Mini 942: Gonzo Mafia - Game Over!

[Vi]

Vote: flinter

She probably didn't even read her role PM!

[fluffy post without confirming]

WHAT A SCOOP!

also, /confirm

Vote: Zachrulez

Least. Convincing. Random. Vote. EVAR.

[Vi]

Hey Vi, I remember a game where there was an early kerfuffle over you putting (L-X) after your votes; now I don't know the end result of all that but why no (L-X) count here?

The audience is floored as the truth finally is revealed:

--~Vi is Absent-Minded~--

Penance is promised for this oversight, but until then, know that you shall never again be disappointed!

---

Vote: xRECKONERx for reasons to be stated by DDD.

go go gadget wagon.

QFT.

He's obviously looking for someone to lash out at.

Out of all the people on your wagon, why chose kyle?

I smell a scoop coming on...
"hohum Instigates Drama, Mostly Gets Away With Nobody Noticing", end quote.

[Vi]

VI

WHAT A SCOOP!

Daykill: flinter

I apologize in advance to everyone who could vaguely be Latino.

---

Do you think Hohum is scum for saying that?

With profound, 100% confidence unheard of before on this site... Probably.
I would be voting hohum right now, but I think my interview with the prestigious winner of the Most Contrived Random Vote award is still worth keeping on schedule.

[Vi]

What interview exactly?

Ah yes, you showed!
Could you explain why you chose to vote THAT target with THAT reasoning, instead of any other?
Everyone else voted for personal reasons; yours seemed to have been chosen to be as arbitrary as possible and I know fully well that you've played with many of us before.

[Vi]

What interview exactly?

Ah yes, you showed!
Could you explain why you chose to vote THAT target with THAT reasoning, instead of any other?
Everyone else voted for personal reasons; yours seemed to have been chosen to be as arbitrary as possible and I know fully well that you've played with many of us before.

That's how I random vote, arbitrarily.

"Suspect Asked About Motivation, Claims Anti-Town Intent", end quote.

[Vi]

Voting someone for personal reasons, specifically those dealing with their playstyles or how they expect to interact, is fairly acceptable.
Voting someone for their avatar with some contrived reason is not, because it's completely irrelevant to the game.

[Vi]

However, I think we have differing ideas of what is acceptable in RVS, and you're grasping at straws if you think this is the best reason to vote someone at this point.

A bold statement coming from someone who's voting L. Lamora based on his avatar and hasn't bothered to do better.

[Vi]

Do you think Hohum is scum for saying that?

With profound, 100% confidence unheard of before on this site... Probably.
I would be voting hohum right now, but I think my interview with the prestigious winner of the Most Contrived Random Vote award is still worth keeping on schedule.

I've noted the fact that you would sooner play to maintain your status than to catch scum.

My... status?
"mafiascum mutates; is now facebook", end quote.

(In other words, that makes no sense)

[Vi]

Fine. I'll rephrase.

You would sooner play to do... what ever the fuck it is you're doing right now than to catch scum.

...and what are you basing that on? It should not be

that hard

to see what I'm saying in plain English - that I find two people suspicious and can't go after both at the same time.

@Zachrulez: So who's scum?~~

[Vi]

"Topic Does Not Explode, Vi Calls For Headline", end quote.

Vi, are you going to be posting `in character' all game?

"Questioned Avoids Direct Answer; Blanket-Replies 'Deal With It'", end quote.

If there is anything you don't understand, ask before you accuse.

---

I still don't think both of {Zach, hohum} are being genuine.
Zach playing activity police 24 hours after a game starts is pretty ludicrous, and hohum attacking me for flavor is laughable.

flinter seems to be playing similarly to what I would expect from her personality.
Mike backward (which is surprisingly difficult to type) is pinging my intuition for making posts that don't really do anything except validate his inertia.

Unvote: Zachrulez
Vote: ekiM

(L-4)
"Shred Guy Beaten Up For Vote That Really Isn't That Implausible", end quote.

@mod: xRx is voting for Zachrulez

[Vi]

Vote: Reckoner

ekiM ~ L-4 (Locke Lamora, ortolan, Vi)

Unvotes are required.

WHAT A SCOOP!

---

"Shred Guy Town Read Unearthed; Thank-You Notes Sent to Scum and Eager Townies On Convenient Wagon", end quote.
I see xRx as meaning well but doing a really poor job of... anything.
I don't know if that's a meta-indicator of alignment or not, but if nothing else

I

can understand where he's coming from and on intuition I don't think what he's doing is scum-motivated.

This is not a post restriction (certainly not an objective one), and I don't think hohum asking about it is pro-Town when there are certainly better things he could be asking about.

Not liking Vi's vote on ekiM. I'm not following the logic here, seems to be actively avoiding hohum.

Much as I wouldn't mind a vote on hohum, right now I'm looking at someone else. Again, multiple suspects, one vote. Hold me accountable to the hohum suspicion when I'm done exploring.
Until then, what is

your

opinion on ekiM?

I thought it was

interesting

that Vi noted Flutter is posting to type so far - it didn't seem to be a statement that indicated any specific thoughts about alignment but left room for defending Flutter later should the need arise.

Define please.

---

Outside of xRx I'm getting a lot of scummish reads from almost everyone who has posted since my most recent post. This isn't good.

The other person I reflexively wanted to call Town on was flinter, for her relatively guile-free post 88. However, there's something fairly substantial bothering me.
"Ambiguously Townish Game Reviewed; Early Playstyles Considerably Different", end quote.
I would like an interview with flinter about the difference.

For right now ekiM still bothers me enough that I don't want to move my vote.
---Question of the Day: Who does ekiM particularly suspect?--- (I see xRx; the rest of his posts are Spreading the Fear about me and flinter)

--Double Spoiler! Same question for Percy!--

[Vi]

I see you've now somewhat revised your view of flinter based on a previous game, so where did the rationale for your previous flinter statement come from if not meta?

flinter is obviously a calmposter. I've seen this from her in MD, and it's pretty obvious just from her overall posting tone. Which is why when I looked at flinter's scum - or Town - or something - game, I was surprised to see that she was acting more or less NOT like what I've seen ITT. Given that (apparently) she was trying to be Town in the linked game, and here she's acting much more cautiously (to the point of being almost entirely noncommittal), I had to balk. Plus I think she likes antagonizing me, so I'm more or less done liking her on a personal level.

I do agree with her opinion on xRx at least; it's just a shame that that's half of her stances from post one.

---

"hohum Posts To Defend Self; Avoids Other Topics Of Conversation", end quote.

---

Regarding post restrictions: I'm not convinced it's a post restriction. I think people who are jumping on Vi and demanding that she explain herself seem to be both (1) opportunistic and (2) paranoid.

But is it scummy?

---

I just don't have any other leads.

"Subject Not Trying To Scumhunt Yet Perfectly Fine With That", end quote.

[Vi]

Regarding post restrictions:

I'm not convinced it's a post restriction.

I think people who are jumping on Vi and demanding that she explain herself seem to be both (1) opportunistic and (2) paranoid.

I smell a scoop coming on...
First with the bolded. You posted this after Vi 107, which you were kind enough to quote in your most recent post:

This is not a post restriction

This is a strange inconsistency. Didn't you see this the first time?

Also, the reason I asked the question in the first place is because (1) opportunism is what you would expect from scum, but (2) paranoia (honest paranoia at least) is what you would expect from Town.

These aren't the only two things that have bothered me for a while now.
"New Age Cultist Tracked; Follows Trail Of Slime Throughout City", end quote.

As for kyle, his (1) weak agreement with xRx's vote, (2) weak attack of xRx's bandwagon and (3) no other substantive contributions is noted. FoS: kyle99.

FoS is scummy on policy; you of all people should know why since you were in the game where I was sigged for saying so.
What's interesting is that these kyle suspicions come from the person you're voting right now (and haven't mentioned previously). Why not vote?

and

demanding

that she

explain herself

As hohum pointed out, this never happened.

Thank you! I should also say hi to all the people I've played with before, because you are Good People (But Maybe Scum).

This is out of place. Not so much for flinter, but definitely for you - you're not this nice.

*unfair reference to Mafia 87 goes here *

Journalistic integrity demands that I not cast a new vote until I've heard from the person I'm currently voting for, but I think we can make this one exception.

Unvote: ekiM
Vote: Percy

(L-6)

---

Ekim is actually trying to answer and ask questions.

He's answering your theory questions, but that's about it...

How much experience do you have playing with kyle99?

---

No offense,

but that's some pretty weak reasoning.

Why no offense?

[Vi]

I still like my Percy vote by virtue of knowing he has been onsite since my last post.

I

dislike

Sotty7 and her Locke Lamora vote. I'm not reading Locke Lamora as scum; the reasoning behind Sotty's vote (and flinter chiding him) isn't convincing and his "tone of voice" reads Town.

I'm not particularly up to lynch kyle99 as of this five minutes.

flinter's posts squeeze every drop of incredulity out of my favorite smiley ( ).

@flinter:

How experienced are you with Mafia?

I almost regret derailing the xRx wagon. Actually, if Percy flips scum I would definitely go for xRx.

I'm getting the impression of hohum-Town; with that said, quite a few of the positive reads I'm sensing are

in spite of

how the people I'm reading are playing.
"Fear And Loathing in Gonzo Town Imminent; Unlimited Daykills Apparently Out Of Stock", end quote.

[Vi]

I have played on another forum before, with a small group of players.

This isn't the kind of answer I wanted...
How experienced, qualitatively, would you say you are with Mafia?

In case you don't, could you please unvote, because your name is so long that I thought I was lynched when I saw that votecount

This doesn't have to be malicious.

The cheese was endearing on Page 2. You can stop now.

flinter, what are you doing to find scum?

---

Is the Percy-hate all predicated on his talk about post restrictions?

Not really; what would give you that impression?

---

@xRECKONERx: You have mentioned twice that you have a meta-town-read on Vi, but you've retracted that now. What made you think that her play was town-Vi?

This isn't the right question.
The right question is "Why are you now obsessing over retracting your Town read?".

Yeah, I'll try to catch up and get some content here soon. I'm posting this in all my games: this is an incredibly stressful/busy week for me. Two mid-terms, a six minute short film project to edit, a ten minute oral Spanish presentation, and a ten page script are all due within the next five days.

Mafia has to take a backseat for a bit.

So... you don't have anything to say about the game and aren't caught up at all, but had this pressing need to warn everyone that I'm not easy to read (in spite of like nobody really calling me Town). Plus you're hanging around GD.
"Reporter Casually Acknowledges Possible RL Commitments; Disregards Them As Smokescreen", end quote.

---

I'm not sure where to go. At this point I don't care if flinter lives or dies. I'm still think it's not impossible to believe Percy is doing a ham job, but his responses today haven't been particularly terrible. ortolan is megalurking more than DDD, which is something of a dubious achievement. And xRx has pretty much inverted my Town read.

Hey hohum. Let's go back to xRx; he had more support and I think he needs the pressure more.

Unvote: Percy
Vote: xRECKONERx

(L-5)

[Vi]

Catching up with much etc.

First and foremost: flinter, what is the difference between xRx playing badly and xRx playing scummily?

Do you normally move your vote around so much on day one by the way? I can't recall you having done it to such a great extent in the past.

Only in every game. We've only played together once, and I... actually, I don't remember if I vote-hopped so much in that game in particular.

hohum bullying people around isn't really endearing or comforting considering we're going in the same directions. I really think he came off worse against ortolan. With that said, I agree with him about xRx - I don't think "people who give up and don't get replaced for no evident reason are scum" is a good policy on a logical level, but I've seen it apply a few times in my experience, with no counterexamples of Town doing the same.

I still don't care if flinter lives or dies. Between the continued let's-be-friends cheese and being entirely wrong about everything, I'm starting to doubt she has an ulterior motive; but at the same time she's unhelpful at best. With xRx giving up today, though, I don't think she's the best lynch.

I do agree with xRx that Sotty 190 is a fluffpost. I really don't want Sotty to live to endgame based on her play so far.

---

A few headlines that need to run.

"Town Fragmented And Useless; Petition Signed For Fewer, Larger Bandwagons", end quote.
"Active Players Call Cease-Fire; Let Lurkers Crawl Out From Whatever Hole They're Hiding In", end quote.
"Blatant Attempts At Daytime Coordination Heralded As The New Pro-Town Look", end quote.

[Vi]

"First Draft Of Headline Gives Opinion Of xRx; Revised Due To Being 'Nothing New'", end quote.

It's kind of hilarious that people are linking Sotty and Zach, unless I have the mafiascum family tree wrong. [/offtopic]

The last time I was here I didn't think flinter was scum (but a great D1 wagon to analyze and not a particularly bad mislynch, as mislynches go) but Jack is making me question that. You want hohum lynched for

crude language

? Sotty of all people winds up jumping from scummy to Townie? You moved your vote someplace where it's neither helpful nor credible? Really?

hohum, is your vote "locked on"? DDD, same question.

I'm having a really hard time getting reads in this game. If you're Town, please stop doing dubious things and start being Awesome. Thank you.

[Vi]

You moved your vote someplace where it's neither helpful nor credible?

What?

Read more carefully.

Right now you aren't voting anyone (or rather, you're voting for jack, Jack~). That's not

helping

anyone at all, and it's lending no

credence

to your suspicions.

