Mini 1040 - Everyone's A Critic! [Game Over]

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #93 (isolation #0) » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:13 pm

It appears kunkstar didn't note my weekend V/LA.

I'll be able to comment on the schenanigans so far Monday night but based on my quick read so far -

VOTE: DavidParker

Not how Town DP plays by a longshot.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #134 (isolation #1) » Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:18 pm

This is what is commonly known as a large catch-up post. Be warned …

mykonian wrote:2. if scum would get the Vig ability, they would pass it around the team, thereby creating a second mafia kill. The mechanic would be useless, and almost never 2 mafia kills are balanced in a mini, so the current Vig is a townie.
tomorrow, the first thing this "vig" must do, is claim that he was the vig the first day. He is from then on a confirmed townie
.

Despite the change to the mechanic announced I will say in general I think the bolded portion of his original statement is probably wise. It doesn’t make sense for scum to start with two kills Night 1 (faction and Vig mechanic) unless they are severally underpowered or disadvantaged. Especially in light of the fact that it dooms the Vig mechanic N2. Thus the player with the Vig power Night 1 should claim Day 2 unless he / she has something else to potentially lose.

Stef wrote: 1. Most Mini games are unbalanced and biased towards scum, even after they are reviewed.

Mykonian has previously highlighted exactly why the rest of your post was wrong (which you stipulated to shortly afterwards). I just wanted to add the following -

Also your point number 1 is pure unadulterated bullshit and your attempt to use it to support your vote was scumtastic.

Haschel wrote:Hey danakillsu, what do you think of Mykonian's play?

Why only ask dana about mykonian’s play?

JJ wrote:scorpion we start early and catch scum early, mykonian has the right idea

On the heels of your self-vote can I take it you are claiming scum?

Jack wrote:Scorpion, vote yourself please, I want to see something.

What exactly did you want to see? If he was foolish enough to vote for himself when he was the early number 1 wagon?

Jack wrote:Yeah but you hadn't really been giving any reason for voting him. Works both ways.

I agree with your statement. That said given your penchant for reasonless voting you really don’t have any high ground from which to make pronouncements.

dana wrote:I think RedCoyote's vote of me is scummy as well. Just because I didn't have time to post when everyone else did doesn't make me scum. And yes, I am almost always an easy lynch. unvote vote: RedCoyote Don't you dare call that blatant OMGUS. It's the scummiest vote so far

You are misreping RC here. He didn’t vote you for lurking. He voted you for having not 1 post worth a damn in the game. Huge difference.

@DavidParker

– care to actually join the game as opposed to making Town / Scum pronouncements that as far as I can tell seem to originate from thin air?

Stef's looks much worse for the wear in her exchange with mykonian and others. Before I move my vote from here scum-partner DP I want to see a vote-count. It is much too early in the Day to end currently.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #215 (isolation #2) » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:12 am

Truth be told everyone seems to be missing the fact that I’m not really lighting up the world with this game.

DP wrote:Lay off Jack, he is definitely town.

If you were crippled with a migrane (as stated at 160 which was nine hours earlier) why did it only take you 6 minutes to respond to XScorp’s vote of Jack?

And if you are better why aren’t you providing content in 185?

I can think of three reasons why you are so insistant that Jack is Town. One involves you being a VI which I don’t think you are. One of the other two means my vote on you is well placed. The other means you should shut the hell up about it.

mykonian wrote:are we seriously going to play the "how can I get Jack to say more and more" game?

Ummm good luck with that.

RedC wrote:What if the vig shots are wrong though?

JellyJig didn’t make any statement about the accuracy of the Vig shots. He simply stated (incorrectly based on the later Mod provided information) that if Town started with the Vig ability and Mafia can’t pass it to themselves that after 3 nights two of the three must be Town.

What does the accuracy of the Vig shots have anything to do with his statement? Statistically more Town will die to Vigs than scum based on the generally accepted 9-3 ratio.

HC wrote:Jack had unvoted, putting XScorpion at two votes. Your "pressure" vote put XScorpion back up to three, so you didn't really add more pressure at all, did you? What reactions were you hoping to get? What made THIS "XScorpion has three votes" more pressure-filled than the last "XScorpion has three votes"?

Players only have a single vote (normally) and can use it to apply pressure. Stef can’t control how other players act. The act of voting for someone increases the pressure on that person. X was at two votes and after Stef’s vote was at three. He increased pressure. Your attempt to paint it otherwise isn’t a logical argument. XScorp may not feel more pressure at 3 votes containing Stef compared to 3 votes containing Jack. But he does compared to 2 votes without either.

XScorp wrote:This is an obvious trap. Here's how the scum does it: You vote for someone and don't give a reason, opting instead to come up with it later if pressured. Then, if the townie you're voting for doesn't ask for those reasons, you go gung-ho saying "HAHA YOU MUST BE SCUM BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T ASK WHY I WAS VOTING YOU." Nice try bro.

And yet the trap fails miserably if the person is questioned about the reasonless vote. So how again is this trap effective and thus something that scum would use?

Stef wrote:No. It has been discussed over and over again that the typical 12P game is biased towards scum with an average of 66% chance of scum to win. A general accepted suggestion is to add an additional player to the mini setups to help balance the game. While reviewers do balance the game further, the norm is still the typical 12p game which is inheritedly biased. Also, I said most. Anyway, this has something to do with the MAFIA game construct, not "Everyone's a critic" mafia and mafia balancing theory is not going to help.

Cite these discussion please. If the arguments are based on outcomes then player ability is tainting the results. Regardless, you acknowledge that your statement isn’t particularly applicable to an individual game. So again – why bring up a theoretical point?

Stef wrote:Your vote was not OMGUS when it was cast. It became OMGUS when you left it on me for OMGUS reasons.

Um what? If a vote isn’t OMGUS when cast it doesn’t magically morph into OMGUS based on later discussion. This looks like serious stretching to justify your position.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #217 (isolation #3) » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:23 am

XScorpion wrote: It doesn't fail, because the scum picks someone who is likely to do something scummy later, and then after doing so, uses that as an excuse to keep the vote there. Surely if you were scum, you wouldn't go after the most obviously pro-town person?

You are missing the point of my question.

1. Player A votes for Player B without reason.
2. Player B in their next post asks Player A for reasons.

It's hardly an effective trap. Player A may come up with more reasons later but by questioning the vote (which in the scenario I assume is out of RVS) Player B can't be attacked for not confronting their accuser.

And any player (or competant player, anyway) isn't going to cast a vote and then not look for further support. It's not solely a Scum play.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #219 (isolation #4) » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:46 am

If you are looking for recent Jack meta I already have this compiled due to [REDACTED] so I see no reason not to share it.

Quick and Dirty Mafia – he flipped Goon.
Gears of War Mafia– he won as a Serial Killer
Alternate Vote Mafia– he was engamed as an undisclosed Town role.

Assess as you wish.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #256 (isolation #5) » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:58 pm

dana wrote:Interesting, mykonian. I assume from the "ripper" thing, you're talking about Jack. But that's just speculation. I don't really know that you could prove he's scum from those things.

You do know, of course, that the game we are playing is at it’s base speculation. There is no empirical ‘proof’ in absolute terms in Mafia. Mykonian’s statement is pure meta. Based on the links I provided I don’t think it’s accurate meta, but given Jack’s more distant past and playstyle it certainly isn’t scummy.

DP wrote:Actually, my reason for voting you from earlier on in the day phase has been made moot by something I realized.

I'm going to do a '180 and OMGUS the socks off of Magna.

MagnaOfIllusion

For going after an "easy" target (me), and 10 pages in having his vote on someone (me) who hasn't even noticed it's been on him til now because of my absence from the game. To me that strikes as scummy behaviour wanting to use your vote somewhere you won't be called out for and you won't get caught on a bandwagon either. Your vote being on me has basically been as good as not voting.

1. Calling yourself an easy target doesn’t make your play less suspicious. Look at your ISO. It consists of calling some players Town and three players scum in lists devoid of content and telling us you are sick. This last self-styled OMGUS is the only thing that remotely is close to scum-hunting.
2. How is your failure to look at vote-counts a scum-tell on me again?
3. You are saying it’s bad to have a vote on someone you feel is scummy but isn’t the leading bandwagon. Because it renders your vote useless. Then explain to me this - based on your own logic how are you not scummy? You RVS voted Antihero. You kept it there up until you came after me. Hell you kept it there even after you posted the following gem –

DP wrote:Town:
Jack
danakillsu
Stef
Jelly Jiggler
Haschel

Scum:
XScorpion
Antihero
RedCoyote

Take your pick out of those 2 for our lynch. Let's get this moving.

That’s right. You take Antihero off your scum list but don’t even bother to move it to Xscorpian or RedCoyote who you say are scum.

Then you say you are going after mykonian (who is hip-deep in a huge conflict with Stef). When you challenges you to post content that he can rebut what do you do? OMGUS. Not vote your ‘scum reads’.

So you stowed your vote on Antihero and then ducked attacking someone central to the day’s focus so you weren’t possibly caught in a bandwagon.

Yeah, my vote is well placed indeed.

Antihero wrote:This is a really crappy vote, considering imaginality only posted once and hasn't posted elsewhere on this site while ignoring this game.

Please explain why it is a crappy vote. Because it is on someone who isn’t posting on MS at all? Or because Stef specifically stated it was a pressure vote?

LMP wrote:I dunno, I guess it was gut. XS is town though, so that's nice.

Welcome to the game LMP. I agree with your miller claim, especially since we know there is a Vig. Also this statement will make a great cross-reference against your known completed scum games for meta. Very Pro-Town of you.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #266 (isolation #6) » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:30 am

HC wrote:This post feels rather expositiony.

HC wrote:I guess I mean what you said should be so obvious to everybody playing the game that the act of actually saying it almost feels like you're providing exposition to an outside reader who is unfamiliar with Mafia.

There's probably a better way to phrase that.

