Mini 986: Beatles Mafia (Game Over)

[danakillsu]

I love the beatles.

vote: inHimshallIbe

unless he explains his name.

[danakillsu]

@VasudeVa
Thanks for letting us all know. I think there are a few others on this site whose first language is not English, but refuse to admit it. It makes it a lot easier on us all when someone just tells us.

[danakillsu]

I would hand a live grenade to inHimshallIbe for not explaining his username and OMGUS voting me. I always have a suspect D1, so that's not a problem. I must commend petrolemjelly for his style of vote count. It's exactly what I've always wanted.

[danakillsu]

It was an RV, no? Why do you consider it OMGUS?

He obviously voted for me simply because I was voting for him, and didn't even bother giving a fake reason for it. Just because it's "RVS" doesn't mean OMGUS is impossible.

[danakillsu]

^^^scummy

How so?

Dan's defensiveness and pandering to the mod raises eyebrows.

a) It's dana
b) defensiveness?
c) Sorry that I complimented the mod for giving me the kind of votecount I like, but hardly ever see. If I was the mod, I know I'd appreciate it when people recognized my hard work. Sheesh. I might start getting defensive if this wagon builds up any more.

[danakillsu]

Except he's not scumhunting.

Way to say something negative about me with no basis. It's the second page, I have revealed one person as acting scummily, and you are already accusing me of not scumhunting. Who made you king of MafiaScum? I missed the coronation.
My case on inHimshallIbe is a better one than most people have, especially you.

[danakillsu]

I would join the Karma wagon, but at least Karma's trying. InHimshallIbe hasn't done anything except vote for me.

[danakillsu]

@ The Skeward
I think you're right, and for that reason I like the MonkeyMan wagon as well, but I still prefer inHim, because he just voted AGAIN with no reasoning.
Right now I would lynch:
inHim
MonkeyMan
Karma (maybe)

In that order. And ekIM, just try putting yourself in my shoes. Most people on this forum would probably resort to foul language if they recieved three votes in two pages with little to no reasoning.

[danakillsu]

I resent being called a VI. Nervousness in the RVS is a scumtell.

That may be a weak scumtell at best, but you haven't proven that I was nervous. I haven't switched my vote this entire game, and I haven't gone postal or anything, so I don't know where you get this. With every post of the same old case, you become more and more scummy in my book.

[danakillsu]

@muh316, Anon, VasudeVa: I've provided reasons why I think that, although similar, a MonkeyMan lynch is better than a Karma lynch. Do you agree? Would you jump onto this wagon?

At this point Im thinking one of Monkey or Karma is scum.

Also, if Monkey is scum, Zang is 100% scum with him.

Yeah, Monkey, Zang, and inHim do make a convincing scum team.

[danakillsu]

Way to say something negative about me with no basis. It's the second page, I have revealed one person as acting scummily, and you are already accusing me of not scumhunting. Who made you king of MafiaScum? I missed the coronation.
My case on inHimshallIbe is a better one than most people have, especially you.

This = nervousness. And what's your case on me? Purely OMGUS?

I beg to differ. There's nothing remotely nervous about that post. I clearly made the point that more scumhunting than I had done at that point was impossible, and that Monkey saying that about me and expecting others to buy it was simply ridiculous. The most you could say about that post was that it showed frustration, which is obviously understandable.
And what case are you talking about? Notice how I didn't put you on the scum team I proposed and never fosed you or voted you. Who's nervous now? The player who argues somewhat vehemently that he is scumhunting or the player who believes others are trying to lynch him who aren't?

[danakillsu]

This is suspecting me, even if it is slightly. You have no reason for it other than OMGUSing.

Okay, sure. I suspect you, but I don't have a formal case on you. I find your arguments against me very suspect. If that's OMGUSing to you, fine.

I have 4 votes. That means players are trying to lynch me - for what, I don't know. I made a case on dana and I stand by it.

This is a misrep. I did NOT say no one is trying to lynch you. I said that you believe I have made a case against you (which would mean I want you lynched) when I did no such thing. You essentially said I want to lynch you, and that is somewhat paranoid/nervous, at least more so than me. Your case appears to boil down to nervousness, which isn't much of a case, and can't be proven.

[danakillsu]

@Dana: How am I misunderstanding this quote:

the player who believes others are trying to lynch him who aren't?

It's in reference to me, no? That makes it seem I think people are trying to lynch me when they aren't. But, people are trying to lynch me. So, what am I missing?

You essentially said I want to lynch you, and that is somewhat paranoid/nervous, at least more so than me.

