Mini 963: Furry Mafia (Game over!)

[Parama]

Vote: Fate

for stalking me.

HoS: InflatablePie, Fugitive, NvayCherub

for being from SH

FoS: Zang, Docpotter

because I've played with them before

IGMEOY: Antiximo, Brandi, broomhead, Espeonage, FakeGod

because I have no clue who any of you are

Daykill Parama

for not being on any of these lists

[Parama]

Your question makes no sense.
Also,

unvote, vote: Antiximo

- Popping gallis!!!

[Parama]

Who's Parama? I'm not Parama .-.

[Parama]

Oh one more thing.
This post should be the first and last time the word "meta" is used. I do not want to see another use of that word in-thread.

[Parama]

Or meta is completely useless and doesn't work

[Parama]

OMGUS

Vote: Zang

^town

Brandi, I can assure you it wasn't serious. I do not approve of the buddying, either.

[Parama]

I didn't like your question. It looked like a buddying attempt.
Explain how it comes off as defending DP?

[Parama]

You're the one stalking me though! I /in'ed this game before you! And you're trying to

re-replace

into another game I'm in!!! <______<

[Parama]

Oh I see what I misunderstood, took defensive attitude the wrong way.

In response to the second bit, I am raging at him for using that word.

Don't understand how my comment towards Fate is buddying. Considering I consider your earlier question to be buddying it's funny to see your accusation turned against me and the hypocrisy in your reason is astounding!

[Parama]

Your vote is based on my supposed "buddying" yet your logic is going in an entirely different direction?
And if you would care to explain what you mean by your most recent post I'd be more likely to respond.

[Parama]

Your vote is based on my supposed "buddying" yet your logic is going in an entirely different direction?
And if you would care to explain what you mean by your most recent post I'd be more likely to respond.

Wow, you just keep making scummier and scummier posts. This is awesome. Don't worry, it's so obvious that by now I'm sure the rest of the town can easily pick up on it.

The problem is that I have no clue what you're implying is scummy now. It's rather hard to defend against that.

[Parama]

Lol there's a wagon on me. Good times.
Lol 3 of the votes are RVS. Good times.

[Parama]

But you see, I see no reason to explain myself to someone who I think is scum. What good does it do the town to explain to scum what they've done wrong? The fact that you are worried about what you need to defend against is a scumtell.

No, see, the problem is that if I have no clue what I'm being accused of then:
1. I can't defend myself
2. The attacker can continue pushing the case with minimal reason

Stop RVSing guys, I think that phase already ended.
FakeGod needs to rethink his life.

unvote, vote: FakeGod

because that's a bad excuse to jump onto an easy wagon. Plus it's putting me within L-2 before all the players have had a chance to show up... AND it's ignoring everything that went on in the last page... dear god the list goes on and on and on and on and on and...

[Parama]

It ended at the end of Page 1, when 3 players got into an argument and logic was thrown around. Anyone random voting at this point is using it as an excuse to jump onto a wagon.

[Parama]

Fake god and Brandi are on the same scum team.

Would you like to share your story with the class?

FakeGod took his teammate's place on the wagon when it was no longer benificial for them to have her on it. They are both acting scummy as well.

I like this logic but I think it's a bit early to be establishing scumlinks. Even if both players are scummy in their own regard and happen to both play a part in the same wagon through the logic you pointed out and...
Oh. Well... carry on then.

[Parama]

Antiximo overreacting to everything is getting old now.

@Parama: It's cool.

Unvote

and now your reaction is......?

The vote itself was not the problem. The timing and the reasons behind it were, and there's nothing you can do to take those back.

Unvote

Vote: Brandi

Your meta is showing Parama.

But the problem is I shot you in the head for saying meta.

[Parama]

On the first page Parama makes a statement about how he didn't want to see anyone mention meta. That is a bad for the fact that he is trying to lord some sort of authority over the town. Just because he says it is wrong doesn't make it so- many people have different opinions on the matter and it looks like he wants to use that as an excuse to lynch someone later on by saying "HEY I SAID NO META HERE YOU MUST BE SCUM!"

Meta is worthless. That's why I don't want people to use meta. It just doesn't work.
Being anti-meta = scumtell? Lol.

DocPotter (jokingly) replies to this by over-using the word meta, and Parama responds in a bit of a negative and defensive light. Which is odd considering the fact he claimed to know he was being sarcastic. (Which I was quick to point out later)

Lol, I'm giving my stance on meta. I already told people not to use it, and I gave my reasons why.
Notice the eyeroll emoticon. Lol it's definitely a sign of being serious

OMGUS

Vote: Zang

^town

Brandi, I can assure you it wasn't serious. I do not approve of the buddying, either.

First of all, there is absolutely NO evidence you can gain from such a post to consider Espe to be town at that point. Even if you had played with him before, a random vote like that would not be sufficient.

But it is also scummy in GENERAL because scum KNOW who the town are and could call ANYONE TOWN for ANYTHING. The fact that he felt the need to label someone town this early makes me think he is potentially setting up for something to go back to later on.

Or I feel a need to call someone likely town due to their attitude and timing of their post. I get good vibes from Espeonage's post there and I get good logic from his following ones. Issues there? I'm just callin' 'em as I see 'em, and I see a townie.

He also accuses me of buddying which is

ridiculous

as it was pretty obvious that was not the intent of my question. There is nothing remotely buddybuddy about what I said to Doc, I was not being friendly with him, I was not complimenting him, I was not supporting his ideas in any way shape or form. Knowing whether someone is serious or not could potentially lead to a vote- if he had been serious I would have called him opportunistic- since he wasn't I get the feeling he was just playing around with Parama (WHICH ALSO HAPPENS TO BE BUDDYING- SOMETHING YOU DISAPPROVE OF PARAMA!)

Whoops, I was accusing you of buddying with me, not Doc. Why you would bother to ask if someone was being serious about their vote during in RVS is a type of overreaction that can be used as a link later.
Meh, I explain it badly. But I've seen it as a buddy tell plenty of times and felt the need to call it out.

The fact that he didn't call Doc out for "buddying" him earlier yet he felt the need to point out he thought that -I- was buddying shows he is inconsistent.

I think you're overanalyzing RVS posts.

Then there is this gem:

You're the one stalking me though! I /in'ed this game before you! And you're trying to

re-replace

into another game I'm in!!! <______<

Look MORE CLOSELY AT BEFORE AND AFTER:

I do not approve of the buddying, either.

...


to THIS:

You're the one stalking me though!

I /in'ed this game before you! And you're trying to

re-replace

into another game I'm in

!!!

<______<

Notice the smiley face, the exclamation marks, the aura of familiarity, the friendly talking. Before he was talking to me in a serious manner. To fate? Definitely not. There is no doubting that this is blatantly obvious buddying here.

...
NO. JUST NO. YOU ARE TAKING EVERYTHING I SAY TOO SERIOUSLY.
THERE IS THIS THING CALLED HUMOR. I USE IT ON OCCASION. THERE IS THIS THING CALLED SARCASM. I USE IT OFTEN. YOU DON'T SEEM TO BE ABLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENT BETWEEN A SERIOUS POST AND A NON-SERIOUS POST.
Calling this buddying is a massive misrep considering that the intention was to keep a friendly atmosphere which you seem so intent on crushing. If you think everything I say is completely serious, you've missed half my posts in this thread. If you're going to call joking around buddying then I need to buy you a new scumdar. Here's $300, go crazy.

So, what is wrong with this picture?
Oh.
That's right.

Immediately after he accuses ME of buddying, what does he do?

HE GOES AND BUDDIES SOMEONE ELSE.

Not only is that hypocritical, it is once again, as I stated, immensely inconsistent which scummy as hell. If you're going to play a certain way, stick to it. Not go all wishy-washy and jump onto someone for doing one thing and then not everyone else who does it.

Lol, the problem is that I wasn't buddying.

So what did I do? I called him out on it:

You're the one stalking me though! I /in'ed this game before you! And you're trying to

re-replace

into another game I'm in!!! <______<

unvote

vote: Parama

Buddying doesn't sit well with me.

Obviously this post was meant to call him out on his hypocrisy. Just as I expected- it flew right over his head (and sadly the rest of the town as well) , and gets defensive and over-eager as well:

Lol, the problem is that I wasn't buddying.

Don't understand how my comment towards Fate is buddying. Considering I consider your earlier question to be buddying it's funny to see your accusation turned against me and the hypocrisy in your reason is astounding!

ITT Parama completely misses the point. And the fact that he "doesn't see" (Completely denying it) the buddying between him and Fate even further discredits his initial attack on me. If my question to Doc was buddying, his comment towards Fate is buddying x 9000.

Lol, the problem is that I wasn't buddying.

He then proceeds to make comments asking me for my reasoning. This is something scum do because as I previously stated, scum squirm/flail when they don't understand what they've done wrong. He is asking me to give him something to defend against. If he was pro-town he wouldn't care about my vote or my confidence in it. Especially considering he wasn't really close to being lynched as most of the votes on him were RVS votes, which would easily and quickly get removed.

If I have nothing to defend against I have no way to tell you that you are wrong, thus you will continue to leave your vote on me for logical fallacies. I'd rather spend time pointing out errors in cases against me and then continue finding the real scum than spend time wondering what the hell you're talking about and being unable to do anything about it.

Then he goes and continues to be scummy throughout the rest of the game:

Stop RVSing guys, I think that phase already ended.

Once again lording over some sort of self-credited authority over the town, pretending to actually be doing something when doing nothing at all- especially considering there was no one to direct that statement to as we were already out of RVS.

Feigning helpfulness is also a scumtell.

Implying that I really did feign helpfulness, which is something you can't prove because it's wrong.

90% of the posts he has made in the game thus far have been scummy. So far he is the scummiest player over all. He needs to die.

If you can point out 16 scummy posts I've made out of 17 posts total (rounding up here), go for it. If you want to bring percentages that you cannot objectively prove into the game, go for it. I say go for it because it's impossible, and if you want to waste your time with it, I'm not going to object. Continuing to build a case on me based on misrep and misinterpretation is a bigger waste of time than what you're doing right now.

[Parama]

EBWOP: That last sentence should read:
"That would be less of a waste of time than continuing to build a case on me based on misrep and misinterpretation like you've been doing."
Total word failure. Bleh.

[Parama]

Not going to argue with that logic.

[Parama]

Apparently I can't change your mind, so I'm not going to bother responding.
ANYWAYS.
FakeGod still needs to have a noose around his neck.

[Parama]

Yup.

[Parama]

Before you ask no it doesn't have anything to do with you in particular.

[Parama]

This is pointless.
I am only being hypocritical under the assumption that I actually did buddy with someone, which I have not. Apparently humor is buddying nowadays. Your assumption is incorrect, your case is invalid, thus you have no case.
Do you see my point now? Good.
Brandi, I think you're town who's looking way too hard into everything and tunneling on me when there's a more obvious scum in FakeGod. If I thought you were scum I wouldn't bother responding to any of your walls because I don't need to explain why a case on me is logically flawed to scum because they won't listen to me anyways.