The thing that I don’t see in either of the explanations is concrete opinion on whether mykonian is scummy for making that statement. You seem to infer so but it is far from clear.

Please clarify – do you think mykonian’s statement was scummy? If not why go to trouble of pointing out a statement that is at worst null?

HC wrote:Wouldn't it be better for you to convince me to shoot RC?

I’m sure you have your reasons … but what in the hell are you doing here?

You present dana with a hypothetical situation and ask him to argue one way or the other in regards to Stef. He does so and then you ask why he didn’t address RC instead.

This reminds me of Lucy Van Pelt pulling the football away from Charlie Brown at the last second. Setting moving goal points isn’t very effective scum-hunting IMO.

XScorp wrote:How often have you guys seen mafia claim miller? Just curious.

Check out Macavitylock in the latest Large Theme Harry Potter game. His claimed in a similar situation to LMP and was indeed a miller (in this case Snape). That’s my only direct involvement with claimed millers in completed games I have participated in.

dana wrote:I have not tunneled on RC. I have made many statements not directed at him, and even more not about him specifically. I do not have any other scumreads atm, which is why it might appear I'm tunneling on RC. Strangely enough, it seems whatever he says is turned into gold by others, and the defense I make for myself is ignored or called tunneling. Whatever. It will be town's loss to lynch me, so you're hurting yourselves as much as me. I would simply advise everyone to look at the actual logic involved in our conversation without bias to who is saying what, and I think people who can successfully do this will see things in a different light.

This quote is strongly reminding me of quotes I saw from you in [REDACTED] dana. There’s a general AtE tone to the whole thing (Whataver, it will be town’s loss to lynch me). Especially considering that you only had two votes on you at the point you made it. Stef still had more and looks like a more likely lynch today.

@Everyone with a Town read on David Parker

- Why do you have that read? Especially in light of his behavior that I pointed out in 256?

MOD

– I’ll be V/LA from 4pm EDT today until sometime Monday for my regular family weekend duties and holiday events.

~V/LA noted.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #298 (isolation #7) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:35 pm

Don't have much time right now but will be re-reading dana and RC in the next two RL days. Bed calls me right now.

Let me say for the record - Why are more people not voting for David Parker? My god look at his ISO!

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #319 (isolation #8) » Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:53 am

Regarding Jack’s claim – I have good reason not to trust Jack as far as I can throw him when it comes to claims made when he isn’t under pressure.

LMP wrote:Well, I think that if you were willing to call Stef scum based solely on his link to RC, and then you learn Stef isn't scum, it should do more than make your "assocation" between them void, it also has possible implications to your scum read.

So you are saying here that

1. Player A has a scum-read on Player B based on gameplay.
2. Player A thinks that Player C might be scum based solely on Player C’s interactions with Player B and not in the least based on any other factors.
3. Player C is vouched for / revealed to be Town.

and the logical conclusion is for Player A to question his or her read on Player B? That’s quite ridiculous.

DP wrote:So we can actually get a bandwagon going, and me not wasting a vote on someone for a weak case that noone is going to join on.

So you’d rather bandwagon someone who was earlier on your Town list as opposed to sticking with a case and vote you ‘made’ yourself.

So first you say you are going to make a case on mykonian. When you simply request you do it quickly you immediately back off and decide to, as you put it, ‘OMGUS’ my socks off. When that case gets summarily dismissed you hop on a popular bandwagon, but not the dominant one.

Anyone else see some scum-motivation here?

DP wrote:Because I'm awesome.

[announcer voice on] Your definition of awesome may vary [/announcer voice off]

Why are you not doing I bit of scum-hunting as opposed to dropping in one-liners that mostly apply to game theory?

dana wrote:I really do believe him to be a likely scumpal of the person my vote was on, so I'll take it as a second option.

I looked through your ISO and am trying to see where this conclusion came from. Here are the only quotes I can see that link Stef and RC together –

dana ISO 13 wrote:@ David and Stef
What more does it take to convince you that RC is scum? How is his latest post better than the earlier ones? It looks to me like a couple diversions and some gut feelings.

dana ISO 16 wrote:Shoot him. He's a possible scumbuddy to RC from his strange statement that his posting has improved and his wishy-washiness over him. He's not scummy for things he's done, just by connection to RC, but you could definitely do worse for an NK.

I take it from this that your case on Stef as a buddy revolves around his statement that RC's posting had improved.

Why don’t you consider everyone else who made similar statements (mykonian) or never considered RC’s posting scummy (myself and others)?

Also – what about David Parker’s play suggests to you that he is town?

dana wrote:Well then. In light of Jack's claim, I guess I'll go back to hoping someone will see the light. unvote vote: RedCoyote

Do you think simply placing a vote on him again is going to convince anyone? If you really feel he is scum how about putting together a case with support.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #355 (isolation #9) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:18 pm

My review of Dana's case -

dana wrote:5: After voting me originally because I had not posted content, he keeps his vote on me after I have posted content. Why? Because I'm supposedly afraid of expressing my opinion on events. Well if you look at the post he linked to, expressing my opinion on current, important events is all I've done. One of the major points in his case at this moment is that I called Jack town based on meta/gut. Another is that I unvoted and voted him (which was because the mod did not include my vote in the votecount)

In ISO 5 RedCoyote links to your 191. In that post you do the following.

Respond to HC regarding Stefs posting as ‘goodposting’.
Respond to HC regarding semantics about the timing of a read and the phrase “at this point”
Revote RC since the Mod had missed your first vote.
State Jack is obvtown.

How is this posting opinions on current, important events?

dana wrote:6: Confirms his vote on me, saying he's sure of himself, and discounts my posts as ignoring most of the game (without quoting any of my posts of course)

1. How is confirming his vote on a suspect scummy?
2. Your statement that he is sure of him misrepresents what he stated. He stated he is getting more comfortable with his vote based on your continued posting. How is that statement scummy?

dana wrote:8: Says "if he had to guess" that he'd guess I was not town. Obviously not as sure of himself as he was.

His ISO 8 is quite detailed about the reasons for voting you. He also questions you on several points. To suggest that it is scummy because he’s not 100% sure you are scum is a poor attack. Town is never sure when hunting scum as they are the Uninformed Minority.

dana wrote:9: Quotes four of my posts.
a) ignores most of my post and does little besides basic contradiction of the part he doesn't ignore
b) blatant misrep and exaggeration (as I already pointed out)
c) calls my simple, unadulterated statement of truth "pouting" for some reason
d) blatant misrep and exaggeration

A. The first quote directly addresses that short statement you made in reaction to his statement that your meta change doesn’t suit you. And he clearly does more there than basic contradiction. Can you explain how responding to a part of a post is inherently scummy?
B. It is an exaggeration. First solidly valid point I see.
C. Your simple, unadulterated truth is a massive boatload of AtE.
D. I disagree – this is an interpretation and hardly a ‘misrep’.

dana wrote:12: Obvious and unnecessary condescension

How is that scummy?

I don’t see any significant indications in this ‘case’ that RedCoyote is scum.

mykonian wrote:because I don't yet have any idea who I should vote for. Both my case (+vote) on dana and Jack were mostly of an investigative nature. Only my gutread on Haschel remains, and I don't want to vote on that. Before I'll reread (tonight), I have a few questions for Jack.

So because you don’t have a strong candidate you would rather park your vote on someone you now admit is likely Town?

And what are your thoughts on David Parker?

Stef wrote:DP is conveniently laying low. DP, what is your opinion on Dana's RC case?

You could help alleviate the problem by voting for him.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #398 (isolation #10) » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:30 pm

DavidParker wrote:The fact you actually think that is the most probable scum team right now makes me question both your intelligence and your alignment. That is the practically the least likely scum team I see possible.

Based on your play you have the audacity to question someone else’s intelligence? All you have done is post useless fluff, explained that you couldn’t get into the game when called on it, posted more fluff and useless questions and bandwagonned.

DavidParker wrote:BUT, Jack just DENIED being in said game. So..... Someone link or explain this.

Mykonian’s translation gave you the EXACT game name. Why is it impossible for you to go looking for it yourself?

You are scum. Just admit it so we can lynch you.

Seriously people – what does it take for you to see that DP is just scum?

LMP wrote:Interesting how mykonian suddenly thinks Jack's play isn't Jack-town, but earlier in the thread he seemed to like Jack's play fine. The only thing I see different is that Jack is now calling mykonian scum.

LMP wrote:No. I'm not letting you manipulate me. You want to twist what you've done to make it look better, but in the end you have shown that your "reads" on people are purely tactical. You thought Jack was awesome earlier when he was agreeing with you, but the moment he started thinking you might be scum you decide that he is no longer obv-town and start calling him scum. You need lynching I think.

Mykonian has already shown this to be incorrect. I even went out of my way earlier today to provide three recent Jack meta games when mykonian expressed his suspicion of Jack’s alignment based on meta.

These combined are a lazy, scummy attack. Not what I expect from Town LMP.

Also the whole ‘I’m not letting you manipulate me’ line is pure crap that I expect to see from a weak player. LMP you are not a weak player.

Jack wrote:In general, there isn't much you can definitively point at in mafia to say is scummy. There are a number of "agreed upon" things, and many that aren't. Some that only one person knows about only one other person. Even those things come down to making the judgement, based on the persons post, that they were doing it in a scummy way. So cases aren't as important as people say (often I just read for tone and ignore the reasoning). mykonian is an overall read that he's scum looking for a target rather than town looking for a lynch, do you guys want a smoking gun, well that's nice.

Nice looking but generally useless post that attempts to look Pro-Town. Everything comes down to judgement and motivation about why people are posting as they do? Thanks, didn’t realize this

You may think cases aren’t important. I think unexplained reads with no support ‘aren’t as important’ as some people say. I also find it ironic that you are voting for mykonian when in the post where the above statement was made you make a ‘case’ against Antihero.

Also, please answer the question that mykonian asked that you have dodged.

mykonian wrote:He has claimed. Nothing about his role implies 2 scum. Why did Jack say this?

dana wrote:It simply is posting on current events. There's no "how" to it.

