Mini 942: Gonzo Mafia - Game Over!

[Amished]

Yippee ki aye, motherfuckers!

Anyways, I'm your friendly Locke Lomora replacement (VP is just lazy at this point *cough cough*)

Catching up, up to .. page 3 and I want to vote for Zachrulez. Nobody else yet.

[Amished]

Vi: Is there anybody that you have trouble getting a read on at this point of the game?

Hohum: If you call me Ed, will you shoot yourself in the face for me?

DDD: Do you feel bad about Friends and Enemies?

xRx: *sigh* Why?

Sotty: MN power woohoo! Are you town?

Zach: More MN Power! Regardless of my intent to vote you, what's the most compelling thing to happen on day 1 in your eyes?

Percy: Don't turn into a cult.

And I think that's everyone. Continuing to read.

[Amished]

Ahh, whew. I do have a second suspect.

Percy should be lynched as well. Pretty sure that will win the game. Who wants a lynch now?

[Amished]

Oh dammit, I have a third Jack/flinter probably should be lynched too. Before zach, after Percy.

[Amished]

Ok, switch everything, Percy needs to be lynched first, flinter shouldn't, Zach second.

Unvote

Every intention of voting Percy solely based on the game up to page 8 (where I am now).

I'm so sad now though, an hour into the game and nothing from anybody...

[Amished]

Vote: Percy

Ok, so everyone on hohum look at page 9. Seriously, go back and read it. Now.






Ok, now you tell me if hohum is scum with ortolan or if Percy is attacking hohum who went after ortolan. I don't understand this wagon at all. Hopefully I'll be able to catch fully up tonight.

[Amished]

@DDD: I just wanted a question to people I've played with before and that was the first one that came to mind. Link to your case on Sotty?

@Jack: Fine, look at hohum attacking Ortolan. Does that look like scum attacking a buddy?

[Amished]

So, does hohum's attacks of orto feel genuine or not? Ortolan's attacks on hohum don't feel genuine to me, and neither do Percy's.

[Amished]

lol. Well that's how I feel whenever I read any of your games. "Why do you say this, why do you do that, why are you you, why can't you be me, why aren't you dead, why are they lynching you" It's very frustrating.

What do you think of this game overall so far?

[Amished]

I know, but I always ask myself those questions. I still don't understand why you were lynched in Portal mafia.. Whatever.

[Amished]

There was ample hate for you early on. I felt that VP and I were the only ones that didn't think that you or SSK were scum in that game. Anyways, why are you voting for whomever you're voting for?

[Amished]

Why? (you set yourself up for that)

[Amished]

To elaborate: Why is hohum playing "weaksaucely" scummy for him?

[Amished]

How about I'm still not finished catching up (have 3-4 pages left) and I'm fucking getting there. I'll explain everything when I'm caught up.

Also, I love how I'm being attacked by Percy basically blindly from what I skimmed of his attack on me. Instead of waiting and seeing if I had any points to refute he just goes right into attack mode instead of knowing that he's innocent.

I'll finish up tonight (it's still been under 24 hours with sleep and work that I've been in this game and I'm getting attacked for not being 100% into it, Jesus Christ you people!) so just have some damn patience.

Also, just to point out how stupid the "rhetoric" argument is by Percy (pretty much all I caught from him while tired, I replace into pretty much every game like that. Scum and Town; and then explain my reads while I'm done. I've gotten lynched for it once, Sotty (I believe) can attest to that as a recent example.

[Amished]

Finally caught up.

For hohum, my experience with him is that he's kinda lazy and ... xRx-ish at times. (For reference: this game where hohum (in a simple code) claimed cop first post as cop; and it's also the reason that charter replaced out of this game after seeing hohum here). I've not really seen him outside of this whole playstyle so right now he just feels like an easy target for almost a policy lynch.

Moving on: I get a lot of my reads on people purely by gut; and both Zach and Percy pinged those pretty hardcore. Flinter did for a little bit, but then it seemed more of a playstyle thing for her? which is why I took her off my list in my catching up posts.

For Zach (also, I'll be editing stuff in for him as I see it, so this section is likely to be disjointed): a lot of what I saw of him early on is in his responses to Vi's questioning. Even when admitting that his is an RVS vote, he doesn't do a hell of a lot about it. This post pinged my scumdar the hardest. He got way too jumpy about a simple question it feels like.

This post and the one right after it just seems like he's trying to find any reason to vote for anybody at that point. Not many people have done *anything* at that point. DDD only had 1 post, ekiM had 2; but he picks out flinter because of what Sotty said. If you combine this with what Zach said later about him not being able to fool Sotty, this does seem like a cheesy way to try to fit into a blind spot of hers.

For Percy: It starts with both his RVS vote and continues with his first questioning post. These both look contrived. The RVS vote just doesn't read right. There's not really a way to make the statement an exclamatory one, and it just seems like he's trying to overexaggerate to help give a reason to his vote by making it look scummy. For the questioning post, if that's not the fluffiest question I've ever seen I'll eat my pitchfork. There was absolutely no "lashing out" by anybody *but* xRx; so the question is absolutely pointless for being the 34th one in the game (18th that wasn't confirmations/rules). It's busy work that couldn't even help Percy help to determine how hohum felt about anything.

--Supper time, gonna finish this when I come back so I don't lose it to timing out or anything--

Post 65, page 3

[Amished]

Also, I ask that somebody unvotes me until I at least have my say and a chance to defend my position. Continuing on, I'll try not to get as picky to cut down on stuff that I picked up on.

[Amished]

@Percy: I was more concerned about your revision post where you like saw where I was coming from, but I was still scum for it.

I don't care about where the question came from, the fact that you made it an exclamation rather than just a simple sentence or a question (both of which are more logical and more likely to be a normal reaction) is what made that post ping my gut.

For the question, wouldn't it be better just to ask for an opinion rather than "phras(ing) it pretty open-ended" that actually only left hohum one answer?

[Amished]

Oh, and btw Jahudo put me at L-2, not L-1.

Still an odd vote. I don't see hohum scum, and I know I'm not scum. I could see a possibility where I'm wrong about one of Percy/Zach and Jahudo is attacking me for pegging a scummate (and I'm more certain about Percy anyways).

Considering the wagon on hohum looks larger than it should be, Vi starting it fits right, xRx is.. well, xRx and I can see where he's coming from (hey, attacking somebody that was half-assed worked once, why not try it again?), and Jack doesn't seem like the most experienced person so would be likely to follow a Vi in this game. Percy's vote is left in the open there for that; with Jahudo sitting in the "not voting" category to see if there would be more support for any wagon and hop on that.

So from here I'll stop with Zach as I've been wrong before and a lot of people are stating a town read on him. Still a questionable in my mind but meh, not worth it right now.