[Parama]

Okay, here's how I would define buddying.
Buddying is a deliberate attempt to establish a connection with another player. Buddying can be obvious and buddying can be subtle.
Scumlinks are different from buddying because scumlinks are not intentional by definition - it's more something that scum inevitably do regardless of whether they know it or not. The two can overlap - buddying can be a scumlink, of course, since otherwise there would be no point in looking into buddying attempts - but there's a definite difference.
Dunno where your definition of buddying came from, though I could agree that in certain cases it would fit under my definition - though it would more likely be the timing of such a post that would catch my eye.

[Parama]

Ok, here's my thoughts about the players and the role they played in the game so far.

Parama-why do you hate meta?

*headdesk*
Are you even reading the thread? It REALLY helps.

You're rather late for the party y'know.

Your voted for parama after saying that he was "buddying" with fate. How was this buddying? And when asked by Parama you say that

Ah, just as I expected you to respond. The fact that that flew right over your head is quite amusing.

and

Wow, you just keep making scummier and scummier posts. This is awesome. Don't worry, it's so obvious that by now I'm sure the rest of the town can easily pick up on it.

But you never did explain it.

Um, yes she did

Notice the smiley face, the exclamation marks, the aura of familiarity, the friendly talking. Before he was talking to me in a serious manner. To fate? Definitely not. There is no doubting that this is blatantly obvious buddying here.

This is where the lines between RVS and real discussion where blurred. I assume that because Fate voted for Parama as a random vote that Parama would respond to it as a random vote. [/quote]
If you were reading the thread you would realize that this argument has been worked out and it was because of different definitions of the same term.

Conclusions: READ THE THREAD DAMMIT.

FoS: Zang

- You haven't done much all game and what you

have

done is bring up out-of-date arguments just as an excuse to jump on the current largest wagon. If FakeGod wasn't such obvious scum I'd probably be voting you.

[Parama]

Now seems as good a time as any to post my FakeGod case.

so I asked my 8 ball whether Parama is maf.
It said yes 5 times in a row, forcing me to re-RVS.

Unvote: Broom

Vote: Parama

1. Using the reasoning of RVS to take an opportunistic place on a growing wagon
2. Ignores the fact that Brandi has been putting up logic for here vote
3. Puts me at L-2 before all the players even have a chance to show up - L-2 is rather dangerous at such an early stage of the game
Pretty sure I already posted these reasons before.

Rethinking my life. Sorry for jumping on your wagon.

After I call him out for his post he tries to appeal to me with an apology... but doesn't act upon it. Just blatant AtE.

Wow! This is fast-paced!!!

@Espeonage: I like your style. Concise and decisive.

@Antiximo: yeeeah I thought I saw you there...

@InPie: I never stop random voting. Never ever.

There is a complete lack of content here. Considering the opening line of the post you'd expect to find something but nothing here actually contributes to the game - it's just more appealing to other players.
There's no reason for townies to appeal to everyone - they should focus on finding the scumzorz, not trying to make themselves look townier. FakeGod is doing the latter, which is something only scum have motivation to do.

@InPie: I <3 Pikachu!

@Brandi: I like your style. Sophisticated and well-reasoned.

@Parama: It's cool.

Unvote

and now your reaction is......?

Alright, I think I have a rough sketch of people I'll be playing with. It's an honor to be playing with you folks

*takes a bow*

but I don't think I'll be posting until more people (like that broom guy I rved) shows up.

Yep more appealing. He even asks for my reaction to an unvote. You really want to know? I think you're just trying to get others to like you so nobody will lynch you. As you can see, that's certainly backfired.

The case on FakeGod starts an incriminating post committing 3 scummy actions, and continues with a constant stream of appeal to try and cover it up. I'm not buying it, there's no town motive for what he's doing, only scum motivation.
This is why FakeGod is scum and needs to die.

[Parama]

If you couldn't tell my sarcasm, I'll tell you right now that I wasn't rethinking my life, or sorry for jumping on your wagon. Please refer to my quote above.

If this is true then why did you unvote later for no reason whatsoever?

Since you just accused me of trying to get others to like me in order to save myself, I take that you believe that's true, and that it could work? Yeah, sure. In a million years maybe.

If you had realized what you were doing was wrong then why did you continue to do it?

[Parama]

That's being unfair. It's called time zones and lack of computer access. Nvay hadn't had a chance to post; you DID and all you did was post useless fluff. Major difference there.
And you realize you are trying to discourage scumhunting for the sole reason that "the game just started!", right?

[Parama]

@Parama: Unvoting Random Vote without a reason is illegal now? and to your second question: "NO. JUST NO. ............ NON-SERIOUS POST" -Parama.

But the problem is you just contradicted yourself - you said you had a reason for voting me, and now you're saying it's RVS? Good lord.

Are you serious about your second post? because as I recall according to your words, there exists people like yourself who isn't serious every minute of the game, who enjoys writing in few fluffs, maybe for icebreaking.

Oh please, don't go there. If you're not being serious, you're doing a horrible job of it. And please don't turn this into a game where every time I call you out for something you're going to be like 'OH I WASN'T BEING SERIOUS THERE"

[Parama]

I think you're misunderstanding "chainsaw"...
A chainsaw is attacking someone for attacking another player. It's rather scummy to do because it's defending the other player while completely missing the point of defense and buddying up to that player. If you're going to defend someone, go all-out for it.
You don't want your play to be characterized by chainsaws, if you get my drift <.<
I agree that short content filled posts are pro-town but there are times when at least SOME reason is required.

[Parama]

If you couldn't tell my sarcasm, I'll tell you right now that I wasn't rethinking my life, or sorry for jumping on your wagon. Please refer to my quote above.

Implying that you had a reason to be on me. If you did not then you're caught in a contradiction.
Okay, you're serious now. I didn't say you weren't. I'm saying that you're not allowed keep using "Well I wasn't being serious in that quote" as a defense.

[Parama]

This may be true, but you just so happened to call out the two people with an actual case on Parama (the rest being RVS votes) and label them scum with no reasoning, almost out of nowhere. This is called a chainsaw defense. It doesn't even matter if Parama is scum at this point, even if Parama is town then it makes you look good for attacking those attacking him.

FakeGod didn't have a case on me, he RVSed.
If you want to know why I think Espeonage's link is goodlogic,

Ok it was based around the timing of FakeGod's post. It came just after Brandi unvoted.

^good logic. Problem is that Brandi is town and FakeGod is scum so even though the logic is good there's some sort of fallacy in it that I have yet to find.
...
Espeonage why did you lie to me? 164 = scummiest post not made by FakeGod thus far. I think I was wrong about you and I hate being wrong.
1. Bad reason to vote Brandi
2. LOL at that RVS statement
3. The timing of your vote on FakeGod is unsettling.
WHY MUST EVERYONE BE SCUM?

FoS: Espeonage

Hey DP any reason why you bring up logical evidence against FakeGod and then vote Espeonage based on a gut read?

[Parama]

Navy, be serious. Do you really think I'm scum? Are you sure enough to bet your life (mafia life) on it?

LOLOLOLOL OMGUS
FakeGod, you claim to make any argument against you fall apart yet you have done little to prove why we're wrong and you're right - you're just repeating the same things over and over even if it's not what you're being accused of. Nothing you have said has convinced me that I'm wrong, so I will continue to hold my vote as long as you continue to be the scummiest player here.

[Parama]

You already know my answer to your question.
I love how you're accusing people of being scum and then not acting upon it in any way. Votes? FoSes? Have a reason to accuse someone of being scum before you accuse them, please.

[Parama]

LOLOLOLLOL OMGUS
FakeGod, you claim to make any argument against you fall apart yet you have done little to prove why we're wrong and you're right - you're just repeating the same things over and over even if it's not what you're being accused of. Nothing you have said has convinced me that I'm wrong, so I will continue to hold my vote as long as you continue to be the scummiest player here.

Parama, please re-list your case against me. I answered to everything you accused me of I believe.

You answered it but your answers were not satisfying and I don't believe everything you've said. And if you really want me to add to it, you've been contradicting yourself frequently, accusing people without reason, and backtracking.

[Parama]

Okay I will admit that was a miscommunication.
Silly question to ask, but yes I'm pretty damn sure you're scum. If you flip town then I have failed at scumhunting. But betting my life in the game upon it? That's not a promise I can follow through with, because - believe it or not - in mafia sometimes townies get lynched. And should every player on a ML be lynched for being on the ML wagon? If that were the case then towns would never win mafia.
But you're scum so this is irrelevant.

[Parama]

Hello everyone, I can't say I recognize any of your names, but my memory is pretty terrible so if I may have just forgotten some of you. I'm totally ready for this game as I have my fursona as my avatar

Oh how cute, she gives us all a kind heart-felt welcome, I feel butterflies in my stomach.

Makes me want to hurl.

You have issues. That was uncalled for.

Brandi completely drops Parama for the rest of the page, and votes FakeGod.

I'm thrown off by this due to.
1) Parama, was from Brandi's POV scum, why would she so quickly look into 'scum's' FoS when to her it shouldn't be important?
2) She no longer responds to any of the quarrelling that goes on.
3) She has had no contact or any thought of FakeGoD (perhaps too headstrung over Parama).

The issue was resolved; it was an argument based on different definitions of the same term. Once it was resolved there was no need to keep fighting about it - I'm amazed that you did all this rereading and still didn't understand the argument at all.

until proven otherwise, he's either un-helpful town who needs to get pressured to get into the game, lurking scum, or parroting scum. I'm not liking Doc of pottering's way of playing at all right now

Or maybe someone who hasn't had computer access since their most recent post? That can happen y'know.

Your Espeonage read is based on the fact that he hasn't given reasons... but he did!

so I asked my 8 ball whether Parama is maf. It said yes 5 times in a row, forcing me to re-RVS. Unvote: Broom Vote: Parama something strange is going on......better ask my 8 ball again

Take note of this, he is still RVS'ing. Purposely ignoring the conversation going on.
...
After defending himself from Parama, he does infact, respond. However he responds with a emotion filled message saying that Navy is infact, the scummy one. Or better yet, that Navy isn't helping commenting on FakeGod's not helpful posts.

TL;DR - FakeGod is trying very hard for his life, and seems genuinely offended that his kindness was taken as scumminess. I find that for games such as these, it's best to stick with the norm. Usually things that pop out randomly, are only considered scummy, not out of the norm. I feel FakeGod is pretty town, however dumb town not taking the game seriously, newbie if you will.

Um... what? You bring up reasons he could be scum, then get a town read on him based on those? Contradiction much?

I see, Fugitive has clear reads extremely early, and makes a case on neither. He does however leave a vote on FakeGod.

You don't need cases to have good reads. I prefer posting my cases on my scum reads to convince others why I'm right - others are just blunt about their reads and have reasons but don't give them. The latter doesn't make anyone scummier.

...Fugi never made a post about loving me... ;_; Zang, you don't have ANY thoughts on the day so far?

cool random post of nothing, also note his reach to other players.

Calling out someone who isn't contributing = goodposting

Fate - Post more please. Fugi - Yes, I like where your thoughts are right now, but post more.[/qupte]

It seems as if Navy likes the players who post FoS's, but don't have information to back it up, convienent that you like only two people

Again, lack of a case =/= scummy.
For example, if every player on a wagon had to make their own case on the person else get called out as scum, we would never agree on a lynch. 1. some people don't have the time or are too lazy, 2. cases would disagree with each other and players on the wagon would spend more time arguing about who's right rather than arguing why to lynch the player.

