Mini 980 - Trader Mafia (Game Over)

[Zang]

Hi, everybody. I have three pages to read (I didn't think there would be this much pre-game talk.

Also, why is everyone voting? You do realize that you can't unvote.

[Zang]

Ok, I see

I thought that when you voted for somebody, you had to keep your vote on them.

[Zang]

##vote:Jack

are you claiming scum?

[Zang]

##vote:Jack

are you claiming scum?

[Zang]

@ farside: We could have the Vig be the town killer, and have the Cop investigate the Vig the first night. That would clear up his alignment. The only way he could get around that is if he had invest-immune as well. Which we could complexify by jacking the price up.

unless scum take the cop.

Just so everyone knows, there is a breaking strategy that guarantees a town win.I havnt read the rest of the thread, but please no one vote or bid until I can get home and detail the win.

your a little late. There are already bids on every power and there have been a few votes. And even if you had a great plan, scum would probably still bid on the kill.

[Zang]

So, half the players have just put down irreversible votes in Zang's mind? He seems remarkably chilled about it. Then asks Jack if he's claiming scum, which he clearly isn't - I just can't think why you'd ask that question. Not saying anything of interest during the auction is also a point against him (and probably a few other people) - scum would be way more secretive about what they were thinking then.

i don't see why misunderstanding a rule makes me scum.

How would I know if he was claiming scum? He voted for himself (which I don't know why a townie would want to do) and didn't give an explanation. And I did post during bidding.

Vote: Fishythefish

[Zang]

##Vote: Fishythefish

[Zang]

It's not the rule misunderstanding; it's the way you reacted to what you would have perceived as a total disaster for the town. If you thought that several players had cast votes they couldn't take back, why on earth were you so calm about it?

because I knew something was wrong.

Self voting during the early game is clearly not claiming scum.

well, not in the RVS but I wasn't sure If there was an actual RVS in this game or if the votes were based on what happened pre-game.

Why are you voting for me?

because your reasons are quickly and badly thought through.

[Zang]

You're zang's scumbuddy, and that's why you instantly knew he wasn't the double voter.

why am I scum if I don't have the doublevote?

@Jack/Zang: Why buy double voter?

I didn't

@Zang: I don't see what you mean by "because you knew something was wrong", in the context of your post about unvoting. Could you try to rephrase that?

I didn't think you all couldn't misread the rules so I knew that something was wrong.

[Zang]

And why did you say I have it?

[Zang]

So Jack, why did you buy the doublevote?

I already answered that.

Are my posts invisible to you?

[Zang]

Vote: Jack

[Zang]

##Vote:Jack

[Zang]

Zang why did you vote on Jack?

Not answering my questions.

[Zang]

Vg

I'd call this justified, unless there's a big Jack/Zang feud I don't know about

I don't think so.

[Zang]

Steam-Powered Shovel ( 0 ) NavyCherub,

Mod

-Is this vote count correct?

Nope. Apparently my vote count skills have departed me. My apologies

[Zang]

Wrong wagon guys. The wagon we are looking for is the Jack wagon which has mysteriously dispersed after some 'OMG DV IS VOTING JACK' shenanigans(which is, ironically, him too.

Don't know what I think of that, but I don't like it.

>.>).

aka "I'm trying to make this sound terribly suspicious but can't"

In other news: For some reason, I am almost always the top choice for D1 wagons >.>.

aka "this wagon on me isn't because I'm scummy; everything scummy that I've done is totally just a null tell guys"

Are you going to keep ignoring me?

[Zang]

I think Pickpocket is pretty much a third-party role because the person who has it is probably trying to get a money win.

[Zang]

Jack is scum.

He needs more votes.

[Zang]

Jack is scum.

He needs more votes.

I just bought a second one. Or are you offering to lend me yours?

Now that your acknowledging me, are you going to respond to my accusations against you?

[Zang]

Do you actually read posts?

Are my posts invisible to you?

Zang why did you vote on Jack?

Not answering my questions.

Are you going to keep ignoring me?

ignoring people who are trying to look into him (Zang).

 

[Zang]

they loan enough to get the money win

1. Have at least $1000 in cash

minus debts

AND

Also Jack, do you still not understand?

[Zang]

That seems obviously impossible though...

Well, it's only one of the two ways to get a money win.

[Zang]

Uh no, you need both 1000$ and 50%. Zoraster made it fairly clear it's not meant to be all that viable.

yes, but you can win with 50% if you don't have 1000.

[Zang]

No.

1. Have at least $1000 in cash minus debts AND
2. Have at least 50% of total cash in the game (of those alive)

Note the "AND".