[Amished]

Regarding post restrictions: I'm not convinced it's a post restriction. I think people who are jumping on Vi and

demanding

that she

explain herself

seem to be both (1) opportunistic and (2) paranoid.

Also, how would you have preferred I acted in response to hohum's post if you apparently found my reaction scummy?

I don't know why you concluded that it was a post restriction. Some reasoning and/or conclusions based on this stance of yours would have been nice.

Still, I re-read you in ISO, and I find myself with a

townish

read, simply because in most other cases you explain yourself well, and I

think

it speaks to townie motivations.

Percy: I would have voted if I thought that action made Reck more likely scum.

I understand that. What I'm asking is why you've dismissed the case on xRx, even though it's more than just "voting for votehopping", which in and of itself you seem to suggest is "not great" and potentially "setting someone up".

This is another post that bugs the hell outta me for Percy. I bolded the significant paragraph, and italicized the specific words that twigged my scumdar. It's such a weak way to say that somebody is town that it just looks fabricated as anything. Obviously, ortolan flipped scum and I think townies would use stronger language as they inherently trust their reads and don't have to undermine themselves in small ways like that. Compare that to

With profound, 100% confidence unheard of before on this site... Probably.

Townies know when they're not sure, but scum tend to undermine themselves when talking about a buddy. Heck, it allows them to bus a buddy for town cred if necessary.

There's also countless examples of Percy going after the easy targets. xRx early on, flinter

I think flinter's attitude of "scumhunting leads to dead townies" and what may very well be as slip on her part regarding knowledge of zach's alignment is what is keeping my scumdar pinging like crazy, but I think xRx's fading into the background when the heat came off him is scummy as hell.

hohum Also, I like how hohum is scummy for overdefensiveness in that linked post, but then look at the first paragraph. Super defensive over something that's not even relevant to this game.

Here I'll clarify each of the points I raised.
1. Overdefensiveness - You note that defensiveness isn't a scumtell, but being overdefensive is a scumtell. I concede that this isn't one of my strongest points (in that it verges on playstyle criticism), but he not only lashes out at anyone who attacks him, he's also accused every person who has ever voted for him of being scum.

Hey.... Wait, what? You're calling yourself scum, good deal.

Also in the linked post, he keeps with xRx, hohum and flinter as his scapegoats.

kyle lied/forgot about not playing with xRx as scum. Doubly so. However, kyle is clearly a player who lurks, says stupid things and has to be replaced in many games, as both town and scum.

This is only odd because Percy basically gives kyle a free pass based solely on meta, but doesn't give a shit about the meta of hohum (lazy, overall) and xRx (erratic). Inconsistent stances on players for the same reason = scumz Oh, and guess who replaced kyle. Yep, that's right, it's Jahudo who voted for me after calling out Percy

2. Misrepresentations - Firstly, it was his branding me a lurker, and implying I was lying about my modding commitments. That jab was a misrepresentation of my play so far; it felt like he saw my "sorry I'll be on tomorrow" post and did whatever he could to twist that into an attack on me; it's the kind of non-discriminatory knee-jerk case building that screams scum to me. Secondly, his characterization of the post restriction exchange as me "going on the offensive" was really the backbone of his case against me, even though I was posting only to clarify my position, and even stated that it was a very weak tell, if anything at all. This links back to 1.

Regarding post restrictions: I'm not convinced it's a post restriction. I think people who are jumping on Vi and

demanding

that she

explain herself

seem to be both (1) opportunistic and (2) paranoid.

Pretty sure you all remember the latter quote; looks like a pretty clear misrepresentation to me.

This is all up to page 15; and I'm shot at this point. I think I've brought up enough to illustrate my point.

For the crossposts: I've not seen hohumscum either (I don't think, I might've but it'd be over a year ago so I'm really not sure) but he's basically like this anytime I see him play. Obviously I'd support a Jahudo lynch as well, but Percy was the one that I "found" so I'd like him lynched for my own personal ego.

[Amished]

Oh, forgot about this too, since I'm not particularly paying attention to Percy-scum: Read this again and see if you can see this in Percy's play anytime in .. oh, you know.. the last 2 pages:

Here I'll clarify each of the points I raised.
1. Overdefensiveness - You note that defensiveness isn't a scumtell, but being overdefensive is a scumtell. I concede that this isn't one of my strongest points (in that it verges on playstyle criticism),

but he not only lashes out at anyone who attacks him

, he's also accused every person who has ever voted for him of being scum.

(bolding mine)

[Amished]

@Jahudo: And? You had a night to look for connections, or if you were going to do that; you could've made your first post in the day about connections instead of going after ekiM in 552. But I come in, attack Percy/Zach and then you vote me for connections? Riiiiiight. Cause they just popped out of nowhere.. /headdesk

[Amished]

@Percy: I'll get to your wall probably tonight later, I just want to clarify a couple small things that I saw.

For the question: Like I pointed out, there were 18 actual posts in the "game" (so not counting confirmations/rules) when you asked if xRx was the only person "looking for someone to lash out at" when every vote *but* xRx's had a RVS feel. So, who else would be able to lash out, other than xRx? Nobody. It's a fluff question.

Also, at the end where you were questioning what I wrote down for a post on like page three, that was for my reference so I could pick up where I left off continuing my case against you.

@Sotty7, Zachrulez: Since I don't believe that there's more than 2 remaining scum (3:9 is pretty reasonable) and Percy is my top pick; Jahudo looks more like a partner to Percy after I got in and got everyone's feel for Zach. At this point I don't see anybody saying that he's scum so I'm chalking it up to me being paranoid for the moment. He's still one of the few that pinged my scumdar hard, but he's 3rd in line (which technically would make him a townie and not worth building a case on a townie).

@Zachrulez specifically:

Probably has a lot to do with the fact that a Percy lynch is a lot more viable a Zach lynch.

Fucking lmao. Yep, there's a lot of Percy hate out there right now. Hohum is the only one voting for Percy, so that statement makes a TON of sense. Get over yourself. Hell, my one "supporter" is more likely to vote for Jahudo (and has) rather than my pick of Percy. So that makes Percy a lot more viable...... /cough

[Amished]

Sorry Vi; I want to get a feel for people in the game while I'm here rather than extrapolating from the rest of the game.

[Amished]

Yeah, that's essentially my position. I thought Percy + Zach replacing in just based on gut for both of them; but due to responses from most of you and Jah's voting of me I switched out Zach for Jah.

[Amished]

Well, if you want the effect of us hating you more; then yes, all caps does have more of an effect.

[Amished]

Here Amished pretty much says that it's a null tell for him. Further, his activity has kinda sputtered out ever since he made the post where he explained the reads. (Though to be fair everyone's activity pretty much has.)

You can stop right the fuck there. I haven't been around today for page 27 so from page 24 in an 11 player game but whatever (3 pages, 25 posts per page, 75 posts total). 75/11 is roughly 7 (so if everything was equal, I should have 7 posts).

