Mini 929: Whedonesque Mafia (Game Over)

[farside22]

vote: Vaya

Will you be flaking in this game and quiet as you were in the last game we were in together?

[farside22]

Flaking...? Ew.

Well she was almost replaced twice and said next to nothing all game long.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12937

[farside22]

I replaced Vaya in another game. I haven't really been impressed by her play as of late.

Is the game still ongoing? I'm wondering if she is the same no matter her alignment.

[farside22]

Just did a quick search and found she is indeed lurkerish no matter her alignment

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0

That game she posted twice and was replaced.

[farside22]

So why the aggression, Farside? The others seemed a little more reasonable about it, and in fact only commented after you did, but you went straight in for a personal attack.

I'm not the biggest fan of RVS. I like to start aggresive to get a game going or it goes stangnat by page 2 to 3 with just votes and nothing more.

[farside22]

I don't know seven and I voted based on meta of vaya.
3 players voting for seven is not a bw in my view.
Most people vote either BW or no reason in RVS it's not always noteworthy and sometimes it is.
In this case I looked at the player list and saw vaya and recalled her lurkering ways in another game.

[farside22]

Uhh, Farside. Where's your meta? Vaya lurks as both town and scum - ergo, no tell, no meta. Please explain.

Did you read my post? I asked her rather bluntly if she was going to be lurking or flaking in this game. It has nothing to do with alignment it is to judge her alignment by her reaction to me calling her out. I'm just starting to test a theory lately on those I know to have......lets say less then stellar play and see if their reaction is scum or town related.

[farside22]

By this same token, others have done similar things already - I just don't see the reason for singling out Vaya so early on. There is in fact, a player who has not posted...

This strikes me as a bit over protective of a player during a random vote stage that is just me voting her.

[farside22]

By this same token, others have done similar things already - I just don't see the reason for singling out Vaya so early on. There is in fact, a player who has not posted...

This strikes me as a bit over protective of a player during a random vote stage that is just me voting her.

Actaully i missed pwnman's vote but still over protective.

Mod: Prod Fate

[farside22]

esuriospiritus: II don't see the misrep. He is saying I believe how he views vaya reaction to being called out. I don't see him saying she is lurkering. I see hims saying she posted when I called her out for lurking.
Also I write like I talk a lot and I see many people who do the same and get called out as scum with either mistype's or wording that people call scum tell's like you stated.

[farside22]

I think the best thing to do with such deadlines is to not panic, and do our best to not rush - the more we panic, the more we rush, the more power the scum have. At the same time, we can't relax, and lurking would be terribly destructive.

Sure 9 days is not horrible but I don't want to see people doing last minute pushes so I may push for more answers, question things more aggressively and vote for people who don't respond in a timely manner as not to have a OMG we need to lynch someone and usually that leads to more mislynches and bw hopping then anything else.

[farside22]

pwnman: Why do you think BW on RVS is worthy of a vote?

So why the aggression, Farside? The others seemed a little more reasonable about it, and in fact only commented after you did, but you went straight in for a personal attack.

Why would you see this as a personal attack on a player who I have meta reason to question her ability to cope in this game?

@Seven: What is your views so far? Why are you up for a vaya bw?

[farside22]

And it wasn't a random vote. Perhaps reading the game properly might help you here?

At what point is a vote not random?
I usually vote RVS in one vote only. Also this looks a bit hypocritcal considering you attacked me for an RVS vote.

[farside22]

(I just realised it wasn't me)Out of site, don't take this as an ad:

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 6&start=15

Started right on that page from a BW with someone calling someone a pedophile. Naive Cop flip

Wow. I never thought I would see a game where a townie was bw lynched on page 2 and not a single scum was on the bw.

[farside22]

Okay, just glanced at the Mini Theme Queue...

Am I still in for Supreme Court? I was killed 929

Err...what?

He had the wrong game number. I'm in another game with he that he was killed in.

As for you view on Az I hope you can read him well in game if you know him in RL. I know many a player that can get confused as both players know each other so well they know how to scam them.
I have an example of this but the game is still ongoing.
That said I never think people will cheat and talk about the game in RL.

[farside22]

The wagons on Seven, Vaya, and Pwnman are all based off people disagreeing with their playstyles. (Cautious, Lurking, and BW fearful respectively)

Fate does not approve.

What are you views on others not mentioned then?

@Seven: Why you you observe what's going on and then vote on a bw? What's the point of the observation? Will you post your view on the BW in question?

[farside22]

ES is still a better wagon, everyone. If we're going to vote people for not voting, Azhrei is up there too.

Why is ES a better wagon?

[farside22]

Rereading Seven in insolation I can see it as a misunderstanding of words. I looked at it as him wanting to jump on a BW but when he worded it here later:

I'm not trying to distance myself from a lynch, there's no lynch to distance myself from. You should wait until there's actually a bandwagon and more votes before you try to call me out for that. Maybe keep this one in your pocket and bring it back out in a couple days. I don't usually vote until pretty late, so it might stick

I started to see how he misspoke and his most recent post lays out the miscommuncation on this. I think I would like to see a view of who seven things is scum and why since he hasn't stated an opinion on that.

Mod: prod vaya and pwnman

With 7 days left I will not let people go 24 hours without posting in here and lurk on by like the game doesn't exist.

ES: Why did you move your vote from jeromus to seven?

[farside22]

Huh, weren't you worried that Vaya would end up doing that?

Doesn't mean I'm going to accept it. Do you think she should be allowed considering she stated she would keep up and not lurky?

[farside22]

Instead you vote yourself for no reason other then to be smart about it and then vote Fate based on something Seven said.

I read that as sarcasm do to Fate's comment about making a case on herself.

I'm going to have a reread of this game and get views up on people tomorrow.
On a side note I saw pwnman posting elsewhere just a few minutes ago.

IGMYOU

[farside22]

I'm gonna

unvote

.

Fate you have absolutely no reasoning(or very poor reasoning) on your accusations and votes. Convince me to not vote you. Otherwise...

unvote:
vote: pwnman

Convince me otherwise.

[farside22]

long post in coming:

Azhrei

- post 30 why do you give vaya the benefit of doubt seeing her past games and many people agreeing with her lurkish ways?
Not sure why it's odd to call out players you have meta on. post 32 idk why but if my vote says she is a known lurker why would this question be asked? Looks like a fluff question.
Are you always on the look out for lurkers? What is your belief as far as town or scum when it comes to lurkers.
post 80 - RVS is random but just because my vote is based on past experience doesn't mean it's not a random. I always look at the list see who I played with and vote for one of them.
It wasn't till recently that I started being on the look out and voting on players with less then stellar plays but it's still a random vote. Just because I don't roll a die or just pick a person off the list doesnt' make my vote any less random.

I find pwnman somewhat scummy in his irrational fear of bandwagoning, but that game does provide more than enough reason for it (what a fail town..), so it seems somewhat of a null-tell, perhaps slightly scummy.

This post is wishy washy.
post 123: I don't like people who talk about who they will vote but don't vote. Talking about voting doesn't do anything and I see no reason not to vote if your suspicious of someone.

esuriospiritus

post47 - I really don't see jeromus as saying that in his post. Idk just something about es words on what she "thinks" jeromus means is off to me. post 97 seems like a force statement at the bottom. idk it just doesn't feel natural when I read it. post 107 this is the second time you used that excuse for your vote on someone. post 141 this is exagerated on what fate said. He didn't defend anyone he said he didn't like the BW's on the players big difference. I keep seeing Esurios create something that was not there in what someone said. She overexaggerated jermous post, seven and fate.

Fate

- post 77 - a bit touchy don't you think? post 101 that's just rediculous. post 143 and 142 both make sense and I agree. Fate sarcasm and wit only get you so far and not far in mafia. I don't think your being clear on your reasoning to people but I do see Esurious comments and defense of vaya both together look scummy

iamausername

- post 35: What are you asking bv310 if he agrees with and why bv310?

jeromus

- post 39: I honestly don't like lurkers as a general rule. If your going to play, then play. That said I wonder more now why AZ was defending Vaya especially with her BW vote and no comment when vaya voted. POST 149 why are you voting fate here?

pwnman

- post 168 scum! Were you not the one talking about BW and why you do not like them. Are you even reading the game?

Starbuck

- would like to hear more from SB. post 79 seems well reasoned and I found myself agreeing.

Seven

post 75 - how dare you not know Seinfeld! post 84: I have to disagree I think when multiple people tell you a player acts like X it's more likely true then not. Post 86: Have you gone back to try and reread and see if something was missed or if there was a question that should be asked? I don't like the idea of just waiting.

Vaya

- Post 29 claims there will be no issue with her activity (mon). post 58 Following Es's reason's and voting jeromus. (tue) I have seen two cases of Vaya buddying up. One with AZ and the other with ES. Both who defend her. post 133 of course she see's nothing scummy about someone who defended her. Why does fate's vote bother you? Post 135 at best it's a null tell as scum do it to buddy up to a towny too.
Why is vaya assuming that ES is townie doing this over scum?

Top scum players in short, pwnman willing to jump on a BW with no reason after saying he doesn't like them. Not giving an reason and actively lurking
Vaya: Following Es, buddying ES and Az, doesn't give input and says as town she defends people all the time. This assumes Es is town.
Es: She has made 3 cases all more then what they were. She has overexaggerated in my view things that were said. Twice she has used the same excuse for her vote saying it was better then random. The buddying with Vaya and her is hard to ignore

[farside22]

I'm not in farside's long post, she hates me

I agree with her posting on her top scum member (obv since I have my vote there as well) though I am not sure about vaya or es right now.

I could find anything to ask you. You have been thoughtful in your comments, probing and I didn't see anything that needed to be addressed.

[farside22]

Pwnman- The epitome of a baseless case. "Convince me otherwise." No one has jumped on him for not explaining his case on me. Ironic, right?

What am I chopped liver? Sure I didn't ask pwnman to explain his vote in such a brash tone but I think my post is clear I find his post scummy and he needs to explain his vote.