What I think it means is that you need 1000 and 50% but you don't need 50% and 1000.

For example, if there is only 800 you would only need 400 to win because you can't get 1000 because there is not that much cash in the game.

[Zang]

Ok

I misread.

[Zang]

Do you still think this now that you know how hard it seems to be? I, personally, think it is probably more of a scum ability; they want the ability to outbid the other team since the team's ability to combine their money makes them the only competition for each other, and it doesn't seem very town to want to take money from potentially other townies.

Well, look at the cost of pickpocket when it was sold. I don't really think scum could afford that if they were focusing on the night kill.

But, yes it does seem more of a scummy role.

[Zang]

Zang has obviously never played with Haylen before. Self-voting in the RVS is not a scumtell, and I'm not even sure that it's a scumtell outside the RVS. Town have been known to do it

Well, I replaced into a game with her in it but I guess that doesn't count. But what j was saying was that I didn't know it was RVS, I thought they were voting for their suspicouns they got in pre-game.

I signed up for this game with the intent of trying to win via the money-win. But now that there's the $1000 criteria AND the 50% of all total $$ criteria, I see that as unlikely to happen. :/

So did I.

[Zang]

Why is everybody changing their vote off of VV?

[Zang]

Sorry for not posting much.

 You know who is lurking hardcore this game? 

##vote:Andrius

Is every wagon led by you? And why do you only vote for people because they are lurking?

1 Mugger x 1 - This one-shot ability may be used at night against another player. This will steal all cash and abilities from that player, leaving that player with nothing. That player will retain any debt they had before. You may NOT mug yourself and if you are mafia you may not mug your teammate. 
MB: 50 CB: 0 Deadline: Not Yet Open - Opens 6/15

2 Banker - This gives the ability to set the interest rate on debt. You may set it at 2%, 5%, 10%, or 15% . You must submit this before the night, and it will be in effect the night after you have submitted. So if you submit 5% on Day 2, it will become the interest rate for night 3. Players will be informed of the upcoming interest rate. Finally, this ability gives the Banker a 20% discount on all abilities being sold because of bankruptcy. For example, if Ability X is put on the market because of bankruptcy, and the Banker ends up purchasing that ability for $100, he will only have to pay $80.
MB: 10 CB: 0 Deadline: Not Yet Open - Opens 6/15
4 Promotion - You receive a $75 wage increase (in addition to your current wage), but in order to receive this increase each night you must choose one player to promote under you. This player will receive a permanent $25 wage increase (in addition to their previous wage). You may only promote each person once.
MB: 75 CB: 0 Deadline: Not Yet Open - Opens 6/15

With these roles somebody could achieve the money win.

I am so sad that we are lynching Andrius today. . I wanted to see him do that thing he did in Greek Mythology(ie. Prance around the thread being confirmed scum. Also call out to your scumbuddies.). 

Still, this feels staggeringly similar to his earlier D1 play at Greek Mythology(when I was still alive). (btw, Do other Greek Mythology alumni agree?) 

##Vote: Andrius

There was only 2 votes on him when you voted, why did you think he would be lynched? Also why did you vote for him?

He's scummier, see that totally fake bit I quoted. Totally fake scumhunting = mafia every time.

Calling somebody a lurker and then telling people to vote for him isn't scumhunting either.

 VV is getting on any wagon that isn't his

So has Jack and SK.

While wagon hopping is in fact scummy, the fact that there is no other wagon(other than myself) is a little predicament. I'm mostly trying to make the most of my vote here, do you prefer that I withhold my vote and not give you any information?

So the farside and andrius wagons aren't wagons?

##Vote: VasudeVa 

ISGMEOY: SaintKerrigan

Any reason why?  

Oh Joy, I'm at L-1 again.

So are you going to claim before someone hammers.

I'll

FoS: VasudeVa

because I want to hammer but I want to see if he'll claim. I also think Jack is scummier but it's doubtful that he will be lynched today. 
  

[Zang]

Why is andrius scum?

And I'm surprised Jack is town but

FoS:SK

[Zang]

why FoS me instead of vote me?

Because it's not based on anything besides both jack and VV being town.

Zang is not helping rid himself of the lurkerscum image I have of him.

I know, I'll try to be more active.

##Unvote: Andrius
##Vote: Zang

Andrius confirming he has a role makes him more likely to be town. Moving on to the lurking man with the empty words.

I'm not the only lurker.

[Zang]

But right now you're MY special lurker. See earlier accusations of not saying much other than going after Jack, etc.

Well, at least I'm trying to contribute instead of just posting mindless comments like "Bidding is so interesting" and "The font size is huge".