As to the "no"s, you could do everyone a favor and set the story straight because this reporter can't be the only one with those questions.

[Vi]

It's looking like I'll vote xRecks, but the fact that I'm not voting anyone is irrelevant. That "by not voting your not helping" line has always been bs.

Let's go the other way then. Why not vote?

[Vi]

hohum, why are you locked on xRx in particular?

Where is everyone?

[Vi]

Two things that are interesting about kyle+xRx. One, kyle99 said he had never seen xRx as scum yet announced a "fairly Town" read, but then doubled back and said that xRx was playing to his meta and he couldn't get a good idea even though xRx was doing scummy things. That's the backtracking ekiM was talking about. But here's something else I find compelling.

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:20 pm

My opinion on xReck is fairly town. I've never played with him as scum

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:59 pm

[notice: under nine hours before the above quote]

xRECKONERx, Mafia Goon, Survived and fulfilled his win condition Day 4

kyle99 was in the above-quoted game, although he was replaced due to activity delinquency (he said he was in the hospital but didn't bother telling anyone - this was before he joined this game, so I'm presuming that incident was over when he joined this game). While kyle didn't post in the endgame, at the time he was replaced he had just voted xRx on suspicion of being scum, and I would be fairly surprised if he didn't keep up with the game even after he had replaced out.

tl;dr WHAT A SCOOP!

Unvote: xRECKONERx
Vote: kyle99

(L-6)

[Vi]

Actually, more tidbits about that game:

The only non-RVS vote I received that entire game was from kyle99.

So what do you think about what Vi said about kyle?

don't ask him questions about his scumbuddy like that; he'll talk about how he isn't into this game again

also

Re: kyle99 - he wants to lynch me despite the fact that

I've lead wagons on him as scum

more times than I have as town.

How does SpyreX do it?

WHOOOOOSH.

[Vi]

I just isoed kyle, the only scummy thing I noticed is

You make some decent points on me,

Which is kind of a weird thing to say. I would like to see kyle's response to Vi's 284 though.

I would like to see your response to Vi's 284 and 287.

[Vi]

LOL

QFT

I should probably look at kyle99's scum history sometime today (>")>

[Vi]

Hi and sorry, Jahudo~

[Vi]

Excuse me, Mr. RECKONER? What do you have to say about kyle's comment about never having played with you before as scum? *turns on tape deck*

Or for that matter, what do you think about

what I said about

kyle?

[Vi]

vote: xReck

Always up for voting him

@ekiM: I'm not straight edge. Not by a long shot. lrn2GD

Re: kyle99 - he wants to lynch me despite the fact that

I've lead wagons on him as scum more times

than I have as town.

Unvote; Vote: Kyle99

When was this?

[Vi]

I think it was Mayor Mafia and one other one that I can't seem to remember right now. It's on my wiki page.

Mayor Mafia, you mean the one where you were killed N2 and kyle99 was lynched D3? Meaning he saw you as scum in that game and most certainly knew you were scume, contradicting kyle #2.
(Also, Moai Interceptor Cannons is one of the most awesome names onsite.)

Incidentally, if kyle #2 was referring to never having been your scumpartner - another viable way to interpret kyle's post - I don't see how that would be relevant at all.

[Vi]

EBWOP:

Mayor Mafia, you mean the one where you were killed N2 and kyle99 was lynched D3? Meaning he saw you as scum in that game and most certainly knew you were

scumé

, contradicting kyle #2.

Fixed to what that word was absolutely supposed to be.~

[Vi]

I think it's strange that Vi admonished the town thusly:

"Town Fragmented And Useless; Petition Signed For Fewer, Larger Bandwagons", end quote.

...yet votes for someone without any votes on them two days later, four days before deadline. Also, the admonishment comes just after I first posted my case on hohum, and I thought it smelt a little like a chainsaw behind "Pro-Town Advice". I've already noted the interaction between hohum and Vi, and this isn't making me feel any better.

FoS: Vi

At the time I said that, there were a lot of two-person and one-person bandwagons and everyone was split up doing their own thing, and I felt nothing was getting done. However, I thought I had come across a legitimate lie from kyle99, plus the wagon was directly tied to xRx (who had the largest bandwagon at the time), plus ekiM's support. In other words, it was a new bandwagon that had potential.

I understand that my moves today have made me look like hohum's partner. Oh well. After reading through hohum's posts, I don't know if he is actually scum or just crude and single-minded. I'm fairly confident in saying that hohum and xRx are not both scum, what with hohum's locked-on xRx vote.

ortolan's reasons for voting Jack are really not good. Jack most definitely explained that FoS, and at first blush that reason was valid - ortolan jumped on kyle99 for replacing out here, but Jack with the knowledge that kyle99 replaced out everywhere would see that the replacement was not as likely to be malicious, and therefore that accusation was more likely bogus. I have no interest in lynching Jack today and would actually prefer that everyone else didn't. I think the claim that flinter *could* have been scum would be giving her a bit too much credit for being cunning.

The Sotty7 wagon would almost be a thoughtful choice if it weren't for how the wagon isn't all that viable right now due to xRx and Locke Lamora not doing anything with their votes. A lot has gone on over the weekend and Sotty not being here to comment on it isn't helping her image - I know she may not be able to help that (for a few more hours at least) but I'm saying it so it's out there. The rest of the things I don't like include her hard push on Locke Lamora (which was in large part completely overblown) without particularly trying to convince anyone to join her. I do still agree with xRx that 190 felt like fluff, especially the last two questions. Her next post on flinter seemed like putting the punishment on a bad/inexperienced player, which is how I'm reading flinter anyway, and the rest seems like bullying her around. It's not often that I have to say I'm relying on intuition because I can usually clearly identify what I don't like, but there's something I can't put my finger on about her that I feel isn't genuine.

After some reading, I think I'm going to flop on xRx. I did think his early posts were more likely to come from misunderstood Town, and he's not really playing at all like he did in his two very recent scum games. I'm willing to believe that xRx and kyle share the same alignment, and for purposes of today's lynch I'll put him down where flinter was - less likely scum so much as a giant target and arguably a liability. If that giant target gets lynched, I don't think I would gain but hopefully others (in the Town) will.

I think it would be easier for me to make a decision about xRx by looking at Jahudo, who had best tread carefully and come out with a post Really Soon Now. While it's certainly possible that kyle's lie was unintentional, etc., I'm not quick to consider that route. I would rather lynch kyle than xRx, but that's not happening Today.

DDD is hopping wagons like crazy and just told me in a no-longer-ongoing game that that's what he does as scum (and possibly D1 as well). This is simply a call-out not to let him continue this through D2.

ortolan has been playing what seems to be a very passive game so far, and he's found easy reasons to be on easy wagons all the way down (as evidenced by 313 in particular, but read for yourself!).

---

The only one of the four wagons going on right now that I particularly like is Sotty7, and that's where I'm going to vote. If I had to vote a different existing wagon, it would be hohum. If an ortolan wagon came up, I would consider that too. DDD is better left until D2 IMO.

Unvote: kyle99
Vote: Sotty7

(L-4)

[Vi]

No question except the usual one.

I'm not the type of player to gather a bandwagon to my cause by pressuring others unless I am utterly convinced I have scum or the deadline is coming, just my style.

"Deadline Approacheth; Fatalism Reigns In the Face Of Impending Doom", end quote.
Do you still hold to your Jack vote?

I think it's entirely likely that flinter replaced out of here because she didn't like us/the game.
As for "you just think I suck", well, that's the impolite way of summing up my position at the time at least

Also, I take it you two don't have to share computers.~

On the other side of the coin, the number of times you have played me as scum... well, the number's a lot higher than 0.

Even when she's Town I feel like I'm getting played by Sotty.

[Vi]

I don't agree to a DDD wagon so much. I'm fine with letting him live through the Day and then crisping him D2 if he doesn't do something spectacular then.
The second-to-last time I looked Locke Lamora was leaning Town; the last time I looked LL was doing a good job of not catching up after saying he was going to. I'll give him a chance.

After reading everything up until here, the majority of what I want to say is that I'm still waiting for people I want to hear from to post - LL, hohum, ortolan, Jahudo, a little Percy. Only five out of the other eleven players >.>

I'm curious as to how I wound up in Jack's top three, particularly aside ortolan.

Other than that, none of the arguments have really swayed me except for the usual impulse to flame xRx. But I do want to try something.

Unvote: Sotty7
Vote: ortolan

(L-6)

[Vi]

ortolan has been playing what seems to be a very passive game so far, and he's found easy reasons to be on easy wagons all the way down

Easy wagons would be DDD or possibly XreckonerX, whose wagon I have moved off.

...which doesn't contradict anything I said.

You do know you have a very very bad habit of trying to get me lynched when you're scum, a tell which has been accurate in 2/2 games (100% of the time). Why is this tell not valid in this game? On day one no less? So close to deadline having not commented on me all day? You must be trying hard to make me drop a scumread on you.

This almost made me laugh out loud.
*Unless you have an alt I don't know of, we've only played together in one game. Unless you're pre-emptively saying I'm scum in this game.~ In Election Mafia I pushed you because

surprise!

you were the scummiest person on the page, and you said that you were so intentionally. Saying that I'm scummy for pushing you when you're scummy is laughable.
*I haven't commented on you all Day because

you haven't been here

and I've been trying to sort out the mayhem from the people who HAVE been here.

Tearing my case apart on Jack/flinter and hohum is the easy thing to do, the reasoning isn't ostensibly that good. That's not to say I don't think there's a good chance of hitting scum there, especially in comparison to lynching a lurker (which is the mother of all easy lynches).

Playing OMGUS against me is the easy thing to do; the reasoning is easy to BS. That's not to say I don't think there's a good chance of hitting scum there, especially in comparison to lynching a VI (which is the mother of all easy lynches).

Lynching lurkers is hard btw.

Vi: I'm not sure how many unique players you voted but I counted seven vote movements total on day one. This leaves an effectively meaningless paper trail for your votes on subsequent days and I kind of have a hard time buying the idea that you always move your vote so erratically.

ortolan: I'm not sure how many unique players you voted but I counted

six

vote movements total on Day one. This leaves an effectively meaningful paper trail for your votes on subsequent Days and not doing the research on how I play when I already told you this is normal for me just makes you look terrible.

If it wasn't clear Vi is another potential wagon I would show interest in but I assumed no-one else would vote him.

For suspecting you. That's so low it's legitimately funny.

--

It would be good if everyone would make it clear what wagons they will support.

You got all of mine, plus Locke Lamora for the same reason you said (although I don't think it would happen).

I particularly don't like his recent vote on ortolan which is in clear contrast to his call for bigger wagons and I feel it's too close to deadline for a major change of direction.

says the person who doesn't say anything about ekiM doing

the same thing

I'm also dubious of him saying he's having a hard time getting reads; it doesn't seem to fit with the tone of his posts.

That was then; this is now

--

Now I really,

really

want an ortolan wagon. It'll most likely have to wait though.

Realistically I'll probably vote hohum at deadline, but unvoting ortolan after this "defense" would be rather terrible

[Vi]

and also in Phate's game...Deathnote, when you were scum.

lol, who's your alt
ortolan wasn't in Death Note Mafia.

I was third party trying to lynch you as scum in Election Mafia. You even admitted you were playing to be scummy in that game; how can you blame me~

History aside, this is still the most dubious tell I think I've ever seen.

It also makes sense with your really dodgily timed vote on me so close to deadline, so you can avoid taking responsibility for membership of a viable wagon.

Sotty, get over here and tell me how many times I've avoided taking credit for a wagon I've been on.

[Vi]

Hohum's been way too quiet lately and would be my 3rd lynch preference at this point.

Knowing hohum he probably flaked off the site (again).

[Vi]

Scum are hohum, Locke, and one other. DDD? Sotty? Hrm.

You're missing ortolan entirely. Why?

[Vi]

7
Hohum - ekiM, Jack, ortolan, Percy, Vi, xRx, Zach(3rd choice)

5
xRECKONERx - DDD,

hohum,

Percy, Sotty, Locke

4
Jack(flinter) - Jahudo, ortolan, Sotty, zach
Locke Lamora - Jahudo, ekiM, Vi, Sotty

3
Debonair Danny DiPietro - ekiM, Jahudo, zach
Ortolan - ekiM, Jack, Vi, Sotty
Sotty7 - Locke(?), Vi, xRx
Vi - Jack(?), Locke, ortolan

hohum's vote really is locked onto xRx

[Vi]

Also, that was a fixed version of the ekiM's chart.

[Vi]

@Vi: Did you elaborate on the "locked on" thing? Is that something hohum has done before? (I can't remember if it was in bebop or another game I should know about)

I don't remember if he's done it before. I was commenting on the irony of him saying his vote was locked before going on V/LA.

I agree that I'm bothered by how he called his vote final well before the deadline

while still listing two other suspects

. That IMO is the strongest point against him.

If xRx is scum he's playing against two games of recent meta. If I didn't have that, I would want to lynch him a lot more too.
But policy lynching isn't going to win this game - we'll run out of mislynches before we run out of VIs - so with what I have I don't think he's the best play at all.

