Mini 1041: Wheel of Fortune Mafia (Game over!)

[Tasky]

hi everybody... I replace Me=Weird.
Charlie and FakeGods actions look genuine. I think we should trust them for now.
I am still curious what CKD is up to... we'll see. I do not understand FG's problem with answering his questions though.

for now I am just going to do this:
VOTE: PieMan

I want you (PieMan) to tell me why you think I am voting you. let's see if you can guess.

[Tasky]

for now I am just going to do this:
VOTE: PieMan

Not until you unvote Reckamonic, you're not.

right.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: PieMan

Im going to assume, your voting me for my last post, which no one realized was in reference to a statement by Charlie, that was worded very strangely, and suggests that Charlie may know more than he has said, about the alignment of players, beyond FG and Himself.

nope. try again. (but now that you say so, that post is indeed a little scummy. not the original reason for my vote though)

Sup tasky? Let's try not to replace outta this one, k?

Hi. nice to meet again. I shouldn't be replacing out soon, no long V/LAs in sight.

Also, I'm going to go ahead and call bullshit on this post. Blatant wagoning much?

wait. what exactly are you labeling as bullshit? and why aren't you voting me for it?
yeah, I am wagoning. problem with it? I like the PieMan-wagon.

[Tasky]

It's scummy because "if and when" makes it sound like charlie thinks I'm town, but he just said I was anti-town (which pieman probably took as scum, but with charlie I know better )
That in conjunction with the fact that you did something similar very recently where you went all over the place with something small (your little question you kept asking and asking) it looks like you're trying hard to push a case that is not there and derail the town from scumhunting, therefore you seem like you are scum IMO.

now it's my turn to call you out on bullshit!
I saw CKD's point as completely legitimate.
where exactly do you see the connection between the questioning of FG/Charlie and the attack on PieMan?

@tacsky Im not doing your work for you, either cite your reason, or I find your actions very scummy and vote worthy.

my name is Tasky! not to difficult to spell, spell it right.
wow... you seem confident. well, I'll keep my vote on you then. your post confirmed to me that you are indeed scum! thank you

[Tasky]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tasky

Wont even state why hes voting.

yes, that's true. so what? why exactly is that scummy?

Let's look at the Pieman bandwagon. Well, there's two good customers on it: Curiouskarmadog reads as town. Reckamonic reads as town. The guy called Pieman is being defended too much by Xite in post 172 (you're next on the lynch list as far as I'm concerned, Xite), and Pieman was weaksauce attacking Charlie for the when and if thing.

Vote: Pieman

would you mind rephrase this post? I honestly didn't really understand your point here.

I didn't see them as legit because it looked like nitpicking (as did pieman's) but CKD seems to be trying REAL hard to derail the scumhunting process based on his ISO

now this is serious bullshit. you think CKD's intention was derailing scumhunting with his question-thing on Charlie/FG. you can't really believe that?
I don't know whether CKD really had anything there or if he just wanted to get town cred, or what else. but his point is completely legitimate until proven otherwise. he obviously had some inside information and the wording of the claim didn't match it, so he asked for a clarification?
I really think you are misrepresenting people here.
UNVOTE: VOTE: Xite91

[Tasky]

@ tasky at the least its anti-town, since there is no case for the accused to explain why you are wrong.

I want to see whether you can guess it... after all, pro-town players do scummy things too, so if you were a pro-town player, you could help say what you think you did that could be thought of as scummy.
hey, we have to do

something

to scumhunt, no?

