Mini 963: Furry Mafia (Game over!)

[InflatablePie]

Hello, fellow furries.

Doublevote: Parama

for being the first to vote, among other things.

I see quite a few familiar faces in this game.

[InflatablePie]

@Inflatable Pie - Are you happy, or bothered to see familiar faces.

More towards happy. I enjoy playing with people I know.

FoS: Antiximo

for not paying attention to the game (see: question directed towards Parama).

[InflatablePie]

Defensive much, Anti?

[InflatablePie]

Stop RVSing guys, I think that phase already ended.

Because RVS ends for everyone at the same time, right? Even for the people who haven't posted? How about you point out the exact moment where it ended, then.

[InflatablePie]

Fake god and Brandi are on the same scum team.

Would you like to share your story with the class?

[InflatablePie]

Fake god and Brandi are on the same scum team.

Would you like to share your story with the class?

FakeGod took his teammate's place on the wagon when it was no longer benificial for them to have her on it. They are both acting scummy as well.

Of course, this involves assuming they're scum in the first place, no? I might be missing something or thinking the wrong way.

Pie, it probably ended when people started getting serious about the responses as is the way.

It just irks me when people say "THE RVS IS DONE RIGHT NOW NO EXCEPTIONS" and such. Even if it's not exactly in that tone. I agree that most of us are starting to come out of RVS since we have a wagon is forming, but I think that the RVS usually ends at a different point for everyone.


I have a general idea of where Brandi was coming from in Post 20/ISO 1, but I think Anti may have been genuinely just trying to start discussion. I don't find anything about that scummy at the moment.

Not sure if Anti's temper/defensiveness is scummy or not yet.

Vote: FakeGod

100% scum - I guarantee it.

Is this your RVS vote or do you have something for show-and-tell, too? I can't tell.

[InflatablePie]

EBWOP:

since we have a wagon is forming

Uh... yeah. o_O

[InflatablePie]

I don't like your play either, Pie. You're second on my scum list.

Is it the

scars?

new avatar? I'm thinking of changing mine every game or so...

@Anti: So, continue your scumhunting. What do you draw from my response to your question?

[InflatablePie]

That was posted before your new avatar. Like my new one btw? In the spirit of this game.

It's your over eagerness to seem helpful and question people while posting no real content and contributing hardly anything. My vote still stands on FakeGod, though.

It's a Pikachu. o_o

I don't see a reason as of yet to remove my vote from Parama and I pointed out my thoughts on things that caught my eye in Post Subject 60. My main two points are that Espeon's early buddy-theory is using odd logic unless I misunderstood him and Anti (while defensive) seemed like he was genuinely trying to start discussion.

[InflatablePie]

@Anti: So, continue your scumhunting. What do you draw from my response to your question?

Nothing as of yet. However like i was asking before, why would you rather play with people you know than people you don't?

I enjoy playing with people I know because generally (and in this case), the people I know are fun to play with. Not only that, but it makes scumhunting a lot easier if you know how everyone plays. Of course, good players know how to change their playstyle, so I guess that point is moot.

Playing with new players isn't a bad thing, though, since it opens you up to new playstyles and such.


@Brandi: Playing devil's advocate here, Parama has a bit of an ego, which explains the "air of authority" thing.

However, his general tone and defensiveness so far, plus the slight buddying towards Espeon/Fate isn't something I have seen much from Town Parama iirc. The main reason for my vote was a combination of gut and his meta comment (see: DocPotter's response to that, except I'm serious).

If Parama DOES get lynched and flips scum, I'd also like to take a look at Espeon - he calls FG/Brandi scum after Brandi attacked Parama and FG voted Parama, plus Parama's post calling Espeon town early on.

[InflatablePie]

...Fugi never made a post about loving me...

;_;

Zang, you don't have ANY thoughts on the day so far?

[InflatablePie]

Yup.

ok, I just don't see how you can get a town vine from five letters.

ANSWER MEEEEEEEEEE

[InflatablePie]

Maybe I was wrong with my mostly-gut-read. It's entirely possible that Parama/Brandi are townies who just happened to butt heads - I've seen it before. Parama does that to people.

Unvote

.

I'm keeping my eye on you though, Parama.


Zang isn't looking all that great. I'm going to wait for FakeGod's response as well before I cast a vote that way. However, Espeon's chainsaw-like actions that I mentioned have been bugging me.

Vote: Espeonage

I want to see where this goes.

[InflatablePie]

I got ninja'd by FakeGod. brb reading

[InflatablePie]

FG does have a point with Parama's third point. I don't think I've ever seen a wagon that's mostly RVS votes actually lead to a lynch.

Not sure exactly what to make of the two arguments at this time. Still okay with my Espy vote.

[InflatablePie]

Espeon, I don't think you answered my question in Post 60. Your theory requires that FG/Brandi are scum in the first place, and that is what makes them scummy, no? Circular reasoning much?

Here's what happened, like I said in 84:

If Parama DOES get lynched and flips scum, I'd also like to take a look at Espeon - he calls FG/Brandi scum after Brandi attacked Parama and FG voted Parama, plus Parama's post calling Espeon town early on.

Brandi attacks Parama, Espeon votes Brandi, FG votes Parama, Espeon says Brandi/FG are scum together. Er, what?

Brandi was going overboard. Less about the attack. It was tunnelling early day 1 on the person who had a random wagon.

This may be true, but you just so happened to call out the two people with an actual case on Parama (the rest being RVS votes) and label them scum with no reasoning, almost out of nowhere. This is called a chainsaw defense. It doesn't even matter if Parama is scum at this point, even if Parama is town then it makes you look good for attacking those attacking him.

That is why I'm voting you.

[InflatablePie]

*sigh* Why am I awake when I work all day tomorrow...

Anyways.

Ok it was based around the timing of FakeGod's post. It came just after Brandi unvoted.
I'm not saying I'm right just that it makes alot of sense.
Add to that they were both acting scummy independantly as well and you have a bit of a fishy looking situation.

1) I understand who voted for who and when. I'm just not seeing that you are.
2) It doesn't make sense to me. Again, the premise of your argument seems to be, pretty much, "These two are scum and that's why FG voted Parama after Brandi unvoted, which is scummy since they're scum." That's what I get out of it.
3) Point out how they were "acting scummy independently", please. I want to hear your case on them.

I don't like your circular reasoning here. It seems like a half-assed explanation for starting the Brandiwagon and casting suspicion on what seems to be a newb-townie.


Mornin', Fate. Mind elaborating?

[InflatablePie]

1) I understand who voted for who and when. I'm just not seeing

what

you are.

Fixed.

If you wish, Fate. Personally, I'd prefer to hear it now. Maybe that's just me, though. *shrug*

[InflatablePie]

The fact that we were pulled out of RVS so quickly is also detrimental to the town

What.

[InflatablePie]

Problem is that Brandi is town and FakeGod is scum so even though the logic is good there's some sort of fallacy in it that I have yet to find.

The problem is that at first he seemed to be assuming "these two people are scum so that's why they did this". I think that's the fallacy you're looking for.

And he still hasn't addressed that, or I keep missing it. I know, he gave reasons for both of them being scummy on their own (Brandi tunneling and FG's "appealing"-thing), but the problem is Brandi is town as of now and we have bigger fish to fry than FG right now, IMO.

I had something else to say, but I'm in a rush to get to work and can't remember. This is where it would have gone.

[InflatablePie]

Anti, that was a long goddamn wall of text. As such, I'm only responding to my segment for now.

Hello, fellow furries. Doublevote: Parama for being the first to vote,

among other things.

I see quite a few familiar faces in this game.

This vote seems quite serious mainly because of this comment here. What does he mean by this?

I've played with Parama before. And watched some games he's been in. One game just finished up (offsite) where he got himself modkilled on purpose - this was the main "other thing" I meant. Think I had something else, but I can't recall, tbh.

From page two, you can see InflatablePie is trying quite hard to keep conversed with everyone in the group, getting general opinions from everyone, this isn't bad at all, however i'm curious to see where he's going to go on with it.

Just getting some general reads and gauging reactions.

In page 3, i see that i was right.

He was intent on keeping his vote on Parama from the get-go. However he only had one post to base off of.

His meta comment seemed odd, as I've never heard that from Parama in a previous game IIRC. Then Parama/Brandi began to argue - I left my vote since I didn't see a better candidate at the time.

Interesting..

He feels different than many of the players, they feel Me and Brandi as not scummy from the get-go, and my anger/outburst gives him an 'I don't knoooow" afterthought.

He seems quite certain about our towniness. I'm not sure how to feel about this. Let's continue.

I felt certain that you were genuinely trying to start discussion. Although, long-ass posts are USUALLY town and you do have some okay points from a quick skim, so you're leaning town for me as well.

