Mini 986: Beatles Mafia (Game Over)

[Zang]

Vote:TheSkeward

Because I want to.

[Zang]

Unvote
Vote: muh316

I FREAKIN HATE THE YANKEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zang]

Why not hop aboard the SB bandwagon then, Zang?

Id rather vote for someone that sticks up for his team.

@Zang: Do you prefer playing as town, scum or SK? Would you, right now, prefer to swap your role PM with muh316's one right now?

Well, I like playing scum but I've been it so often lately, I currently prefer playing as town. (I haven't really ever played SK so I wouldn't know about that).

The second part seems a little like role-fishing. But I might depending on what he has.

[Zang]

@Zang: What do you mean by 'depending on what he has'?

Well, if he has a good role I probably would trade and if he has a bad role I wouldn't.

People need to post. This is the slowest RVS I've ever been part of

really? This is (so far) one of the fastest I've been in.

[Zang]

Yeah, you seem overly concerned about one vote, that's a scumtell. As far as the mod is concerned, if I were you I'd be more interested in scumhunting than mod complimenting. So who do you think is scum so far?

This is suspicous. There were three votes on Dana when he posted the post that you quoted (one of which was yours). And how could he be scumhunting until a few posts before this it was the RVS.

The whole case against Dana is flawed. And I see almost nothing from karma except "He is scum, vote for him!".

Unvote
Vote:Karma

Looking at the other players I see Zang's only comments have been random votes and answers to non-useful questions. Since that finished he's been involved in other game threads whilst neglecting this one.

What? Before today, I haven't posted anything outside of RVS like you, SB and SD. And InHimshallibe is pretty much active lurking. why vote for me?

[Zang]

Are you going to keep saying the same accusations that have already been answered over again or will you come up with something new?

[Zang]

How have these accusations been answered?

Well it has been explained at least three times already that he shouldntve been expected to scumhunt on the second page.

This reeks of being overly defensive over a single vote. Minor scum points for Zang

I'm just confused with why he would vote forme specifically.

[Zang]

Zang: And more rolefishing accusation  Did I ask for your role?

No but asking for a role isn't rolefishing, it's asking for a claim. Rolefishing is asking questions designed to learn more about someone elses role.

[Zang]

@Zang: 'sup. Forgot to add your name in my lurky-list. Are you still fine with your Karma vote?

1. I'm not lurking.
2. I'm fine with my vote but I'm going to change it to inhim the next time he posts because I see no point in voting for him if he gets replaced.

[Zang]

Nothing is wrong with listing town reads. More involvement from me will come this week.

this is it? Not even a comment on the wagon on you?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: InHimshallibe

but I do agree that posting reads isn't scummy.

[Zang]

Why am I scum if monkeyman is?

[Zang]

Yeah, you seem overly concerned about one vote, that's a scumtell. As far as the mod is concerned, if I were you I'd be more interested in scumhunting than mod complimenting. So who do you think is scum so far?

This is suspicous. There were three votes on Dana when he posted the post that you quoted (one of which was yours). And how could he be scumhunting until a few posts before this it was the RVS.

The whole case against Dana is flawed. And I see almost nothing from karma except "He is scum, vote for him!".

Unvote
Vote:Karma

In all your post you attack Monkeyman. Yet your vote is on Karma.

That's because karma did almost nothing but saying that he was scummy and told people to vote for him. To me that's scummier because at least monkeyman had reasons, even if they were flawed.

[Zang]

I am not convinced with your reasoning. Why pick Karma over Monkey? Your attack on Monkeyman seems stronger than your attack on Karma but you voted Karma over Monkey.

do I have to explain it again?

I didn't attack monkeyman, I attacked his accusations. I felt karma was scummier because he didn't do anything besides say that he was scummy.

[Zang]

I will be V/LA Friday to Sunday.

[Zang]

I'm back from my V/LA and I'll post something later today or tommorow.

[Zang]

Continually promising posts, and then delivering us that last post? No scumhunting

Remind you of somebody else?

 More involvement from me will come this week.

@all: Sorry, got a new job and adjusting to the schedule of having to wake up early. You should see more evening CST posts from me in the future.

Lurking is a scumtell, and even if it weren't it should be heartily discouraged. Not giving reasoning for all your actions upfront isn't lurking though.

I also think it would be great if we could somehow force people to contribute more. But I don't know how we do that given that y'all seem totally unwilling to lynch people for lack of involvement. Suggestions? Lynching muh sounds good to me.

I disagree that lurking is a scumtell. Because i have seen a lot of lurkers (including myself) that were town.