[farside22]

buddying with Az

Vaya, what's your view on my defense of you? You neglected to mention it.

It doesn't bother me. I tend to call it out as town too when I feel someone is being unjustly attacked, so I can understand it coming from a town point of view.

There's nothing wrong about me following Es there. When I read jero's post, before I saw Es's post, I had the same reaction to it as her. This, BTW, is a big reason I believe she's town. I believe that someone who sees something the same as I do like that is likely to be playing to the same win condition I am.

So anyone who doesn't have the same view must be scum? How do I know you had the same reaction? It looks like following with the I agree comments.

Farside's whole segment on me is just awful.

Wow I wonder why she disagree's with me. Oh it's because I didn't defender her like Es did.

As I already explained to wolf in my next post after that one, the fact that it's null is my point.

I don't see you saying that till someone points it out. You continue to say town now about Es and based on something that is null.

[farside22]

That's not buddying, that's just answering his question, I don't happen to find someone defending someone else to be scummy. Are you trying to tell me how I'm supposed to feel about his defense of me? What would you consider a townie response to his question?

Your almost calling Az town in that post. The Oh I do that as town too and see it from a town point of view.
Did you want to paint a T on her chest in red for everyone to see too or something? If that isn't butt kissing I sure as hell don't know what else to call it.
Me I'm suspicious of anyone who defends me. I don't like people who buddy as it's typically scum trying to get on my good side.

farside said:

So anyone who doesn't have the same view must be scum? How do I know you had the same reaction? It looks like following with the I agree comments

.

Where are you getting that I even implied that the inverse is of that is true?

I believe that someone who sees something the same as I do like that is likely to be playing to the same win condition I am

.

What else was this supposed to mean if I'm wrong?

Agreeing by the way isn't, following a player is a scum tell. I see scum say oh far is right and I see it too many a time.

What kind of comment is this? Why would you expect me to agree with someone's case against me?

Sarcasitic

[farside22]

Hold off the wagon people.

1. I didn't vote Fate. He hasn't been explaining that much, but I didn't vote him

2. I gave my reasons in my "Convince me otherwise" post

1. no one said you did

2. why did you believe fate is scum. Expand on it more then 2 lines that look like a repeat of what was already said.
Also now that fate has expanded what is your current view.

[farside22]

Why do you say that I'm following him and just not agreeing with him? What's the difference?

Es posted first and you post your thoughts right after.
I don't always think a person is just agreeing with a player. I'm suspicious of things like that.

And that's just your opinion of defense of other players, me having a different opinion doesn't make me scum.

So are you just entitled to your opinion on players and no one call call you out? I can't question or see your motives as scummy or wonder if what I'm seeing is buddying? You seem to imply I'm scum based on my opinion of you.

[farside22]

Err...Excuse me - See Seven? I'm sorry, but you must be wearing some form of blinkers.

Did Seven blind a case on the player? That was what Az did.

[farside22]

Oh, and also @Farside:

imo, following is more of an inexperience tell than a scum tell, if we're talking about the person doing the following (only briefly skimmed anything past a couple posts into page 7 so far, not gonna check context yet). But hey, you've been playing mafia longer than I have, even counting my experience elsewhere. /shrug

Okay, now I

really

have to get to bed. Sorry guys. :/

Vaya doesn't seem inexperience to me.

[farside22]

@farside 175: You agree with 142 and 143? I think you skipped 144. By Fate's own logic I didn't defend Vaya, unless he wants to agree that he defended Seven, pwnman, and whoever else was that third wagon.

How is this consider defending a player? I see it as him not liking the wagons on the players nothing more, nothing less.

The wagons on Seven, Vaya, and Pwnman are all based off people disagreeing with their playstyles. (Cautious, Lurking, and BW fearful respectively)

Fate does not approve.

[farside22]

weekends are hard for me. I will have more substance tomorrow.

[farside22]

bv: you have been really quiet about what is going on can you please state more about your thoughts on who you think is scum and why.

jeromus: Why do you find vaya the most pro-town player in the game?
Post 197 from me should say did Seven build a case on a player.

="es"I did catch something that I didn't notice when I made that post, though: you and I appear to have different definitions of what "following" entails, and I was going by my definition in that post. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to define it as "agreeing with a player in a short time frame or within very few posts, perhaps suggesting that some quicktopic conspiracy was involved."

Following is someone who latches onto an idea or post that another player stated. Vaya has done this on 2 separate occasions. It's something I will continue to watch as it's not how close she posted next to you. Although I find it odd the times she does post is when I made my post about my suspicion and then later she post an agreement post with you. So it's possible she's just watching the game and responding after the fact. Again it's something I'm on the look at for.
Now I know the first time you asked people if they agreed with you about what jermous said and again part of my view vaya is going to agree with you as what jermous said was against her.

[farside22]

@Farside: Fate's definition of defense: "Notice I did not call any of the aforementioned players town, so, no, it was not a defense." -142. What I was saying is that by his own definition of a defense, the only person out of himself, Vaya and I who was defending anyone was Vaya. If he wants to insist that part of his "case" on me is that Vaya and I defended each other, then he needs to agree that he defended Seven, Vaya, and Pwnman, otherwise he's holding me to a double standard and expecting me to just be fine and dandy with it.

Where did Fate say what a defense was? Can you provide the quote in regards to this.

@Azhrei: I'm pretty sure Farside is always aggressive, to the point where there's pretty much no point in even noting it. Razz This is just going off of a few random games involving her that I've read bits and pieces of, though.

Not all games. I would say it depends on the game. Sometimes I sit back for a day and read things and sometimes I"m aggressive. It depends on the game (deadlines and such), the players in the game, and how I feel on the day I'm typing. When I'm wrong about someone there are times I step back and read the game and try and think about what I missed.

[farside22]

Iam: I may have missed this but what is the point of asking another player about your vote? What were you hopping to gain from asking?

[farside22]

@Farside: Fate's definition of defense: "Notice I did not call any of the aforementioned players town, so, no, it was not a defense." -142.

Where did Fate say what a defense was? Can you provide the quote in regards to this.

Er... I did?

/points up at the quote within a quote

And here's a link, because I'm just so damn helpful like that.

Okay then I'm confused how is fate defending a player with his line?

[farside22]

Is it just me, or has there been a lot of subtle buddying between Fate and Iam?

Lets see if vaya agree with you on that

[farside22]

Okay here is how I see this. Fate is saying from this quote he sees Esuriospiritus and vaya defending each other.

Vaya opened with 2 words, then only posted when someone called her out for lurking. I believe this warrants frustration, if, admittedly, not suspicion.

This is harsh wording, if not an attempted misrep. Only 8 hours passed between Vaya's first post and her second post, which hardly constitutes as lurking even in a "short" deadline game (and is far better than the amount of time passed between my first and second posts. <_<; )

I find it confusing that Jeromus would word Vaya's actions to make them seem worse than they are, then defend her actions as frustrating but not suspicious. Maybe I'm trying too hard to find something good and get us further out of the RVS, but I also find his use of the word "admittedly" to be odd. I personally take the usage of such phrases as "admittedly" and "to be honest" as a subconscious tack-on that means, "I don't want to admit this, but I will anyway because I get something out of putting it out there, such as appearing slightly more pro-town or avoiding taking a stance". If you're admitting or being honest about this one thing, what are you omitting?

In other words, I consider it a slight scum-tell, though it's the misrep that bothers me more.

unvote; vote: jeromus

...better than random. Let's see where this goes.

Right now, esurio comes off as fairly town to me, and I don't see what someone would find scummy about her. So Fate's vote on her bothers me, and I want to hear an explanation for it from him.

Unvote
Vote: Fate

They came to each other's defense. Do I really need to spell it out?

So post 142 of fates clarifying that he does not like the wagon's formed on seven or vayv (sorry I think there is a 3rd can't recall right this second) is not the same defending as these statements.

As I said he was commenting from what I read that he didn't like the wagon's formed on the players. This does not = defending even based on his defintion.

[farside22]

okay I'm no longer confused about the issue. After rereading the post that fate considered defending. I disagree that with fate. I don't see Es as defending vaya. I see it as I said her wording a post by another player incorrectly.
Vaya isn't defending Es. I called that one buddying.

So Es is correct in her comment about Fate. I don't know why but I kept reading the argument over and over and I thought I was missing Es's view on the subject.

That said I still don't see a case on Fate. I see many arguments going on between some players where as we have a player talking about voting without saying why or offering anything.

[farside22]

Also Iam, you seem to be pretty up in arms about an RVS vote (something that you could have easily looked up yourself via iso), what's with the overreaction?

Do you really think this comment is being up in arms over and RVS vote?

Starbuck, why are you voting me? You're getting on Seven's case for supporting bandwagons without voting, and yet you're still sitting on a random vote that, as far as I'm aware, you don't have any reason for. Something doesn't add up there.

I think he's questioning your lack of vote on seven more then your vote on him.
I really don't see this as "up in arms"

[farside22]

unvote:

I watched too much Angel not to believe.
I need to see who is jumping. I remember I stated that dragging things out can start a BW on a player at the last minute deadline.

[farside22]

Sorry for the double post. Seven why do you not believe pwnman's claim?
Pwnman: You need to stated you views on who you think is scum and why A.S.A.P.

[farside22]

Farside - Look...I've really got nothing. You say a lot of what other people say, only badly phrased, but it's hardly a solid tell.

Badly phrased?
I'm sorry but I need an explanation on this. I believe I pointed out Es misinterperting 2 post both which I disagreed with. I don't see how I say what others say. I read and post my own views. If you have an example of this I would like to see.
I think Fate was the only post and arguement I was most confused on.
As for players you seem to think those I felt scum are town. (IE: Es and vaya)

[farside22]

I went to bed and missed a lot it seems.

[farside22]

It would appear you slept for quite a while, farside XD

Hurry up and get rid of me, Mod! The temptation keeps me patrolling this part of town!

Not that I have to explain myself but if you didn't know I'm a mom and wife and have something called family time.