...Fugi never made a post about loving me... ;_; Zang, you don't have ANY thoughts on the day so far?

cool random post of nothing, also note his reach to other players

The relationship between me and Fugi is kind of hard to explain. As Fugi already mentioned, some of us know each other from an IRC channel/other site - let's just leave it at that. Zang's post seemed off to me, so I mentioned it.

Like I said, nothing bad, just pointing it out.


TL;DR InflatablePie - Tries hard to reach to everyone, however nothing entirely bad in this, except his scum readings seem to end after the first three pages. Then just lurks in my opinion. He feels parama is scum, however defends him to an extent after Brandi does her re-read. Interesting reaction..

I felt that the "air of authority" thing was necessary to point out. Parama can act like an ass and I didn't want people to confuse this with something else.

I've been a bit busy with other things, hence why I'm lurking a bit for now. The people I know in this game can attest to me being more active usually and I realize this.

Here's my quick take on everyone so far.

Antiximo - Leaning town due to his massive wall-o-text.
Brandi - Probably town butting heads with Parama.
broomhead - Only a two posts to go by. Not sure.
DocPotter - Only 5 posts to go by. Not sure. Leaning scum on gut.
Espeonage - Calling FG/Brandi scum in that manner doesn't sit right with me.
FakeGod - Could be scum, could be defensive-newb. Leaning towards the latter.
Fate - Kind of vague about things. Don't have a read.
Fugitive - Only a few posts to go by. Not sure.
InflatablePie - Town.
NavyCherub - Leaning town for now.
Parama - Probably town butting heads with Brandi. If either of them were to be scum, I have a feeling it'd be him. Not sold yet.
Zang - Don't know. Seems to be newbie, lurks a bit... I'll look in to him.

Right now town is looking to be Pie, Navy, Anti, Brandi for sure - if I can't name myself, add FG to the list. If I had to name 4 scum, it'd probably be Espeon, DocPotter, Zang, broom. Most of this is gut. Parama/Fate/Fugi I'm not completely sure on yet.

I have a tendency to find lurkers scummier/active posters townier. Bad mindset, I know. In addition, although I'm starting to get a grasp on everyone by now, it's hard for me to get reads in this game. Really need to hear more from the lurkers, in any case.

I'll try and look into people more over the next couple (Real Life) days. Specifically Zang and FG - those are the two in my town/scum lists that can possibly be moved in to the "not sure" category.

[InflatablePie]

Anti, I would have no trouble voting for Doc (or Zang), but for right now, I believe that the lurker can wait.

...

I'm still going "wat" at this:

The fact that we were pulled out of RVS so quickly is also detrimental to the town

[InflatablePie]

...I know.

Main Entry: 1det·ri·men·tal
Pronunciation: \ˌde-trə-ˈmen-təl\
Function: adjective
Date: 1590

: obviously harmful : damaging <the detrimental effects of pollution>


Saying "getting out of RVS so quickly is detrimental to the town" implies that getting out of RVS quickly is a very bad thing.

Unless you're just agreeing with me, in which case I read your post in a different tone so ignore this.

[InflatablePie]

I never said with certainty that Brandi and FG were scumbuddies.

Fake god and Brandi are on the same scum team.

FakeGod took his teammate's place on the wagon when it was no longer benificial for them to have her on it. They are both acting scummy as well.

Ok yes Brandi is bad. FakeGod is officially worse. I am liking my scum buddies theory.

Suffice it to say that I really wish I had two votes so I could vote Brandi and FakeGod. I will stick with Brandi for now but if someone pushes towards the tipping point I wont hesitate to tip that balance.

Ok it was based around the timing of FakeGod's post. It came just after Brandi unvoted.
I'm not saying I'm right just that it makes alot of sense.
Add to that they were both acting scummy independantly as well and you have a bit of a fishy looking situation.

^Really, because you seem pretty sure in these posts...

Now to my comments on RVS. RVS is where non serious pressure starts to build up. Random wagons are among the best devices that can be used by town and we never got the chance to go through that phase. Brandi went a bit haywire on Parama and we were thrust out without having that slow pressure to get us going.

See, I thought that wagons that are fueled by logic and good reasoning would be better than a random wagon. I really don't get how staying in the RVS is any good. One good reason is because scum (and town alike, sometimes) can just dismiss a vote or something as "oh, this was RVS" or similar and try to get away with it. Scum can be more "free" in RVS because of this - the quicker we get out of RVS, the more discussion gets going and the more likely we are to find scum with bad/flimsy reasoning and lynch them.

Concerning Zang, I have not played with him in any past games, so I wouldn't know anything about how he plays.

[InflatablePie]

That was where my suspicions were and now they aren't

...right after I start getting on your case about how you went about that and how scummy it made you look in my eyes.

k

And how serious are you about the "we should lynch Zang because he's a good scum" comment? Because if that's your only reasoning, that's just silly.

[InflatablePie]

Oh hey, I can post again.

Just want to point out one quick thing. Look how quickly FakeGod jumped onto the case against Esp and sided with Pie. I know it seems a bit obvious, but he is new (right?), and new scum, from what I've seen, tend to do this. They take sides with their more experienced scum buddies and jump onto any little case presented against someone.

In my experience, newb scum usually try their best not to vote for their buddies. This, I know for sure. About your theory, depending on whether scum are allowed to talk pre-D1 or not (also depending on playstyles and experience and what-have-you), usually determines if newbscum vote with their buddies or avoid doing so. Not like this really matters since I am town and I believe FG is town for the time being.

Quite frankly, the case against Esp that Pie just brought up was simply due to wording. Yes, Esp did downplay his aggression a bit, but people can change their minds. Now, I'm not by any means defending Esp, he's got a few bleeps on my scumdar, but what's being discussed right now is ridiculous.

There's a difference between changing your mind, and after people start suspecting you, you do a complete 180 on your views and start to backtrack.

I'm liking my Fake-Pie scum team more and more, if not only for Fake giving Pie away. If Fake flips scum Pie has some explaining to do.

Yes, I realize that if I'm wrong and FG is scum, then I'll be a prime lynch target, most likely. I do have some doubt about FG, but I'm going with my gut for now.

Lastly thing: lol@lynching someone who could be good scum.

Agreed.

FoS: Anti

- newbie or not, a townie is a townie. You think someone is town, you don't vote them. You vote people who you think are scum. That's how this works.

Also, FG, i think you should extraordinarily helpful if not any other time, now. If you are town, it will do us nothing but good.

Uh... what?

[InflatablePie]

broom, I like that vote. If this Pokemon here wasn't backtracking, saying RVS is good and trying to speak for other people, I'd be cool with an Anti-lynch (not to be confused with No Lynch)

Speaking of which, I'm interested: what are your thoughts on Espeonage so far, broom?

[InflatablePie]

No, Fugi.

Espeon

age

[InflatablePie]

Fugi, when you put it like that... I can see where you're coming from. You make a very convincing case. I still want Espeon dead (especially after seeing the post that Fate caught that I forgot about), but I think you've convinced me that a FG lynch may not be a bad alternative...

The only other comment I have is that throwing suspicion on people that attack you is a newb tell, IMO. I've seen both newb scum and newb town both do this.

However, the fact that FG isn't offering any real suspicions (that I've seen) and just defends himself with some minor AtE and deflection is starting to piss me off a bit, because he's not helping the town at all by doing this. I'm actually starting to reconsider my stance on FG.

FakeGod, I want your top suspects with reasoning to support your suspicions, ASAP.

[InflatablePie]

My Espe vote isn't moving until he responds, maybe not even then if his responses suck. But srsly... FG, Espe, Zang, all need to die.

I can agree with this. Any of these lynches would be okay. But Espe really needs to get in here and start talking.

The FG/Fugi thing is just confusing me. @_@

[InflatablePie]

As far as I can tell, no on has presented a compelling case on Esp.

Hi.

The only thing I've heard is about inconsistencies, and possibly backtracking. Inconsistencies =/= scum-tells. I mean, sometimes they do, but I'm not convinced the inconsistencies that Esp has been "caught" under are scum-tells.

Difference between inconsistencies and backtracking. When someone gets on another's case for doing something and they instantly change their mind afterwards, that is scummy for me. This is after he says the RVS is good for the town. Also, the thing about speaking for Fate PLUS Espeon said he'd wanted a Zang lynch earlier.

Being absent from posting is not a scum-tell either, which seems to have prompted a few votes on Esp.

I agree. However, more votes won't hurt since A) I think he's scum anyways and B) more pressure in case he is actually lurking.

I suppose "likely town" is a bit of an exaggeration, but with someone like FG playing, I know who I prefer the lynch on.

What would you do if FG flipped town and Espeon flipped scum?

Too lazy to quote, cut, paste, delete, paste, etc.