I like this logic but I think it's a bit early to be establishing scumlinks.

Oh really? How come

We don't have any dead scum to establish a connection to. Scumlinks are more important once we have a dead scum, as the connections there are much more meaningful. It's not a bad thing to establish scumlinks early but they should not be used as part of a case until there's a dead scum who links to other players.

[Quote="Parama"Even if both players are scummy in their own regard and happen to both play a part in the same wagon through the logic you pointed out and... Oh. Well... carry on then.

Let's ride on Espeonage some more please. Generally speaking his logic isn't all that sound, considering From your POV, your view of Brandi being scummy is OMGUS of sorts. Fakegod's from his trolling, which is regardless how you see it, consistent.

When did I ever say I found Brandi scummy? And consistently being scummy is a good thing?

Or I feel a need to call someone likely town due to their attitude and timing of their post. I get good vibes from Espeonage's post there and I get good logic from his following ones. Issues there? I'm just callin' 'em as I see 'em, and I see a townie

Woah, you were being serious about your town claim on Espe-? Scum alert. Espeonage said a total of FIVE LETTERS. (granted, it's an acronym)

I explained it. Why is everyone freaking out over an announced town read? (and hell it's already changed due to a terribad post by Espe)

Whoops, I was accusing you of buddying with me, not Doc. Why you would bother to ask if someone was being serious about their vote during in RVS is a type of overreaction that can be used as a link later. Meh, I explain it badly. But I've seen it as a buddy tell plenty of times and felt the need to call it out.

How could Brandi calling you out as scum possibly be buddying?

Lol that's not what my accusation of buddying was based on - please read more carefully next time. I explained why in the post you quoted.

I think you're overanalyzing RVS posts.

Nice defense.

Because obviously everything in RVS is supposed to be taken 100% seriously.

... NO. JUST NO. YOU ARE TAKING EVERYTHING I SAY TOO SERIOUSLY.

Sudden outbursts over trivial things.

Arguing down a case against me = trivial? Lololol.

*headdesk* Are you even reading the thread? It REALLY helps.

anger towards Zang. Parama doesn't seem very helpful towards keeping town in the right direction. I don't like his play style, whether it may be meta-gaming him as town or not. I just... can't wrap my finger around how that arguement happened and was dropped so quickly. While i have towntells from Brandi, I feel that was staged too.. Frustration :_: w/e, i'm done with this guy.

I'm telling people why I find them scummy or what they're doing wrong. Yes, I am being rather blunt about it. Is that a big deal?
Please note that reading the thread carefully is quite important, and you aren't reading it carefully enough considering some of the points you've brought up against me.

TL;DR - PARAMA I don't like the way he plays, he generally has spent the day defending himself, explaining meta and how it's bad, and FoS'ing FakeGod who is by far the easiest person to FoS in this entire game. It feels like Mafia biting for an easy target. Then pressuring the poor guy because he generally is fucked for being random for a total of four to five pages. Anyways, i'm not liking Parama too much, but w/e

The most obvious scum is usually scum. The easiest to FoS has good reasons to be FoSed. There's a method to my madness, and it's one to catch the scum and get them lynched.
And if you have problems with the way I play, too bad. I know it works so I'm not going to bother changing it.

Zang, you're so lucky it's ridiculous, i'm so tired right now.. It's been four hours.. I just want to be done... Let's make this quick and painless...

I agree with this. Parama, Why would esp be town for a RVS OMGUS vote on me?

Whaddya know, this includes Zang. So he's curious about it. It seems like he's secretly pointing a finger to Espeonage to get lynched next, without actually saying it. He is parroting Brandi on another note. If we lynch zang and he flips scum, we should check out Brandi.

Lol you just pulled that accusation out of thin air didn't you.

TL;DR ZANG I'm interested in his flip. I feel he's the play for today.

So you're interested in his flip but in this same line you don't feel it necessary to say why you find him scummy?
*headdesk*

Responding to your post felt like a waste of time tbh.

[Parama]

Parama, why do you have a problem with jokes, however you are okay with yourself joking?

Just curious.

Where did I say I have a problem with jokes?

[Parama]

Parama-

Yep more appealing. He even asks for my reaction to an unvote. You really want to know? I think you're just trying to get others to like you so nobody will lynch you. As you can see, that's certainly backfired.

How does looking for a reaction to an unvote make it so that others won't lynch you? And just looking for a reaction I have seen be done by both scum and town.
Although I do agree with your other points in your FakeGod case.

Reword this question because I have no clue what you're asking.

Whaddya know, this includes Zang. So he's curious about it. It seems like he's secretly pointing a finger to Espeonage to get lynched next, without actually saying it. He is parroting Brandi on another note. If we lynch zang and he flips scum, we should check out Brandi.

I wanted to know why parama thought esp was town for voting me, just as you wanted to know earlier in your post.

It wasn't the target of his vote that made me get a town vibe, as I have already explained.

[Parama]

Parama brought out this comment although he was content with arguing with Brandi before this. FakeGod has been consistently using this comment because he has been 'rvs'ing' longer than everyone else.

Really Brandi was looking a little too much into RVS nonsense and the way she defined buddying led her to believe I was buddying through my RVS. The way I defined buddying was different and so Brandi thought I was being hypocritical by her definition - took a while to realize we were defining the same term different ways, and when we figured it out there was no longer any argument.
Handing out the newbie card isn't something I'm a fan of doing, especially in theme games. If you're new to mafia you shouldn't be playing theme games until you've done at least a newbie game and a normal game.

[Parama]

I'm wondering why looking for a reaction to an unvote makes it so others will like you.

Not sure if I'm answering what you're asking because the question is still the worst worded question in history, but:
He asked for my thoughts on the unvote - appealed to me and then waited for me to react to this appeal. It wouldn't be as bad if he hadn't asked for my thoughts, but when he added that short question it made it blatantly obvious that all he wanted to do was get on my good side.

[Parama]

Just checking in, I honestly don't have much to say right now. Fugi brings up good points about FG-Pie connections though I'm not sure I agree with them because it's similar to the proposed FG-Brandi connection. Don't really have a read on Pie right now tbh, haven't been paying as much attention to him.
Espe has stopped making sense altogether although I'm not sure if that warrants a lynch or not. FakeGod is still better by any means.
I've been studying all weekend and I'm taking an exam later today so excuse my laziness on this matter if you would.

[Parama]

Anti, if you feel someone is town, don't vote them <.<

[Parama]

By the way we are not lynching anybody within the next 5 RL days. I mean yeah I probably won't be changing my vote but the information we can get from letting the day go on longer is as important as lynching right.

[Parama]

He hasn't responded to the case on him from Pie or myself at ALL.

Also how can this come from Town?:

Zang isn't a noob. I would probably policy lynch him on the fact that his only tell while scum that I saw was my gut feeling.

I never said I was advocating a Zang lynch. I was merely giving an explaination to Anti. That is Fate's ideal. Not mine.

More Espeon votes please. If Anti votes the "probtown newb" over Espeon still in his next post I'll lynch him after Espeon's scumflip.

Goddammit Fate
That's beautiful

unvote, vote: Espeonage

Yeah that's pretty obvious scum,

FoS: FakeGod

ofc because you're not off the hook yet

[Parama]

Sorry not much time to say much right now
I like Fugitive's case there's one or two things I disagree with
Espe needs to respond to cases and votes on him
Happy scumday Brandi hope your internet gets fixed soon
I'll gladly be on either the FakeGod or Espe wagon because both are scummy as hell but I'm definitely staying on Espe until he responds

[Parama]

FG, there's a difference between lying and not reading the thread carefully
Fugi seems to have done the latter.

[Parama]

I don't get it.
I have no clue what Fugi means by a "strategy"
It looks like he admitted to lying and is backtracking upon it even though what he originally said wasn't a lie but more of a "not reading the thread" time thing.
Um wut.

[Parama]

That doesn't help :/
w/e I have no clue what you're doing right now so I'm just going to shut up.

[Parama]

Zang are you going to ever do anything substantial? All you're doing is commenting on other people's posts without providing anything original and you're not really doing any scumhunting. At all.
Why must there be so many scummy people in this game? My Espe vote isn't moving until he responds, maybe not even then if his responses suck. But srsly... FG, Espe, Zang, all need to die.

[Parama]

Not enough time to post or even read all these walls

unvote, vote: FakeGod

for now. Pretty sure that's L-1, hope it's not the hammer.

[Parama]

Fugi, sorry but I tend not to trust people who pretends lying is part of their grand strategy, and you are not helping town any by keeping this "2-part strategy" to yourself. So until you explain how your lying will help the town find scum, I'm going to include "Fugi lies" in all my posts. And I feel justified in doing so, because I was the victim in this case.

Okay, going to say that the man has a point here since I do not approve of whatever the hell Fugi is doing right now. Seriously, explain why you seem to be screwing around, Fugi. I don't get it, I don't think anyone does, and you've openly admitted to doing scummy things with no real explanation except "I have a strategy."

btw I am liking Fugitive as town.

If you're going to appeal to someone, appeal to the people attacking you, not the one defending you. That just screams "buddying."

The Fugitive/FakeGod life gamble is the most retarded thing I have ever seen.

THE MOST RETARDED THING I HAVE EVER SEEN.

Now, second order of business. Esp is clearly my second candidate for scum now. I think he's scum, possibly even more likely than FG. BUT, we stand to gain less from his lynch, so I'd still like an FG lynch today.

I hate this. Lynch the most likely scum regardless of the information it will give you. If you're more likely to hit scum with lynch A than lynch B, then obviously lynch A is a better lynch.

No, it's not meaningless because Esp will probably be lynched today, leaving, likely both of us, tomorrow. And my way is much more town friendly.

Note this for later people because this is going to come back to haunt Fugi, I promise.

No i don't think Zang is scum.

Okay. Would you support a Zang lynch, then?

Saying you think someone isn't scum implies you don't want to lynch them. Why are you asking such a pointless question?

It's one of Mastin's Insane Tells (wiki it) and I've found it to be generally true.

You realize they're called "insane" tells because most people regard them as worthless. Like me. Espeonage could be scum, but I wouldn't vote for him, yet, based off of what I've seen no matter what Mastin says.

Argument from experience here but yes people who answer questions directed at other people are more likely scum because they're acting with more authority than the town would and are responding with their opinion for another person who might have a different opinion.

Shh, Fugi. It's bad enough I had to bring up the tell - don't ruin my plan.

Why does everyone seem to have some sort of evil plot?

lol Espeonage.

FG is starting to show obv town, along with Fugi, so perhaps you should try casting your mis-information wider.

Then where are the scum?

There's a Penis of Suspicion.

I forgot about this one. Oh, Scoreheroers.

Inb4ObligatoryParamaPainOfSalvationJoke

*Obligatory Parama Pain of Salvation Joke*

OH MY GOD BROOMHEAD IS SCUM.
SERIOUSLY LOOK AT THE TIMING OF HIS ARGUMENTS.

