Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)

[farside22]

Why is SC scum? Why have you been following? Who are you top scum suspects?

[farside22]

Ok, should I just hammer him? We've given the guy a chance. Lots of chances actually. He's either scum or... he's town who hasn't tried at all this game and won't even try to save himself now.

(Also farside your new avatar is totally cute!)

*huggles son* That was from about 3 weeks ago and he was just eating some choco cake. He put his face down onto the table to slurp up the ice cream that was with the cake.

Sorry goo mom story there but it makes me giggle.

I don't see Pug as town. He hasn't tried, or attempted any sort of defense. I wanted to hear from SC, pul and CTD a bit more before a hammer.

[farside22]

Since when are you apologetic for suspecting me?

Every time I accuse you, you make it seem like I have some personal issue or vendatte which isn't the case. I imagine me accusing you almost every day without voting you is weird. My list has you in second and Pul moved up from his spot to CTD.
I can't see CTD scum as much with his most recent post.

I still like the CTD lynch. If I was anyone but me and CTD was scum, I think I'd be close to confirmed town, but I just had that long game with farside where I bussed for days and days so she'd get all paranoid and wouldn't let herself think I'm town. But it's totally true anyway.

I don't know why you like CTD as scum. So far you haven't been real aggressive or forthcoming on reason's here.
Second paranoid is absolutely part of the reason I find scum. I see something and maybe it's paranoid but it's mostly right.

[farside22]

Reading Pug's last post is a player that won't be offering or doing anything to change the views people have.
It's a defeatist approach. My vote is pretty much standing there.

@SC: Yes it was from earlier in the game.

[farside22]

Can someone go read Revenge of the Crimson King and meta Socrates compared to his playstyle here? I'd do it myself but I'm using a friends phone

I will see if I have time today. I don't want to let Pug slide by. KOC did and he flipped scum and Pug is almost to the same extent as KOC at this point. Once people start feeling more town towards players the scum have greater reason to give up.

[farside22]

SC do you have a list of scum to town that I missed?
Same question to pul

[farside22]

I don't remember Pul saying anything about CTD.....

[farside22]

Well with no scum kills looking for people you believe town isn't a bad thing but saying your suspicious of someone without a reason just comes across as bleh

[farside22]

CTD: My case on Pug isn't just his attitude today it's based on his overall play and constant following. Where he votes, why he votes it is not well thought out and follows more often then seems to be anything of his own thoughts.
Ontop of that I asked him repeately to give a scum list and expand on who is scum and he can't/won't do this.
I believe he is scum and I'm not going to be swayed away.

[farside22]

*bitch meter on*
Listen I am not going to sit here and claim I'm perfect in any way, shape or form but you stated that their one only one reason to vote for Pug and I just stated other reason's I had.
They are not going to go away and the last time I chased a fucking shawdow this game that I thought was scum they flipped town and the last time I chased and figured SC as scum he blinded me with his brillant scum play by distanting like crazy his scum partner.
You know what the difference is with this game and the defeatist attitude........
The fact that when you have more people who start confirming each other as town and the scum have no kill to speak of leaves a dissatisfied taste and a desire to not be there and yes I speak from experience from another game.
So don't act like just becuase you feel you who has spent most of the game just posting every so often and making statments of I wanted to stop the ort wagon when he did absolutely fucking nothing to help himself in any way. Doesn't make you the person I really want to listen to.

*bitch meter off*

I see SC scum because of VMD. I see CTD scum because of VMD. I'm seriously looking at those going mmm is this the right thing and trying to push this wagon elsewhere while still saying they find Pug scum.

[farside22]

I'm pissed at myself for not arguing more strongly against the Ortolan lynch, and for the Pug lynch. I wanted to give due dilligence and reread him first along with everyone else but we all know how that turned out.

For someone who felt this way earlier to now wanting to lynch SC while believing Pug is scum doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.

I read sound logic just fine, but being told that

The behavoir of Pug and the general progression of today. For one, I don't find Pug's lack of drive to avert his own lynch particularly indicative of him being scum. It's been a consistent theme for him all game long, and I never really found him scummy for it

When you, yourself pointed out that Pug's votes looked suspect and your backpeddling to get SC lynch looks scummy.
The fact your blowing up at me calling you lurkerish is assign.