[Tasky]

wow... the way of playing on this site really IS dogmatic (it's not just you guys, don't take this personally. I witnessed the same thing in other games too)... you are so fixed with your usual ways of playing that you don't open up to new things...
I know it can be difficult, but try...

well, I won't have much choice but adapt soon.
since you took all the pressure off PieMan, he won't respond the way it would give tells, I'll stop with that thing... (well, actually I just stopped, since I really find Xite scummy and my attack on PieMan was more a response-fishing-thing)


BUT: making the town play guessing games is NOT anti-town...
here some theory behind it:

theory box

when confronted with a question where you don't know the "right" answer, a townie will just answer truthfully and say their honest opinion.
a scumbag on the other side, will fear to say something wrong and will have a hard time to decide on a useful guess.
in fact, a mafioso has to be really balanced between saying pro-town things which would then lead to his incrimination (since the original question was to spot scummy things on himself) and disguising the own scumtells. finding a good balance is extremely hard when you know about all the wrong things you did, since you never know whether the other players have already found it (in which case it would be better to say) or not (in which case it would be better to hide it)
playing guessing games is not much about the content of the guess, it's more about the overall reaction.
I think this is one of the few advantages there are in online-mafia over real-life: that you can ask people about their own behavior in a serious way (since even forgotten things can sometimes be found again by a scumhunter who rereads the thread, the balance I described above is much harder to find)

[Tasky]

Dropping in here to say I'll be too busy to pay attention to this site for one or two days because of lab work.

VOTE: PieMan
Don't know why all the pressure seem to be shifting to others all the sudden.

FoS: brianj

. vote Xite91-scum or die!

[Tasky]

VOTE COUNT

brianj (2): Charlie, Oman
curiouskarmadog (1): Xite91
PieMan (3): Reckamonic, Tasky, brianj
Reckamonic (1): yabbaguy
Tasky (1): PieMan
Xite91 (2): curiouskarmadog, Prof. Guppy
Not voting (2): FakeGod, Tazaro

With

12

players alive, it takes

7

votes to lynch.

I voted Xite:

UNVOTE: VOTE: Xite91

[Tasky]

@Xite:
you are totally misrepresenting CKD... you say he did that question hammering thing in order to delay scumhunting, which obviously isn't true. look back, it's clear that he hadn't got an answer, it was his right to pretend one.
I don't know what he is going to do with that answer, maybe he IS scum, but then he is for other reasons (haven't seen anything major so far).
what you are doing is just creating stuff out of nothing to attack him, not good.

I voted Xite:

UNVOTE: VOTE: Xite91

Actually, no you didn't. Prove me wrong. Link it.

huh.

..

[Tasky]

why do I feel like that theory box is a blatant lie?

explain what you think is a lie there.
how can a theory thing be a lie? I could be wrong with my opinion, but how am I supposed to lie?

[Tasky]

Then why didn't he ask me why he was voting me? Instead of just saying "oh, xite's terribly scummy (for... uh scumhunging?)"

just because one scumhunting technique is legitimate, it doesn't mean I have to use it always...
it's important to change your methods often, otherwise they just get ineffective

[Tasky]

that has to do with me questioning a tactic that a player believes in but doesn't use every time he blatant wagons (his vote on me wasn't a blatant wagon, as stated above, but this isn't the first time I've seen it, like I said, here are games he's done it that are completed, this one he asked and said it was a new technique, but read the last url, he didn't here, and he didn't ask why here. this one is the most important to make my point though.)
There's my defense of asking tasky what was going on, also, he didn't correct me to say that his vote on me wasn't a blatant wagon...

I really didn't understand this. could you explain again?
please state your thesis, your arguments, and state why those arguments support your thesis.

if a wagon on you forms, I'm happy. if that's what you mean by blatant wagoning, well, then I am blatant wagoning.
otherwise no, my vote on you is not blatant wagoning. you are scum => I vote you.

[Tasky]

Oman, your post is so full of crap it hurts.

[*]brianj: The worst thing I could say about braianj is that ...

... is that? what? finish your sentences please

[*]Charlie: This dude has attained semi-confirmed status quite easily because of the softclaim. The way I see it there are only three outcomes, one is that they're not fully confirmed, two is that

they're scum pulling a gambit, which doesn't seem likely at all

, and three is that we now have two confirmed town. I'll you what, it's a great outcome for us,

because if one comes up scum, the other is likely town

, and while they're both alive, they're both likely town. So for now I'm happy to give Charlie my tick, but we'll see. Really comes out of his shell at post #87 where he suddenly has a lot more confidence and posts big explainations. Why the change here?

