Mini 963: Furry Mafia (Game over!)

[Fugitive]

Vote: FakeGod

100% scum - I guarantee it.

[Fugitive]

Vote: FakeGod

100% scum - I guarantee it.

Is this your RVS vote or do you have something for show-and-tell, too? I can't tell.

It was my early read on him.

I don't like your play either, Pie. You're second on my scum list.

[Fugitive]

I don't like your play either, Pie. You're second on my scum list.

Is it the

scars?

new avatar? I'm thinking of changing mine every game or so...

That was posted before your new avatar. Like my new one btw? In the spirit of this game.

It's your over eagerness to seem helpful and question people while posting no real content and contributing hardly anything. My vote still stands on FakeGod, though.

[Fugitive]

Meh, Sorry I'm not posting a lot. Lot's of stuff is going on, it's my birthday weekend (some people in this thread can attest to the truth of that), but I assure you I'm keeping up with reading.

I don't have time to make very long thought out posts (yet), but I still like my vote on FakeGod, and Pie is still my runner up for scum. I'm very interested in the Brandi, Parama back and forth too. If I had to pick a third scum it would be Docpotter.

Like I said, I can post in more detail later, but I am keeping up with happenings.

Just one more thing, real quick. I know buddying is being discussed a lot in this game, and I'd like to explain that real quickly. Pie, Parama, Navy, and myself frequent an IRC channel (we don't talk about the game, promise) and we've played many games together. So when they mention each other a lot, it's because we're familiar with each other, it's not necessarily buddying.

So yeah, will post more starting Monday.

[Fugitive]

Oh hey, I can post again.

Just want to point out one quick thing. Look how quickly FakeGod jumped onto the case against Esp and sided with Pie. I know it seems a bit obvious, but he is new (right?), and new scum, from what I've seen, tend to do this. They take sides with their more experienced scum buddies and jump onto any little case presented against someone.

Quite frankly, the case against Esp that Pie just brought up was simply due to wording. Yes, Esp did downplay his aggression a bit, but people can change their minds. Now, I'm not by any means defending Esp, he's got a few bleeps on my scumdar, but what's being discussed right now is ridiculous.

I'm liking my Fake-Pie scum team more and more, if not only for Fake giving Pie away. If Fake flips scum Pie has some explaining to do.

Lastly thing: lol@lynching someone who could be good scum.

[Fugitive]

I agree completely, but I'd rather noose up FG because of a buddying suspect and stronger suspicion, on my part, of being scum. If he flips town then I'd like to look at Esp closer, if he flips scum then Pie. I feel we stand more to gain by his lynch.

[Fugitive]

@Fakegod - You really want to know what I was asking you? I'm asking you to help town, and do it now. Stop defending your own buttocks or parroting and legitimately help.

Yes, I really want to know what you were asking me. (shakes head)

That shouldn't be a case in any situation. So you are intentionally writing weirdly worded questions? Because I really had no idea what you were trying to tell me.

and have you seen my vote and the reasoning behind it? And what do you mean you want me to talk? I've been very active in the game! and I'm parroting? I only asked what in the world you asked me in post 250, because it was worded poorly. And yes, I already admitted that this is my second game in the forums. I never asked you to consider me differently because of it. No need to put me on a pedestal, sheesh.

I like how you don't heed Anti's advice at all and this post is still just a giant defense of yourself. >_>

[Fugitive]

I like how you don't heed Anti's advice at all and this post is still just a giant defense of yourself. >_>

I'm at L-2 (or soon to be). People get defensive when they're at L-2.

Fugi, state your case against me, so that I may give you a response.

Good idea, I'll do a PBP tomorrow and state my main case.

[Fugitive]

If this Pokemon here wasn't...

Is that a reference to me? If so, I don't understand the following part as I have no been doing that. If not, then I still don't understand because I have no idea who or what you're talking about.

[Fugitive]

I don't like anti's vote on Doc. Yes, doc is up there for my scum candidates, but it's a safe-vote that he knows won't affect the game or give away something bad. Honestly, Anti's play is very telling of scum, and he even seems to be getting a bit flustered. I didn't like his follow up vote on FakeGod either, after I made a small case about him.

I still would prefer a FakeGod lynch though. I think we can't really learn much from an Esp lynch, and if he flips town then Day 1 was worthless. I at least have buddying tells from Fake. If Fake flips scum, for example, then I'm pretty sure Parama, and broom are town and that Pie is scum. If he flips town then I'd be willing to go after Esp, Anti, or Doc. I'll make a stronger case on FG soon.

[Fugitive]

so I asked my 8 ball whether Parama is maf.
It said yes 5 times in a row, forcing me to re-RVS.

Unvote: Broom

Vote: Parama

In context, this was actually the 5th vote on Parama. He switched his RVS and, if you believe him, specifically asked his 8-ball about Parama. Then, claimed it was just an RVS vote to hide the bandwagoning. This was the post that first made me vote for him.

Wow! This is fast-paced!!!

@Espeonage: I like your style. Concise and decisive.

@Antiximo: yeeeah I thought I saw you there...

@InPie: I never stop random voting. Never ever.

This is the next post that caught my attention. I can't say decisively that he's buddying, but it's clearly complimenting other players for no real apparent or strategic reason other than to get on their good side. Notice he does talk to Pie, my suspect for his buddy.

Hey I just realized that FoS works in weird ways.
For example, if I

FoS

ed everyone except Fugitive, who did I really FoSed?

Fugitive obviously. Strange, eh?

@InPie: I <3 Pikachu!

@Brandi: I like your style. Sophisticated and well-reasoned.

@Parama: It's cool.

Unvote

and now your reaction is......?