I dare you right now to count how many fucking posts I have to catch up and explain myself fully. Or for the lazy/"I don't want to change my reads" crowd *glares at Zach* including this post I have 26. I'm four times as active as the rest of you should "average" with a perfect type of posts game. You do not get to say my activity is a scumtell in the slightest.

Prove your shit or don't say it in the first place.

I'll hopefully be catching up for what I missed today this weekend, it's another one spent with the girlfriend so I will probably be doing something other than illuminating myself for perfect strangers.

[Amished]

Describing me as "going after an easy target" when it comes to any of the three playerslots he mentioned (xRx, flinter, hohum) is flatly untrue. I didn't vote xRx until

after

the wagon had disappeared, I

never

voted flinter (and in fact spent most of the day saying how I couldn't make heads or tails of her), and to call hohum an "easy target" is ridiculous.

O RLY?

I don't want to put xRx at L-1 yet, but I understand that early bandwagons are designed to pile on the pressure, and xRx has reacted poorly. His "Unvote whoops well are you going to kill me because if not let's forget it ever happened" is another example of that.

Attacking him when he was at L-2; yep, you never went after him when there was a bandwagon around... You bringing up your vote is a clever ruse to make it look like I'm wrong, but your intention to vote him was there despite the lack of vote at the height of his bandwagon. Also, somebody who has barely 10 more posts than I do throughout the game is an easy target, I don't care what you say.

Amished has accused me of being overdefensive, but I don't think that's the case.

I'm sure you don't. I do, and that's all that matters cause it's a scumtell for you; and you're doing it.

-quote by me pointing out Percy saying lashing out at anyone who attacked the original player is a scumtell-

What's this reffering to? I couldn't find anything two pages from when that quote was made, or the last two pages overall.

Look at Percy attacking me in 602 saying I'm coming out all guns'a'blazing and that I have a lot of empty rhetoric when all I did was declare him scum for reasons to be explained after I caught up. This is also in reference to the "overdefensive" thing that I called him out on. I didn't even make a case at that point and he attacked me. If anybody calls that town behavior, I'll come to your house and kick a puppy over a fence that I built in your front yard.

I don't like hohum's play so far. Sound and fury, signifying nothing, excused with belligerent "I'll pressure who I want!". I find it scummy. If he has played like this before as town, I'd appreciate a link.

I know there's somewhere recently where Percy said he doesn't really put much stock in meta or some-such-nonsense...

@Vi: For my hohum looks town opinion: It's a combination of I see him being lazy/anti-town; but I have three other suspects that are more blatantly scummy than hohum is in my eyes. Fourth out of ten people isn't really going to be a strong read for me.

Also, I know you were modding the game at the time but if you look back at Jazzmyn's reactions to me calling her scum in Last Man Standing it's awfully similar to Percy's reactions here. No real defense, just attacks me for calling them scum without me saying much behind it. (To clarify: snake-oil = rhetoric/guns'a'blazin' is what I'm talking about)

@Zach: Not normally, but this is a fun game and when I'm relaxed and screwing around with friends I have a foul mouth. As I've played with the majority of people here, I feel relaxed around you all. Except scum, you can die in a fire (gogo VP Baltar reference ) Is there a point to your question or are you going to do something productive?

@xRx: AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!

[Amished]

Yeah, and what other games have I had any type of long lasting relationship of sorts with like 3/4ths of the playerlist?

Get to doing something other than BS'ing with me. I have my case completed and I want Percy to hang, and Jahudo to be shot or something. The other way around wouldn't be bad but I like my ego and I stroke it while I can.

[Amished]

Way to not read any of the arguments or consider that you might be wrong. Strong play, that.

[Amished]

So something that got you to catch scum yesterday... you don't do today?

[Amished]

Then why did you do it once but not a second time?

[Amished]

@ekiM: Quick thought for you: Everything I'm doing (apparently) is a scumtell. Is anyone always that scummy? Especially an experienced player? Or are you tunneled and just paranoid. Back away from the game and really take a look at it; I feel Vi is the only one that's really doing this objectively at this point.

[Amished]

@ekiM (post 697): It's because of early game stuff that I'm being wagoned (well, it's all Locke's doing, a lot of which happened D1). Because I bring stuff up about Percy on D1 makes it less invalid than stuff that has been brought against Locke/me from D1? I don't really think so.

As for my case against Percy: I don't really look at overall general themes of a game like that. I scumhunt by looking for things that feel off to me. If I find scum and they do something obvious (like Percy's giving kyle a free pass for replacing out because it's "kyle's meta") then I find associative tells. The fact that Percy was campaigning for a counter-wagon to Ortolan at the time sure as hell doesn't make him more likely to be town just because *I* don't mention it or catch onto it. Are you really saying that I'm more likely to be scum because I didn't bring up something on somebody I'm trying to lynch? Really start to think about your position on my entire player slot if this is why you're still voting me. There was a game that I played with Vi (that I recently referenced as well) where I caught scum in the first 3 pages due to how they worded their statements. VP and I as a hydra caught scum on page 1-2 because of how he worded an attack. Scumtells are scumtells for me, regardless of where they occur.

As for the over-defensiveness: I didn't realize calling somebody scum and voting them was "goading". "Hey, you're scum too, I should vote you!" ..... No, that is in no way a goad against a player; especially not one as experienced as Percy. How many times have you attacked somebody as town for putting you at L-4 when it's 6 to lynch without a case? I'm guessing it's somewhere around never. I didn't have a case up at that point, but what I said was "empty rhetoric" without reasoning or anything.

@Vi: My second post was largely a random post essentially stating who I've played with/have some experience with. The reason I asked you a legit question is because I have a notoriously hard time reading you as a player. If you ended up in my town category based on my other reads; then your opinion is highly useful and respected for me. If you would've turned up in a scum category; then I had a feel for who you interacted with/perhaps giving more of a free pass.

Essentially it was a starting point to say hi/start talking to people and get an in-game feel for people and get into a dialog with people where they have little time to react if I can catch them online. Having people relax and then ask them questions where they typically don't have time to really think about their responses is one of the best ways to get a feel for the alignment of a player. I was especially happy that I got xRx online so I could get more of a feel for him cause he's probably the most unreasonably random person on MS that I've had the pleasure of playing with.

For my wagoners:
Amished ~ L-2 (ekiM, Sotty7, Zachrulez, Jahudo)

ekiM seems to be holding a long term "grudge" (not the right word but whatever) against Locke's play and is reluctant to let that go probably due to ego and thinking that he was right about Locke and then giving me credit as a good player replacing in. I can see this thought-process coming from a townie, it's just annoying for me since I know he's wrong.

I honestly have no idea why Sotty is voting for me in the first place. It was from before I replaced in so it was against Locke; but nothing really jumped out as a solid reason from her.

