Mini 1031: Encore Mafia - GAME OVER (WHOOOSH)

[ooba]

That would be Cebm mafia role where I
- Killed the first player who successfully killed me and absorbed their power
- Once defeated, I could haunt somebody

Vote: UK

If you don't want to random vote, say you don't want to - instead of voting the mod every single game.

[ooba]

My second choice would be ooba

I'm guessing this is for the UK vote ? I consider it as bad as dice tags or not voting.

[ooba]

I'm guessing this is for the UK vote ? I consider it as bad as dice tags or not voting.

Dice tags, sure. Not voting, who cares? Get off your policy and look around.
This is especially true since you already mentioned that UK votes the mod in every game, so you've already acknowledged that you're voting her for something that

isn't an alignment tell

If I find something scummy\strange in the previous posts worth voting for, I'll do it in my first post of the game. Otherwise I'll policy vote over a "I voted for X because he heads the player list" vote anyday.

[ooba]

Which basically makes your vote as useless as mine ^-^. And then ooba was a hypocrite.

Nope. Policy votes involve voting another player - whether that info is useful in future scumhunting is debatable but at least it is information as compared to a non-vote.

[ooba]

No, it actually isn't information. It's useless posturing that actually is more scummy than a non vote because it's trying to push a probablistic mislynch on what is effectively grounds that have no bearing on whether someone is town or scum.

The fact you try to defend it as otherwise implies you are either very deluded or possibly scum setting things up a little early.

Lets get things straight:

Is not voting scummy?
Nope. I know its a null tell.

There are two separate things I am arguing about

a) Vi finding it scummy
It would have been scummy if I had pursued the vote as the game progresses. As an RVS vote, I think it fulfills its purpose.

b) Your statement "Which basically makes your vote as useless as mine ^-^. And then ooba was a hypocrite."
I had problems with this statement since its wrong and paints me as a hypocrite.
My RVS vote gives you the info that ooba voted for UK.
Your RVS vote gives you the info that UK voted for the mod which happens every game.
Equating both as the same is wrong.

[ooba]

@UK, I do not do similar votes every game. In fact, I dont think I've voted for anyone not voting before .. I just noticed you doing it so thought it was a good reason to vote.

---

MPR = Scum
Vi, TheButtonmen, Faraday = Town
Jack = Town (I think but I can never trust my Jack reads)

I'd wonder if bv or Me=weird would be as blatant in their defense if MPR was their scumbuddy. I would put my money on dramonic for the "L-2. Really" which defends MPR without really appearing to do so.

Unvote. Vote: MPR

[ooba]

Catching up ..

[ooba]

@UK - It's called a policy vote when someone votes a player for not voting right?

---

Paraphrasing this is the state of the thread right now
a) MPR has claimed vig
b) screl has claimed odd-day vig
c) Three kills per night look unlikely - Seems too swingy for a mini

Current plan is them have them shoot each other.

There are three possibilities wrt MPR's alignment
1) SK - If he is SK, then this points to screl Mafia by point "c" above.
2) Mafia - Town screl with MPR mafia is possible.
3) Town - If he is town, there is no reason to assume he is lying. This points to screl Mafia by point "c" above.

Clearly MPRs play points towards situation 1 being true. Lynching mafia is the best play here given that MPR might have lynch immunity. (Going with 178 here) ..

Vote: screl

[ooba]

@ooba: That's part of it, but my impression of policy is also that you consistently do it. It doesn't become policy til you've actually done it a few times consistently. Until then it's "voting someone for not voting"

Fine. Lets not call it a policy vote then ..

[ooba]

What about a mafia roleblocker?

Point.

On the other hand, we know that neither M+R or screl1 are going anywhere without each other. I would like for M+R to continue killing screl1 (and vice versa) until one of them dies. Otherwise one of them (likely screl1) is basically a free LyLo lynch. The only thing that could ruin that plan is some extra scum power allowing for unexpected LyLo situations, which conveniently we know screl1 doesn't have.

The worst that could happen is that MPR is town, screl is Mafia and Plum put a SK into the setup.
8-3-1: Lynch
7-3-1: Night 1. If Mafia have a roleblocker, they roleblock MPR.
5-3-1: Screl claims he shot MPR. MPR claims the same too. MPR is lynched.
4-3-1: Depending on how this turns out Mafia could win Night 2. (SK shots a townie and Mafia shoot SK)

Please remember that a Mafia traitor role will screw up any LyLo calculations so I am not in favor of leaving any confirmed scum alive.

- Has anybody got Mafia redirector role before? That has the potential to be more damaging in a situation like this

[ooba]

So, um, what's that acronym I often see bandied about? IIoA? Yeah. Ooba's up to his neck in it.

I disagree .