Alright, I think I have a rough sketch of people I'll be playing with. It's an honor to be playing with you folks

*takes a bow*

but I don't think I'll be posting until more people (like that broom guy I rved) shows up.

This is his very next post. After I'm the first to vote for him and bring up any case at all, he immediately claims that he's already FoS'd me and no one else. He's still talking nonsensically to other players, and even unvotes Parama when called on the massive bandwagon trying to shove it off as a reaction test. This post solidified my vote.

@Esp: Understood. I'll immediately stop trying to buddy with every single person in the game. Not that I think I'm buddying. If you haven't noticed, all my posts so far only created enemies not buddies, wouldn't you agree?

Caving to other players request, then denial that you were doing, in the first place, what you were requested to stop doing. You were buddying too, as I've proven in 2 of these quotes, so your denial shows me that you know you were doing something wrong, acknowledgment that you knew it was wrong, AND then lying about doing it.

***FG doesn't post for a few pages here***

These next series of quotes are solely defenses to people's cases. Post 137, I find an adequate defense of Parama's case against him.

You know, Brandi, I can't believe you actually bought what Parama said.

For a player who talked about a lot about buddying, you buddy up pretty fast.

I tried buddying with Esp? By how, complimenting "I like your style"?
Unless Paramas acting really stupid/gullible, there's no way Parama or anyone would actually believe that I'm trying to buddy up. The fact that I wasn't serious was even more visible by my post afterwards in response to you, when I said exact opposite of what I said just a moment ago. (Concise vs. sophisticated, decisive vs. well-supported)

This is post 140. This is where we breach the point of over defensiveness. It's one thing to defend yourself, like he did in 137, it's another to almost freak out and "I can't believe you..." or deflect his own actions "you buddy up pretty fast."

@Navy:Please tell me how serious I was when I posted what you read. And when you start to accuse of "wasting space" or "creating distraction", I'll remind you that we've started what, a day ago? Sure, I'll admit that I love making conversation in the game of mafia. It's a social game. And before you accuse me of not helping town by these empty posts, convince me how you helped the town during time the period when I was posting those posts.

I HATE this response. When people are called out on not actually helping the town, 90% of the time they turn around on who said that to them and throw the same question in their face. It's a total deflection of responsibility and avoidance of the question.

Post 146. Another great example of over-defensiveness. Though he responded to Parama fine the first time, people should know Parama never gives up. When Parama kept pushing FG lost it. This is as big a scum tell as anything he's done. "Unvoting Random Vote without a reason is illegal now?" is my favorite line of the post. Oh, legality.

His next few posts are almost useless to take apart and analyze. Post 151, 154, 172, 179 are all over defensive and just responses, usually to Parama, that justify why FG should be town and nothing more.

--- I'd like to stop here and point out something FG does that bothers me a lot. He often stops in the middle of his defenses and asks "So restate your case or explain why I'm scum." At first, it seems okay, but if you look deeper into the question it gets rather annoying. It's as if he's not paying attention, as if he had just proved to everyone in his defenses that all points against him made him an inadequate scum target and now people need new reasons to find him scummy. ---
Note: He just did that to me, which is why I'm making this PBPA.

RVS was over somewhere between post 29 and 33.

^^^ this guy is a smart guy, he knows how to play mafia.

So.....I take it that you don't like RVS very much?

@Esp: You recently unvoted me and said I was VI (which I'm guessing stands for Village Idiot). How does this fit in with your previous case of me and Brandi being scumbuddies, and where does this put Brandi in your eyes? and may I ask why you changed your views on me? I've been rereading what I said between the time of your vote and unvote, but I'm not sure what caused you to change your mind so suddenly, especially since you have stayed fairly consistent entire game (with the me + Brandi theory) until that point.

Vote: Espeonage

but this is an unfair vote because for some people I couldn't even get a good read due to their lack of posts

Here is the jump onto the other wagon and acknowledgment that it's a poor vote. Lol'd.

My reasoning behind my vote:

I had town vibes from Esp until his unvote and sudden shift in view, where he used to be very consistent throughout the entire game, and not anymore.

Being inconsistent isn't necessarily bad, but for a player who's been very consistent to suddenly change his views without giving much reasons, I'd say something's up.

Now he realizes he voted without giving reasons... oops. Also, inconsistency =/= scum-tell. Just sayin'.

Post 238 is where the Pie buddying starts. This is different from the other, previous buddying. He's not going off-topic and complimenting Pie, and such, he's adopting Pie's viewpoints as his own. It also seems as if he's trying to establish himself on the front of the Esp lynch, and draw attention away from his suspicions.

Um guys, I'm town. Please don't lynch me.

Oh, okay. I'll just throw out all my suspicions based on this rock-solid, well established defense.

Which brings us to where he asked me to do this. I agreed. And now I'm about to hit the submit button.

[Fugitive]

EBWOP: This is why my vote stays on FakeGod and I strongly urge the town to lynch FakeGod.

If he flips scum, I have strong town and scum candidates.

If he flips town, I have strong scum and town candidates.

[Fugitive]

well if you are urging a vote to lynch, I would suggest sharing those ideas before the day ends, because you might be the night kill with a 'plan' like that one. A vanilla townie has no good reasons to have secrets (or none that I know)

Also: nice case against FG, you've done a good job of convincing me, though I don't like how it comes just a few posts after he says he'll be gone for the weekend. I would like to know what you are thinking in terms of if he is scum then you suspect _____ and if he is town then you suspect _____

Good point.

