Mini 1044: Lie to Me Mafia - Game Over

[Robbnva]

/confirm

[Robbnva]

sorry to hear that Stef is having problems, hope they fix it soon

[Robbnva]

Hmmm. After looking through the rules we have some pretty short days. I say we get some conversation starting. We can semi skip the RVS when day actually starts that way and save time.

but the game hasn't started yet technically and with mod having problems, not sure what we should do really

[Robbnva]

Timezone:

East Coast

Experience:

About 6 months, on this site less than a month

Fave Role:

Jester but cop is pretty good, I am usually considered scummy no matter what role I am so being cop and having people trust me feels great

Playstyle in a nutshell:

been called VI quite a few times on here so aparantly my play style sucks

Are you familiar with the theme?

I love Lie to me so yeah

Fave Alignment or Role: (I know this isn't a upick but it is still an important question for when we need to start looking at motives for actions.)

I always prefer to be town than Mafia

[Robbnva]

Treestump?

Ok, this phrase gambit is new to me, don't use that word where I normally play, explain what a gambit is and an example of one please

[Robbnva]

Lol, that avatar a buddy made for this football mmorpg we play, our team is video game theme, so each player is named after a video game.

Avatar is pretty good considering the 30k limit they have

I know pretty lame, not as cool as playing a mafia game on a forum

[Robbnva]

Robbnva and Espeonage, have either of you actually played Jester before. Because it sucks.

In other news, Tazaro is still scum. Wagon, please.

Not sure how jester works here but the other site I play, jester wins if lynched

getting lynched is pretty easy to do

[Robbnva]

Why am I scum?

This reminds me of this crappy mafia site called epic mafia

it is like instant mafia, games last about 10 to 20 mins

they love the phrase why me = fry me

but I would like to hear why he thinks you are scum

[Robbnva]

Timezone: GMT+1
Experience: I played a couple of games on this site, and a huge amount of real-life mafia
Fave Role: I'd say townie, but there are some town power roles I like
Playstyle in a nutshell: I actually played differently in every game I was in on this site... so I can't really tell.
Are you familiar with the theme?: yeah, I

love

Lie To Me...
Fave Alignment: TOWN


VOTE: Tazaro, for being scum

Hmm real life mafia, so you are scum by nature

vote tasky

[Robbnva]

@cryme

it's the shit when the servers don't freeze and a game finishes with no suiciders or trolls

love day 1 when 2 people claim cop and turns out they both lied and were town

[Robbnva]

Are we saying we are town aligned in case there is a lie detector?

If so. I am town alligned

[Robbnva]

an add-on to the previous statement: ... as long as you don't lie, you don't die after a lie detection result, right?

this statement is weird to me

I have never heard of anyone dying as a result of a lie detector, they just get told if it was a lie or not (maybe things are different here, I have a link to roles used on this site and it did not have lie detector)

also

Tazaro asking if you die when you lie is odd cause if you are not ever going to lie, why would you even care if you would die.

vote tazaro

for now this is good enough to put some pressure on him

[Robbnva]

day one is all about getting info, people won't talk unless they feel they have to.

Tazaro feeling the need to ask if somebody will die if they lie is suspect.

[Robbnva]

Ok...

[Robbnva]

Robbnva, would you agree with me that I should shoot CryMeARiver this moment? If so, why? If not, why not?
Would you try to stop me if I told you I was going to shoot Tasky in my next post?
Do you believe in a Lynch All Liars policy?
Are you afraid of being lynched? Are you afraid of being shot?
Let's say I kill you now. You're allowed to make one last post before I kill you. What does that post look like?

1. No I don't at this moment because I don't really have any sort of read on him yet, his vote on me for epic mafia comment is laughable
2. Tbh I probably would not try to stop you. It's your shot do what you want, I would hope you chose right. Personally I would not have revealed my role so early and saved the shot for later if I was you.
3. Depends on what they lied about, so not all liars (mafia says I'm allowed with town kind of lie, yes. Doc or cop hinting or saying they don't have a role to stay alive at night, no)
4 & 5. No I'm not
6. You wasted you shot, go town

[Robbnva]

so going back between tasky and tazaro, this is quite interesting. I vote tazaro so his buddy tasky does the OMGUS voting and seems to know 100% without a shadow of a doubt that I am scum

Tasky seems to do less of the actually buddying with Tazaro, if you go back Tazaro seems to mention Tasky more in his posts, but the vote on me because I vote Tazaro definitly needs to be looked into.

and such a lame reason, seriously you agree with the putting pressure on people but vote me cause I posted that is why I am voting you?