It almost feels like the gambit is working, so he pipes up a little.

It just doesn't fit. Post #91 is really interesting because it's the inside man's view. Let's assume Charlie is town for now: he posts about reactions to himself, giving a different perspective. It's also really dangerous because he's emotionally involved. That line

If I could day-kill anyone, it would be him at this point.

What an odd comment.

My biggest problems are that he said "Mason-like". There was no mention of confirming two players, which would have been the first thing out of my mouth as a town player making the call to softclaim

.

I also hate the "useless" thing.

those two sententes are a little contradicting each other, aren't they?

this is total crap. they both confirmed each other. a townie would no reason to lie. therefore they are either both town or both anti-town (or we have a bastard mod, but if I remember right we excluded this).

what is so odd about it? is odd=scummy? if yes, how? if no, why bother with it?

what didn't you like?

Charlie probably hoped to find his partner without outing themselves, or at least wanted to keep the option open to not reveal himself

[*]curiouskarmadog: CKD has this skeptical outlook, that lead to a lot of questions about the roles. Then he really fires up. I don't know about alignment on that.

Note #156 as a CKD defense of Xite.

Nothing serious. Oh man, after what happens page 8+ you guys have bigger issues.

what is so noteworthy about it? is it scummy? is it a town-tell? something else?

[*]FakeGod: vote going to the highest bandwagon in the RVS is cool. Nulltell. #30's comment of "my role is as useless as [charlie's]" sucks for a softclaim too.

lol reck, you're just jealous cuz I got a buddy

I know this is throwaway line, but that's where the good stuff happens, when it wasn't planned out.

You use A) the term "buddy" which in mafia nomenclature never has a good meaning (buddy-up, scumbuddy, buddy comedies staring owen wilson). And to say it to Reckamonic, who is a Hydra anyway. Just seems...odd. I know, friendly social rah rah rah, but sometimes it's just too odd.

We had a good reason. Trust me.

And what did I say about rolefishing discussing about me and Charlie? hmmm?

I hate this

"you're not allowed to discuss us! even though we're the only critical thing in the game so far!"

I also had a huge amount of problems with post #68 where he comes forward and says "we are both mod-confirmed town" but it takes charlie so much longer to get that out. I'm still not sure it is mod confirmed. Especially when his next comment is "I was able to figure it out from my Role-PM" (#75)

you keep pointing out odd things, find scummy stuff. or if you want, pro-town-tells (but I wouldn't always share those). what you are saying there is bullshit: it's so not game relevant. why is scum more likely to use the word buddy than town?

Hey, if he says so, he is either lying (and is scum), or there is absolutely no reason not to believe him. if he is town, he doesn't want to confuse us (at least this is what I hope and expect). the fact that your are still doubting this is starting to get scummy. it could be that you fear to confirmed town are too much for you to handle, so you try to discredit them. it you think they are scum, say so. bring arguments. but, in that case they are BOTH scum

Is it scummy? if yes, why?[/u]

[*]Oman Obvtown

lol

[*]PieMan: This guy does one of the biggest scumtells I've seen, dodges RVS without reason. He votes for backup mod, and then at #20 jumps on this "RVS sucks" bandwagon that is completely arbitrary.

Yabba, why push it further and try to discern anymore of their roles, when more info about everyone's roles, at this point is detrimental.

old school psychology. Doesn't hold water. Check again.

is old psychology = scummy?

[*]Tasky replaces Me=Weird.

Tasky strikes me as a bit of a jerk. He's really arrogant in his first post #135. Theory box is jerky, posts are jerky, dogma comments are jerky.

Tasky just reminds me of every spammer that we find out later is playing 2 accounts in a game or just wastes time. I don't really feel like I have a lot of time for the guy, that said,

he does seem pretty sharp. I mean, he's thinking, which is good news.

And there seems to be enough respect that this game will play out well.

Even through out differences, we could play a strong game, Tasky.

Now are you with me or against me?

are you trying to buddy up to me?