I'm a little curious about how ekiM's intent chart just happens to have hohum as the only truly viable wagon.

tbqh I don't know who the scum are. I don't want an xRx wagon. I'm less against a Jack wagon, but I didn't get anti-Town vibes from flinter. And really I'm not altogether confident in hohum. The only person I really, really want to see dead is ortolan, whose defense had little to do with what I said and more to do with attacking me with one of the worst arguments I've seen in a long while. Locke Lamora's 368 feels like a chainsaw - apparently just after attacking ortolan I became worthy of mention.

Aaaand full disclosure - I absolutely, positively have to leave by 11:30 tomorrow (4.5 hours before deadline). I'm not going to be able to pay a lot of attention up until then because I'll be studying for a luckgarbage test. Please come to a decision before I have to leave.

I'll reread and see if there's anything else to talk about. Until then, go go ortowagon :arrow:

[Vi]

And you were lecturing me about my vote being somewhere that wasn't "helpful".

Your vote wasn't on anyone. Mine's on scum. tyvm

[Vi]

And you were lecturing me about my vote being somewhere that wasn't "helpful".

Your vote wasn't on anyone. Mine's on scum. tyvm

-Your vote is doing jack, VI~

You're not

helping

anyone and it's lending no

credence

to your dedication.-

You're basically wrong, and this argument is stupid.

Why don't you want to lynch ortolan? There are plenty of people who have voiced interest in lynching him.

[Vi]

Sorry, I still like ortolan+Locke Lamora. If (note "if") Zach and Jahudo acquiesce to an ortolynch - which shouldn't be a decision that would take long to make on their parts - that puts him up to 6; quite a bit more considerable a possibility. Since I have a stronger scumread on ortolan, I would be much more pleased with a lynch thattaway and would gladly take whatever consequences may come of it.

(Full disclosure: I'm well aware that if hohum is lynched and flips scum I'm going to look extremely bad. I don't care.)

[Vi]

Oh right, I didn't see "ortoSSK" on my vote spreadsheet for that game. Sorry >.>

Anyway, when I saw you were in this game I was really really really hoping this wouldn't get personal again, but etc.

can someone explain to me why it's so hard to get Vi lynched when he's obv-scum? Do you think maybe he's capable of faking his "protown" play considering he never gets lynched and I'm apparently the only one who can consistently read him (although he usually calls the mod in to try to get me out of the game when that's the case anyway)

So let me get this straight.
*It is

inexplicable

for me to have a scum read on you.
*You are the

only one

who can read me as scum.
That's only reasonably narcissistic.

My side of the meta argument is here. If you want where I told ortolan off on a personal level, that's my next post, although it was an aside in a much larger post (note: Gorrad was indeed Town, MBL was indeed scum, and Starbuck was indeed scum, although I didn't know any of that at the time).

That's all I'm going to dredge up. I'm still in favor of an ortolan lynch, although people not posting overnight isn't encouraging.

---

I can't say I'm particularly enthusiastic about any of these wagons. I'm going to read back and decide where best to place my vote as the Reck wagon is clearly not happening.

ortolan

[Vi]

@Vi: Did you elaborate on the "locked on" thing? Is that something hohum has done before? (I can't remember if it was in bebop or another game I should know about)

I don't remember if he's done it before. I was commenting on the irony of him saying his vote was locked before going on V/LA.

I agree that I'm bothered by how he called his vote final well before the deadline

while still listing two other suspects

. That IMO is the strongest point against him.

I don't think that happened. When did hohum go on V/LA, and when did he say his vote was locked on? All I can find is you asking if his vote was "locked on", and he said yes.

hohum reported in wounded here, and I'm not going to hold that against him. I was simply pointing out irony.

hohum's (IIRC) last three posts in isolation - saying "yes my vote is locked onto xRx" "By the way I still want Percy to die" "In fact I would rather be voting flinter, Percy, and xRx at the same time" - seem to contradict, unless hohum has a different idea of "locked on" than everyone else.

[Vi]

Jahudo: When I say "locked on" I mean final. And when I say "final" I mean "choo choo call me back when you lynch this person; I'm not moving my vote". I can understand if that wasn't clear.
With that in mind, why would hohum say that about xRx over the two other people he called out as suspicious? Yes, xRx was scummiest at the time, but to come out and say that nothing the others would do would put them over him is more than a bit presumptuous.

Ignoring that I was paraphrasing hohum from memory I'm not sure how

In fact I would rather be voting flinter, Percy, and xRx at the same time"

is a misrep of

I've only got one vote. If I could vote all 3 of them I would.

This is just a disagreement on a tell I guess. I think scum would want to keep their options open longer, but town feeling really confident in a wagon are owning up to it more.

I believe scum are more likely to fake final confidence.

Vi is bumping up my suspect list quick.

Just briefly, why?

[Vi]

Vi, it looked like your paraphrasing implied that hohum was equally suspicious of flinter, percy and recks. Yes, "at the same time" could mean "if I had multiple votes", but you're still arguing that hohum could possibly move his suspicions of flinter and percy up after his vote became final. But his other posts explain why he wasn't going to do that.

I'm not sure how flinter could become more suspicious to hohum, since he had already replaced out before hohum made his vote final.

And I'm not sure how Percy could become more suspicious to hohum, since hohum said he would specifically deal with Percy the next day before hohum made his vote final.

There's this thing called "changing your mind" that people occasionally try. Saying your vote is final means that you have zero plans to do so, which is something seldom seen and more often done by scum.

I'm suspicious of you for misrepresenting hohum. That's all for now.

'Must be some pretty impressive suspicion if I wound up bumped to third place...

I've got under two hours left and the only people who are getting lynched at this juncture are Jack and hohum. Neither of them are top choices for me, but I get the impression that whoever I vote for will be the person getting lynched considering that the wagons are tied at the moment. I'll think about it.

[Vi]

You guys should read post 423 again.

But unless it happens liek soon, I'm not going to know whether he will extend the deadline or not before I leave.

So let's try this.

Mod: Deadline extension plz

[Vi]

Let's not bring past drama into this thread. I'm going to discuss it with ortolan and

if

he wants to replace out still, I will be extending the deadline to Friday.

I will update everyone soon.

[Vi]

Saying your vote is final means that you have zero plans to do so, which is something seldom seen and more often done by scum.

You've seen that more often done by scum? I'm not sure I've ever seen it actually, but I like empirical data. Lacking that, I just feel like its a bad play for scum to make.

If scum make a final vote on a town wagon that gets to a lynch, the next day that scum is open to every suspicion going along with his decision. Like, "this guy was also your suspect and look what he did near deadline! Die scum die!"

If scum makes a final vote on a town wagon when a competing wagon is on scum that gets to a lynched, the next day town will wonder why someone was no way going on the scum wagon. Scum will be under suspicion.

If scum makes a final vote on a wagon that doesn't go to a lynch, and town is lynched somewhere else they're open to the suspicion that they're vote was being wasted on a wagon that wouldn't go anywhere. They effectively disowned the lynch wagon.

If scum makes a final vote on a scum wagon, well that's just pretty pro-town actually

I'd love to have DDD lecture you on this.

1) doesn't really happen in practice all that often, unless I'm being delusional again.
On the other hand, scum have the benefit of being able to justify sticking to a Town wagon while maintaining a very closed view of the game.

2) is granted.

3) rarely happens at all unless the person who got lynched was obvscum and there's no blame for being on that lynching wagon.

4) etc.

I'm pretty sure everyone was already aware of No Lynch at deadline; did you have any doubt?

---

I don't necessarily hate LL 437 except for how his reasons for voting flinter are about as bad as the ones he says are being put onto hohum.
Plus, why do you like ortolan's meta point on xRx?

[Vi]

Vi: because that's exactly what I thought about Reckoner.

When I played with town-Reck,

he never expressed a desire to give up despite being wagoned to claiming on D1. His 'lynch me' post was a clear departure from that and I immediately thought exactly what ortolan did.

May I see that game?

[Vi]

Huzzah!

:balrog:

(what do you call it, authority or popularity that never gets you lynched?)

I'm good at what I do.
It's certainly not popularity.
I don't think anyone who has never played with me (flinter, Jack, kyle99, ekiM, Locke Lamora? in this game) thinks I have much authority.

What did you think of the "jumping on easy wagons" accusation?
(wagons were ekiM - semi-random, 4th on xRx, 3rd on flinter, bullied into 1st on hohum, 2nd on kyle as you saw, and 4th on Jack as soon as Jack called him out for the kyle vote)

Talking of ekiM, I'd like to see what he has to say about what has gone on recently.

[Vi]

I'd love to have DDD lecture you on this.

"Individual seeks to punish opposition with speech from overbearing bore"

...end quote.

Percy 428: "I'm too tired and drunk to make a post with content... but I'll be damned if I'm not too tired and drunk to make a neat graphic to go with my post"

...which is one neat graphic more than your average post?

---

hohum later finalized his vote for xRx, on no extra evidence, so he thinks what xRx is bad enough to be auto-worth a lynch, final vote, no questions asked.

Juuuuuuuuust checking, but did you read that me vs. Jahudo discussion earlier?

The whole conspiracy about hohum "waiting" before accusing xRx is utter dreck. In case you missed it, hohum was multiposting, catching up to each response as he saw it. This should be obvious by how hohum finally got to flinter's post "don't lynch xRx" long after she actually made it and hohum had already responded to earlier posts twice.

The point about including a link in your vote is also not very good. If you have a meta argument, you back it up. Aside from that, flinter never threatened to replace out like xRx did.

The point about ignoring flinter is kind of not based in reality, because from where I'm sitting flinter replaced out

just after hohum quasi-flamed her

. You call that ignorance?

And what interests me most is that you're one of the few people who is really pushing for a popular lynch right now in a game where most people are lost and have a bunch of vague suspicions.
"Scum Want To Control Lynch, Fight To Maintain Status Quo When Beneficial", end quote.

To answer your first objection immediately, yes, I've ignored you all Day... for rather stupid reasons tbh. (Unlike flinter I didn't take your reading-the-rules-post as a Town-tell, but rather a PR tell.) I think you need some microscope time.

Kyle replaced out of this game and another game (where a cop had a guilty on him) with the same message, but he's still involved in games on the site.

---

I haven't had time to read the xRx meta game (or the kyle game). I'll get around to it sometime.

[Vi]

I'm not really thinking you're barking up the right tree with hohum, Percy Perce >.>

[Vi]

I read LOST for xRx-Town. I don't think it's valid meta evidence because xRx was the Cop in that game; when he acted like he wasn't going to be lynched, he

knew

it.
"Bender Not Programmed For Superior Meta Reasoning", end quote.

I found the game where kyle is still active. I've come to a conclusion, but I would be breaking some rules RECK-style if I did. For now, as I said, I think Jahudo should not be ignored in coming Days.

Talking of bad-faith meta and RECK, I really want to know why xRx thinks he has any idea of what I play like as Town.
"Only Experiential Town Meta Is From Ongoing Game Identified As 'Gonzo Mafia'", end quote.

I (still) believe all of ekiM's points are utter horseradish contrived to push a hohum lynch, to give a particular example because of what LL said in 485. BloodCovenent DID give warning+AtE before replacing out in the linked game; flinter did not. (I'm actually curious as to what hohum thinks of ortolan tbh.) The case is so bad and so positioned that it's blatantly scummy on the level of play that I know ekiM plays at (he was on the invitation list for the F&E game I just got out of IIRC).
However, I agree that this should be hohum's argument if he's here to make it. I would very much appreciate it if he would HTHU.

Cobalt not catching up fills me with some level of confidence about my vote. Cobalt is an overposter and not the best of scum players based on TTGL Mafia; unless there's some family event I don't know of his silence is telling.

Vi: you suggested that ortolan going after the VIs was scummy; on the same grounds, what do you make of ekiM's early post where he listed kyle, Reck and myself in his scummy category?

I actually said that ortolan was going after easy wagons, not VIs. Offhand I don't have a problem with that particular post; however, I suspect that if ekiM is scum, kyle is not (based on that post). ekiM was joining Jack's vote for kyle; aside from orto jumping late on the Jack/flinter wagons (twice) they haven't voted for each other so far. ekiM/Jack/orto sounds fairly plausible ta me; the only Town read it contradicts is the one I had on flinter (not Jack) and I don't have any particular scum reads outside that beyond Locke Lamora (which isn't strong enough to hold on to at this point) and kyle (who as I said I want to reserve judgment on).

So yeah. I don't normally do associative deduction but this actually works out really nicely.

[Vi]

hohum wagon:
[x] ortolan (187) first (of four)
[x] Jack (273) third (of four)
[x] ekiM (365) third (of four)

xRx wagon:
[x] ortolan (86, 109) attempted fifth, fourth (of four/five)
[ ] flinter
[x] ekiM (26) fourth (of four/five)

flinter/Jack wagon:
[x] ortolan (123) third (of five)
[ ] flinter/Jack
[ ] ekiM

kyle99 votes:
[x] ortolan (292) second (of two; different wagon)
[x] flinter (120) first
[x] ekiM (137) second (of two)

ortolan votes:
[ ] ortolan/Cobalt
[x] Jack (475) third (of three so far)
[ ] ekiM

---

Wagon Placement/Wagons = Average Wagon Placement

Jahudo/kyle99 (without ortovote) 12/3 = 4.00
Jahudo/kyle99 (including failed ortolan vote) 15/4 = 3.75
ortolan (including failed xRx vote) 21/7 = 3.00
ekiM 14/5 = 2.80
DDD 11/4 = 2.75
L. Lamora 11/4 = 2.75
ortolan (without xRx vote) 16/6 = 2.67
------AVERAGE ~2.25
flinter/Jack 8/4 = 2.00
hohum 6/3 = 2.00
Vi 12/7 = 1.71
xRx 10/6 = 1.67
Sotty7 6/4 = 1.50
Percy 4/3 = 1.33
Zachrulez 4/3 = 1.33

Note that this data is becomes more reliable as more votes are cast. The average number of votes cast at this point is about 4.5, so I would anticipate that this data is more accurate for players who have voted five times or more.
And of course scum are more likely in general to have a higher-than-average wagon placement, especially in a game where Town is as confused and divided as this one.