Where did I say that? I said that you suspected me. Which you admitted that you did. Now you're just contradicting yourself.

Your case appears to boil down to nervousness, which isn't much of a case, and can't be proven.

It started as nervousness, which is a good starting point for a case, but now it includes contradictions and outright lies.

@VasudeVa: I think you meant to vote dana. It's okay, just use preview next time.

A) What is your problem, man? LRN2RD, PLZ! I JUST SAID THAT WHAT THAT MEANT IS THAT YOU THINK THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO LYNCH YOU, WHO IN FACT ARE NOT! That would be me, specifically. There ARE players who are trying to lynch you. But they are not me, and you have said that I was trying to lynch you, because you asked what my case was on you. If I had a case on you, I would be trying to lynch you.
B) If you had put the sentence before this quote in the quote, it would make sense. Why are you intentionally quoting me out of context? You asked what my case on you was, which implies that I'm am trying to make a case on you, which implies that I want you lynched. Just because I said maybe I would want to lynch you Day 3 doesn't mean that I have a case against you.
C) Where are your contradictions and lies now? Is there anything not discussed in this post? Because a maximum of one contradiction and no lies can be found in this post. And I've proven there's not even that.

[danakillsu]

I'll give you the short version. I've logically contradicted you for a while concerning your case on me (which means concerning why you want me lynched). You turn around and ask what my case is on you (which means why I want you lynched). I say I am suspicious of your continued baseless accusations, but that I don't want you lynched, and have never really said that I did. This means that you are more nervous than me, because you assume I want a rope around your neck when the most I have said is that I am suspicious of your attack against me and that I would consider lynching you D3 as things stand right now.

[danakillsu]

@Karma (of course)
This may seem stupid to you, but it would be best for you if you just drop your craplogic case against me and move on. I'm pretty sure that you are the only one who thinks I'm scummy at this point, because it's been a while since MonkeyMan posted. Anyway a town vs. town isn't going to help anything, and I think it would be better if we could just move on to scumhunting.

After iso'ing MonkeyMan I can sort of understand the case against him, but it's not exceedingly strong. He hasn't done much besides RVS and attacking me for "not scumhunting" "nervousness" and "pandering to the mod", none of which at this point are good scumtells. It's kind of like Karma, except not as strong.

inHim, however, is very different. He has RVS voted me, confirmed his vote with no explanation, while encouraging others to vote for me, and then declared me town and voted for someone else, both with no reasoning. That's just horrible. More votes for inHim, please.

[danakillsu]

As for inHim, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. My take on it: he RVS voted you, confirmed it when you reacted oddly to pressure, decided you were town based on the exchange between you, MonkeyMan, and Karma, and then moved on to another suspect. Your only issue seems to be that he's not providing reasoning, which is not the superduperscumtell you seem to believe it is - a lot of players just don't tend to provide reasoning for their votes.

But, Skeward, how do you know this? He hasn't said anything like this, so for all I know, it's all been random. He seems to just go with whatever the opinion seems to be at the time and not bother telling anyone why, and I can't stand this. MonkeyMan hasn't given me any reason to believe he's scum creating a case any more than Karma has done. Therefore, my vote stays with inHim, the player that's not even trying to help town.

[danakillsu]

Neither has Shadow Dancer. Why single out inHim?

SD has promised to do better and inHim has actually actively done some things that I find somewhat scummy. Even if voting without reasoning isn't a great scumtell, it's better than nothing, which is what I get from SD.

[danakillsu]

Annnnd... I don't know if this helps for those still on the Karma wagon, but I just realized he's a newbie who has never completed a game as town before. So it's really no wonder he's looking scummy to some.

[danakillsu]

I'm an alt. Why the fuck are you playing the newb card for me.

Whoa. Sorry. How was I supposed to know? It looked like you were a newb who had never played as town before. Nevermind then.

[danakillsu]

This topic was ridiculously far down on the list, so bump.

[danakillsu]

I think inHim is a town-on-town wagon. SB could be scum, but I have newbtown reads from dana and to a lesser extent muh316.

Unless you're an alt, this is ridiculous. I'm not a newbie, especially not compared to you. Want to check my completed games?

dana: defensicveness: Of course - all your posts basically only contain justification for your previous behaviour... But RVS is hardly over, so likely slow town. Also: How is a random vote followd by a cross OMGUS a "case"?! Slightly scummy so far.