[farside22]

Why the fuck is Pug not lynched yet?

Ask Mr. Spitefire there.

[farside22]

CTD/Pug scum?

were to the point were the more confirmed town we have the bigger reason scum start to not bus?
I don't know but Pug is given up. He has soooooooooo much time to try and make a case and come in here to give his view his latest comment just feels more like stalling that KOC did.

[farside22]

I would appreciate it if you didn't misrepresent me (the same goes to farside, who does it even worse). I've never argued to lynch Pug because he didn't contribute much or played passively (which seems to be your number 1 reason to lynch him). I've argued to lynch Pug because of his involvement with the Ortolan and Buttonmen wagons.

Someone isn't even reading my post. Talk about hypocrisy.

[farside22]

Read all my reason's here that you just ignored on why I'm voting him

CTD: My case on Pug isn't just his attitude today it's based on his overall play and constant following. Where he votes, why he votes it is not well thought out and follows more often then seems to be anything of his own thoughts.
Ontop of that I asked him repeately to give a scum list and expand on who is scum and he can't/won't do this.

Then let me call your statement about the misrep and my reason's for voting him as hypocrisy once more.

[farside22]

There's a few other reasons, but I think that's as good as any.

I think we FEEL like we're so far into this game, but actually it's a 2/8 scum nightless setup at the moment. That means we have 5 lynches before lylo, provided noone has a kill. I think we've got 82 pages of discussion and it's time to start knocking people off. Ortolan has the benefit of being

a) More scummy than most.
b) Imprinted if scum.
c) The only reamining imprinted player that I didn't personally lead the charge for.
d) Someone with a scummy voting pattern.

I stand by this post. I think that most of it applies to pug, except the scummy voting pattern.

farside - what's with you looking for links in your scum suspects? Pug + CTD? Has that got anything more to it then pug is your top suspect and ctd is against that/kind of pissing you off?

(fgatsighahtaasaas)

CTD sudden switch now that the wagon has grow legs could be scum trying to create another mislynch.

[farside22]

CTD hasn't explain yet why Pug seems town all the sudden.

[farside22]

CTD hasn't explain yet why Pug seems town all the sudden.

He is saying that other people just seem scummier, not that any of his reasons for thinking pug is suspicious have gone away. (Which sort of seems like scummy doubletalk to me).

Bleh.

I think I'm going to hammer pug today.

I got the impression he didn't find Pug scummy any more and was even defending him a bit for his constant lurking and lack of comments.

[farside22]

I will say the most troubling thing I have in this game is that day 1 imprint.

Ohio (5) - Nevada (scum), Florida (town), Arizona (town), Ohio (scum), Colorado (messiah/CTD)

VMD was 2 votes from being imprinted? Would both scums not try to imprint one of their own and get a reason to be on there?

This is what keeps me believing (as much as he has done some very questionable things) reck is town. His unimprint just doesn't makes sense.

[farside22]

Vote: CTD

I still believe he was trying to detour the wagon on Pug.

Also I got the funniest imprint I could have gotten. I asked the mod if he did it on purpose but he didn't answer.

[farside22]

Okay my imprint is a vengeful kill.
I am farside22 from Open 92

I shit you not. Basically if lynch today I get to shot a player.

[farside22]

CTD: Who is scum? You had yesterday an idea that it was Pul and SC and tried to get people to listen to lynch one of them over Pug.

Also I'm finding it hard to believe that the imprint day 1 for VMD was missing 2 scums.

Reck imprinted VMD. Messiah (CTD) then imprinted right after Reck unimprinted.

I feel dirty saying this *mutters about a muzzle* I don't see scum Reck doing this. He was given the opportunity from VMD to imprint her as she questioned him about it.

VMD also note everyone had voted to imprint Pug at one point.

Let me also state that Messiah change of heart from not voting SB to voting SB is scummy as all hell.

Oh and the best scum tell of all time comes from CTD here

I'm pissed at myself for not arguing more strongly against the Ortolan lynch, and for the Pug lynch. I wanted to give due dilligence and reread him first along with everyone else but we all know how that turned out.

