Mini 1030 - White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Haschel Cedricson]

Vote: RedCoyote

.

He knows why.

[zoraster]

Day 1 Vote Count

RedCoyote ( 1 ) haschel cedricson
yabbaguy ( 0 )
Jack ( 0 )
Data ( 0 )
Haschel Cedricson ( 0 )
Friend ( 0 )
caelum ( 0 )
Robbnva ( 0 )
cateraction ( 0 )
drmyshottyizsik ( 0 )
Scott Brosius ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 10 ) RedCoyote yabbaguy jack data friend caelum robbnva cateraction drmyshottyizsik scott brosius
Total Votes ( 10 )
Deadline: September 7th at 23:00 EDT
With 11 total votes, 6 needed to lynch.

##Vote: RedCoyote

[Haschel Cedricson]

What's wrong with pushing for a lynch pregame?

Seconding this.

[Haschel Cedricson]

nothing if it was based on something with any actual logic behind it

he was really tryig to push with like no reason,

That's a misrepresentation of Jack's argument. He gave a logical reason. You may not agree with it, and I'm not necessarily saying it's the best reason ever, but it's still A reason and it's disingenuous to frame Jack's play otherwise.

[Haschel Cedricson]

So you're anti-scumhunting? Got it.

I hate trying to read you by the way.

Is that at me or him?

[Haschel Cedricson]

EBWOP: I see.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Who can spot the scum-thinking in post 31?

Ooh! Pick me! Pick me! Over here! Ooh!

[Haschel Cedricson]

@Jack: Deflection, hesitance in the RVS, not acknowledging your argument, etc
.

Hmm, I wasn't thinking of any of that.

On second thought, don't pick me. That was my guess.

[Haschel Cedricson]

How would you describe your meta? It doesn't matter what I tell you my meta is. Meta is something that others have to build for themselves.
Is there an alignment you prefer to play as? Yes.
Do you have previous experience with any of the players here? Yes.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Upon further review, although Robbnva has handled himself poorly, Jack's initial case has a flawed premise. In Caught in the Crossfire, zoraster had the Mafia confirm in the thread. In http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... ance Mafia, zoraster had the Mafia confirm via PM. I'm not finding any games where the Mafia had to confirm in a QT, but I know search on this site is a bit weird when you start delving into the archives, so that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

[Haschel Cedricson]

@friend
Oh i read that wrong... wow that is telling... very telling

unvote
vote robbn

sorry jack i read that wrong, all of what you saif now makes sense

What

exactly

is Jack trying to say? What

exactly

is telling?

[Haschel Cedricson]

he is saying that rob confirmed in thread because mafia's pm's dont say to confirm by pm, and it makes sense

And elaborate on how you misread it.

[Haschel Cedricson]

he is saying that rob confirmed in thread because mafia's pm's dont say to confirm by pm, and it makes sense

And elaborate on how you misread it.

I thought he meant all games, not just our mod

@everyone im at L-2 slow down

##Unvote
##Vote: drmyshottyizsik

And now you're at L-1.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I'm town God no one has a really case on me and I am L-1 on page 4 really people think

You claim that you misread Jack's argument and interpreted it to mean "all games".

Now, I think it would be hard to misread this, what with zoraster being specifically mentioned and all. Your sudden understanding comes off as insincere, and your explanation for what you "weren't getting" before sounds like you are trying to make up a reason to explain your sudden shift in belief.

Furthermore, if Jack HAD meant "all games", wouldn't he be wrong? Like, blatantly wrong? So wrong that Jack's case on robb comes across as scummy? You don't act like that's how you read Jack's statement; you instead focus on how it's too early in the game to make cases and other stuff that has nothing to do with attacking Jack's blatantly wrong case.

The conclusion? You didn't misread Jack's post, and are now backpedalling.

There's other stuff too, but that tipped the balance for me.

[Haschel Cedricson]

anything rhyme with page 5?