[InflatablePie]

Well, FG or Espeon can go today, then. The other tomorrow, maybe, depending on the flip, NK etc. etc.

FG, I called Espeon out about his chainsaw-like attitude regarding you/Brandi. You then mentioned his inconsistency, but as I built a case on other points, you began to latch on to a lot of what I've said.

Newbie town might actually be newbie scum after all.

HoS: FakeGod

- I'd vote for you now, but I believe Espeon needs pressure until he starts explaining himself.

It's been over three days since his last post apparently, so

Mods: Prod Espeonage?

(thanks).


How about for now, Fugi jumps on the Espeon wagon and in return I'll fully support the FG lynch once this scum's taken care of. Sound good to you, Fuji?

[InflatablePie]

Also, quick thought/theory: when Espeon flips scum, it's either Brandi/Fugitive or FakeGod for other scum.

If he somehow flips town, I'd say FG is still a possibility. And I'd want to look at DocPotter as well.

[InflatablePie]

No, you said you were speaking for Fate. And said you wouldn't advocate a Zang lynch - "that was Fate's ideal". And now you're saying you were agreeing with Fate?

... I like my vote.

[InflatablePie]

ninja'd, that post was @Espeonage

[InflatablePie]

I never said who i was speaking for I just stated the reason I saw. I did say that I agreed with Fate on that point and i ended up providing my explaination.

233:

Zang is ALWAYS acceptable D1 lynch material. Doesn't make him any more likely scum though...

From my small experience with Zang. I agree.

You agree that he is acceptable D1 lynch material.

236:

Yo fate, get your ass here and tell me why zang is usually a good lynch d1.

Anti asks Fate a question.

237:

Because Zang is a very good scum.

You answer it, for Fate.

242:

I never said I was advocating a Zang lynch. I was merely giving an explaination to Anti. That is Fate's ideal. Not mine.

You say you don't want a Zang lynch and you tell us what Fate was thinking, rather than letting Fate answer the question.

So you're hinting that you think Zang is scum, but at the same time saying you don't want him lynched. I don't like that. It looks like you're trying to be on both sides here, so you can back up either side later on.

I don't mind your vote on DP, but it's not making you look better.

[InflatablePie]

There's a Penis of Suspicion.

[InflatablePie]

No i am not hinting that Zang is scum i was making comment o n Meta.
And yes I provided my reasoning. Mine. Do you see Fate's name onm that post? No you see mine. He wanted an explaination so I gave mine. I didn't say i was providing the answer Fate was going to give. I gave the answer I thought for the interim. I didn't expect fate to end up not even answering in the end.

You're making my head hurt trying to explain things.

Person A asks Person B if they like Fritos, Tab and Mountain Dew.
Person C replies immediately, "Yes."

It's similar to that in the context it was in.

So, you don't think that Zang is scum?

---

Pie. Why is Espeon's inconsistency over the Fate/Zang thing ground for a lynch, in your eyes? Even if he were to admit his inconsistency.

He said one thing and is now trying to change what he said or meant. If you look in the context this situation was in, it appeared very much like Espeon was speaking for Fate. Also this.

[InflatablePie]

No no, Pie. Okay, why does the fact that Espeon speaking for fate mean that he's scum? The thing you linked is Fate saying basically what you said. I can pose this to him too. Why does it make him scum to contradict himself?

I've generally found that people speaking for others tends to be an action taken by scum. It's similar to heavily defending another player or something of the sort.

Contradictions and backtracking is scum-like because scum have more motivation to do so than town. Town augment their arguments, while scum and anti-town are more likely to contradict themselves. It's one of Mastin's Insane Tells (wiki it) and I've found it to be generally true.

[InflatablePie]

No i don't think Zang is scum.

Okay. Would you support a Zang lynch, then?

[InflatablePie]

Speaking of Insane Tells, this whole life wager thing is stupid, IMO.

Interested to see what happens if FG flips town though...

[InflatablePie]

It's one of Mastin's Insane Tells (wiki it) and I've found it to be generally true.

You realize they're called "insane" tells because most people regard them as worthless.

I know. It says it at the top of the article.

But 2, 2.5 and 3 are usually true, IMO. 5 is true about... 60%(?) of the time, and 5.5 is worthless half the time anyways.

1 is the only real "insane" one that I've seen.

Link for lazy peoples.
[/url]

[InflatablePie]

No i don't think Zang is scum.

Okay. Would you support a Zang lynch, then?

Currently, No.

So, you've changed your mind on the policy lynch idea you posed earlier?

[InflatablePie]

Shh, Fugi. It's bad enough I had to bring up the tell - don't ruin my plan.

[InflatablePie]

When did I say I wanted a policy lynch? I said that it could potentialy be a good idea but I wouldn't follow that while there are people who actually have done scummy things.

ISO 14/Post 212:

Zang isn't a noob. I would probably policy lynch him on the fact that his only tell while scum that I saw was my gut feeling.

[InflatablePie]

To clear something up, since someone seems to ask every game:

ISO means to look at in isolation, IIRC.

Click the 'Display posts from previous [All Posts] by

[All Users

[Oldest First] box at the bottom of the page to scroll through everyone who has posted in the topic so far. You can view just their posts. ex. - Espeon's ISO 14 is his 14th (actually 15th) post in the thread.

[InflatablePie]

You HAVE voted for Zang. Your first post:

OMGUS

Vote: Zang

Other than the posts I brought up in my arguments against you (policy lynching, Zang being a good scum), I don't think you've mentioned Zang much.

Calm down, Esp. Maybe hum a little bit of "I Feel Pretty"?

[InflatablePie]

Also, if you could list your suspicions at the moment, I'd enjoy that.

[InflatablePie]

And Fugi puts Espeon at L-1, I believe.

FG may be starting to seem more townie with the gamble idea, but it doesn't affect my view of Fugi positively or negatively, for reasons that I'll disclose at a later time.

[InflatablePie]

Is that a serious claim, Espeon?

[InflatablePie]

Unvote

Not sure if I buy it, but I don't think lynching a doc claim right now is the best idea anyways.

[InflatablePie]

@Fugi: Weak doctors, IIRC, die when they protect mafia roles. So they can double as either a protection or investigative role.

[InflatablePie]

Even if Espeon IS left alive another night, that's pure WIFOM. We're not lynching the doc claim today regardless.

FoS: broom

- that plus the attitude of your posts is giving me weird vibes.

Vote: FakeGod

Let's go with my other option.


DocPotter. Do you have any suspicions? Any comments on Espeon's claim? Any game content at all?

[InflatablePie]

You say you don't want a Zang lynch and you tell us what Fate was thinking, rather than letting Fate answer the question. 

So you're hinting that you think Zang is scum, but at the same time saying you don't want him lynched. I don't like that. It looks like you're trying to be on both sides here, so you can back up either side later on. 

I don't mind your vote on DP, but it's not making you look better.

I think you overreacting. All esp was doing was explaining why he agreed with fate. I don't know how you can get that he thinks I'm scum from that.
Have you seen him say I was scum anywhere?

Aside from the comments on policy lynching and you "being a good scum", he hasn't mentioned you I don't think. But that's why I said hinting and not saying. He's said he wouldn't mind your lynch (or would possibly policy lynch you) and has said that you're good scum player. Sounded like he was hinting or at least setting something up for a reason to vote you later. That's what it seemed like to me.

You HAVE voted for Zang. Your first post:

OMGUS

Vote: Zang

Other than the posts I brought up in my arguments against you (policy lynching, Zang being a good scum), I don't think you've mentioned Zang much.

Calm down, Esp. Maybe hum a little bit of "I Feel Pretty"?

That vote was in RVS, it shouldn't count toward if esp has voted for me.

Am I taking it as a serious vote? No. Does it still count as a vote? Yes.

[InflatablePie]

*looks up*



*sigh*

Be back in a few hours.

[InflatablePie]

@"pointless question" - Because I wanted to see his response. Something like that. Yeah, in hindsight, I'm an idiot.
@"evil plot" - It's not an evil plot. It's a plan. You'll see, in due time - if things play out like I expect them to. Which they probably won't. I'll explain when the time is right.

Most of your arguments seem solid for now, but I admit I kind of skimmed through after a bit. I don't feel like taking that whole wall apart right now.

Personally, I have a neutral read on Fugi moreso than a scumread. I haven't seen Fugi make himself scummy on purpose before (iirc), but that doesn't tell me anything either. I'm okay with broom/Zang lynches at the moment, too.

The only thing I find weird is that you were kind of active towards the beginning, Parama, but kind of dissapeared for a bit. I was gonna bring this up, but then you posted. I understand real life gets in the way, but this seems a bit odd so I'm noting it here. Glad to see you at least caught up on providing content.