If he flips scum:

-My top scum candidates are: DocPotter and InflatablePie
-People I was suspicious of that are more likely town are: Espeonage and Anti
-People I think are town are: Parama, Fugitive (I don't want to give away too many town reads, as it helps scum more than town if I were to die, but Parama is here for a reason)
-People with a neutral read: broom, Navy, Fate, Zang, Brandi

If he flips town:

-My top scum candidates are Espeonage and Anti
-People I was suspicious of that become more likely town: InflatablePie
-People I think are town are: Fugitive (>_>)
-Neutral reads: broom, Navy, Fate, Zang, Brandi, Parama, DocPotter

---

Lastly, it did come a few posts after he said he'll be gone a few days, but if you notice I promised (on page 11, I think) that I would be doing this PBPA before he decided he should be gone for a week.

[Fugitive]

@fugitive: Your first four quotes are my RVS. Sorry if I wasn't clear in my defense to Parama, but yes, I was just joking around in those posts. And the 8 ball is a lie. <gasp>

Well, RVS does mean something. That was a huuuuge bandwagon vote followed by an unvote after pressure. RVS isn't completely random.

"I can't believe..." was in more tone than OH NO I'M GONNA DIE tone, but I guess I came off as more extreme tone to you.

This is a defense that is useless. Your tone cannot be proven one way or another, all we have to go off of is your words. And those words were pretty scummy to me.

Well, the reason I acknowledged that vote on Esp was a poor vote because some people (cough fugi cough) didn't post much at all. (at the time I posted anyways) I couldn't get any read on them, which was why I thought it was unfair.

You've done it again. You're trying to deflect your scumminess onto other people, this time me. Voting for someone while acknowledging that it's a bad vote, FOR ANY REASON, is bad.

And yeah, I forgot to include the reasoning behind my vote after my posted. That was my bad, but I corrected myself in time I hope?

You only corrected yourself after being called on not giving a reason. So no, it wasn't in time.

[Fugitive]

I don't like anti's vote on Doc. Yes, doc is up there for my scum candidates, but it's a safe-vote that he knows won't affect the game or give away something bad. .

TO say that doc doesn't give information isn't true.

Also, Fugitive, the idea of one vote entirely leading a lynch is exaggerating. While my vote is on Docpotter, while the vote does on a larger extent mean I want him dead, I also want him to talk, and give information to the greatest of his ability (just like I did to fakegod)

Please don't put words in my mouth. I neither said nor implied either of these things.

[Fugitive]

FG, I call buddying you adding no original thoughts of your own and solely agreeing with Pie. I explained that too.

I'm not calling you attacking Esp buddying, I'm calling you attacking Esp with Pie's reasons buddying.

[Fugitive]

I can't change your mind Fugi, but here's more responses.

Yes you can. I like your last two responses actually. That doesn't mean you're not my top lynch candidate, but I'm starting to see other candidates being good lynches too.

I don't like the fact that you can't call out your top 3 suspects though. I find that's only hard for scum to not call up 3 suspects. I could list my top 3 at any time without hesitation.

[Fugitive]

Not that I recall, care to elaborate which part? There were 4 points in that post.

[Fugitive]

EBWOP: It seems I have, I apologize. You weren't called out on not giving reasons.

[Fugitive]

Yes.

[Fugitive]

Lie: (also called prevarication, falsehood) is a type of deception in the form of an

intentional

untruthful statement.

No, I did not lie.

I read them carefully. I opted out of my original strategy for responding to post 310. Thus, 2 posts.

[Fugitive]

No, I read everything he said, Parama. I told you, I opted out of a strategy.

[Fugitive]

@FG - It was part of the strategy. I'll explain when I'm done putting it into place.

@Parama - Yes.

[Fugitive]

EBWOP: I see the confusion. There are 2 strategies/plans of action. One I opted out of and one that I'm currently implementing.

[Fugitive]

Fugitive please bus Espeon now.

Zang an espeon vote would go a long way with your content problem.

I'm not lynching likely town when I have almost 100% scum.

[Fugitive]

As far as I can tell, no on has presented a compelling case on Esp. The only thing I've heard is about inconsistencies, and possibly backtracking. Inconsistencies =/= scum-tells. I mean, sometimes they do, but I'm not convinced the inconsistencies that Esp has been "caught" under are scum-tells. Being absent from posting is not a scum-tell either, which seems to have prompted a few votes on Esp. I suppose "likely town" is a bit of an exaggeration, but with someone like FG playing, I know who I prefer the lynch on.

[Fugitive]

What would you do if FG flipped town and Espeon flipped scum?

Well, then I'd be in trouble, wouldn't I?

---

I'm solidified (even more so) in the fact that FG is scum now, though. My tactic was to play as scummy as possible. He caught me lying, I "argued" with him illogically, I've done about nothing right, and yet he doesn't find me suspicious. He merely finds me a townie that lies. He hasn't even FoS'd me after all of that. Don't you think a townie that I was gunning after, with all that just happened, would have at least FoS'd me?

He merely defends himself, and provides nothing useful to the town. Because he's scum, and he can't do anything but defend himself, even when the arguments against him are balls. And he provides nothing useful because he doesn't know how to scum-hunt as a scum.

FakeGod is scum and needs to be lynched now. Yes, I really mean almost 100% certainty.

There, strategy explained.
---

HoS means "Hand of Suspicion." It's basically an FoS but stronger.

[Fugitive]

1) Ok

2) I didn't put words in your mouth. You must think I'm at least more town than scum if I'm not FoS'd or voted for, now you're putting words in my mouth. (You lied).

3) My logic was that you didn't find me scummy because you know I'm not scum. The fact that you do nothing to help the town was just a point I made. You're misconstruing my case against you.

4) Newb mafia don't usually do anything but defend themselves when they fall under suspicion.

Bluff tiemz? Sure, if you flip town, FG, they can lynch me.

