Mini 942: Gonzo Mafia - Game Over!

[ortolan]

/confirm

Vote: ekiM

Hullo everyone

[ortolan]

^^ certainly looks like it to me

I actually like most of the early game posts, I actually see little of scumminess from either Vi or Zach. Also, hohum's frustration with Vi also reads as genuine (although I do think he can fake this as scum, I've seen him become flustered before as scum talking to townie before so maybe this point doesn't carry as much weight as I'd thought).

Reckoner's reason for voting Zach is massively weak. Reck claims he effectively doesn't vote hop around as much when he's town; and then when Zach says he in fact does, and links to games to prove such, reckoner dismisses it as "WIFOM". You can't dispute an argument as WIFOM when it counters the whole foundation of your argument.

Vote: Reckoner

I'm also either neutral on or dislike all of Locke Lamora's posts thus far.

[ortolan]

I don't like ortolan's agreeing with hohum about your "post restriction", as much as I don't like hohum asking about it.

I disagree with your apparent policy attitude to post restrictions. I don't see any particular reason why bringing up the topic of post restrictions when they are apparently present is scummy. In many games scum themselves are given post restrictions. Conversely, faking post restrictions for whatever reason if one is a townie can also lead to getting mislynched down the track. I think it's generally inevitable that they get discussed and don't see any obvious benefit in leaving them as the "elephant in the room". Also, how would you have preferred I acted in response to hohum's post if you apparently found my reaction scummy?

I didn't like Reck's throwaway "either lynch me or look elsewhere" line. From the impression I get of his meta (which comes from at least one ongoing game) I *believe* he gets more frustrated as town when his lynch is looking likely (as I do myself). So this "hey guys I'm happy to die if it will serve the town good" looks a bit too casual and contrived for me. The only thing that gives me pause is that the read on Vi looks genuine (I suspect this wouldn't be too hard for reck to fake as scum though).

Unvote

Vote: xReckonerx

I'm gonna

unvote

my RV, and

FoS: Zack

. His vote seems to be going every which way, but I don't think it warrants a vote yet.

Any other suspects kyle?

[ortolan]

kyle got mislynched on day one in roccisi winter as town doc (along with a whole bunch of other policy lynches), mainly for lurking and being noncommittal if memory serves. I don't see the difference to how he is playing here. flinter's case is basically "kyle usually plays like a sheep and because he's not doing so here he is likely to be scum". Sure it's uncharitable but I also can't shake the feeling flinter is just coming up with a convoluted excuse to vote someone who she thinks is an easy target (and conveniently avoid more populous/viable bandwagons).

Unvote
Vote: flinter

[ortolan]

Percy: I voted xReckonerx again because my first vote wasn't counted, apparently because I didn't unvote first. I will properly catch up with the game tomorrow.

[ortolan]

Vi: I'm not lurking deliberately, I've simply been rather busy. I just replaced out of one game cause I couldn't keep up and in the other I have also been attacked purely for being inactive. But I appreciate that that makes me harder to read so...yer. Do you normally move your vote around so much on day one by the way? I can't recall you having done it to such a great extent in the past.

Also, why did you abandon the xRx wagon in favour of the flinter wagon?

I didn't see this question first time round. I wasn't really conscious of the fact I was voting xReckonerx when I made that post, it was just I guess that I strongly reacted against what I saw as flinter's bullying/pushing a mislynch on kyle which I know scum is likely to do. I will say more recently that I explicitly feel reckoner is not as likely to be scum as I first thought. It's not just his further commentary on Vi which still reads as genuine but the way he clumsily referenced an ongoing game and earlier asked a totally irreverent/irrelevant question which seems more like his town self from the one game my meta of him is based on (I don't know of any scum games).

Something I don't like is hohum's preaching to/criticising Percy in ISO 14. I've seen hohum berate before for policy reasons when he was scum (in that open game we played in with all the town PGOs) and suspect one of his scum tactics might be to deliberately feign annoyance/outrage at policy antitown actions. This would also make sense as an alternate analysis of hohum's "you're more concerned about reputation" comment to Vi earlier in the game.