Might as well hear out what Elvis has to report. Vote is going on Pug barring any surprises.

I plan to make a case against SC in the imminent future. I also still plan on continuing my full reread, but it's not a top priority anymore. I'll work on it whenever I find the time, which might not be often.

The oh how could you and i should have said something BS, Bs, BS and I wanted to lynch Pug.

[farside22]

Imprint: farside, elvis, Reck

Honestly I have that little voice telling me I could be wrong about Reck, but if I'm wrong about CTD it might be informative having him with an imprint

[farside22]

4> how is that scummy?
5- quotes please
6 - quotes please

unvote

not looking just yet for a quick lynch. I know 1 was my biggest issue on SC.

[farside22]

Imprint: farside, elvis, Reck

Honestly I have that little voice telling me I could be wrong about Reck, but if I'm wrong about CTD it might be informative having him with an imprint

Seriously, please reconsider. There is no reason to jeopardize the game like this at all. There are two people getting imprints who we feel safe about. Just keep Reck nice and vanilla so you can lynch him in endgame, in the unlikely case that he is scum.

Valid point.

unimprint: Reck

Usually it's a small voice that wins but it makes sense not to shake the boat so to speak.
Of course EK is lying about everything she had but damn if I'm going to start being paranoid about her at this stage

[farside22]

There was also VMD pushing for SC's lynch day 2 and then flipping to vote for messiah day 3. There was a lot of pressure on SC day 2 and 3 and VMD could have but didn't flip back to lynching SC.

I keep wondering about that too. Its why for me the last scum is either SC or CTD.

[farside22]

Also I did say prior with my moment of sleeping and dreaming mafia dreams. I thought SC saying lynch me and if I flip scum lynch EK. Could be scum trying to get rid of a player that they know town.

They flip scum and the players lynch EK. It was really early in the game to try and do something like that as scum.

SC: Why did you ask why players were ready to lynch buttonman when you were voting for him already?

[farside22]

I'm pretty much of the opinion that if CTD isn't scum that SC is scum.

Someone want to relook at reck? I'm pretty much off today and wasn't planning on being on the computer much.

[farside22]

Actually that is a really good point in SC favor as far as hammering and who was close to be imprinted.

See this is why I believe EK town. Pro and con's all valid points.

I read the exchange from VMD to reck and it felt like VMD was trying to get Reck to vote for imprint her again.

[farside22]

See this is why I believe EK town. Pro and con's all valid points.

Epic facepalm. Tempted to pull up 1000000 examples of you telling me what a shit dude I am for doing this all game.

Oh hush I have been saying she was town at least since day 3.

[farside22]

elvis - I'm glad that you and farside agree on something, however. Convince each other you're town and we can get this party started.

But it's not the town read, it's stating a town read publicly that earlier in the game you were prepared to rip out my spleen through my mouth and eat it in front of me for doing.

It wasn't that bad. I just thought EK was scum. Then after thinking about a game we were in and after with the game you and I were I I thought (still sort see it) as you scum in this game.
Looking at our game together with MM and how you were you can't blame me for thinking the worst of you.

with that said.

vote: CTD

[farside22]

Sorry F&E
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12759

I had mason/monk in my head.

[farside22]

By the way, if you ever want to teach your son grammar, DO NOT USE THIS SENTENCE:

Then after thinking about a game we were in and after with the game you and I were I I thought (still sort see it) as you scum in this game.

(Is jealous of your cute son. I'm very white and my 3-year live-with girlfriend is very Chinese so my kid won't even look like me! ><)

I speak better then I write.
True story I'm slightly dyslexic and was never diagnosed with the issue. I have an issue with speaking some words and number issues.

As for my son I'm not bias he's adorable and a big flirt. If you notice his eyes are blue. Neither my husband nor myself have blue eyes but it's a recessive gene that runs in both our families. So you never know what traits, qualities are appearance your own child will have.

[farside22]

Hey - we can all agree that at least one of me and elvis isn't scum now! Woot.

I was thinking this too. It's funny to read the beginning of the game where everyone was suspicious of us pulling some massive scum gambit. Now we know it's not possible!