---

@Pie - I will not jump on an Esp wagon when I have scum.

[Fugitive]

btw I am liking Fugitive as town.

Why?

[Fugitive]

lol'd. Firstly, I'm suppose to prove that you think that I'm more town than mafia. Thanks for assigning an impossible task.

Now, second order of business. Esp is clearly my second candidate for scum now. I think he's scum, possibly even more likely than FG. BUT, we stand to gain less from his lynch, so I'd still like an FG lynch today.

Before I sign that "agreement" I'd like you to make an adjustment. If I'm lynched first and flip town, I will not hold the town to lynching you. Once that change is made I'll "sign" it.

[Fugitive]

EBWOP: That whole last post is to FG. Pie and Esp interrupted the flow.

[Fugitive]

No, it's not meaningless because Esp will probably be lynched today, leaving, likely both of us, tomorrow. And my way is much more town friendly.

/signed

[Fugitive]

I'm not sure if those have been used before, but you could be the first.

---

"town friendly" = not forcing the town to do anything. Also, you realize for that agreement to even work the entire town would have to sign it. You can't exactly force them to lynch a certain way.

[Fugitive]

Pie. Why is Espeon's inconsistency over the Fate/Zang thing ground for a lynch, in your eyes? Even if he were to admit his inconsistency.

[Fugitive]

No no, Pie. Okay, why does the fact that Espeon speaking for fate mean that he's scum? The thing you linked is Fate saying basically what you said. I can pose this to him too. Why does it make him scum to contradict himself?

[Fugitive]

It's one of Mastin's Insane Tells (wiki it) and I've found it to be generally true.

You realize they're called "insane" tells because most people regard them as worthless. Like me. Espeonage could be scum, but I wouldn't vote for him, yet, based off of what I've seen no matter what Mastin says.

[Fugitive]

It's one of Mastin's Insane Tells (wiki it) and I've found it to be generally true.

You realize they're called "insane" tells because most people regard them as worthless. Like me. Espeonage could be scum, but I wouldn't vote for him, yet, based off of what I've seen no matter what Mastin says.

Fix'd tags

[Fugitive]

I thought so too, but how can I back down?

Doubt town would follow it anyway.

[Fugitive]

Also, lol'd at 5.5. According to Mastin FG and I are town.

[Fugitive]

*sigh*

It's pretty clear this is going no where unless someone does something.

Unvote

Vote: Espeonage

I've been convinced.

[Fugitive]

There's a Penis of Suspicion.

I forgot about this one. Oh, Scoreheroers.

Inb4ObligatoryParamaPainOfSalvationJoke

[Fugitive]

Actually to be more accurate I'm weak.

What?

[Fugitive]

Actually to be more accurate I'm weak.

What did you mean by this?

I need to stop playing mafia now, it's too late to think. I'll process this claim tomorrow.

[Fugitive]

That's L-2, on FG, Parama. Unless I grossly miscounted, but I triple checked.

Unvote

Vote: FakeGod

This is L-1.

[Fugitive]

I don't really agree with anything of what you said (except the Zang stuff) and you're a bit too intense, Parama.

Since you put so much weight on Mastin's insane tells, why not read this, Parama.

"Caution is a scum tell, where Recklessness is a Town Tell."

Just sayin', according to that I'm town and your unvote is pretty scummy. Broomhead is definitely a safe-vote because he's not in danger of being lynched, that, and I generally find broom pretty pro-town.

I'd be willing to bet, if you're scum, you bussed all your scum-buddies in that scum list too.

To address what I've done so far. Parama, you've even played games where I've made myself scummy before. Remember SHM2? I don't like the way you're reading anyone right now, actually. That, and I'm never scum in forum games so I can't be now. >_>

[Fugitive]

So there's no deadline on this day?

[Fugitive]

Ok. I'm here. You may now ask me about the claim if you so wish. I don't like broom at the moment but I'm not quite sure if tht has a bit of omgus in it. Suffice it to say I am happy with my vote.

That's cool how you jumped on the next target that came under suspicion.

[Fugitive]

were we alive at the same time? Don't remember.

Unless it was a night start game, yes we were alive at the same time at one point.

Being that I replaced in, it's entirely possible we weren't. >_>

And I like Blueberry or Cherry better, myself.

Pie, I don't believe this game has had any replacements. Unless you're talking about a different game... we've all been here since the beginning.

I prefer Pecan and Pumpkin Pie myself.

[Fugitive]

Moar like

LESS FLUFF

MORE FG LYNCH

at least you like Pecan Pie.

This day is boring me now.

[Fugitive]

Still don't have time.
To make it even worse, the other games I signed up for started.
My attention (and time) will be divided between the 3 games.
and like I mentioned before, it seems like I'll be lockdowned during the weekend due to test prep. Sorry.

Meaning he's no use to us.

[Fugitive]

<setting myself up to look bad

again

if the target flips scum>

Just posting to let everyone know my displeasure with the broom lynch - and to make sure we at least get a claim before hammering.

I will not be on this lynch unless I see something that actually convinces me he's scum. I've been getting town reads on broom all game.

</setting myself up to look bad

again

if the target flips scum>

[Fugitive]

unvote

vote: Antiximo

[Fugitive]

it's just ironic, he didn't react the way i wanted him to for dying. (the way i wanted him to being "bah go town or bah go scum)

That's not irony, bro.

Hurry up and flip broom... PLEASE!

[Fugitive]

I KNEW IT. Called Zang as scum.

You've called EVERYONE scum. It's not really surprising Zang was one of the ones you called out.

I need to re-read too, but for now:

Vote: FakeGod

[Fugitive]

If your claim is true, then Zang roleblocked you essentially saving your life from him killing you.