Which reminds me

##Vote: Nobody Special

[Zang]

Ok, I'm here and I'll post something tommorow

[Zang]

The winner in the "doing nothing" race by a tiny margin is NS. Zang is actively not paying attention and that bothers me but, of the three, he's my iffy one.

Are you accusing me of active lurking? 
Or just not paying attention and if so, why is that scummy?

I do agree with your vote though.

I need to reread NS and Zang, oh wait I'm done because they've been lurking hard (I know I'm one to talk right). I'm not just ready to vote yet, I need to mull it over.

FoS: Zajnet

This is very hypocritical considering that I've made more posts than you.

I agree that the cop should claim his result and then sell. *waits for people to jump on him again*

I think this is a good idea.

Zang never does anything, there is nothing new here.

At least I try.

[Zang]

He was active lurking.

[Zang]

I will be V/LA Friday to Sunday

[Zang]

I'm back from my V/LA and I'll post something soon.

[Zang]

##Vote: Andrius

and SK- I'm the pickpocket

[Zang]

I got $34 from zajnet.

[Zang]

All right, we've got a problem. Zang and Zaj can't both be town.

why not?

Thus, we can safely conclude that at least one of Zang and Zajnet, if not both of them, are scum. Zajnet seems to be the proper first lynch, but before we start voting, the person who is selling the Pickpocket should claim, especially if it isn't Zang. Zang, if it's you, why did you sell the Pickpocket? (I think I know the answer but say it anyway.) Also, claim your previous Pickpocketing targets.

I sold it because i'm in debt.

Day 1 I pick pocketed flashstorm (now AlmasterGM)
Day 2 I pick pocketed easjo (now Nopointinactingup)

[Zang]

Oh and Zang: So you're the one that outbid me on the Pickpocket. I'd say damn you, but it turns out it was good thing I didn't blow all my money on that.

Ya, it wasnt really worth that much money.

I'm going to reread and look for Andrius' buddy. Although, admittedly, I'm really not worried about Andrius' buddy because we can be pretty sure he was the one with the NK, and that means that he doesn't have much money left to do anything. It's the other scum team that scares me. You know, the one that likely contains SaintK.

I disagree, Andrius' buddy is the one that has the nightkill so i think he is more dangerous to the town. And also look at the market, the other mafia probably used all their money on the arsonist so that Andrius' buddy would have more money.

Oh, by the by, don't bother bidding on Andrius. He had zilch cash when I mugged him, which means there's only $30 there for the taking.

So, bid 1 on him and you gain $29 to pay off your debt.

[Zang]

Since then, he’s said a couple of interesting things about pickpocket (interesting since he bought it). Firstly that the pickpocket was probably pretty much a third party role, going for a money win. Now, I struggle to believe that. I think there were clear and good reasons to buy pickpocket for 250 (I bid something close to that myself), but that the money win is not one of them – you clearly aren’t going to recoup the kind of debt involved. I struggle to see why townZang the pickpocket would post this. Secondly, he said that “it seems like a scummy role” but that “scum could probably not have afforded it if they were focusing on the NK”. These again are comments fitting far better with a scum player with no intention of claiming pickpocket than with a town player who is going to claim it at some stage.

well then why would I claim pickpocket when I was asked?

Other than that, Zang has done very little in this game. His play is very in keeping with under-the-radar scumplay.

That's pretty much how all my play is regardless of my alignment.

So. I think Zang is a scum pickpocket. Given his comment on scum bidding for the NK, it’s likely he’s not Andrius’s partner.
@Zang: why did you make those comments about the pickpocket?

What was I supposed to say? If I said it was scummy, when I claimed you would call me scum and lynch me. If I said it was town, when I claimed you would have said that I said that to make me look town and lynch me. If I didn't say anything you would accuse me of lurking and (probably) lynch me. So I said what I actually thought.

Who is scum?

SPS, nopoint and either fishy or AGM

[Zang]

Zang: you say you said what you actually thought on pickpocket. Meaning you thought that it was a scummy ability, but one that scum probably didn't have enough money to buy because of the nightkill

You don't agree?

I really don't believe you said that as a protown pickpocket. It's unnatural to call your abilities scummy,

So as a pro-scum pickpocket, I would?

As to why you claimed, you may have thought it would get Zajnet lynched

Then why did I say that he had the correct amount of money?

Any reasons for that scumlist?

Yes, SPS and Nopoint aren't doing anything and SK and Zaj are town so that leaves you or AGM as the final scum.

[Zang]

@ Zang: Why am I town?

well you caught andrius so I don't think you would be his partner. You could be part of the other scum team but I doubt it because of your overall pro-town play.