IN THE GAME WHITE FLAG MAFIA PAGE FIVE
IF DRSHOTTYSZIK IS STILL ALIVE
IF THE MAFIA HAS STILL SURVIVED THEY MAY FIND

IN THE GAME WHITE FLAG MAFIA PAGE SIX
THE SCUM IS STIL DRMYSHOTTYSZIK
IN THE WHOLE GAME HIS PLAY IS SO BAD
THE TOWN SHOULD JUST QUICKLYNCH THE LAD

IN THE GAME WHITE FLAG MAFIA PAGE SEVEN
Right, I'm done with this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhNM2K8cmU8

[Haschel Cedricson]

The song of your impending lynch.

[Haschel Cedricson]

The song of your impending lynch.

thats not a song

Yes it is.

anything rhyme with page 5?

IN THE GAME WHITE FLAG MAFIA PAGE FIVE
IF DRSHOTTYSZIK IS STILL ALIVE
IF THE MAFIA HAS STILL SURVIVED THEY MAY FIND

IN THE GAME WHITE FLAG MAFIA PAGE SIX
THE SCUM IS STIL DRMYSHOTTYSZIK
IN THE WHOLE GAME HIS PLAY IS SO BAD
THE TOWN SHOULD JUST QUICKLYNCH THE LAD

IN THE GAME WHITE FLAG MAFIA PAGE SEVEN
Right, I'm done with this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhNM2K8cmU8

[Haschel Cedricson]

Don't worry about it.

So, drmyshottyizsik, what do you think of RedCoyote?

[Haschel Cedricson]

And Data?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Data annoys me cause of his fake android thing, but he seems kinda town, at leeast he is scum unting and analyzing very well

Which analysis in particular would you describe as "very well"?

Where do you see him scumhunting?

[Haschel Cedricson]

EBWOP:

...I am not satisfied that the doc's reactions are scum-sided.

To which reactions are you referring?

[Haschel Cedricson]

all, and in every post RTFT HC

Give specific examples.

[Haschel Cedricson]

read the damn thread when i say all that means all

A great deal of his analysis focuses around you being scum. Is that analyzing very well?

[Haschel Cedricson]

quick lynching is pro town

WTF I SAY WE LYNCH THIS GUY!!!!!!

Don't dodge the question.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Don't dodge the question.

um no question there sir, just scum saying the quick lynching is pro town

Try again.

A great deal of his analysis focuses around you being scum. Is that analyzing very well?

[Haschel Cedricson]

oh that question, yes he made some really good points, AND NOOOOOOOO FRIEND A QUICKLYNCH D1 IS NOT, AND NEVER WILL BE GOOD UNLESS THERE IS A N-0 AND A COP GETS A GUILTY BUT THERES NOT SO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

So you agree that "[you have]scum intent in [your] vote on Jack," and "drmyshottyizsik's post 79 does not read as genuine,"?

These are good points?

RedCoyote, respond.

[Haschel Cedricson]

@ HC NO but looking at it from his prospective it makes sense, and why are you over looking the mislynch thing
And @ Friend, but scum hunting would also give us info,plus at the end of the day someone dies anyway, so why do you want less scum hunting and info?

A wrong argument is hardly "well done analysis."

And what mislynch thing are you talking about? Do you mean the quicklynch thing? I agree with Friend and Jack. At least I did. Now I think it may be worth keeping you around for a day*.


*A real-life day, not a game day.

[Haschel Cedricson]

To which reactions are you referring?

His reaction's to Jack's initial argument, and, further, his changing of opinion on how Robb was being approached. If someone misreads a post, it takes courage to admit you were wrong. Yes, it can be a manipulative ploy, but I don't think that's the case here. I think the doc genuinely misunderstood Jack's observation originally, and then, upon clarification, changed his opinion.

How do you reconcile that with this:

Furthermore, if Jack HAD meant "all games", wouldn't he be wrong? Like, blatantly wrong? So wrong that Jack's case on robb comes across as scummy? You don't act like that's how you read Jack's statement; you instead focus on how it's too early in the game to make cases and other stuff that has nothing to do with attacking Jack's blatantly wrong case.

The conclusion? You didn't misread Jack's post, and are now backpedalling.