[ortolan]

Ort:

Before I even begin to get into your last post please comment on this post.

I already did comment on it (specifically), to say it was scummy.

Are you going to make an effort to be more active in this game now?

Of course, otherwise I would ask to be replaced. I don't need you to deal with that for me

You've dropped other games so that should give you a bit more time to focus on this one.

Yes that was the idea.

If you're not going to rectify your lurking problem and you're going to continue to randomly appear in thread to do nothing but snipe at people then I'm not going to take you seriously at all.

I'm usually equally effective at catching scum regardless of how much attention I'm paying to a game but I understand the whole reciprocity of posting frequency thing. That said I do think you are legitimately scummy.

[ortolan]

That said I do think you are legitimately scummy.

Then put your vote where your mouth is, or are you afraid that it isn't going to bode well for you when I flip?

Yes I am afraid that the flip which will ensue when I place the L-6th vote on you will bode badly for me. This scummy comment did tip you over the threshold for me though so I'll oblige.

Unvote

Vote: hohum

[ortolan]

what's with the ultimatums from people who are nowhere close to being lynched?

hohum I would like to know the totality of reasons for your vote on Percy at this point in time.

[ortolan]

I will vote him too if he neither stops spitting the dummy nor replaces out

[ortolan]

He has a point about Ort's selective reading

What point does he have about my "selective reading" exactly? Why didn't you offer an opinion on Percy?

[ortolan]

It's just so hard to choose between hohum and Jack

Can someone summarise the things kyle has done which are actively scummy please?

[ortolan]

I just isoed kyle, the only scummy thing I noticed is

You make some decent points on me,

Which is kind of a weird thing to say. I would like to see kyle's response to Vi's 284 though.

[ortolan]

LOL

[ortolan]

I just isoed kyle, the only scummy thing I noticed is

You make some decent points on me,

Which is kind of a weird thing to say. I would like to see kyle's response to Vi's 284 though.

I would like to see your response to Vi's 284 and 287.

didn't want to prejudice his responses, br0. Of course now you're going to need to meta his replacement anyway.

Unvote
Vote: kyle

for what looks like tactical replacement.

[ortolan]

I just isoed kyle, the only scummy thing I noticed is

You make some decent points on me,

Which is kind of a weird thing to say. I would like to see kyle's response to Vi's 284 though.

I would like to see your response to Vi's 284 and 287.

didn't want to prejudice his responses, br0. Of course now you're going to need to meta his replacement anyway.

Unvote
Vote: kyle

for what looks like tactical replacement.

fos:ortolan

kyle replaced out of another game with the same message...don't like your reaction.

sorry, I was not aware of this. Is he still in any other games as of now? What do you find scummy about my reaction?

Unvote
Vote: Jack

My preference is to lynch either Jack or hohum today. I could vote for either, and could see them both being scum.

[ortolan]

So why doesn't this apply to your kyle vote? Or your Jack vote?

Not quite sure what you're asking here. I voted kyle because I believed him at the time to be seeking tactical replacement (which I must admit I myself tried to do in a recent ongoing game as scum. I wasn't able to replace out and got lynched). I was too lazy to exhaustively check if he'd replaced out of every game he's in, which I'm still wondering about (although now I've found out there's a tool that lets you look up user's posts even while post search is ostensibly disabled). I am still waiting for Vi (or someone else) to offer some meta on kyle, because I know Jahudo is frustratingly difficult to read if he is scum.

As for Jack, he's mainly been his wacky self but posts like "ortolan is tweaking my gut" often have a habit of tweaking

my

gut (when a "gut" read is stated without any explanation or contextualisation and I'm left very curious as to how it's come about). There's also the unexplained FoS on me (what came after it in his post is not what I consider an "explanation").

Of flinter I will say I definitely get the vibe that she very well *could* be scum- her posts suggest she is smart enough to make it difficult to immediately discern between her being scum and not being scum.

