always thought I was reasonable to argue with :sadface: I just think md stuff should be argued in md.

[chamber]

@Kunk

As it stands you are getting lynched come deadline so come in here and claim or something, I know you've been active in the game you are modding.

[chamber]

I knew that was the only game we played together. I don't remember many details other than being completely wrong though. *goes to reread*

[chamber]

I think I was so sure about you in that game because I had jailed you and then there was only 1 kill, I didn't think they'd try and kill you.

[chamber]

SK with double kill was completely unforeseen. Its been a while though so I could easily be misremembering.

[chamber]

I understand that its in the past. I was just trying to explain that having what I think is role based info likely does make me not worth arguing with.

[chamber]

@VI

You unvoted AV to push kunk, hes now claimed, is there a reason you aren't voting him? Or putting your vote somewhere else?

[chamber]

Yeah at this point k* is getting lynched, which although I don't find ideal is acceptable. I should be around to hammer before deadline if someone else isn't.

[chamber]

Unvote Vote K*

[chamber]

Vote: AV

AV: Are you a cop?

[chamber]

AVs given off about 10 million cop tells, so if he says he is I'll move on, otherwise he's still scummy as all hell.

[chamber]

If you are town I've already put a bulls-eye on your back for the scum, you may as well just come out and claim cop/non cop.

[chamber]

His scum tells outweigh the cop ones. And the cop ones were fairly blatant, I don't see scum missing them for much longer if he is a town cop.

[chamber]

Mafia have ~3 people to spot stuff, I generally assume a competent mafia team will notice anything I notice as town, if not

as

fast.

[chamber]

@kast

If AV is scum then VI looks bad yes, if AV is cop VI just saw what I saw and is almost surely town.

[chamber]

@herod

1310 Strongly implies an innocent result if AV is a town cop. If he had a guilty on me he'd be pressuring for my reads on other players not on himself.

[chamber]

^innocent result on someone other than me in case that wasn't clear.

[chamber]

@VI

I believe I actually claimed the exact opposite thing (innocent on someone else) and explained why.

[chamber]

@VI 1390

I never claimed he had a guilty on me, him having any investigation on me is inconsistent with his play.

[chamber]

He explicitly states that he wants me to give a case so that he can get a read one me, would someone with either investigation result on me do that?

[chamber]

The fact that he's pressuring me suggests the he doesn't have a guilty elsewhere though, hence an innocent result on someone who's not me should he be a cop.

[chamber]

@VI

If you got it why did you persist in being misleading in 1390?

[chamber]

Thoughts haven't really changed much since I last stated them. Ray is slightly town, kast is likely who I'm voting if AV claims cop.

[chamber]

@AV

If you are a cop, the scum already know, just confirm it for the rest of us. If you are scum I'm not letting you get away with that soft claim VI pointed at

[chamber]

Thanks giving already ate a lot of this days time. If you are town you should know we don't need to waste more getting you out of the way.

[chamber]

^Wrong thread?

[chamber]

I've said cop/non-cop many times now, mostly because I'm arrogant and don't see you being a non-cop pr as town.

[chamber]

Yeah, I'm here right now too. I'll post here when I'm ready to.

[chamber]

I expect this post to be fairly long, I'm just going to cut it up at nearest full sentences that 160 characters will allow.

[chamber]

Responding to the recent attack on me for not posting right away: I was quite busy the first of the 3 days that I've now been inactive,

[chamber]

yesterday I spend my free time allotted for this game rereading. And today I'm getting a post out. I really didn't expect the non-cop claim as either alignment

[chamber]

so I didn't feel comfortable posting before I figured out what was going on/and or too much time had passed.

[chamber]

I don't understand why people are making a fuss out of WHY I thought AV was a cop, EVERYONE should have seen his blatant powerrole drunk slip.

[chamber]

As for why I thought specifically the cop; In his powerrole slip he made it seem like his claim would explain away his rolefishing,

[chamber]

ie it makes sense to rolefish about someone being a cop if you are a cop, much like VI said, but also it doesn't make sense to misread the kast/TF

[chamber]

exchange in the first place unless you were apprehensive about what was being said, IE you are a cop or are looking for the cop for some reason.

[chamber]

Now, as I've already said I really didnt expect a non-cop claim. I still think hes worth wagoning but the town as a whole doesn't appear to

[chamber]

as such I expect the mafia will deal with him if he is town. I'll come back to him if he's still alive in a couple days, I suggest everyone do the same.