[Robbnva]

so tasky is claiming being part of the lightman group, I don't get why people put themselves out there that early

[Robbnva]

ok here is what I have to say about Tazaro.

instead of trying to show why he is not scum he is so focused on attacking Shephard

1. My reason that I voted you and the reason you gave to explain what you meant doesn't make sense. You said you don't die and your explanation is that you meant you won't get lynched. Anyway if the Lie Detector came back with a Lie, yes you would be lynched most likely. Again like I said, if you are telling the truth there is no reasonable reason to even ask that question.

2. your post 24 - You say you are playing town differently this time, this could be a way to keep people at looking at your meta to determine if you are scum or not. Your play this time around seems scummy for the reasons I am posting in this post.

3. going back to your post 23 - So you are saying you are just a bad player as your counter-argument, which isn't a very good one and if you are indeed scum, that is such an easy thing to say as a reason to be looked at as a bad townie

[Robbnva]

Isn't the highest lynch candidate the person who's most lynchable? But who actually is the most lynchable?

Right now you are

[Robbnva]

Gonna be V/LA (what does this mean actually) until Thursday

I'll try and check in on my phone if I can

Noted

[Robbnva]

Caution HUGE wall of text ahead

ok it looks like we have 2 different games going on.

Game 1 - Tasky and Tazaro vs Shephard, I am voting for tazaro also and tazaro has not responded or commented to my post - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p2507330

Game 2 - Everyone kind of doing their own thing, this game got clouded early by the day kill - which has basically halted the game (game 1 is still active)

personally I would like others in this game to comment on the cases by Tazaro/Tasky and the case by Shephard. TBH I have been out of town and busy studying for a test coming up I have not fully read what kind of case Shephard has made. The Tazaro/Tasky case to me is based soley on him attacking them.

my problem or thing I find weird is this. Tasky has already claimed he is part of the Lightman group, which 1. is WAY to early in the votes and 2. seems to be the safest thing to claim anyway cause who wants to lynch a Lightman group member.

Tazaro and Tasky do seem to be working together and the only reason I saw is that they have played together and know each other's playing style but why on day 1 would you try and team up with somebody, especially if you have no idea if they are scum.

if we take this friendship as a classic case of buddying let's look at the evidence.

Shepard votes Tasky cause he makes his lie detector declaration as "I am not mafia" which could come back to LD as true if he was a SK so to me the vote seems logical enough for a day 1 vote.

before tasky has even had a chance to respond to the vote by Shepard Tazaro posts this

SOW's vote IS terrible. In fact, he's my scumpick. Either way you look at it, SOW either played a crummy vote on Tasky due to being scum or needs to be pressured to take it off of Tasky. I for one see scumminess as a very viable possibility.

Shepherd of Wolves

- he forgot to put Vote so he does it in the very next post

The above quote was the beginning of what I call buddying. The vote from SOW on tasky was a good enough vote because in my mind i actually had the same thought about that "I am not mafia" comment. now later tasky changes and says he is alligned with town so fair enough.

Tazaro seems SO convinced that Tasky is town when there is no way in the world he would know that unless he was mafia.

now my case for voting Tazaro is a good one, and I want all you pro-town players to ask yourself the same question.

would you be worried about the results of the Lie Detector if you were not lying? As a pro-town player, would there be any reason why you would lie, especially if everyone is making the same declaration statement of "I am alligned with the town" ?

now Tazaro actually asks a very logical question in his post 19 - he asks Shep why he said so many declarations is bad as long as you don't lie. (personally I think so many declarations makes it harder for the Lie detector to choose because if everyone says it, it basically makes these statements worthless cause he would have to guess right)

now his next post - he says he is adding on to question 20. what he added on was "as long as you don't lie" which would have been good enough but he threw in the "you don't die after a lie detection right?" I personally feel he threw in that last part to cover himself, there was no reason to ask that last part to Shepard.

Tazaro in his post 21 "after I call him on it" says he was talking about the scenario of if it came back a lie would that person get lynched. (again, no need to ask that question if you are pro-town and you are not lying)

NOW when the day killer shows up he asks Tazaro if tasky is town alligned - he says NO (why would he be attacking the person who voted for tasky if he thought tasky was scum?)