[Haschel Cedricson]

(there HAS to be 3 Mafia- it's illogical given the premise of this game to have 2)

Premise

This game has exactly one mafia with three members. If two out of the three mafia members are eliminated, the remaining mafia member waves a white flag and surrenders. Thus, the town wins.

Thanks for the hard-hitting analysis, chief.

[Haschel Cedricson]

EBWOP: Robbnva, why are you voting for drmyshottyizsik? Be specific.

[Haschel Cedricson]

How do you reconcile that

Wait a minute, wait a minute. When did the doc focus on "it's too early to make cases"? The closest thing I can find to this is post 36, where he actually responds to a question directed at Robb. Even here, this is more critical of Jack for having no basis for his vote rather than complaining about the fact that Jack had a case.

Well, sure, he didn't use those exact words; that's a paraphrasing I used because I didn't feel like going back and find the quote. Here it is:

Dude stop pushing for a lynch pre game

Translation: Pre-game is too early to make cases.

And you haven't really acknowledged my point, which is if drmyshottyizsik had honestly misread what Jack was saying, he would have tried to expose Jack's case as awful, awful reasoning. Before he said "Oh I see what Jack meant now," do you really think drmyshottyizsik was playing like somebody who had made that specific misinterpretation of Jack's case?

Really

really?

[Haschel Cedricson]

You'd have to ask the doc what he actually thought Jack meant (you're jumping to conclusions when you claim to know what it was)...

Well it's a good thing I did exactly that, then:

he is saying that rob confirmed in thread because mafia's pm's dont say to confirm by pm, and it makes sense

And elaborate on how you misread it.

I thought he meant all games, not just our mod

[Haschel Cedricson]

Actually that's fair. I had forgotten that you had asked that. So your conclusion is that because the doc wasn't aggressive enough against Jack, even though it was obvious that he didn't agree with him, he's scum (among other things, but this being the crux of your vote)?

Sort of. There's a huge difference between Jack having a bad case and Jack having no case. Doc played it as the latter, when his self-professed belief should have played it as the former. Therefore he's lying about his belief, and everything else looks bad from there.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I hope this explains my thought process a little better, apologies if It came off the wrong way.

Do you think that drmyshottyizsik is scum? If so, why? If not, who do you believe is scum?

[Haschel Cedricson]

I hope this explains my thought process a little better, apologies if It came off the wrong way.

Do you think that drmyshottyizsik is scum? If so, why? If not, who do you believe is scum?

This question I will address once I get to a pc, but short story. Yes I think he is scum

[Haschel Cedricson]

Mod: RedCoyote is actually voting for me.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Hey yabba, what are your thoughts on RedCoyote?

[Haschel Cedricson]

The not contributing point is false. I fluffed in the preliminary stages, yeah, but it's certainly not the case now.

##Vote Robbnva for not knowing Psyduck. C'mon man, you don't know what Pokémon are? /:|
...##Unvote

[Haschel Cedricson]

OHHHH... OHH... AWWWWW- GROSS!

*shields eyes*

...why?!?!?

The incongruity made my eyes explode.

[Haschel Cedricson]

The remaining scum lies in Robbnva (for reasons others have clearly stated)

Which reasons are these?

[Haschel Cedricson]

ok got to a pc real quick and started to read back, I actually am not as sure about shotty being scum anymore.

Why not?

[Haschel Cedricson]

ok got to a pc real quick and started to read back, I actually am not as sure about shotty being scum anymore.

Why not?

Because besides from the OMG YOU HAMMERED ME, I really haven't seen anything that scummy, maybe I'm missing sonething, but I just don't see it.

Did you see post 106?

[Haschel Cedricson]

EBWOP: Why did you find drmyshottyizsik scummy in the first place?

[Haschel Cedricson]

You are not willing to give him benefit of the doubt that he really misread it?

You have never misread anything in your whole life?

If that is really your only evidence for pushing a lynch, your case is weak

Sure, I've misread things. I also acted like I had misread them.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Haschel what are you trying to achieve with this argument here? A DMSIS vote?

Not necessarily. Just trying to pinpoint exactly what Robb's thoughts towards docmyshottyizsik are.