[farside22]

I noticed vaya did a lot of following all day 1. The only time she state suspicion on jermous was early in the day from something that Es pointed out.

vote: vaya

[farside22]

from wiki:

The Traitor is a role with a pro-Mafia alignment that is not actually in the Mafia family. The Traitor knows who is in the Mafia, but the Mafia do not know who the Traitor is. The Traitor uses through his or her vote to keep the Mafia from getting lynched and wins with the Mafia.

Traitors appears as 'innocent' to cops and sometimes have investigative abilities whose results will help the mafia learn who the town power roles are. But they cannot divulge that information privately until they are recruited by the Mafia, at which point they lose their investigative ability and become a mafia goon.

Most times, the Mafia has to give up their night-kill in order to recruit the Traitor. If the Mafia targets the Traitor for a night-kill, then they may either kill the Traitor(!) or recruit the Traitor depending on the mod's predetermined choice.

In games where the Traitor cannot be recruited, the Traitor usually loses automatically if the "main" Mafia group is lynched or otherwise removed from the game.

I see this as the traitor knowing scum but the scum doesn't know the traitor. Did I miss something?

[farside22]

Probably didn't make myself clear:

I thought you were voting Vaya for an early distancing attempt, which would have been impossible, but you are voting him for other reasons.

I'm just crazy I guess...

I was talking about her vote on jermos. There was no reason there. It is more following from her and I was pointing out that she never stated anything suspicion from him except very early on.
All she has done is follow or a fight with me.

[farside22]

Az: Who is scum? So far I see short post with defense of es but no thoughts of your scum suspects yet.

Mod: Prod Vaya and pwnman while your prodding SB.

[farside22]

I never had a traitor in a game before but my experience with most players that are scum is they buddy up to a player that is town.
Looking at Jermous plays it definitely looks to be buddying up to Es. It's the same thing I accused Vaya of doing day 1.

[farside22]

vaya: Why did you put jero at l-1?

[farside22]

However,

Vote: jeromus

Why?

Because he followed me straight away on voting pwnman (putting him at l-1, pre-claiming), piggybacking off my reasoning, he followed me and esurio both a little on Fate, his posting has been mostly humorous with little substance, and he hasn't really contributed much of his material. oh, and he keeps insulting me

Az can you explain why you didn't see this sooner and it didn't strike you till after jero posted his thoughts on players in the game?

[farside22]

Sorry for the triple post but I'm reading a few players in isolation. Vaya I noticed you also voted for pwnman for no reason
here
I currently am looking at you to provide a players you believe to be scum and why right now.

Az: Just another question. You state you noticed jero following you, es and fate with little reasoning. What do you thing about Vaya and her votes thus far?

[farside22]

And Vaya, of anyone here, I think I have the best chance of getting into this scum's head. Just saying. And your reaction "Oh, it wouldn't matter if I did pout out an alternative, town situation" and "I'm going to vote, but with no reason, and claim that me doing that earlier was a townie tactic too" I don't like. Yes, this case strarted weak, but your reaction makes it stronger, as far as I'm seeing it.

Also I find gut feel is often a valuable tool, especially when combined with more logical reasons. Most experienced players will agree, in my experience

.

I'm a bit confused with your first paragraph here can you rewrite this?

I understand gut. I have many moments of gut calls and something that reads off on a player, but so far all of her attacks are based on what I said about her. It's more OMGUS then gut in my view.

[farside22]

Vaya I noticed you also voted for pwnman for no reason
here
I currently am looking at you to provide a players you believe to be scum and why right now.

[farside22]

Oops, didn't mean to click submit there, I have a few more responses to others in a bit.

Sorry I thought you were done. You can ignore the quote if your still going through things

[farside22]

More importantly, ES is an ugly abbreviation of what is otherwise an aesthetically appealing handle. As weird as this may sound, I actually care about this sort of thing, as I happen to be quite the logoleptic (in case that wasn't already obvious).

Can I suggest "

esu

"?

That's what I use for my own notes, and unless someone uses the lords name in vain, it hardly gets used otherwise.

Besides, I don't like ES either.

I hereby officially recommend everyone to abbreviate esuriospiritus using "esu" -.-

I will be working on that as well. I will have more notes on a few players later today.

[farside22]

@Iam: Esurio's flip will tell us plenty with regards to both Farside and Wolf. Join my wagon please?

How so?

[farside22]

@Iam: Esurio's flip will tell us plenty with regards to both Farside and Wolf. Join my wagon please?

How so?

Heh. Wasn't the reaction I was looking for. This earns you plenty of scumpoints.

Are you worried? Want to start changing your play accordingly?

No I'm not worried. Why should I change anything I'm looking for scum.

[farside22]

Then why did you ask?

Because I see no reason for your statement. Will you be continuing your vague antaganize all game?

[farside22]

I have a start on this right now. I will see if I can finish before I leave today.
Let me get the start of my reads in isolation first

Azhrei - I have a mixed view. He is asking lots questions. I see he cuts to the quick with his views. He had the same views I did orginally with jero's post. There are times where I also felt he was conservative and more just "testing" or commenting but not voting: here This is just on the wings of waiting to see so he doesn't commit himself
here more waiting. Maybe it's just because I'm more agressive it just feels off. His view on fate orginally comes off as more personal then finding Fate scummy.
Reading this this doesn't give much insight either.
I can't say looking at his pwnman vote saying he doesn't see anything else scummy really award winning.
I don't know about jero. It's why I question Azhrei more on why he didn't see what jero did earlier. It feels like an ah ha moment but with no hints from earlier on this suspicion.....idk. I know I have had moments where i found something I didnt' see before but the noncommital who is scum post leaves me a little meh on Az.
Right now I have a moderate read on Azhrei with a IGMYOU> I would like to here more from him as well as who he suspects as scum and why.

bv310 - bv is one of those players that just gives you nothing. No real oppion. Only voted for Seven and pwnman. I see a lot of under the radar type play from him. I know from seeing him in Big brother mafia he can contribute better then he has. Possible scum

esuriospiritus - My biggest issue was how I felt that esurio interpted jero and then seven's views. I disagreed with her on both cases. Other then that she defends herself well under the pressure from Iam and Fate on a case I just didn't really get. In fact reading the case on her day 1 seemed overblow on reeveluation.
Not sure I'm big on the lurker vote at this stage in the game. I actually would like to see a fleshed out case from esurio on his top suspects. I really don't see what is different from what esu post in regards to jero that azh didn't say a bit himself. I get more of a fustrated town read from esu. There were a few points I found that were overblown but she found in all that argument to scum hunt and not just defend herself. she had points towards the end and I don't see a real case based on scum buddying up to be sufficent. (Again I see scum buddy up more to someone town then scum and traitor is not something I ever had in a game before)
I have as of now a neutral read on esurio. Most people seem to think jero was signaling to esurio. I will look into that after I my other reads


Fate - The most all over the place and cause reaction player in the game. Seems to have a super secrete reason for thinking esurio scum here
Likes to goad players. Yay I actually get this Reading this I understand more his reasoning. I have seen town and scum be inconsistence it's a human tencancy in my view.
Have you ever read someone who thought they were full of themself and how they played a game? Well reading Fate is like reading someone who enjoys ruffling feathers.
I don't always see everything as sound as he does. He seems to enjoy teasing and bantering with his prey that he finds scummy and I think he does this for reaction purposes.
As much as I'm not a fan of some of his play here I read Fate as town.

[farside22]

I have one more person to look into and then look into jero after to see connections but I want to post this before I leave



iamausername - I don't really get the build a case on yourself issue. Iam is most of your case on esurio based only one what jero stated?
Why the flip of vote from seven to SB? I don't see a reason that you gave up on seven to go for SB in isolation.
I notice that when iam changes votes from seven to sb and then to jero it's based on what they said. He's not aggressively going after the person he called out and then jumps on the next thing he finds scummy.
His latest list of players and what he finds on them is indepth with sound reasoning. I find his jumping votes a bit odd. Again this could be because I'm more aggresive towards someone and get everything I can get unless someone does something that I found more scummy and I don't see why he found one player more scummy.
Right now iam is someone I have an eye on.

pwnman - I noticed pwnman being replaced elsewhere. Most likely will be modkilled and based on jero's vote probable town.

Starbuck - She seems to be not really saying much and just posting in the game at things that strike her. She kept her RVS vote for quiet some time and then gets all antsy with iam when he questions her about her vote.
After all her comments towards seven and her suspicion her vote on Fate comes off as OMGUS. She talks about voting an active lurker but doesnt' place her vote here
There is very little voting from SB and I know players look to see who is voting for whom to get an idea on scum. She hasn't really been giving much of any views on who she thinks is scum and seems to hold back her vote which is really scummy. I already said if you feel someone is scum a vote can be your most valuable tool to get scum outted.
She reads more as actively lurker and I read as probably scum.

Vaya - as I said I detected early on buddying from vaya here
defending her buddy here. Never says why she think esu is town.
Was willing to lynch pwnman and then switched to jero so there would be a lynch. Let not forget the OMGUS vote on me currently
Lets not forget a bit hypocritcal of a comments seeing her reason's for voting me thus far:
I think that cases based mainly on interactions like this and pretending to be able to get inside the scum's head and understand what he was thinking with the things he's said and the stances he choose to take are weak and stupid. Especially since I've recently been mislynched as town for it and that my general experience is that such cases based only on interactions are usually ineffective.

Same goes for votes based on "a funny feeling" from a person's posts, which is more likely to come from a person's posting style than anything alignment related. For what it counts, I've had others say that I have a style that tends to make them think I'm scum when I'm town.

Vaya goes from buddying to defending said buddy. She OMGUS votes me based on gut and then does the comment above which just smacks of hypcrosy. Never mind I have yet to see her scum hunt or give reasons for her town or scum votes that were not following someone else.

[farside22]

Cant' we all just get along.

Starbuck I would like you to address my post on your play so far this game. I have found you jumpy when questioned and not informative as far as looking for scum.