Tazaro now says he is just a bad player when he is asked why he ignored Shepard's case on tazaro
Tazaro in his post 24 says he is playing different and not jumping on every scum tell he sees (if you are pro-town why would you not point out scum tells?)
25 & 26 basically says Shepard is attacking him
29 - says tunneling him is the reason I am keeping my vote on you (so it is no longer because he voted Tasky, but tunneling somebody you suspect is scum is not an issue so I see nothing wrong with Shepard tunneling Tazaro)
30 - comments on ZeroFang's comment about Shepard isn't really tunneling, said he did not see any other cases made except on him and tasky (which is actually true, shep has been on just those 2)
31 - a. he basically says he is not going to respond to Shepard's questions but proceeds to do so (b-f)
b. says Tasky's actions are Null
c. saying Shepard's vote on tasky is either a townie who is wrong(wait he told nacho tasky was scum) or Shephard is mafia and lying (if he thinks tasky is scum, why does he care the motivation of his voting for tasky or for voting for tazaro who defended him)
d. Tazaro says he doesn't like to ask questions and just votes when he thinks someone is suspicious (why would yo not ask questions to the people you suspect?
e. "I play games by winging it, scum hunting will work itself out" (really? this is a person who is alligned with town?)
f. this is the comment that they have played together before (well I played with Tasky before and you don't see me being his friend)
32. Tazaro says it is better to vote Shepard (but remember he told nacho that tasky is scum)
34 - WOW I AM MAD SO I WILL SAY SHEPARD IS SCUM
35. another comment that him and tasky has played together and their knowledge of each other is reflected in their play today

so the biggest question is did Tazaro lie to the day killer or does he really think tasky is not town.

IF he thinks tasky is not town

why is he not voting him, why is he defending him, why is he attacking the person who originally called Tasky out as scum?

Sorry for my Wall of text now I have a meeting to run to.

[Robbnva]

and with this my vote stays on tazaro, I think Tasky could be telling the truth about being with the Lightman group and tazaro was trying to buddy.

[Robbnva]

I.e., my Tasky-read is NOT town... But also is NOT mafia.

so than he is a SK?

[Robbnva]

I love how I post this huge long post about Tazaro and how he is probably mafia and

1. tazaro ignores it completely
2. nobody else mentions it

Hello is this thing on? can you guys hear me?

[Robbnva]

How is my wording different?

But whatever

I am town alligned

[Robbnva]

I am town aligned

[Robbnva]

Boy tazaro doesn't seem to have much to say and doesn't feel the need to defend himself on the very good case I made of him being scum.

[Robbnva]

Why does "playing the game" involve mass tunneling?

I'm asking again, could someone

please

read jimfinn (a few pages ago) and tell me how it's not scummy.

When I get time I'll check out your case on him but I'd like you to comment on my case about tazaro

[Robbnva]

I did not ask you to tunnel! I asked who is better to lynch than TAZARO. I have tunneled him, as you would say, because he is scum. And, he deserves to get the axe. When you have enough evidence, there comes a point when you have to act on that. We have great evidence to lynch him.

But, would you say you are not tunneling on jimfinn? What do you call your focus on him??

I'm fine with you tunneling.

I'm just wondering why everyone else is too.

who else is tunneling him? I made my case against him but would not call it tunnling

nobody else is even talking about him

[Robbnva]

What case is there to make? Shepherd's tunneling on me is a heavily-spotlighted brain tumor that is paralyzing others' from acting in an organic way.

you seem to have totally missed (or ignored) my entire case on you

[Robbnva]

Oh, and did anyone actually look at this post?

1. I can at times be a more gut than logic player, but it is hard to convince other players to follow a gut read. I prefer having a kill so that I can act on my gut reads.
2. I don't particularly like his posts or his reasons, but they have a more "bad-town-play" than "scum-play" feel to them.
3. You shouldn't. It's far too early for a shot or a lynch. No one has much of a strong read yet.
4A. Clarification: we learn more about people other than the person the wagon is on from the wagon, in my experience. I say that if in a 12 player game, players A,B,C, and D wagon player E and players G and J defend him, we learn far more about A,B,C,D,G, and J than we do about E.
4B. A player with a wagon being formed on him (assuming some logical explanation for the votes) ought to explain his intention in the posts for which he is being wagoned. He should also continue to scumhunt as normal. He should only claim at L-1, claim truthfully, and (if and only if it is Day 1) encourage the town to lynch him if he is a VT (though he should not self-hammer - town should pretty much never self-hammer except in extraordinary circumstances). I refer to this as Hohum's Theory (after the player who explained it to me). Basically, it says that if there are 12 players in the game lettered A through J and there are exactly three scum (call them A,B,C) and three PRs(D,E,F) and six VTs (G-J) and G claims VT on D1 at L-1; the town chooses to lynch another player who happens to also flip VT. Now the scum have a 3/7 chance of hitting a PR with the NK. If they had lynched G, the scum would only have a 3/8 chance of hitting a PR.

Notice that this post is padded with theory and contains almost no opinions about what is going on in this particular game.