O RLY? I think I've showed up this week as much as anyone else.

Yes, but you have provided no real content and that is just as bad as not posting anything at all.  

[Zang]

I'm fine with an inhim or muh lynch (preferably inhim). I don't agree with the wagon on starbuck though, mostly because it's all based on monkeys lurking and when she points this out, you call her scummy.

[Zang]

I'm fine with an inhim or muh lynch (preferably inhim). I don't agree with the wagon on starbuck though, mostly because it's all based on monkeys lurking and when she points this out, you call her scummy.

Goddammit, Zang, read the fucking thread. The case on MonkeyMan is not 'all based on monkeys lurking'. Go read me in iso.

fine

I'm fine with an inhim or muh lynch (preferably inhim). I don't agree with the wagon on starbuck though, mostly because it's all based on monkeys

lurking

actions and when she points this out, you call her scummy.

[Zang]

I put zang on my scum list because he was attacking one person (monkeyman) and voting for another (karma).

I have explained this already.

[Zang]

I apologize for not being able to catch up. I was thrown into a class for work this week (I'm military) that I didn't think would take up this much of my time.

You're the military?? XD
but on a serious note
I think we should give starbuck a chance. Let's see at day 2. Right now I want inhim lynched because He's the second scummiest player around. ut Starbuck deserves a chance.

I agree. Starbuck deserves to have a chance. I think we should lynch inhim, give her the night to finish reading and expect a post tommorow.

I prefer inhim over her because although both aren't posting, inhim had the whole game to catch up while Starbuck barely had 2 pages. And inhim (until now) didn't have as much to read.

[Zang]

I'd like to note that Starbuck had NINE FUCKING PAGES to catch up on, in SEVEN FUCKING DAYS. That's less than a page and a half per day. You can't read a page and a half per day, you don't deserve to be playing mafia. I've been in a game before with Starbuck where she posted barely above the replacement, but it pisses me off that she does this and then trounces out right before deadline all self-righteous-like.

yes but Inhim had at least twice that much time to catch up and didnt even have that many pages to read.

I still think we should lynch inhim and give starbuck the night to catch up when she'll have more time.

[Zang]

I'd like to note that Starbuck had NINE FUCKING PAGES to catch up on, in SEVEN FUCKING DAYS. That's less than a page and a half per day. You can't read a page and a half per day, you don't deserve to be playing mafia. I've been in a game before with Starbuck where she posted barely above the replacement, but it pisses me off that she does this and then trounces out right before deadline all self-righteous-like.

yes but Inhim had at least twice that much time to catch up and didnt even have that many pages to read.

I still think we should lynch inhim and give starbuck the night to catch up when she'll have more time.

Since you still haven't read the case against Monkeymarbuck, I don't care what you think.

Ive read it.

[Zang]

I'd like to note that Starbuck had NINE FUCKING PAGES to catch up on, in SEVEN FUCKING DAYS. That's less than a page and a half per day. You can't read a page and a half per day, you don't deserve to be playing mafia. I've been in a game before with Starbuck where she posted barely above the replacement, but it pisses me off that she does this and then trounces out right before deadline all self-righteous-like.

yes but Inhim had at least twice that much time to catch up and didnt even have that many pages to read.

I still think we should lynch inhim and give starbuck the night to catch up when she'll have more time.

Since you still haven't read the case against Monkeymarbuck, I don't care what you think.

Ive read it.

Given my past experience with you, and given that you haven't commented on it despite my pointing it out to you several times, and given that it doesn't seem to influence your opinions on anything in the game in any way, I don't believe you.

I read it and i didnt comment on it because i agree with it. But i dont agree with lynching a replacement for something the previous player did.

[Zang]

Well, I had nothing to do with your lynch.

[Zang]

[Zang]

Tommorow we lynch inhim.

[Zang]

Because I'm pretty sure she's town.

[Zang]

Because i have no reason to suspect her as scum and it seems scum driven.

[Zang]

]

Vote: Zang

, for now. (I did suspect him sometime in the middle of D1.)

Why?

And again: How could Zang townie have known monkey is not town?

I never said I knew monkey was town. I thought starbuck was town (and I was not the only one). And i thought that she deserved a chance to speak.

 He was off the waggon for metagaming reasons (SB deserves chance to catch up), btw, only later he claimed he also doubted she's scum

I don't really know how that's meta reasoning but it's because she didn't get that chance that I thought she was town.

So two days before the hammer, he felt as if Star deserved a chance. Yet he was willing to hammer 2 days after expressing that sentiment.