You called them current,

important

events. I don’t see that your semantic argument with HC or your opinion that Jack is obvtown with no reasoning qualifies as important.

dana wrote:1. It's scummy because of what he does later in ISO 8. It's not scummy that he isn't 100% sure I'm scum, it's that he pretends to be growing more sure that I am scum and then backs off when some pressure is put on him by saying "if I had to guess" and thereby pretending he's not as sure as he was saying he was.

His growing suspicion of you doesn’t mean he is absolutely certain. From a Town persepective everything is at some level a guess and I find your statement that he is backing off absurd.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #414 (isolation #11) » Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:09 am

dana wrote:surety>growing suspicion>suspicion>a guess
This is fairly obvious. He went straight to level 2, up to level 3, and then suddenly back down to level 2. Why? Because someone put a little pressure on him.

You are putting quantitative values to qualitative language choices based on your personal perspective. So no, it is not ‘fairly obvious’ and a rather lackluster attack, IMO.

mykonian wrote:IMO david is just annoying. The difference with Jack is that I don't have a reference.

The only point that I really have against david is what MoI explained again. He could just have searched, but in stead does nothing and asks a question for 2 or 3 days. That was lurking (and not even intelligent lurking).

David Parker has done more scummy than just active lurk.

1. He’s bandwagonned with abosolutely no reasoning or scum-hunting. See his votes on dana as his wagon grew and now his vote with Jack / LMP on you.
2. He’s backed off any position when challenged in the slightest. He stated he was going to make a case on you and immediately abandoned that when you said you were ready for it. He made a ‘case’ on me and when I responded and slapped him around he unvoted and bandwagonned dana.

Jack wrote:I do not think mykonian is scum because of meta. Neither does lmp.

Then why is the bulk of your ‘case’ involve posting quotes from another game where he was scum?

Also Jack at 411 is typical Jack – go on the offensive when anyone dares to challenge him.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #423 (isolation #12) » Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:14 pm

dana wrote:This is pathetic. Do words not have meanings any more? It IS actually obvious to everyone but you, I'm sure, that what I am saying makes perfect sense. Except of course that I meant he went back down to level 1.

No what’s pathetic is your attempt to somehow spin your personal hurt feelings into some sort of scum-tell. If it were oh so obvious as you say you would have gotten even an iota of support in your attacks. The fact that you didn’t should tell you everything you need to know about your ‘case’.

myokonian wrote:please request replacement.

This quite honestly is a load of crap. Your disagreement with Antihero regarding his thoughts on revoting Stef doesn’t warrant this statement.

If you feel that way why aren’t you asking David Parker or Dr. Shotty to replace out. Their play has been less useful than Antihero’s.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #444 (isolation #13) » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:06 am

I'll wait until the flip before I celebrate ...

I've seen fake-scum claims before from the certain type of player that David Parker represents so well.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #453 (isolation #14) » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:04 pm

Shotty wrote:first!
vote stef

Mykonian wrote:agreed. Stef was "supposed" to be a confirmed towny. But he wasn't shot.

Plus the extensive case already on him: vote Stef

and if I get the vig, I'll pump your dead body full with lead, Jack.

Um what?

Seriously folks I hate these votes. Jack’s ploy (which is classic Jack to fake-claim Day 1) was horrible but remember he did flip Town. Not scum-motivation to fake clear Stef in his play. And ignoring the inherent WIFOM in Stef’s continued existence is dangerous.
Stef certainly needs examined but let’s no go off half-cocked, as it were.

I need to go back and look at HC’s posts and suspcions. I think he was more likely the scum kill and thus his thoughts bear the most reflection.

Also Shotty your post is scummy as hell. No content at all to speak of Day 1 and then you suddenly rush to get a three word post with a vote in it?

LMP – your play Day 1 continues to resemble non-Town games for you. I’m not liking it. You are first on my list for an in-depth ISO.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #485 (isolation #15) » Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:06 am

XScorp wrote:I want everyone to tell me
a) how "many games they've played with shotty
b) what roles he was in those games
c) what they think of him so far.

A. Luckily zero before this one.
B. N/A
C. I’m most disconcerted that he’s a VI who is proud of that fact. I’d almost throw him into the Troll category based on a quick read-through of other games. Multiple instances of claiming Town PRs as a Vanilla Town is a clear indication of this to me.

XScorp

– I want you to answer your own questions. Go.

XScorp wrote:Jack is town, and he may be right when he said there are only 2 scum.

Jack’s position as Town has little to do with the credibility of his opinion on this manner. In a 12 person game I really can’t see this as being true unless we are in what is basically a Mountainous set-up (10 Town and 2 scum, all Vanilla) with only the passable Vig (which can go to either side) as a Power Role.

LMP’s Miller claim seems to shoot this out of the water. Gameplay optimalness aside, do you believe LMP’s claim?

Mykonian you are a bastard for pre-empting me on this.

mykonian wrote:As a conclusion: although we lost three towny's, I can't say I'm too unhappy.
I had the feeling that Haschel was scum, although I couldn't find out why
, and the other two were a distraction too. From my point of view, we lost three potential targets for a mislynch.

Emphasis added – this statement alone is the reason I’m not keen jump immediately on the Stef wagon. I’m completely not sold on any portion of a case on him that revolves around mechanics speculation as Mod (sorry

) move that target multiple times Day 1.

mykonian wrote:Before you answer, think: scum might very well try to hunt the vig tonight.
wifom about if the role still exists might benefit the town (though I'm of the opinion that it is better to know it).

Your first sentence is exactly why RC not revealing his hand-off target is important. Scum (if they didn’t receive the ability last night, in which case this is a moot discussion) then have to decide whether to follow their own reads in regards to Pro-Town players and potential PRs or to try to outguess’s RC about who he would have passed the Vig to.

mykonian wrote:Please get (force)replaced:

antihero

The more you bang this drum while ignoring much worse players like David Parker and Shotty the more I’m inclinded to think that this is manufactured distancing if either of you ends up flipping scum.

Shotty wrote:unvote
vote mykonian
i was cool with either, and this has a better backing behind it.

You know we just got rid of David Parker and now you are starting this crap?

@LMP

– I will be ISOing you as time allows – your play here just strikes me as way too similar to scum games I have seen you play (ooba’s Mad World Mafia and the just ended Castlevania Mafia as examples).

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #489 (isolation #16) » Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:57 am

mykonian wrote:I'm impressed. (bump for MoI)

You missed the sarcasm tags. I tend to agree. That’s a horrible return post by Stef. I really need to go back and look at him again. Sigh.

mykonian wrote:And MoI, you have been suspecting LMP for meta reasons for some time now. I've heard today that LMP can be quite good as town. He clearly isn't here. I believe you are town, and have good itentions, and the addition of the above points against him, I think a LMP wagon might very well a succesful one. I would ask you not to hesitate, and join the LMP wagon.

I appreciate that you think LMP is a good lynch target but please don’t think I’m going to drop a vote so quickly Day 2 just based on assumed goodwill.

@Dana

– don’t think I’ve forgotten your ‘case’ on RC and general play from yesterday. You are still hovering on my radar.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #502 (isolation #17) » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:46 am

LynchMePlease ISO

–

ISO 0 – Claims Miller and immediately votes Stef based on set-up speculation (which we now know is a Null since the Mod clarified the mechanics multiple times during Day 1) and his interaction with XScorp

LMP ISO 1 wrote:What was the problem with Jack? He read pretty town to me.

Interesting early assessment to me based on the flip.

ISO 2 – Calls XScorp Town.

ISO 3 – Presses DP why dana is a better wagon the Stef.

ISO 4 – I feel this is a mis-rep of Dana’s answer to HC’s shoot or don’t shoot Stef question. It ignores the context of HC’s scenario and specifically states that Dana advocates shooting no-one else, which is false. Scum points assessed.

ISO 7-8 – Theoretical discussion with XScorp about whether scum would offer up partners on a To-be-vigged list.

ISO 9 – Votes Dana. Not that since the vote for Stef in ISO 0 has had ZERO direct interacions with Stef. The only thing that has changed is Jack’s fake-claim. Given he called Jack Town above perhaps this is believable.

LMP ISO 10 wrote:I dunno, but hopping right back to RC without any scum hunting inbetween seems like a pretty poor choice.

I think this quote is telling. Read his ISO to this point. He really hasn’t scum-hunted at all. His initial vote is for Stef based on his initial read in. Does not pursue Stef with questions or observations. Mixes it up with dana pretty much solely on how he answered a theoretical question from HC. When Stef is ‘cleared’ immediately jumps to dana and delivers the above stinger.

ISO 11-15 – Posts solely focused at refuting dana’s case on Red. I agree that dana’s case is bad but wonder why the excessive tunnelling.

ISO 16 – Questions if Jack is going to add anything useful to the game. How did he arrive at Jack as Town in the first place if he isn’t adding anything useful?

ISO 17-18 – Despite not one mention of mykonian in the ISO to this point suddenly he is a prime target worth a vote based on mykonian not liking Jack’s play and OMGUS.

ISO 19 – “I’m not letting you manipulate me” – horrible response to mykonian’s post.

ISO 20 – Pulls mykonian’s ‘Jack is Town’ from early on as support for his almost non-existant case.

ISO 21 – Suddenly, after much badgering on my and XScorp’s part, David Parker is ISOed and worthy of a vote. Mykonian as an interaction suspect disappears for the rest of the day.

LMP ISO 23 wrote:Vig Jack is my recommendation.

Suddenly we’ve come full circle and Jack needs Vigged. Despite the fact that Jack was Town in ISO 0, that he believed Jack's claim regarding Stef, and Jack’s case on mykonian was worth a brief vote. And only making a single post inquiring of Jack (ISO 16).

ISO 24 – Echoes my dislike of the immediate Stef votes.

ISO 25 – Response filled with contradictions. Says his ‘case’ on mykonian wasn’t bad, but then asks why bad cases must be from scum. Huh?