Oh, and nothing about why his vote went to (and is still on) Tasky. Reminder: At the time, it was the 5th vote on the wagon.



Preview edit: I don't see jim's Tasky vote on the votecount, though I don't see where jim removed it.

Mod: Is the vote count correct?

I was asked a series of largely theory-based questions, so I gave theory-based answers.

Reading this back, while I agree with the theory of lynch VT on day 1

you were not asked theory based questions. You were asked questions for your own opinion

when asked what do you consider a pro town reaction, you went on and typed a bunch of theory instead of answering the question. These words were unnecessary and the theory you posted was not asked for by anyone

[Robbnva]

The fact that tazaro admitted to ignoring my case is even more reason to me he is scum

[Robbnva]

Decisions after a few ISO's: Taz is town, SoW is leaning town, Tasky is null, Zero is leaning scum, where is Espe? Does Maddie even exist?
VOTE: Zero

You are joking about taz right? My case on him is pretty good and nobody, not even taz has tried to tell me I'm wrong

[Robbnva]

ZERO FANG needs to be replaced. He has not posted in 5 DAYS.

Or prodded. Or I could suddenly get very, very active since my schedule freed up. I had no idea I let this game go this long. There are so many things I need to address it's not even funny.

dude your avatar scares me a bit

[Robbnva]

Who are you planning to kill?

Probably no one. At this point in the game, I'd be taking a random shot, which is something that I will not be wasting my day-vig on.

so you wasted people's time and distracted from scum hunting to answer your questions?

[Robbnva]

I actually agree with tasky, use the kill on tazaro

[Robbnva]

I say Jim is definitely one of the top list of suspects also along with you if you are lying about the day kill.

I just saw someone fake day kill and if you are doing it here I will FOS you hard time.

if you are telling the truth than that is cool but right now until it actually happens, I am going to be skeptical.

[Robbnva]

Tasky is my second suspect!

while I originally thought that, I think it is just too obvious that both of them are scum, taz did more of the buddying and playing up to tasky than the other way around so the obvious choice is taz is scum and tasky is probably not

[Robbnva]

I'll move my vote back to tazaro but until the claim

vote jim

he is fitting into my ideas of how some mafia act on day one anyway

[Robbnva]

unvote, vote tazaro

staying true to my word

[Robbnva]

Tasky. My first vote on him was very weak, intended both to get reactions and to investigate the first semi-scummy action in the game. His ISO #11 was absolutely dreadful. He suggested we day kill a player who at the time (and even now) hadn't done much, and then tried to absolve himself of any responsibility. He's my first scum pick.

ok... now you tell me what's so dreadful about that post. -
then you tell me how suggesting a vig kill is scummy. as I already said, Tazaro has such a scummy meta that it is impossible for me to get a read on him. on the other side he I really don't want him around later, for said scummyness and because he isn't able to contribute decently. this is the reason why I want him vigged. If there really is a one shot day vig, then he won't really find a better target later. Since he will likely be confirmed town as soon as he shoots, the mafia isn't going to keep him around very long. it would be a shame to miss the opportunity to vig Taz. I see it as a general rule that players who have really scummy meta and can't be read because of it shall be vigged instead.
and then you tell me where I "tried to absolve [myself] of any responsibility".

ok... now you tell me what's so dreadful about that post. - your argument about my vote really did not make sense

then you tell me how suggesting a vig kill is scummy. - what if he kills the wrong person like cop or worse the doc, that is basically what you want him to gamble with

also declaring me scummy with no reason is actually scummy. you still have not provided a valid reason why you think I am scum.

[Robbnva]

@tasky. Tazaro is not a cop or doc so killing him with the day kill is acceptable
also I'm not have not lied all game but thanks for playing

[Robbnva]

@tasky I don't beleive tazaro is pro-town so there is no contradiction

also per my role pm I am working with the rest of the lightman group so I can't possibly be anti-town

[Robbnva]

@tasky I don't beleive tazaro is pro-town so there is no contradiction

well, you were accusing me of wanting to vig Taz. you said I risked to push a cop or a doc kill. and before and after that you advocate a Taz- lynch/vig yourself.
seems like a contradiction to me.

I didn't accuse you of wanting to vig taz because you said

I actually think you should shoot Tazaro.
if what you said is true, we will get a deadline extension after that and we will be able to analyze further knowing whether Taz is scum or not.

normally suggesting somebody to daykill somebody is scummy but if the target is tazaro I think that is a pretty sure bet you won't hit a doc or a cop

sorry if I confused you, it seemed like the day kill was going to happen no matter what which is why I agreed if it was inevitable, Taz was the best call but if it is optional than yeah don't use it at all.