Anyway I'll think more about this game and post in a few.

[ooba]

"Games played under a public-knowledge alternate account are included."

- If you have public knowledge alts, please list them out.

---

- I've made a list of all possible scum roles for people. Wanted to finish this today but CDB took a lot of time.
- Used wikis for the first three. Just let me know if any scum game was missed out on that.
- Used msutils for CDB and will be using that for everyone else yet to be done
- Not that matters - but I also captured the number of members in a scum team for each particular scum role - (That's the number in brackets)
- Ones struck out are generally ones I feel cannot be in the game

Vi:

Mafia Godfather (3)
- Nightkill and Investigation immunity (Mini 847)

Mafia Goon (3)
- Open 193

Third Party - Light Yagami
- Cannot see this role being in the game - too complicated for a mini

Third Party - Barack Obama
- Serial killer pair neighbour is a fun role and something I might copy but it cannot be in this game

Third Party - Aldaris (Inquisitor)
- Kill and recruit a player every day and wins when all other factions have left the game
- Not in the game

MPR:

Mafia Double voter - General RAAM (2)
- Secret voter is more apt. "You have an additional secret vote in addition to your normal one. You may move this vote by PMing me. This vote will be represented in the vote counts, but will not appear to have a source." - Not necessary to forcibly secret vote.

Mafia Politician - Kraken (4)
- Can make a player voteless the next day and can then secret vote another player for the entire next day (Has to chose in the night and the vote stays permanently for the day)

Third Party - Naughty Sorceress
- Has a kill
- Revive on first kill - either lynch or kill
- After that is immune to all night kills

Screl:

Mafia Goon (3)
- Mini 999

CDB:
Mafia Goon
- Violin (Band Mafia) (3)
- Luca Brasi (Face-to-Face Mafia) (3) - Don't think this counts
- Carrots (FBNB - You are what you eat Mafia) (2); Cannot kill on successive nights
- Tree Frogs (Frogs Mafia) (2); Plus Traitor
- Open 11 (2)

- Invitational 3 (2); Had a group Roleblock\Doctor per day; Was replaced

Mafia Godfather\1-shot Rolecop (Avon - Wire Mafia) (3)
- Investigation Immune
- Night Rolecop (Gets role name, abilities and wincon)

Mafia Godfather (Tom Nook - Animal Crossing Mafia) (3)
- Complicated - involves game specific mechanics so not in this game
- Was replaced

Mafia Roleblocker (Mini 955) (3)

Mafia who is evil - Red dragon (Mafia 788) (2)
- Rolename was "Mafia Traitor" but thats misleading
- Converts to SK if he kills his partner; Also becomes NK immune and cannot be investigated or tracked

Mafia Vote Redirector (Rue Dass - Post Restriction Mafia III) (3)
- each night, can force a player to vote another for the entire next day. Obviously if target dies, its wasted.

Third Party - Padan Fain (WoT Mafia)
- Has a kill, gains a kill if he kills a specific role (Al'Thor) in the game
- Not in game

Third Party - Puppeteer (Snakes on a Plane Mafia)
- Once a night may recruit someone; person retains role
- If Mafia is targetted, dies. Cult wins when they are the only ones left

Third Party - Psycopath (Mafia 51)
- Has a kill, appears innocent to cops
- Since this was semi-open roles were posted in front. Full role PMs were not posted in the end.
- Replaced out

[ooba]

Scum:
Karma: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13699
Halo: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=13808
SE I: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13890
Yu-Gi-Oh: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=14295

Any particular reason you left out Mafia in Mendo. Find it hard to believe that you would overlook your first scum win.

bv:

Mafia Goon

- Karma Mafia (3) - Not possible

- Marilith (Square enix I) (4)

Mafia Doctor - Insane Asylum II (3)
- Replaced out

Mafia Watcher - Mafia in Mendo (4)

---

This exercise will help narrow down scum role possibilities - while you may not find it useful now - it will be consulted later once claims start happening.

"Games played under a public-knowledge alternate account are included."

- If you have public knowledge alts, please list them out.

Again, this list is useless if I do not list out all possibilities. Therefore everyone should not ignore this and post their public alts.

[ooba]

UK:

Mafia One-shot Bulletproof Goon (Yellow Virus - Mini 1011) (3)

Mafia Traitor - Peter Pettigrew (HP Mafia)
- Was replaced

* Xyl's Anime Bastard Chaos - Game Over!
- What role were you?

Third Party - Fox News Correspondent (Pledge of Allegiance)
- Kills a player and recruits into neighbourhood; Kill resolves at end of Day
- One-shot bulletproof

Third Party - Lyncher (SWN II Mafia)
- Wins when target gets lynched; If target dies, assumes target's role
- Investigates as innocent

Third Party - Andrew Laeddis
- Town delusional (blank shots) vig. Turns lyncher on neighbour if he mentions his true past.