I agree that this is scummy.

VOTE: Muh316

i hammered because I didn't want to end up with a no lynch. It was the best thing to do. We wouldnt have been able to do anything considering the extremely low activity from most of the players.

So a mislynch is better than a no lynch?

and Zang (I really really find it hard that a player of his level - no offense - could be able to read Starbuck play as town play

.

I never said she was town because of her play.

Skeward and Zang, why arent you voting?

Maybe because I haven't posted yet?

oh crap really. Last game I was getting warned about no lynch by the mods so I thought it applied here.

Read the rules.

[Zang]

@Zang: You realize you are contradicting yourself, right? Again: Please lay down to me your reasons for being off the monkey/star waggon.

how am I contradicting myself? And I've already explained why I was off it.

@dana 24 hours after day 2 you ask me for a claim
unvote

vote dana

why did you vote dana? I don't see how it's scummy to ask for a claim at L-1.

[Zang]

@Zang: Then I did not understand you correctly. Please explain again - in your own words - for what exact reasons you resigned from the monkey waggon.

I don't think I was on the monkey wagon. But I didn't think starbuck should have been lynched for something monkey did and that she deserved a chance to catch up.

[Zang]

i) Not judging Star on sth. monkey did (why not?)

Because I didn't think she should have been lynched Completely off of what monkey did.

However, I'm not saying that what monkey did shouldn't have been considered with lynching starbuck if she was also scummy.

But later you stated explicitely that you did not think Star was scum!

look at the reasons why I said I thought she was town, they are related to the reasons for me being off the wagon.

[Zang]

eh... What? She did not catch up so she had to be town?

No, she was town because she wasn't given the chance to catch up.

[Zang]

No, she was town because she wasn't given the chance to catch up.

OK, you

really

do not make

any

sense at all. Can you give me

one

good reason why Star's meat world issues should have any correlation with her being scum or town?! The majority of town decided she shouldn't have the chance or rather had it and did not use it. You can have another opinion, but all that has nothing to do with Star's allignment...

What? I never said she was town because of her real world issues.

[Zang]

Okay, fine. I will consider the muh wagon abandoned since the other people on it are Karma (missing) and Zang (my top scumread).

unvote vote:Zang

Anon pretty much sums it up. Zang constantly saying "Starbuck is town" without any good reason at all shows that he knew from outside information that she was town. And since it was D1, he couldn't be a cop and figure that out.

I did not constantly say that she was town, I said it once before she was lynched. And how are my reasons not good? I had no reason to think that she was scum and the fact that nobody was listening to that made me to believe that the wagon was scum driven, which would mean that she was probably town.

[Zang]

I count two posts where you specifically call Starbuck town (one was D2).

Of course i'm going to call her town now. What should I have called her?

The others had given you many reasons to believe Starbuck was scum, especially because of MonkeyMan's actions

I didn't see any reasons besides monkeys actions.

And not lynching someone just because they are a replacement is horrible policy

I'm fine with lynching a replacement, I just don't lynch somebody only because they are a replacement.

So if you honestly thought the waggon was scum driven you'd have one or another solid case against scum on that said waggon by now, right?

I've been to busy defending myself.

[Zang]

V/LA for a few days

[Zang]

I'm back early

Every one listen: Zang's been too busy having no point to have a point. @_@

I have a point, you just won't listen to it.

@Skeward (this also applies to VV, as far as I can remamber): You seem to have prior experiences with Zang in another game. What was his role there and what do you think about Zang's behaviour in this game compared to that game?

TheSkeward was in Victorian Vampire mafia with me and I was a town weak vig.
VV was also in Victorian Vampire mafia with me. And he was in the trader mafia where I was town and had the pickpocket role for part of the game.

I wanna hear his claim now

Ok, I'm "Help!" a 1-shot hider.

[Zang]

No, A hider is the opposite of a bodyguard (a hiders target dies instead of the hider). I haven't used my ability yet but i wouldn't target somebody scummy because if I do I would die.

[Zang]

No, A hider is the opposite of a bodyguard (

a hiders target dies instead of the hider

). I haven't used my ability yet but i wouldn't target somebody scummy because if I do I would die.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Hider

The Hider has the ability to target one player each night. If that player is pro-town, the hider is protected from Night-Kills that night.

If the player targeted is killed that same night, the Hider dies too.

If the player targeted is Mafia, the hider usually dies.

Thx for trying fakeclaiming scumbag.

Confirm vote: Zang,

what does this prove?

[Zang]

I did.

If I'm targeted by a kill, the target will die instead of me. I don't see what that has to do with the target being targeted for a kill.