I always said I thought one of you was scum. But I thought in the beginning it was EK.

[farside22]

This is the way I think of it CTD. Unless EK is scum the town is going to win.
There is no way for SC to try and point to me or EK as scum without looking scummy himself. The only person who has justification in being concerned with being lynched is scum.
I would lynch Reck before I think EK that is how sure I am she is town.
If that loses me the game well kudo's to her for being able to doing an incredible job.

I'm more then willing to let you write up your views on pul, sc or even Reck but in the end I'm still going to lynch you.

[farside22]

My voting-record in this game is absolutely spot-less

Except you never really explained to my satisfaction why you moved off the Pug wagon to SC.

[farside22]

I'm just going to state why I find it more likely for scum to try and save their scum partner at that stage.
1) EK has pretty much confirmed my claim from day 3 and most find us to be town
2) scum need to have or hope for 2 scums to move forward to keep creating mislynches so they can attempt to make end game.
3) pushing for pug at the start of the day and then coming in and arguing with people why it's bad and saying our reasoning is poor for lynching Pug was poor.

This is all indications to me of scum hopping to save their scum partner.

[farside22]

CTD: Who is scum? You had yesterday an idea that it was Pul and SC and tried to get people to listen to lynch one of them over Pug.

Yes, I was paranoid about an SC/Pul scum-pair. I wanted to lynch SC, the person I felt most strongly about all game long (apart from KoC) and would have weighted Pug against Pul after the SC flipped.

Turns out my paranoia was unfounded. I maintain that lynching SC first would have led to the same result.

I disagree with this comment. You seemed to push with the idea that SC/Pul were a scum team.
Lets say for the sake of argument SC was lynched and flipped town would you be pushing for Pul over Pug the next day?

[farside22]

farside, I've tried repeatedly to get you to understand my reasons for not wanting Pug lynched, and I don't understand what there is not to get. So I'm not trying anymore. If you really think I'd bus both my scum-buddies in a row in a game where I can't NK, you're beyond help.

You pushed the idea of Pul/SC scum team over lynching Pug. A complete 180 from how you started the day.

[farside22]

You know I thought Reck hammered and looked and realized he didn't. Wow I'm out of it.
I think if CTD flips town would lynch Pul next. Ek is makes great points about SC and I think mine comes more from paranoid aspects of our last game together.

[farside22]

Okay just doing a breif look thru messiah and CTD


I didn't like how messiah flipped from this post to this post in regards to pushing SC to voting on SB
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 16#2018116
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 84#2018884

looking at who messiah imprinted for the first time when he did imprint
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 35#2014935
no reason why here either

This post from CTD bothers me in retrospect

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 65#2043865

I also notice reading CTD in isolation he did focas on SC/VMD scum more, but after VMD left he went after SC more.

Pug's position here:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 26#2070726

Please explain what happened with this line of thought for your sudden change to get SC lynched first:

I think Pug and SC are the last scum. The former in particular is incredibly obvious at this point. I'm surprised this isn't an open and shut case. If people really need further incentive to lynch him, I can whip up a more detailed case either tomorrow or Sunday. The SC case is after that (though my initial case against him already has a lot of stuff on him, I encourage you to reread it).

This post bothers me most

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 37#2162737

I will say there is many pro's I found from CTD. That once again leads me to

unvote

I will expand on this after CTD talks about those issues I have concern about.

[farside22]

arg, unvote?

zz

Wake me up on lynch

Well I think EK is helping me in case CTD isn't scum. I'm thinking more about Pul/Soc right now.

I think CTD is too focused on you to consider anything else.

[farside22]

true, true. I think part of me wants to just make sure we lynch correct and end this game.

Where is pul anyways? He's gone very quiet.

[farside22]

Alright since it seems there is no way I can see the town lossing this since I know I'm town and EK confirmed everything I said I feel good about hammering.
If CTD does flip town I'm looking at Pul tomorrow.

vote: CTD

[farside22]

*starts waving wildly*

I rarely hammer players so this is exciting for me if CTD was the last scum.

[farside22]

So, who goes first? SC? Pulindar?