---

@bv, I am going with something Faraday said - basically if Plum had to modify the role PMs a lot, then it defeats the purpose - in Karma Mafia, the scum mechanics of getting abilities were in the role PM - that's why I feel it won't be here. But I've posted it there in case I turn out to be wrong.

Also, why claim something which helps narrow down your role if you're not scum - esp. since you posted town game links in thread too ..

[ooba]

Me=Weird

Mafia Roleblocker
- Newbie 928

Mafia Goon
- Newbie 955, Newbie 961

Third Party - Anber Jayworthy
- Can posses a player in the night. Can make the player use the item in any way desired, including giving it to him.
- Pretty useless without items; Ability makes sense only if someone else has an item based role - otherwise powerless

---

Would it be worth the time to make a spread sheet of everyones possible roles?

Your post in response to the accusation of you only posting IIoA is 100% IIoA

It's still IIoA, the usefulness of information doesn't change the fact that it's a way to be active without actually partcipating.

- Why didn't you follow up on your initial idea?
- Why did you think its useful to make a list of everyone's all possible roles instead of just scum roles?
- And why are you still voting bv over me?

[ooba]

Want to wrap this up in the next few hours if thats possible - this is taking a lot more time than expected .. Plus not much time to deadline and I wanted to read the game once before then ..

Dramonic

Mafia Goon
- Open 176 - Night Watch
- Mini 761
- Square enix I (Barbaricca)

Mafia RB - Mini 816

Mafia Doctor - Mafia 101

Mafia Godfather
- NK Immune (Left 4 Dead Mafia)
- Can choose between NK and Investigation immunity every night (Border of Touhou and Mafia)

* Theme Park California Trilogy: City of Angels - On Camera (Game Over) - Could not determine role

Third Party: Arsonist JoaT (SWN II: The Curse of the Nekomata)
- Compulsive kill
- One-shot: Framer, Roleblock, Redirect, Track

Third Party: Fenrir Greyback (Harry Potter Mafia)
- Compulsive kill

Third Party: Dee Renolyds (It's always sunny Mafia)
- Investigation immune
- Cannot kill herself but can covert another player's night action into a kill

Role which I feel will not be in the game:
- Vile Apprentice, Min 991, Powerful Wizard Mafia
- Creature, Wisborg Asylum - For every three kills, requires one more vote to lynch
- Murderer, Stars Aligned I and II

[ooba]

Also TBM is ignoring questions ..

Unvote. Vote: TBM

[ooba]

Also, you're missing some games ooba. I have a public knowledge alt, mentioned in my signature called forbiddanlight.

I've kept your alt games at the last .. I tried not to miss any games since it would defeat the purpose otherwise - Point em out?

[ooba]

Anti prod post .. Will be here in 24 hours ..

[ooba]

@Ooba:

Your still only doing IIoA I see.

Still ignoring the questions I see

[ooba]

i hope ooba finishes his analysis soon, it's been top notch so far.

Lol. You serious?
Got good meta of Faraday scum trying to link himself with townies before (oGaM) ..

Anywayz, will finish it off some time before deadline ..

Any lynch which TBM does not agree on is good for me ..

Vote: Me=Weird

[ooba]

MPR was that you?

[ooba]

I believe we should mass claim..

CDB should get replaced ..

[ooba]

Unvote: Me=Weird

Vote: screl1

(L-something)
I'd hate to not lynch the SIFOM and loathe myself for it later.

Whether one should Vig bv310, Me=Weird, or ChannelDelibird is an open question.

How did you know that screl wasn't the vig?

[ooba]

I didn't, but one would think the odds are a little better of hitting scum when choosing the counterclaimer who mysteriously disappeared after his first post.

Your post seems to be devoid of any doubt ..

---

I believe we should mass claim..

[ooba]

Well damn it .. Never knew the deadline was so close ..

Wanted a massclaim because I thought we can come up with a plan to get scum by Poe .. Roles are limited and I am guessing most (if not all) of us are powerroles .. It would be pretty lame to be VT here .. Claiming to save time ..

Claim: Gambit

I can kinetically charge a person's house to make them a PGO for that night .. Anybody visiting their house dies ..

Targeted Jack last night .. So if anyone wants to counterclaim that they visited Jack, this is the time to do it .. (Reg. why Jack, I went for the person who I thought the scum would NK) ..

P.S: A scum watcher would know that nobody visited Jack last night but I've never been a scum watcher in my previous games ..

[ooba]

This is irrelevant unless you think we've 4 groupscum, which seems rather unlikely I think.

Three Mafia + Traitor?