Zach was from Locke as well, and I think he's not switching his stance due to tunnel-blindness as well as ekiM's "Amished is a good player" or something along those lines.

Jahudo voted for me after I replaced in; and two and a half real-life days after the start of the day. I feel that he's chainsawing for Percy (possibly trying to play Percy-town as thinking he'll vote for me and put me at L-1 or something, but that's less likely in my eyes). His given reasoning is Locke's associative play to Ortolan; but with the 2.5 days that he had before I even replaced in, he could've put up a case against Locke during that time since I believe it's more beneficial to look for scum connections instead of (essentially) picking out somebody and saying "oh, they're town because of this scum!" which doesn't give credit to the scum player either since good scum attack each other anyways (which was the gist of why ekiM was cleared for Jahudo at the start of the day).

Unvote
Vote: Jahudo

I believe he's scum with Percy, so my vote on either of them works for me. I still want Percy to die, but I don't appear to have control over that

@xRx: Will you follow me onto different scum? *bats eyelashes*

[Amished]

Awww, you do love me, Reck! <3

[Amished]

@Sotty: (sorry about the missed questions here, just briefly popping in)

hohum is somebody that I like, but don't really think he puts a lot of effort into his games (the cop claim one, Vi having to take over modding one that he abandoned, there's been another one that I've been in that he's modded that he's not always been on the ball with) so I think he's an easy target. I didn't get a scum-vibe from hohum besides the apathy which I've seen in all aspects of his stay on MS from modding to playing so there's less of an expectation of him being around and/or doing a hell of a lot which is what a lot of the case against him boils down to in my eyes.

I don't find defensiveness a scumtell at all cause townies do that just as much (if not more cause they outnumber scum). However, I definitely fall into the category of thought that people find their own scumtells through time through their own experience, and if I catch somebody doing what they consider a scumtell; then *that* is a scumtell. Random example: If you found that vote hopping quickly was a scumtell and then I saw you vote hopping; I'd call you scum for it. Percy being super defensive by going on the attack before there was anything to attack or defend falls into what I feel he would classify as a scumtell; which makes that a scumtell for him from my perspective (if you can follow that).

I'm calling it a chainsaw because I believe Percy is scum that much. The vote by Jahudo looks like a weaker and panicked attempt to try to get me lynched, especially considering the timing of it. I've come into a lot of games like I have in this one and I haven't been attacked that harshly because of it pretty much ever OTOH. There's a certain backlash feeling that I get to try to throw whatever that might possibly stick to me in an attempt to try to just force something. I'm basically calling it the opposite of my experience is a town reaction. Scum don't always react like that, especially if I have something wrong but how I pushed Percy first and foremost and then got voted by Jah for something that could've come out just as easily the first post of the day for him makes it all seem too convenient.

And sorry that there's a lot of semantics; but it's strange wordings that I tend to look for to find scum. That's essentially the same thing ekiM criticized about my case against Percy as well; that I didn't see all the angles. I scumhunt my own way and put it down. It's hard to get people convinced over a gut thing; but I did my best and apparently it wasn't enough with a crowd such as this.

Though there's still that good point that I do have that you pointed out; so I'm glad that you're reevaluating the game because of it and I look forward to your thoughts on Jahudo.

[Amished]

And... you had 2.5 days when Locke was still "in" the game to do your scum connections. Also, the tone that I got from your post (the connections one) was that you fully thought ekiM was scum; not that you were really questioning him.

Try again with your next excuse since that post (against ekiM) took all of one hour to put together. 2.5 days later when I replace in gives you enough time to put another one together.

[Amished]

I have no idea what's been going on these last couple pages mostly cause I've skimmed to see if there's anything super important to respond to and there really isn't.

@Percy: I saw you wanted me to respond to something, where was it for expediencies sake?

@ekiM: I remember you saying that I misrepresented your position about how I feel everything I do for you is scummy. Let me phrase this a different way: what (if anything) have you given me town-cred for? I contest that the answer is "nothing" so therefore everything I do (since it's not scummy?) is a null tell? How does that work? Everything that our other replacements are doing can't be a null tell either; so why are you singling me out?

@Sotty: I think I saw you criticize me for not bringing up a point (or attacking Percy's early game or something): That's essentially the same thing Mike was saying about me, I look for things that are scumtells for me. Early game, late game, one post, whatever. I don't look at overall game states (Percy leading a competing wagon against Ortolan) nor do I forget early game shit that pings my scumdar. The feel of the post was off and that's what I look for. Even when I find my own scumtell (pegging xRx in F and E and him not getting lynched *glare*), people don't believe me about it, so I don't have the persuasiveness that I want, but I do find more scum than I'm given credit for. I hate it but this is how I find them.

Gah, there's something else that I wanted to pick up on but I can't remember what it is anymore.

In any case:

@Mod: V/LA until Monday the 19th

Noted. ~ The mod

I'll try to post quick thoughts if I can/the sig other lets me; but no promises.

[Amished]

Skimmed up, glad that Jah is scum; bewildered that Percy is town. Not sure why there's still some hate towards me but whatever.

[Amished]

Contemplating a massclaim with 2 mafia dead already. Would help clear/implicate people from N1 due to the lack of a kill then.

[Amished]

Then why would the scum decide to no-kill? There had to have been time to allow for any decisions.

[Amished]

What are you trying to say the intention of the short night is? That the scum decided not to kill somebody (against their wincon) for wifom purposes?

[Amished]

5) Nights will have a set deadline of 72 hours. Any night actions not sent in by that time will not be counted. No exceptions.

... yup. Mod definitely hates the scum to make them not have time to make a NK. If there's an ability to shorten the night, then that player is cleared as that person would have zero scum intention to deprive their team of night-communication and/or a night kill.

[Amished]

Aren't beloved princesses normally like... named something other than a neighbor-maker?

If the case is that Ort/Cobalt had another passive-ability like that, then it's less likely that scum would buss in that situation, wouldn't it?

[Amished]

This wagon is way too easy for my tastes and I'm not convinced xRx is scum anyways.

Reck, you're at L-1, claim time?

[Amished]

Wait a second.... Does anybody left really understand the "theme" of the game pretty much inside and out?

What I'm primarily wondering is if the scum don't even have a night-kill. Neighbor-maker would make them less likely to be pegged as scum had they lived. One person acting alone would have the time to decide to not-kill on N1; and my evidence against Percy giving kyle/jah a free pass with Jah turning scum does make sense with like a vig kill or something.

[Amished]

I dunno, I just don't see xRx scum, Vi. Other than your kyle being stupid as scum and talking about xRx meta (which I can see as kyle wanting to keep his options open) what else do you got on Reck?

Oh, and /facepalm theme game, I'm sure that there'd be a fake-claim or vanilla roles sent to the scum or something anyways.