[InflatablePie]

People need to start suspecting me more or I'll be NKd at this rate.

If broom flips scum then Fate was just bussing.

Happy, Fate?

[InflatablePie]

WE ARE NOT STARTING THIS ALL-CAPS THING AGAIN.

[InflatablePie]

In all honesty Fate, I don't know what to make of you. You seem to give slightly vague answers or responses with your votes. Most of them being semi-jokes like saying you're buddying with someone.

Aside from quoting Espeon (your ISO 12), I haven't seen you make an actual "case" on anyone you've voted for. And your only other serious post seems to be concerning Esp claiming Weak Doc.

Then again, your playstyle is reminding me a bit of the last game I was in that you were in (were we alive at the same time? Don't remember.). Maybe that's why I haven't thought of you as scum yet.

[InflatablePie]

were we alive at the same time? Don't remember.

Unless it was a night start game, yes we were alive at the same time at one point.

Being that I replaced in, it's entirely possible we weren't. >_>

And I like Blueberry or Cherry better, myself.

[InflatablePie]

Pie, I don't believe this game has had any replacements. Unless you're talking about a different game...

Yep.

Haven't tried Key Lime, Cheesecake is okay depending on where it's made, Pumpkin is disgusting.

FoS Brandi for finding Cherry Pie "incredibly gross". >:(

[InflatablePie]

Smiley fail.

>:(

[InflatablePie]

Somehow I forgot to do this. The switch is mostly due to Brandi's case on broom (436?) which I happen to agree with. Also because Fate told me to.

Unvote, Vote: broom

WAGON GO

That's L-1, I do believe.

[InflatablePie]

The hell does it matter?

[InflatablePie]

I may have less than usual or no internet access due to possibly having my modem moved to a different room. I'll try to post, but since I don't exactly have access to said room (belonging to my grandmother), it may be difficult. Feel free to replace me if I lose internet access and don't respond to the eventual prod. Of course, this situation may be fixed as quickly as tomorrow night.

Anyways,

FoS: Anti

for that attempted hammer.

Broom, if you're somehow town, you'll list suspicions besides the claimed doc, who we are NOT lynching today.

Parama, I am too tired to dig back through the thread to find your case, but I assure you I will comment on it ASAP. I think I remember it vaguely, but Brandi's case stuck out more for some reason. Comment/response will be most likely tomorrow morning, before I leave for work.


Tired as hell, going to sleep soon. Also, I completely forgot (like 6 times) to wish our mod (SC) a happy scumday. So, happy late scumday. <__<

[InflatablePie]

Parama: I didn't catch your case because apparently it was in that GIANT WALL OF TEXT. My apologies.

You and Brandi seem to have had near-similar points though, so it's basically the same thing: broomhead contradicted himself concerning Espeon, the claimed doc, who he also tried to push a lynch for. So meh.

[InflatablePie]

Scum death is always good.

Espeon targeting Zang is an easy fakeprotect idea, being that since Zang flipped scumblocker, it'd make sense. Plus the fact that Espeon wasn't NKed, but that's scum-WIFOM.

I'm not sure what to think here. Don't feel like lynching him today. If he's still alive tomorrow, then I think I know who I'm voting.

Vote: FakeGod

Navy is an okay lynch too, I suppose. I should do an ISO later on tonight or something.

[InflatablePie]

>I say Navy's a good lynch
>Navy calls me scum

Interesting.

[InflatablePie]

Which is why FakeGod is town, don't you see it nub?

I feel like I'm missing something major here. Explain?

[InflatablePie]

Before I begin, MS is being super slow right now. Hopefully I don't double post or anything.

*cracks knuckles*

Protip: Open this post and Navy's 590 at the same time for best results. Each number I list replies to the statement after a quote of mine.

1. See: my ISO 5. RVS ends at a different time for everyone. Besides that, I see no problem in building a wagon to gauge responses and the like, especially straight out of RVS and that was one of the reasons for my vote. Parama was not acting super-duper-pro-town either (imo), so why should I remove my vote?

2. Defensiveness can be because of newb scum or it can be a playstyle. Hence why I was not sure.

3. I asked Anti this because I was genuinely curious what information he was gaining. Nothing more.

4. The origin of my Parama vote was mostly RVS iirc. However, as Parama continued to post, I noticed things that I had found scummy. Would you rather me vote without telling you my reasons, Navy?

5. I thought the capital DOES implied "on the offchance that Parama does get lynched". I don't understand your other sentence here.

6. I don't recall you asking that question "right before" I did. Either way, I was also surprised that Zang didn't have any major comments on the game so far. Don't get your point here. About the scumhunting comment, I like to think I've been scumhunting. I have asked questions, posted my suspicions and placed my vote where I think it belongs. You have chosen to ignore most of these posts in your case on me, or in some cases, imply I am scum for asking questions.

7. Like I said, the way Espeon was calling out FG/Brandi as a scumteam seemed odd. Due to my suspicions on Parama early on, I was able to notice this. I elaborated in ISO 15/Post 157. I wanted to see his reaction and who would agree with me and why, etc etc. Hence the phrase, "I want to see where this goes."

8a. Still don't get what "not being sure" has to do with anything...

8b. (@@157) What? Again, my main reason for the vote was because of his chainsaw-like defense of Parama. It kinda annoys me when people tell me what my reason is for voting, especially when it's wrong.

9. This also goes for most of your reasons: Just like every other townie in this game,

I only know that I am town

. You seem to expect me to know who is scum and who is town, which I don't. Hence why I'm unsure. I did, however, say who was leaning town and who was leaning scum in that post. I only had two main suspicions at the time, though: Esp and DocP.

10. Key words being "for right now". Espeon was acting way scummier (IMO) than DocP.

11. I don't understand this sentence.

12. I was adding my own two cents in to the "This is how Zang plays" argument, which I believe was a topic of minor discussion at the time.

13. Wrong-o. Lynching someone

just

because they're "a good scum" is just plain silly. Unless you're trying to say otherwise?

14. Most of the time, if a player devotes time to a wall-of-text with fairly decent points, they seem townier. Forgive me for hanging on to a newbish ideal. Note: yes, I understand that scum can post walls of text too.

15. Broom had a good point in the fact that Anti was voting someone he thought was town. That's a big no-no in my book. BTW, this was post 270, my stance on Anti was in 209. Opinions can change in 60 posts.

16. Don't understand what you're trying to say, so I will re-explain: FG was just defending himself and not helping the town in doing only that. That is anti-town and I consider anti-town actions being grounds for a lynch.

17. I gave suspects and reasoning in 209, to use one example. I understand this was later on, though and I am oh-so-sorry I didn't keep you up-to-date with a post detailing my current stance on every player. See, if I say I think someone is town and don't change my mind, then assume I still think they are town. Point is, if you ask me for my suspicions and I will have no trouble posting them.

18. ...

19. You're doing THAT again! (read: see 17)

20. ... Do what now? Don't understand what you're saying, so I'll take this chance to explain what I meant: I was talking later about Mastin's Insane Tells. People that take gambles and don't go back on them are usually town. The people that start them, likewise, are usually town. However, I do believe Fugi knows this (or did already, rather), so if he WAS scum, he'd accept a gamble anyways because he knows how the tell works. Sorry if that's confusing.

21. *sigh*

22. I've given my thoughts and suspicions where I have felt necessary. Don't say I'm not scumhunting and when I ask questions (my personal way of scumhunting, usually) call me scummy for doing so. It's hypocritical.

23. k

24. I had a null read on them for most of the game. They became suspicious over neutral. I vote for suspicious people. Don't know how you like to vote - maybe that's just my style. Broom still was trying to push for the claimed doc. Parama had some points on Zang that I agreed with. By the by, I had suspicions of Zang early on as well, which you will probably just blow off as "breadcrumbing suspicion" or something (like you sort-of said in point 7).

25. *sigh*

26. I'm not sure if Esp is alive due to being scum, roleblocked, or what-have-you. It's too WIFOM-y for me to make a completely confident stance on. I do know that if Espeon is really a doc, then it would be fairly stupid for scum to keep him alive for long, even for the WIFOM factor, especially with a Scumblocker flip. I decided to place my vote on someone who isn't too townie in my eyes.

tl;dr: Your case on me consists of nitpicking my wording, not being sure of other people's alignments, asking questions/posting suspicions yet somehow not scumhunting, and in some cases taking things out of context (or something similar to that).

tl;dr tl;dr: You're wrong.

---

I still don't see why FG is suddenly town, but whatever. I'm going to change my vote.

Unvote

Navy and Parama will hopefully remember a game off-site ("SHM1") in which I was scum and basically led the (mostly newbie) town around on a string for a bit. I told them what to look for, what to do and not to do - basically like an IC, but I was doing this in a manipulative way. Anyways, Fugitive's strategy of "act scummy to catch scum" seems awfully similar to the attitude I had in that game.