[chamber]

I had previous said I'd likely be voting Kast if AV claimed cop. Now, I still find his play suspicious but a few too many people have put suspicion

[chamber]

on him recently and that makes me weary. I'm still willing to put my vote there closer to deadline but for now I think I'm going to go with

vote: RayFrost

[chamber]

Hey hero, why'd you answer that question for AV?

[chamber]

1732 is faulty. It's literally true, but misses the point.

[chamber]

There is an implicit question, he was poking a hole in AVs reasoning, why did you plug it for AV?

[chamber]

@herod

And? The person attacking should be able to spot the problem with his opponent's defence I don't understand why you didn't at least give AV the chance.

[chamber]

@AV

votes seem like a much less sinister way of showing your suspicions, I felt like too many people were laying ground work to vote kast, I never like that.

[chamber]

Yes, I am. Let the person in question deal with stuff first.

[chamber]

I always bring this up when I see it because people doing it is incredibly anti-town. I do think its at least a slight scumtell.

[chamber]

1602 doesn't feel like a deliberate laying of lynch plans (my own name being where it was also was distracting).

[chamber]

1605 was just a reference to 1602 I didn't see the need to specifically mention anything about it.

[chamber]

@AV

herod had RF @ number 2 in 1602, you said you agreed with it, but now RF was just in 'the grey haze'?

[chamber]

Can you assign percents for me, just off the top of your head to me and rayfrost, for my own comparison. Keep in mind random is likely 25% scum and 75% town.

[chamber]

.... If those don't mean the same thing the only possible meaning I can apply to the first is that of the numbers I already gave which is useless anyway. So how sure you are.

[chamber]

.... how sure really should take 25% as a base. 50% is completely wrong.

[chamber]

Just cause there are 2 options doesn't mean each is equally likely (50/50) the default is 25/75 and opinions should influence that number not 50/50.

[chamber]

25% is the only palce to put the 'I don't know' marker. Well , working from the current list, removing the dead town and yourself, 33% would be the only place.

[chamber]

No, I don't think its scummy, it is WRONG though.

[chamber]

Pretty sure the monty hall problem isn't applicable here, but I'm no math expert so I could be wrong. Thanks AV.

[chamber]

The point of my questions is that I can't believe how incredibly scummy AV is being but I'm trying REALLY hard to see him as town. REALLY hard, I sware.

[chamber]

AV's the one that linked that game. No where near worth a modkill

[chamber]

Vote:AntiHero

I don't really think he's scum but I no longer like the RF wagon and I'm not going to get a lynch threw on the people I want to. Lurker Pressure.

[chamber]

@RF

In general I agree that stating a vote is a pressure vote is a bad idea, but every situation is unique and I thought threw what I was doing here.

[chamber]

@VI

You and AV as of that post, but now fishy needs to die.

Vote: Fishy

[chamber]

Fonz, I already addressed that. If you don't like my answer then vote me for it, but don't repeat shit please.

[chamber]

^ Your reading comprehension may actually be worse than TheButtonmen's, I'm impressed by this fact.

[chamber]

No, they actually both implied that votes are more meaningful than stated suspicions

[chamber]

and therefore I should be less willing to vote someone with votes on them than someone with suspicions on them. My post explains why I disagree. Read better.

[chamber]

I'm now convinced that you didn't actually read my linked post.

[chamber]

I also don't think you read this either.

[chamber]

@1898

"suspicions" in that post was short hand for "stated suspicions" from the previous post to save characters -.-. Read better.

[chamber]

@1900:

I disagree.

@1901:

I'm not sure enough about any of my reads in this game to ignore new evidence. I'm even trying to give you and VI a chance.

[chamber]

@1913

Exclusively? No. You two do look extremely connected to me though.

[chamber]

yes to a deadline extension

I dont like either the RF or the AH wagons, but I'd hammer at deadline if need be.

[chamber]

Vote AH

I don't think he's scum but I'm not going to be back online until after deadline passes unless it gets extended. He's better than a no lynch.

[chamber]

Unvote Vote FtF

[chamber]

Same reason as before I moved it for deadline considerations?

[chamber]

1937

Honestly, I have no idea what you are getting at. TF hasn't done any of the things that VI has to implicate a connection.

[chamber]

Can you post your reads on everyone, even if only in ordered list form? Thanks.

[chamber]

@2030

Buddying and actually being a scummate are different things and have different tells?

[chamber]

Buddying: Scum gaining the favor of a town member by defending them/ agreeing with them on issues.
Scummate: Someone whos scum with you.