[farside22]

wolf - Questions players. Seems more obvserverish then aggresive. Wolf do you find scum are typically lukers? I notice his only real serious scum suspect day 1 was pwnman. He agreed with posting my top scum suspects but doesn't post his own thoughts. Day 1 is really under the radar. No real push on anyone but lurker pwnman.
I feel his case is a bit of a stregth on esu. Is someone makes an observation on a player that isn't correct or accurate aren't you going to wonder about this? I also don't see as I stated eariler the difference between what esu stated over azh. They both felt something off on jero's list.
Wolf so far is not giving much of his thoughts. He's playing very queit, questioning and his lurker vote throughtout day 1 bothers me the most as there is no other suspects he declares. I wonder if he is following fate to appear more town. His excuse here is only during part of the day. Most of the rest of the day his quiet and under the radar play can't be explained by a V/LA time.
I read wolf as highly questionable.


Jero:

So things that stand out from jero are as follows
here looks to be a bit of coaching towards vaya
Here he talks to SB about a past game I wonder if that was to get attention from her here He looks back and realizes that iam was there as well. Yeah I could see this as a signal to SB.
more coaching of vaya here
He does defend esurio here
More buddying to esurio here
jero's vote and reasoning for his vote on Fate leads more and more fate is town. I see scum bussing and this doesn't read as such.

I do have to admit this is oddly typed

Well - I'm with Esurio - I see no reason i would benefit the town.

And now jero defends esurio again here
Calls vaya town without a good reason.

This reads of a plea to a scum buddy

Bv310? - I've got nothing. Try posting. Please, I beg of you.

And even more praise to vaya

Vaya - You're also neutral, perhaps even pro-town. You don't post much, but when you do, your logic is sound and your posts contain appropriate and valid content. Keep that up . But change your gorramned avatar.

In short I can see a connection to vaya. jero's little comments and defense of esurio leave me wondering more and more about esurio as scum. There were also a note to SB and bv I found within jero's posting I see connections with.
I know scum buddy up to town but with a traitor I have to wonder if it wasn't a signal to a scum buddy. The soft coaching to vaya, the comments and way he typed things in regards to esurio all look to be valid signals from a scum buddy trying to get attention to their scum partners.
I can see more and more vaya and esurio scum.

[farside22]

The middle ground is Esurio!! Come on farside! Pleeeeeeeeeeaseeee

@Starbuck: Looking forward to all your cases and such.

I would like to hear from SB, esurio and azh. maybe even bv.
I believe there is still time for discussion.

[farside22]

Just looked and I saw tuesday that we had 5 days which mean 2 days. More talk from those quiet one's being accused.

[farside22]

I find it hard to believe that anyone would actually have a playstyle of getting under people's skin and refusing to answer half their questions unless they were intentionally playing dodgy as town in order to more easily get away with it as scum (and from what I've seen that's even more of a no-no here than talking about the night kill).

Actually Fate reminds me of ABR in a mason/monk game we were in where he would vote and make comments but be vague on reasoning for his vote. Day 1 do to his method he found scum that reminds me a lot of what esu is acting like in here.

unvote:
vote:esurio

[farside22]

Azh I more wanted to in short just here who your scum suspect were and why.

Esu: Why did you vote for vaya?

[farside22]

Iam: bv310 was town in BB mafia game.
esurio: I apologize for the question I saw the unvote and vote and thought you were voting for someone new.
Iam: What do you think of esurio's vote and reasoning on vaya?

Esurio: What is your view of SB?

[farside22]

I need to look the character up. I don't take a threat of being shot by another player lightly and all it does is kill a townie.

fos: vaya

this is till I look up the character info.

[farside22]

Okay I just read up on the character. Damn me for not knowing Firefly characters as well
http://www.fireflywiki.org/Firefly/JayneCobb

This doesn't scream 1 shot vig to me.
I suspect a fake claim.

unvote:
vote: vaya

[farside22]

I'm find no pro-town reason for vaya to not agree with who to shot.

[farside22]

This is a big assumption to make and leaving the scum with WIFOM for them

Now, Vaya, you announced you were going to shoot Farside. I, for the life of me, can't find any pro-town motivations behind

that

. NOW if farside is scum she can stop you, if not, let you kill, etc.
)

Just because I loved the season in question on Willow.
Willow went dark and evil after Tara died. I had wondered deep down if the mod would turn willow into a serial killer after tara's death.

[farside22]

Also, I think farside's reaction to my claim and intention to shoot her is interesting. She jumps at me and tries to push for my lynch today, as if she were threatened by my shot. If she is scum, I think it's likely that she has no way of preventing me from killing her.

Yeah it has nothing to do with the fact I'm town who doesn't like the idea of being shot at. But if you feel the need to shot me with the intent to kill me. I'm not going to be there for it.

[farside22]

Lazy quote to affirm no hammer has been recorded

"Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."

VoteCount 2.4

L-1

Starbuck

(iamausername, Vaya, esuriospiritus, Fate, Azhrei)

L-5

Vaya

(farside22)


Not voting:pwnman, bv130, Starbuck, Wolframnhart

With 10 alive, it takes

6 to lynch

Deadline =

10 hours and 10 minutes

Wolf just voted how was it not a hammer?

[farside22]

Then again though, if she were town threatened by my shot, then that would mean she believes my claim, which would make her calling my claim a fakeclaim and trying to get me lynched odd. That seems a little far to go as town for the sake of self-preservation.

The claim doesn't fit the character.

[farside22]

I got clarification from the mod

for my vote to work, everyone on starbucks lynch has to be town, and everyone NOT on her wagon has to be scum. Unfortunately this doesn't truely narrow down people, starbuck could still technically be scum, but that would mean bv310 is town, and vice versa of starbuck being town and bv310 being scum. All this really means is what everyone already knows, that scum is on starbucks wagon/.

unvote

Oh look my #1 suspect is on there.

[farside22]

The quick move from Vaya to me just screams opportunistic to me.

Your not voting and scum could be bussing, but I think with the idea of willow your more likely to turn out to be a SK.

Vaya: Why do you think I'm scum?

[farside22]

Here's what I have issue with as far as the claim

I am Jayne, a mercenary who some may describe as trigger happy. I, once, can shoot someone with my revolver, in other words,

trigger happy = one shot?
Jayne likes his guns and I can see scum trying to say oh I'm just a one shot let me prove it and only shot X.
Tomorrow I expect there to be WIFOM. Tell me how that is wrong to believe?

[farside22]

Vote: Vaya

I'm just asking some questions right now and I doubt your going to tell me, but there was a game I was in X-man mafia, where a character turned serial killer after a death of someone they loved. I figured willow will turn to the dark side with Tara's death.

[farside22]

Vaya: Why do you think I'm scum?

[farside22]

Why don't you believe my claim, especially if you think SB is a SK? Do you actually believe I'm mafia with an extra NK, or do you think I'm scum though it was a good idea to make a fakeclaim I couldn't back up?

Why would I lie about the trigger happy part? The wording of my role PM suggests that this is simply how some others perceive me, not how I actually am.

sorry I was thinking of the movie firefly. idk vaya but you want to shot me so I figure I should question someone who wants to shot a town player with no reason except OMGUS "your case is terrible you must be scum"

[farside22]

wolf what do you think about SB and her claim?

[farside22]

I'm at L-1, so it's claim time.


I am Willow (from Buffy the Vampire Slayer) and a villager.


Every night, I can cast a spell on a player and give them a 50% chance of failure.





For those of you that don't know anything about Buffy, Willow is a witch, but a good one.

SB who did you target night 1?

[farside22]

By the way wolf I have seen scum say good luck town when being hammered.
I don't know why they do it but I don't look at it as a tell any more.

[farside22]

I'm really concerned about Fate and just how much his opinion changes with every posts he makes. His flip-floppyness has been making me nervous, and he is who I targeted last night.

Sorry I missed that. Thanks

[farside22]

sorry I was thinking of the movie firefly.

The TV Show is Firefly.

The Movie sequel is Serenity.

So willow started witchcraft in season 2 and started dark arts towards season 5/6.
I don't like to outguess the mod but .....the flavoring is way different then what both pwnman and vaya had.

Look vaya has a description of her character a bit with the ability and so did pwnman but SB has now flavor of the character description in the claim.

SB what do you have to say about that?

[farside22]

*no flavor
not now.

[farside22]

Just so everyone can see the difference here:

I am Willow (from Buffy the Vampire Slayer) and a villager.

Every night, I can cast a spell on a player and give them a 50% chance of failure.

A watcher/doc not beleivable? Anyways I am Lorne. I own a Karaoke Bar in LA. I can see futures(watcher) and am a gentle kindhearted person(doc).

That is paraphrased and not a quote

I am Jayne, a mercenary who some may describe as trigger happy. I, once, can shoot someone with my revolver, in other words, I am a one-shot vig.

[farside22]

SB who is scum and why?

[farside22]

If wolf is telling the truth about his role we can find the scum today and be done.

Simply put he stated he could not hammer if scum is on a wagon, but can hammer if it's all town. All we have to do is agree on who is the scummiest and hammer on said person.
We find the scums and win.

[farside22]

Exactly. I just want answers to those questions first.

Actually - Farside - Do you have any information regarding Vaya's kill?

I don't know if she targeted me. If she did I know why it failed and I soft claimed early on yesterday why is wouldn't work.

[farside22]

I feel like talking about how disappointed I was with how the ended Dollhouse and Toffer's death on the show was really sad.

@Wolf: Is your hammer ability once per day or is it anytime you hammer?

[farside22]

Awwwwwww, i forgot that topher died

I'm still mad they killed Paul like they did. Don't get me started.

[farside22]

I want wolf to answer my question. We may be able to save ourself all the worry/concern of claiming and just find scum with wolf's ablity alone.

[farside22]

Hi Jero!
*waves* I would bitch about dollhouse all day long given half a chance.

Lost is ending this season and I swear if they fail at giving it a great end I will never watch a series finale again.

*still steaming mad at the prison break finale*

[farside22]

I did try to kill farside, I know nothing about why it failed.