While Jack falls below the average here that doesn't particularly preclude him from being scum. Everyone else below the average seems Townie enough to me, so it's a matter of using best judgment on the rest.

[Vi]

Jahudo simulpost ruined the "tripleposting because I'm that awesome" post I was going to make

[Vi]

I'm confused. How do I get a wagon placement of 12 or 15?

kyle99

xRx (23) - third
flinter (133) - fifth

Jahudo

Jack (406) - fourth
ortolan (457, failed) - third

3 + 5 + 4 = 12 from three votes
3 + 5 + 4 + 3 = 15 from four votes

[Vi]

What the bejeesus was that?

Keep bussing for now. I'll explain later.

[Vi]

Ah, so jumping on a wagon late + not being on many wagons = possibly suspicious?
And starting wagons + being on alot of wagons = possibly pro-active pro-town?

I can see the theory behind it but there's variables to consider. vote hopping may be opportunistic in some situations. random vote stage votes don't carry as much weight as votes right now.

Anyone you want to defend with that?

[Vi]

I (still) believe all of ekiM's points are utter horseradish contrived to push a hohum lynch, to give a particular example because of what LL said in 485. BloodCovenent DID give warning+AtE before replacing out in the linked game; flinter did not.

This is just false. BC gave no warning before replacing out. For the second time: have you read the linked content hohum provided?

So he requested replacement and threw an AtE in on the way out. Aside from the silliness of the order mattering, I'm reasonably sure the emphasis was more on the emo than the actual quitting. I can only be reasonably sure because I'm arguing for hohum, which isn't a position I particularly like being in but etc..

I'd also like to know why you said: "The point about ignoring flinter is kind of not based in reality, because from where I'm sitting flinter replaced out just after hohum quasi-flamed her. You call that ignorance?". Do you agree that that was a non sequitur?

From your perspective where "ignoring flinter" was directly related to her replacement, it would be a

non sequitur

, yes.

...actually, this case isn't that bad. Most of the mis/understandings come from hohum being ambiguous.
Well now that killed the euphoria from this morning.

The case is so bad and so positioned that it's blatantly scummy on the level of play that I know ekiM plays at (he was on the invitation list for the F&E game I just got out of IIRC).

Are you saying I'm using a case that I know is terrible, or that I'm so blinded by being scum that I can't see that it's terrible? Neither makes much sense.

The former, for reference.

---

I seriously hope someone kills

[xRx]

tonight; scum, third-party, town-aligned, whoever, just someone make him dead.

A vig would have plenty of business in this game.

[Vi]

I understand 498, I just know Vi is willing to put in that much effort as scum as well as town and from the one game where she pulled out those numbers there was no significant trend to be found in them. So while it's interesting I'm not sure it's useful at all.

It's not effort really.
But ignoring that, I waited to use that in F&E until I knew it would be in my advantage.

[Vi]

So maybe you have the experience that you feel comfortable using the information to make some sort of generalization, but looking at that game it's impossible for me to see a trend; hence interesting not useful.

Ja, I hope I'm not entirely wrong with those numbers. (I don't think I am though)
I'd really like to ask the person who gave me the idea to try that kind of stuff for advice on how to make it more effective, but suffice to say he's indisposed at the present year.

Also, it works better against inexperienced scum... and scum who don't already know that kind of attack is coming~

--

The order matters because threatening to quit and actually quitting are different things. Actually quitting is more similar to actually quitting than threatening to quit is. I don't know how many ways I can re-state this without stumbling across the wording that makes me comprehensible.

I disagree but etc.
Out of perhaps-relevant curiosity, which (if either) do you consider the greater scumtell between actually replacing out and whining about replacing out?
My opinion is colored by this game (ISO muffinhead-scum starting at post #12)

---

"Hi! I'm DDD, and I act like an arrogant pompous twat for no fucking reason whatsoever!"

In any case, given the points: DDD-lynch is preferable to simply make him dead because he's awful, but since that's obviously not happening,

You'll even win at IRONY!

[Vi]

So maybe you have the experience that you feel comfortable using the information to make some sort of generalization, but looking at that game it's impossible for me to see a trend; hence interesting not useful.

Ja, I hope I'm not entirely wrong with those numbers. (I don't think I am though)
I'd really like to ask the person who gave me the idea to try that kind of stuff for advice on how to make it more effective, but suffice to say he's indisposed at the present year.

Also, it works better against inexperienced scum... and scum who don't already know that kind of attack is coming~

Why did you bust it out at this point? Nothing seems to have come of it and introducing it to the thread has compromised any future use of it in this game.

Because I wanted to show why the people I wanted to vote were objectively more worthy of suspicion. That others have set it aside isn't something I can help. And it would have had more impact if I hadn't 180d on one of my reads in my next post.

I still think it's a halfway decent substitute for the traditional Town/scum tier list, at least for my opinion. Not in perfect order, of course.

The order matters because threatening to quit and actually quitting are different things. Actually quitting is more similar to actually quitting than threatening to quit is. I don't know how many ways I can re-state this without stumbling across the wording that makes me comprehensible.

I disagree but etc.

What do you disagree with? This is what I'm having trouble with. Is anyone seriously going to tell me that xRx has behaved more like BC than flinter did?

As I showed you in my previous post, I think the whining is more telling than actually replacing out.

However, if flinter had made a hatepost on the way out, it would have been very much like what BC did so etc.

Out of perhaps-relevant curiosity, which (if either) do you consider the greater scumtell between actually replacing out and whining about replacing out?

?! Rec

didn't threaten to replace out

. He said "lynch me, I'm bored". It's like I'm reading a different thread.

For the sake of completeness, the latter.

It was meant to be a theoretical question so I could see where you stood on the issue. I didn't have xRx in mind when asking this (although later he DID whine about not wanting to replace out )

Okay so I'll try to find my way out of Bizarro World now.

[Vi]

<- Gone for the Day; won't be back before deadline

Cobalt's silence is deafening, lynch him, etc.

[Vi]

Basically between kyle replacing out and ortolan's two-step pressure on kyle, Jahudo looks like obvscum. Sorry again, Jahudo
That most recent post doesn't do him any favors at all either.

But for the moment there's a lingering question that I would like to see resolved about someone else who left and didn't come back.

Vote: hohum

(L-5)

Also, Neighborizers always die before D2~

[Vi]

so where are either of our top suspects anyway

(hohum, Jah00do)

[Vi]

just saying

ortolan's vote on hohum was literally provoked by hohum

sort of like scien did in this game

i would not be surprised if that was a bout of unnecessary distancing

[Vi]

To VP Baltar, a ten minute night does not give people the amount of time they need to kill Reckoner. Please remedy this in the future, plz k thx.

What gives you the impression that the ten-minute Night was accidental?

[Vi]

If Percy is scum, he's beating the proverbial pants off hohum-Town in terms of looking believable. (This is basically what xRx is saying.) The difference between D1 hohum (under little suspicion and in control of the game) and D2 hohum (not either of those) is pretty jarring.

I don't have a problem at all with what was said on Page 9 and ortolan being scum with hohum; it doesn't go against my theory that ortolan really didn't want to vote hohum in the first place but hohum forced the issue.

I'm not really feeling the Locke Lamished hate very much atm tbh.

Correction for Percy:

Percy should be lynched

as well

. Pretty sure that will win the game. Who wants a lynch now?

Why he thinks there are only two scum in this game is bizarre, and even if he doesn't, it's certainly what he's implying.

"As well" implies more than one lynch implies more than one scum remaining.

@Amished: I stopped caring about Sotty7 and Zachrulez several pages ago.
I am notoriously bad at reading both of them, and in spite of them acting as a family unit in more ways than one throughout the game they don't seem to be where the scum are ITT.

If I had to say there were scum in that general direction, I would agree with DDD that Zach is the one more likely to be Town.

[Vi]

Anyhow, I'm very much soured on the hohum lynch atm. Let's wagon Jahudo instead of him or amished please.

This

Troper

Journalist would like some details on this scoop.

In addition, the editorials are curious as to when and why ekiM lost his flavor for the hohum lynch he so cherished D1.

[Vi]

I read the game amished linked too and now I'm getting the feel that hohum is a bad townie scapegoat. Of course, he could be mafia just like he could be just a bad townie scapegoat. But I don't have the feel of it.

I've certainly seen hohum as a bad Townie before, but he was slightly better than this
Actually, I don't think I've ever seen hoscum.

I wouldn't be against a Jahudo lynch if it came to it. kyle99 needed it and Jahudo hasn't particularly been SuperTown.

[Vi]

In addition, the editorials are curious as to when and why ekiM lost his flavor for the hohum lynch he so cherished D1.

I'm waiting for Amished to catch up and hohum to... do anything.

Amished

is

caught up. Does waiting on hohum really matter that much?

I feel lost in the pages that have gone by in the last few days. I'll read them eventually.

[Vi]

Sorry Vi; I want to get a feel for people in the game while I'm here rather than extrapolating from the rest of the game.

Nya, I've been lost since before crunch time D1. It's not your fault.

So you're calling Percy+Jahudo? I'm not against a Jahudo lynch; Percy is kind of iffy just based on intuition/the usual craplogic that sounds good at the time.

That's without reading your posts, mind.

[Vi]

In new scientific breakthroughs, putting this game off doesn't make catching up any easier. >.> I see some decent points I'd like to look into, but I just don't feel up to it tonight.

I'll try to go through this tomorrow morning.

[Vi]

hohum - While I'm not going to pretend that my swampedposts are helping discussion, at least I've given you that courtesy. hohum... nothing. At all. He's promised to catch up. He hasn't. He's been onsite. He's barely avoiding prods. Etc.
I don't think Amished's "too scummy to be scum" reasoning for letting hohum go is sufficient.

ekiM - I feel that ekiM has been hiding in the background, except when pushing hohum. This then leads me to a dilemma - if hohum is scum, ekiM is very likely not; and I'm suspect that the inverse is true as well. I'm still waiting to hear about this apparent change of heart about hohum.

xRECKONERx - Are you enjoying this game? I'm really enjoying this game.

DDD - I'm still watching him, but nothing to see, etc.

Zachrulez - I'm not entirely sure why he did the following:
*Teamed up with Sotty (household jokes aside) by defending her and joining her votes
*Unvoted Jahudo based on what Jack did
*Not commented on hohum for quite the long while when he voted Cobalt for essentially what he's doing now
I don't have an overall read on him beyond the Townish idea I got from the very beginning of the game.

Jack - I'm having a difficult time seeing Jack-scum at this point, particularly via association with ortolan.

Sotty7 - Sotty has been a cipher, wrapped in an enigma, smothered in secret sauce. ...okay, maybe not that much. But I still don't see what she did in L. Lamora first thing, or why she said my "Percy case had bite" (#7) when she spent a paragraph cutting it down. Other random things are like "what is your obsession with DDD's vote" when flinter mentioned it once; how she specifically said she would read hohum+Percy+ortolan twice, nominally mentioned ortolan each time, but focused on Percy. She wins points for continuing to push Jack a little in spite of the wind no longer blowing that way, but I'm still not really convinced. Outside the Locke Lamora vote earlier Today, most of what she's said Today seems like small talk.

Amished - I really don't have a reason to suspect Amished, and considering that he kept on digging through the game while there was a threat to lynch him I'd say he's working with Town motivation. In addition, I don't think that L. Lamora was that scummy, despite Sotty's protests to the contrary and him winding up on the wrong side of the ortolan wagon.

Jahudo - Jahudo has managed to suspect everyone in this game except hohum, Zach, and until recently Sotty7. I don't agree with the majority of his suspicions, for that matter. On paper I think he would make a passable scumpartner for ortolan; however, I think he's putting in a bit too much effort for scum in his situation.

Percy - Percy's first few posts are twitchvote-worthy for reasons I threw out a long time ago. Percy exaggerating and tunneling isn't really anything new; while I haven't seen Percy as scum that sort of thing isn't outside his Town meta. I

am

bothered by how it took Percy a few posts to get into character, though. Overall I'd place him Townside though.

Vi - Needs to post in reporter flavor more.

---

I think that one of the hot points of contention ITT is how scum would likely act against their partners - would they chainsaw for them, ignore them, or actively bus them? I would say {chainsaw -> bus -> ignore} going from least to greatest probability based on the current meta.

Open question. How likely is it that Cobalt was bussed by both scumpartners, given the circumstances?

Vi - 357
DDD - 415
Cobalt replaces ortolan - 468
Jack - 475
Jahudo - 497
Sotty7 - 512
xRx - 520
Zach - 531

hohum - flaked(?), not voting
Percy - longtime hohum voter (201)
ekiM - somewhat more recent hohum voter (365)
Locke Lamora - recent Jack voter (437)

[Vi]

Not-really-simulposted by DDD "hinting" at me.

