Mini 1044: Lie to Me Mafia - Game Over

[jimfinn]

/confirm. Are we allowed to talk theory in this thread pre-game or not?

[jimfinn]

Timezone: EDT
Experience: A lot F2F with very different rules/playstyle, 2 finished newbies and one I'm dead in, 4 current minis counting this
Fave Role: F2F town roleblocker, online Vig/SK/Goon(basically anything with a kill)
Playstyle in a nutshell: Aggressive when I have a strong read, unaggressive if not. I believe strongly in the lynch of anyone who claims VT at L-1 on D1 as suggested by hohum in my first game. I disagreed there, but have come to agree.(check MD for a thread)
Are you familiar with the theme? I watched all of season 1, little to none since.

Avvie disclaimer: My avatar is a Decyfer Down album cover. They are an amazing band. Look up "The Best I Can", "Crash", and "Fight Like This"

[jimfinn]

I know - I just felt like making one of my own lol - I never miss out on the chance to talk music!

[jimfinn]

I've wanted my avatar to be regular size, but I don't know how to make it that. Can you tell me how?

[jimfinn]

...which I don't have...

[jimfinn]

fixed?

[jimfinn]

I wouldn't say anything so far is truly all that scummy (since it's still pretty much RVS/RQS), but I'm going to RVS VOTE: Tasky

[jimfinn]

There are several Tasky votes, yes. What scumtells there are are minor at best, nothing too serious IMO. Wagon reactions are more likely to create scumtells that I pick up on than RQS answers and related discussion.

[jimfinn]

That is to say, disagreements over the meanings of terms such as rolefishing and the odd capitalization of TOWN do not seem (at least to me) to be anything significant, and no serious reason for voting is brought to my attention, though I am very curious to see how the wagon plays out. Wagon players up and down and see how they react - that's how you catch scum.

[jimfinn]

What do you mean by Vague neutrality? Also, why is SoW's vote so terrible? It seems like a "you're not doing what we want so i vote you" type vote, which could feasibly be used by a town player trying to push a specific strategy.

[jimfinn]

jimfinn, why do you prefer having a kill in mafia games?
What do you think of Robbnva?
Why should I shoot Tasky right now?
What is a protown reaction to a wagon being formed on you?

1. I can at times be a more gut than logic player, but it is hard to convince other players to follow a gut read. I prefer having a kill so that I can act on my gut reads.
2. I don't particularly like his posts or his reasons, but they have a more "bad-town-play" than "scum-play" feel to them.
3. You shouldn't. It's far too early for a shot or a lynch. No one has much of a strong read yet.
4A. Clarification: we learn more about people other than the person the wagon is on from the wagon, in my experience. I say that if in a 12 player game, players A,B,C, and D wagon player E and players G and J defend him, we learn far more about A,B,C,D,G, and J than we do about E.
4B. A player with a wagon being formed on him (assuming some logical explanation for the votes) ought to explain his intention in the posts for which he is being wagoned. He should also continue to scumhunt as normal. He should only claim at L-1, claim truthfully, and (if and only if it is Day 1) encourage the town to lynch him if he is a VT (though he should not self-hammer - town should pretty much never self-hammer except in extraordinary circumstances). I refer to this as Hohum's Theory (after the player who explained it to me). Basically, it says that if there are 12 players in the game lettered A through J and there are exactly three scum (call them A,B,C) and three PRs(D,E,F) and six VTs (G-J) and G claims VT on D1 at L-1; the town chooses to lynch another player who happens to also flip VT. Now the scum have a 3/7 chance of hitting a PR with the NK. If they had lynched G, the scum would only have a 3/8 chance of hitting a PR.

[jimfinn]

Oh, and did anyone actually look at this post?

1. I can at times be a more gut than logic player, but it is hard to convince other players to follow a gut read. I prefer having a kill so that I can act on my gut reads.
2. I don't particularly like his posts or his reasons, but they have a more "bad-town-play" than "scum-play" feel to them.
3. You shouldn't. It's far too early for a shot or a lynch. No one has much of a strong read yet.
4A. Clarification: we learn more about people other than the person the wagon is on from the wagon, in my experience. I say that if in a 12 player game, players A,B,C, and D wagon player E and players G and J defend him, we learn far more about A,B,C,D,G, and J than we do about E.
4B. A player with a wagon being formed on him (assuming some logical explanation for the votes) ought to explain his intention in the posts for which he is being wagoned. He should also continue to scumhunt as normal. He should only claim at L-1, claim truthfully, and (if and only if it is Day 1) encourage the town to lynch him if he is a VT (though he should not self-hammer - town should pretty much never self-hammer except in extraordinary circumstances). I refer to this as Hohum's Theory (after the player who explained it to me). Basically, it says that if there are 12 players in the game lettered A through J and there are exactly three scum (call them A,B,C) and three PRs(D,E,F) and six VTs (G-J) and G claims VT on D1 at L-1; the town chooses to lynch another player who happens to also flip VT. Now the scum have a 3/7 chance of hitting a PR with the NK. If they had lynched G, the scum would only have a 3/8 chance of hitting a PR.