I always respect the players I play with. should I get "jerky", it is as a mean in the game. I don't intend it against you or in general.

lol. I'm with you if you help me catch scum.

[*]Xite91 Lots of noise. The amount of posting doesn't correspond with the amount of information. Asking me if I was breadcrumbing is a stupid question, and definitely not a town one.

so, do you think Xite is scum or not?

yabbaguy: Pulling off that mystery wedge guess was excellent.

But I honestly don't know what to think about it in the context of scum town, it's just too cleanly guessed that if either of them (or both) turn up scum, yabba guy is in on it (i.e. scum, or rolecop). If not, he deserves a prize for that guess.

#97, huge issue.

Xite has this habit of saying "I GET WHAT YOUR BREADCRUMB/VAGUE POST WAS SAYING!" I don't think it's helpful, it's definitely not a good idea. It adds nothing and it feels like buddying.

Made rolefishing #112.

#161 is a horrible post.

"AtE Noted" when did respect get kicked out of this game?

I posted that I didn't get the CKD vote, and I still mean it.

#178: Worst version of one of the worst ways to read someone ever.

Full of emotion, was never going to show anything.

he can't be right! there is no way there can be one and only one one scum in {Charlie FakeGod}. again, falling back on your craplogic

?? explain this again please, don't get it

do you think this kind of post is posted more likely by town or by scum

what about that post makes you think Xite is scum?

huh? what has respect have to do with that post?

what's "way to read someone" are you referring to? what's the "worst version". explanation please

Xite+Charlie+1 (either greyman or maybe even CKD, if he's got the balls for a confrontation this early)

this is total bullshit again. now tell me: WHY WOULD FAKEGOD CONFIRM CHARLIE IF CHARLIE WAS SCUM BUT FAKEGOD WAS TOWN?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Xite

good decision,

but I've still got my eye on you!

FoS: Oman

[Tasky]

I disagree with you on this point, and it seems like we won't resolve ourselves. By the way not agreeing with you doesn't mean it's craplogic.

ok. I really can't understand how you can still think that, but at the moment I am satisfied from you. we may continue our wall of text wall war another time, in case I change my mind on you. right now it's quite senseless.

@Xite:

STOP SAYING THAT YOU EXPOSED YOUR CASE ALREADY.

If you have, it was not clear enough. If you have, you should have no problem to state it again.

DO THAT

. Pick Quotes of CKD and write in a

systematic

,

clear

and

concise

way why he is scummy! after every point, add a

link

to your post where you already stated it. should you fail to do so in your next post

HAMMER HIM, GUYS.

@everyone else, don't hammer until he has the chance to post that god damn case (if it exists).

Tasky is

REALLY

driving me crazy with

maddening

amounts of font style emphasis

that should not be present

ever

in any game of Mafia.

lol if I make text stand out,

PEOPLE WILL NOTICE IT!

lol. do you know a better way to address specific points in a quote?

[Tasky]

Xite: claim or die.
you are definitely scum, and I want you dead. I think the only thing that can save you right now is a really good claim.

[Tasky]

huh... giving up already?

lynch, lynch, lynch

[Tasky]

huh... giving up already?

lynch, lynch, lynch

I feel that at this point, my flip will help you guys better than me sitting here arguing for another 10 pages, and like I said, I'm tired or arguing anyways, because what's the point of doing so when no one's listening anyway?

you could make a nice

CONCISE

(!!!) post of your case(s). if you really are town, there is absolutely no reason to give up now.
I know you have posted a lot of stuff, but should there be good points, they are invisible in the load of repetitions and noise surrounding them.
clearing your cases up, not posting lot of things, not repeating what you've said. just posting the main arguments in a structured way will help.

your resigning attitude really doesn't help avoiding your lynch here. it's obvious your case isn't understood/accepted by us, if you really are town, you should try to make it clear. there is no use in your death (should you really flip town) if your point isn't clear to us and if we can't use it.

[Tasky]

VOTE: yabbaguy

[Tasky]

VOTE: yabbaguy

Reasons required. Not requested, required.