Or reck.

I think I need a read of players left in this game.

EK what did you get last night for an imprint?

[farside22]

EK said some very strong things in favor of SC that is hard to ignore.
Anyways I got a vig ability too.
Yosarian2 in Mini 732

[farside22]

Reck: Why do you believe SC should be the lynch today?
EK: I have a feeling I know why but I would like your view on why reck is scum.

[farside22]

Because IMO it doesn't matter who we go with today because I'm fairly confident you and EK are town at this point. Though your sure-ness that I was town yesterday and subsequent flip flop on that today makes me hesitant.

CTD was sure SC was scum, and wanted him lynched. I made a deal with him. I'm going to keep it. I know that may seem like a scum gambit, but even if I'm wrong about SC, then I know I have Pul.

I have my reason's my views changed on you. Remember I felt only one thing made you look town and that was your unimprint of VMD.
Now that CTD flipped town I have come to realize 2 scum players were not on VMD's imprint wagon.

[farside22]

Have you ever got an impression where people just stopped caring about a game?
I swear.....mutters a curse word......would the last scum please claim now? I would like this game to end now.

[farside22]

Farside, we should have vigged last night. It would get this done sooner.

I thought about it for a brief moment but that voice in my head thinks god what if I'm completely hoodwinked by EK.
Damn my paranoid self. I just can't imagine scum trying to make another player look town.

*looks for relief to mod*
Iam I hate this game right now. I didnt' think it was possible but I'm very disappointed in the imprints given. I just needed to say this.

That said I need a read. And I'm promising myself I would read everything with a clear head on what I see.

[farside22]

I thought about this game while I lied in bed last night. Things I remembered. I decided to do a pro/con list for the 3 players I believe could be scum.
There is a reason I thought in my head SC could be town but I need to read everyone.
SC: I have one question for you. Why have you been really quiet these past few days as far as pushing for people like you did in the beginning?

[farside22]

Fair enough. So my thought was thus last night. Why would scum push players into seeing they were town. In a normal mafia game I would call it buddying but where as scum can not shot, them stating a player is town is just a lossing battle. Eventually all players start to say hey I think your town and here is why. They start to reconize things whether thru meta or cases.
Example is where I presented a case on SC day 2. He convinced EK this made me sound more town.
I would believe SC scum right now if there was one more scum avialable. Hence my question about his recent play where did he over play his hand came into question. Did he push the town together to the point of lossing this game? I can't see scum doing so in this game.
Now if someone want's to dispute this idea, please be my quest and point out the flaws in this theory.

[farside22]

Like I said SC it's a scum gambit moreso in this game with the fact that once you declare people town and gather the troups your pretty done come end game.
However your recent play makes me question you on this. Like I said about Pug I could see scum giving up and just lurkering to the point of knowing they are going to lose.

Pul: Why are you voting Reck after declaring him town for a few days?

[farside22]

I'm wondering about Pul's sudden flip on Reck and voting for him today after declaring him town.
Ah SC will I ever trust you again after breaking my heart?

I may be voting for Pul today. He's post without explanation leaves me cold.
I will say Reck's hammer votes with no reasoning most of the game gave me the biggest scum vibes ever.

And I know I promised a read thru again but I feel so tired with this game. It's really just 3 people to decide on and I want to just end this game and rant at the mod once it's over.

[farside22]

I feel frustrated with the imprints as I have received a doc, vengeful lyncher and a vig.
I honestly just feel like this turned into a vanilla nightless game with imprints there to fuck with us.
*serious Iam my rant will not be entertain once this ends*

I don't know if I have a destire to try for imprints any more. There has bee just one useful imprint in my book and that was the one that EK claimed having gotten info on my day 3 imprint and confirming this.

I see many things scum on Reck but till Pul answers my question with valid reasoning I'm not voting.

[farside22]

.
But if she does end up winning this game as scum I will say she totally deserves it... and I will also blame SC for convincing me she was town in the first place.

I feel the same way about you EK.

[farside22]

I'm not going to turn on farside.

Pul... that last post was confusing for me -- who do you think is scum? Can you give me an order of scummiest to least scummy?