[ooba]

I've also never drawn a SK role before .. I'd like us to massclaim now in this order .. I am moving TBM and Vi to the end of the list because TBM also has not drawn SK roles and I don't think any of Vi's previous third party roles would be appropriate here ..

This is the order I prefer:

Faraday
UncertainKitten
Jack
TBM
Vi
ooba - I'll claim who I targeted yesterday in the end

If you have any reservations speak up ..

[ooba]

Faraday moves behind Jack .. umm Me=Weird can start .. GoGoGo!

[ooba]

I targeted vi yesterday .. Will analyze once I get back from work

[ooba]

If there is four mafia, I think one would have been a traitor to start out .. (Which I have been)

I think we can break the game open by having ooba constantly target me while I investiblock everyone. As soon as I get that last Guilty, it's game over.

Y/N?

If you think its four Mafia, there's no reason to trust me or for that matter trust you ..

Analyzing now ..

[ooba]

bv's recruiting mason role worked only on town or he dies otherwise .. So I guess you can believe Vi .. Searching for crumbs ..

[ooba]

pgo inventor seems like a pretty terrible role to throw in this setup.

unvote

Unless you can explain how Vi got innocent when I've
- Never got SK
- Never had a redirector Mafia role
- Never had a investigation immune Mafia role
that point holds no water.

Also

T1: 4 Mafia theory (Traitor or otherwise)
T2: 3 Mafia, 1 SK

TBM - VT
screl - lynched D1
Jack - Town universal backup
UK - evolver (twice on watch)

N1:
dramonic - Choose investigation immune (N1)
Faraday(Track) - UK - No result
Vi (Cop+RB) - Faraday - "innocent"
CDB(RB) - ???
ooba(PGO Maker) - Jack
MPR(Vig) - dramonic
bv - Vi
Me=Weird - Vi

Faraday -
Vi (Cop+RB) - ooba - "innocent"
Faraday(Track) - TBM - Went no where
ooba(PGO Maker) - Vi
MPR(vig) - bv

- MPR is not Mafia
-- Kill on dramonic. Alternative explanation could be dramonic was killed by my PGO and MPR claimed it but then Jack shouldn't have survived.
-- Plus if you're going with T1, both MPR's mafia roles are vote based .. Overpowered

- No Mafia kills N1
-- Mafia hit Vi
-- Mafia hit a NK-immune\bulletproof SK
-- Mafia killer was roleblocked .. Points to Faraday by T1

Work in progress ..

[ooba]

I think 4 mafia is not probable because
- with the vig (who cannot be mafia)
- my role which will kill the claimed doc and tracker
Mafia can win in N1 - which is just bad design

Plan should be to eliminate people who can be SK while Vi investigates others.
Faraday and TBM I'll check tonight as to whether they are telling the truth about their Sk possibility.

Lynch UK
Jack vig
Lynch mpr if game isn't over by then

I'll protect vi and the doc on me.
Vi on TBM. Faraday can track one person.

[ooba]

I was going to say a vig and an SK would be very swingy, but then realised we had a PGO inventor type role

I think TBM's the most likely to be scum if we do have 4 mafia

, ooba's analysis seems to say that's unlikely? I guess it might be, meh I think if we're aiming for an SK then MPR's the obvious lynch.

What about the N2 kill or lack of it? TBM just not killed in the off chance that a tracker might track him?

[ooba]

So I'm next? I'm Simon the Evolver from Xyl's Anime Bastard Chaos. I've used Evolve twice on a watcher path. First I got the ability to target a player and find out if they were targetted. Not very helpful, so I evolved it. Now I get to know how many times they were targetted. Marginally useful but I'm probably gonna evolve it once more hoping for a full blown watch.

Jack next it seems.

Well the one point in your favor is that you claimed a forbiddanlight role - that alt rule was made for you. If you are scum, I expect it to be a forbiddanlight role ..

[ooba]

So I'm next? I'm Simon the Evolver from Xyl's Anime Bastard Chaos. I've used Evolve twice on a watcher path. First I got the ability to target a player and find out if they were targetted. Not very helpful, so I evolved it. Now I get to know how many times they were targetted. Marginally useful but I'm probably gonna evolve it once more hoping for a full blown watch.

Jack next it seems.

-> Discrepancy from original game:
"You may use Spiral Evolution and one of your Spiral Power abilities each night." - So technically on N2 you should have been able to evolve the semi-weak watch and use it as well ..
-> Why did you not choose "Name Inspect" .. Seemed to be a much more powerful weak power ..

[ooba]

This works too I guess ..
"Protecting" Vi ..

Vote: MPR

in case that wasn't the hammer

[ooba]

Ah!!! ... I liked this game ... Well played all (except probably CDB) ..