>_____>

If your claim is false, then that's why you're alive.

[Fugitive]

FakeGod and Brandi, anyone?

Those are my top two at the moment. I'm okay with lynching either today.

[Fugitive]

Navy and Pie need to talk more IMO

I can't get reads on either because they lurk so much. Especially Navy.

I wish Brandi would talk more too, but I realize there's extenuating circumstances there.

[Fugitive]

You have time to reread Zang, I just ISO'd him and he didn't even make it to 2 pages of posts. I got almost nothing useful from it. He actually would have been a great Day 1 lynch in retrospect.

[Fugitive]

Yay! Roleblocker down!

This game is my favorite out of the three games I'm in right now.

<3

I will now examine how we voted in the end and compare it to the night's results.

Good luck, Zang posted, what? Like 15 times total...

Guys, Pie is scum. I'll tell you why in a little bit, but I thought it would be good to post this so you know I'm here.

Interesting. I'm getting a neutral read on Pie so I'm eager for your evidence.

[Fugitive]

Unvote

[Fugitive]

(Fugi still needs to explain why he so quickly jumped off the FG wagon after a day's worth of tunneling though).

Because he's town.

[Fugitive]

Yes that was implied by your unvote, and I agree, but that's not exactly the answer I was looking for. Why is he town, in your opinion?

He stopped being scummy.

[Fugitive]

I'm glad you were sated by my ambiguous and safe answers.

Vote: Parama

[Fugitive]

VOTE COUNT

FakeGod (2): InflatablePie, DocPotter
NavyCherub (1): Espeonage
InflatablePie (1): Fate
Not voting (5): Brandi, FakeGod, NavyCherub, Parama, Fugitive

With

9

players alive, it takes

5

players to lynch.

Parama is voting NavyCherub.

[Fugitive]

I'm glad you were sated by my ambiguous and safe answers.

Vote: Parama

You're not going to give me anything better as far as I can tell.

Well sure, but you should have called me on it. Not accepted it.

[Fugitive]

It's all so clear now, I should've noticed it sooner.

unvote, vote: Fugitive

What a revelation! You should have noticed it sooner.

Parama is scum. I don't know why you guys are letting him lead so much.

[Fugitive]

I love how you don't actually respond to my points against you at all.

Your points are nothing to warrant a response. It's a terribly weak case.

I didn't think you'd sink this low.

lol'd. Are you scolding me?

[Fugitive]

I love how you don't actually respond to my points against you at all.

Your points are nothing to warrant a response. It's a terribly weak case.

*terribly accurate
Prove my case is weak then. If you're just going to ignore what I'm saying and blow off my logic then I'm going to ignore every attempted defense of yourself and every failed attack on me.

No need, everyone in here should be able to see that you list of points against me includes nothing that could vaguely resemble a scum-tell. If they can't see that then we have a hopeless town.

You can ignore my non-existent defense of your points against me all you want.

[Fugitive]

What's flailing? I couldn't find a wiki article on it or anything.

[Fugitive]

Parama, 574 and 586 are the same posts I'm referring to that don't hold any actual scum-tells as cases against me.

Parama, I can't be flailing by your definition because I'm not making any cases.

[Fugitive]

He stopped being scummy.

eh, what did I do different? Please explain.

You stopped wagoning.

You defended yourself adequately to all accusations.

You brought up new and helpful points.

You gambled your life for mine.

And the general feel of your posts has been giving me a pro-town vibe now.

[Fugitive]

@Fugitive: I stopped wagoning? I put broomhead at L-1. Isn't that considered wagoning?

It's not wagoning with good reason behind the vote. Flawed logic.

People told me life gamble's idiotic.

It was, insanely idiotic. But it was pro-town idiocy. You've connected idiocy with scum-telling. Which is not the case. flawed logic.

Very inconsistent playing. Because soon as you thought town wouldn't lynch me easily any more, you abandoned my wagon.

What wagon?

"general feel of my posts".......ok now you're running out of things to say.

No, you just misinterpret it. I like my gut feelings, and they tell me you're town. Really bad town, at that, but town.

What new points did I bring up? All I said after d2 began was that I'm going to examine the final vote count, then said Parama is probably town because he insisted on his position as the first one on Broom.

Reread what you said at the end of Day 1. It was fairly quality posting. That is... when you posted. You of all people should know what you said.

TL;DR - Your vote sucks and you're fail town. But town nonetheless.

[Fugitive]

@Fugitive: I stopped wagoning? I put broomhead at L-1. Isn't that considered wagoning?

It's not wagoning with good reason behind the vote. Flawed logic.

People told me life gamble's idiotic.

It was, insanely idiotic. But it was pro-town idiocy. You've connected idiocy with scum-telling. Which is not the case. flawed logic.

Very inconsistent playing. Because soon as you thought town wouldn't lynch me easily any more, you abandoned my wagon.

What wagon?

"general feel of my posts".......ok now you're running out of things to say.

No, you just misinterpret it. I like my gut feelings, and they tell me you're town. Really bad town, at that, but town.

What new points did I bring up? All I said after d2 began was that I'm going to examine the final vote count, then said Parama is probably town because he insisted on his position as the first one on Broom.

Reread what you said at the end of Day 1. It was fairly quality posting. That is... when you posted. You of all people should know what you said.

TL;DR - Your vote sucks and you're fail town. But town nonetheless.

[Fugitive]

Stuffs to respond to! Sorry I was gone all day yesterday.

STOP CALLNG HIM NVAY YOURE NOT FUCKING CLEVER.

Not reading that wall Pie.

Fine with my Fugi vote.

This is an example of terrible posting. No matter what side you're on.