Exactly. I just want answers to those questions first.

Actually - Farside - Do you have any information regarding Vaya's kill?

I don't know if she targeted me. If she did I know why it failed and I soft claimed early on yesterday why is wouldn't work.

Where did you claim this? Why didn't you tell me this directly, and why did you let me waste my shot?

You were not paying attention. You would not listen to those saying you should let the town have a say in things. Why would I blantantly tell you my role if you will just kill a townie without discussion?

[farside22]

I have never watched the Dollhouse series, probably because i haven't had tv in forever, but i'll try to hulu it one of these days, have never seen a Whedon show i didn't like, I even looked up the Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog because of this game.

@Wolf: Is your hammer ability once per day or is it anytime you hammer?

it doesn't say there is a limit, just says when I hammer. I will still wait until we hear from others to see if everyone wants me to full claim, and I will try to go back over my hammering condition at that time too to make sure there is nothing we are missing about it.

You know what I'm thinking on how to use it? Can you confirm with the mod if it's once per game?

[farside22]

Here

Also, I think farside's reaction to my claim and intention to shoot her is interesting. She jumps at me and tries to push for my lynch today, as if she were threatened by my shot. If she is scum, I think it's likely that she has no way of preventing me from killing her.

Yeah it has nothing to do with the fact I'm town who doesn't like the idea of being shot at. But if you feel the need to shot me with the intent to kill me. I'm not going to be there for it.

[farside22]

I had a town read on Fate. Just considered him more *cough* dickish about things.
Let me reread a few things again before deciding on scum between everyone that was on the BW that wolf could not hammer.

[farside22]

I'd be happy with a massclaim at this point. And really, esu and wolf may as well claim now, given that they've pretty much already given us everything but flavor.

Also, I thought wolf's role was still overpowered until I took at his clarification again. Everyone should keep in mind that for him to be able to hammer, everyone NOT on the wagon needs to be scum, which is hopefully impossible at 7 alive and 4 to lynch(there would still need to be three scum alive). His role isn't really of any use to us right now.

If its between Fate and iam today, which I do believe it is due to wolf ability and me being pretty sure everyone else on the wagon is town, I have a preference for iam.

Vote: iamausername

There was a traitor in the game that was lynched day 1. I ususally look at 12 player games as a 3 scum team even if 1 scum wasn't on the team. Do you think it's 3 scum and 1 traitor?

[farside22]

I'm not sure I'm understanding your point vaya.

There is 7 players in the game.
Azhrei
esuriospiritus
farside22
Fate
iamausername
Vaya
wolframnhart

It takes four to lynch. If there is 2 mafia left that means 3 players not voting 2 are scum and wolf votes hammer we know the 2 out of 3 not voting are scum.
I can't see 3 scum left with a serial killer in this game.

[farside22]

I really don't understand how it's impossible for the scum to not be on the wagon?
Am I missing something?

player x, y, and z are town. Wolf is able to hammers

We know players a, b and c not on the wagon are scum

Now if wolf's ability was only on starbuck (I think he is about to claim xandar)

So wolf my question is thus. Is your ability only work on Starbuck? Or are you never able to hammer if scum is on the wagon?

[farside22]

Ok guys about the best way I can describe my hammer condition is if scum is on a wagon AND/OR if town is not, I can't hammer. That is really the jist of it. Also it is not a one time thing. Do people still want me to claim or hold off? I won't be at this point until i get home from work just fyi.

On a wagon? Weird wording. Pretty sure the idea I had on having people vote for one person and doing a switch will find the scum.

[farside22]

OH! I thought I read it that wolf can hammer as long as all players on the wagon were town.

[farside22]

Actually that means scum was indeed on the wagon for SB.
I'm town and assuming that wolf is town. That means if I'm correct about the number of scums in the game. 2 scum players were on SB's wagon.

So I need to look at vaya, fate, Iam and Azhrei.

2 out of 4 of these players are scum.

[farside22]

Oi, i gots bad news town, though good news to scum. I got home and have a message waiting for me from Tony, because the hammer condition i had (and yes I am now using past tense) he realized it could too easily detect scum, so he has now taken it away. :/

Now on with the rest of the game, are we massclaiming today?

I think a mass claim is good. Should there be an order based on who we find scummiest or just claim to claim?
I always think those I find the scummiest should claim. Vaya did that yesterday.
I don't know what's going on with wolf's ability. But I don't see it as scummy.
Both Fate and Iam have the most pressure and I think those 2 should be the first to claim.

[farside22]

interesting I believed pwnman more because of my role but lets have fate or iam go first.

[farside22]

Where's fate?
Come out, come out where ever you are.

[farside22]

I am Angel from the show buffy/angel - I can be the brooding soul that can stay under the shadows (hider) or I can be the dedicated detective to finding those who mean others harm (tracker).

Night 1 I tracked Vaya. She didn't go anywhere.
Night 2 I hid in the shadows

I verified with the mod that my hiding ability is immune to night kills like wiki but can still be investigated.

[farside22]

So did you hide behind anyone night 2? Or do you only hide in shadows and not behind a player like the wiki says?

I hid behind esu.

So what is your thoughts on who is scum wolf?

[farside22]

I had my own suspicion on esu day 2. I didn't see her as obv town.

[farside22]

I think this is the most valid point that Vaya made towards fate

Night 2, he claims to have investigated the person the claimed vig wanted to shoot, which is an awful choice for obvious reasons. I very much doubt that a cop would have actually chosen to have wasted their investigation on someone who was likely to die.

Fate: Why would you investigate a person that someone stated they were going to shoot?

[farside22]

Fate: This makes no sense to me. Why would you investigate someone you had a difficult time reading? You didn't answer why you didn't investigate esu who you went after not just day 1 but day 2 as well.

I find more and more that fate is just lying. It reminds me of the game I played here at MS where I fake claimed cop and said I claimed someone other then who I was suspicious of.

vote: Fate

[farside22]

Here's where I'm confused the most and do not believe you to be telling the truth the most.
First you investigate Seven and he flipped town. At this point if your telling the truth about a guilty then why would you say this

I investigated Farside because if she did in fact get vigged, it would help me narrow down my sanity some more.

If you get a guilty how will this narrow down your sanity? If your so sure Esu was scum day 1, then why not check your sanity on her? Seriously if your telling the truth it makes no sense to say the above. If your questioning your sanity you should check the person you feel is most likely scum.

[farside22]

Here's where I'm confused the most and do not believe you to be telling the truth the most.
First you investigate Seven and he flipped town. At this point if your telling the truth about a guilty then why would you say this

I investigated Farside because if she did in fact get vigged, it would help me narrow down my sanity some more.

If you get a guilty how will this narrow down your sanity? If your so sure Esu was scum day 1, then why not check your sanity on her? Seriously if your telling the truth it makes no sense to say the above. If your questioning your sanity you should check the person you feel is most likely scum.

Missed this post.

I didn't doubt my sanity until I got a guilty on the dead guy, honestly. I wanted to lynch esu, not waste an investgation on her. Your flip would help narrow down my sanity if you were scum, and I got an innocent on you!or a guilty, which would be the difference between insane and paranoid.

We didn't lynch Esu day 2. So again why would you not investigate her to see if there was a difference. Did you really need another dead body flipping town to tell you anything?

As for your comment about bouncy in another game he was a newb. What's your excuse?

[farside22]

Are there any Buffy/Angel fans who can shed some light on what kind of cop it would most make sense for Kate Lockley to be, flavourwise?

Someone needs to unvote, we are NOT hammering this early and anyone who does is obvscum.

Farside: If you hide behind scum, will you die?

I'm trying to remember more about the character.
I will ask the mod he was vague in the PM if I die or not I just assumed normal hider rule.

[farside22]

I watch Angel but for some reason I barely remember Kate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Lockley

[farside22]

Not sure I get any flavor from this post.
Plus way would azh have flavor that something could him him.

Well I'm lockeng up and going to bed now.

I am Kate Lockley, a cop with the LAPD. I'm a rationalist, more flavor that I don't know understand references too, etc. Evil, darkness, etc.

N1: Innocent on Seven
N2: Innocent on Farside

[farside22]

Farside: If you hide behind scum, will you die?

The mod maybe. He was very vague. Then he said read the role again, which I did and it doesn't mention dying when targeting scum with my hiding ability.

[farside22]

I am Angel from the show buffy/angel - I can be the brooding soul that can stay under the shadows (hider) or I can be the dedicated detective to finding those who mean others harm (tracker).

Night 1 I tracked Vaya. She didn't go anywhere.
Night 2 I hid in the shadows

I verified with the mod that my hiding ability is immune to night kills like wiki but can still be investigated.

Hmmm I forgot this. Vaya went NOWHERE? Oh hell, their claims just match each other perfectly, don't they!?

Farside voted Vaya immediately after N1. Is this consistent with tracking someone nowhere? Farside, why didn't you think that with 2 scum left, both would have actions of some sort? Especially with an "interesting" role like yours.

God we have to lynch one of them. Her claim is basically a mirror of Pwnman's! The first to and only one to claim D1! THEY THOUGHT UP THIS PLAN N1 I GUARANTEE IT, BASED OFF PWNMAN's CLAIM.

Vote: Vaya

Hypocritical much?

There should be more then one scum in this game left. I believe there is 2 left and just because she went no where day 1 doesn't mean she's clear in my view. Do you really believe that just because she went no where that clears her in my view based on her behavoir?

I'm calling Fate/Iam scum team. He and Iam are trying really hard at not bussing each other.

[farside22]

We didn't lynch Esu D2, because bv130 basically said she was town. And, as Iam said, the only way to confirm my sanity (as useful) would be to investigate scum and get an innocent. Then again, I could be random, and get an innocent on an innocent. HENCE why I choose someone who I thought might die.

Did you believe bv310? Did you say you believed him?

Lets see what you said

Let's see. Now that bv310 is softdefending ESU, I am more likely to see Jeromus not directly linking himself with any of his buddies so obviously (scum rarely do, but Jeromus was hinting "newbie" with that self-hammer), and the "egg on a town on town fight" case.