Why jump to Jahudo now?

[Vi]

@Zachrulez:

*The list format - The significance is that I didn't put a lot of effort into formatting that post after stream-of-consciousnessville.

*Defending Sotty7 - Only one person put a case out on Sotty - that person being someone most people don't listen to anyway (don't tell him that though). You haven't expressed suspicion of DDD and AFAIK not said anything about seeing Sotty as Town (as opposed to "not scummy that you know of")... so... why?

What do you think of my heavy implication that I don't see scum chainsawing if they don't have a clear advantage in doing so?

*Change of opinion re: Locke Lamora - If I didn't have a problem with ortolan with Locke Lamora, I wouldn't have posted #53 on D1, no?

I'm going to assume you find me scummy?

*Amished vs. Locke Lamora - I'm willing to call Town on LL. I haven't had a reason to call scum on Amished... so.

If you're trying to P.O. Amished, you're doing a good job.

--

I'll look into what Amished is saying when I get to it.

[Vi]

Yeah, and what other games have I had any type of long lasting relationship of sorts with like 3/4ths of the playerlist?

Didn't you just call us complete strangers?

Which isn't to say that it's impossible for you to have some anti-town role that isn't dependent on being in Orto's scumteam...

...and yet somehow Amished's partner? in a game where your case on Amished has a lot to do with how Locke Lamora worked against the ortolan lynch? in a game where the scumteam has been revealed as "Mafia"?
Are you positing that as a theory you would like everyone to consider?

[Vi]

I'm still interested in the thought process that led to your change of opinion regarding Locke/Amished though.

The thought process, in what is becoming a disturbing trend for me, was based on a faulty understanding of the game - I thought LL campaigned harder than he did against the ortolan wagon. Now that I know what to reread for (and am spending more than seven seconds on it), I can see where you're coming from, definitely. What's most frustrating is that he can no longer be questioned for things like

Vi: you suggested that ortolan going after the VIs was scummy; on the same grounds, what do you make of ekiM's early post where he listed kyle, Reck and myself in his scummy category?

Notice that his major issue with me had to do with me trying to start a fresh wagon near deadline... so why bring up ekiM, who definitely had no votes?

Reckoner: DDD wagon is not happening. If you favour the Cobalt lynch, vote for Cobalt.

Here he acknowledges the Cobalt wagon but expresses no opinion about it, which at this present time would be rather helpful to know.

With all that said, I don't have the impression that Amished is scum and I'll take another look at him momentarily. But I'm no longer opposed to the wagon.

*Defending Sotty7 - Only one person put a case out on Sotty - that person being someone most people don't listen to anyway (don't tell him that though).

But Reck didn't put together a case on Sotty...

Hey wait a minute...

Great comeback.

Where is Sotty7?

[Vi]

If this is right then hohum should hang.

From what I understand he's onsite enough to mod a Newbie game right now. Even assuming that he's busy enough to just do that, why hasn't he

said anything to anyone

about that?

What would you expect scum to do differently in that situation?

Address the wagon, stress out, press something he's already seen, something other than keep digging through the game as if it was more important than defending himself.

Again... why can't scum put effort into a game?

They can. They usually don't.

So defending scum is a towntell?

Flagrant defense? I think so.

Would you like to come to any conclusions after all those questions?

[Vi]

@mod: Has hohum picked up his prod?

---

@Amished: What was the point of your second post where you asked questions/made random comments to people? It seems like the only really meaningful question you had to ask was toward me.

What do you think of the people on your wagon in regards to why they're voting you?

I have to agree that Percy definitely exaggerated his case on you.

@Percy:

Are you always like that? Or rather, have you always been like that?

However, I don't think what Jazz did in LMS compares to what Percy did for you, largely because Percy actually defended against your invisible case on him whereas Jazzmyn just went on the attack and voted you. I can certainly see why you would read his reaction as scummy though.

Hey Amished, what would you think of switching your vote to Jahudo? The only people you would disappoint (Jahudo aside) are hohum and xRx.~

[Vi]

Jahudo - I don't see ortolan and hohum "at odds" with each other. I see ortolan ambiguously calling hohum meta-scum.

As for hohum forcing ortolan into voting him, did you read why I thought that looked scummy? (If not, it parallels this)

Now that you know the alignments of both

[Scien and Vi, scum"partner"s]

, please don't ever start the game like this.
Everybody was kind enough to pretend this never happened, but all it did was needlessly annoy me and make the person in question look scummy.

[Vi]

In that game, Scien-scum immediately voted me-scum in an obvious attempt to provoke me, throwing as much garbage (so much garbage) as he could find along the way.
Needlessly to say, moving my vote his way was very easy to do.

Similarly, I think hohum intentionally bullied ortolan until orto finally gave in and put his vote on hohum. This is in some peoples' minds "distancing".
The difference between Scien and hohum is that I don't agree with you saying that hohum actively tried to make himself look bad.

[Vi]

^lol

@everything else: I'm trying to stay on top of this game, and more or less failing entirely.
None of the arguments save the L.Lamora one have really caught my interest since I last mentioned who I want to lynch away.

With that said, I'm still behind on reading Jahudo... which I'll be doing after rereading the game in general.

If Zach and Jack are scum together I will be rather surprised.

[Vi]

@people who hate Jahudo: What do you think of ortolan's hop onto kyle? (292)

[Vi]

Hey 'hudo. How likely is xRx to be lynched IYO?

[Vi]

Percy sounds a bit like scum that's pissed that at people like hohum and xReck not drawing the fire he thinks they should.

Why scum, necessarily?

[Vi]

Percy sounds a bit like scum that's pissed that at people like hohum and xReck not drawing the fire he thinks they should.

Why scum, necessarily?

Not necessarily. "a bit" Town get frustrated too of course.

I don't really do "details" with a feeling like that. The bolded swearing maybe.

I'm into aesthetics. If you can tell me why you feel some way, it's really helpful.

As it is,

bolding things

isn't out of the ordinary for Percy when he gets worked up. And with xRx and hohum, swearing is just a

small

large part of friendly, mutually understood conversation.

But enough about my opinion. What do you think of Percy atm?

[Vi]

Hey 'hudo. How likely is xRx to be lynched IYO?

Its possible some people not on his wagon aren't opposed to it now, or will later change their minds in favor of his lynch. My vote switch was based on finding him scummy, and not finding the Amished part of Amished-Locke scummy.

Vi, are you done with your re-read?

What do you think of the wagons that are going on right now (that people are actually on)?

I'm not done with my reread. I'm overcommitted and have a lack of free time. I'm doing my best with what I have.

I'm really not getting Zach's Percy vote. Percy voted hohum pretty quickly when the Day began and only went off it when he and me were the only people on it.

Jack is awesomely Town. (again)

hohum is a great wagon. If he flips Town, this game will give new meaning to "Friends and Enemies".

[Vi]

What do you think of the wagons that are going on right now (that people are actually on)?

Sure, I'll join whoever to save myself since its almost deadline.

*twitch*

[Vi]

I only know my own alignment.

You DO realize that I totally wanted your opinions on the wagons, right?

Also, you should totally vote hohum. I just saw where hohum showed up just to tell the Town it was going toward failure (473). I'd love to hear why he said that.

[Vi]

The options should definitely be Jahudo and hohum rather than Jahudo and amished.

Just finished rereading up to this point.
This is very correct.

[Vi]

hohum is a great wagon. If he flips Town, this game will give new meaning to "Friends and Enemies".

What does this mean?

If you don't "get it", don't bother.

The options should definitely be Jahudo and hohum rather than Jahudo and amished.

Just finished rereading up to this point.

This is very correct.

OK. Why?

Amished is playing a much more believable Town game than Jahudo. Jahudo blatantly acknowledging self-preservation plays right into that.

Also consider that hohum and Jahudo are the ones who actually have votes on them.

[Vi]

In the event that hohum is scum, Amished and Jahudo would be the natural first places to look tomorrow anyway.

[Vi]

@Edgar J. Hudo: Who are your Town reads?

[Vi]

I would rather lynch Jahudo today, since I'm pretty sure we won't have trouble getting a consensus on hohum tomorrow.

Shouldn't that be why we lynch hohum Today?

[Vi]

I can see the town deciding for some reason not to lynch Jahudo tomorrow if he isn't lynched today. But I think hohum is lurking so badly etc that there'll always be some support.

Which of them (none, one, the other, or both) is scum?

[Vi]

Sotty voting Jahudo essentially hammers him. I would still rather have a hohum lynch tbqh but really we're waiting for someone to flip or hohum to show up.

Hey VP Baltar, I'm bad at telling time. Could you tell us how many hours before deadline?

@Jack: Well okay "none" was probably not a good throw-in.

[Vi]

Pretty sure we're in the same timezone, Vi. Anyhow, you can start your countdown at roughly 37.5 hours...I believe.

It had more to do with the midnight deadline. I can never keep track of which day it counts as.

Or maybe it's noon, judging from the number of hours left. Whichever.

[Vi]

That's an interesting choice of NK.

I know I said something to the effect of wanting hohum very dead Yesterday but Jahudo's death happens to have an interesting side effect.

Two things that are interesting about kyle+xRx. One, kyle99 said he had never seen xRx as scum yet announced a "fairly Town" read, but then doubled back and said that xRx was playing to his meta and he couldn't get a good idea even though xRx was doing scummy things. That's the backtracking ekiM was talking about. But here's something else I find compelling.

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:20 pm

My opinion on xReck is fairly town. I've never played with him as scum

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:59 pm

[notice: under nine hours before the above quote]

xRECKONERx, Mafia Goon, Survived and fulfilled his win condition Day 4

kyle99 was in the above-quoted game, although he was replaced due to activity delinquency (he said he was in the hospital but didn't bother telling anyone - this was before he joined this game, so I'm presuming that incident was over when he joined this game). While kyle didn't post in the endgame, at the time he was replaced he had just voted xRx on suspicion of being scum, and I would be fairly surprised if he didn't keep up with the game even after he had replaced out.

tl;dr WHAT A SCOOP!

Unvote: xRECKONERx
Vote: kyle99

(L-6)

Now THIS is an article worth reprinting!

Vote: xRECKONERx

(L-4)

[Vi]

Here's the above post. Read through my 306 to see the full interview, which is probably more what I meant to post above <.<;
Basically xRx tries to play his way out of the contradiction by saying kyle is confused, ignorant, and apparently amnesiac Town.

[Vi]

Well it seems like I missed out on quite a few things today.~ I'll summarize.

*The secret behind the ten-minute Night is pretty bloody obvious by now. It's one of a number of reasons that I haven't been bothering with a certain person for a while now.

*hohum (and xRx) has no idea who Spark Brushel is. He also has no idea that I've been meaning to post like him since well before this game started precisely

because

of the flavor, although I can't fault him for that much. Also, so little kindness for not going after him immediately like I first planned.~

*Basically the only weapon xRx has at this point is OMGUS and appealing to fear. Unless he actually bothered to say anything about why I voted him? Foregoing any kind of defense for an attack on me (and whoever else is nearby ) doesn't win him any sympathy.

*Did someone already say that they weren't going to bother with Jack, Amished, or DDD from here on? If not, I just did.

*Yep, I didn't push the Jahudo lynch when I should have. Instead of asking him to list his Town reads I probably should have attacked him for not listing any. Oh well.

I actually kind of want this quicklynch to go through. We can certainly afford it at this rate, xRx is neither particularly useful nor even remotely obvTown, and it will force people to stick to their vote.

My second and third choices are ekiM and hohum (slim to no margin of difference) largely because I still haven't been bothered yet by Sotty7 and I still don't think Zachrulez is scum.

Hey DDD, why did I suddenly become a flaming... um, what word was that again? Anyway, etc.

[Vi]

Wait a second.... Does anybody left really understand the "theme" of the game pretty much inside and out?

I don't actually.

What I'm primarily wondering is if the scum don't even have a night-kill. Neighbor-maker would make them less likely to be pegged as scum had they lived. One person acting alone would have the time to decide to not-kill on N1; and my evidence against Percy giving kyle/jah a free pass with Jah turning scum does make sense with like a vig kill or something.

That's a whole lot of people (maybe) sending in Night Actions within ten minutes. Plus I definitely think someone artificially shortened the Night. And the rules do say "set deadline".

[Vi]

I dunno, I just don't see xRx scum, Vi. Other than your kyle being stupid as scum and talking about xRx meta (which I can see as kyle wanting to keep his options open) what else do you got on Reck?

He's loud, useless, and completely expendable. Plus if we have any power roles at all Night is actually to our advantage to a degree.

If it were not for the weird kyle relationship that he hasn't bothered to talk about I would actually jump off for an ekiM wagon right now. As it stands I'd love for him to self-hammer mostly to see if he'll do it.

[Vi]

Combine all that with the fact that you're the second best player in this game (behind only

Reck

)

...did I completely miss the sarcasm, or did you make a mistake?

Anyway, the people you wiped off. Were there any more than I just listed above?

[Vi]

Anyway, the people you wiped off. Were there any more than I just listed above?

I included Sotty on the list as well, if she's scum she's got bigger brass balls than the rest of the town put together.