DocPotter's lurkiness and even my suspicion of him is something that I honestly forgot about, so I will just leave this here for the moment:

Vote: DocPotter

Brandi has gone under the spotlight, but like someone else said, I understand it is due to outside cicrumstances.

Kind of getting tired of Parama saying "Oh I'll respond to this later but-". He seems to say this a lot. Don't feel like checking at the moment - going through that wall kinda drained my brain a bit.

Finally, inb4 Navy comes in and says I'm scummy for jumping off the FG wagon now or what-have-you.

Going to bed now.

[InflatablePie]

If anyone wants to scroll up to my wall and look at the part under the three dashes (---), that's actual content not pertaining to Navy.

Navy, how sure are you that Pie is scum? Answer can be in the form of Yes/No, or percentages.

"How sure are you that Pie is scum?"
"Yes."

-----

- To explain what I meant about DocP (see: after-wall), I meant that he's been lurking so much compared to the other players, I even managed to forget he was in the game for a bit. I got distracted by Broom, FG/Fugi, and Espeon and completely forgot about Doc. That is sort of why I am voting him now (see below). I feel like I worded it weird due to me being tired.

- I don't know if I'd get anything out of a quick ISO of DocP, but I know I don't get a great vibe from his posts, especially after that quick L-1 of FG earlier today. And after overlooking a game offsite where most of the scum lurked the entire way, I'm kind of inclined to support a Lynch All Lurkers policy at the moment.

- Despite the stuff I said in my tl;dr, at least Navy is TRYING to scumhunt, even if he's completely wrong. However, his BW vote on broom was a bit sketchy, hence why I said he was a good lynch for today as well.

- I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that because of how fast FG got to L-1, that makes him for-sure town now? No one answered me AFAIK and I'm kind of confused. Eh, I still suspect him a bit, but we have bigger fish to fry, I suppose.

[InflatablePie]

The only point I feel like repeating is that I was not defending Zang. Lynching someone because they play well as scum is just silly and you know it. I couldn't care less who it was directed as.

"Not sure" usually means a neutral read. I kind of get where you're coming from, but I assure you that my neutral/leaning reads are due to me not being able to find a lot of tells in this game.

If you want my suspicions now, by the way:

~v Town v~

Myself (herp a derp)

Brandi (don't recall anything scummy from her in particular, despite her lack of access due to outside circumstances)

Fate (lack of a good read = Fate is town, in my experience. lolmeta)
Espeon (claim is believable for now; depends on what happens in the days to come, though)


Parama (leaning scum - this is mostly gut at the moment, nothing extremely concrete to go on)
FakeGod (may be appearing more town today, but his actions D1 still bug me)

Fugitive (acting scummy to catch scum? don't like this play)
NavyCherub (sketchy vote on the broomhead lynch)

DocPotter (reasons include lurking, bandwagoning, and my trusty Piegut(tm))

~^ Scum ^~

DocP is my only major suspicion right this moment. My next two choices for now (if DP isn't scum) are Navy/Fugi, then FG or Parama. The closer to the top, the more townie/less scummy said person is.

---

I can see a DocP/Fugi team, possibly. Eh, I'll look into it when I get the chance.

@Espeon: Why the change?

Navy, how sure are you that Pie is scum?

Yes.

"How sure are you that Pie is scum?"
"Yes."

=/

[InflatablePie]

Speak of the devil.

[InflatablePie]

What the fuck at 637-643.

Why is Fugi scum again?

[InflatablePie]

Navy, I don't like your theory because you're wrong.

Fate needs to stop dicking around.

DocP needs to get more votes.

684 reminds me of early/mid D1, for some reason...

[InflatablePie]

Speed of wagons matters very little anyway.

I thought this was the "hidden reasoning" behind FG being town now.

At least, that's what I inferred because no one answered my question.

[InflatablePie]

Ain't no party like a DocPotter party 'cause a DocPotter party don't stop

[InflatablePie]

I like how once people begin to move from Parama to DP, DP goes right back on Parama.

There's something funny about that, but I can't find the words.

[InflatablePie]

Don't hammer before claim. etc... etc...

Vote: DocPotter

er...

[InflatablePie]

Oh, nevermind that then.

Fugi, I still think DP is scum of course, but let's use your own advice here, hm?

[InflatablePie]

Tsk tsk.

Well, he *did* post earlier even though he was at L-1... but methinks we might want to wait.

I wanna hear what he comes up with.

[InflatablePie]

You know what's funnier than DP flailing? Navy coming out of nowhere with a willingness to lynch him.

Bad enough you hastily built a flimsy case on me and abandoned it about as quickly, but now this? You did something similar with the broomhead lynch - just jumped right on out of nowhere.

[InflatablePie]

But yes, Navy, we're waiting for a claim.

At least, I am, personally.

[InflatablePie]

- Point taken.
- Seemed that way. Come out of nowhere with a case that relied on wording and taking things out of context. Just like you came out of nowhere with a DP suspicion. And a broomhead vote.
- How do I word this. You were certain I was scum when you posted that wall, right? Now you've switched off of me to Parama and were willing to switch to DP. If you really thought I was scum for sure, you'd be pushing for me right now instead of throwing your vote on whoever seems to be the wagon at the time.
- Totally.

Not sure if I buy the tracker claim. A NV on Espeon doesn't say much since he claimed roleblocked. Someone will probably mention that DP is "provable", but with two claimed PRs and one down, it wouldn't be too hard to fake a no visit report on someone (townie or scumbuddy), tbh.

All I have to say is, I think there's a low chance that DocP AND Espeon are both scum. It's most likely one or the other.

I'm staying on DocP for now, but I'll try and give more insight after I get off of work.

[InflatablePie]

Unvote

because that's not gonna happen apparently.

quick skim before replacing vote

[InflatablePie]

So with three claims today, I guess no one would be up for a Navy lynch, huh?

Vote: Fugitive

That attempted hammer before DocP's claim does not sit right with me at all.

[InflatablePie]

so we have 2 'L-1's, with Esp holding the hammer.
Irony is that he was the first one in the game to be L-1ed and claimed under pressure. XD

What's funnier is that I was the one that started pressuring him and now I hand him the hammer.

Reason being - both PRs can't be scum and compared to DocP, well, I'd have to side with Espeon being town. Even if Doc IS scum, Espeon is semi-cleared now, anyways.

If Espeon is scum and just didn't send in the kill, then he's one lucky bastard right now, I guess.

[InflatablePie]

Ignore the odd capitalized "IS" there. I meant to put it on the sentence below. Derp

[InflatablePie]

Welcome, Slaxx.

So, we have DocP town and Brandi town. Unless this is some sort of scumgambit and DocP is actually scum. Doubtful though - neither one of them should be lynched right now.

This leaves myself, FakeGod, Parama, Fate/Slaxx and Navy. I'm going to side with FG being town at the moment. So there's three left...

Since Fugi flipped town, I believe that we should pursue the other lynch candidate from yesterday. As such, I'll leave this here:

Vote: Parama

I'll build my case when I get the chance to.

[InflatablePie]

EBWOP: A Navy lynch is fine, too.

[InflatablePie]

Parama, my lynch theory is not the sole basis for my vote on you. But it does help a bit.

Also, I am not seeing Brandiscum either, but I suppose she isn't 100% clear via tracker report if we have more than one scum left.

[InflatablePie]

Nah, I'm only up for a Parama lynch today, or Navy if it gains traction.

My case is coming soon.

[InflatablePie]

Baww.

ISO 109, 110, 111, 114. Parama goes from Doc to Fugi to Doc to Fugi. The first vote isn't so bad. The second comes after DP's claim, I believe. The next two are what are pinging my scumdar - he goes from DocP to Fugi, the other lynch candidate for the day. To me, it looks like scum trying to stay off of the other main wagon, but then changes his mind when he learns that DocP won't be lynched and votes Fugi to save his own skin.

ISO 95 is where he tries throwing suspicion on Espeon (post-claim). The way it's done looks like scum casually mentioning this so they can quote it later. Don't see much mention of Espeon before this in what I ISO'd, either - it kinda came out of nowhere.

He mentions often (ISOs 94, 105) that there's "no case on him". This general attitude reminds me one of my first games offsite where I said this to one of my attackers when I was scum. Just something to note.

Parama says in 88 that he'd comment on Navy's wall eventually, but later says (102) he hasn't been paying much attention to it. On this note, no one has responded to my defense of it, not even Navy.

In 78, Parama notices the speed of the D2 wagon on FG, advising town not to quicklynch, but leaves his vote. At this point, FG is at L-1. This irks me.

I don't feel like going too far back into D1/D2 at the moment, but I'll take a look if I have time.