Overall the ISO read has reinforced my gut read that LMP is playing very scummy. His interactions tend to be limited to one person at a time. After voting he rarely revisits his suspects. His suspicions flow from Stef to dana to mykonian to David along what is mostly strongly supported public opinion. I don’t see any significant scum-hunting. His inconsistency on people (Jack for instance) also twinges my Scum-dar.

For the record – at this point in the game he’s had almost no interactions with Antihero, RedCoyote and Shotty. This I am storing for later analysis if LMP is indeed scum as I suspect.

VOTE: LynchMePlease

@Stef

– mykonian makes a valid point. You lurked out the pressure once Jack ‘claim’ exonerated you and and have done NOTHING today.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #508 (isolation #18) » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:40 am

LMP wrote:Bad vote MoI.

@MoI: What is your read of mykonian?

LMP wrote:Way to take that out of context. This was after DP claimed goon, so based on their interactions, I thought Jack might be scum. Since DP was clearly lying, that changes things.

LMP wrote:Earlier you claimed that you didn't like my play because it fit with my "scum-meta". What about this case you just made fits with my scum meta?

These three quick responses don’t make me think my suspicions are misplaced in the least.

1. Claim my vote is bad with no support as to why. Then attempts to deflect attention to mykonian.
2. Could you explain how DP’s claim of Goon in any way erased your previous statements (which as I stated I didn’t see really any support for) that Jack was Town?
3. Translation – I can’t dispute the points about my lack of scum-hunting, poorly supported vote hoping and other scummy play so please prove MORE to me.

Your play as scummy is pretty much self-explanatory. IMO, the burden is on you to demonstrate why my case isn’t solid.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #524 (isolation #19) » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:09 am

@Antihero, XScorp, Stef and Shotty – you all are lurking and not providing content. This needs to end stat!

LMP wrote:But now you claim that my play is scummy by itself. Earlier you claimed it was based on meta. Yet you provide no meta to support your claim. If you ask me I don't think my play this game looks anything even CLOSE to what my scum games look like. Granted I'm biased, but I'd love for others to go read my scum games (they're in the wki) because I call BS that your suspicions of me come from meta.

Everyone take close notice to what LMP is doing here. He is once again desperately attempting to shift the focus from his scummy play by any means necessary.

Fact – I’ve stated that your play was reminding me of your scum games.
Fact – This pushes me to review your ISO.
Fact – I find that as a whole your ISO is riddled with scummy play and thus make a case and vote for you.

None of these series of facts obligates me to cross reference directly with scum games of yours.

Once again you aren’t arguing against the facts I laid out in the ISO. You are pulling the classic move of ‘Attack the Attacker’ as opposed to pointing out weakness in the case. All you are doing is asking for more when the proof of your scummy play has already been laid out for scrutiny.

LMP wrote:DP and Jack's interactions looked scummish to me. DP called Jack obv-town multiple times in the game, then suddenly out of the blue he switched to calling Jack scummy. When DP claimed goon, I thought that it made Jack more likely to be scum. Thus I thought Jack's attempt to confirm Stef was a scum gambit. I thought Jack should be vigged. The reason I thought Jack should be vigged was because if he flipped scum then "YEAH!". If he flipped what he claimed, then we have a confirmed townie out of Stef. Thus win win.

Firstly you are only describing DP’s statements towards Jack. For their interactions to look scummy I’d expect to see indications of where Jack’s statements toward DP were scummy. Because otherwise you might have fallen for buddying on scum’s part towards a Town player.

Vigging a player who is Town to confirm another Town player isn’t a sound strategy given that the confirmed player likely could die in the Night thus robbing you of any potential advantage. So it’s certainly not Win-Win.

LMP wrote:Did you have more information than the rest of us? Why were you so sure he wouldn't actually flip scum? And I know you saw all of these interactions, so why are you trying to paint my "vig Jack" statement in a different light?

Another classic scummy move. This entire statement is a soft attempt to infer that I’m scum without being bold enough to directly say it.

1. I’ve seen VI players do that exact same thing before. It usually happens in Newbie but it’s a classic trolling VI move. DP falls in that category for me.
2. Please explain how I was ‘so sure’ of his flip. Because the statement “I’ll wait until the flip before I celebrate” is a far cry from saying “He’s Town who stupidly fake-claimed”
3. Your Vig Jack comment is scummy, as I explained before. Your responses so far don’t change that thought in my mind.

LMP wrote:Ok, I was just ISOing MoI, because I can't figure out if he is opportunistic scum or town that genuinely thinks I'm scum, but I saw this quote in his second to last post:

Here’s a hint – I’m Town that thinks you are scum. The fact that I can’t be opportunistic scum simply because I actually built a supporting case and was the second vote on you seems to elude you.

RedCoyote wrote:Magna's playstyle is very, I don't know, historic? How much success do you have with this, Magna? It's not something I'm accustomed to seeing. I'm always weary of people who do a post-by-post analysis and wind up finding a way to make every post scummy. If you're going to go back and reread someone you think is scummy, there's always that fear of confirmation bias seeping in.

I’m not sure exactly what you mean by historic. I’d like you to define success in this context. Is success Town W-L record? Is success finding scum and being NKed very early based on that reputation? I think my playstyle is successful but I need to know your benchmarks before I answer your question.

If you don’t like PBPA that’s your call. I personal dislike non-supported, gut based play. I'm not going to change my playstyle to suit others.

Overall this post looks more like it belongs in Mafia Discussion than here.

dana wrote:I think it's pretty much guaranteed from their interactions that one, but not both, of mykonian and LMP is scum.

This is a false dichotomy statement that I would expect to see from scum wanting to set-up a future mislynch. A scum who knows mykonian and LMP are Town would definitely want to foster the impression that once one of them flips Town the other should be immediately lynched.

IGMEOY Dana.

That said at this point I’m fairly sure that LMP is scum and about to lose his perfect record of not being lynched.

More votes on LMP please!!!!

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #544 (isolation #20) » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:26 pm

I'm exhausted so I will save my responses until I am clear headed.

Mod - I'll be V/LA til Monday for normal family weekend duties. I'll try to carve some time Saturday night for a good post.

LMP - You continue to not address the issues with your play I posted in my ISO. Burying your head in the sand isn't going to get me off your case.

RC - I'm not liking several things I've seen from you lately.

Shotty - I'll be frank ... stop playing forums Mafia.

I need to look at Antihero in depth when I have the time.

~V/LA noted. I'll operate under the assumption that this is a "every weekend" deal, so its all good.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #552 (isolation #21) » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:55 am

RC wrote:This is ridiculous. With Antihero's last post I'm sensing a dogpile on LynchMePls. No one's even putting forth an effort to think for themselves except for dana here.

Really? A dogpile? At the point you made this post mykonian had more votes that LMP. So your statement makes ZERO sense and looks to be attempting to discredit LMP as a candidate.

RC wrote:I'm still scratching my head as to why this wasn't brought up earlier. Although this is bad, I'm trying to understand where the "very scummy" label lies. If we're going to pick on LynchMePls for flip-flopping on Jack, then why not mykonian? LynchMePls' initial jump into the game is Jack as town, and as the game begins mykonian/David are unafraid to say the same thing. As the game goes on, Jack is more or less being seen in a new light by everyone. Why doesn't this apply to LynchMePls as well?

Why are you ‘scratching your head’ about this being brought up Day 2? LMP made his flip-flop right before the Modscene was posted and Day 1 ended. I don’t see why you are so confused that I brought it up early in Day 2?

Umm … the difference in LMP’s change and mykonian’s are quite different. The ONLY indication from LMP that his opinion changed was his ‘Jack would be a good vig’ post. He called Jack Town in his initial read. He back Jack’s attack on mykonian – not something you do with a scum-read. This was late in the day.

Lastly your ‘LMP did it but so did mykonian / DP did it too’ isn’t a valid defense. If you are saying others should be attacked for the behavior then the implication is that LMP did do it and is scummy.

RC wrote:As to your whole "one person at a time" remark, LynchMePls is addressing multiple people and moving his vote around. While the case can be made that he's doing so without sincerity, I am having trouble reconciling this with some of the meta you provided. I guess I'd have to weigh it against his claim, and they'd probably balance one another out.

You aren’t thinking very clearly about my statement. I’m suggesting the LMP is doing the equivalent of Serial-Tunneling. He focuses on and votes for one player and when he moves suspicions to another the past target is dropped to never re-appear in LMP’s ISO. He’s certainly not interacting with multiple suspicions at once. Town players have every reason to revisit past suspicions.

What meta evidence have I provided again?

RC wrote:Anyways, I'm going to have to table the issue. We have to get rid of some of these players that are being allowed to coast through. LynchMePls isn't part of that group. In fact, LynchMePls' wagon is being allowed to roll along by because the mafia are trying not to rock the boat.

This is scumtastic – you are simply advocating lynching from a large pool of low-activity players as opposed to an actively scummy player. You aren’t making any effort to distinguish between the players in that pool. In a potential MYLO situation pushing off a scummy player for later only suits Mafia interest.

Please explain how LMP’s wagon is rolling along when it topped out at two people.

This is my official notice – If LMP does flip scum (as I think he will at this juncture) then RC is a great candidate for his partner. Doubly so if the travelling Vig dies tonight, since scum know exactly who to target to kill off the role before it can be passed on.

RC wrote:Like I said in that post, I think we might as well choose between the lurkers. There's definitely scum in there, and it's more advantageous than the alternative
(the alternative being Magna is scum or LynchMePls' gave a fake claim).

Emphasis added – I love the false dichotomy here. I do believe LMP made a fake-claim but the way that say that only other option is me being scum is false.

mykonian wrote:reread time. We are at mylo after all.

This makes little sense to me. If the case on LMP was ‘great’ as you stated then regardless of whether we are MYLO a lynch on scum is a good move. That you back off with such weak reasoning is bad.