I see the Jahateo. I'm not sure if it's as good as you're saying but it's still definitely enough for me to not consider her right now.

[Vi]

Unfortunately upon looking back at my response to xRx 891 it seems pointless and nitpicky.

...I still want the xRx lynch but with reasons like what I gave it's pretty unlikely to happen. <.<*
There's really no way not to do this that won't look scummy but at present this wagon is more compelling.

Unvote: xRECKONERx
Vote: ekiM

(L-2)

Also Jack isn't a viable alternative lynch to anyone. At all.

[Vi]

Why is Jack not viable?

Among other reasons, both ortolan and Jahudo/kyle tried to lynch flinter/Jack D1. Twice.

[Vi]

I admit defeat, VP Baltar. That role name is more bizarre than anything I've come up with

Uh huh, sure. I can't even pronounce half of your role names! ~ The mod

---

So that didn't end well. I was going to post an apology and unvote, but I showed up literally right after hohum's hammer. <_<

Now that I'm not high on "life" let's be a little more methodical about this.

I would be heavily surprised if there is more than one scum left in this game based on the power roles we know.

I would like for anyone who has been influenced by Jack's ability to come forward. I don't think there's much to gain by not doing so at this point.

Based on that and Days 1 and 2 we should have enough information to whittle down the lynching pool. Right now we still have three lynches and seven players. If we could accurately establish the innocence of four players, the game is all but over. Even if we're wrong now, based on who gets killed we can change our minds as long as it's a one-to-one swap.

I remember reading Yesterday that my picks for Town were DDD, Amished, Zachrulez, Sotty7 (something like in descending order), leaving hohum and xRx. I would like to reread to make sure of that, but that's not coming until after the weekend.

Cut by hohum: No comment.

[Vi]

I remember reading Yesterday that my picks for Town were DDD, Amished, Zachrulez, Sotty7 (something like in descending order), leaving hohum and xRx. I would like to reread to make sure of that, but that's not coming until after the weekend.

Why is Zach "more" town that Sotty considering they had near identical positions on the ortolan wagon, but Zach was pushing hohum over Jahudo on D2 while Sotty was the one who swung the vote for Jahudo? Right now I've got a tiered structure of...

Mostly because I've been burned by Sotty bussing before. I don't have time to look again at something in that game or her play in this game, but I also have no particular reason to suspect her.

[Vi]

Scum Sotty could have easily justified hammering Hohum over Jahudo on day 2. As a result, Sottyscum makes no sense to me at this point.

I saw that she was the swing vote but didn't remember the circumstances behind it.

I just looked again and I'm pretty sure I agree with you.

[Vi]

Scum Sotty could have easily justified hammering Hohum over Jahudo on day 2. As a result, Sottyscum makes no sense to me at this point.

The thing about this is she didn't hammer jahudo. I did.

That renders your argument moot.

I suppose the option was open for you to hammer the other wagon instead?

[Vi]

Scum Sotty could have easily justified hammering Hohum over Jahudo on day 2. As a result, Sottyscum makes no sense to me at this point.

The thing about this is she didn't hammer jahudo. I did.

That renders your argument moot.

Given the likelihood of you voting yourself over Jahudo, her vote on him was effectively the hammer.

That's a stupid argument.

...of all the times to not have a witty comeback...

New question

so you can dig your own grave deeper

. For what purpose are you engaging in this argument?

[Vi]

Scum Sotty could have easily justified hammering Hohum over Jahudo on day 2. As a result, Sottyscum makes no sense to me at this point.

The thing about this is she didn't hammer jahudo. I did.

That renders your argument moot.

Given the likelihood of you voting yourself over Jahudo, her vote on him was effectively the hammer.

That's a stupid argument.

...of all the times to not have a witty comeback...

Wait, I do have a witty comeback.

It's not like we're just deciding now that Sotty effectively hammered Jahudo, because two posts after Sotty voted I said exactly that.

Because I'm right.

Also, you're scum.

So if

I'm

scum - and presumably the only scum left in the game - why are you so busy tearing down

Sotty7

?

[Vi]

Vi, is this who you expected to claim credit for the ten minute night and if so can you explain what you picked up on to make you think that?

No. I thought it was clearly Jack. Unfortunately there's no way to ASK him now. :\

I'd really like to oblige hohum's desire to get lynched just out of sheer personal spite, but I'm going on V/LA and I would also like to see xRx post Today.

In the meantime, if hohum and Zach could please STFU/post less (respectively) I think everyone would be better for it.

[Vi]

Posting before prod.

I've skimmed what I missed (in all its lack of glory) and truthfully nothing's standing out as particularly solid except that my I-guess-Zach-is-Town read has become more solid. I'll try again in the morning.

@Amished: I thought it was Jack because I got to the thread a few minutes after the thread re-opened, and Jack had already posted with a .
Aside from how it resembled the JEEPtell "congratulating the Doctor", ten minutes is a fairly small window and the number of people who would have been around at the time is limited.

[Vi]

I've tried three drafts of this post and I still can't get a scummary that I like. This is because I can't tell who's scummy any more; everyone's jumping up and down like PICK ME PICK ME ever since Jahudo died.

Here's the current theory.

DDD mentioned that scum would be unlikely to bus right out the gate D2. I'll buy that; that might eliminate Zachrulez. What's frustrating is that I can't tell if I'm being paranoid with Zach fakeclaiming right now or not. I'm going to blindly step forward and say that Zach is probably Town.

For DDD to be scum he has to have bussed both of his partners. While I actually kind of hate some amount of what he has said D3 theory-wise (why no massclaim? why are you voting xRx when you said earlier you were resistant to lynching someone who was on two scumwagons?) it is what it is.

Sotty7 is etc.

I don't think xRx is scum. I could use another housecat right about now but he was on the Jahudo wagon at a time when if he were scum it would have been rather disadvantageous. If I'm wrong on this I'm going to feel terrible about myself because of the contradiction I pointed out at the beginning of D3.

Amished's play post-D2 has been terrible, and his terrible intent to hammer hohum just adds spice to it. Really the only reasons he's getting away with it right now involve DDD's clout and hohum playing even worse.

I could fill this entire post with reasons why hohum sucks like a vacuum - if he's Town. If he's scum, I have to admit what he's been doing has been working quite well for him in terms of lynch resistance. As a general rule, theories that assume that someone is playing an excellent game are not believable.

Vote: Amished

(L-3)

If it came down to a hohum lynch, I wouldn't cry. But I much prefer this lynch.

[Vi]

Amished's play post-D2 has been terrible,

and his terrible intent to hammer hohum just adds spice to it. Really the only reasons he's getting away with it right now involve DDD's clout and hohum playing even worse.

um so yeah there's more than just the intent to hammer hohum

plus also i may be biased but i think scum would have tried joining one of the three very easy wagons available

also if you read into what i said i decided hohum was more likely the worst town player i've ever seen than scum

[Vi]

Amished #37 - First post of D3. Apparently you "skimmed up" but had nothing to say about anything that had gone on that Day. That's not active lurking at all.

#39 through #42 and #44 and #47 - Blatant setup speculation with reckless disregard for what the mod said in the rules.

#43 and #45 - "I don't think xRx is scum anyways" juxtaposed with "claim time". That's less grievous than the fact that you're now VOTING for xRx. We'll come back to this.

#46 - Awesome ekiM vote with no reasoning.

---End of D3, beginning of D4---

#48 - Threat to hammer hohum as a "mercy kill". (Wait, where were you up to this point in the Day, aside from telling hohum and Zach to STFU and asking me more setup-y questions?) You don't hammer people you expect to flip Town, not in this scenario where deadline is nowhere nearby and one would expect a Townie to have reads elsewhere (you don't seem to). (No, I would not hammer hohum unless he gave me immediate reason to do so.)

#50 - Suddenly xRx is scum for not voting you immediately after expressing suspicion of you? Isn't that, like, sort of the complete opposite of what you're doing to me now? Even so, that's a weak, weak reason for doing such a 180 on someone you only recently said was more likely Town.

I still don't understand why or how you and DDD claim to be on the same wavelength at this point. Your post #55 saying that you don't understand why DDD is trying to connect to you makes little sense.

Last, this is twice now that you've reactively flown against someone who accused you (xRx, now me). Only scum and horrible Townies need to react at this point; you're surrounded by Townies who (mostly) aren't morons and it's pretty difficult to plausibly say there's a scumspiracy against you. You're no horrible Townie. QED.

[Vi]

I kind of

do

have to thank you for asking me to do that read though. I'm quite a bit more confident now that I've laid it out.~

[Vi]

BY THE WAY: how is my "awesome mike vote for no reasoning" any different than your awesome mike vote for no reasoning" ?

At the very least I mentioned him that Day, for one.

37: If there's nothing to say (once) I'd rather say that everything going on at the time is boring and not worth commenting on then a single post is active lurking? Ooooookay..

Whatever happened to steering discussion toward someone you DO think is scummy?

Setup Speculation: Lack of a NK N1, with somebody I viewed as scummy N2 as the only NK looks a lot more like a vig to me than a scumteam. Obviously. I was having trouble getting really solid reads on a couple players, and Zach's claim made me believe him more so I don't see the problem with a massclaim, especially after lynching two scum.

* at "obviously"*
Zach's claim was D4 though. Meanwhile, what happened to scumhunting?

Yesterday I didn't see xRx as scum, I am allowed to change my mind. Today what he said made more sense as scum than it did as town (Unvoting hohum due to me willing to hammer somebody I felt was town implies that he thinks that I'm scum going for a mislynch. Him not voting for me when it's implied that he thinks I'm scum when I didn't have a vote on me at the time (I believe) looks a lot more like scum behavior than town behavior.

And do you still believe that xRx is more likely scum than <random other person>?
And was that enough to take him from your "probably Town" column to "most likely scum"?

More interestingly, did you suspect anyone else at all before xRx said something that allowed you to vote him?

As for DDD: I agreed basically 100% with his post 1000. That's where I got the same read thing from. When I have the same outlook as somebody I both like them (cause they're reading the game the same way indicating a similar mindset) and wonder if they're playing me (as it's happened before). 55 is my thought process if it'd make more sense to play only me; or to try to use me as a mislynch. With a couple people listing me as their secondary suspect during the early part of the day today; it would make more scum-sense to try to use me as one of the 3 needed mislynches for the scum to come back from 2 partners down.

Nobody says the hyposcum has to lynch you

now

.

Do you think that you are actively having a mislynch set up against you right now?

Try coming up with something with a little more context to your argument next time.

I expect more out of you.

What is this saying?

[Vi]

Every time someone goes after Vi we get a robotic "you're a BAD townie"

and get swatted on the nose with a newspaper

ever failing to address the root cause of the complaint.

(S)he has done it to me

Now (S)he is doing it to Amished.

What has been so terrible then, and why is it scummy? Please, elaborate your shoddy reasons for voting me.

<stuff>

Last,

this is twice now that you've reactively flown against someone who accused you (xRx, now me).

Only scum and horrible Townies need to react at this point; you're surrounded by Townies who (mostly) aren't morons and it's pretty difficult to plausibly say there's a scumspiracy against you.

You're no horrible Townie.

QED.

Pretty much the only other people who have bothered to go after me are DDD and you (please forgive me for lumping the two of you in the same category). DDD is more likely than not Town, and his conclusion is bad (I acknowledge that I deleted one of my other gripes with him in 1033, namely that I think he's stretching to put together that "scum narrative" of me considering he just saw me as scum where I didn't act anything like what he's saying I would D1). At present I'm taking a gamble on you-Town, and everything you do is bad.

That reminds me, one of the other things that got deleted in draft 2 of 1033 was that Jack said he thought he saw an xRx-Jahudo scumteam. I'll look into that.

[Vi]

Question for xRx. Why did you go so far out of your way to tell everyone that I'm really good scum because of an ongoing game (never mind the only game you've ever played with me)? I would hope that you had a really, really good reason for bringing that up twice. In addition, before bringing up the ongoing game you said that you've seen me play as both alignments (#10), but not including this game we've only been in one game together. Which other game are you looking at?

I'm bothered by how xRx said "lynch me; I don't care" to accusations

before

Jack brought up the possibility of xRx/kyle being together, at which point he actually started protesting. Further, for some reason after I pointed out kyle's contradiction in 285, xRx actually

added on to it

- yet immediately afterward insisted that kyle was playing to his Town meta.

Jahudo's attempt at a case on Locke Lamora feels like something I would post to attempt to bus a scumpartner - small, uncertain, but nevertheless trust me he's in the top three! It's the shortest thing he posted about anyone in his reads.

I have a hard time buying that I'm scum after seeing Jahudo prioritize attacking me over reading ortolan. ...oh wait.
Similarly I don't think his discourse with DDD was scum-on-scum.

xRx flops on Jahudo/kyle and makes what seems to me to be an overly contrived summary of why he would vote ortolan that Day--

(Okay, this looks awful... ort votes me in iso1, then votes me again in iso2... it's like he's not even really paying attention to what's going on and is just latching onto the most viable scum candidate at the time. You know who plays like that? Scum. He also refuses to put a vote down on hohum until hohum forces it out of him. Then suddenly, it's between hohum and Jack for him, and he never really explains why he suddenly dropped my wagon so quickly. Then immediately after saying "I only noticed one scummy thing about kyle", he fucking votes for kyle. But just a few iso posts before... he was stuck between hohum and Jack. Then, he replaces out just like that. Blegh. Dislike dislike dislike.)