[InflatablePie]

The whole Fugi thing concerns the way things happened. I don't give a damn if you had a case on him, you seemed to be voting for him just to save your own ass.

Again, throwing suspicion on the claimed doc so you could go back and have a reason for voting later, if a wagon built on him.

I have a case on you.

So now that you're suspicious of me, wouldn't it make sense to take a look at the one person that tried building a case on me? Read my defense while you're at it.

A townie lynch is not always a good lynch. Votals weren't up, I don't think - someone could have hammered him by mistake and it's possible we would have lynched two townies as a result. Unvoting shortly after doesn't mean a thing to me.

I'd rather have some of my case up then spend so much time looking back for more evidence.

I'd like FG to explain what he means by in his recent post, btw.

[InflatablePie]

Then you're getting the wrong impression from my post.

Actually, I think I'm exactly right and you know it.

I had no reason to suspect Espe. I just though he was being stupid.

I wish Espe would stop being so scummy.

I mean really, bandwagon to L-1? The target is fine but the vote is not.

You said SCUMMY. Not stupid. Backtracking?

I might go do that, except I have my own reason for suspecting you and am not interested in others' opinions.

Well, you already said here that Navy made a lot of good points. So in a sense, you did agree with him. Now, all of a sudden, you don't care what he has to say?

I don't think anyone in their right minds would have voted FG after the pile of votes that had just been tossed on him.

You don't know that for sure.

Fair enough, but then you're not getting the full story, so your evidence can easily be wrong. And it is.

I'll look for other things that support my current case eventually. I don't think I am wrong.


@Navy: I had more points than that. I already addressed that part - I was unsure because I don't know anyone else's alignment. I had some solid reads and some leanings, though.

[InflatablePie]

Scummy actions from an all but confirmed town = stupid

Scummy actions from anyone not confirmed = scummy

You're backtracking here.

I skimmed the points but didn't comment on them. I never said I didn't agree with them. I just said that I'd rather use my own reasons and care less about others. Don't misrep me.

Go read Navy's wall and point out his "good points", please.

Off to do some more ISO now.

[InflatablePie]

Oh, and Parama, mind giving some insight as to your stances on the players left?

[InflatablePie]

Found a few links to Zang, from D1.

ISO 24 - he builds a case on Zang, yet leaves his vote on FG for being "obvscum". Coincidentally, FG happened to be a leading choice for the wagons that day.

ISO 36 - read the bottom of this (last two quotes). He's fairly obviously defending Zang. Zang flipped scum. Two posts later, he throws some suspicion on him for good measure.

49 - casting some suspicion on him for good measure, then throws in who he's voting (Espeon) and FG (the easiest person to FoS in this game at this point, imo) into his suspicions list to hide it.

ISO 51 - throws a lot of suspicion on Zang, but goes with broomhead instead. Didn't want to bus your partner so early on, Parama?

[InflatablePie]

My point is, Parama has a habit of casting suspicion on his scumbuddies, but is not willing to bus unless absolutely necessary. Yay for meta.

At the very least, if no one else sees why him casting suspicion on Zang (but not voting him) many times is odd, look at ISO 36.

[InflatablePie]

Nice countervote, Parama.

[InflatablePie]

I can fetch my defenses to those points, or you can find them yourself.

If by "you're doing it again", you mean me not giving my suspicions, I already listed mine in my first post of the day. Coincidentally, we have the same town reads. Slaxx is neutral, Navy is scum.

[InflatablePie]

1. So, coincidentally, the person who was an easy wagon was more suspicious for you?

2. You were still defending Zang in that post.

4. You voted broom over Zang because Zang was your buddy and you didn't feel like bussing him.

As I thought, then? I already gave my suspicions and asked for yours. So quoting that was useless.

Theory/Question to all: Why would Zang have been sent, as the roleblocker, to submit the kill on Anti?

[InflatablePie]

If Pie is town Parama might be mafia, but Pie is mafia so it doesn't matter.

How about, I am town and Parama is mafia. Let's go with that.

At the very least, if this town fails and actually lynches me today, I expect Parama to be lynched tomorrow.

[InflatablePie]

Slaxx, would you mind elaborating on this "under the radar thing" and how I'm doing it?

@Furry

: Not trying to be rude or anything, but it's just been irking me... my username doesn't have an "e" in it...

~Fixed. Spelling is not my strong point.

[InflatablePie]

EBWOP: Well, actually, it has two... I meant there's only one "e" in "Inflatable". I'm tired... >_<

[InflatablePie]

2. You were still defending Zang in that post.

It was between me and Anti, Zang was the subject yes but I didn't do anything that you can really call a "defense".

Anti made a comment accusing Zang of being scum and saying Brandi should be looked at if Zang flips scum. Your reply:
"Lol you just pulled that accusation out of thin air didn't you. "

Anti says he wants to see Zang's flip, you reply:
"So you're interested in his flip but in this same line you don't feel it necessary to say why you find him scummy?
*headdesk* "

That looks like defending to me.

Theory/Question to all: Why would Zang have been sent, as the roleblocker, to submit the kill on Anti?

2 theories - there are only 2 mafia and the other is GF or something more useful than roleblocker, or Zang was going to get lynched anyways the next day anyways (I was going to do this but then he went and died).

I still don't get it though. No smart mafia would risk their roleblocker - most of the time, it's their most useful scumpower, even moreso than a Godfather at times. Maybe I'm looking too much into this.

[InflatablePie]

One of Navy's quotes that you said was a good point and you "especially agree with":

And how serious are you about the "we should lynch Zang because he's a good scum" comment? Because if that's your only reasoning, that's just silly.

Soft-defending scumZang.

Explain to me how this is defending Zang, yet what YOU said wasn't defending Zang.

Because I'm laughing over here.

[InflatablePie]

Parama, I defended that point saying that lynching someone because they are good at scum is silly. It didn't have anything to do with Zang. Even you have to admit that's a silly reason for a serious vote.

You defended your point saying that it didn't have anything to do with Zang/Anti either, that you were just pointing out the argument.

Sound familiar? But you agreed that Navy made a good point, even though both of us are using similar reasoning.

Can I point out to everyone that Navy and Parama both said I was scum after I either voted them or said they were good lynches? Does no one else notice this or does no one care?

Brandi, FG is town due to the quick wagon on him D2. Plus, I'm just not seeing him as scum. More newbtown-y.

[InflatablePie]

Why do you think I'm scum, again? I'm "leaving myself open to any lynch"?

You do realize I only want a lynch of Navy/you today... and you want what, a lynch of me or Slaxx iirc? That's the same number of people.

That's the only original thing I've seen from you, since you said that while you agree with some of Navy's points, you liked your theory better.

Your "case" is laughable. At least Navy tried, even though he's still wrong.

[InflatablePie]

*rolls eyes*

[InflatablePie]

This game's died off in just 4 RL days.

I've already made my case on Parama, he's made some sort of "case" on me. People need to choose sides for today.

[InflatablePie]

I don't like the people who are just sitting around while others bicker. Not good.

I agree with this.

Parama, stop telling the mod how to do his job.

That's just like...your opinion, and doesn't make me scum.

I'd have no trouble with Navy's lynch, Brandi (I believe I explained myself earlier?), but I still think I'm on to something with Parama.

Can I ask why you think I'm wrong/don't see Paramascum right now?

[InflatablePie]

You're wrong about me being scum, Slax, but that IS a nice catch (between 55/64).

This is probably stupid to say in response because of your theory, but I still think FG is newbtown. =/

[InflatablePie]

I just get the general newb-tell gut feelings. And some things like the overdefensiveness, lack of good scumhunting, etc, I used to do as newbtown.

You provide sound reasoning, I just disagree due to my gut.

[InflatablePie]

This is probably stupid to say in response because of your theory, but I still think FG is newbtown. =/

Why would you say it if you knew it would work against you, unless you're deliberately using situations like this to make yourself appear more town?

You're so dead set that I'm scum. It never occurs to you that I'm town that just thinks FG is newbtown and doesn't want him lynched.

I could switch to Navy, as long as we agree that Parama goes tomorrow.

I'd rather have Slaxx join the Paramawagon since FG won't be lynched today, but I have a feeling he won't go for it.

[InflatablePie]

Wait InflatablePie. You said

I could switch to Navy, as long as we agree that Parama goes tomorrow.

To me this makes you seem like you just want to lynch whoever you can get a wagon on. Surely Parama's flip would help determine the next lynch? Why so deadset on these two?

Fate's townmeta was showing for most of the game, so I don't see you being scum.

If Parama flips town by some act of god, Navy has to be scum. I don't see FG or Brandi being scum right now. DocP is a tracker.

If Parama slips scum like I expect him to, I still have heavy suspicions of Navy, so I want him lynched next.