[Zang]

Thats not how a hider works. A hider and his target will die if the target is targetted by a nightkill. If you are targetted for a kill, your target will NOT die instead of you. Read the wiki I just quoted, FFS.

Which is why you are lying and fakeclaiming scumbaggo.

how does this prove I'm fakeclaiming? Youv'e never seen a mod modify the role for their game so that it's different than what it sais in the wiki?

There is also no reason for Zang to conceal his song and lyrics if he is claiming, but he's doing it any way which most likely means he could not make up anything in time

You didn't say that when starbuck claimed. If i couldn't make up anything in time, why did I claim at L-2 when asked, I couldve easily got more time before claiming.

Just give me one night, I'll hide behind anon and you can lynch me tommorow and see if anon is confirmed.

[Zang]

Give you one night? To make up some song that you now - again - failed to provide. LOL.

I thought you were angry because I did provide a song. Like SB said, I'm Help!. Here are the lyrics if you want them-

When I was younger, so much younger than today,
I never needed anybody's help in any way.
But now these days are gone, I'm not so self-assured,
Now I find I've changed my mind and opened up the doors.

OK, any way. If you are speaking the truth, we could confirm you or get scummy you by having you hide behind another suspect and viggin you (provided there's a non 1-shot vig) and then see who dies... However - you could still be a mafia hider. Also we would need three suspects (you, one to lynch and one for you to hide behind) that town agrees on for this.

Lynch muh and I'll target anon.

[Zang]

I think he might be scum.

I'll hide behind either him or karma.

[Zang]

It looks like Zang's at L-2. I thought he was scummy before, and failing at fakeclaiming hider pretty much seals the deal.

How did I fail at  claiming?

@Karma: If you hide behind scum, are you just killed or does your skill work normally otherwise, i.e. killing attempts on you are redirected to the scum you hide behind? If your role PM does not adress this case properly, PM the mod about it.

I think you mean Zang. But if I hide behind scum I'll die.

 Why do you think Anon might be scum?!

It's mostly a gut read, that's why I want to hide behind him instead of lynch him.

[Zang]

Thanks for not understanding my question... Question was: Is you dying the only effect, if you target scum, or are killing attempts firected at you still redirected to that said scum? If you don't know, your role PM (assuming it's no fake claim) does not adress this case properly, please ask the mod via PM.

If I target scum, they will not be killed.

[Zang]

This answer is still a bit... inaccurate... Just tell me please: If vig targets you and you target scum, who dies, a) you, b) scum or c) both? Just say either "a)", or "b)" or "c)", please.

a

I still think the best course of action is having Zang hide behind someone of our choice tonight, and lynching him tomorrow. There's no point in wasting his power on the chance that he is a hider. He essentially acts as a cop. If he lives into D3, we can lynch him and see his flip. At that point, we benefit from either situation. We either lynch Zang scum or we lynch Zang town but player X who he hid behind N2 would be confirmed town if Zang flips town.

Who do you think I should hide behind?

[Zang]

Yes

[Zang]

I think we should lynch muh today and I can hide behind anon tonight.

[Zang]

So you want me to create a list for massclaim? I would say that fitz should go but he pretty much already claimed so I think anon should claim followed by SD.

[Zang]

I agree with anons list for who should go next.

Fitz-what is your song?

[Zang]

I seriously cant stop feeling bad about the 1-shot modified hider claim. I know I said that a player with an investigation should not be considered for discussion today but after trying to solve the claim puzzle, that piece just doesnt fit in the 2-shot normal claims. I cant stop thinking why Petroleum didnt think a 2-shot hider would be reasonable but a 2-shot vig yes.

I think it's one-shot because it's a combination of roles. It's a killing role, an investigation role and it protects me. The others are simpler and less dangerous.

[Zang]

The more I think about it the more I am convinced Zang is some kind of mafia GF... But still not the best lynch for today.

If I was the scum godfather why would I claim the "useless" "anti-town" hider?wouldn't it be safer for me to just claim vanilla.

[Zang]

I'm

V/LA until Saturday

[Zang]

You really, seriously lyncherd Pie?! @_@

This


And I claimed wrong because I misread my role.

[Zang]

Ya, but I thought it would be better to hide behind somebody because scum would target me because they get two kills if I hide behind someone and one if I don't and so there would be no kill.

And I don't think the outcome of the game wouldve changed that much.

[Zang]

I thought you didnt want me to hide becauase somebody would die if i was targeted but that wasnt the case so i thought it wouldnt be so bad to target somebody.