^^this is the first time he did anything to pay attention to ortolan, and it's obvious. His other summaries don't look like so rhetorical. Here's another example for comparison.

(Let's see - random vote; irrelevant questioning of Vi on mechanical issues; frivolous comments on me, flinter, and Zach; joins my wagon at an opportune time; wah wah wah wah replacements; continues in a holding pattern sticking on my wagon; my wagon isn't going anywhere so he hops to ortolan with very little prior reasoning or logic behind it; heralds ortolan wagon, once again, with no reasoning; dear God this is awful)

Notice that there's more emphasis on what DDD actually

did

, without the fluff.

Jahudo's first post of D2 concerns me. I don't think scum would be in such a hurry to write off so many people as Town {hohum, xRx, Jack, Vi} unless he knew there was no chance of most of them getting lynched.

Jahudo jumping onto the Amished wagon when it was popular makes me wonder, as does Jahudo's "I'm voting Amished for Locke Lamora, not Amished".

Amished 712 reminds me that Amished was willing to jump from Percy to Jahudo when they had equally large wagons (ignoring Amished's vote). That's actually pro-Town; I would expect scum to avoid making that kind of move when the way I worded the question allowed him to safely say "no".

I have no idea why xRx voted for Jahudo. Literally the last thing he said about Jahudo was D1 saying that Jahudo made excellent scumhunting.

I have no idea what to make of the xRx vs. Jahudo spat at the end of D2.

@you:

I'm curious as to what the general consensus is about Jahudo's convenient change of mind about hohum.

Jahudo's Town reads shortly before he was lynched included four dead people/claimed power roles, me, and DDD. I think they're all likely Town thanks to crackpot psychology, etc..

xRx's wagon D3 was comprised of myself, Jack, Zach, and ekiM. From my perspective, it has been established that this wagon was Town-driven; thus making it more likely that xRx is the last scum. hohum could have joined that wagon but chose to vote me instead; slight Townish points.

The Percy kill continues to bother me. The three dead Townies at this point {Percy, ekiM, Jack} were all supporters of lynching hohum and xRx. There IS an alternative explanation, namely that the Percy and Jack kills were aiming for power roles, but that seems a little convenient.

----

tl;dr It's certainly not implausible that xRx is the last scum. His most recent posts feel Townie tbqh, but his relationships with the two flipped scum are hard to buy and his D1 posts are just weird.

Locke Lamora would make a good partner to Jahudo, but Amished wouldn't.

I keep coming to similar conclusions with each pair I read in multi-isolation, which means I'm either seeing all that's there or I'm tunneling. But I don't have a reason to believe I'm tunneling tbh...

[Vi]

I'm not entirely sure of this, but I may as well.

Unvote: Amished
Vote: xRECKONERx

(L-2)

Cue OMGUS vote in three, two, one...

[Vi]

As I type this up, Vi's two most recent posts come up leaving me pretty stumped. I take it you ISO'ed Amished in 1037 and then went back to read parts of the game in context in 1044? The quick flip leaves a sour taste in my mouth, as if you wanted to get away from Amished not fully convinced of the case you built. Are you dropping Amished completely now?

Not completely. But I'm not as convinced as I was before.

I'm actually using multi-isolation, showing xRx and Jahudo's posts. The Amished-votes-Jahudo point was something I remembered along the way.
I asked that question specifically to weed out the possibility of Jahudo+Amished, and forgot about it later.

While I'm here I'm looking at hohum + Jahudo. bbs

[Vi]

Question for hohum.

We're headed in a general direction of fucking ourselves.

You never did clarify what you meant by this.
At this time D1, the wagons were on Jack, yourself, and ortolan (in order of size). Jack was one of your suspects from before you V/LAd. Yourself, etc. Previously during the Day you bullied ortolan's vote onto you but you never voted him or expressed any opinion that he was remotely Townish. So, I'm having a hard time connecting the dots on my own.

There's really not much to see in hohum vs. Jahudo. hohum never addressed Jahudo before hammering him. Jahudo ignored everything hohum did until it became convenient not to, rejecting the theory that hohum bullied ortoetc.

Has hohum defended all the points from post 462? I don't think so, but he probably should. Like why he ignored most of the town. Still, I don't think its scummy the he ignored the flinter replacing, which I already mentioned. And the timing of the reck vote is also not a tell for me.

He's not scummy but should defend himself?
It should have been fairly obvious that hohum

hadn't

defended against ekiM's accusations from a page ago considering hohum had only posted once with the above quote. I guess this qualifies as coaching, especially considering he didn't look back on his hohum-Town read afterward.

--

tl;dr This is a much more hands-off interaction than what we saw with xRx and Jahudo, more fitting the pattern of not mentioning each other unless they had to. I have to repeat my question from the xRx scummary in regards to what people think of Jahudo's change of heart on hohum.

So if Zachrulez is a claimed power role, Sotty7 isn't likely to be scum, DDD isn't likely to be scum, and Amished could be scum if he recklessly bussed Jahudo; that leaves hohum and xRx.
I feel like I'm almost back at square one. :\

---

@Zach: I was actually referring to him voting me over RECK. It's a weak tell nonetheless.

Also, apologies for Zazieposting.

[Vi]

Zach - Could you go into more detail about DDD's wagon placement being "too perfect"?

My gut is twitching a bit at the idea of voting Amished today after the arguments that DDD made for his innocence.

I'm not sure I follow...

[Vi]

Vi, did you really just go through all that mental gymnastics just to come up with the Hohum/Reck/X possibility after clearing myself, Sotty, and Zach that I've been touting for a while now. Seems like a lot of work just to get back to my post 1000 with your obvious change of switching Amished and you. I don't think it's suspicious just kind of amusing that you wrote so much just to go back two pages.

I haven't been "in this game" since mid-late D1. Throw in a weekend of V/LA and there you are.

@Zach: Going out to lunch but offhand I can't agree with your DDD suspicion. Scum

do

seem to have priorities other than killing DDD, but that doesn't necessarily mean that DDD is scum. For instance, I've noted that the kills seem to aid hohum and xRx most, defensively.

[Vi]

Vi, did you really just go through all that mental gymnastics just to come up with the Hohum/Reck/X possibility after clearing myself, Sotty, and Zach that I've been touting for a while now. Seems like a lot of work just to get back to my post 1000 with your obvious change of switching Amished and you. I don't think it's suspicious just kind of amusing that you wrote so much just to go back two pages.

I haven't been "in this game" since mid-late D1. Throw in a weekend of V/LA and there you are.

@Zach: Going out to lunch but offhand I can't agree with your DDD suspicion. Scum

do

seem to have priorities other than killing DDD, but that doesn't necessarily mean that DDD is scum. For instance, I've noted that the kills seem to aid hohum and xRx most, defensively.

Neither I nor xRx are scum and the kills were designed to setup mislynches.

Period.

So you're suggesting that I've been waiting for two Days to set that line of logic up?

[Vi]

*sets out xRECKONERx bait*

[Vi]

._.
Mafia is going to teach me to lighten up one of these days.

I'll break the tie.

Unvote: xRECKONERx
Vote: hohum

(L-1)

inb4etc.

[Vi]

Still don't like Vi, and her? being on both of the quick mislynches easily like that rubs me severely the wrong way.

Please elaborate.

2 scum dead, still think we're looking for the last one.

I didn't know this was in question.

I don't have time atm to do much reading. I freely confess I have no solid idea where to go at this point. I keep getting the gut impulse that xRx is not scum, and I've already forgotten why. Amished's D3+ activity still feels like scum (this recent post doesn't help) and that's probably where I'm going to vote after I read things over again.

[Vi]

their mislynches look absolutely terrible; since both happened much faster than I would've expected (which means that scum were on BOTH from my eyes.)

ekiM ~ LYNCH (Sotty7, Amished, Vi, xRECKONERx, hohum)
hohum ~ LYNCH (Sotty7, Zachrulez, Vi, xRECKONERx)

hohum and xRx qualify as scum, yes...

You already said that you think there's only one scum left (and I

would

like for you to answer why you said that). Assuming I'm scum, then, how would I know that the lynch would go down

that

quickly? I didn't expect hohum to quickhammer ekiM. I can't say the same for xRx hammering hohum, but see earlier nebulous Town read on him and I thought hohum was the most likely partner to Jahudo and ortolan anyway.

Now that Jack and hohum's alignments are known it's pretty clear that Sotty or DDD would have had to have laid a megabus on both of their scumpartners. I've seen both of them make some shrewd plays on their scumpartners before, but (in DDD's case at least) nothing like this. And things like xRx whining about the perfect victory and not trying to do anything shrewd (barring the "BY THE WAY GAIZ Vi IS GOOD SCUM", for which I still want to know the motivation, and the whole weird kyle relationship) give me impulsive Town reads. Meanwhile, at risk of sounding repetitive, there's nothing in particular that makes me see your viewpoint from D3 on as Town-motivated. A sample that I missed in my previous post on this subject:

xRx: You also need 3 mislynches to win (assuming 3-9 split) from here out (6 other players, 3 mislynches and 2 nk's leaves you in a 1:1 night endgame). Using up a single easy one now is not going to win you the game. Allowing an "easy" mislynch to go through now while not creating another one pretty much backs you into a corner where it's damn near impossible for you to win.

Why are you coaching (alleged) scum here? I don't see Town saying this sort of thing.

And now that I'm looking at it again, why haven't you responded to my 1040?

[Vi]

I'm gonna go back and see who Zach suspected

Amished and DDD. You're welcome.

---

{hohum and xRx qualify as scum? what the hell are you saying here?}

That's how they are/were playing - no direction, self-preservation only, Final Destination.

Oh come on, hohum lynched anybody that he could get his hands on; you really "couldn't expect that"? Especially with hohum being wagoned hardcore that day and very easily sensing his own end? And hohum hammering Jahudo the day before that? Bullshit and various other comments.

There's a difference between hammering in self-preservation at L-1 and ending the Day early for lulz, especially since we had already gone through one L-1 wagon that Day.

I'm saying that {1 scum left} cause we have two lynches to hit scum.

Circular reasoning. I don't think this is worth pursuing atm though.

For my 997 comment: Jahudo and Ortolan were both dead. Assuming me-scum, who the fuck am I coaching?

xRx.
Why are you as Town telling xRx-hyposcum how to play strategy?

For the steering discussion: Other than the hohum lynch, the game was pretty much going where I thought it should. Jahudo I was happy with, ekiM was ambivalent enough that I thought he had a good shot at last scum and hohum I thought he was worthless but I wanted to go for a stronger scum read (which I didn't have any time to really counter a lot of what was said since I didn't have time to post during that period)

{Scumhunting} I'm always looking. Most of what I see can't/shouldn't be posted (can't for hard to verbalize, shouldn't for a myriad of reasons). If the game is going the way I generally agree with (especially since you're talking more about before the hohum lynch) I don't really see a need to vocalize.

I doubt it, because I'm pretty sure you don't play like DDD. A more compelling motivation would be that your arse isn't on the line any more. That's what stopped after Day 2; that's what started this attack on me.

If I had a dayvig power, I'd kill you and then lynch xRx and I could basically guarantee that there's scum in one of you two.

Guarantee

, you say?
(See also previous comment - playing passively and

guaranteeing

scum seem like opposite behaviors.)

{feeling a mislynch against me} Zach, xRx, Sotty, and you (at times) had various comments saying that I was a relatively top suspect. At that point, it's fairly easy to manipulate NK's so that I'd be left for one of the last 3-4 days assuming mislynching to Lylo. Especially with enough people saying they have strong town reads elsewhere.

Do you believe this is still the case? Do you believe you should be NKd?

Nothing that you said against me in your case is a legitimate scumtell.

The whole active lurking and not scumhunting and questionable/reactive change in opinion to xRx didn't qualify?

Finally, I saw that you said that I flipped out at two people that accused me (being xRx and you {Vi}). xRx never

accused

me, and I was attacking him for the lack of accusation rather than what you did accuse me of. Your attack of me was so bad that it couldn't possibly come from town which I did attack you for.

Semantics.

And now for a little WIFOM to spice up the game.

On D4 I said that Jack was the most likely person to be the Night-ending power role, by far. Now consider that by N2 I-hyposcum would be the only person left on the scumteam. Why on earth would I attack Percy? (especially since he was on fire for the hohum lynch)

Furthermore, Zachrulez had an unmoving Town read on me Yesterday. The fact that he had an uncounterclaimed (but practically unprovable) power role notwithstanding, if I as scum am going to make it to LyLo (again) I would really want him around right now (especially since DDD and Sotty7 were for their parts uncontested as well, except by Zach in DDD's case).

[Vi]

For various and sundry reasons I think I want a massclaim before we get too far gone into D5.

[post delayed; ask later]

[Vi]

Vi, I'll get to you when I have more energy but it's pretty obvious that you're wrong about me (I believe, cause you still haven't voted today even though admitting that you think there's only one scum left)

I haven't voted because
*at the beginning of the Day I wasn't sure what to believe
*I don't want to rush the Day; see Day 3 for what good that did for us
*in keeping with the above, I would like to see everyone post before I make a decision
This was the same thing I did Yesterday ftr.