(More later.)

lol

[Tasky]

Okay, I shall claim also. I am

Pat Sajak

(mason) and CKD was my mason partner. We know each other to be innocent. My breadcrumb can be read by checking first letter of my odd number posts backwards, except the very last one but I immediately posted right after that I "made a mistake" on the last post anyway.

Urgh, first time being a mason so the fact I had quicktopic slipped from my mind. Apologies to CKD for that, and I'll check the thread for reads. Somewhat busy with my university studies.

since (I assume) you have the same PM as CKD, could you please explain the buzz CKD was making about that town/townie/pro-town wording thing?
that would be helpful

[Tasky]

Code: Select all

*--------------------*
| YOU ARE ENTERING A |
|     POSTED NO      | 
|   BULLSHIT ZONE    |
*--------------------*
          ||

this is so cool... do you mind if I copy it sometimes?

[Tasky]

@Tasky, quit stalling and tell us why you voted yabbaguy already.

I voted yabbaguy for fun. ok?
and now for fun I am going to vote you:
UNVOTE: VOTE: Prof. Guppy

[Tasky]

@Tasky
Easy- since we are mason, it would be crazy for there to be another town pair that is confirms each other. In my PM it states that "you know each other to be innocent". Thus if there was another role that knew each other, it would have been likelier for the mod to use same choice of wording such as "your partner is innocent" instead of "your partner is also confirmed town/townie etc.". CKD was checking whether FakeGod/Charlie was fakeclaiming or not by addressing this point; if they replied yeah my PM said my partner was "town" then the chance of them fakeclaiming would increase dramastically.

ok, thx... this makes it clear

[Tasky]

xD. I know how to play this game.
But I also want to have fun.
and I am scumhunting, I don't have a top suspect right now, wanna see what happens.
but my vote on you is fine for now.

[Tasky]

FakeGod. your argument is bullshit. just because Xite FoS'ed people, it doesn't mean they are scum. Xite knew as much as we did.

I am totally confused right now, I reread the thread 3 times and I really can't tell anything major. And I am still bugged that I was wrong on Xite.

therefore I a am going to ask some questions. I want anyone to answer exactly the questions I ask them. Nobody shall answers someone else's questions. I want you to motivate your answers. Disclaimer: those questions could be traps.

Prof. Guppy:
1. assume you were someone else (town aligned). would you find this post scummy? why?
2. do you think yabbaguy is scum?
3. do you think yabbaguy thinks you are scum?
4. did you really think Xite was scum or did you just follow suite?

Oman:
1. do you still believe FakeGod could be scum? if no, what made you change your mind?
2. do you think I am scum?
3. what do you think about FakeGod's argument for voting yabbaguy/Guppy?

Tazaro:
1. why do you think yabbaguy is voting you?
2. do you think what you pointed out in this post is a scumtell?
3. why did you hammer Xite?
4. assume you were someone else (town aligned). would you be suspicious about Tazaro's hammering?

yabbaguy:
1. in this post, what are you certain about? that Taz is scum or that Guppy is town. in both cases, why are you so certain about it?
2. is voting for a stupid reason scummy? (in particular, is Taz scummy for voting for an "asinine reason"? isn't that a form of "not knowing what he is doing" too?)

brianj:
1. do you think I believe your claim?

FakeGod:
1. assume you were someone else (town aligned). would there be any reason no to believe FakeGod's claim?

PieMan:
1. how likely to you think it is, that it was not Charlies fault that CKD died? (e.g that there was a vig or a SK)
2. why didn't you vote Xite yesterday?
3. why didn't you vote at all yesterday after unvoting me?
4. what would you say if I now announced that that whole theory box of mine is a lie and that I do not believe a word of it?

Reckamonic:
1. do you still think Charlie is "plain dumb"? (*)
2. do you think FakeGod is going to be today's mafia-kill? (*)
3. if I were a doc, who should I protect?
4. if we lynch PieMan today and he flips town, would you be willing to take a lynch tomorrow?