And Town has NO IDEA if we are in MYLO. We don’t know if we are in a 3 or 2 scum scenario. The more I process the set-up the more inclinded I am to think this is a modified Mountainous scenario, which would make 2-10 the logical set-up. We are only in MYLO under the following scenario –

1. We don’t lynch scum.
2. The Vig kill tonight hits Town
3. We have a 3 scum team.

I don’t see any reason to not approach the day as if it is MYLO but stating outright we are in that scenario is overstating the matter.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #577 (isolation #22) » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:42 am

Welcome CSL and NoPoint

–

@Dana re 574

- This is a horrible post. Responding to a prod with ZERO content is not Pro-Town. If you are worried about the fractured voting make a case for your current vote (mykonian) or decide if another wagon is worthy.

Shotty wrote:You see I've been grounded for the past month so I haven't really thought about my vote much. But im ungrounded tomorow so I will catch up and post like a bitch then

I don’t particularly care what your excuse is. If by the time 24 hours have expired from the timestamp of this post you have not posted CONTENT expect fire and brimstone coming your way. I’m really on my last nerve regarding low performers.

mykonian wrote:Thinking about RC being scum should be done tomorrow: Magna, you are wasting your time there.

I disagree. Whether or not RC is worth full investigation today or tomorrow is a subjective opinion. His play as of late has been note-worthy and thus I’ve brought it up.

RC wrote:I wasn't talking about votes, was talking specifically about the discussion in town. Antihero was setting himself up as though he was ready to jump on LynchMePls out of the blue. With you and mykonian already set on course, three votes, one third of the remaining playerbase, is a formidable pact.

I’m still waiting for the point where you show why mounting pressure on LMP is not a positive thing. And if it revolves around the ‘Speed of the Votes’ premise don’t bother responding. The speed of a wagon is a Null tell regarding the alignment of the wagonee. I can show you direct proof if you want it.

RC wrote:Still seems sketchy. As town I've been known to change my opinion of people, and to call LynchMePls' initial read as, like, something that shouldn't change seems a little harsh.

Straw-man here. I never said that LMP’s initial read shouldn’t change. I draw problems with the way it was consistent (he supported Jack’s attempt to wagon mykonian after Jack’s fake-claim) with a continued Town read up until DavidParker is lynched. Then suddenly wham it’s a Scum read.

RC wrote:It's a decent point, but there's better lynch candidates out there at the moment.

I’ve yet to see a better built case on one of the nebulous ‘better candidates’ appear today. Until I do this sort of statement looks like a further attempt to derail LMPs wagon from a buddy.

RC wrote:Well, you're pandering to fear if you're saying that the town better follow you or we'll lose in MYLO. I seem to recall how scummy you thought David was, which didn't exactly get us in the direction we needed to go. It's completely speculation to say this could be MYLO and call me scumtastic because I'm throwing an alternative wagon up.

1. Please demonstrate where I said ‘Town better follow me or we’ll lose in MYLO’.
2. DavidParker’s play was scummy. I can’t help that he was just playing poorly. Town doesn’t have the inside information that scum does.
3. We certainly can be in a MYLO situation if my Mountainous assumption is incorrect and we mis-vig again tonight. To say that’s not a possibility is either short-sighted or a scum-slip revealing you know scum only do have 2 members.
4. Arguing against LMP’s lynch with tangential arguments and then voting someone else isn’t creating a alternative wagon. Case please.

LMP wrote:The suggestion of RC scum intrigues me, as I've been thinking about it all day. If RC is scum, then the mod's whole purpose for this game is pointless. …

If RC is scum, then I think mykonian is his partner. Mykonian came out early D1 with the "whoever has the vig will be confirmed townie".

1. Why do you think you know exactly what the Mod’s purpose for the game is? He has stated in thread that the Vig kill was RANDOMLY assigned.
2. Mykonian’s statement was made before Mod clarified the full mechanics of the wandering Vig. When he made it I agreed with him. The Mod clarification is one of the reasons I don’t think the early debate between Stef and others on the Vig mechanic is scum hunting worthy – it was all based on incomplete information.

LMP wrote:Does anyone have any idea why Jack fake claimed to try and save Stef? On rereading the game, I just don't understand why he would do that.

Because stupid ass gambits are part of his personal meta. That’s it. I have another perfect example I can share but [REDACTED].

In Regards to LMP’s lynch I’m asking everyone to do the following –

My current working theory is that we are in a 2-10 modified Mountainous set-up. In that case LMP’s Miller claim is a bad claim. So I ask everyone to do the following:

Take what you know based on your role PM and decide if my Mountainous theory makes sense. If you think it does please take a good look at my case on LMP and his responses. If you don’t go looking for a good other lynch.

I don’t want ANYONE directly commenting on this. I don’t want any sort of potential role outing (if I am wrong) to occur based on someone saying “This makes no sense to me”. I repeat – do not quote or comment on my request.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #585 (isolation #23) » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:41 am

LMP wrote:well couldn't we be in a mountainous then and I'm still exactly what I claim? I mean, if there were no cops, then a miller means nothing.

Are you suggesting inadventant Mountainous then? With roles like Poison Doctor with no Poisoner? With three VT flips I find it unlikely. Which is why I think your claim sticks out like a sore thumb currently.

NoPoint wrote:Where is your VCA? It's a bit scummy that you haven't made them.

Let me explain the drivers that trigger me doing a VCA.

1. A scum flip, either by lynch or by Nightkill.
2. A strong pattern in voting that can be analyzed, usually at the end of the Day.

In review of Day 1 voting I don’t see strong enough evidence of clear shifting in voting patterns to warrant putting a VCA together yet. Zang’s Mini is one of the rare cases where driver 2 came into play. Feel free to check around my other games. You will see that my VCAs almost always come after a scum flip.

Antihero ISO Notes –

I see very significant indications of passive play in his early ISO. Many posts quoting a bit of someone’s posts with some commentary. Not a lot of focused questioning

ISO 0 – RVS vote for Jelly (LMP). For future consideration.

ISO 6 – Moves to Stef with a serious vote.

ISO from 6 to 14 is strongly focused on Stef to the exclusion of almost anyone else. Unvotes Stef based on Jack’s fake-claim at 14.

In ISO 16 goes back to Stef stating he doesn’t believe Jack’s claim. In context DavidParker’s wagon has moved to 5 votes when he does this. May be an attempt to make sure he isn’t on a Town mislynch.

ISO 18 – First significant content post … contains a semi-ISO of Stef. I don’t see any evidence it was finished (left off at page 9).

In 22 to 24 has a little interaction with LMP.

Overall a pretty content light ISO. From an interactions standpoint I see almost no interactions with myself, RC, mykonian, dana, or NoPoint’s slots. For further consideration.

Next up – Look at dana in general ISO.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #587 (isolation #24) » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:08 am

danakillsu wrote: Your strange insistence that I should be lynched on top of your attempt to bully town's votes in a much more drastic way than me merits a claim. Do I even need to reiterate that this is nothing like what I have experienced with you in the past?

Um what exactly do you expect from him claim wise? He's already claimed Miller.

Do you expect him to suddenly change his claim?

Or have you paid so little attention to the thread that you didn't even realize he has claimed, despite the large amount of conversation that swirled around it?

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #592 (isolation #25) » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:56 am

Before I think about unvoting I want to see -

1. If RC confirms.
2. If anyone else counter-claims.

Then I'll decide where to go from there.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #613 (isolation #26) » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:18 am

Welcome Carapuce!

RC’s confirmation of the hand-off to LMP puts a new spin on his defense of LMP today. Consider all the pressure of I was applying to him based on his defense nullified by this reveal.

Things we know from the exchange –

LMP and Red can’t be scum together and completely faking the Town hand-off unless Jack or HC was the N1 gunman and Mod did not inform us of this with their deaths. If find this to be an unreasonable option.

LMP and Red can’t be scum together as Red could not have handed the Vig to a partner. Both can be Town but only one can be scum.

I think it makes sense to Mass-Claim if either of Red or LMP are scum and makes some sense if neither are scum.

If LMP is scum and we are not in a Mountainous set-up Town loses tonight if we do not lynch scum today. A mass claim would narrow down some choices that we otherwise might decide to lynch.

If Red is scum then regarding Mass-Claims it seems to me to be advantageous to minimize the chances that LMP hit Town PR tonight with his vig. Again this depends on us not being in a Mountainous setting.

The logic for both holds if both scenarios holds if both are Town. We prevent reduce the chances of a mis-lynch and reduce the chances that LMP his a Town PR at night with his Vig choice.

Based on what I have read I’ll tentatively support a Mass-claim. If we do I suggest typical popcorn procedures with either Shotty, Dana, or Carapuce starting.

LMP wrote:I just realized something. I have to confirm with the mod first that it is ok for me to share this information, but if I'm correct, I think we can settle the RC town/scum question.

Results?

Dana wrote:Wait a sec. Gotta PM the mod.

Reasons and results?

UNVOTE: LMP until the decision to Mass-claim or not is made.

So far I see 4 supports (NoPoint, Red, Shotty and myself) and one objection (mykonian). With 9 players alive I suggest 5 going either way should decide the course of action.

MOD – As usual I will be V/LA from 4pm EDT until Monday for regular family weekend duties.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #656 (isolation #27) » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:10 am

Wow do I have some thoughts - especially since Dana got speed lynched.

VC Analysis incoming also.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #657 (isolation #28) » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:11 am

Also if I see any signs of a quick-day I am going to reach through the internet and strangle the offendingn parties.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #660 (isolation #29) » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:34 am

For the record – anyone who has replaced in has been substituted in all prior VCs for their predecessors. Town players are in blue, scum players are in green. As always I do not color myself Town as I am not universally confirmed.

Spoiler: Day 1 Raw Data –

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #661 (isolation #30) » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:47 am

Spoiler: Day 2 Raw Data –

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #662 (isolation #31) » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:33 am

Day 1 Analysis

In looking at Day 1 there are two main areas to focus – the Stef wagon and the DavidParker wagon.