So what does that mean? We can lynch him now (probs not the best idea - in case he is doc) or wait to see if he is killed in the night. If he is, then he was the doc, if not: scum. There is a big flaw with that plan though, say he is doc. Then scum won't kill him over the night and we'll waste our day 2 lynch on an innocent. I see no way to see if he is telling the truth or not besides my gut.

unvote

Vote: Espeonage

The problems with your initial idea:
1. Lynching a claimed doc is never a good idea, because - like you said - if he IS really a doc then scum will kill him.
2. You set up a nice Espeonage framing here - you're basically saying "If he's alive tomorrow we lynch him." Ever think the scum might intentionally leave him alive for this reason? Not a very townie thing to say.

And the worst part is that you say we shouldn't lynch him and then you go and vote for him two posts later. /contradict self much?

So what does that make me think?
It makes me think that Fugi is the scum and FG is the town. That does not exonerate FG from making a stupid 'life gamble', but whatever.

So what do you think Fugi jumping onto Espe was? Scum bussing their buddy when a potential ML could happen just as easily? You seem to be forgetting you have a scum read on Fugi as well as the person he's voting.

Well there is a thought. I am am not going to vote for Fugi right now (as I planned) because i have a better idea. But the idea requires more quotes.

I'm starting to think that everyone but me is plotting something sinister.

I don't get the point of your post following that quote. Are you implying that if we lynch Espe and he flips scum then Fugi would be a good lynch as well? Lining up lynches much?
By the way, blatant defending of someone =/= scum defending scum. In fact, that's rarely the case. If it gives them more town cred then scum will bus their buddies to death if it looks like the lynch is inevitable anyways.

Broomhead's continued push on a claimed PR reeks of scumminess, especially the major logical fails involved.

yeah, I think he's lying. and if he is not he'll be killed in the night anyways. And if he is not killed in the night then we are forced to kill him day 2 because why wouldn't the freakin scum kill him? Because he is scum.

Yay there's that framing job again. If you want this to happen the why the hell are you voting Espe instead?

Zang are you going to ever do anything substantial? All you're doing is commenting on other people's posts without providing anything original and you're not really doing any scumhunting. At all.
Why must there be so many scummy people in this game? My Espe vote isn't moving until he responds, maybe not even then if his responses suck. But srsly... FG, Espe, Zang, all need to die.

I believe that I am, I'm not just commenting, I'm responding to questions or accusations at me and I'm asking questions myself. I am scumhunting. And at least I'm contributing, people like docpotter or fate get away with posting little content and I'm the one being criticized for not scumhunting.

Okay, I'm going to use the remainder of your post to point out why you're wrong.

Fugitive please bus Espeon now.

Zang an espeon vote would go a long way with your content problem.

I don't know what "content problem" your talking about but I am thinking about voting esp.

Content problem = active lurking
Why are you thinking about voting Espe? You say you want to (after a claim) and then you don't act upon it. And there's absolutely no reason.

Zang, yes I suppose it is.

I learned recently that I don't make good arguements/cases, that my most effective way of playing is to wait for the scum to out one of their number and then track the others down that way.

Which is what I plan to do.

I recently have also learned something like that but you should still try.

^pointless filler^

You say you don't want a Zang lynch and you tell us what Fate was thinking, rather than letting Fate answer the question.

So you're hinting that you think Zang is scum, but at the same time saying you don't want him lynched. I don't like that. It looks like you're trying to be on both sides here, so you can back up either side later on.

I don't mind your vote on DP, but it's not making you look better. ]

I think you overreacting. All esp was doing was explaining why he agreed with fate. I don't know how you can get that he thinks I'm scum from that.
Have you seen him say I was scum anywhere?

Here we have Zang defending Espe and giving Espe's reasons for him. That doesn't look anything like buddying, does it?

Off-Topic Question: is there a Arm of Suspicion? or maybe Half-My-Body of Suspicion?

No, I think the highest suspicoun is the hand but I have seen a KOS or knuckle of suspicoun which is slightly less than a FOS.

^pointless filler^

You HAVE voted for Zang. Your first post:

OMGUS

Vote: Zang

Other than the posts I brought up in my arguments against you (policy lynching, Zang being a good scum), I don't think you've mentioned Zang much.

Calm down, Esp. Maybe hum a little bit of "I Feel Pretty"?

That vote was in RVS, it shouldn't count toward if esp has voted for me.

More defending Espe, trying to justify HIS votes. Um... buddy more why don't you?

Doc peeps.

I'm not really sure if i believe this yet.

Oh really? See: later on in this post.

I seriously doubt we have 2 docs in one game so there is no way to save him if he is doc.

Are you claiming doctor? as far as I know he is the only person who's claimed doctor unless I'm missing somebody. If your not claiming, how do you know we have two doctors?

ROLEFISHING ZOMG

Eh, because I'm dumb and just didn't think of it. Even still that definition alone would not have helped me much as Parama explained it better.

Thank you for responding to my questions, and also

Unvote

Did you really have a reason to hold a Brandi vote for that long? What about Brandi's responses made you see her as townier?

I'm going to hold off on voting espionage for now because of his claim.

So you believe his claim... but earlier you said you didn't believe it. Contradiction.

Notice how the majority of your post here does not even attempt to find scum - it's more defending and doing generally scummy things. There's no logic, there's nothing even worth posting - yet you say you're scumhunting? You're either stupid town or scum. Maybe even stupid scum.

Whoops, back to the Fugi thing I mentioned earlier.

No, it's not meaningless because Esp will probably be lynched today, leaving, likely both of us, tomorrow. And my way is much more town friendly.

Unvote

Vote: Espeonage

I've been convinced.

Your first quote was from BEFORE you were even voting Espe? Really Fugi? I thought you were better than that. You're saying "Well Espe is going to be lynched" even though you oppose the lynch, and then later you jump on this same wagon.
Um, hello?

That's L-2, on FG, Parama. Unless I grossly miscounted, but I triple checked.

Unvote

Vote: FakeGod

This is L-1.

Esp will probably be lynched today, leaving, likely both of us, tomorrow

WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?

Seriously, screw this game.
Parama-certified scumlist:
Broomhead
Zang
FakeGod
Fugitive
Espeonage

If all the scum aren't on this list then I fail at mafia forever. The fact that this list is so big is frustrating me. This is my preferred lynch order for now. It was actually rather hard to order - Broomhead is top because of the repeated contradictions pointed out here along with a lack of activity during the heated parts of the Espe wagon. Zang is there because I have no reason to see him as town, and he's either lying about his posts or just doesn't get it; more likely the former. FakeGod is still scum because he still hasn't done much to help the town. Fugitive has done some ridiculous stuff and has massive contradictions in his voting record. Espeonage isn't on the bottom of this list just because of the claim - my vote was more pressure before and though he hasn't done much to change my mind everyone else above him has proved to be scummier.

unvote, vote: Broomhead

This is a really frustrating game and I don't like having to post huge walls like this just to say everything that needs to be said. This took an hour and I'm all but 100% sure that the entire scumteam is on my list.
Extra notes:
Broomhead is not scum with Espe (unless he's pulling an extreme bus technique that makes no sense at this point)
Fugi is not scum with FakeGod - obvious
Fugi is probably not scum with Espe, though this may be an opinion based on my crazy theories.
Zang is probably not scum with broomhead (rolefishing attempt; this is one of my least favorite things to have to do because these are my top two scum reads )

Man, I'm exhausted.

[Parama]

In that middle section I didn't really have much to say, bleh. Things were going on but nothing was really happening.
Now that you guys posted 3 pages full of scummy behavior in less than 12 hours I have plenty of points to make.

I don't post when I don't have anything to say.

[Parama]

Just sayin', according to that I'm town and your unvote is pretty scummy. Broomhead is definitely a safe-vote because he's not in danger of being lynched, that, and I generally find broom pretty pro-town.

Mmk, we have different opinions. I'm voting for who is scummiest, not who is safest to vote for. The scummiest person who didn't claim Weak Doc was FakeGod before I really read the posts but now that I have read them I'm ready to pursue an even more obvious scum.

[Parama]

But now Fate is voting Broomhead.

[Parama]

Yeah you edited while we were posting.

[Parama]

Claiming doc like that is not all the helpful for him. It also makes me mad suspicious that he didn't just claim doc.

Didn't catch this on my read but noticed it in Brandi's post.
Have something to say about this.
More specific claim = more likely scum? Lol.
And why is claiming a PR not helpful? That doesn't make sense.

Also,

As a scum on day 1, why not claim doc?

Claiming doc like that is not all the helpful for him.

is contradicting yourself pretty obviously.
Quote A: Why wouldn't scum claim doc? It helps them.
Quote B: Scum claiming doc doesn't help them.

Fate looks like he's screwing around tbh, impossible to read. Hope that's not the point <_<

[Parama]

I agree, all this talk of pie is just making me hungry.
Also, why are we Pain of Salvation'ing each other?

[Parama]

By the way I have nothing new to add because nobody is saying anything.
Though I have to ask: DocPotter, did you see Espe's claim?

[Parama]

An ISO of DocPotter shows that he hasn't actually said anything about the claim :/

[Parama]

The problem is that if he declares who he's protecting then he'll never save a kill :/

[Parama]

Actually we have 3 people with 3 votes on them but only 2 are acceptable lynches.
In other words, lynching Espeonage is about the worst thing we can do today, I'd be happy with a FakeGod lynch though I want a broomhead one more tbh. And a Zang lynch before FG too.

[Parama]

Somehow I forgot to do this. The switch is mostly due to Brandi's case on broom (436?) which I happen to agree with. Also because Fate told me to.

So my case on Broom, which sparked Brandi's case on Broom, doesn't matter at all?
Also, I do not approve of how quickly this went to L-1. The guy hasn't even responded yet :/

[Parama]

Okay but let's not rush into this. I like Broom being at L-2 until he responds but I'm not quite sure I want to be the one to unvote :/ Being the first vote on scum is a pretty good spot to be.

[Parama]

Because broomhead is the obvious scum here and needs to die?
He also needs to respond and claim before someone hammers him.

[Parama]

Oh the irony.
(see what the rule is if you don't get it )

[Parama]

i'll kill him to make you feel better parama. also i'm sure i'll not die tonight if he's scum, cool beans

vote: broomhead

If you try to hammer again I will make sure you are tomorrow's lynch.
We are waiting for broomhead to respond.

[Parama]

The problems with your initial idea:
1. Lynching a claimed doc is never a good idea, because - like you said - if he IS really a doc then scum will kill him.

and if he doesn't die we can never trust him. So he is of no more use to us, correct?

No, see, lynching a claimed doc is anti-town because the maf WILL shoot them if they're lying. If he doesn't die it means that he could be maf *or* that maf could be framing him and trying to get him lynched (like what you're doing right now). There's no good reason to lynch a claimed doc on day 1.

2. You set up a nice Espeonage framing here - you're basically saying "If he's alive tomorrow we lynch him." Ever think the scum might intentionally leave him alive for this reason? Not a very townie thing to say.

Yeah, thats exactly what I was talking about. If scum does leave him alive then what are we supposed to do besides think he is scum?

Wow, I think you're just missing the point :/
If he's alive tomorrow, yes, it could mean he's scum, OR that maf are trying to set him up to look like scum. It's called "framing" and it's what you seem to be doing.