[chamber]

They have different signs.
AV accused TF of the first, and expected me to see the second.

[chamber]

I don't remember putting it in terms nearly that absolute.

[chamber]

"come back to him if hes alive in a couple of days" vs "If you're still alive you're scum"

[chamber]

@VI

I seem to remember calling you scum when asked a direct question by you. The linked 1933 is also in response to a question asked by you/av.

[chamber]

@VI

To me the numbers game was very relevant in helping me figure out AVs alignment.

[chamber]

@VI

I voted AH for pressure, I believe I said so in the post I voted him... If you want to know WHY I stated it was a pressure vote; I wasn't and (ctd)

[chamber]

am not in this towns good graces, and I think I've left a paper trail of thinking AH is town, which I do. If I made that vote without stating it was a pressure vote I'm pretty sure I would have been hung for it.

[chamber]

@VI

I think I've said all I'm going to re: kast, if you still think I'm scum for it after the reasons I gave I don't think id be capable of changing your mind.

[chamber]

vote I'm pretty sure I would have been hung for it. <- what will soon be cut from 2112, oops.

[chamber]

I don't think I've said why I think you're scum, but explaining what you mean by second-string would be cool. AH wasn't posting, he needed to.

[chamber]

I've thought AH was town since replacing in, I expected there to be some sort of indication of that, was too lazy to check.

[chamber]

I didn't mean to suggest you were obstinate, I've just already said why I did what I did, if that wasn't enough for you the first time it wouldn't be a second time.

[chamber]

I find you scummy independent of any connections you may have to other players. The connection to AV, another scumread of mine, just doesn't help your cause.

[chamber]

Thank you for actually making me look at number tasky, I now need more time to think.

[chamber]

numbers* I hadn't done so previously and looking at them makes it clear there is a flaw in my logic somewhere.

[chamber]

Ok. figured out where I was being an idiot, I was just mathing wrong.
VI:50%
AV:60%
VI&AV: 30%
Drop either by like 7% if the other flips town.

[chamber]

Vote VI

I don't expect this to actually be productive, but my fishy vote isn't doing anything right now either, so why not.

[chamber]

Are we sure its impossible to get a lynch threw on someone other than RF/WW? I really think both are town.

[chamber]

Im voting WW if it comes to that.

[chamber]

Strong player > Weak player.
If WW wanted his role to save him he should've claimed.

[chamber]

So guys, I can hammer nowish or not at all. Opinions?

[chamber]

Nowish it is.

Vote WW

[chamber]

kast? KAST? Well I'm bloody confused.

[chamber]

If we are going to no lynch we shouldn't popcorn first. Otherwise I'm fine with going first, I don't really care.

[chamber]

If fonz has a reason why we should be lynching today he should say so. It only slightly effects the popcorn, if we are lynching today then we are also popcornin

[chamber]

On the other hand, if he says he has no such reason, all hes done is claim not vig? Seems like the pluses are on the side of him saying one way or the other.

[chamber]

It wasn't 'is it ok to hammer?'. It was "I need to go soon should I hammer now, or give you guys more time to talk and risk that there is no hammer?"

[chamber]

But no one answered so I played it safe and hammered.

[chamber]

After some thought I've decided that I like a mass claim here. The loss of the influence of a town person is too big when we have yet to hit scum I think.

[chamber]

Eh, when I made that post the main role based reason I thought of for not no lynching was a town controlled nk. I missed some but I was tired.

[chamber]

I'm currently pro lynch even if we don't have a vig. Whether we choose to direct him or not would depend entirely on the other claimed roles.

[chamber]

Wait, instead of lynching? No we'd do both. It gives the extra kill lying around to us instead of the mafia.

[chamber]

Tasky, stop being so wrong and obv town at the same time, it makes me cry.

[chamber]

I support pappums going first.

[chamber]

I'll just make this easy on everyone. I'm a VT, pappums is up next.

[chamber]

Tasky, don't give suggestions in the future, k thx.

[chamber]

Please don't comment on happenings untill the massclaim is finished.

[chamber]

Well hero should give his investigations before anything else. Though shame on you for not vigging every night (or at all? you should claim this stuff sooner than later)

[chamber]

than later)

[chamber]

So if we make some assumptions: Hero is town and sane, AV is town, Mafia don't have prs. Then we can't lose. The last one seems iffy with a vig, a cop, and a

[chamber]

Jailkeeper though. And I really want to think that at least one of tasky and RF are town which is impossible from my pov if we make those 3 assumptions.