If one flips scum and one town, I'll have some thinking to do.

[InflatablePie]

Explain?

And this game feels like it's starting to slow down

horribly

. Maybe that's just me.

[InflatablePie]

So, Brandi and DocP aren't confirmed town. Nice to know. They're still not going to be lynched today.

Navy, that's fence sitting because of the way you said "it's better to at least trust reports

a little, I think

". You sound completely unsure. So why even post that?

[InflatablePie]

Navy wagon's okay, but Parama is better.

Looks like no one's gonna budge at this point, though.

[InflatablePie]

FakeGod, do you only suspect me due to some process of elimination? Or are there other reasons behind it? Because that's what I'm getting from your posts and you haven't said why you think Brandi/Navy are town unless I missed something.

Brandi could be cleared by tracker report, but besides that (IMO) she hasn't done anything scummy that I've seen, so I can understand that part. How you have a town read on Navy is beyond me.

[InflatablePie]

Wow, I got a sense of deja vu from that Navy/Brandi exchange.

Don't like how Parama said he'd take full blame for both lynches and now he's only responsible in part. But no one cares because Parama is soooo town. /sarcasm

@FG: So, process of elimination brings you to Parama (which I agree with) and myself. But you don't have a town read on Navy? I'm confused by what you're trying to say.


The problem I realized just now with my theory, is that if one of Parama/Navy is scum, the other is town. They're both on my wagon - they wouldn't risk doing this as a scumteam.

So. Since I'm not getting any backing, except from FG, on my Paramawagon...

Unvote, Vote: Navy

. Navy's been bandwagoning all game, plus his case on me was full of taking things out of context and attacking me for not being sure. Upon looking back, I think he's the better lynch for today after all.


Now, to give everyone a brief look in to my crazy thoughts, here's my thoughts on "if x flips scum" where I attempt to find x's buddy.

If Navy flips scum, which I still think he will, I'll accept that I was wrong and Parama is town. So, this would mean FG is avoiding the Navywagon for this reason OR Slaxx is leaving a vote on FG while his buddy attacks him. (note: only applies if Navy flips scum). If Navy somehow flips town, Parama is 105% scum, FMPOV. In this case, either FG is bussing or Slaxx is providing a Chainsaw Defense.

I'm pretty sure there's 3 scum since that's the standard. We can all agree on that (if we didn't already), I assume? I'm leaving out DocP/Brandi for obvious reasons and I still have not decided which of these situations would be more likely just yet. I'll determine that once we have a flip.

[InflatablePie]

If Navy flips town then I'm 105% sure you're scum and hopefully can convince others. I will do whatever it takes to lynch you, Parama, since this town isn't listening to me anyways.

If he flips scum, well, I'll admit I had a bad case and that I was wrong about you.

There's also a chance that you're both scum. It's minor, though.

If you've noticed, I've stopped arguing with you and questioning you compared to the start of today. Because, honestly, I'm beginning to doubt my read a bit.

Like I said earlier, no one's going to budge. SOMEONE has to switch for this day to move on and I'm willing to lynch my second highest scumread in order to get more information on you. Would I rather lynch you to get more info on my second highest read? Of course. I'm certain one of you is scum, but I won't know for sure which of you two it is until after we get a flip.

And cry WIFOM all you want, but if I was scum then why would I draw so much attention to myself by switching now, especially with two votes already on me as is?

[InflatablePie]

1) I'll say now that it's minor enough for me not to bother. If Navy flips scum, I will not push for your lynch. And the other way around, too. If both of you are scum, I'll eat a teabag (literal, not like... testicles) and post a video.


2) Yes, but by doing so I'm throwing myself in to the spotlight as the only one to switch recently. Because everyone's being kinda stubborn and going NO MY LYNCH IS BETTER. This day needs to move and I'm willing to help.

Not to mention that Navy is no longer the hot wagon, as both him and I have two votes, with FG/you having one each, IIRC.

[InflatablePie]

Everyone else is either V/LA, not reading up on games or still just not budging. I've already made my stances on players and even switched my wagon choice.

Why are you so sure Navy is town, Parama?

[InflatablePie]

Claim: Vivienne the Fox, Vanilla

Not like that'll change anyone's mind.

I did not contradict myself.

[InflatablePie]

>most scummiest

I slowly realized that my case on Parama may not be that great. I am doubting my read after looking things back over. I doubt that both Parama and Navy are scum. But I'm still not 100% sure which of them it is right now and I won't know until I see a flip.

I now believe Navy is the better wagon. Navy has been willing to go on every major wagon and his case on me involved taking things out of context and attacking me because I was "unsure".

My case on Parama consists of mainly scumlinks with Zang, which doesn't convince anyone. So maybe my logic is wrong and my gut is getting in the way or something. No one is willing to lynch him, so I figure that means maybe he's not that scummy after all. Maybe I was wrong.


tl;dr: I have a better case on Navy and should have been on him from the start of this day.

[InflatablePie]

My main case against Navy is that he was willing to join any bandwagon and was on most/all of them. If memory serves, he said he was willing to jump on a lynch (can't remember if it was broom or DocP right now) around Day... 1? His "case" against me was taking things out of context, using "you're scum so this is why this is scummy" logic and attacking me for not being sure.

I can build a more in-depth case by going into ISO if needed; kinda making a rushed post right now.

[InflatablePie]

*pops in*

*sees case on Navy with good points*

*doesn't see a lynch of Navy*

*pops out*

(Haven't been posting due to time and sleep issues, by the way, if anyone cares. Quick-post before work.)

[InflatablePie]

V/LA until Monday

due to work. It turns out I'm working three double shifts in a row, so I'll be mostly working or sleeping. Which means little/no time for mafia.

All I really have to say is, I don't care who hammers Navy, he needs to go.

[InflatablePie]

Fuck, I was wrong about Navy. Why did that lynch even go through? I said if one was scum the other was town. LISTEN TO ME NEXT TIME


FG, I already claimed. You don't remember?

Vivienne the Fox, VT.


Now, I'm inclined to believe it's FG because Parama, IIRC, said he'd rather have a lynch of me or Slaxx (I'll look for this in a bit), plus the fact that FG seemed reluctant to go on the Parama wagon - which is a better case IMO.

[InflatablePie]

See bottom of this for where he calls FG town.

Then later on, he switches FG to his scum reads. Maybe after Navy or myself was lynched, he would use this to bus last minute to save himself? Of course, scum throw in a lot of WIFOM so I'm not sure if I should be considering any of this.

I don't recall seeing FG on Parama's wagon for long though, despite saying he'd accept either lynch, which kinda bugs me. Not to mention if FG is scum, leaving me alive would make sense as I was one of his "prime targets". Back to being the devil's advocate, it would also make sense to kill Brandi regardless since she was very slightly cleared from a tracker report...

Really, really leaning towards FG, but my gut is telling me otherwise... but my gut also said Navy over Parama and I was wrong... gah.

I'm gonna sleep on this.

[InflatablePie]

Last post for the evening (most likely) - one thing to note is (was?) Brandi's scum read on Slaxx, as seen by the last page or two of her ISO'd posts.

I hate WIFOM, especially with NKs.

[InflatablePie]

From Parama's adamant support on lynching Pie, I'm going to guess Pie's town.

Here

What happened to this?

Something I noticed in addition to arguments about FG: if you scroll through the past few pages, Parama/FG were sure never to be on my wagon at the same time. The conversations between him and Parama seem to read as "casual banter" in a way, as well. And this post seems really odd.

I guess I have no other choice but to go with

Vote: FakeGod

Slaxx, if you're scum, then I'm going to feel really stupid... ._.

[InflatablePie]

And now I know Slaxx is town because he would have hammered by now if he was scum. Unless he's just being a dick </joking>.

Why on earth would FG care about what Parama had to say concerning the Navy wagon? It doesn't make any sense.

Grabbing some of the "causal banter" quotes from ISOs.

[InflatablePie]

Here is one. It seems like Parama's calmly talking to FG, not accusing him (that, he does in what I assume is a bussing attempt a few ISO'd posts back though he leaves his vote on me). And at the end is the suspicious unvote.

Scum always keep in mind who their partners are, and many of them try not to vote with them on wagons because that would be too obvious. I don't know if I said that correctly, but I hope you get what I mean.

This is how I figured out Parama and Navy could not BOTH be scum, and why FG's case on me (me and Parama both voting him) doesn't make sense at all.

This seems like Parama is lecturing FG. Posts like these don't sit well with me.

As for FG's side, look at him in ISO page 5, around the Parama quotebox and after. Parama's one of his suspects at this time, but he's talking so calmly to him. It seems off. Oh, and he wanted to leave the Navyhammer to one of his scumreads. That's not weird at all?