[Robbnva]

can you explain how you are "quite certain" somebody who has already said he is with the Lightman group is scummy to you?

[Robbnva]

Me saying voting to put pressure is not scummy
your contradiction statement I already explained
me provinding my own thoughts on your questions to somebody else is my own perogrative and isn't scummy

the post you find funny is from my role pm so if yours doesn't say something similar than I have to question your allignment to the lightman group.

[Robbnva]

Make a solid case against me besides random fluff if you think I'm scummy

fact is my case on tazaro is solid and nobody not even tazaro has been able to argue against my points. Tazaro refusing to comment on a case vs him makes him even more scummy. He is hoping it will go away. So if the day killer isn't going to do anything let's lynch the best candidate for scum, which is tazaro and let the people with actions sort out the rest.

All you are doing is trying to distract from the tazaro case by posting nonsense and your case on me is WEAK

[Robbnva]

Me saying voting to put pressure is not scummy

it is anti-town at best. town wouldn't want to do it -

no it isn't. On the other site I play we use that wording all the time, so to me it isn't anti town. there. Voting without a reason is scummy so I posted my reason, my reason was to put pressure on him cause I thought he was suspicious

your contradiction statement I already explained

then explain again, please

I do not think day killing on day one is wise because you can kill a doctor or cop, BUT I do not think Tazaro is a doctor or a cop, I think he is scum so killing him in my mind is totally acceptable.

me provinding my own thoughts on your questions to somebody else is my own perogrative and isn't scummy

I didn't ask you those questions. town do not answer for someone else.

town can do whatever the fuck they want to. I did not answer the questions for him, he still shoudl have provided his own answers, I was bored and felt like I wanted to throw in some of my own thoughts on your questions to try and get discussion going. in case you haven't noticed this gameis being dominated by 3 or 4 people. YOU, ME, Shepard, and Tazaro.

the post you find funny is from my role pm so if yours doesn't say something similar than I have to question your allignment to the lightman group.

why would you have to make that post?

why did anyone else who claimed to be part of the lightman group feel the need to do so? Why did the person who claims to be lie detector feel the need they should, because they wanted to. You were saying you were

SO SURE

I was scummy but never gave a valid reason so I threw out there that I am part of the lightman group (which I am) to see if you were still so sure. The fact that you did not recognize that part of the role pm I posted makes me suspect that you are actually not part of the lightman group at all but I won't know that until later in the game

@Shep: I don't agree. I think Robbnva is so scum here, he has to be todays lynch!

at the final post, if you think I am scum than provide REAL evidence to me being scum.

what you have posted isn't better evidence than the evidence I have posted for tazaro. If you think my case is bad, why don't you try and break down my case and tell me why the case for him is bad?

you try to make a case vs me and I am defending myself. I make a case vs Tazaro and he does not defend himself

which of the 2 are scummier? not defending himself makes him the better lynch, especailly when the deadline is fast approaching. You want me lynched, come up with something better than what you posted.

Also like I said, I am working with the lightman group to help catch the people who did the killing of his ex-wife and kidnapping of his daughter. Lightman is distraught and I am trying to help him out. attacking me is not pro-town.

distracting away from the largest band-wagon this close to the deadline is not pro-town

[Robbnva]

Are we actually in danger of a no lynch?

because of the inactivity of some of the players I would say yes, you may be getting off easy.

[Robbnva]

Cry me a river - last post 9/15
Espeonage - last post 9/13
Jimfinn - last post 9/16
Maddie - last post 9/7 (has she been replaced?)
Nachomamma - last post 9/16

[Robbnva]

Tasky you want contradiction?

look at Nacho's post 3 where he says he WILL kill someone

and his post 21 where he says he probably won't use it now

so he basically ran a gambit to get people to talk and it basically failed cause he became inactive instead

[Robbnva]

Tasky you are are either scum or VI

I don't need to deflect cause I'm not scum. I am working with the lightman group, it is looking more and more like you are not

[Robbnva]

just a quick count, tazaro has 5 and is L-2

[Robbnva]

Tasky you are are either scum or VI

lol. trying to bully me off?

_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_

damn
this goes against all my principles, but a Taz lynch is definitely better than a no lynch.
UNVOTE: VOTE: Tazaro

Robbnva, don't think I forgot you. I have you caught and you know it.
and people, PLEASE, go and look back on Robbnva. you really don't see what I see?. Robbnva is scum, he has to be our lynch!

yeah you caught me

[Robbnva]

thanks for the deadline extension

[Robbnva]

don't we have a lynch? or does tazaro's self vote not count