[ortolan]

I can't find the post search utility now but feel free to report back to me Jack by good man

[ortolan]

What is it with people saying I'm

still

lurking? That's BS. I'm in a different timezone to all of you. When you're posting simultaneous walls 'o' text I am asleep.

ortolan has been playing what seems to be a very passive game so far, and he's found easy reasons to be on easy wagons all the way down

Easy wagons would be DDD or possibly XreckonerX, whose wagon I have moved off.

Other than that, none of the arguments have really swayed me except for the usual impulse to flame xRx. But I do want to try something etc.

You do know you have a very very bad habit of trying to get me lynched when you're scum, a tell which has been accurate in 2/2 games (100% of the time). Why is this tell not valid in this game? On day one no less? So close to deadline having not commented on me all day? You must be trying hard to make me drop a scumread on you.

Tearing my case apart on Jack/flinter and hohum is the easy thing to do, the reasoning isn't ostensibly that good. That's not to say I don't think there's a good chance of hitting scum there, especially in comparison to lynching a lurker (which is the mother of all easy lynches).

[ortolan]

Also we badly need to lynch someone today. Not sure even if everyone will get to post before the deadline but it's tomorrow my time.

Mod: is it possible to have a deadline extension due to the replacements so close to deadline (Jahudo and Jack)?

No. The gods have judged you have had ample time. ~The mod

If it is not possible I will vote for anyone to secure a lynch. No lynching is completely horrible on day one. All you US peeps etc. need to make sure we get within lynch range of at least one person by tomorrow.

[ortolan]

Vi: I'm not sure how many unique players you voted but I counted seven vote movements total on day one. This leaves an effectively meaningless paper trail for your votes on subsequent days and I kind of have a hard time buying the idea that you always move your vote so erratically.

[ortolan]

If it wasn't clear Vi is another potential wagon I would show interest in but I assumed no-one else would vote him.

[ortolan]

hey I know you tried to push my lynch in election mafia when you were scum, and also in Phate's game...Deathnote, when you were scum. The fact you apparently forgot we were in both these games makes me even more confident you didn't actually realise it's a tell you've already dropped twice. Although I'm kind of surprised you're being so brazen about it yet again.

[ortolan]

oh and one more thing which just occurred to me before I go to bed- I also recall you liking to line up lynches in both those games, which works with the "I'll realistically vote hohum today then ortolan tomorrow" comment. It also makes sense with your really dodgily timed vote on me so close to deadline, so you can avoid taking responsibility for membership of a viable wagon.

[ortolan]

ortolan wasn't in Death Note Mafia.

Yes I was, I replaced out when you bitched about being in the same game as me (mainly because I called you out as scum, and despite the fact you actually replaced into a game which I was already in for some reason).

[ortolan]

and DDD is another poor fool who is blinded by Vi's obvious facade

[ortolan]

can someone explain to me why it's so hard to get Vi lynched when he's obv-scum? Do you think maybe he's capable of faking his "protown" play considering he never gets lynched and I'm apparently the only one who can consistently read him (although he usually calls the mod in to try to get me out of the game when that's the case anyway)

[ortolan]

it was probably a mistake to think I could play game with Vi, especially considering how intensely I've realised I still dislike him, particularly for the tactics he's pulled in other games which I think are tantamount to cheating (e.g. insulting me in Election Mafia then asking for mod intervention when I respond aggressively), and the shit he pulled yet again in Deathnote which I also consider borderline cheating (I say he's scum he responds with "I really don't want to have to play another game with you).

So

Mod, please replace me

[ortolan]

well done to Sotty, I was reading along the last few days and in quicktopic and I feel she played extremely well

I feel it's a bit unfair to say I imploded VP, you should try playing 4 games with Vi in all of which he tunnels on me horribly. He just happened to be right this time, and I was probably doing my faction a favour by replacing out when I'm just going to get autolynched because some player has a vendetta against me and tries to get me lynched every game.