[InflatablePie]

Lastly, I want to stress the fact that he goes and places his vote on Navy yesterday [1] (despite not wanting to hammer or lynch him the day before? [2]*). He says I am town since Parama pushed so hard on me [3]. And today, he retracts THAT statement in order to vote me [4].

[2] -
here (actually this one says he's going to hammer Navy. o_O)
here
here
here
here

[InflatablePie]

Slaxx is not scum because he has not hammered. Similarly, this is process of elimination for me as well.

I voted you D2 because, IIRC, I had a newb read on you and was not sure if you were newbtown or scum (D2 was a while ago IRL, might be confusing this with another situation). I kept my vote the longest, for the record (iirc). Parama jumped extremely quickly off of you and I believe it's because he was bussing. It's possible that wagons grow quickly not because they are scum-driven, but because the person is scum(my).

Plus, and I know this is WIFOM, if Parama and I were both scum then why would we so obviously BW like that? Slaxx, you have to realize that this part does not make sense. See what I said earlier about the thought process of scum. And for the record, Parama said people should hold off on the FG posts until he got there, and was the third vote when it was five to lynch (in the next page). Makes sense that Parama would wait a bit before deciding to bus and IMO, his placement on the wagon supports a Parama/FG scumteam.

I don't read "damn" as a particularly angry choice of word. So it still seems "calm".

"but I didn't want him to know immediately that I suspect him the most" = "I had a scumread on you, I promise - this isn't me just trying to avoid the fact that I called you town earlier"

"Pie goes on to say that he's probably leaning toward me kindaish except that his gut's telling him otherwise, showing that he doesn't care who he lynches today, and that if there's a chance of me going for Slaax, then he probably would've flipped his opinion and voted you. This confirmed that he is scum in my mind, and I voted him in my next post."

I had some minor reasoning for why it was a slim possibility of Slaxx, but if you notice my case was on you. If you were to vote Slaxx, I would probably end up hammering you anyways. I have a habit of not being completely sure on hammers. See the last day of my newbie game, also a 3-way. See this post in particular.

[InflatablePie]

- Sure

- This is WIFOM, you know.

- I already explained this.

In addition, your second and third points contradict each other somewhat.

[InflatablePie]

Maybe contradiction was the wrong word, but it's the closest word that fits.

You note that it is dangerous to vote so quickly in three-way lylo. Then you try to use the fact that I did not vote right away as "evidence" that I'm scum?

Maybe, I dunno, I didn't vote because I was not completely sure? And I've already provided proof that I have a habit of being unsure in three-way situations?

[InflatablePie]

I only saw the post where he says "no more FG votes till he gets here", then voted him a little bit later...

[InflatablePie]

FG, all you're doing is trying to appeal to Slaxx with "trust" at this point. Trust you, trust Fate, etc.. And now you're pressuring him to vote.

Slaxx, also look at day 3. When Navy reached L-1 and stayed there for an extraordinary period of time, I, if I was scum, could have easily hammered him while claiming that Navy didn't lurk like this before, etc etc. Because I'm not scum and I wanted Parama/Pie dead, I threatened but refrained from doing so, while Parama was desperate to have me hammer Navy so that he has a reason to lynch me on day 4.

That's WIFOM. You didn't hammer because your buddy was on the wagon, plus it would have made you look extremely suspicious since you were opposing the lynch so heavily (almost like you knew he was town, if you get what I am implying).

[InflatablePie]

haha you guys are all absolutely

terrified

of making a mistake.

@Slaax: he's my neutral read too. I just don't see why you or Parama are so afraid of lynching a neutral read.

Pie, I had already made up my mind by the POE that Slaax was town and you were scum before day 5 began.

IF YOU THOUGHT I WAS SCUM ALL THIS TIME WHY WOULD YOU PUSH FOR A NEUTRAL READ

Not only this, but you were trying to pressure others into hammering him so you wouldn't get your hands dirty.

Which is why you didn't vote right away when the day 5 started

click

[InflatablePie]

Sorry for posting so much.

Not only that, but after I posted saying I was mostly suspicious of you, you voted me.

Just like Parama.

[InflatablePie]

@StrangerCoug: No offense, but what's the point of the "alive" spoilers if the current votecount is in the OP...? >_>

[InflatablePie]

I still don't like you pushing for a neutral read, regardless.

I'm not misrepping you, you kept saying you'd rather have a lynch of me or Parama TRUE, but you were also telling others to hammer Navy. Don't say you weren't.

I'm not asking him to "just trust me", I'm presenting a case and showing him the facts: you are scum.

[InflatablePie]

FG, you repeat yourself too often.

Your "voting patterns case" make no sense because scum make it a priority not to be caught on the same wagon as their partner. I've played many games offsite as scum. I know this. You can scream WIFOM all you want, but think about this - as town, if you see a huge wagon, you'd think "hey there must be scum on that". Scum know this is what townies think. So they more often than not try to separate amongst multiple people. Especially with a small group of scum (2 in this case since Zang died N1), being on the same wagon is suicide.

This explains why you didn't hold your Parama vote for long on D3 iirc, and why you and Parama never stayed on the same wagon that day either.

You said yourself your case on me is mostly Process of Elimination. At least I have other points to back up why I am town and you are scum, despite the fact that it is similar for me as well.

I want to reread you in ISO but it's almost 5 AM. I got only to about p2/3 in ISO because I'm tired. I know that you joked around a lot at the beginning and mostly concentrated on defending yourself - this is what got you to a high votecount at least twice this game. You weren't contributing, you were solely defending yourself. Not very pro-town.

[InflatablePie]

My sleep schedule is typically, 4-6AM going to sleep, then wake up at either 9AM, 12PM or 2-3PM depending if I have to work or not.

I think it's very possible for Parama to do something like that. Then again, I've played with him before and talk to him in an IRC channel often (Navy/Parama/Fugi/myself are all buddies from another site). So this only makes a lot of sense to me, I guess. You know that feeling when you know how someone's meta is, but you can't quite explain it to other players? Yeah.

Personally, I think Slaxx is talking about FG. I like to think that my cases on other players are good, especially when I know I'm right.

I mean, uh, I thought he was going to hammer the mod. <_<

[InflatablePie]

This (minus the FG/Pie scumteam theory of course) is a good case. This is also a good point.

Slaxx, may I ask your current thoughts/what is going through your mind? It gives us more stuff to talk/debate about in the meantime, at least.

[InflatablePie]

@Slaxx, 28 is sort of low in my eyes, but I understand why you'd be hesitant to hammer.

@FG, resorting to AtE now? Really?

[InflatablePie]

Because I switched to Navy?

Everyone was being stubborn and not budging. I didn't want to sit here until deadline and have there be a no lynch. I could not convince anyone to see what I was seeing in Parama, which consisted of a lot of meta and links to Zang. But I had actual proof, like voting patterns, for Navy (him being on every major bandwagon for instance). Turns out I was right the first time, though; I should have gone with my gut. But what use is a vote when all it creates is a standstill and the vote itself is being useless? Navy's lynch would, at the very least, give us a crucial piece of information: Parama's alignment. It was not a terrible alternative, although in hindsight Parama was still better. But I decided to throw myself into the spotlight in order to move this game along. Otherwise, we wouldn't be so close to catching scum right now.

Also, Slaxx, can I ask why you voted Navy (leading to his eventual lynch) at the start of Day instead of FG? Even after I mentioned why Parama/Navy couldn't both be scum (and Parama flipped scum)? It's the same reasoning that I'm using to prove I am town, whether it's WIFOM-y or not - scum don't vote together because that has become a common tell. That lynch made me sad.

Anyways, anything else you want me to explain?

[InflatablePie]

...

I feel sorry for the poor soul that's replacing in...

[InflatablePie]

Given the circumstances, especially if we cannot find a replacement soon, may we vote for it to be a draw? I'd be okay with that if the other players (FG and the dead) agree.

FG, I have to say, you played a good game. You're not bad for a newbie.

[InflatablePie]

"Let me flail"? I don't know what you mean.

I suppose you still think FG is town...

Well, I've already made my case and it seems you've already made your decision. If you have nothing else to add, then hammer. I hope you make the right choice.

[InflatablePie]

TRAITOR IS THE WORST ROLE EVER

FIRST ROLEBLOCKER HITS BOMB

THEN PARAMA GETS MODKILLED

AND TO TOP IT OFF, FATE REPLACES IN

NO IDEA HOW MAD I WAS/AM

GOD ****ING DAMNIT

;_;

[InflatablePie]

Good game to FG, like I said earlier. I shouldn't have switched from Parama on that day, but I realized Navy was a huge obstacle to me. Then it turned out it wouldn't have mattered anyways...

BAAAAHHHHHHHHH

Good game, guys.

Also, my name is Jeffrey too. ^5 StrangerCoug.