1st line: Misinterpreted something that's inconsequential anyway. Fluff.
2nd line: Refusal to read a post. C'mon. If you're going to play mafia, read. That's the worst thing you can do. It's not even a scum-tell, it's just bad.
3rd line: Bandwagon.

Oh good Fugi brought up his reasons to call FG town. The real question - Why did they take so long? A better one - Has this all happened since the start of Day 2? I highly doubt the answer to the second question is "yes." But since you were still set on an FG wagon then, and you aren't now, you seem to think that his Day 2 actions were enough to change your mind - thus a lot of your points aren't true in the scope of D2.

Parama, you finally brought up a valid and good point, I'm proud of you.

I stuck with FG so long because a little bit of pro-town play doesn't make someone town. BUT, ever since the life gamble he's been looking more and more town. Obviously, I'm not going to call someone town because they do a single town thing, that would be awful play, wouldn't you agree? It was the combination of everything he did from about the middle of Day 1 to Day 2. I voted for him Day 2 to put pressure on him again, because scum slip under pressure. Hell, that's how the whole game gets moving, you vote in RVS to put pressure on people. That's how you find scum. That's why I stuck with FG into Day 2 and why I said his Day 1 actions and on have proven to me he's town. Make sense? Good.

It's not wagoning with good reason behind the vote. Flawed logic.

Pssh, good reason? Not good enough to convince you though. eh? Because you disapproved on lynching broomhead after I voted.

Just because I don't like your reasons doesn't make them invalid. Are you saying that your reasons weren't good and that you did just wagon and that you're even worse town than I previously thought?

If you believed that life gamble was pro-town and thus I shouldn't be lynched, why did you advocate my lynch over and over afterward? Inconsistency.

I explain that above in addressing Parama. Read that.

The wagon that took me all the way to L-1 and back on day 2. Yes. That one. Quit pretending not to know things.

Ok.

Yeah ok. Thanks for calling me really bad town.

I call it as I see it.

More inconsistency. What I said at the end of day 1 should have affected you on day 2. In the beginning of day 2, you encouraged my vote right off the bat. Flawed logic yourself.

This is almost the same question you asked already and exactly what I addressed to Parama. So read that AGAIN if you haven't already but it explains it. It's the farthest thing from flawed logic.

---

Lastly, there are definitely scum on this "Fugi/DocP" scum team fad. I think 5 people solely in the posts at the end of page 25 and beginning of 26 have said that. It's like a circlejerk of buttfucking. Pie, Fate, Brandi, FakeGod and Espeonage have all said it recently. In fact, Navy and Parama are the only ones that haven't so far directly referenced it (at least recently, I'm not going to read all their posts to look for that reference) and can at least think for themselves.

---

TL;DR - read my post. Especially you Fate. I want to see you reading posts from now on.

[Fugitive]

P.S. I'm not going to be around all day again but I'll address everything addressed to me in a similar fashion tomorrow.

[Fugitive]

@Fugi: so even though apparently ever since the life gamble, I've been acting town-er and town-er, but you advocated lynch on me to pressure me just in case I was scum and might make a slip? And then your vote on me on d2 was RVS? What? And now you're pretty sure that I"m town? No it doesn't make any sense. Your stance on me suddenly did a 180 soon as it became apparent that you wouldn't be able to lynch me easily any more.

Stop being so butthurt that I called you bad town, that doesn't even make sense. I never said it was an RVS vote, I said it was a vote to put pressure on you and gave the example that that's quality playing because RVS is designed to put pressure on people. You need to re-read everything I said because you obviously didn't understand any of it. I said the vote on D2 was to put pressure on you, as were the votes at the end of D1.

It makes perfect sense, even if you can't wrap your head around it, I'm sure most other people here can. My stance did not do a sudden 180, it just appears that way because of my voting. I just explained how you slowly became more town over time and why the stance appeared to do a 180. Again, if you can't wrap your head around them, I'm sorry that you're playing this game.

Nothing in that post was a lie. Stop calling everything a lie, quite frankly, it's getting old and annoying.

I'm actually leaving now. Will respond to rest of stuff tomorrow.

[Fugitive]

Well, I got back late, but at least the post is here before tomorrow. So... here we go.

FG, I fixed the bolds for you since you still seem to misinterpret what I say. I was correcting that part of your post. Now stop taking everything I say and twisting it around please.

I said it was a vote to put pressure

on you and gave the example that that's quality playing because RVS is designed to put pressure on people. You need to re-read everything I said because you obviously didn't understand any of it. I said the vote on D2 was to put pressure on you, as were the votes at the end of D1.

@Fugi: so even though apparently ever since the life gamble, I've been acting town-er and town-er, but you advocated lynch on me to pressure me just in case I was scum and might make a slip?

And then your vote on me on d2 was RVS?

What? And now you're pretty sure that I"m town? No it doesn't make any sense. Your stance on me suddenly did a 180 soon as it became apparent that you wouldn't be able to lynch me easily any more.

Yeah yeah I heard your reasons. Now you're trying to portray me as emotionally angry and vengeful town noob or something.

Thank you for summing that up for me. Notice how I never actually said that, that's the tone YOU got out of it. The fact that you called yourself that through me means that that's how you see yourself. You're advocating my lynch out of spite and the town will lose because of players like you on it who are playing emotionally instead of logically.

Be quiet and go die now kthx

Time to pull a FG here. I want you to summarize your points against me in a single post. Explain why you're voting for me and why I'm scum. Protip: Reasons can't include:
-Because he voted me first
-Because Parama said so
-Because he called me butthurt

TL;DR - read my post. Especially you Fate. I want to see you reading posts from now on.

Same goes to you, oh the irony. You gotta vote me so we can dance or what?