Antihero’s RVS style vote was for LMP. Noted for the record.

The Stef / CSL / Cara wagon Day 1 as it builds – I removed duplicate VC listings for ease of reading

Carapuce (1) – Nopointinactingup
Carapuce (3) - Nopointinactingup, mykonian,

Haschel Cedricson

Carapuce (3) - mykonian,

Haschel Cedricson

,

Antihero

Carapuce (2) -

Haschel Cedricson

,

Antihero

Carapuce (3) -

Haschel Cedricson

,

Antihero

, LynchMePls
Carapuce (5) -

Haschel Cedricson

,

Antihero

, LynchMePls, mykonian,

danakillsu

This is the point where Jack makes his fake-claim …

Carapuce (3) -

Haschel Cedricson

,

Antihero

, mykonian
Carapuce (1) -

Haschel Cedricson

From an analysis standpoint Antihero joins the Cara wagon right when NoPoint jumps off. He stays there for pretty much the rest of the day. The only non-confirmed players on the wagon with him are LMP and mykonian. Given Antihero’s avoidance of the DP wagon I’m more likely to suspect NoPoint and less likely to suspect LMP and mykonian.

The building of the DP wagon as the Stef / CSL / Cara wagon disintegrates –

Carapuce (5) -

Haschel Cedricson

,

Antihero

, LynchMePls, mykonian,

danakillsu

DavidParker

(2) - MagnaOfIllusion, Nopointinactingup

Carapuce (3) -

Haschel Cedricson

,

Antihero

, mykonian

DavidParker

(3) - MagnaOfIllusion, Nopointinactingup,

RedCoyote

Carapuce (1) -

Haschel Cedricson

DavidParker

(5) - MagnaOfIllusion, Nopointinactingup,

RedCoyote

, drmyshottyizsik, Carapuce

Carapuce (2) -

Haschel Cedricson

,

Antihero

DavidParker

(5) - MagnaOfIllusion, Nopointinactingup,

RedCoyote

, drmyshottyizsik, Carapuce

Carapuce (2) -

Haschel Cedricson

,

Antihero

DavidParker

(7) - MagnaOfIllusion, Nopointinactingup,

RedCoyote

, drmyshottyizsik, Carapuce, LynchMePls, mykonian

First off the answer to your question about why LMP is still alive is laid out right in front of us with the final vote count of Day 1 – every player still alive is on the ending David Parker wagon. Thus the remaining scum must be on there and from a VC analysis standpoint killing Red Coyote assures they don’t narrow down that pool any further.

This fact makes me somewhat more suspicious of NoPoint just from a standpoint he has direct experience with my VC Analysis.

Next let’s look at Antihero’s vote moments as these wagons shift. When Antihero finally moves from Cara he goes directly to Not Voting, completely avoiding the wagon. When he places a vote it goes directly back to Cara. The avoidance of the DavidParker wagon, specifically when it was a mislynch leads me to the conclusion that at least one, if not both, of his partners were already parked on the wagon.

The players on the Wagon in the Vote Count right after Antihero’s unvote are myself, NoPoint, Shotty and Cara.

Based on the timing of the votes my Day 1 VC suspicions are, in order

Tier 1: Carapuce – Potential bussing votes from Antihero and position the DavidParker wagon in relation to Antihero’s unvote.
Tier 2: Shotty and NoPoint – Position on the DP wagon.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #664 (isolation #32) » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:56 am

Day 2 Analysis –

Antihero continues to have his vote parked solidly on Carapuce during the entire day.

Day 2 wagons of greater than 1 person -

Carapuce (2) - mykonian,

Antihero

mykonian (2) -

danakillsu

, drmyshottyizsik

LynchMePls (2) - mykonian, MagnaofIllusion
Carapuce (2) -

Antihero

,

RedCoyote

drmyshottyizsik (1) - Nopointinactingup
mykonian (2) -

danakillsu

, drmyshottyizsik

LynchMePls (2) - mykonian, MagnaofIllusion
Carapuce (2) -

Antihero

,

RedCoyote

drmyshottyizsik (1) - Nopointinactingup
mykonian (3) -

danakillsu

, drmyshottyizsik, LynchMePls

Antihero

(2) - Carapuce,

RedCoyote

mykonian (2) -

danakillsu

, drmyshottyizsik

LynchMePls (2) - MagnaofIllusion, mykonian
drmyshottyizsik (2) - nopointinactingup, CARAPUCE

danakillsu

(2) - LynchMePls, mykonian
LynchMePls (3) - MagnaofIllusion, nopointinactingup,

danakillsu

(2) - mykonian,

RedCoyote

The scattered nature of the day’s voting (no dominate wagons) makes much analysis of the Day fairly unfruitful. I have parked these wagons in this post for future analysis based on other potential scum flips.

Dana’s Wagon – The last two vote counts

danakillsu

(2) - mykonian,

RedCoyote

danakillsu

(5) - mykonian,

RedCoyote

, Carapuce, nopointinactingup, drmyshottyizsik

It’s a pretty hackneyed attack to cry ‘Speed of the Wagon’. In general I stay away from it. However in this case, with a know claimed Tracker, I think it applies. Dana went from two votes to lynched in less than the span of the weekend while I was V/LA.

Shotty’s hammer was horrible.

NoPoint’s placing of dana at L-1 and then decrying the hammer saying ‘we want discussion’ I find suspicious.

In general Shotty is my Tier 1 pick for Day 2 and NoPoint and Cara are my Tier 2.

Next up – response to Day 2 posts I missed and a re-review of my summary of Antihero’s ISO.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #665 (isolation #33) » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:37 am

First off I see no reason not mass-claim at this point. With six alive and two suspected Mafians (my Mountainous theory did not bear fruit) a mis-lynch or mis-vig leads to a scum win.

I suggest the following order –

Shotty
Cara
NoPoint
Mykonian
Myself

LMP has already claimed.

LMP

– I also suggest you tell us who you passed the Vig to. At this juncture if we lynch scum PoE should take us to a victory regardless if the Vig is lost tonight.

Cara wrote:The merit of a massclaim here rests on the assumption that this is infact a mountainous setup. This means that everyone voting LMP must think this is a mountainous setup. I am not fully acclimated to this game but I would bet my bottom dollar that anyone voting LMP who disagrees with this being mountainous is a mafia.

The merit of a mass-claim was to minimize the chances of a bad lynch (which happened anyway) and narrowing down the field for the Vig kill – which turned out good since Antihero got nailed.

Cara wrote:I still think that scorpion, who apparently also quit playing and now is being played by NAU is mafia. What is very interesting is that if NAU is mafia, I see zero way for the doc to also be mafia.
The fact that people are trying to control the vig kill is stupid as well, that means at any point there are at least a few mafia people who get to influence a second kill.
There are limitations on who is stupid to be killed, but for the most part you should treat this like a normal vig.

1. Posted close on the heels of RC calling for Antihero to be vigged. The bolded portion reads as a bad attempt to discredit RC’s shot choice. Note that neither of his ‘scum pics’ in dana or NoPoint was making any attempt to influence where LMP shot.
2. Note the inference that Shotty isn’t Mafia based on dana and NoPoint being scum.
3. Lastly, despite his repeated insistence that NoPoint is scum I do not see a single NoPoint vote from Cara. Classic FOS partner, vote Town scenario.

Cara wrote:My theory here is that RC and LMP are town, you did not claim cop because you guessed that there would be a cop due to the miller, but hoped to either get RC lynched or get a read on who the cop is.

This is plain stupid. If dana as a theoretical Mafian (which we know is not true) wanted to get a read on who the Cop might be by fake-claiming he would have fake-claimed Cop. Whatever theory you are floating here is full of fail.

NoPoint wrote:My mafia picks are LMP, YOU and ANTI, though your post is looking better. I will not make you happy.

Reposting this for further reference. You in this case is Cara. Not that despite this list he ends up voting for dana.

NoPoint wrote:Dana's claim is definitely fake claim. RC makes good points about him believing Miller claim despite "being tracker". LMP, give the Vig ability back to RC tonight else you'll be branded as scum the following day.

Dana’s being a Tracker has no bearing on whether she should believe a Miller claim. Bad logic here.

Also note the threat to LMP regarding passing the Vig to RC. I’m not sure that this wasn’t a botched attempt to get the Vig power eliminated.

Don’t have time right now to go through interactions between Antihero and my top candidates (Cara’s slot, Shotty’s slot, NoPoint’s slot). Will do so tomorrow.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #679 (isolation #34) » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:19 am

Shotty wrote:Well anti died, and was scum... great.
I also see that I'm in quite a bad perdiciment here...

That was a bad hammer yesterday yes, and it may get me lynched today, but I think over all it got things moving today.

As for my top scum pick for today I think it would have to be NoPoint and then Cara

Emphasis added. That statement is HORRIBLE. We are on Day 3. There is plenty of things that otherwise would trigger discussion (you know, like Anti’s scum flip) so attempting to mimize the hammer is scummy.

And I’m taking direct note of your suspicions. You say NoPoint is your top suspicion followed by Cara.

Shotty wrote: he's also really new, maybe he just doesnt know better
but i guess he is our best chance
unvote
vote cara

And yet the vote goes to Cara, your second suspect. You don’t even question or attack NoPoint.

Shotty wrote:unvote
vote MyK
please stop sheeping me!!!

Um, what?

1. You are the one sheeping him.
2. If you don’t suddenly think Cara is scum why vote for mykonian rather than your number 1 suspecte NoPoint.

Cara wrote:That is not why people massclaim. People massclaim because they think that the information gained by the town will outwiegh the information gained by the mafia. The other scenario is in a lynch or lose situation. If those are your reasonings for a massclaim in this setup, you should have pushed for one right out of the gate to avoid a night one miss-vig.

The whole point of my suggestion was that Town would gain more in the way of information. That you fail to see that is a difference of opinion.