[Amished]

I don't see us ringing up two scum on day 2 so that kinda confirms in my mind that hohum is just lazy.

ekiM I just reread through and I can't see anything super pro-town by him either.

I'm kinda lost at the moment cause I really thought Percy was the last scum.

Vote: ekiM

[Amished]

Urrgh. STFU, both of you.

@ Vi: what made you think it was Jack that made the night end preemptively?

[Amished]

I will hammer you after Vi answers my question if you want out this bad. I hate that I think you're town though.

It'd be for the sole reason that you called me Ed all this time. And claiming cop in your first post that one game.... *grr*

[Amished]

There's a difference between think and know, people. Jesus.

[Amished]

Also, I like how xRx is deciding not to vote for hohum (for my alleged slip or what the fuck ever you want to take my comment out of context as) but isn't voting for me because of the slip and how sure he is about it.

Vote: xRECKONERx

[Amished]

I'm so right, I can feel it. I gave you {xRx} an easy out to follow me before, and you did it.

Zach, remind you of yourself when I caught your scumbuddy raven in that newbie game at all?

[Amished]

Zach, what do you think I'm doing?

xRx: You also need 3 mislynches to win (assuming 3-9 split) from here out (6 other players, 3 mislynches and 2 nk's leaves you in a 1:1 night endgame). Using up a single easy one now is not going to win you the game. Allowing an "easy" mislynch to go through now while not creating another one pretty much backs you into a corner where it's damn near impossible for you to win.

[Amished]

Good, so follow me again into voting scum!

[Amished]

Ahh, DDD. I both love that you read the game the same way that I do, but it's for that reason that I have a hard time distinguishing a playing of me or not. However; it'd be stupid to try to play me with with all the animosity. Well, that confirms it for me, I definitely agree with you about Sotty; and I don't see Zach's role being a scum role either. We can go through everybody else at this point I think.

[Amished]

@DDD: All the people who have me at the top of their scumlists. Why would you choose me (if you were scum) to play when there's quite a few people that want to see me lynched within the next 2 days rather than go with all of them and have yourself a mislynch target since whoever the scum is they have to be getting pretty desperate at this point.

[Amished]

Sotty: I think that hohum is town. It's gut more than anything and there's not much reasoning behind it. Therefore I'd be comfortable using a chance on him in case I'm wrong about my gut.

The latter quote does not relate to the former quote. The latter refers back to Day 2 when xRx followed me onto Jahudo for basically no reason at all.

[Amished]

Read rule #4 again, Ho

[Amished]

Ahh, makes sense.

Mind voting for xRx who I don't think I've seen be actively unhelpful as town rather than his typical random chaotic sometimes lazy town-self?

[Amished]

Cause right now you're just being sort of a crybaby. Other times I've seen you you haven't gone off the handle this much.

[Amished]

Yay, "terrible play" as an excuse for my lynch! After not seeing anything scummy pop out on a quick reread (read Vi's previous posts) and basically agreeing with both DDD and I about hohum (should get lynched one way or another but won't right now?); but still wanting me lynched essentially because of me stating that hohum should be lynched at the time.

Looks like desperate scum to me.

xRx: stop being so random.

Unvote
Vote: Vi

[Amished]

What has been so terrible then, and why is it scummy? Please, elaborate your shoddy reasons for voting me.

I believe what you said about hohum was: *IF* he was town, he sucks hard. *IF* he's scum, he's effective. *THEN* you say you wouldn't cry if he was lynched. How is that effectively different from my stance of hohum's play is bad enough (town or scum) to warrant a try at scum by lynching him?

[Amished]

For ekiM: I thought Sotty's 845 was the best posting of D3, and coupled with his L-1 of xRx here was scummy. BY THE WAY: how is my "awesome mike vote for no reasoning" any different than your awesome mike vote for no reasoning" ?

37: If there's nothing to say (once) I'd rather say that everything going on at the time is boring and not worth commenting on then a single post is active lurking? Ooooookay..

Setup Speculation: Lack of a NK N1, with somebody I viewed as scummy N2 as the only NK looks a lot more like a vig to me than a scumteam. Obviously. I was having trouble getting really solid reads on a couple players, and Zach's claim made me believe him more so I don't see the problem with a massclaim, especially after lynching two scum.

Yesterday I didn't see xRx as scum, I am allowed to change my mind. Today what he said made more sense as scum than it did as town (Unvoting hohum due to me willing to hammer somebody I felt was town implies that he thinks that I'm scum going for a mislynch. Him not voting for me when it's implied that he thinks I'm scum when I didn't have a vote on me at the time (I believe) looks a lot more like scum behavior than town behavior.

As for DDD: I agreed basically 100% with his post 1000. That's where I got the same read thing from. When I have the same outlook as somebody I both like them (cause they're reading the game the same way indicating a similar mindset) and wonder if they're playing me (as it's happened before). 55 is my thought process if it'd make more sense to play only me; or to try to use me as a mislynch. With a couple people listing me as their secondary suspect during the early part of the day today; it would make more scum-sense to try to use me as one of the 3 needed mislynches for the scum to come back from 2 partners down.

Try coming up with something with a little more context to your argument next time. I expect more out of you.

[Amished]

Well that was pretty much expected. Still don't like Vi, and her? being on both of the quick mislynches easily like that rubs me severely the wrong way. 2 scum dead, still think we're looking for the last one.

Vote: Vi

[Amished]

I really like DDD and Sotty as town right now. That leaves you and xRx who we can lynch today. Your positions on ekiM and hohum (and your "feeling strongly about your position on me after reread" and then have that turn into doubt or something when you went to hohum) and their mislynches look absolutely terrible; since both happened much faster than I would've expected (which means that scum were on BOTH from my eyes.)

ekiM ~ LYNCH (Sotty7, Amished, Vi, xRECKONERx, hohum)
hohum ~ LYNCH (Sotty7, Zachrulez, Vi, xRECKONERx)

Surprisingly, Sotty was on both of them, but starting them is better in my eyes. xRx and you (Vi) are on both, and later on. Zach and ho are both confirmed town so we can eliminate them and from my perspective I'm town so I can eliminate myself as well. DDD, unsurprisingly, was off of both of them and that makes him confirmed town in my eyes as well.

One of the reasons that I'm going after you is xRx's response to my "slip", which is the exact same thing that Zach did to my post and Zach is confirmed town (and xRx did it earlier). That leaves some doubt while you really haven't done much redeeming in my eyes that I can recall at all ever; especially lately.

[Amished]

{hohum and xRx qualify as scum? what the hell are you saying here?}

Oh come on, hohum lynched anybody that he could get his hands on; you really "couldn't expect that"? Especially with hohum being wagoned hardcore that day and very easily sensing his own end? And hohum hammering Jahudo the day before that? Bullshit and various other comments.