Town - EK, Farside, Reck, SC - Scum

Why are you voting for Reck?

[farside22]

Maybe this will get pul's attention to my question better.

vote: Pul

WHY DID YOU VOTE RECK AFTER CALLING HIM TOWN ALL THE PAST FEW DAYS SINCE YOU REPLACED AND WHY ARE YOU NOT VOTING SC BASED ON YOUR CURRENTS STANDS IN THE GAME?

[farside22]

mmmmm
I need to think. I'm getting too much of this kumbya stuff from everyone it seems.
I don't really like Pul's answer to the question. Don't ask me why just feeling.

[farside22]

What I don't understand, is why are you even hesitating if you're sure about elvis?

Guess I want this to be the last day I deal with this game.

Meh

unvote:
vote: Reck

[farside22]

vote: Pul

imprint: EK and farside

[farside22]

Sorry my head is not really here today. Some RL stuff kind of hit me. I'm posting this in all my games that need attention.

[farside22]

Vote SC

Imprint Farside

lol

I was telling you his sudden swift was highly questionable. Should have pushed it more but in the end it shouldn't matter.

[farside22]

well, I'm getting seirously antsy.

zz

I thought maybe we could imprint farside and elvis until they get a vig, then they can vig whoever they want when they do get it and that way we'll get a 3 man lylo.

Thoughts?

Do a no lynch and if one of us gets a vig shot?

I think both myself and EK can agree that Pul is are main suspect..........thinking.

[farside22]

Sorry, didn't explain that so well.


Assume elvis or farside is scum:
At the moment, lynch SC and scum shoots town at night, that's the end of the game

imprint and no lynch, then whoever gets vig shoots SC at night. Then tomorrow it's 3 man lylo between elvis, farside and Pul.

I personally feel on everything I thought about as for as SC's game play that Pul is scum. I'm serious that if I was a vig I would just shot him and hope the game ends there.
If one of EK/SC is scum I'm going to literally scream especially after everything said on day one.

[farside22]

I don't get the no-lynch thoughts.

If we want Pul dead we don't need a vig to do it. We only need to lynch.

I think SC is going on the theory one of you or myself could be scum and now that we are imprinted if one is scum we could shot for the win.

However in my view we already stated that we both think the other is town.
I'm not sure what would change if I were to shot over lynch but I'm hopping the mod will give one good ability that may help in the game.

unvote:
vote: No lynch

Maybe we will be lucky and get info instead of an imprint just meant for killing.

[farside22]

and yeah, it's just because there's no down side. I don't think it'll change much, but you know, no reason not to.

are you guys both imprinted? If so I'll no lynch hammer.

I counted the imprints and I see we are both imprinted but wait for mod to verify before hammering.

[farside22]

Well I had VMD pegged day 1 with her reaction to what the buttonman said early in the game. I got paranoid with those imprints which were the most frustrating thing in the game.
When both Reck and buttonman talking about viging I'm thinking here scum trying to find a way to kill a town. Boy was I wrong there.
I was under the impression one of SC/EK was town as town buddying that early for what seemed to me more WIFOM felt more like scum buddying a townie.
EK's attack against SB didn't make me feel good about her.
CTD's play to immediately attack SC before lynching Pug gave me all sorts of scum vibes that was hard to look past someone trying to set up a mislynch.
I figured after we got to a certain point that either Reck or Pul were scum. No way would SC paint himself into a corner like that as scum.

Iam: I really felt like the imprints were the most useless thing for the town. I don't know if that was on purpose or what. But to have almost every imprint I received this game to be a killing role except on day 1 made me want to just give up.

[farside22]

EK: I'm hurt you thought I was scum there.

Nah I had my paranoid moments thinking EK was lying scum in regards to her imprints and thinking maybe she learned to improve her scum play after all that time.
I'm glad to be wrong about SC. I knew after reading all those points that EK made in regards to SC and his play there was no way either one of SC or EK was mafia.
yeah, yeah took me long enough but mafia does make you paranoid.

SC: I don't know if I will ever be able to trust you in so far that if we played another game I would be watching you carefully but I know you would not put yourself in a corner.

That picture EK just posted made me all over again.