[Tasky]

1. Do you think brianj is scum?
2. Do you think brianj is confirmed town?

1. no
2. almost. I just want to give everyone the opportunity to counterclaim. (haven't checked whether everybody posted after brianj's claim). should there be no counterclaim, yes.

PS: if you are the real mason out there: CLAIM! there is no use of not claiming. you are not a power role, so you have no reason to hide from scum.

[Tasky]

damn... I just noticed I answered brianj's question for him. lol

[Tasky]

TOWN:

brianj - This is just really fucking obvious. He's an un-CC'd mason.
FakeGod - His claim and Charlie's flip saved him.

Not to mention, his posts 347 & 348 hit the nail on the head.

Reckamonic - durrrrrrrp.

bold mine: please explain this.

[Tasky]

Thought so.

explain better plz. what did you think?
what implications do you think it has?

[Tasky]

Tasky's Qs irk me as well at a first glance, I'll have to look at them later.

did you look at them?

people... please keep up the game.

[Tasky]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Prof. Guppy

Self-hammer to stop discussion flat.
Go scum!

woow!
thank you very much. dude.

Thought so.

explain better plz. what did you think?
what implications do you think it has?

The whole competing wagons thing was to see where Pieman and Guppy would go with their votes. Guppy's has maintained, which...well it was there for a while (pre my vote). So I guess it doesn't really fit into this. I can't retroactively call him on that. What does fit however is that Pieman has never previously referenced Guppy. Well once and it was "I don't remember any post about guppy". And now he's voting him *only* because he is the other wagon. Look at the reasoning he puts with his vote "not voting in a pro-town way". It's self-perpetuating. But now that he is the other dude, he just throws the vote down.

My vote on Pieman stays, and I'm happy with it there.

how do you think about this now that Guppy revealed scum? do you still think your logic holds against Pieman?
if yes, how so?
if no, why didn't you consider the opinion of Guppy being scum?

Tasky, on a second glance at your questions, I found some of them pointless, but really none of them scummy. The weirdness of asking "what do you think I think" (e.g. @brianj) was what got my attention, and I'm not sure why you asked it, but yeah.

Theory Box

If you want to ask a lot of questions to a lot of people, you have to ask different questions on different things. You additionally have to ask more and less relevant questions. This is because by doing that, you won't harm a townie's reasoning, he is just going to answer honestly to all questions anyway (well, it will cost them some minutes longer, but hey, they did sign up for this game after all). On the other side, scum won't know exactly which questions I really consider relevant, and especially they won't know what I "want to hear". That way it get's more difficult for a scumbag to calibrate his answer between hiding his scummness and being truthful. Additionally, if I tell the people I am asking a question, why I am asking, a lot of the effect of the question is gone. But, those "what do you think I think" - questions are not useless at all. They are weird, yes, but not useless. I once wrote a theory box about that type of question. You'll find it here.

[Tasky]

oh. and now it's time to make town play guessing games again:
who do you think I think is scum. (yes, there is someone out there who looks scummy.)

[Tasky]

oh. and now it's time to make town play guessing games again:
who do you think I think is scum. (yes, there is someone out there who looks scummy.)

you all failed to answer this. well, the correct answer waaaaaas...


...
...
...

Spoiler: scumbag

VOTE: Oman
case will follow (if I feel like it)

[Tasky]

Point of interest:

Damn it, why did I let yabbaguy get me distracted from Prof. Guppy?

Unvote: yabbaguy

Vote: Prof. Guppy

It's interesting to note that this is L-1.

My thought is it's a poor bus with feigned emotion.

I cited before that PieMan's delayed reaction at Guppy was a little too convenient considering his vote increase between those two moments of time and I do think it could've been a bus as well.

I'm banking on Tazaro and PieMan.

isn't it a little convenient that all your scumpicks are VI's (in the broadest possible sense)?

[Tasky]

thanks for playing everybody.
nice game.
sorry again for my stupid mistake (putting spoilers), SC

[Tasky]

ok. this time really.
good game

[Tasky]

PS: I want to see the scum-quicktopic