Wow nice 180 degree turn here. When how many times did you push ESU based on what jero said in his post? Should we really count?

We didn't lynch Esu D2, because bv130 basically said she was town. And, as Iam said, the only way to confirm my sanity (as useful) would be to investigate scum and get an innocent. Then again, I could be random, and get an innocent on an innocent. HENCE why I choose someone who I thought might die.

What use is investigating a play you believe will be dead? How does this confirm your sanity? Once you got a guilty on someone that flipped town and is dead don't you think hey I may be insane?

[farside22]

Plus way would azh have flavor that something could him him.

Oh, one last thing before I go, what in hell does this even mean? Sorry, but you're making no sense here.

I honesty don't know what I was saying there at all.
Did everyone just ignore the fact that as a tracker I'm not getting a guilty/innocent for sure result. I follow a player and get told if they target someone.
Seriously just because a player doesn't go somewhere one night doesn't mean they are not scum.
I need to read the rest of this. I know I"m not scum and I have been after vaya since day 1. If you believe Fate who says things like why would jero vote me if I was scum but me attacking vaya since day one rise's him up on the hypocritical scale.

[farside22]

Farside voted Vaya immediately after N1. Is this consistent with tracking someone nowhere? Farside, why didn't you think that with 2 scum left, both would have actions of some sort? Especially with an "interesting" role like yours.

Why would I think this? Do you know that all the scum left have an ability?

[farside22]

="far""Iam and Fate are trying really hard not to buss each other."

Farside-town would not say this. Would magical world do you live in where Iam and myself are both scum? I agree that from everyone else's point of view, they should see at least one possible scum between the two of us (one buddying up to town), but BOTH? Scum are never that suicidal. There numbers are just way too few. Especially with their traitor dead.

Let me show you today alone what these two have said to each other.

Also, Iam, I'd expect a better fakeclaim than that. With all these crazy roles so far, the possibilities are endless!

Here I see this as disappointment with Iam's claim and calling him out. If fate really saw Iam's claim as fake he would have voted for him.

That said, Iam is sliding under the radar here.

Vote: Iam

Possibly with Azhrei.

Here is a laughable little reason for voting for someone at this stage. This strikes me as a throw-away bus vote

But that, I can see coming from a town Fate not thinking things through enough. The lying, not so much. I'm not ready to hammer right now, but unless Fate can give a much better reason for his lying than "trying to draw a NK", I'm having a hard time seeing how he can not be the lynch today.

Here iam hints about hammering Fate although he defended as well in this same post.
IE: I see scum trying hard not to bus with light comments so they can come back and vote on each other later and say see I was right BS, BS, BS

[farside22]

IMO, farside+Fate seems more likely right now than iam+Fate.

Why?

I just get the impression that they're distancing from each other in these last few pages. I'm especially getting that impression from farside's end.

Are you really going to rule out farside as scum if you see I'm town? There's no reason for you to.

Wow this is just anyone then you comment right here. You have been pushing me as scum since day 1 with no reason at all.

I swear everyone in this game just put me on ignore with my points.

[farside22]

I'm calling Fate/Iam scum team. He and Iam are trying really hard at not bussing each other.

I'm buying Fate's explanation for lying a lot more than I'm buying her explanation for going after Vaya when she tracked him going nowhere. His reasons are all very wrong, but I believe that he believes them.

Notice he doesn't say why he doesn't buy it and he's probably not hammering knowing it would look scummy.

[farside22]

Oh and lets not forget the so called cop got the same results on me as seven. So your logic in voting on me is what Iam?

[farside22]

Oh and lets not forget the

so called cop

got the same results on me as seven. So your logic in voting on me is what Iam?

You DON'T get to have it both ways. You can't think I'm scum and then use my results as a defense. "Fate's obvscums his results mean nothing..." "Hey Iam the "cop" has a same result on me as a townie, why are you lynching me?"

No. Not gonna fly.

Read the bold.
If Iam believes your claim then why does he think I'm scum. I don't believe the claim This is in regards to Iam's belief. Stop trying to reach. Your failing scum.

[farside22]

Iam keeps saying I'm scummier then vaya with no case. I'm starting to wonder if vaya and iam are scum together at this point as they both have said the same thing about me.

[farside22]

OK, done with the rereading:

Azhrei

My #1 town read. I think esurio makes excellent points regarding jeromus's interactions with him displaying signs of being concerned that Azhrei would figure him out, and his posts in general just give me a good feeling, especially Post #301 which was not only a fairly pivotal moment in getting jeromus lynched yesterday, but clearly shows Azhrei actually thinking critically about things. He'd spent most of the day being on the side of jeromus et al in hounding Fate, but when jeromus started doing so in a really scummy manner, Azhrei was one of the first to pick up on it and take him to task for it. I think it would benefit scum greatly to keep the spirit of there being two sides - the pro-Fate and anti-Fate camps - and by crossing from one to the other, Azhrei did much to shut that down.

farside22

I'm wary of her, because I am always wary of farside. She's one player that I just can't read, ever, so I'm kind of hoping that something or other will happen that'll mean I don't have to evaluate her on her words alone. Dead scum traitor not showing any signs of protecting her is a good sign, but it could just be because she didn't need any protecting. Not seeing a reason to go after her at the moment, but you know, once bitten twice shy and all that.

Fate

Definitely having a hard time seeing him as scum after how much jeromus pushed his lynch, and more to the point, tried to influence everyone else into pushing his lynch. #2 town read, and I'm pretty damn confident about both.

Vaya

Not seeing it. Not seeing where jeromus is so obv protecting him, not seeing any huge scumminess in his posts.


So, in summary, I'd definitely prefer esurio to Vaya, which seems to be the two directions we're considering taking, but it really ought to be Starbuck. I could also see bv310 or wolfram as being worthwile pursuits.

This post Iam? This post that says next to no reason on why Vaya isn't scum. And the only reason you have concern with me is a past game.

[farside22]

Since it's close to bed. Go find me where you called Vaya town Iam. I would like to see if you put sound reasoning on there before today.

[farside22]

Fate's saying Vaya is looking for scum pairs and what I'm not?
Did anyone else miss my quotes with Fate and Iam here?
Also how am I not scum hunting when I question fate and Iam in regards to this complete flip of looks she's scum and her tracking ability makes no sense.
Where did you find that all scum have an ability that I'm not aware of Fate?
Where is Iam to answer my question about the so called cop claim he believes.

Oh wait Fate's voting for me he must not believe his own claim now.

Azhrei and Esu what do you think about the pairing I did with Iam and Fate? What do you think of both their reactions trying to vote me and their reason's so far?

[farside22]

I also notice Fate stated the following here

So, Farside voters, why Farside and not Vaya?

But between that comment and this:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 35#2181435

vaya never said a word so where does this comments from Vaya actually come from? I can't believe people are believing the lies coming from this person who is now voting me when he claims to have received the same results on me as he did a dead man and hasn't answered my questions.

[farside22]

ITT Vaya > Farside.


I could easier see Vaya/Fate, Vaya/Iam than i could Farside/Iam or Farside/Fate. However, Vaya/Farside trumps that, I just think Vaya is the better lynch, partly because I cannot read Farside. Like, cannot

read

her at all.

However, if it comes down to it, I'm cool with either.

And also Fars, I see the pairing between Iam and Fate, and I assure you, Fate's life is forfeit if Vaya flips town. Possibly followed by Iam, possibly not.

Why are you cool with my lynch? I think I see vaya/Iam or Fate/Iam. I would say Fate's sudden turn to have me lynched over Vaya without a valid reason is telling.
Do you think Fate is backtracking with his latest vote? I'm getting that impression.
What about Fate saying he got the same results on me as seven but voting me says to you about his so called claim?

[farside22]

Ok so got my clarification, and have never had this role before, but it seems that I am actually a Joat. The save a life/take a life was more or less for flavor of my role because The Almighty that I pray to decides on giving or taking life. Anyways the exact powers I have as JoaT, I don't know. When I pray for someone the prayer will effect someone in a good or bad way, or it might help the me or town in a good or bad way.

@Farside
Did anything happen to you at all Night 1 when I prayed for you? I assume that Night 2 when prayed for you again that nothing happened since you were hiding but I am not 100% on that.

Nothing happened on either night to me. At least I receive no message from the mod.
Do you know if your a JOAT? you stated you prayed and most JOAT are given choices without specifics sometimes and at other times told what their abilitys for each choice is.
Your not saying you had a choice from my read is this correct?

[farside22]

My head hurts trying to figure out that issue.
Wolf: Who do you think is scum right now?

[farside22]

I'm reading the 3 players in isolation. Starting with Fate first:

Fate:

Also, my thoughts on Vaya? I was thoroughly disappointed when he wasn't vigged last night. Maybe he's a Bulletproof or something. Other than that, looking forward to his eventual replacement along with Pwnman's. (oh wait this is BaM...damn)

Shows disappointment that a player didn't die (not pro-town as usually scum are happy to have a player die). Also seems to think there was a vig in this game. Was this coaching towards vaya?

Completely flips after bv310 soft defends esu here

Let's see. Now that bv310 is softdefending ESU, I am more likely to see Jeromus not directly linking himself with any of his buddies so obviously (scum rarely do, but Jeromus was hinting "newbie" with that self-hammer), and the "egg on a town on town fight" case.

This is after saying jero was trying to get esu's attention throughout the day.

This still doesn't explain things well at all

I didn't doubt my sanity until I got a guilty on the dead guy, honestly. I wanted to lynch esu, not waste an investgation on her. Your flip would help narrow down my sanity if you were scum, and I got an innocent on you!or a guilty, which would be the difference between insane and paranoid.

Again if you have a guilty on a player day 1 that flipped town wouldn't you think you were insane?

We didn't lynch Esu D2, because bv130 basically said she was town. And, as Iam said, the only way to confirm my sanity (as useful) would be to investigate scum and get an innocent. Then again, I could be random, and get an innocent on an innocent. HENCE why I choose someone who I thought might die.