And the worst part is that you say we shouldn't lynch him and then you go and vote for him two posts later. /contradict self much?

It is an evolution of thought, not perfect answers. I didn't hide any of my thought process

If your thought process contradicts itself.... oh geez.

So what does that make me think?
It makes me think that Fugi is the scum and FG is the town. That does not exonerate FG from making a stupid 'life gamble', but whatever.

So what do you think Fugi jumping onto Espe was? Scum bussing their buddy when a potential ML could happen just as easily? You seem to be forgetting you have a scum read on Fugi as well as the person he's voting.

Scum can't vote for each other? Does it not make sense to have some sort of case against all your scummates so you can say you persecuted them?

Um, yeah, that's called bussing. But bussing onto a wagon that claims right after is silly. And considering that a FakeGod lynch was just as likely to happen, bussing doesn't make as much sense.

Also,

As a scum on day 1, why not claim doc?

Claiming doc like that is not all the helpful for him.

is contradicting yourself pretty obviously.
Quote A: Why wouldn't scum claim doc? It helps them.
Quote B: Scum claiming doc doesn't help them.

Fate looks like he's screwing around tbh, impossible to read. Hope that's not the point <_<

You can't take two quotes with different contexts and put them next to each other to 'prove' a point. Stupid. the first quote was a rhetorical question from Espeon's point of view.

In the first quote, you imply that scum claiming doc benefits them. In the second, you say that it doesn't benefit them. I don't understand how that makes sense.

And for the record we're not changing wagons again. No way. A third claim on D1 would kill the town IMO. Broom doesn't seem any less scummier after posting, I say hammer away.

[Parama]

EBWOP: oh and parama, don't give me that hammer bs, if you were that fearful of his hammer, why don't you unvote?

I like my position on the wagon. Some derps take the lynch order as the wagon order when analyzing wagons, and I want to stay at the front of this wagon.

[Parama]

He already claimed <.<

[Parama]

2 mods and it's still taking this long?

In other news, Zang is tomorrow's lynch.
And Anti, never do that again, it's basically cheating.

[Parama]

It has the potential to have scum claim before they're actually lynched - gamebreaking, tbh, and in no way is it fair play.

[Parama]

I KNEW IT. Called Zang as scum.
I think that gives us an extra lynch.
Need to reread Zang and find a good place to start for today.
Also Espe I'd like to know who you protected last night. Though there's a good chance you were roleblocked.

[Parama]

I KNEW IT. Called Zang as scum.

You've called EVERYONE scum. It's not really surprising Zang was one of the ones you called out.

I need to re-read too, but for now:

Vote: FakeGod

Yo Fugi see my scumlist - Broom was first, Zang was second.

Also Espe may have been roleblocked like I suggested, which would explain him being alive.

Though, any particular reason you chose to protect Zang? :/

[Parama]

Wait.
If you hadn't been roleblocked, you would have died instead of Zang - it would still count as a doc protect :/
So I think it's safe to assume you were roleblocked. Unless the claim is a lie ofc, but even if it is we now have plenty of time, no need to lynch Espe yet (we can mislynch 2 more times and still win.)

@Fugi: I still think Brandi is town, though I agree that FakeGod is probably a good lynch today. I still want to reread Zang to look for scumlinks (I don't have enough time for this atm, working on a presentation for school :/)

[Parama]

I guess you're right

RVS - Espeonage (little info to be gained from this)
Builds case on Brandi when wagon is forming - scum pushing for a ML, anyone? Pretty set on Brandi being town at this point.
Caught this in one of Zang's quotes, Pie's stance on Zang in 209 is weird... says Zang could be scum but could also be moved to the neutral list based on lack of activity. Not liking this at all.
Mmk back to stuff Zang said.
Actually, dammit. Espe 237 wtf is this [REDACTED].
Ooh, here Zang says he's fine with voting Espe but never actually acts upon it, then here says he wants to hold off on lynching Espe due to the claim. Nice way of avoiding voting there, Zangscum <.<

Man, that did nothing to help my reads. I want to hear more people say stuff before I decide on a good lynch. I was planning on interrogating Zang and getting him lynched today (again: see my scumlist which I order - it's back in that huge wall) but well he's dead so I kinda lost my direction :/
Still don't think Espe is a good lynch today, though if he's alive at LyLo then we're going to have some real problems

[Parama]

Let's not have anymore FakeGod votes until he gets here to post, please.

[Parama]

Vote count is pretty unhelpful tbh. Only 2 people not on the broom wagon are still alive.

Espe, why target Zang?

I don't like this question- it seems like something that would be more helpful to scum than town. If esp explained why he protected Zang(Who just so happens to have been scum) last night... that could help scum to figure out who he is going to protect tomorrow.

To be fair I asked this same question and giving reasons for a doc protect is generally a good idea.

also @Cherub, I don't know what you mean by "driven."

Mafia busdriver I'm assuming, but I don't like this suggestion at all. What's the point of arguing against the roleblocker theory? Seems like an attempt to confuse the town.

Anyways, on the votes on the broom wagon, Nvay's stands out as being 100% bandwagon, and I don't like the way FakeGod voted and then 2 posts later commented on how he liked my case. Seems like scum forgetting to give reasons in their vote post so they have to quickly make them up later.
Still going to withhold my vote for now but I think a FakeGod lynch is probably the bets today... hell, he's not that close to a lynch anyways, might as well

vote: FakeGod

.

[Parama]

Odds are extreemly good that any surviving scum was on the Broom wagon, which makes me really suspicious of you. In fact I think it's safe to assume that all remaining scum were on that wagon.

So you're going to say that Fugi is almost certainly town?
Also, we're lynching way too fast. SLOW DOWN PEOPLE. We have as much time as we need, there's no reason to quicklynch.

[Parama]

Oh.
OOOOOOOOH.

unvote

I probably should've unvoted as soon as Doc put him at L-1 anyways.

[Parama]

Mmk so I'm going to vote between Fugi and Nvay, not sure which I want to choose for the better lynch yet, probably need to reread.

FoS: Fugitive, NvayCherub

until I decide who's more likely scum.

[Parama]

Mmk quick comparison to decide on my vote.

Fugitive: Has been tunneling on FakeGod pretty much all game (which seems like something I would do <_<). Sets up a scumlink between FakeGod and Pie early on. He has a good case against FG and not as much on Pie, so the vote make sense. Some weird plan - "intentionally acting scummy" - which may be the worst excuse I've ever heard. Seems very reluctant to vote Espe, and jumps off as soon as he claims. Nothing but opposition to the Broom lynch though this is null more than scummy. Never really explains his Anti vote though I will admit Anti did a pretty stupid thing at the end of D1. Back to tunneling FG D2, though recent unvote has no explanation or visible motive.

Nvay: Starts by saying that he has no doubts that FG is scum... um, that's a little too strong of terminology for a FIRST POST. But then his following posts back up his suspicions with good reasons and put valid pressure on FG. Lots of stuff here, but also doesn't do much scumhunting besides FG-related posts. Slips under the radar once pressure turns to Espe - earlier had made a buddyesque comment on Espe's play. When broom wagon forms, doesn't even seem to care about the reasons, just wants to make sure he isn't hammering before his bandwagon vote. Eagerly awaiting the reasoning on Pie btw. What happened to FG since D1? You haven't mentioned him in a while.

Fugi read... starts off townish but gets iffy later on, the more recent posts look pretty bad IMO.
Nvay starts off looking really town, disappears for a while, comes back looking super-scummy.

I like both Fugi's and Nvay's early points on FG but now that it has been made clear that FakeGod is likely town there's less to be taken from. Going off more recent posts of the two, I'm going to

vote: NvayCherub

because his recent posts are scummier than Fugi's (Fugi still needs to explain why he so quickly jumped off the FG wagon after a day's worth of tunneling though).

[Parama]

Yes that was implied by your unvote, and I agree, but that's not exactly the answer I was looking for. Why is he town, in your opinion?

[Parama]

...well I guess that's fair enough. Still not a straight answer but I'll live with it for now, especially since I'm more concerned about lynching Navyscum.

[Parama]

I'm glad you were sated by my ambiguous and safe answers.

Vote: Parama

You're not going to give me anything better as far as I can tell.

[Parama]

I'm glad you were sated by my ambiguous and safe answers.

Vote: Parama

You're not going to give me anything better as far as I can tell.

Well sure, but you should have called me on it. Not accepted it.

I'm more interested in Nvay at the moment, especially with his lack of posting, so excuse me if I'm less than interested in your apparent unwillingness to answer my question.

[Parama]

Oh wait, I see it.
Fugi is flailing scum.
The only case he's had all game has broken down, and he really can't provide a good reason to jump off it.
He's reaching for any reason to vote and thus his reasoning is weak.
He slipped up earlier with his "plan" to intentionally act scummy - he was really acting scummy because he's scum.
It's all so clear now, I should've noticed it sooner.

unvote, vote: Fugitive

Next expected post: Fugi calls my vote OMGUS and then attacks my reasoning but is unable to give a good defense because he knows it's true. I'm waiting with bated breath.
Dig that hole. Flail hopelessly. You know deep in your heart that it's the best you can do.

[Parama]

Oh by the way Nvay still needs to post.

[Parama]

Says the guy who tried to lead a lynch on FakeGod earlier today.
And your lack of logic is stunning. I didn't think you'd sink this low.
I love how you don't actually respond to my points against you at all.

I'll comment on Nvay's wall later, don't really feel like doing it right now. I agree with a lot of the points but Fugi is a better lynch. And Nvay still needs to respond to my accusations against him as well.

[Parama]

EBWOP that was directed at Fugi not Nvay

[Parama]

I love how you don't actually respond to my points against you at all.

Your points are nothing to warrant a response. It's a terribly weak case.

*terribly accurate
Prove my case is weak then. If you're just going to ignore what I'm saying and blow off my logic then I'm going to ignore every attempted defense of yourself and every failed attack on me.

[Parama]

Slipping under the radar as soon as the FG wagon breaks down - in fact you stopped mentioning him completely once the Espe wagon took off.
Blatant bandwagon vote on the broom wagon, being wary to make sure you weren't hammering.

It's just how much your later D1 play contradicts your early D1 play - it doesn't really make sense as a townie.

But Fugi became obvscum and is now flailing and thus needs to be lynched.

[Parama]

No need, everyone in here should be able to see that you list of points against me includes nothing that could vaguely resemble a scum-tell. If they can't see that then we have a hopeless town.

Town: Read my 574 and my 586 to see why this is a blatant lie of Fugi's part

[Parama]

Resorting to crap logic and weak cases once you realize everything you've pushed for all game has fallen to pieces and you've outed yourself as scum.
Basically, a last-ditch attempt to stay alive.
It's not working.

[Parama]

Parama, 574 and 586 are the same posts I'm referring to that don't hold any actual scum-tells as cases against me.

Obviously you didn't read them then.

Parama, I can't be flailing by your definition because I'm not making any cases.

Yeah go on, ignore most of the definition. There's still the crap logic, and the cause is still the same. You might want to get that selective hearing problem of yours fixed.

Oh good Fugi brought up his reasons to call FG town. The real question - Why did they take so long? A better one - Has this all happened since the start of Day 2? I highly doubt the answer to the second question is "yes." But since you were still set on an FG wagon then, and you aren't now, you seem to think that his Day 2 actions were enough to change your mind - thus a lot of your points aren't true in the scope of D2.