And your last statement is clearly false. The possible loss in a 3 scum scenario at Night 2 due based on a mislynch (which you helped along, BTW) and a misvig made a mass-claim worthwhile. Straw-manning to say that I should have pushed for it Day 1 ignores the situation Town was in.

Cara wrote:1. Stupid does not equate mafia. Having everyone put discussion in allows mafia to not only manipulate the direction of the kill, but also to setup whatever countermeasures they deem necessary. Also nice that you are ignoring people saying to kill me (myk), doc (myk) and myk (LMP). You are applying the parts that suggest me being mafia, but ignoring identical parts that suggest otherwise (unless you are suggesting a five player mafia group).

This whole argument is a Strawman. You said that directing the Vig kill was stupid because “that means at any point there are at least a few mafia people who get to influence the second kill”. Yet the only people attempting to influence the kill were RedCoyote and mykonian. LMP can’t argue to influence the kill since it was HIS TO BEGIN WITH. You suggested people chiming in was bad because of nebulous ‘Mafia influence’ when the players you suggested were Mafia didn’t attempt to influence LMP’s shot.

I’d love to see how you are suggesting I believe in a five person Mafia. Really I would.

Cara wrote:2. Ok so now your theory is that im mafia and knew that dana wasnt mafia, so I attempted to clear shotty on something that would be immediately disproven?

Yet another Straw-man. How is NoPoint being Mafia able to be immediately disproven again? That was your argument … that NoPoint being Mafia makes Shotty not Mafia. You being Mafia and knowing dana was Town has really little to do with your argument.

Cara wrote:3. Timelines are key. I say that Scorpion is mafia while reading. When I get done reading dana claimed and was essentially countered by two people. I state that I still want NAU killed at night, but that the proven mafia should be lynched first. If dana did not claim, I would not have voted him over NAU.

Yet no-one countered Dana. They argued his logic was bad (which it was) and asserted the claim was fake (which it wasn’t). No-one provided concrete evidence that indicated that Dana was Proven Mafia.

Cara wrote:Not necessarily. If he did not screw up his claim, he might not have been lynched. At the same time, a cop role would likely react oddly given that it was likely fake, but they would not want to claim in the case that it was real.

Dana did not screw up his claim. He claimed to have been a tracker who watched RedCoyote to Jack and no-one else. His conclusions sucked ditch-water but there was nothing in the claim that read to me as obviously false. Unfortunately scum managed to quick-lynch him before I got a chance to provide input.

NoPoint wrote:I wasn't there when all this happened @@

Way to miss the point. You were here for the Night 2 Mafia kill. Thus if you were Mafia you would know that RedCoyote was Town off the wagon. Thus killing him would keep the pool of both potential scum (I’m back to thinking we are 3 scum-team since this is not a modified Mountainous settting) as obscured as possible on the DP wagon.

NoPoint wrote:good analysis. But then Tier 2 would have to contain you as well.

Just because I don’t present myself as cleared Town in the VCs doesn’t mean I’m going to ignore my Town role PM

Treat me however you want in your own VC Analysis.

NoPoint wrote:Then why should LMP claim to whom he passed the ability to? I disagree.

Because it absolutely clears LMP and whoever he passed it to of being partners. Information like this can help in a PoE scenario.

NoPoint wrote:Are you saying we should vote for anyone we think is mafia since the start of the day? My vote for Dana was pressure on his claim.

1. You listed three suspects but didn’t vote for them. Also you pre-distanced yourself from one of them (Cara) with your softening statement.
2. What did you hope to accomplish with your pressure? Dana had already claimed. You can certainly drill a player with questions just as easily with the threat of your vote as you can after the vote is already posted. All your pressure accomplished was to allow a bad hammer.

NoPoint wrote:Wrong. Tracker + Miller rarely goes together.

You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. Seriously. This sort of stupid thinking is exactly what Mods specifically build set-ups to punish.

I should know – Kdub and I specifically included a Miller with no Cop but a Tracker in Castlevania Mafia.

No player with any sort of sense should be assume that one role in any non-open setup indicates that any other role does or does not exist. Go read SFG’s thread in GD revolving around Millers and Cops.

NoPoint wrote:You have to bring up something this irrelevant??

Every bit of information is potentially relevant.

NoPoint wrote:In other thoughts, when dana flipped tracker I was afraid we were going to lose the game with LMP-scum claimed miller. But LMP shot scum when he could have won the game if he was scum. Thus, there's no doubt LMP is confirmed town ( and this is bastard set-up == ). MOI-town could have easily seen this but he fails to see this as he doesn't green his LMP. Looking at the remaining players, I'd have to say the remaining scums are Carapuce and MOI.

Insert epic face-palm pic here.

LMP is not 100% cleared of being scum. I don’t see any reason why the set-up can’t still be a 2 scum set-up. Is it likely? No. But in a 2 scum set-up LMP could have Vigged his partner (since RedCoyote had all but threatened him with lynch if he didn’t shoot Antihero) and coasted to victory on the cred. Especially since a 2 man Scum team would not insure Scum victory if he defected and shot Town. Otherwise LMP's refusal to vig Antihero links them too closely together.

Do I think that’s what happened? No I do not. LMP, despite his play Day 1, looks to be my strongest Town read right now based on how Night shook out. I'm back to thinking we are in a traditional 3 scum set-up since my Mountianous set-up speculation has proven to be incorrect. But stating that he is 100% cleared when you don’t know for certain the set-up is false. Unless of course you do know for certain that there are 3 scum since you are on the team.

mykonian wrote:I have found out that Carapuce is obvscum. You should vote Carapuce. Read it, it is obvious. Antihero actually knows that Stef is scum, if you see the case that he makes on him. The points are correct, but only make sense from the point where you already know that Carapuce is scum. VC analysis incriminates carapuce even more.

This would be a rather epic level of distancing from Antihero. I personally don’t have any direct experience with him that tells me whether he is likely to do so. Which is why I’m going back to look at Antihero’s posts with his known scum-status in mind.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #680 (isolation #35) » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:20 am

Forgot to mention -

@Carapuce

- Why are you not voting for your Number 1 scum read in NoPoint?

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #681 (isolation #36) » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:56 am

Re-review of Antihero’s ISO for interactions –

ISO 0 – RVS vote for LMP’s slot.
ISO 1 – Mentions Stef is at most guilty of starting a distracting theory debate but then states that Stef had backed off.
ISO 3 – Questions Xscorp about his opinion on unsupported lists. Xscorp was questioning DavidParker’s lists.
ISO 6 – Votes for Stef for his attack on Xscorp.

Antihero ISO 7 wrote:
Stef wrote: Or is it just easy to jump on the biggest wagon while bringing no contribution?
That wasn't the reason for my vote. Also, no contribution?

Stef states that Antihero is jumping on his wagon and brought nothing to the table. Antihero’s only attacks was at ISO 6 for his strange vote on XSorp. This wasn’t an original idea at the point Anti made his ISO 6 post.

ISO 9 – Antihero attacks Stef’s vote on Imaginality (Shotty) as crappy since imaginality was inactive. Defense of potential partner in Shotty?

Antihero ISO 10 wrote:The former. If imaginality wasn't posting, why not just ask for the prod and ask when he picks up the prod? Instead, Stef placed a vote, not knowing if imaginality just wasn't checking this site (in which case the "pressure" vote is full of fail). Now, if imaginality was prodded, picked up his prod, and still hadn't posted, I think the vote would be well justified.

Reads to me as overjustification. Voting for an inactive as opposed to going through the motions of asking a Mod for a prod hardly seems scummy to me. I could see the connections go either way. Either a strong distance / bus of Cara’s slot or a soft defense of Shotty’s slot.

Antihero ISO 15 wrote:Looking back, and without considering Jack's claim, Stef is still looking pretty scummy to me. You sure you're reading your alleged role PM right, Jack?

Now, I have been procrastinating on the whole dana-RC thing, mostly because the text walls make my eyes bleed. I'll sit down and read those when I get the chance.

1. The bolded statement reads to me as someone who absolutely knows that Jack is fake-claiming. Which Anti would if he is Stef / Cara’s partner.
2. In hindsight his avoidance of the whole dana / RC issue (when we know both are Town) is a pretty big clue.

Antihero ISO 16 wrote:After some thought, I'm not buying the Jack claim.

No reasons why he does not buy it. And repositions himself clearly off the DP wagon as noted in the VC Analysis.

ISO 18 – Makes a case for scum Stef here. You can read for yourself but the reasons Stef is scum are as follows.

1. The debate between Stef and mykonian (and others) regarding the Vig mechanic. Given that the Mod clarified on at least 2 occasions how the mechanic worked I don’t see anything scummy about that.
2. The Xscorp FOS, Vote, and OMGUS argument.
3. Defense of Stef’s votes.
4. Consistently doesn’t provide reasons why things are scummy (which pretty much sums up this post by Anti as well – no scum motivations highlighted that I can see)
5. Nitpicking.

Overall I don’t see that case as very likely to convince anyone, which makes it a great distancing move.

ISO 19 – Day 2 comes out voting for Stef again.
ISO 23–24 - The gearing up for a jump to LMP, as noted by RedCoyote Day 2.
ISO 25-26 – Some minor interactions with Shotty.

In summary –

Reviewing his ISO his attacks on Cara’s slot are generally weak. He soft-defends NoPoint’s slot and has very soft, almost coaching interactions with Shotty.

I can see Antihero as bussing / distancing from Cara after reviewing the ISO.
I’m unsure on NoPoint and Shotty … too little interactions to say anything definitive.

Reviewing NoPoint / Xscorp for interactions with Antihero –

Xscorp –

XScorp has the bad habit of not attributing quotes so this isn’t an easy process

The first sign of interaction I see between the slots is ISO 42 where Xscorp questions Antihero about not voting for DP if he isn’t giving content.

ISO 46 – Calls out Anti for ‘dodging’ his Shotty questions.

NoPoint –

ISO 1 – Calls Antihero ‘Slightly Scummy’ for Town meta reasons. Other scum reads are Cara’s slot ‘Slightly scummy’ and LMP ‘Scummy’.
ISO 3 – Puts Anti on his Mafia picks list with LMP and Cara.