Look at the contradiction. He wanted to investigate me to check his sanity instead of checking someone he believed was town after the fact. What's the difference between checking me and checking a townie to see if you are indeed insane?

Yeah Vaya. Now would be a great time to come up with that case you had on farside d2, but were too lazy to put forth. Seeing as you're now at L-1, mind letting is know exactly why you wanted to shoot farside in the first place?

Just like your case on me? Talk about more coaching.
God I swear I see fate with either Vaya or Iam rereading him in isolation. Either coaching Vaya or soft bussing on Iam then backing off.

Fate: I will not be ignored. Why would anyone think that all scum have a PR? Do you know for sure they do? Why before the claim would you believe this?

[farside22]

Vaya:

Reasons I find vaya scum:
1) Constant attack on me with no reason.
2) Her OMGUS reaction to why I find her scum.
3) voting for pwnman for no reason
4) voting for jero for no reason
5) day 2 vote OMGUS for me for no reason again. Not wanting to explain.
6) votes for Starbuck for no reason
Finally the anyone but me attitude that he has had most of the game.
He comes up with a Fate/farside scum team with no reason behind it. Then claims he see's distancing without more then impression (seems like a constant theme all game)
Get's critcal of azhr for his pairs picks saying the following:

Actually, let me rephrase that. Its not that you can't make connections, its just that "connections" alone aren't a good reason to lynch someone, especially if you don't the alignment of either person. It's very easy for you to simply be wrong and seeing something that really isn't there, such as what you're doing with this me+farside thing.

Talk about hypocritcal considering he was doing the same thing not too many post ago.

[farside22]

The whole following of Fate from Iam really looks more like hey this looks good let me use this too when voting for jero
iam stating the following after his analysis

So, in summary, I'd definitely prefer esurio to Vaya, which seems to be the two directions we're considering taking, but it really ought to be Starbuck. I could also see bv310 or wolfram as being worthwile pursuits.

However he is saying that out of the 4 possiblities he found 3 town. Which is a lie.

More protection over vaya

But there's no time left to deal with that today, which I really should have thought about earlier instead of spending those hours playing Final Fantasy XIII. But hey, as long as Vaya doesn't get lynched, I'm not going to feel too bad about it. That game owns.

One day later and one post later he attacks Vaya on weak reasoning here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 26#2172826
Iam's claim here
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 63#2174963
Does anyone really buy buffy being vanilla? The lack of character info that others have in comparision doesn't even match up.

I still see weak bussing here
But that, I can see coming from a town Fate not thinking things through enough. The lying, not so much. I'm not ready to hammer right now, but unless Fate can give a much better reason for his lying than "trying to draw a NK", I'm having a hard time seeing how he can not be the lynch today.

And more protection of vaya here:

I'm buying Fate's explanation for lying a lot more than I'm buying her explanation for going after Vaya when she tracked him going nowhere. His reasons are all very wrong, but I believe that he believes them.

Now could all the Vaya voters tell me how it makes sense to vote for him over farside?

Oh look the weak attempt to try and make a vote on vaya here

I could live with a Vaya lynch today, because obviously at least one of those town reads is wrong, and he makes the most sense as farside's partner, but I'd really rather lynch her.

Iam has been defending Vaya while underneath saying I would vote for vaya. Wow really this is someone he supposedly had a town view on?

Strangly after reading everyone I can see Vaya/Fate, Vaya/Iam or Iam/Fate

More Vaya then I realized linking both of these two.
There sudden push on me leaves me wondering who.

[farside22]

I realized I didn't put the name there. But those quotes were from Iam.

[farside22]

I believe what I'm reading from everyone is "I wouldn't mind a Vay lynch".

So, uh, why aren't you guys voting Vaya? I think 5 or 6 people have either voted or stated they find Vaya scummy. So, uh, why are there only two people currently voting Vaya?

*looks confused*

Sorry I had to run out the door as I was posting everything.
I usually leave work at 5pm and I had to rush my read. I wanted to make sure I had my thoughts in order and not rush my vote.

@Fate: I'm pushing that you find me scum when you state you investigated me and found the same alignment with me as seven. You have vaya and myself as a scum team together and that doesn't match up to someone who claims to have the same results.

So I saw links with both Vaya and Iam in the end. I still think Iam's vote bothers me more. If he believe's Fate why the vote on me? Why does he push for Vaya as town but willing to vote her off. This doesn't strike me as a strong town read or possible scum bussing.

unvote:
vote: Vaya

I have been pushing for vaya since day 1. I find all of her play since day 1 the scummiest of the 3. I have my eye on Iam.

fos: Iam

[farside22]

So wolf any reason you lied about your vote ability?

[farside22]

Still keeping my vote on Farside because she continues to push the idea that I'm insane as a defense when before she didn't believe me at all. I'll definitely be back before the deadline later to see where things are at.

Do you find my question to Iam invalid? Do you think a so called cop that has results on someone they claimed (who flipped town) would push a case on someone they received the same results on?
Why?
And the only person I questioned about your so called claim was Iam asking him why he believes you but still finds me scum. Where is the flaw in this logic?
I love how Fate has twisted what I said and not responded to my questions or comments at all on my case.
Seriously why is this guy not being called out by anyone else?

[farside22]

wolf: Do you think vaya is scum? What is your view on Iam and Fate?

[farside22]

And Fate dodges more questions from me once again.
No hints to the mafia what ability I'm using tonight.

[farside22]

If fate truely was insane why is he voting for me and not for Iam?

He claims he checked seven, myself and now ahz. If he really was insane that means one of iam/esu is scum.
however with bv310 claim, flip and the points of soft claiming that should be obviously be Iam as scum then.

Now he's stating the following:

Now, let's recap on why Farside+Azhrei are scum. The wagon was building on Farside over Vaya, Azhrei champions the Vaya lynch. He sets up my mislynch for "when Vaya flips town."

This is after he pushed a Vaya/farside scum team because of my following of Vaya.

Fate you still never answered my question about knowing the scum team would all have power roles.

I also love that he is putting myself and Azh as scum team together with a so called investigation that gave him the same results. Unless he absolutely, positively knows he's paranoid this is just crap logic.

Finally guess who I followed that went to Wolf.

vote: Fate

[farside22]

Please your lying scum thru and thru Fate. You pushed more for Vaya with connecting me and tried to convince others I was scum worried I would track you or your scum buddy. Now your trying to tie me to Azh.
You can't stick with a story that helps you this time.
Why did you so call check Azh? Oh right you didn't say why it's probably more bs reason like yesterday.

[farside22]

Try and answer these if you actually can Fate:

That said, Iam is sliding under the radar here.
Vote: Iam Possibly with Azhrei.

First your vote here tying these 2 together. However you had the same so called results and voted for me once again.
What happened to this view?


Your blantant lying here yesterday:

Farside actually looks worse than Vaya right now. The past couple pages Farside has done nothing but defend, she hasn't scumhunted in a single post since she was riding me hard for my night choices.

Vaya at least is coming up with scumpairs and such. This doesn't really explain how Farside didn't die last night (scum hider doesn't sound right, maybe vampires don't die from bullets?), which is why I'd like clarification from Wolf about whether he's a doctor or not.

I pointed out that Vaya said nothing inbtween your one post and here and this is your BS reason on on her view.

avoiding questions here:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 74#2183874

Here Fate goes on to the believe that both scum have PR

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 86#2179686

How would he know this?

[farside22]

You still refuse to answer: After a Role cop flip and a Watcher/Doc claim, why do you think Scum DON'T have another PR?

I don't know but I sure don't assume they do. however you seemed to state it as a fact

I went paranoid with the Vaya/Farside pairing, I'll admit. Like I said, we should've lynched Farside yesterday on the basis that she was a godfather and that would explain why she didn't die, as opposed to lynching Vaya and if she flipped scum she

must

have been with Farside.

And here we have the I think farside is GF based on no reason but my role claim even though ahr claimed to be immune to kills. I noticed you missed. I hid. Did you look up what a hider does? I think you know a hider when targeted by a NK would not be killed. If you were actually a cop you could have confirmed with the mod if you could target me but apparently your just lying and pretending to cover anything would be backtracking.

I haven't avoided the question on why I push a case on someone I had the same results on town as. I've also countered with the fact that you want to use my results to defend yourself too much when you think I've scum.

Please show how I defended myself with your results.
1) I asked Iam why he voted for me if he believed your claim.
2) I asked you if you got the same results why were you voting me. So far all you keep ranting is GF with no reason to believe there is a GF. I know it's standard but then either mafia has no power role that did nothing or they have 2. Which is it Fate?

Answer this question if you can: If I was so likely scum, why did you waste your night action on me? Besides the implausibility of me being the "Goon" (aka killer) last night and claiming cop, why on earth wouldn't you want to confirm one of the vanillas? You could've tracked either Azhrei or Iam. You would've gone one of two resutls: Went nowhere (confirmed vanilla), or went to Wolf.

So why track me?

Why the hell would I not track one of the two people I suspected yesterday? Good for me I was right.

[farside22]

First of I already said yesterday I could see you with scum with Iam. I even showed connections and light bussing that both of you conveniently back off of.


Second my tracking was just proven by a dead townie that flipped one shot vig. Vaya didn't go anywhere night one and I tracked you to wolf. So your strawman doesn't really work here.

I know what a hider does. You hid behind ESU, right? Then why didn't ESU die when Vaya shot you!? Because you didn't hide. You are the a Kill-immune GF.

Now this is bull. A person doesn't change shots when a player hides. The shot just doesn't hit and you know that. Nice misinterpret of a role.
But just to humilate you more on your false hood.

Mod: Would a vig who targeted me and my hiding behind Esu results in the vig killing Esu?

I still stand by the fact that if you were town you would have tracked someone else. Did you have reason to believe that it was Iam+Azhrei (the only two vanillas) and thus tracked me to "make sure?" BS. You would have gained far more information from tracking a vanilla than me from your "town" POV.