[Haschel Cedricson]

What will you do with those thoughts once you have them?

Depends how drmyshottyizsik flips, or how other people answer questions directed towards them.

[Haschel Cedricson]

FoS: zoraster

for reminding the scum to submit night actions.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Robb and Data are the first choices to come to mind, although Wisteria's missing that it was L-1 seems odd in light of the fact that Robb's vote was literally the post before hers and was made over an hour before her post so she shouldn't have missed it.

Wisteria, have you played with drmyshottyizsik before? Your use of the phrase "policy lynch" suggest you have but your post history suggests otherwise.

[Haschel Cedricson]

basically robbs play yesterday is him knowing drmyshotty is innocent, but wanting the lynch to go through. You can see the conflict.

My thoughts exactly.

##Vote: Robbvna

[Haschel Cedricson]

As for your second question, I have some history with him, but I'm not going to specify how or where.

That's not very helpful.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I'd much rather we tried for a better lynch

Who's a better lynch?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Hammer is fine.

[Haschel Cedricson]

So what's the course of action with the nightkill? If, by some huge stroke of luck, there actually isn't a nightkill, who are we crossing off? Data for sure, then me, Jack, HC, and Wisteria? If there is a nightkill, I'm thinking tomorrow's lynch probably should come from this group as well.

It depends on zoraster's response to a question I asked him.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I think that question is answered in the rules.

A man can dream, can't he?

[Haschel Cedricson]

It wasn't the hammer. DMSIS is not smart enough to pretend to be hammered and say "welp I'm town" as scum.

This is dismissive, but if Friend actually were to believe this, then how is it that he can still call the doc scum?

Eh maybe you're right.

##vote: DMSIS

Instead of going with his "DMSIS is not smart enough to do this as scum", he limps back onto the wagon after testing the waters with his Robb vote.

By the way, I think this sequence adds pro-town points to Friend in light of docmyshottyzsik's flip. You'll need more evidence for your case, RC.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I'm down.

##Vote: RedCoyote

[Haschel Cedricson]

##Unvote RedCoyote

. Don't worry, I'll put it back in a little bit. I just need a sounding board for my theory.

If RedCoyote is scum (which I do believe), his last partner has to be Scott, doesn't it?

[Haschel Cedricson]

On second thought, it doesn't matter.

##Vote: RedCoyote.

Your turn, cloudocean.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Your turn, cloudocean.

EBWOP: I know you're online. Let's make it happen.

[Haschel Cedricson]

You don't want to wait for his claim?

No, I want you to hammer.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I'd prefer cloudocean, as we know he was definitely there in time to send in the kill.

##Vote: cloudocean

.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Ah, missed that.

##Unvote, #Vote: Scott Brosius

[Haschel Cedricson]

Stupid octothorpe.

##Vote: Scott Brosius

[Haschel Cedricson]

Also, in retrospect I wonder if RedCoyote's best friend was docmyshottyizsik. He really should have claimed if that were the case.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Damn, so close.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Man, the surviving Mafia made 6 and 8 posts in the entire game.

There's a lesson here somewhere.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I think the mechanic was really great.

Agreed. A++ would play again.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I'm not going to blame Jack when I independently came to 90% of his conclusions. The RedCoyote mislynch was the turning point, and that was hardly Jack's fault.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I'm like brett favre robbn, a gunslinger, you can't play mafia well unless you're just havin fun out there.

Have you decided if you're going to return to Mafiascum.net for another season?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Wait, there was a Dead Lounge? Where?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Ideally on the day red was lynched, I would have voted, and haschel, and it would have looked like a full speed ahead quicklynch. Then if cloud or scott had willingly hopped on it would have been pretty revealing. cloud did end up revealing himself as scum that day anyway, unfortunately with it was with his awkward hammer vote. Really should have gone with him the last day.

I'm still not sure I see it. If scott had voted for Red, what would that have shown?

Well, it might have convinced me to take my vote off of Red, since Scott was the most logical partner for Red.

It might not have, though; I forget what conclusion I came to at the end of that day.