I'm saying that {1 scum left} cause we have two lynches to hit scum. Even if I might possibly be wrong about you, I know I'm not wrong about both you and xRx.

For my 997 comment: Jahudo and Ortolan were both dead. Assuming me-scum, who the fuck am I coaching? I'm explaining what I'm looking for and why xRx fit that bill to me at the time. I also applied that to your stance on me. Looking back, I see that it does apply more to you than to xRx; and I haven't sensed any urgency from Sotty or DDD (which is a huge factor in my current reads).

I don't know what I was doing, but I didn't remember your 1040. Anyways, by sections:

{mentioning ekiM}Let's go through.. Day3 started on page 34. Post 879 you mention him by PoE. Then you vote him in 894. In the time between those posts, you... Accuse xRx almost solely (and discredit yourself on the wagon in 885), talk about the N1 length, talk about using our Power Roles and talk about Sotty. That's a lot of discussion, and certainly enough to put you above any suspicion... /sarcasm

For the steering discussion: Other than the hohum lynch, the game was pretty much going where I thought it should. Jahudo I was happy with, ekiM was ambivalent enough that I thought he had a good shot at last scum and hohum I thought he was worthless but I wanted to go for a stronger scum read (which I didn't have any time to really counter a lot of what was said since I didn't have time to post during that period)

{Scumhunting} I'm always looking. Most of what I see can't/shouldn't be posted (can't for hard to verbalize, shouldn't for a myriad of reasons). If the game is going the way I generally agree with (especially since you're talking more about before the hohum lynch) I don't really see a need to vocalize.

xRx was my second choice for scum yesterday, and remains so today behind you. He's become really solidified with being (now) sure of hohum; and my constant mental nagging of "confirmed role != confirmed town" Zach being dead. If I had a dayvig power, I'd kill you and then lynch xRx and I could basically guarantee that there's scum in one of you two.

{feeling a mislynch against me} Zach, xRx, Sotty, and you (at times) had various comments saying that I was a relatively top suspect. At that point, it's fairly easy to manipulate NK's so that I'd be left for one of the last 3-4 days assuming mislynching to Lylo. Especially with enough people saying they have strong town reads elsewhere.

{expect more out of you} Nothing that you said against me in your case is a legitimate scumtell. You're around enough to actually try to go for motivations behind it and why it benefits me. However, what you did was sufficiently superficial that I felt that it didn't come from you-town.

Finally, I saw that you said that I flipped out at two people that accused me (being xRx and you {Vi}). xRx never accused me, and I was attacking him for the lack of accusation rather than what you did accuse me of. Your attack of me was so bad that it couldn't possibly come from town which I did attack you for.

[Amished]

Opposed to massclaim at this time.

Vi, I'll get to you when I have more energy but it's pretty obvious that you're wrong about me (I believe, cause you still haven't voted today even though admitting that you think there's only one scum left)

[Amished]

I'm very evidently town.

[Amished]

ugh, stupid fatal board error:

abbreviated version of lost post:

@DDD: I'm less opposed to a massclaim now than I was yesterday (in RL days).

@Sotty: I'm not as lazy as you make me out to be. I agreed with the ekiM case made by you, and my position on hohum throughout the game I thought has been clear.

[Amished]

ugh, stupid fatal board error:

abbreviated version of lost post:

@DDD: I'm less opposed to a massclaim now than I was yesterday (in RL days). Also, if possible, I'd like to go later on in a MC order but obviously that might not be acceptable to the other players.

@Sotty: I'm not as lazy as you make me out to be. I agreed with the ekiM case made by you, and my position on hohum throughout the game I thought has been clear.

[Amished]

Quicknotes version of a response to Vi's 1076

Just catching the highlights.

If xRx is playing like scum (self preservation) why are you not voting for him? Is he your top suspect? Why or why not?

{hohum hammering} The L-1 wagon "that day" that you were talking about hohum was already on (and it was hohum's wagon). If you really thought he cared about who he voted for you were sadly mistaken, and I don't believe you are legitimately that blind as town.

{coaching} If you'd look back at my coaching post (post 997) and then scroll up to the top of page 40 where I actually VOTED for xRx, you'll see that my "coaching" is my extended reasoning for voting for xRx. Besides, does it make ANY SENSE AT ALL for me-scum to tell a townie what not to do for me to not suspect them? I'd need all the mislynches I could get, and doing that would not help my cause. Me-town explaining myself makes a lot more sense....

{opposite behaviors} How is this a scumtell? I can read a game and say who I think is scum just as well as posting aggressively and saying the same damn thing. Again, how is this a scumtell?

{WIFOM} In my first scum game (newbie in the 600's...) Mastin-scumpartner NK'd every supporter he had to "anti-frame" himself in an attempt to control the entire town. Ended up not working but you killing Zach (who did say that he thought I had some redeeming qualities so his suspecting of me isn't as definite as you seemed to make it out to be)

DDD: Vi still your top suspect?
xRx: Why is DDD scum to you?
Vi: Top suspect?
Sotty: Who do you think has the most to gain from the NK's?

[Amished]

I think Vi meant that I didn't want to massclaim at the time of her post. Not you. Also, I have a question posed for you.

[Amished]

If the game is mostly going the way I feel it should, do I really have any motivation for posting? Not particularly since I think if it's following what I think the game would be over. That's mostly the reason that I've kicked my posting up a notch since nobody is really getting their shit together and voting for you. On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being confirmed sanity cop guilty; I'd put you at about an 8.3. The reason you're not into the 9 range is because I'm still debating with myself over xRx since he's so damn off the wall that I can't stand it sometimes.

About my claim: it has the potential to end the game; but it also could be absolutely useless. It depends on everybody else, unfortunately.

For my page 40 (this is all to the best of my recollection my thoughts at the time of each post):

It starts before that with hohum just acting like a spoiled brat for so long with his hammering and just not giving a shit about the game. I expect it from him (especially after the claiming cop in first post fiasco that I had with him), but it's so anti-town that it's a decent shot and would get rid of a huge distraction for everybody else despite my personal feelings for him.

At that point I had a relatively townie vibe from Zach (probably 2nd-3rd most townie) and the whole "thinking" thing I'd see more from a townie; but xRx reacted so weirdly that he both implied me slipping that I knew hohum was town (which means I'm scum from his perspective) but then to not attack who made the slip isn't a standard response that I ever see from most people who are trying to win the game. So his aggressive-passiveness screamed scum to me (which is the long version of my 984 and my vote of him)

xRx in 989 uses WIFOM to get himself out of what I caught him in (not voting for somebody that should be basically confirmed scum from what I thought his perspective should be). Then I think about it more from a xRx-scum mindset: my partners were lynched on day1 and 2; with a whole town to get through. I need to look at this long term, who all can be lynched and who do I need to try to set up for later since there's some pretty good players here? hohum is an obvious anti-town player, locke's play is bad enough and there's enough hate of that that Amished could be lynched (sooner rather than later {my own ego talking here}) but then who? I need to keep my options open and get whoever lynched that I can right now that looks relatively open. (which is the opposing viewpoint of part of the reason I view DDD as so town right now)

So hohum is an obvious mislynch from a scum perspective and could be done at any time. If I (xRx) could start a mislynch on Amished without actually starting it, I could be much better off.