My view is I saw 2 people I said I found scum yesterday and I want hope to prove I'm correct. Tracking Fate to the person dead means he's lying scum. Your not explaining why tracking a townie does anything. Didn't you just give me shit for tracking Vaya and still voting on her day 2 for being scummy on day 1 even with her going now where it didn't clear her and why it should you still haven't explained

Oh wait the whole scum don't buddy theory is there. Gee I wonder where that theory is false.

[farside22]

@Esu: I would like an explanation on why you believe I'm scum with Azh.

[farside22]

Second my tracking was just proven by a dead townie that flipped one shot vig. Vaya didn't go anywhere night one and I tracked you to wolf. So your strawman doesn't really work here.

Uh, no, it proves you have NK immunity and nothing more. You claimed after Vaya had claimed and made it fairly obvious to anyone with knowledge that she was telling the truth that she wouldn't have gone anywhere. Easy fakeclaim is easy.

I was suspicious of Vaya day 1. My tracking her was due to my suspicion I have no more I can say in regards to that.

@Esu: I would like an explanation on why you believe I'm scum with Azh.

Fate's play, barring his method of attack on me which I'm still not crazy about, has been far more townie than yours. On your own you are the scummiest person left alive, and barring some extraordinary good play I doubt you and fate are scum together. That leaves iam and Azh, and of the two, while Azh has certainly kept his nose clean, I feel iam has done more scumhunting.

Most of his actions were day 1 attacking you, day 2 attacking you having BS reasoning on day 3 for who he investigated. Supposedly 1 dead person day 1 and a person that Vaya stated he was shooting which makes no sense.
He back tracked his reasoning on finding you scum saying the exact opposite of what he had been saying for two days after bv's soft claim.
These above all were my main reasons on seeing him scum day 3.

[farside22]

Mod: Can we get a prod on Iam and Azh yet, or is it too early for that still?

Also, as far as I'm concerned, a RBer is confirmed because remember, I should have gotten powers from Bv310 the night he died.

I never targeted bv310. I don't have that ability and I don't know who does someone obviously lied.

[farside22]

@Iam: Come on, help us.

Sure, just had a busy weekend.

Vote: farside

Don't think you really need any more help than that, but let me know if I'm wrong.

Oh look here is Fate's scum partner not giving any reasoning and placing me at L-2 with no reason. Awesome.

Please someone point something pro-town in this post

[farside22]

Mod: Can we get a prod on Iam and Azh yet, or is it too early for that still?

Also, as far as I'm concerned, a RBer is confirmed because remember, I should have gotten powers from Bv310 the night he died.

Wow I missed that, EXCELLENT point.

What say you Farside? (I have an idea what she will say, of course).

Your a known liar so your probably the scum role blocker. You did say you were sane and then insane when questioned further. How many more lies will you under take.

By the way Fate I have proven scum in my view by tracking you to Wolf who is dead. I still haven't heard a cop who wants to "investigate" someone who was killed night 1 and then choose to target someone who was planned for death by a claimed vig. How has your role been proven?

Your strawman about your investigations isn't any more proven then your comments about who I tracked.

Why are people believing a proven liar?

[farside22]

Please someone point something pro-town in this post

I voted for scum.

and your reason's for your vote and why are what exactly? I see you keep avoiding answering questions for the past 2 days. If you need to know what you missed here:

I'm calling Fate/Iam scum team. He and Iam are trying really hard at not bussing each other.

I'm buying Fate's explanation for lying a lot more than I'm buying her explanation for going after Vaya when she tracked him going nowhere. His reasons are all very wrong, but I believe that he believes them.

Notice he doesn't say why he doesn't buy it and he's probably not hammering knowing it would look scummy.

in regards to your "town reads comment"

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 55#2181155


What Fate has avoided to comment about:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 14#2181814

His strawman about my fallowing of Vaya but his claim here which is completely hypocritical

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 64#2182564

My Iam case that no one responded too.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 10#2182610


Who here really thinks that tracking someone you believe is scum is not the smart thing to do so you have proof you are right in your belief?

Oh and lets not forget the so called cop got the same results on me as seven. So your logic in voting on me is what Iam?

[farside22]

Speaking of which,

Oh and lets not forget the so called cop got the same results on me as seven. So your logic in voting on me is what Iam?

HAHAHHAHA. I'm a proven liar from your POV, why the hell are you still saying this? From anyone else' POV, if they believe I'm town, I just said I got a guilty on Azhrei instead. THEREFORE since Iam and Esu know they aren't scum with each other, I'm paranoid. Are you begging Iam not to vote you now?

I know your note reading the game here because your scum but Iam stated he believed you and not me and I'm calling out why he believes you and believes what you say but voted me yesterday WITH YOUR SO CALL CLAIM.
Read if you can the F@#ing question and stop misrep'ing and let your scum partner answer if he has the balls to.

[farside22]

Farside, you still haven't said one word about Azhrei since D1. Why can he/can he not be, my scumbuddy? VERY interested in hearing that.

And yet another lie from Fate. I had stated the following on day 1.

long post in coming:

Azhrei

- post 30 why do you give vaya the benefit of doubt seeing her past games and many people agreeing with her lurkish ways?
Not sure why it's odd to call out players you have meta on. post 32 idk why but if my vote says she is a known lurker why would this question be asked? Looks like a fluff question.
Are you always on the look out for lurkers? What is your belief as far as town or scum when it comes to lurkers.
post 80 - RVS is random but just because my vote is based on past experience doesn't mean it's not a random. I always look at the list see who I played with and vote for one of them.
It wasn't till recently that I started being on the look out and voting on players with less then stellar plays but it's still a random vote. Just because I don't roll a die or just pick a person off the list doesnt' make my vote any less random.

I find pwnman somewhat scummy in his irrational fear of bandwagoning, but that game does provide more than enough reason for it (what a fail town..), so it seems somewhat of a null-tell, perhaps slightly scummy.

This post is wishy washy.
post 123: I don't like people who talk about who they will vote but don't vote. Talking about voting doesn't do anything and I see no reason not to vote if your suspicious of someone.

What have you said about Iam and your read on him fate?

[farside22]

And here we have day 2 and my views on Ahz

I have a start on this right now. I will see if I can finish before I leave today.
Let me get the start of my reads in isolation first

Azhrei - I have a mixed view. He is asking lots questions. I see he cuts to the quick with his views. He had the same views I did orginally with jero's post. There are times where I also felt he was conservative and more just "testing" or commenting but not voting: here This is just on the wings of waiting to see so he doesn't commit himself
here more waiting. Maybe it's just because I'm more agressive it just feels off. His view on fate orginally comes off as more personal then finding Fate scummy.
Reading this this doesn't give much insight either.
I can't say looking at his pwnman vote saying he doesn't see anything else scummy really award winning.
I don't know about jero. It's why I question Azhrei more on why he didn't see what jero did earlier. It feels like an ah ha moment but with no hints from earlier on this suspicion.....idk. I know I have had moments where i found something I didnt' see before but the noncommital who is scum post leaves me a little meh on Az.
Right now I have a moderate read on Azhrei with a IGMYOU> I would like to here more from him as well as who he suspects as scum and why.

So I ask again what view if any did Fate share on what he thought of Iam?

I think he had one where Iam was just seeming town but could play scum off well. mmmmm so in depth thinking.

[farside22]

I was trying hard not to laugh at people putting Azh and myself together as a scum pair.
This game was so stressful I knew I was immune to kills by the way but usually a GF is immune to kills so I thought of saying I was a hider as it seemed like a protown role.
With Iam disappearing for long periods I was worried when he voted me that esu was going to vote.

Oh and I was Darla for those that missed it not Angel.

[farside22]

bv310 did he send in an action N1? What happened with the doll imprint?

[farside22]

Props to farside for making a claim so good I wish I had made it myself. :p

Also gotta give it up for Fate, who tried his best to the last minute. And I found the characterizations of me humerous, at least

Will provide night actions and role pm's later, as well as personal regrets -.-

Got to say I love the idea of a tracker/hider but I could see it being very broken.

[farside22]

Wolf I wanted to kill you N1 and I wanted pwnman to be dead first. I was upset with the mod for not standing by his own rule.
Tony will tell you all the bitching I did on this. Looking at all the PR's I felt the mafia was severly handicapped as far as PR and having the traitor lynched day 1 we had to hope to get a beat on some people.

Thanks to Fate for trying to tie me to Vaya and Ahz that helped loads.
Thanks to Tony for putting up with my complaints.
All and all I lost sleep and tried harder then ever as scum in this game.

[farside22]

Okay, so I know I played this really badly - But was a great game to watch -You shit me that WHOLE game, Fate And well played by my scumbuddies, this was my first game as scum, and so I didn't go too well I liked the bit where you turned on one another...Yeah, that amused me.

It amused me as well. Poor fate will he ever trust Iam or myself again in another game?

[farside22]

The only reason I thought you were scum was your claim Farside, so yeah I'll still trust you.

But Iam.... IAM!!

*shakes fist*

you didn't like my claim because you were the cop.
I still believe targeting someone who is town when you are a tracker is a bad idea. It is still WIFOM if a player takes no action.

[farside22]

More post game rage:

Holy hell Vaya you really need to stop acting scummy. You were RIGHT about Farside, but you did nothing to convince town of it. You never did post that case on her...

And because of that, Azhrei convinced town of lynching YOU over Farside.

If we had lynched Farside that day, I think we could have broken this game open.

That is all.

No one ever had a case on me. It drove me nuts that all I got was you are so scummy because I said so.
Oh and I told you to let Iam answer that question about why he believed you Fate.

[farside22]

Ah, good game scum. Farside, you're a genius!

Also, why was I NK'ed?

You were in this game?

For those interested here is the mafia chat http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/yn5K5jeHpbGf

I have to say Iam was one of my favorite scum partners to have. He let me bounce thoughts off of him and helped with keep just the right amount of suspicion without bussing till necessary.

By the way killing wolf who was confirmed town was a better idea then killing Fate. Fate was still highly questionable player and Azh already stated he would lynch Fate if Vaya flipped town.