[chamber]

As I said we need to assume 3 things to guarantee the win, but if any is untrue we could very easily lose if we go for it, the fact that my

[chamber]

reads contradict the assumptions makes it hard for me to just say go for it.

[chamber]

You could just as easily be a GF too from my pov fonz. But you are right a GF could be among the reds.

[chamber]

I would have killed AV or Herod as scum for sure. I mean you have no way of knowing that but, FOR SURE.

[chamber]

Hero can you give a detailed explination of why you chose who you did for the cop investigations? They seem quite bad to me.

[chamber]

@VI

I didn't think I could actually get AV up to l-1? And I didn't see my actions doing any harm, I don't think they did in the end.

[chamber]

Heros had like 0 suspicion on him save maybe from KAST, leaving him alive if I was going to choose to not kill AV in favor of RBing him makes little sense to me

[chamber]

If all his suspects were wrong why not leave him alive to aid in the mislynch, I'd only need the 1.

[chamber]

Also, can you say why you chose THAT vote count?

[chamber]

You don't think being that selective with information could be biasing?

[chamber]

I also like how you ignore the DL aspect of it, as well as the conditional votes placed by RF and Hero before the same VC.

[chamber]

So you were being intentionally biasing? Noted.

[chamber]

How is a conditional vote worth any less than mine, which was placed for the exact same reason and removed almost as fast?

[chamber]

I never said you were biased. I said you were trying to bias the town.

[chamber]

Your RF protection theory also falls apart when you realize we could have simply lynched no one at all.

[chamber]

I stand by that statement despite your laughter.

[chamber]

Not a bit at all. Still considering the first question.

[chamber]

I'll give you that if Fishy flips scum RF looks worse for it, but I'd rather just see that flip first.

[chamber]

New question for you: Why did you think telling me to remove myself from the equation would work if you have a scum read on me?

[chamber]

That still feels like you are assuming that I'm town.

[chamber]

I've been burned by trusting power roles over reads too many times. The power roles here contradict my reads on every level. I'm trying to understand whats up.

[chamber]

I already read that and agree that RF looks worse for it if Fishy flips scum. I said so already in fact (though I didn't cite the page I geuss).

[chamber]

Fishys AH vote was terrible, I believe that I think that should already be clear.

[chamber]

My AH vote was not the same as Fishy's. I REALLY didn't want to lynch AH, I just wanted him to start posting again. I made that clear at the time.

[chamber]

Was fishy voting when I made my vote?

[chamber]

yeah, I was pressuring AH cause I lacked direction, the people I wanted to lycnh wheren't happening. Fishy then fucked up and seemed very lycnhable though.

[chamber]

Why would I pressure a lurker whom I think is town when I have a real lead?

[chamber]

I no longer wanted to lynch RF at that point. He had convinced me he was town with his play.

[chamber]

Also thats not WHY I voted RF, thats why I looked for someone else to vote and found RF.

[chamber]

I DIDNT? WHAT A SHOCK!

[chamber]

I do sometimes slip up and really give more than I should, but I don't remember doing so this game, care to point a finger?

[chamber]

If the scum have an RB why would they have done anything other than rb you every night after the powerrole claim you dropped?

[chamber]

I really don't understand how me hammering makes it funny.

[chamber]

Yeah I'm town so I didn't. Thats my point?

[chamber]

I'll answer re:2369 after hero answers 2369.

[chamber]

re:2370 : The power role was already outed (and as fate would have it already being rbed from my pov) getting more details on it didn't hurt,

[chamber]

I wanted to be able to move on if he really was a cop like I thought.

[chamber]

thats actually what he said in that post RF "counter wagon to tasky"

[chamber]

If I weren't just starting I reread I'd totally be voting The Fonz right now, just for the record.

[chamber]

In mafia its never about the lvl1.

[chamber]

I do sometimes slip up and really give more than I should, but I don't remember doing so this game, care to point a finger?

[chamber]

That was me defending my actions premtively. I was already suspected and expected to take more flak on backing away from what I had said I intended to do.

[chamber]

Though heres an interesting one for you, as scum in that spot why didn't I just vote kast?

[chamber]

The people that are addressing you like you are scum are either scum or town in the 'red', and thus have a reason to believe that you are.

[chamber]

I can understand why a towns persons not in the 'red' would want to lynch 3 of us and call it a game. I can even understand that tasky is considered the most