You really don't have anything, do you?

[Parama]

I wish Espe would stop being so scummy. I mean really, bandwagon to L-1? The target is fine but the vote is not.
Also Brandi if you're wondering where the Fugi wagon came from read from this post through the next page and a half or so.
Fugi's scum read on me is still based on one silly accusation that doesn't make any real sense <.<
The lack of a defense from Fugi is pretty telling IMO. All he's doing is attacking others instead of defending himself. Ragequitting scum is what it looks like.

[Parama]

Lol meta.
I trust my ability to read you. If you want to use a meta argument, I will too. I'm going to say that your play in this game hasn't looked like your normal town play - the Fugi I know would never intentionally act scummy for some secret "plan."

And yes I am willing to take full responsibility for your lynch as I did for Broom's lynch, if you care. I lead both of them, if anyone is to blame for lynching Broom the townie it's me. But lynching Fugitive the scum... I'll gladly take credit for that, thank you

[Parama]

I'd take credit for another town lynch because it would be my fault.
But you won't flip town .-.

[Parama]

If there are 4 scum in a mini then I will strangle the mod.

[Parama]

I'd take credit for another town lynch because it would be my fault.
But you won't flip town .-.

At least you'll take the fall. I blame obvious townies on the wagon (FG and Espeonage) more than you, though, because it's your job to kill townies.

I'm trying to lynch the scum here, it's not my fault .-.

I would ask Fate the reasons why he's voting me but I doubt he has any, or if he does he won't tell us. Basically all he's been doing all game.

[Parama]

So you're Fugi's buddy who changed his mind about bussing Fugi, glad to know.
Okay guys we've got this game wrapped up GO GO GO!

[Parama]

REAAAAAACH FOR THE STARRRRRRRS

Hey, it's only valid if Fugi flips scum

Espe, if DP is scum then he's going to shoot you tonight now that you've publicly announced that, right? Your plan won't work under either scenario:
1. DP is town - mafia kill you to get rid of a PR and try to frame DP
2. DP is scum - mafia kill you so DP isn't outed as scum

Either way publicly announcing your protect is only going to make it more likely for you to get killed, and it will lead to a WIFOM result because both scenarios end in the same result - we won't be able to tell. So I don't think your plan can work :/

[Parama]

So I guess no one likes my Pie theory. Oh well. That only makes me a bit more confident in it.

Actually I haven't been paying much attention to it.

I can see Paramascum too.

Then vote me.

[Parama]

Because being at L-3 totally means I'm going to be lynched today.

[Parama]

Hmm. That's a good point.

[Parama]

I love how there's still no case on me <3
I'm just VT if you guys care to know.

[Parama]

The speed of the wagon forming in contrast to Fugi's should be all-telling, by the way.

[Parama]

That was what I unvoted for @ Pie

Also... DP, did you vote me just to get me to claim? Isn't that like an extreme form of rolefishing or something?

FoS: DP

[Parama]

Unvote, Vote: DocP

I'm not seeing Parama scum at the moment.

Well you're wearing a blindfold so you probably aren't seeing anything...

[Parama]

I like how once people begin to move from Parama to DP, DP goes right back on Parama.

There's something funny about that, but I can't find the words.

It's called flailing scum! Like Fugi still is! DP now has to push whatever lynch he can in order to avoid his own!

unvote, vote: DocPotter

I think that's rather scummy! And he really only voted me to get me to claim in the first place, it's pretty obvious!

[Parama]

FFS.
Well Espe please doc DP tonight unless we have some magical PR out there who happens to believe DP to be lying.
and

unvote, vote: Fugitive

because this is a better lynch than Nvay right now.

[Parama]

Actually, ignore what I said before.

unvote, vote: DocPotter

Convince me you're not scum. Claim doesn't count. Rereading it seems like an excuse more than anything for your vote on me. Not genuine at all.

[Parama]

Don't hammer, DP needs a post to try and prove his towniness. The claim isn't good enough.

[Parama]

Espeo should NOT protect DocP. He should protect whoever the fuck he wants, and DocP "tracks" him. That way scum have to kill Espe tonight for fear of Espe targeting scum and DocP tracking him to said scum (if there are two deaths).

There's an obvious hole in this plan, which results in both their deaths (assuming DP is a tracker, which he needs to prove).
What happens if Espe doesn't doc DP and instead docs scum? And then mafia shoot at DP? Both power roles go down in the same night and we're no better off because of it.

The problem is that he hasn't done anything to prove his claim, and Fate being quick to jump off after just a claim is definitely a ping on my scumdar.

[Parama]

Hmm. Fate/Fugi scumteam is actually looking pretty likely now that I think about it. Fate was quick to jump off Fugi once the wagon broke apart, and was also quick to jump back onto me once DP claimed. And that plan reeks of scum motive, whereas Espe doccing DP allows DP to track whoever the hell he wants, allowing him to find scum himself and ensuring that he'll be alive tomorrow (remember - the roleblocker is down)

unvote, vote: Fugitive

because Fate gave it away and I've wanted this lynch longer anyways.

[Parama]

Yeah that's a likely story.

[Parama]

By the way being at L-1 is fun guys you should try it sometime

[Parama]

By the way I would like to remind you all that there's no case on me

[Parama]

See ya then. Glad you decided to hammer the scumzorz.

And make sure you doc DP, don't do what Fate suggested because it's a plot to get you both killed.

[Parama]

EBWOP, DP should track me tonight to prove that I'm not scum IMO. We only have one left and it's likely one of Fate or DP, but I want to lead another scum lynch <3

[Parama]

Parama is definitely scum. There are two scum left, him saying "track me track me!" is just bait.

I also already explained my plan. But you don't have to read the thread as scum I guess Parama.

Bye Fugi-town. You will be missed.

Personally I think it would've failed anyways, regardless of whether I had said something or not. But I'm not one to decide, being the townie I am. Don't worry Fate we can lynch you tomorrow once Fugi flips scum.

[Parama]

I wish I was a vig.

[Parama]

DocPotter tracker report now

[Parama]

I told you Brandi was town.

Anyways, going to reread some and place a vote. My Fate theory was based on Fugi flipping scum, plus he replaced out anyways and I'm not going to vote someone who is in the process of being replaced because it would be a futile vote.

[Parama]

OMG IT'S SLAXX

[Parama]

Since Fugi flipped town, I believe that we should pursue the other lynch candidate from yesterday.

I've never seen this actually work. More often than not this leads to two townies lynches in a row. And I'm a townie so... yeah.

Pie is leaving himself open to any lynch, it seems. Do not like.

FoS: Pie

[Parama]

Vote: Slaxx

[Parama]

No, it didn't. And neither does this. You prodding me to a vote when I decided myself not to vote is scummy, however.

[Parama]

Because I didn't want to.

[Parama]

A tracker report doesn't signify clear at this point, no. But Brandi is town regardless so it doesn't matter.

[Parama]

Mmk, then give these other reasons, otherwise I'm going to assume you don't have any.

[Parama]

Surprised you didn't have it ready from the get-go. I would have.

[Parama]

ISO 109, 110, 111, 114. Parama goes from Doc to Fugi to Doc to Fugi. The first vote isn't so bad. The second comes after DP's claim, I believe. The next two are what are pinging my scumdar - he goes from DocP to Fugi, the other lynch candidate for the day. To me, it looks like scum trying to stay off of the other main wagon, but then changes his mind when he learns that DocP won't be lynched and votes Fugi to save his own skin.

I had a case up against Fugi - is it really a problem for me to have voted him?

ISO 95 is where he tries throwing suspicion on Espeon (post-claim). The way it's done looks like scum casually mentioning this so they can quote it later. Don't see much mention of Espeon before this in what I ISO'd, either - it kinda came out of nowhere.

He was acting stupid at the time and I wanted to tell him that. Is suspicion where suspicion is due a bad thing? If so then I should stop playing mafia.

He mentions often (ISOs 94, 105) that there's "no case on him". This general attitude reminds me one of my first games offsite where I said this to one of my attackers when I was scum. Just something to note.

But it's true y'know. I'm just speaking the truth - there's no case on me, is there?

Parama says in 88 that he'd comment on Navy's wall eventually, but later says (102) he hasn't been paying much attention to it. On this note, no one has responded to my defense of it, not even Navy.

Yes I never did comment on it because at the time I didn't really give a damn. I was more interested in Fugitive.

In 78, Parama notices the speed of the D2 wagon on FG, advising town not to quicklynch, but leaves his vote. At this point, FG is at L-1. This irks me.

A quickhammer followed by FG flipping town would've been a great lynch for D3. Nobody quickhammers someone at L-1 because it's one of the most blatantly scummy things you can do. And I unvoted shortly after this anyways.

I don't feel like going too far back into D1/D2 at the moment, but I'll take a look if I have time.

So we're going to ignore 66% of the game then.

[Parama]

The whole Fugi thing concerns the way things happened. I don't give a damn if you had a case on him, you seemed to be voting for him just to save your own ass.

Then you're getting the wrong impression from my post.

Again, throwing suspicion on the claimed doc so you could go back and have a reason for voting later, if a wagon built on him.

I had no reason to suspect Espe. I just though he was being stupid.

I have a case on you.

There was no case on me yesterday when I was at L-1, was there?

So now that you're suspicious of me, wouldn't it make sense to take a look at the one person that tried building a case on me? Read my defense while you're at it.

I might go do that, except I have my own reason for suspecting you and am not interested in others' opinions.

A townie lynch is not always a good lynch. Votals weren't up, I don't think - someone could have hammered him by mistake and it's possible we would have lynched two townies as a result. Unvoting shortly after doesn't mean a thing to me.

I don't think anyone in their right minds would have voted FG after the pile of votes that had just been tossed on him.

I'd rather have some of my case up then spend so much time looking back for more evidence.

Fair enough, but then you're not getting the full story, so your evidence can easily be wrong. And it is.

A quickhammer followed by FG flipping town would've been a great lynch for D3.

o.O

wut

What's there not to understand?

[Parama]

Then you're getting the wrong impression from my post.

Actually, I think I'm exactly right and you know it.

No, you're not.

I had no reason to suspect Espe. I just though he was being stupid.

I wish Espe would stop being so scummy.

I mean really, bandwagon to L-1? The target is fine but the vote is not.

You said SCUMMY. Not stupid. Backtracking?

Scummy actions from an all but confirmed town = stupid

I might go do that, except I have my own reason for suspecting you and am not interested in others' opinions.

Well, you already said here that Navy made a lot of good points. So in a sense, you did agree with him. Now, all of a sudden, you don't care what he has to say?

I skimmed the points but didn't comment on them. I never said I didn't agree with them. I just said that I'd rather use my own reasons and care less about others. Don't misrep me.

I don't think anyone in their right minds would have voted FG after the pile of votes that had just been tossed on him.

You don't know that for sure.

Yes, I do.

Fair enough, but then you're not getting the full story, so your evidence can easily be wrong. And it is.

I'll look for other things that support my current case eventually. I don't think I am wrong.

Then think again.

[Parama]

Scummy actions from an all but confirmed town = stupid

Scummy actions from anyone not confirmed = scummy

You're backtracking here.