Notice that this post is padded with theory and contains almost no opinions about what is going on in this particular game.

Oh, and nothing about why his vote went to (and is still on) Tasky. Reminder: At the time, it was the 5th vote on the wagon.



Preview edit: I don't see jim's Tasky vote on the votecount, though I don't see where jim removed it.

Mod: Is the vote count correct?

I was asked a series of largely theory-based questions, so I gave theory-based answers.

[jimfinn]

The argument between SoW and

Trinidad and Tobago

Tasky and Tazaro makes me think that at least one of the three is scum, but I'm waiting for more exchange of rhetoric before I feel confident as to which of them.

[jimfinn]

I am aligned with the town.

[jimfinn]

Didn't realize I hadn't done it yet, sorry - could've sworn I had

[jimfinn]

I agree with Nacho's plan.

unvote

VOTE: Tazaro

[jimfinn]

Nachomamma!
I want you to tell us NOW (in your next post, that is) whether you are going to shoot someone today or not.

No.

if you don't shoot, I want a large breakdown of your view on the game. I want to hear a GOOD explanation for not shooting, considering you declared that you were definitely going to shoot today.

Explanation:

I don't want to waste my shot. If I was to shoot right now, we'd have 3 days to find someone else and I'm not even sure we'd have 7 active people, much less 7 active people who could agree with a lynch in one day. I think that we could get a Tazaro lynch before deadline if all of the active people vote him, now. The other reason is that if a lie detector finds someone who lies tomorrow, then I can shoot the liar immediately, and we'll still have plenty of time to find another scum to lynch without scum getting their NK in.

Breakdown coming.

I don't have time to reply to all of #384 right now, but this is what I meant by Nacho's plan

[jimfinn]

Nacho suggested what seemed like a reasonable protown plan at the time to give us a flip and prevent a nolynch. I agreed and followed.

[jimfinn]

I'm being asked to explain my RVS yet not RVS vote? I used RVS to say that I was not voting based on any read, but I was deliberately joining a wagon. I was not wagonning him based on any real case, but really just trying to create a wagon to take us "out of RVS" and get people to say/do something.

And as for the fencesitting, the discussion among the aforementioned players just reeked of scumminess, but it seemed like it could be any of the players in it. With time running out on D1, my three scum reads were those three players, for their interaction with each other (not that all of them were scum, but more a one is or the other is type situation) and would have willing voted any of the three to get a flip.

[jimfinn]

2) When it's completed either of us can provide it... but it's ongoing, we're just both dead.

[jimfinn]

Are you sure those dates are right? I would've expected a prod on robb and moku if it were that long

[jimfinn]

I am interested in continuing. I had not said so in thread yet, but had PMed MeMe.

[jimfinn]

True. But I want to see how this game ends.

[jimfinn]

Wait, I was allowed to talk after I was daykilled if I really was? I thought dead meant dead, no talking under this ruleset

[jimfinn]

Ok one of my games said no posting after you are killed (even if the mod did not arrive yet), and I got mixed up, so I was not posting anything game-relevant because I thought I was not allowed.

[jimfinn]

to say I wanted to continue the game - that was not game-relevant, just a statement of opinion (as a player once alive in the game) since I was still interested to see if my town could pull off the win with an interesting mechanic based on a show I love

[jimfinn]

I am Elliot Salamone, Doctor. I protected Shepherd of Wolves N1, hoping the mafia would choose to kill one of the more active players. He didn't die, and therefore he is confirmed town. Hammer me if you like, I'll just die tonight anyway.

[jimfinn]

what are you trying to say? More specifically, explain 563 and 564.

[jimfinn]

Narsis, I was about to not get lynched. What are you doing?

[jimfinn]

VOTE: Nacho for telling people to lynch me when I'm obviously the doctor.

[jimfinn]

accident both nights

[jimfinn]

doc protect bluff night 1 actually, accident night 2