What? I've had the most non-defense content of anyone so far! Besides, I called my main attacker town, so I'm really not THAT defensive. And your statement of my case is an oversimplification. It's no wonder you don't quote me here.

dana: Please try to not take things personally. That's always bad in mafia and the most common first step on the way down to VI.

How have I taken things personally, exactly? I haven't said anyone insulted me, personally. I stated that MonkeyMan baselessly said I wasn't scumhunting, but I never thought of it as a personal attack. And once again, unless you're an alt, I don't know where you get off saying I'm going down the road to VI.

Dana&karma: I definitely need to read this confrontation in ISO, just to make sure It's not just the hollow bubble it seems to be so far.

No, don't worry, it pretty much is a "hollow bubble". But it does show that I'm not a VI and don't need to resort to personal attacks, OMGUS, or AtE's.

If there are those still wondering about my involvement in this game for whatever reason, the main cause for my lack of long-winded "attacks" as opposed to "defenses" is that the player I find scummiest isn't giving me any more material to discuss. And neither is MonkeyMan. So what am I supposed to really do other than answer people's questions?

[danakillsu]

It's not just the foul language, it's the whole... tone? It reads hyper-sensitive which rubs the wrong way, but I don't think it's actually scummy.

Oh, I know it's not the foul language, because I haven't resorted to any. That was kind of my point.

I don't think inHim not explaining his votes is a scumtell but he needs to get more involved in the game. Remember there's a difference between a playstyle one disapproves of, and scuminess.

How many times do I have to say that it's not just the playstyle, it's the pattern of votes. He votes for me, calls for more votes for me, jumps off my wagon, and votes for my secondary adversary. That's a scummy flip-flop.

[danakillsu]

@ekiM
btw, why are you voting for a lurker while telling me that lurking isn't a scumtell?

[danakillsu]

Other than inHim, who else do you think is scum?

MonkeyMan could be scum for nearly the same reasons as inHim. Also, I really didn't like SD's post because he says he'd lynch a lot of people and says little of use. Other than that, I don't see any likely scum.

[danakillsu]

OK, dana, that you now do the same - well, I'll call it misinterpretaion for now - on me is something I absolutely do not like! Where do I say I want to lynch

any one

?!

SB: Only player who's posts I really like so far. Not because of actual scum hunting but because he's got his logic straight... He's the only one so far I wouldn't frivoulously D1 lynch...

How about right here? SB is the only one you WOULDN'T lynch. And way to prove that you're scummy by completely ignoring the other things I said in response to you.

[danakillsu]

Yeah, actually listing town reads is definitely NOT a scumtell (I've tried to use it before) but it's not really pro-town unless one of your townreads is the main wagon and you're trying to save him/her. Nobody really needs to know who your town reads are except scum.

[danakillsu]

I'd like to clarify - I don't think listing town reads is scummy. I think it's anti-town.

My position in a nutshell.

[danakillsu]

I disagree but this is a post for MD, not here.

Let's talk real scum. MonkeyMan disappears under pressure...hm.

Everyone disappears, whether under pressure or not.
@mod
I don't know who if any deserves one, but please send out appropriate prods. It seems half our players have gone missing.

[danakillsu]

Yeah, well. I haven't seen this "participation" thing from anyone, including inHim.

[danakillsu]

Whatever.
@Zang, VasudeVa
If I jumped on the MonkeyMan wagon, would you two finish it off?

[danakillsu]

UNVOTE: Monkey
VOTE: muh316

This is the better option here. Continually promising posts, and then delivering us that last post? No scumhunting, just four names of people whose behavior is scummy. Nice try. Monkey deserves a vig shot though, for scumminess and general uselessness.

Wagon go!

I dunno, the fact he posted suspicions was a helpful step.

@all: Sorry, got a new job and adjusting to the schedule of having to wake up early. You should see more evening CST posts from me in the future.

What you must mean is more helpful than you, because it just reflected the opinions of the town.
@ Karma
I really don't think muh is the lynch for today. Even though he has continued to promise content and hasn't given us any, there are two players (inHim and MonkeyMan) who have actively posted scummy material.

I would suggest that everyone vote for one of those. If you're voting for Karma, please switch to MonkeyMan. Anyone else should decide between the two. This would be the most helpful strategy for town, since if Karma is scum, MonkeyMan is scum with him.

[danakillsu]

It's a shame you can't get over a read.

Also, there's very little chance both Karma and MonkeyMan are scumbuddies.

It's a shame you can't help me.
On the Karma/MonkeyMan issue, they pretty much teamed up to try to take me down with horrible reasoning. Even if they're NOT scum together, if you think Karma is scummy, you should think MonkeyMan is even scummier for the same reasons. So you shouldn't be trying to lynch Karma.