No. You're ridiculous. I honestly can't tell if you're failtown or failscum.

He's town the way you are town Espeon, please vote Fugi.

Nice buddying.

Unvote, Vote: Fugi

Nice bandwagon.

---

Claim: Vanilla townie

I'd tell you to just lynch me to get me out of this failtown, but I want to see FG's summary first just for lulz.

---

Oh, and in case I'm lynched before FG can summarize, because of some failtown casting the hammer - I'll leave this here. These are my reads. Don't ignore this if/once I'm lynched.

Town

Navy
Brandi

Failtown

Espeonage
FakeGod

failNeutral

- I created a whole new category just for you. Pretty special.
Fate

Neutral

Pie
DocPotter

Scum

Parama

[Fugitive]

I'm not. We just have failtown and 1 or 2 scum on my wagon.

[Fugitive]

The lack of a defense from Fugi is pretty telling IMO. All he's doing is attacking others instead of defending himself. Ragequitting scum is what it looks like.

Honestly, Parama. You've played enough games with me that I had more faith in your ability to read me. Your play so far is sad for a townie. Which is why I'm reading you as scum. I suppose you could call that meta, but whatever, meta works sometimes. You've successfully led a failtown to lynch broomhead, a townie, and now me, another townie. That, and you're playing a bit more cautiously than you normally do, you're a pretty reckless townie.

That's pretty much my case against you, and it will likely convince no one but myself (possibly Pie or Nvay since they've played multiple games with us too).

I'm just having a tough time finding your scum buddy(ies).

[Fugitive]

But lynching Fugitive the scum... I'll gladly take credit for that, thank you

So what happens when I flip town?

[Fugitive]

I'd take credit for another town lynch because it would be my fault.
But you won't flip town .-.

At least you'll take the fall. I blame obvious townies on the wagon (FG and Espeonage) more than you, though, because it's your job to kill townies.

*Eagerly awaits FG's summary*

[Fugitive]

Man, that was long, but I trust that at least Fugitive will read it all. Fugitive, you said I was a bad player, and that maybe is true since this is my second game on site. I also refuse to call you a bad player because you probably have much more experience than I have here. However, I play as best I can, with much sportsmanship as I'm able to muster. And we all make mistakes. I'm terribly sorry if you are indeed town, but this is my honest case and read on you. I'm definitely not trying to lynch you out of spite. If town lynches you and you flip town, I'll go vote your fos Parama (who will have led 2 mislynches at that point) if that will make you rest easier.

Warmed my heart. Yes, I do get too intense, and that often ruins any semblance of sportsmanship. I can at least see where you're coming from now. After this game is over remind me to PM you.

---

Now to address your points. You don't really leave me any room to change your mind. You're on this wagon because of inconsistencies, and there's no real way to make you understand that I was changing my mind as posts came. I don't post everything I think or plan, that would be ridiculous, and as stuff goes on in my head and I make reads and game plans, it seems sudden. This is my style of play. Pie and Navy can attest to that. Parama could too, but he'd lie to get me lynched.

I just don't view someone thinking that somebody is scum, then changing their mind to think of them as town as a scum-tell, especially not scummy enough to lynch them. Hell, there were other people on your Day 1 and Day 2 wagons that now are calling you town, I'm just catching heat because I advocated it more heavily and started the wagons.

If you want to lynch me based on your views of me being inconsistent, fine. But when I flip town please return to page 26 and look at my reads.

P.S. I won't call you failanything or a bad player anymore.
...but Fate on the other hand...

[Fugitive]

That sounds fine to me, Esp.

Lynch Parama
Weak Doc DocP

---

Deal with Fate tomorrow.

[Fugitive]

1. DP is town - mafia kill you to get rid of a PR and try to frame DP
2. DP is scum - mafia kill you so DP isn't outed as scum

Didn't think of that. Esp is going to probably be the only death no matter what...huh?

Oh well, we'll lynch Parama today and hit scum. Then there should only be one left.

@Nvay - I don't really feel that it holds enough weight to solidify Pie as scum, though some good points were brought up, Pie had a solid defense as well. I'd need more before even FoSing him. I'm still just getting a neutral read on Pie. And you for that matter.

[Fugitive]

EBWOP:

Can we please get a vote count in here?

[Fugitive]

I'm still just getting a neutral read on Pie. And you for that matter.

I only had to post once to go from your town listto neutral? I'm good.

You're suppose to be on neutral... that's an error.

You've not posted enough for me to even get a read on you.

[Fugitive]

The speed of the wagon forming in contrast to Fugi's should be all-telling, by the way.

So you're still stuck on me being scum?

That's pretty all-telling in itself. The wagon formed so fast because you are scum, and if you still don't understand the case then you need to read.

Then again, most votes do come very fast, that's just how these people play, like it or not. Espeonage, and Doc just kind of vote all over the place. Esp, Fate and FG did that on my wagon, so stop complaining.

Speed of wagons matters very little anyway.

[Fugitive]

Don't hammer before claim. etc... etc...

I'm going to ISO DocP today.

[Fugitive]

I'm going to be V/LA until Sunday

Sorry I couldn't get the ISO out. Do whatever you like with me or DocP.

[Fugitive]

Wait wait wait. Are you going to do that iso first?

I suppose I could try to do a quick one, but I really need to sleep soon as I have to wake up early and travel tomorrow.

I'll try to hit main points / posts real quick. I'm not spending more than 30 minutes on an ISO though.

[Fugitive]

I'll go in backwards order since more recent posts are more important and I probably can't do them all.

Nice pack of lies Brandi.

When did I say that was making a

fake

case. I didn't, that's just your response to me pointing out your fake arguement.