If you were aware of the (pretty good) reasons that made it sensible for a town player to bid $251 (or presumably a bit more) on the ability, you simply wouldn't think that it's predominantly a scummy ability. Similarly

Well, nobody else pointed out the reasons for a town pick pocket.

Similarly, you'd have no reason to make your comment about the money win; that surely wasn't the reason you bought the pickpocket.

Actually it was. I assumed that there would be more money related roles on market later on and I thought that I could outbid thoose with the money I got from the pickpocket without going to much in debt.

But my case is that your behaviour has no protown explanation.

But it also has no pro-scum explaination. I'm not the most pro-town player.

[Zang]

Only 2 for pickpocket.

[Zang]

1> Why did you claim pickpocket and why do you think it will benefit the town?

I claimed pickpocket because I was asked to and it would benefit the town because it couldve caught zaj as scum.

[Zang]

1> If you are concerned I might be Mafia B then it's a tempting move for the real Mafia A to claim right now to eliminate a mafia B to increase their chance of winning.

why would the real mafia A claim? We would just lynch them tommorow.

2> If you are concerned with the fact that I might have Arsonist, I would like to ask you where do I get such money to buy Arsonist $300 when NK $147, Firefighter $121, and NS' estate $100 pile up on my debt?

You might not even have the firefighter.

[Zang]

SPS-Why did you claim when you were outed as scum instead of before when we were looking for a mafia A counterclaim?

And I think fishy is the second mafia B, he insisted on lynching nopoint even though it could possibly bring doom to the town and him outing SPS seems way to convienent.

##Vote: FishyTheFish

[Zang]

P.S. I find it very peculiar that when faced with two confirmed scum you're voting for someone else entirely.

that's because if he is scum (which he probably is) he is definitaly mafia B.

[Zang]

Day 1-

Took out 300 loan
bid 251 on pickpocket (got it)
paid 100 on loan.
Pickpocketed AGM and got 20.

Day 2-

Pickpocketed Nopoint and got 38.75

Day 3-

pickpocketed zajnet and got 34.

Day 4-

Sold pickpocket and got 2.



Who did buy my pickpocket?

[Zang]

Thanks for assisting in erradicating your partner

##Vote:SPS

Vote for fishy! He's the one with the nightkill.

[Zang]

SK, do you still have the doctor? If so protect nopoint.

[Zang]

Sorry, I didn't think there would be so much talk during twilight. Or that it would last so long. And

##Vote: Fishythefish

I know you are wrong.

##Vote: SPS

This is one of the scummiest hammers ever.

FMPOV, I think my hammer is justified. SK is mistaken about the loan repayment system (as the mod will confirm when he ends the day). A quicklynch on me could have happened, particularly with one or more of our CONFIRMED SCUM quickhammering.

Why didn't you post this with your hammer? Instead of just saying "you're wrong".

Thanks, but I'm protecting someone that I think is town.

If you protected nopoint, there would still be three factions in the game which would help the town. You picked a good person to protect.

Who did you protect?

 Somebody might be lit on fire though.

Zajnet has been tunnelled on me for the whole of today, and would have voted for me at the drop of a hat. Zang and SK were already voting for me. At least one SPS and NPAU would both obviously be happy to vote for me to save their own skin - both if they are scumbuddies. We probably weren't going to get mod intervention before deadline. A quickhammer was my only option in that situation.

So you only hammered to save yourself?

And that's not the reason for hammering you said before.

Hammering someone is not a scummy action. Preventing your own lynch to lynch known scum is not a scummy action, when there isn't time to derail the case on you by better means (ie. waiting for the mod in this situation).

There were only 2 votes on you, you had enough time to explain your situation.

Earlier he said he pickpocketed 38.75 off of Nopoint. However, since Fishy's mathematics absolutely requires the mod to be rounding off all of his numbers, that means the 38.75 from Nopoint would actually have been rounded up to 39. This definitely looks like a calculated number by Zang to try and support Nopoint's story.

I probably should have been clearer, I think i got 39 but it said I pickpocketed him and got 38.75 because that's the actual 20% of his money.

EBWOP: How did Zang know he got $38.75, a fractional number, off a Pickpocket?

I got it because that was 20% of nopoints money.

Zang: Did you or did you not receive $20 from AGM on the N1 Pickpocket?

I did, I targeted him because he didn't arrive until after bidding was pretty much completed. So I thought he would still have all of his money (I was correct).
 

[Zang]

SLAM DUNK, gg scum.

Now we just need to decide who to lynch first.

what?

[Zang]

Sorry, I did get 25.

[Zang]

V/LA until Tuesday

[Zang]

##Vote: Nopointinactingup