Well you can continue to think that but you'd be wrong.

I skimmed the points but didn't comment on them. I never said I didn't agree with them. I just said that I'd rather use my own reasons and care less about others. Don't misrep me.

Go read Navy's wall and point out his "good points", please.

@Anti: So, continue your scumhunting. What do you draw from my response to your question?

This question bothers me because he's essentially been asking for other people to scumhunt while only saying that he doesn't know what to think of people and asking questions like this that don't lead anywhere in the end.

Anti, I would have no trouble voting for Doc (or Zang), but for right now, I believe that the lurker can wait.

Funny that you should say that "the lurker can wait," since you said just a post before how much you dislike lurking.

I have a tendency to find lurkers scummier/active posters townier.

Good to keep in mind that this is scumZang.

Concerning Zang, I have not played with him in any past games, so I wouldn't know anything about how he plays.

Because it matters, right?

And how serious are you about the "we should lynch Zang because he's a good scum" comment? Because if that's your only reasoning, that's just silly.

Soft-defending scumZang.

Antiximo - Leaning town due to his massive wall-o-text.

How quickly we change opinions when it is convenient...

However, the fact that FG isn't offering any real suspicions (that I've seen) and just defends himself with some minor AtE and deflection is starting to piss me off a bit, because he's not helping the town at all by doing this. I'm actually starting to reconsider my stance on FG.

But...but FG is your tunneling victim's target.

FakeGod, I want your top suspects with reasoning to support your suspicions, ASAP.

You shouldn't ask people to do things you won't do.

Also, if you could list your suspicions at the moment, I'd enjoy that.

You're doing it again!

FG may be starting to seem more townie with the gamble idea, but it doesn't affect my view of Fugi positively or negatively, for reasons that I'll disclose at a later time.

That makes no sense and you were only saying this because you thought Espeon was going to be lynched so you wanted to let go of the things that you said to make people join your wagon in the first place.

DocPotter. Do you have any suspicions? Any comments on Espeon's claim? Any game content at all?

You're doing it again, asking people weak questions to make yourself look better and asking people to give lots of suspicions when you have given only one real one for the whole day.

Personally, I have a neutral read on Fugi moreso than a scumread. I haven't seen Fugi make himself scummy on purpose before (iirc), but that doesn't tell me anything either. I'm okay with broom/Zang lynches at the moment, too.

A neutral read, again. Really. And you're ok with broom and Zang lynches since when? Since they were popular.

Espeon targeting Zang is an easy fakeprotect idea, being that since Zang flipped scumblocker, it'd make sense. Plus the fact that Espeon wasn't NKed, but that's scum-WIFOM.

I'm not sure what to think here. Don't feel like lynching him today. If he's still alive tomorrow, then I think I know who I'm voting.

Vote: FakeGod

Here he "doesn't know what to think," about Espe, then says he would be willing to lynch him later, but decides to vote for the same person Espeon is voting for. All things he has done so many times before.

So basically, he never takes stances despite asking everyone else to, asks small, meaningless questions to appear to be scumhunting more than his tunnel target, and even manages to fit a little buddying in here. All amazingly town things to do.

These are the ones that I especially agree with.

I still like my theory better.

Oh, and Parama, mind giving some insight as to your stances on the players left?

You're doing it again!

Scum: Slaxx, Pie
Neutral: Nvay
Town: FakeGod, Brandi, DocPotter (claim for which I have no reason to doubt)

So basically half the people left are townies and there's a 66% chance of lynching right. And lo and behold I have two scum reads.

Y'know what, this is appropriate.

Vote: Pie

[Parama]

Found a few links to Zang, from D1.

ISO 24 - he builds a case on Zang, yet leaves his vote on FG for being "obvscum". Coincidentally, FG happened to be a leading choice for the wagons that day.

ISO 36 - read the bottom of this (last two quotes). He's fairly obviously defending Zang. Zang flipped scum. Two posts later, he throws some suspicion on him for good measure.

49 - casting some suspicion on him for good measure, then throws in who he's voting (Espeon) and FG (the easiest person to FoS in this game at this point, imo) into his suspicions list to hide it.

ISO 51 - throws a lot of suspicion on Zang, but goes with broomhead instead. Didn't want to bus your partner so early on, Parama?

I vote for who is scummiest at the time.
First one - Zang wasn't paying attention and was lurking, first is scummy second is null in my book, enough for a FoS. But FG was much scummier at the time.
Second one - Anti set up a ridiculous scumlink and says he's only interested in the flip without actually saying why he found Zang scummy. I did not in any way defend Zang - I merely said Anti was using poor logic in his attacks. And "two posts later" Zang asked a question that I couldn't understand and asked another that I had already answered. Where in that post did I put suspicion on him? Stop lying.
Third one - This got Zang to slip up, his next post contained everything I was accusing him of. I was waiting for an Espe response because he had yet to respond and pressure is good. And FG was my lynch candidate from the start of D1. I freaking built the case on him. Did I not have valid reason to FoS? Your accusations are reaching, and reaching HARD.
Fourth one - Did you stop to think that maybe, JUST MAYBE, I found broomhead scummier? I spent a lot of time on both in that post, and broomhead came out looking worse. So I voted broom over Zang. Though I admit that Zang disappearing for the rest of the day should have thrown up flags.

Please try harder, since as it stands you're failing. You cast aside the notion that all my suspicions are valid simply for the purposes of your case.

[Parama]

Nice countervote, Parama.

You had it coming.

I can fetch my defenses to those points, or you can find them yourself.

Like I said, I'm putting less faith in Nvay's case than in my reasons.

If by "you're doing it again", you mean me not giving my suspicions, I already listed mine in my first post of the day. Coincidentally, we have the same town reads. Slaxx is neutral, Navy is scum.

It's asking others' reads without giving your own.

And the town reads are no coincidence. Though I'm glad that we can agree that there's no need to ever mention Brandi, FG, or Doc as scum in this thread ever again.

[Parama]

1. So, coincidentally, the person who was an easy wagon was more suspicious for you?

I HAD A FREAKING CASE ON HIM. IS THAT NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU?

2. You were still defending Zang in that post.

It was between me and Anti, Zang was the subject yes but I didn't do anything that you can really call a "defense".

4. You voted broom over Zang because Zang was your buddy and you didn't feel like bussing him.

No, you're not listening,

Theory/Question to all: Why would Zang have been sent, as the roleblocker, to submit the kill on Anti?

2 theories - there are only 2 mafia and the other is GF or something more useful than roleblocker, or Zang was going to get lynched anyways the next day anyways (I was going to do this but then he went and died).

You guys post like mad, and I keep losing the thread of the conversation.

Vote: Parama

for now for leading two mislynches

Slaax, Brandi, DocP better get in here and start talking.

Read the arguments then, Pie's logic is wrong and full of misrepresentation, especially the supposed "links".

[Parama]

The arguments didn't make sense, I point out when people don't make sense.

Also yes you are looking to much into it. I gave my theories, I don't care to come up with better ones because it's irrelevant.

[Parama]

Also I just noticed the lack of vote counting

unvote, vote: Pie

[Parama]

Because you're attacking the reasoning with no good reason. I just said the reasoning makes no sense, you're not even saying anything similar.

[Parama]

Oh good someone here is making sense.
But FG is town and Pie is scum.

[Parama]

Parama, I defended that point saying that lynching someone because they are good at scum is silly. It didn't have anything to do with Zang. Even you have to admit that's a silly reason for a serious vote.

...then I think I misread your post.

You defended your point saying that it didn't have anything to do with Zang/Anti either, that you were just pointing out the argument.

Yup.

Sound familiar? But you agreed that Navy made a good point, even though both of us are using similar reasoning.

It's different, though I'll admit not by much.

Can I point out to everyone that Navy and Parama both said I was scum after I either voted them or said they were good lynches? Does no one else notice this or does no one care?

Maybe we both see good reason for you to be scum, then.

Brandi, FG is town due to the quick wagon on him D2. Plus, I'm just not seeing him as scum. More newbtown-y.

^this^

[Parama]

Well it helps that your case is full of misrep and false accusations and all. That's part of the case if I didn't make it obvious.

[Parama]

I want to hear from Slaxx, FG, and DP because all are doing next to nothing right now.

[Parama]

Vote Pie before you leave please. He's scum.

[Parama]

Mods: Requesting Prods on Slaxx and DocPotter

[Parama]

Mods: Requesting Prods on Slaxx and DocPotter

^they're definitely due by now, it's been over 3 days

[Parama]

Parama, stop telling the mod how to do his job.

Tell Slaxx and DP to start playing this game.

Also, a lot of Brandi's case seems to be stuff Nvay did after I made a case on him, repeating some of the same stuff I called him out for.

I could see Navy-scum (I have said this in the past <_<) but I'm seeing Pie-scum to be more likely.

[Parama]

Slaxx, I understand the Me/Brandi argument is confusing but it boils down to differing definitions of the same term that lead to confusion. And it ends up being a complete waste of time :/

Just in case you were wondering why it suddenly disappeared.

[Parama]

Buddying. If you read the argument you should have seen this.

[Parama]

Start here and read the next few posts of me and Brandi's to see why the argument was a waste of time.

[Parama]

Also you pointed out 3 Brandi quotes.
1st one... is 100% true. You need to explain to other townies why so-and-so is scum, not to the scum themselves.

2nd one... no clue what you're trying to say there tbh.

3rd one... says Brandi doesn't care about meta, which gets d(''d) in my book

[Parama]

A player only has one vote.

[Parama]

Oh great.
I would tell Slaxx to switch his vote to Pie based on his statement "If you haven't figured it out yet, I think IP and FG are scum together", but that would be wrong because his case requires FG to be scum as well. Sigh.
Slaxx, read Pie in ISO please so you can see why he's a much better lynch than Nvay, FG, or me.
Also, we currently have 3 wagons with 2 people on them, which means we're not going to get anywhere unless one wagon breaks down. And I'm staying right where I am, thank you very much.

[Parama]

FG, there is no excuse to active lurk.

[Parama]

Wait InflatablePie. You said

I could switch to Navy, as long as we agree that Parama goes tomorrow.

To me this makes you seem like you just want to lynch whoever you can get a wagon on. Surely Parama's flip would help determine the next lynch? Why so deadset on these two?

Yeah Slaxx this is kinda exactly why Pie is scum if you haven't figured it out yet. He's up for ANY lynch. He just wants to make sure the lynch isn't him.

[Parama]

Rawr. People are way too fast to accept reports at face value.

^this is way too true, unfortunately.

[Parama]

http://z10.invisionfree.com/ScoreHeroMa ... &p=1745384 is a great example

[Parama]

Um, I think you guys are misreading the statement. x_x

[Parama]

Thanks, now give me a post containing actual content as a gift please.

[Parama]

It's not just you.

[Parama]

That post deserves a Captain Obvious™ badge.

1. 3 PR and 3 Scum is the standard for minis.
2. Yes obviously people will be at L-1 and obviously wagons will disintegrate.
3. Yes we will be hammering on Piescum today thank you very much

[Parama]

I think that what's happening right now is the exact opposite of the start of D2. There, he got wagoned to L-1 almost instantly, which is signs of a scum-driven wagon on a townie. I really don't see him being scum.