(Leaving DDD at the top of his scum list in 994 does play into that a little bit too)

But he needed the mislynches, and my view is that xRx wanted to jump on a wagon of me and leech off of other people's reasoning so his couldn't be called into question. This scum perspective narrative is my explanation for his actions for the day (and now that I'm typing this, why did he vote for hohum yesterday even though both of his top suspects were still alive (DDD and I))?

After that, with your actual attack on me I assumed that I was attributing malice to xRx's signature play that I describe as "not even xRx knows what xRx is doing" and came after you.

FUCK. Now you're at about a 7.4

[Amished]

@xRx: As soon as the 4 of us can decide on an order.

@Sotty: Typing it all out like that made me believe more in xRx scum; just trying to go through it all in my mind (and not actually typed out in a legible and readible form for you all) and then having to balance it out with how much experience I've actually had with xRx and how erratic he can be; as well as Zachrulez (confirmed town) doing essentially the exact same thing as xRx a post later about my comment also weighs into it. It comes down to this: I view you and DDD to be just about as town as I am; so I can play with both of them and as long as they're both lynched I feel we'll win. I view Vi as a better player so less of a scummy action from her also becomes more pronounced because of her reputation. I know that somebody brought up her argument with Ortolan D1 but D1 is the easiest time to get into a petty dispute that can be pointed to later.

For the NK's: I agree with you about Zach's NK: almost solely somebody who didn't want to deal with a day-ending ability (which could be problematic I suppose).

Percy didn't make any sense to me. He obviously was going after me pretty hardcore but I don't really recall anything that he said. However, (WIFOM) with me already having a big case on him like I had, and me not being lynched for his pressure of me it's not exactly something that I would really bother with as scum (and would actually keep him around to further my scum-belief of his scumminess and just coast by on what I had already put out there). I guess what I'm saying is that it doesn't make sense for me to really kill him at that point after I just replaced in and put my biggest efforts into putting a full case on him if I were scum, only to have to try to fabricate another case on another townie. I suspect that he was onto somebody other than me; but I haven't especially went back to check (so xRx could be a person behind that, I have no clue)

Jack made absolutely no sense to me. One thing that twinged my radar was Vi saying that she felt that Jack was the Power Role that finished off the night when nobody else really said anything about that (or even hinted that it might be the case). I thought he was relatively pro-town but he wasn't somebody that would really be a threat to scum if he attempted to make a case against them. Again, I haven't really looked back at who he suspected, but the fact that Vi thought he was a power role made me lean in that direction.

The point that I wanted to make with me asking you that is that none of them really pointed to me by your own admission; yet your gut thought that I was the last scum.

I think that had I been scum all alone after Jahudo died, I would've went after Zach first of all, then probably Vi and possibly Percy or you {Sotty}. DDD and I have had a rather tumultuous relationship that I think I could've played on, xRx/hohum/jack all appeared to be weaker players for a mislynch target and then I would've only had to kill or mislynch one more person (probably could've fooled ekiM, wouldn't have pegged him as a mislynch target though)

[Amished]

Yeah, whatever works for me I guess but meh. Almost surprising that xRx still can't comment on anything but that and still only voting for you, DDD.

[Amished]

DDD: Vi still your top suspect?
xRx: Why is DDD scum to you?

[Amished]

(She thinks you're full of crap and are likely scum)

[Amished]

Awwww, sad.

@Sotty: Different people have different weightings attached to them. Something small from Vi is equivalent to something larger from xRx which is equivalent to some newb claiming scum first post. I have a higher standard of play from Vi so small things that rub me absolutely the wrong way from her do count more against her for me. Especially this last attack of DDD; I don't understand that at all and don't think that it's coming from a townie. Which is why I'm 7.4 on the belief that Vi is still scum (the other 2.6 is Reck)

It's like this:
Vi: I expect really good town play. If something small is off that I don't agree with once or twice; I view her to be really strong scum.
xRx: He doesn't even know what he's doing 90% of the time. If there's something weird from him I'm betting that he doesn't even know what the implications are. So he has more leniency for scumtells, so to speak. Also, I'm wary of my "cute little theories" (my term) as I've been burnt on them more than they work out

Anyways: I'm Ralph Berger (also known as "Sonny"). I'm a Paranoid Gun Owner. I was hoping scum would claim a PR and that they targeted me somewhere so I could really call them out on their bullshit, but it appears that scum are scared.

Back on D3 when I asked for a massclaim I always just assume that nights are the normal length so a no-kill would be from a doc or jailkeeper or something. I didn't want them to target me as we'd lose a power role (as well as me saying "yippee kay yay motherfuckers" in my first post showing that I was gun-ho or whatever. Yes, bad breadcrumb but I was never good at them anyways). Also, if you go back, when I said that if Percy and Zach would've been lynched, the game would be over I believed that they were both scum and then if one was lynched, the other one would shoot me for pegging them and going after them (which would've ended in a town win) It also accounts for my weird "I'm obv-town" comment after Vi asked me if I wanted to be NK'd... I wanted to say yes, but it would've been kinda obvious...

When it was brought up that N1 was 10 minutes I tried to get away from it without being too obvious. This also accounts for the passive aggressiveness that Vi noticed, I thought that getting lynches on the people I think are scummy would work well, as well as me boldly proclaiming who I thought was scum in the hopes that I would be targeted for a NK. Unfortunately I was burdened by Locke's pussified D1 play (which I'm assuming he was scared of screwing up a power role). From there I was handicapped to get into the "most pro-town" position for everybody else so I would be that threat for being unlynchable or whatever.

This kinda ties in (subconciously) about how I keep talking about how many lynches we have left. Obviously if I can implicate as many people as possible and be strong in my other stances since if it makes it to Lylo, then I wasn't targeted for a NK and I can lynch my targets anyways as they didn't kill themselves on me.

For a 3 person endgame, if the townie was lynched, typically it's an auto-scum win cause they "shoot" the last person. However, since they would kill themselves on me; it turns out to be a draw even though all threats to the town would be eliminated, there is no town left and therefore my duty as a townie would "fail"

DDD, up to you I guess.

[Amished]

DDD's claim makes me believe he's town even more, personally. I know I'm a PGO, so in order to somewhat balance my own role, there would have to be an equal number of town and scum roles that could target. We have a scum neighbor-maker and then the scum NK that could target me; and to make it so it's a relatively neutral role there's a town neighbormaker-thing and ddd's hider.