As for it being obvious, evidently not. Or are you saying I'm self-evidently scum?

[Vi]

I'm very evidently town.

*is unconvinced*

Ooh, and that [placeholder] just got more interesting.

[Vi]

Waiting for Sotty.

(that's not the name of a band)

[Vi]

I would have thought that any power role with helpful info would have come out with it already so we could process everything.

This tbh.

I'm growing increasingly wary that it's 9/2/1 and I think a massclaim would give information that would help me decide which is more likely.

Re: 9/2/1 - The possibility is worth considering - it's a novel way of balancing the kill speed given Zach's ability - though it would mean that the Mafia was very weak.
I'm curious as to what you might see in a massclaim that would help you decide either way.

Oh, and since I'm already bored, here's what I was thinking of during the [placeholder] posts.
*DDD - Massclaim has already been suggested by two people; xRx and Amished (both D3). What's special about doing it now instead of later?

Amished seems to be partly answering the question I had for him (which you might be able to guess given what I just said to DDD) so I'll leave that be.

xRx not wanting a massclaim makes me want one.~
To answer (almost) everyone's anticipated immediate response, I don't mind going first.

[Vi]

Vi, did I say I didn't want a massclaim?

I've already claimed. What the hell would I care, as scum, if I've already claimed? As town, I think it's purely pro-town to massclaim.

Purely theoretical answer aside, I think this clearly shows that I can't read. >.>

---

If xRx is playing like scum (self preservation) why are you not voting for him? Is he your top suspect? Why or why not?

Because I don't solidly believe he's scum and have an impulsive Town read on him. He's not my top suspect because he's not you.

Basically, the same reason you didn't want to vote hohum Yesterday.

{hohum hammering} The L-1 wagon "that day" that you were talking about hohum was already on (and it was hohum's wagon). If you really thought he cared about who he voted for you were sadly mistaken, and I don't believe you are legitimately that blind as town.

Are we talking about the same Day 3?

{coaching} If you'd look back at my coaching post (post 997) and then scroll up to the top of page 40 where I actually VOTED for xRx, you'll see that my "coaching" is my extended reasoning for voting for xRx. Besides, does it make ANY SENSE AT ALL for me-scum to tell a townie what not to do for me to not suspect them? I'd need all the mislynches I could get, and doing that would not help my cause. Me-town explaining myself makes a lot more sense....

Let me give you the benefit of the doubt here, because your alibi isn't making sense to me at all.
Explain to me what you were doing on that page from the beginning - slowly, so the mentally fatigued idiot ice fairy can understand what you're saying.

{opposite behaviors} How is this a scumtell? I can read a game and say who I think is scum just as well as posting aggressively and saying the same damn thing. Again, how is this a scumtell?

Your motivation for posting, which I mentioned in that post (specifically, more self-preservation). Again, your motivation for posting.

{WIFOM} In my first scum game (newbie in the 600's...) Mastin-scumpartner NK'd every supporter he had to "anti-frame" himself in an attempt to control the entire town. Ended up not working but you killing Zach (who did say that he thought I had some redeeming qualities so his suspecting of me isn't as definite as you seemed to make it out to be)

I didn't know I was making such a big deal of him suspecting you. 'Glad I'm not the only one who can't read.
That aside, I don't think that example matches the 9-3 scenario or the 9-2-1 setup because Mastin wasn't the only scum alive ITG. (note: research to be done to test veracity of this statement but I'm not feeling up to it right now)

tbqh I'd really like for you to just claim and get it over with. You're not convincing me you're not scum (granted I know that hasn't been your goal) but if your claim is as good as you're hinting it'll cut down on the needless back-and-forth.

On a scale of however you choose to measure it, how convinced are you that I'm scum?

[Vi]

So exams are over and I can think semicoherently now. Plus the site's actually up.

Based on what Amisheducation has already softclaimed, I'm willing to pre-emptively consider him Town.
But I'm also not giving up on my xRx read (his lacking play would be more of an issue if it hadn't been going on all game).

I think it would be a good idea to make sure DDD and Sotty7 don't leave this Day without an investigation, especially since the possibility has been brought up that the last scum may not be connected to the first two.

Assuming RECKtown, we can likely assume that Percy, Jack, and Zach were at least partly kills based on rolehunting. This notion in particular coincides with this recent interest in a massclaim, even though it was already brought up D3 and (as Sotty said) if anyone had anything to report, they would have said something by now. In addition, Jack and Zach were both seen as more or less obvTown, indicating that if the scum isn't RECK, the scum isn't in much danger right now. More, Zach in particular wanted DDD lynched Yesterday (so did xRx but who's NKing him?) and was summarily NKd. Last, while DDD was all about the huge wagons D1 (until the ortolan wagon), since the aborted N1 and especially after the solo kill N2 he's been very cautious with his vote (the Town has been doing a good job of lynching itself away anyway). All of these point to DDD.

I think it would be really awesome if DDD decided to show his hand and start talking about
*what in a massclaim would sway him either way
*what it would mean for his conclusions if the game was 9/3 or 9/2/1
because he hasn't said anything concretely relevant Today.

All of this talk about Zach's scary day-ending power is kind of ridiculous. Not only is that sort of thing anti-Town but he kind of said inthread

he was never going to use it

.

Sotty, who is your second pick for scum?

[Vi]

Hmm, I thought I already wrote up a post noting that I wasn't going to say what I'm looking for in a massclaim until it's already happened because I don't want to give scum any ideas about how they should claim, but it looks like that was just in my mind.

V. Townie. Sotty claims next.

I think you're bluffing.

[Vi]

I think you're bluffing.

Who is bluffing? And about what?

I don't think you're being sincere about what you're looking for in a massclaim or your stance on who could be scum.
I mean you're approaching RECK-levels of stance definition.

Cut by Amished, who gets it.

[Vi]

I tried to write a post in response that wasn't completely mocking but it wasn't happening. The mere implication that my course of action today would be beneficial for scum-me is downright laughable and of course that even ignores my play of the first four days.

Humor me. Why?

[Vi]

@Amished: That's nowhere near what I expected
I think that answers the question of whether there's an SK though.

Also, this burden of proficiency stuff was cute at first, but it's getting old. See those boxes below my name? This post is the first time I've mentioned them. Ever. I haven't won a game as Town this year, and the two scum I've lynched came from a counterclaim and Sotty bussing HowardRoark (after which I came under fire for deciding he was Town on the previous Day). I've already mentioned that I've only been going at half power during the semester due to RL stuff and the thread going too quickly; I'm trying to pick it up now.

(as well as me saying "yippee kay yay motherfuckers" in my first post showing that I was gun-ho or whatever. Yes, bad breadcrumb but I was never good at them anyways)

It's a decent breadcrumb; the mental image of you saying yippee kai yai has been ingrained since you replaced in. I've started saying it

So Sotty. Do you believe Amished's claim? Do you believe the game is "wrapped up"?
Why should I not believe you're playing from the sidelines again?
Can you provide a game or two where you

haven't

hard-bussed your partners?

---

*deletes response to 1118*

I can't argue with DDD's breadcrumb; although the role is even farther out there than Mr. Tambourine Man flavor-wise I believe VP Baltar would give safeclaims anyway.

Man if I can believe that claim it's awesome because I think it would wrap the game up for the town.

Not quite. I would like to go through Sotty first. (Yes I know vote counts etc. but I have plenty of reason to believe Sotty would superbus and calling her for holding back was an accurate tell in that game.)

----

Also.

*You lynch me
*DDD targets Sotty
*Amished sits around

Assuming all claims are accurate LyLo will either be DDD/Sotty/Amished or DDD/Amished/xRx. Granted proven role =/= proven alignment and DDD would still be an issue IMO (I'm pretty much sold on Amished and still don't think it's xRx) but that would be something you could hash out on your own.

How does that sound?

[Vi]

I don't see how you could say that you thought DDD was scum after being on both scum day long-lynches (pretty sure) and neither of the town quicklynches. It just seems like a huge oversight when you've brought up your wagon analysis earlier this game so it is something that you look at. To ignore something like that... just outrageous in my eyes.

Huge oversights are the only kind I make.

The fact that DDD was on both scum lynches was acknowledged a while ago; it's a large point in his favor (albeit one he didn't bother to bring up). However, not being on either of the Town quicklynches isn't a huge point because, well, quicklynch. Further, I've been burned enough by assuming someone is Town and then letting them coast - this is precisely why I came back to you D4 and then Today after what went down D2.

I was all gun ho for the ekiM case I made a little while back without realizing that it would lead to such an epic quick lynch. I have slowed my play down a little since then but I have been anything but on the sidelines.

This doesn't answer the question. Why not join in the theorizing about what's going on?

I have a question.

@mod: Can you elaborate on Jack's role?

It's pretty cool huh. Freak Power was the political party that Hunter S. Thompson ran under when he nearly became sherriff in Colorado. It is detailed in his Rolling Stone article 'The Battle of Aspen'. Other than that, there isn't much I can say. ~ The mod.

And last...

Hey xRx. You're playing this game too, allegedly. Come in and tell us what's on your mind.

[Vi]

No, you said:

"Last scum is a PR in my opinion"

That is DDD or me, since everybody else claimed Vanilla. You also said:

Nyao...
I agree that the last scum is a power role, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's one of the claimed ones.

Lemme try. Hay xRx--

*Who are you interested in lynching Today?
*Who

aren't

you interested in lynching Today?
*Why for all of the above, etc.
*Do you have anything else to ask?

[Vi]

I don't see how you could say that you thought DDD was scum after being on both scum day long-lynches (pretty sure) and neither of the town quicklynches. It just seems like a huge oversight when you've brought up your wagon analysis earlier this game so it is something that you look at. To ignore something like that... just outrageous in my eyes.

Huge oversights are the only kind I make.

The fact that DDD was on both scum lynches was acknowledged a while ago; it's a large point in his favor (albeit one he didn't bother to bring up).

I mean you're approaching RECK-levels of stance definition.

I am cut to the quick.

I tried to write a post in response that wasn't completely mocking but it wasn't happening. The mere implication that my course of action today would be beneficial for scum-me is downright laughable

and of course that even ignores my play of the first four days.

... v.v
I'm done joining games for a while. I can't watch myself play like this.

I also learned in a recent game that while being a braggart about my awesomeness at finding scum (or at least being on their lynches) is natural to me it tends to turn the rest of the town against me.

This is true. You have to phrase it in such a way that people know exactly why you're making your Townclaims.
Bad: "Um yeah I was on both scum lynches. Argue against that."
Good: "Neither of those scum lynches would have succeeded without me. Really."

The reason I asked xRx the questions earlier was because 1125 didn't actually

say

anything. But this reminds me of what happened to Jahudo.

I'm at a loss. I feel like if I get this wrong, I'm going to get quicklynched Tomorrow. I think Sotty remembers how I feel about getting lynched on the final Day.

Let's try again.
I'm actually very confident in Amished's claim.
If DDD is telling the truth about his claim (i.e. he's Town, as opposed to him deliberately making the Percy kill), the setup is almost certainly 9/3. If that's the case then all the bussing tells apply, and Sotty is most likely Town. This leaves xRx.
Otherwise obviously DDD is scum. Sotty is still Town because DDD is scum.
In terms of probability, DDD is more likely telling the truth about his claim.
Therefore xRx is the correct lynch Today.

Vote: xRECKONERx

(L-1)

[Vi]

ortolan, I'll say this once.
I don't mind you. I treat you like I treat everyone else. (Or if you want to compare hohum, much better.) If you think I have a vendetta against you, I'm not interested in popping your delusion bubble, because judging from what everyone was saying after you left the game, the one who came out looking like a douche was you. If you don't want to play games with me, I'm fine with obliging you for your own sake.

Those quicklynches were unbelievably unreasonable, and I continue to be perplexed at why hohum/Amished made them (or at least Amished anyway).

With that said pretty much the last time I wasn't horrible in this game was when I started the ortolan wagon. I have no idea how or why I talked myself onto the xRx wagon. I apologize.

Sotty needs boxes under her name. I would like to give the "I can write a scum narrative on you and I know you're the most dangerous player in the game" spiel to someone for whom that statement actually applies. (In make that statement, DDD clearly showed he has no idea what my scum meta is in spite of seeing it about a month ago.)

[Vi]

I felt like I got stabbed through the heart when I found out Sotty was the last scum. (As opposed to getting stabbed through the heart in a game sense I guess...)

When I saw who the final three were I immediately thought "why do I keep asking people 'why should I think you're _____' instead of just voting them for it?".

[Vi]

I can't express how happy I am this game is over.

I don't think I have ever been so stressed playing mafia before.

:schadenfreude:

Don't worry about promises not to bus your partners. I always say that I don't want to bus at the

start

of games, and that's usually not what happens.

After this game I am never playing on MS with Zach again. Ever. I'm pretty sure his presence increased my stress levels 100% I got no real break from the game in my mind.

(...)

Also thanks for the scummy nom, guess I should be retiring now eh? Also thanks to everyone and their kind words. I had fun in this game, but it's going to take me a little time to recover I think.

Come to think of it, I can't imagine what it's like to have to play Mafia 24/7 with Zach around. I know my RL suffers when Mafia stresses me out, so etc.

It was a quality job. Be proud. And be like me and fear the next scum game where you'll have to do better.~