'tis funny because your slot is the one that got him away from L-1 earlier <.<

[Parama]

I don't see that being true at all. My case on Pie has nothing to do with FG.

[Parama]

Now give a good reason why you're voting me over Pie. You haven't done so yet and it's frustrating because you have no apparent reason to be voting me other than your dichotomy theory, which is not reason alone to vote anybody.

[Parama]

Townies lead mislynches too.

[Parama]

Also considering you were on both lynch wagons that's incredibly hypocritical. Stop acting scummy please, if you keep it up the wagon on you might well form again. I can't fault Brandi and Slaxx for their suspicions on you because nothing you have done has given me a town read on you - it's what others have done that bugs me.

[Parama]

THE PROBLEM. You agreed with my logic and voted. Leading a wagon requires other people to follow it - you're putting too much faith in the first vote, the same way people put too much faith in the hammer. All votes count equally, you know.

I don't think I've ever seen a worse reason to vote someone than what you're doing right now.

[Parama]

FG - If people hadn't agreed with my cases then the two townies wouldn't have been lynched. Just because I was the first to call them out does not mean their lynch is entirely my fault - heck, I'm only responsible for 14.3% of the broom lynch and 20% of the Fugi lynch.

[Parama]

I put up a Nvay case at the start of D2 - switched to Fugitive when he started acting like scum.

[Parama]

Wow I can't believe I missed this before. Guys, Pie just massively contradicted himself here.

The problem I realized just now with my theory, is that if one of Parama/Navy is scum, the other is town. They're both on my wagon - they wouldn't risk doing this as a scumteam.

Nvay and Parama can't both be scum, he says. So if he finds me to be scummiest, then that means Nvay is town in his opinion. But...

So. Since I'm not getting any backing, except from FG, on my Paramawagon...

Unvote, Vote: Navy

. Navy's been bandwagoning all game, plus his case on me was full of taking things out of context and attacking me for not being sure. Upon looking back, I think he's the better lynch for today after all.

So you switch solely because you're not getting anyone to vote with you? And to the other person in your dichotomy? You have been on my case all day, and by your theory if I'm scum then Nvay is town.
And then when it's convenient for you (aka when you can get a bigger wagon going) you switch to Nvay. Which means you now think I'm townier. And oh look you provide reasons now that you're switching. And oh looking back you were totally wrong and Nvay is the better lynch even though Parama has been the best lynch all day.

Really. I can't believe you're making yourself so obvious. If you guys don't understand how Pie basically slipped here then I don't think I'll be able to convince anybody because THIS is a big deal. THIS is a huge contradiction.

[Parama]

There's also a chance that you're both scum. It's minor, though.

^so guys if Nvay flips scum he's going to go back on his previous statement and try to get me lynched with this kind of statement as well. Hmm, maybe Pie's bussing.

And cry WIFOM all you want, but if I was scum then why would I draw so much attention to myself by switching now, especially with two votes already on me as is?

WIFOM!
Okay, for real, it's because you need to be on the "hot" wagon competing with yours in order to prevent yourself from being lynched.

[Parama]

I highly doubt Pie is self-voting :/ (he's on Nvay)

[Parama]

Mod: I'm going to be V/LA from 6/6 to 6/9.

[Parama]

FFS DO SOMETHING GUYS

*sigh*
I have nothing to add at this point and this game is suffering from inactivity. We can lynch Pie for a scum lynch or we can sit around and do nothing for another week and waste time. I don't approve of a Nvay wagon over a Pie wagon and I don't expect to change my mind in the near future.

[Parama]

I'm not sure Nvay is town, and I never said this.
I just said that I'd rather be lynching you over Nvay, because I feel you to be more likely scum. Nvay isn't a town read but I'm only going to lynch my #1 scum read.

[Parama]

I would wait for someone to get it into your head that I'm V/LA since I AM and this is probably the only time I will be on until Wednesday.

And I just have to say...
Pie is still the better wagon.

[Parama]

I read Brandi's case.

...

Goddammit. This is tricky. Definitely makes more sense than any other cases... but I like the idea of Piescum so very much, and I don't see them being scum together. *sigh*

Regardless, keepin' my vote bros. If only because Nvay is at L-1.

FG I will lynch next you if you hammer Nvay before he responds to the post and flips town. On the opposite end, if Nvay gets prodded I'm just going to say "screw it" and drop the hammer myself because then I know that he's intentionally avoiding posting (I have a rough idea of how often Nvay is around, and he doesn't usually disappear for 3 days at a time without explanation as far as I know).

[Parama]

...
POST SOMETHING, PEOPLE!

/notchangingyet

[Parama]

I change my mind; I'm going to let Parama hammer when he chooses to do so.

I am now officially not hammering Nvay regardless of any circumstances.

I need to reconsider my FG read.

[Parama]

I want Nvay to respond before anybody hammers. This is why you shouldn't hammer.
You trying to give the hammer to me gives bad vibes. So now I'm not going to hammer at all.

[Parama]

FG doesn't want responsibility for the lynch in case Nvay flips town. That's what I'm taking. Of course it's somewhat WIFOM but I'm free to assume, right?

[Parama]

You want me to hammer him without a defense? GJ buddy. That's like, scummy.

[Parama]

This is silly.

About to hammer Navy.

Parama ain't gonna hammer Navy, Slaax you up for the job?

I rather have Pie or Parama lynch today, and if either of them go L-1, I'm hammering.

POINT OUT THE PROBLEM

[Parama]

haha you guys are all absolutely

terrified

of making a mistake.

Then why don't you hammer, hypocrite? It's what you said that's making me withhold the hammer at this point.

@Slaax: he's my neutral read too. I just don't see why you or Parama are so afraid of lynching a neutral read.

Would rather lynch a scum read tbh.

@Parama: Navy didn't post. In this case, I said that means hammer. 'Cept certain people like you misunderstood and overreacted, which delayed the whole process.

You don't understand why I'm not hammering, then.

I bet if I were to hammer Navy and he flips town, then you (doesn't matter if you are scum or not) would try to get me lynched tomorrow. Am I right?

No, if I used logic like that
1. I'd be a hypocrite since I led two wagons
2. We'd lose because Pie is scum

Your last few posts tried to portray me badly by making assumptions about what I said (for example, your words gave me a strong impression that you think I encouraged lynching Navy without giving him a chance to defend himself, which isn't true. I continually asserted that I rather lynch you or Pie today, and that Navy need to come defend himself).

This is silly.

About to hammer Navy.

Um, yes, you were willing to hammer without a defense. And then when you chickened out, I figured that you're going to HAVE to be the one to hammer. And you were willing for a Nvay lynch. Stop lying.

Of course, all this actions so far would make sense if you were scum.

Wow. Attacking an attacker. Lovin' this.

o btw, I bet you were going to mention how I didn't hammer Navy even though I said I would if he didn't defend himself in your next post. I'm just giving the poor guy bit more time to come defend himself.

Giving him time to defend himself is good. But you DIDN'T want this at first and now you DO want it. What changed?

I also bet you're going to be bit more emotional in your next post, as well as how you think I'm scum. That's just my predictions on your next planned moves, which upon reading this post, you don't have to follow.

You don't understand how I play at all, then.

If you're scum, this is pointless but......

In response to 1024, the first quote is when I was about to hammer Navy because he didn't come to defend himself.

...

I'm just giving the poor guy bit more time to come defend himself.

*headdesk*

The second quote is when we had the whole talk about who's gonna hammer and what's gonna happen. You said you're not gonna hammer Navy, so I asked whether Slaax was going to. He said no.

...

This is silly.

About to hammer Navy.

You're going to hammer Nvay. You said it yourself. Nobody else is going to hammer Nvay. If you don't hammer Nvay, Nvay will not be lynched. And I wouldn't really mind that. If we can get the Pie wagon going again that would be nice.

Okay then.
SCUM: Pie, FakeGod
NEUTRAL: Slaxx, Nvay
TOWN: Brandi, DP's replacement

[Parama]

First thing that came into my mind: wow, I wish I could quote as well.

You can click the quote button .-.

Why do you spell Nvay? I don't get it. ???

Scorehero joke.

@Slaax: at least I was willing to hammer until bunch of people went O GOD NO

I didn't say I wasn't fine with you hammering, I said I wasn't fine with you hammering before Nvay posted.

Parama, I have no idea how you play, but you have no idea how I play either. Bet you're going to tell me I play really as bad as town when this is over.

I don't give a damn about your meta anyways.

I don't like how Parama's trying to force me into a position where I have to hammer Navy. Instead I'm going to give my vote to him this round, and if he's wrong I'm using this to lynch him tomorrow. Fair enough?

If you prefer a Nvay lynch over a Pie lynch, then why are you giving your vote to the wagon you, technically, should be opposing? And if that's going to be your only reason for lynching me... bwahahaha

Vote: InflatablePie

because Parama's sure about this and I can blame him if he's wrong.

No, you can blame yourself for voting on a wagon you don't believe in. If you're not serious about your vote then I really don't want your vote.

Slaax I leave everything in your hands.

unvote

until FG unvotes.

[Parama]

What is this I don't even.

You support a Pie lynch, yet you want to push the blame on me if he's lynched and flips town. That means you really don't believe in your vote. I didn't lie at all. You're the one telling lies. I know what you've been saying but it's not what you really want.

I don't want your vote unless you're actually serious about it. That's why I unvoted - I don't want you on the wagon I support most if it isn't a wagon you believe in. Get off the wagon and I'll get back on.

I bet this doesn't even make sense to anyone else but it makes perfect sense to me so whatever.

[Parama]

@FG: Why is pie and Parama still your top suspects yet you said you agreed with my case earlier? Are you just going to suspect everybody or what?

Okay, this is exactly my point. I wish I could describe what I mean this easily x_x

Also Brandi what puts Slaxx in your scum reads? Just wonderin' because when I had him in my scum reads you had him in neutral and now you have him in scum while I have him in neutral and I don't see what he's done to get a scummier read from you considering he's been getting townier IMO :/

[Parama]

BTW Slaxx told me why he replaced out and I don't think it's something that needs to be said in-thread.
Anyways, gg guys. Obviously my common sense goes out the window after 9 PM <.< Scum would've won this otherwise.
The Parama Plan:
D3: lynch Nvay (I didn't have Pie as confirmed town so I kinda wanted Nvay dead but I had already backed away from the hammer and wasn't going to do it again)
N3: Kill Slaxx, hope DP tracks me (but he flaked)
D4: Parama vs. DP's report - dunno who would've been lynched out of the two but it was irrelevant
N4: if game's still going on, traitor kills DP, hopefully wins the game

But noooooo

[Parama]

Also no I did not at any time think Pie was traitor. GJ. <_<

[Parama]

TRAITOR IS THE WORST ROLE EVER

FIRST ROLEBLOCKER HITS BOMB

THEN PARAMA GETS MODKILLED

AND TO TOP IT OFF, FATE REPLACES IN

NO IDEA HOW MAD I WAS/AM

GOD ****ING DAMNIT

;_;

+we almost killed you N1 <_<
TBH didn't like the setup, even without modkilling there's the chance that town would only have to lynch right once to win, and scum only had a single PR.