Not a ton of significant interactions. I do find telling in NoPoint’s favor that he included both Anti and Cara on his scum list.

Reviewing imaginality / Shotty for interactions with Antihero –

Imaginality – None, but given his ISO is 4 posts long that his hardly surprising

Shotty –

Shotty ISO 5 wrote:jUST FYI, i LEARNED THIS THE HARD WAY. aNSWER HIS QUESTIONS OR YOU WILL BE AUTO SCUM TO HIM AND GET TUNNLED LIKE HELL

This is in response to Xscorp calling out Anti and dana for dodging questions. Given that all caps is not part of his general posting style this stands out to me.

That’s it. Nada. Nothing.

Conclusion –

If Antihero was in fact heavily bussing Cara then I think he was much more likely to have little interacton with his other partner (assuming 3 scum).

I think Shotty fits the bill much better than NoPoint in that regard.

I want to see LMP’s thoughts on the matter before I vote for Cara.

I dislike having an inactive vote.

VOTE: Shotty for the moment.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #683 (isolation #37) » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:05 am

mykonian wrote:MoI.

Do you trust me?

I give you as much trust as I can. You aren't on my likely scum list via VC Analysis.

Things like rushing this Day make me wonder but I'm willing to put that aside for other unspoken reasons.

So yes I do.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #685 (isolation #38) » Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:10 am

mykonian wrote:Then please, no massclaim. Lets do this with simple and decent scumhunting.

I have no real intention to rush the day, though I wouldn't mind it being short if we lynched scum. Cara is obvscum, so I don't mind if we lynch him now or in a week.

Ok, at this juncture I will drop my push for a massclaim if that is what you are asking me to trust you on. You have certainly got enough banked with me for that.

I'd rather whatever lynch happens be in a week unless the game absolutely stagnates.

I guess at some point soon a Stef re-read is in order.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #698 (isolation #39) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:32 am

Cara wrote:NAU is still mafia. This week is bad for me though getting up a case on him being mafia wise. I will most likely not be free for more then a 30 minute period until friday.

Cara wrote:Because I have not made a case yet. I do not like to start voting people without having a case as to why they are mafia out. Had a midterm today, have to run an Atterberg Limit lab for the undergrads tomorrow, after that I should be able to make it.

These two conflicting quotes lead me to call total bullshit on your reasoning. You at the start of the Day assert with clear conviction that NoPoint is Mafia. If you haven’t built a case how do you KNOW he is Mafia? If your answer is Gut then don’t bother responding. And you had no qualms about voting Dana with no ‘case’ made on her Day 2.

The fact that you are hesitant to do so without building a case leads me to believe that the flak Stef got for doing that action on Day 1 (voting for Xscorp and then building a case) has you fearful of the reaction.

Cara wrote:I am a bodyguard which apparently is like a doctor expect if I save someone I die instead of the person that I saved. I did not get told what the person that I replaced did during the first night so I asked the mod what they did and he said that they did nothing. Upon further questioning they did not submit an action, not actually say that they were not going to use their action. On the second night I decided to bodyguard RC who somehow still died. I asked the mod if he actually got my action and he said yes. When I asked why RC died he said he would not tell me. I do not know why RC died at this point unless I was roleblocked, which does not make any sense to me since why would I be the person that gets roleblocked in a situation like this but that is the only way I can think that I should not be dead right now instead of RC.

Noted for future potential claims. The only way this makes any sense is if a Town role-blocker targeted you. Especially given your play yesterday. Because LMP would be a more logical choice for a Scum role-blocker. Unless, of course, the Vig ability can’t be blocked. Or the small chance that LMP is indeed scum.

Shotty wrote:unvote
vote cara
This is my choice do not say i was sheeped

For the last time NO-ONE IS SUGGESTING IN THE LEAST THAT YOU WERE SHEEPED BY ANYONE!

Everyone is saying you are sheeping the largest wagon.

I note that everyone of you posts lacks any sort of reasoning WHY you think said player is scum.

Just stop playing Mafia. You are not nearly as smart as you think you are.

NoPoint wrote:Dana did screw up his claim. His claim was perfectly consistent with RC yet he kept saying RC was scum.

No, his claim matched perfectly with RC’s statements. What he screwed up was the inference, apparently based on Mod statements, that RC was scum because he did not see the Vig hand-off. Not taking into account that the Vig hand-off was after Night does not mean he made a bad claim. It means he made bad conclusions.

NoPoint wrote:So you're calling Myko, Cara, me, Shotty scum? Be specific. Who do you think is scum jumping on the Dana wagon and why?

Read the thread before asking pointless questions. I’ve already identified Cara, you and Shotty as likely scum based on Day 1 and Day 2 VC and interactions.

And are you seriously asking for reasons why jumping on the bandwagon and securing a quick-lynch on Dana makes those on late scummy?

NoPoint wrote:You really think I was scum going through all the trouble of making a parallel VCA ( which I can hardly do ) just to figure out how to foil your VCA?

Nope Tex. They wouldn’t need to as they already know who is Town and who is scum. All they would have to do is look at the final vote-count and see that RC was the only non-scum off the DP wagon. Ta-da.

Nice attempt to obfuscate the issue.

NoPoint wrote:Insert epic face-palm pic here.

I see you aren’t going to address the issues I raised and instead go for a deflection attempt. Noted.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #711 (isolation #40) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:06 am

If Cara does not flip scum I will be highly disappointed. This qualifies as rushing the f'in Day.

I'm especially not happy to see LOL coming from LMP after he votes Cara right now.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #778 (isolation #41) » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:29 pm

Thanks for the game Kunk - it was an interesting mechanic that I'm sure can be adapted to other roles / games.

I'm not enamored of my effort this game. I didn't really get any effective hunting going until Antihero died and the VC analysis pointed to both the remaining scum in the Cara - NoPoint - Shotty group.

But by then Mykoninan was so dead set in quick-ending the day it became moot.

I was suspicious of NoPoint when he started taking pot-shots Day 3 attempting to discredit my analysis in any way he could. NoPoint made the absolutely correct choice in killing me over Myk. I would certainly have taken more time Day 4 after two straight days of rushed lynches.

Shotty stop playing Mafia. Seriously. You've offically made my Mod blacklist. I have yet to see you play a single game in a manner that can be considered better than incompetant. And I will be replacing out of any non-Large game that I encounter you in. In large games I will get you lynched. You are that detrimental.

RedCoyote - The minute LMP claimed to have the Vig and you confirmed it I understood completely why you were defending him so hard. Totally clear ... I've played in games where I've had to make arguments I didn't 100% believe in for strategic reasons (Clash of Kings Mafia).

Jack - Your gambiting is pointless. You may claim to have had a great read Day 1 but what did your gambit accomplish? You took the heat off of one Mafia player and spent the rest of the day pushing on Myk, the only non-Mafian on your scum list. Not to mention your obvious lie undermined any credibility you had with Town. Constantly making fake-claims Day 1 puts you in a select group with Zwet IMO.

Mykonian - I think as a Cop I understand some of your behavior that made me uneasy. That said your absolute need to end Day 3 so quickly without letting discussion develop was bad, even with a confirmed guilty. NoPoint's actions surrounding the dana lynch and his subsequent defense were worth continued discussion. And immediately voting Shotty (who you had a Innocent scan on) Day 4 simply because you feared a Godfather was a poor choice.

David Parker - I read you questioning about why you were lynched Day 1 in the Dead QT. Do you seriously wonder why? You contributed nothing of value to the Town at all. My push on you after the Stef wagon fell apart was pure Policy lynch. I just didn't call it that and wrapped it in a wrapper of your bad gameplay.

LynchMePls - I really don't understand you sometimes. I've directly seen stellar gameplay from you as scum. My attack on you was 100% genuine. With your miller claim I absolutely thought it was fake and we were in a modified mountainous setting. I really thought you played scummy Day 1. I guess I'll throw this in my meta jar for you personally.

Dana - Your rushed lynch was bad (and had all 3 scum who joined it rapidly) but your attack on RedCoyote made no sense. You didn't consider that your scan results didn't confirm him as scum.

I look forward to seeing most of you in future games.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #781 (isolation #42) » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:49 pm

Haschel Cedricson wrote:I don't get a comment?

Honestly you didn't last long enought to be top of mind

I'd really have to play with you again to get a good feel for your play.

That said I can't come up with any solid complaints.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #784 (isolation #43) » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:13 pm

Robocopter

- No one cares. I've seen this mechanic before on other sites. You are not some grand originator. Kunk deserves all the credit in making HIS game.

LMP

- By scum meta I really was referencing your play in Castlevania Mafia. From my perspective you were playing a very similar game. Probably a case of confirmation bias.

And no - Your statement about DP scum implying Jack scum makes absolutely no sense to me.

The Miller claim when replacing in was a very Townie move. It didn't, however, outweigh all the things that I saw and attacked in your Day 1 play.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #786 (isolation #44) » Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:00 pm

LynchMePls wrote:DP calls Jack obv-town all game.
Jack claims a role that proves a scummy person is town.
Suddenly DP calls Jack scum.
DP claims scum.

I don't know how you can't think this makes Jack a pretty decent choice for scum. And even if you don't think it makes him more likely scum, how you turn that into "the person saying that must be scum". Also, as I stated, if the vig flip shows he is telling the truth, it clears Stef, which removes a mislynch target from the game (not ideal but not terrible). If he flips scum, YEAH!

Where we have the disconnect here involves the quality and reliability of any information provided by DavidParker.

1. His Mafia claim is the kind of VI play I've seen elsewhere.
2. He admitted his early reads basically were thrown off the cuff with no real reason. If anything he was buddying up to a vet player early on.

And your call for his vig based on the outcomes fails on one critical front -

1. You didn't include option 3 - he was lying as Town in a pointless gambit. That destroys any upside vigging Jack would provide for Town.