So if you see no useful content in that whole argument yourself and also claim to have no secondary (p.e. personal) reasons to keep that debate up, then, according to you, you have only knowingly and willingly created a huge bubble of empty posts to appear to town in one way or another. That is kinda scummy, don't you think? I'll keep it in mind until later, I'll have a look at the muh and monkey cases first.

Let me counter these questions with my own question that really gets at the heart of the matter. What would everyone have thought if I said "Hey, Karma, you're stupid. I'm not going to defend myself against you and I'll just allow you to think I'm scum."

[danakillsu]

V/LA as noted in sig.

[danakillsu]

I can understand why so many people are voting for muh. It seems to be "meh, later" for him.

[danakillsu]

Oh, I always meant to respond to this, and never did.

It was an RV, no? Why do you consider it OMGUS?

He obviously voted for me simply because I was voting for him, and didn't even bother giving a fake reason for it. Just because it's "RVS" doesn't mean OMGUS is impossible.

This is patently wrong.

What an amazing response. You wouldn't happen to have any REASONS to say that, would you?

[danakillsu]

inHim is a weird kill. .

---

I think there is 1-2 scum in SB wagon and 1 scum in inHim. I don't think SD is scum.

Vote: Zang, for now. (I did suspect him sometime in the middle of D1.)

I think that was probably a vig. I'm really confused, though, because neither of my main scumreads was scum. I think the lurkers in this game must be our scum, because they were content to let us lynch SB or inHim.

vote: muh316

[danakillsu]

@ muh316
Time for a claim. And it'd better be good. I do have some ideas brewing in my head, but my vote stays where it is till we get a claim.

[danakillsu]

@muh316
I didn't want you lynched yet, I wanted a claim. I didn't think town should get this much pressure on someone only to turn it off without a claim. I half-agree with those saying the muh case isn't a great one. But I want to see if it has validity by judging your claim. If you delay much longer, I'll begin to think that what we eventually get is your own fakeclaim.

[danakillsu]

Also

FoS: Zang

.
This was what I was referring to when I spoke of the thoughts bouncing around in my head. I will enlighten those who haven't figured it out after the muh issue has been resolved.

[danakillsu]

@The Skeward
Well, one of four things can happen.
1. Everyone just leaves the muh wagon and jumps on Zang or someone else.
2. muh finally claims and we jump on Zang because we are satisfied with muh's claim.
3. muh finally claims and we lynch him for having a claim that doesn't fit.
4. muh refuses to claim, and we lynch him.
After one of these four things happens, I will say why I find Zang very suspicious. I also find muh very suspicious for not simply claiming and letting the town decide whether his claim is believable.

[danakillsu]

@muh
But you should have claimed when you WERE in danger. The fact that you didn't makes me think that you are scum who didn't have a good fakeclaim atm.

[danakillsu]

@muh
But you should have claimed when you WERE in danger. The fact that you didn't makes me think that you are scum who didn't have a good fakeclaim atm.

I was never in danger. Yes I was at L-1 but I knew that nobody was going to lynch me because it was too early.

Stranger things have happened. You're still at L-2, though. And I'm not switching my vote until I get a claim or a good reason to keep you from claiming.

[danakillsu]

Okay, fine. I will consider the muh wagon abandoned since the other people on it are Karma (missing) and Zang (my top scumread).

unvote vote:Zang

Anon pretty much sums it up. Zang constantly saying "Starbuck is town" without any good reason at all shows that he knew from outside information that she was town. And since it was D1, he couldn't be a cop and figure that out.

[danakillsu]

@SD
And I said that...when exactly?
@Zang
I count two posts where you specifically call Starbuck town (one was D2). I count 6 posts (out of 35) where you say something negative about the Starbuck wagon. This is all because you "have no reason to think Starbuck is scum", "don't want to lynch a replacement for things their predecessor did", and "think inHim is scummier". Or something along those lines. The third is decently valid, but the first two are really lame. The others had given you many reasons to believe Starbuck was scum, especially because of MonkeyMan's actions. And not lynching someone just because they are a replacement is horrible policy, because any scum could just get replaced when they were about to get lynched, and prevent their slot's lynch. Die, scum.

[danakillsu]

@mod
Please replace me. I have to be replaced in all my games because I will be gone for over three weeks.

[danakillsu]

Any thoughts about my play before being replaced? Did I destroy the town by insisting Karma was town?