@Vi: I don't care about your boxes. I've read your games and you've helped me design setups and we got a new role made together. You have a great analytical mind, boxes or no. I don't see how you could say that you thought DDD was scum after being on both scum day long-lynches (pretty sure) and neither of the town quicklynches. It just seems like a huge oversight when you've brought up your wagon analysis earlier this game so it is something that you look at. To ignore something like that... just outrageous in my eyes.

[Amished]

EBWOP:

@Sotty: How does DDD's claim potentially affect your earlier NK-analysis of Percy's death?

[Amished]

/headdesk.

Lynch Vi or xRx today, I really don't care which after the abomination that was 1125. You all figure it out.

[Amished]

Essentially that whole last paragraph.

You first state that you think either DDD or I are more likely scum (scum is a PR). You then state that too many power roles makes the town powerful (as if we are telling the truth), but the power roles aren't that powerful (so we could be town, nullifying your first position that a claimed PR is scum). You basically say that you could lynch anybody without giving a strong stance in any way, shape or form.

[Amished]

No, you said:

"Last scum is a PR in my opinion"

That is DDD or me, since everybody else claimed Vanilla. You also said:

"Now, I think town being 6 VTs and 3 power roles could work... and I also think town being 5 VTs and 4 power roles is a bit too unbalanced."

leading you farther down the road of one of the PR's is lying.

You then completely nullify ALL of that with your backtracking to "we {DDD and I} aren't that powerful" and that we could be telling the truth (which completely contradicts your first sentence) and therefore you're willing to lynch either of the Vanilla claims since "I could see me lynching Vi or Sotty. "

(lazy quote tags ftw)

[Amished]

Ok, so which of DDD or Sotty would you lynch first and why?

[Amished]

Meh. Whatever. I always kinda wanted to lynch xRx after that double-voter fiasco and here's hoping my little story was right.

Unvote
Vote: xRECKONERx

[Amished]

Well shit. Now what? If I pick wrong, I get a draw. If I pick right I get a win. I believe that's what you call a free roll.

You two: Why is the other scum?

[Amished]

EBWOP: No, I don't care why you feel you're town.

[Amished]

Ugh, seriously. Eff you both. One of you is playing an excellent scum game, and both of you are doing things that I very much do as town. I hate this game, why did I decide to join?

Also, for your fun fact of the day: I have more posts than anybody else alive, and I skipped 20+ pages.

[Amished]

TTYL, at this point, I have no freaking clue. I'll be back tomorrow, with a half-serious intention of voting with whoever votes first.

[Amished]

..... Really? You're going to try to push an SK when we've never had more than one kill a night?

@ DDD: If you're not lynched and I'm not lynched, we have a happily ever after, which is still a draw.

Ok, final thoughts since I've made my decision:

DDD buddying to me when there was ample hate towards me, and having the exact same read on the game both line up with him being town from him being a "similar" role to me (i.e. power role when I'm a power role). Also, to keep my own role balanced (but somewhat swingy) I would expect two targeted town roles since we've had a scum neighbormaker (and then their NK). The pied piper isn't targeted so to keep it just as likely that I would kill town and scum; DDD has to be telling the truth about his role (yay mod-wifom)

Also, one last fact about my role that didn't matter yesterday: I have a 2 shot limitation on my role (double barreled shotgun is my "gun" of the PGO). I could take out two town or two scum (or one of each). Everything is still balanced, just swingy (which is perfectly fine, especially for a theme game).

Sotty's only redeeming factor is that early on she attacked power roles a lot. I tend to be a lightning rod for those when I'm vanilla; probably why Zach was in my initial suspicion when I first joined the game. However, both the ekiM and hohum lynches were just too fast for me to believe that all the town were on them. Oh, at this point:

@xRx: You're the one that's fucking retarded for being an insolent ass throughout the game. Fuck off if you're going to personally insult us for your poor play. Especially when 90% of the time you had your vote parked on DDD it was for personal reasons.

Therefore: I fully believe DDD to be a town power role, therefore Sotty is the only one left.

Vote: Sotty

DDD, I hope to God that I'm right about you.

[Amished]

DDD, I hope to God that I'm right about you.

You are, though I'm still not sure about trusting you.

~~~

I have no idea why you would assume a happily ever after/draw without knowing the scum win con. And I still think my 1148 holds true.

I asked VP what would happen in a lylo situation on April 24th at 5:29 PM (is when I got my response) when I was thinking about a claim and how since only one scum left what would happen if I was mistaken and lynched a townie in a 3 person endgame.

Look, I'll keep this short. I've been active as hell trying to find scum. I've explained my reasoning for everything as far as I know. Like I mentioned right away, I have more posts than both you or Sotty. Yeah, some are fluff but I questioned a hell of a lot of people too. I stuck to my beliefs, I didn't come up with some ridiculous SK thought about you(what would've happened to the NK on 2, 3, 4 or 5?)

For her, she's been the leader of a townie quicklynch on both ekiM and hohum (after hohum got away from L-1 like 3 times before that). Her reaction to my claim was a nebulous "that would explain him getting to lylo" (like anybody really thought I was *that* pro-town). And just to top it off she hasn't done really anything in the last couple days except lurk her ass off and let us squabble amongst ourselves. She had a "gut" scum read on me for the longest time and now that I vote her she's finally come out with a long ass case? It's all been convenient as hell.

Oh, one last point: none of the NK's make sense for me. Especially the Percy one (or if you redirected it, which easily could be) I had a big case against Percy, I was going to push the hell out of him since I'd be the last scum alive the next day. You weren't especially suspicious of me, so targeting you OR him makes absolutely no sense to me. Jack thought I was more pro-townie as well, and I didn't really have that much of a power role read on him anyways. Zach was coming around to view me as more pro-town too. Hell, the Vi death doesn't make sense either as my focus on the last two days was her, if I were scum I woulda killed Sotty cause I think you believe me more than Vi. I'd have to throw away every small advantage I could get for the NK's to make any sense at all.

I haven't bothered to read her case against me; but if there's anything that you think is especially damning in there (I can't believe that there is) I'd be more than happy to respond to that point.

Here's hoping, I guess. Never been the greatest public speaker but I hope it's convincing enough.

[Amished]

Oh, one more thing!

I was the counter wagon to Jahudo. If I were scum with him I'd see that he wasn't really getting as much hate as I was and keep him alive for the best chances of winning. I easily could've pressed Percy and Zach for the rest of the day and just sat there waiting to see who else would really come up for a mislynch opportunity. I would've have gladly switched over there with the pressure that I was getting from everybody else.

I mean, if you think both wagons D2 were on the last two scum, knock yourself out DDD.

[Amished]

*cry*

[Amished]

How the hell did you really believe Sotty's case?

/hangs head