Parama is just running scared of my scumdar because he knows my recent hit rate and he's scum lol

Brandi, a good scum-scum fake arguements should have all the hallmarks of a town-town arguements shouldn't it? Notice I never said it was town-town, just had the appearance of it.All that trouble and someone saw through it you must be disapointed.

I especially like how lynch Parama, sic Espeie onto me has changed. I'm happy to have Espie protect me.

He seems over-confident, which I usually view as a town-tell. That said, he's over confidently in an oddly scummy way. He doesn't really validate his points, which screams scum, but he doesn't really bother defending points against him, which screams town.

That said, his last two paragraphs are jumbles of words that I can barely comprehend. They're not even cohesive sentences. I think this is a lot of reason he's catching slack for being scum.

You still trying to dribble scum Fate, because you are suceeding admirably.

We had Fugi claim VT, only to have Espe jump off. But I notice you didn't say anything then did you.

Parama claims VT and I back off and wow, you start shifting votes around.

Vote Parama

I thought he was scum from around page two, and after revisiting a few things, I still think he is.


and Brandi, I suspect that your the partner due to that rubbish fake arguement. Beautifully supported by your most recent post. Your vote in #81 is just gravy btw.

His scum hunting abilities are really lacking, if you ask me. He doesn't provide a single point in his posts that would make me view a person any differently (or more scumily). I think this is another reason his is thought of as scum, and could very well mean he's scum. It's hard for scum to legitimately scum-hunt.

The main problem I have with him being scum is that I like his FoSes and votes. He votes the way I would and seems to feel that the same people are suspicious and scummy. That leads me to a more pro-town feel for DocP.

580 - 687 as oposed to 587 - 642. Yeah

Unvote

We need to hear from Brandi, especially vote wise.

Parama, as for cases I think I mentioned why. Faked arguement.

No, your claim was enough to make me take a step back to think, which is perhaps the purpose of a claim and as I said, I want to see Brandi's reaction.

Though to be honest I knew what you would claim anyway coz I'm smart.

The first post is DocP unvoting Parama at L-1 and the second is him defending his unvote. Caution is a bad sign, particularly when he went back after the Parama wagon faded and voted him again. He claimed it was because he reviewed Parama's posts again and found him to be scum, but his vote came when Parama was not in danger of being lynched; a safe-vote if you will.

That's pretty scummy to be that cautious.

For mind, I was really suspicious of the D1 Brandi-Parama interchange/arguement. Something there felt artificial.
I'm starting to believe Espe's claim now.
FG concerns me that if can go from seeming town (to me at least) to seeming scum, but is producing opposite feelings in others, then:

Unvote

That mixed reaction is worth shifting him to neutral.

So

Vote Parama

.

That's L-1 and Espe thinking of voting. Claim time.

(That will be Parama 4, Fugi 2, Fate and I 1 apeace by my count, Brandi yet to D2 vote)

I still hate your lack of sentence structure and grammar. I literally have to read his posts 3-4 times to remotely understand what he's saying. What I got from this is him justifying his Paramanublet vote by saying that he's been suspicious since almost the beginning and that he views FG as a neutral read now. I'm okay with the reads, but not so much the reasoning. This post changed my read on DocP almost none.

At this point, I'd say Fugi/DocP team.
They don't really reference/talk with each other very much.
.

FakeGod, so your theory at the moment is that there were no scum on the Broomhead lynch, and that at no time did any of your supposed scum vote for Broom.

Is that your contention?

IP, FakeGod starts posting scummy as hell empty posts and you wonder why he attracted votes. Seriously, look at his D2 postings. Devoid of anything uselfull or completely untenable.

FakeGod's contention that no scum were on the Broomhead wagon is a fairly clear and poor attempt at distracting the town from the real location of the scum, something which FG appears to know well.

He has a little scuffle here with FG for this post, and the following two, that I feel is likely a scum-town argument. Honestly, I'd lean toward DocP being the scum, but if for some reason FG dies first and flips scum, then I'd view DocP as more town. The both actually brought up semi-valid points, but I just wanted to point out that I don't feel that's a scum-scum or town-town argument.

You know FakeGod, those last few posts of yours are attrocious. Posting nothing posts, followed by a nothing post and a scummy assumption.

Odds are extreemly good that any surviving scum was on the Broom wagon, which makes me really suspicious of you. In fact I think it's safe to assume that all remaining scum were on that wagon.

Scummy posts, scum tells.
Looks like I was wrong on you D1

Vote FakeGod

He seems trying overly hard to justify his vote on FG (the wagon that happened at the beginning of Day 2. I don't really like his reasons or his vote that much, it does actually feel like a scum post.

That result makes the final vote interesting.

With one scum known not to be on the Broom vote, chances are that the other two were.

FOS

Parama, Fate, Brandi, NavyCherub, InflatablePie, FakeGod, Espeonage.

Espe we need to hear from you.

Preview Ninja'd

Espe, why target Zang?

He seems to be setting himself up to safely vote almost anyone. He's actually been doing this all game. And the only person he hasn't set himself up to vote really well is me. Which is a bit puzzling. I guess he's just trying to buddy a really pro-town player.

---

Anyway, that's all I'm doing. That covers most of his Day 2 posts.

So here goes. I'd rather lynch Parama. But I see this lynch is fine after ISOing his posts.

Vote: DocPotter

Sorry to steal your hammer, FG.

Now I'm actually V/LA. I'll see you guys after the night phase.

[Fugitive]

I forgot he didn't claim. I got ahead of myself. T___T

[Fugitive]

Bawww and such

you guys suck

lrn2NotHammer

V/LA

Townie

Go scum because I really don't want this town to win... They don't deserve it.

etc...